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(Talking Points Memo)   President Romero on his first debate with Romney: "I was too polite"   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 246
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2002 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Oct 2012 at 8:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-10 09:32:25 PM

Markoff_Cheney: t's not over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Perl Harbor?

Germans?


welcome to the internet.


Sigh, you DO realize that is actually the line from the movie, right? Or did you just get owned?
 
2012-10-10 09:33:03 PM

radioshack: randomjsa: No, you weren't 'too polite', you had to actually stand on and defend your record without a bunch of platitudes and you had to deal with conservative ideas, something that will always confound liberals as they have never been able to do that very well.

This. They live in an echo chamber. "Rmoney lied!!" never probably once reading all the lies Obama spewed.


So Romney didn't lie during the debate?
 
2012-10-10 09:33:24 PM

shotglasss: Obama is going to go on the strategy of lying. Foreign affairs will be discussed, and the testimony we heard today from the State Dept. is going to be devastating to him when Romney asks why the Libyan ambassador was refused security he requested that might have saved his (and others') life. Obama's backed into a corner and the debate isn't until next week.


You really think they're going to resort to the Libya thing? That's just sad.
 
2012-10-10 09:34:54 PM
Good, fine, whatever.
Now can we move on from making excuses for farks sake?

/You didn't think the guy would be gunning for you the second he got a podium in the same room?
/Well now you know. Don't halfass the job next time you meet him.
 
2012-10-10 09:35:23 PM

The Great EZE: I can't wait to read the books written about this administration in 5-10 years. He was told not long after his inauguration that the people he was supposed to "cooperate" with want nothing less than to see him fail, the fate of the citizens be damned. An unprecedented string of obstructionism followed and now, come reelection time, the same people are coming back to say he's the bad guy.

And the voters are this close to letting them win. The entire story would make for fascinating reading/filming were it not still in progress.


There's a percentage of the country that are just evil, rightist filth through and through, and some of them control the vast majority of media outlets. We swim in a sea of right-wing propaganda daily. The Democrats don't present a credible alternative because they don't offer any real solutions other than "what the evil pieces of shiat said, but, y'know, not quite so evil".

It's no mystery why this is happening.
 
2012-10-10 09:36:30 PM

FlashHarry: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

to be fair, this.


Seconded.
 
2012-10-10 09:36:58 PM

Mrtraveler01:
So Romney didn't lie during the debate?


Since when is it a lie to believe something completely inaccurate and then try and convince the rest of the nation of the same thing?
If you're going to use that as your definition then you might as well convince the church of lying, too.
 
2012-10-10 09:39:42 PM
Yeah, it was "polite" -- not stupid, retarded or completely intellectually outmatched -- but "polite"

/dream on
 
2012-10-10 09:40:26 PM
Too polite? Excuse while I go puke. You keep farking that chicken boy-bots. I'll be right back.
 
2012-10-10 09:40:43 PM

MSFT: Mrtraveler01:
So Romney didn't lie during the debate?

Since when is it a lie to believe something completely inaccurate and then try and convince the rest of the nation of the same thing?
If you're going to use that as your definition then you might as well convince the church of lying, too.


What are you talking about? How about taking one position before the debate, then taking the opposite position during the debate? That has nothing to do with "believing" anything. It's a policy thing.
 
2012-10-10 09:40:59 PM

The Great EZE: I can't wait to read the books written about this administration in 5-10 years. He was told not long after his inauguration that the people he was supposed to "cooperate" with want nothing less than to see him fail, the fate of the citizens be damned. An unprecedented string of obstructionism followed and now, come reelection time, the same people are coming back to say he's the bad guy.


And yet, despite that, in an environment where you're basically using toothpaste where you need cement, he still got the stimulus, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, and the ACA done. It's impressive, in a lot of ways.

And yet at the same time depressing, because, well, you know, America.
 
2012-10-10 09:43:04 PM

Tarl3k: Markoff_Cheney: t's not over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Perl Harbor?

Germans?


welcome to the internet.

Sigh, you DO realize that is actually the line from the movie, right? Or did you just get owned?


i may concede that. i have shamed my family.
 
2012-10-10 09:43:38 PM

mahuika: FlashHarry: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

to be fair, this.

Also, actual independent voters who are (somehow) still undecided have said the president sometimes comes off as condescending and professorial, so he may have been overcompensating for that.


Who are these morons, and can we shoot them? If the choice is having a President who talks to me like I'm stupid, or a President who talks to me like I'm a college-educated adult (which I am), who would honestly choose the former?
 
2012-10-10 09:46:06 PM

enik: completely intellectually outmatched


You should really go back and watch the debate sober.
 
2012-10-10 09:46:12 PM

Coco LaFemme: If the choice is having a President who talks to me like I'm stupid, or a President who talks to me like I'm a college-educated adult (which I am), who would honestly choose the former?


Someone who is keenly aware in the pit of their soul that they aren't smart.
 
2012-10-10 09:47:15 PM

The Great EZE: I can't wait to read the books written about this administration in 5-10 years. He was told not long after his inauguration that the people he was supposed to "cooperate" with want nothing less than to see him fail, the fate of the citizens be damned. An unprecedented string of obstructionism followed and now, come reelection time, the same people are coming back to say he's the bad guy.

And the voters are this close to letting them win. The entire story would make for fascinating reading/filming were it not still in progress.


It's actually kind of sad watching Obama speeches from 2008. With all of his "there's no red America or blue America just the United States of America" and "when we all work together" and whatnot, he actually sounds really naive. He had such high hopes but they were dashed on the shores of Washington realities. Remember how taken aback he was when McCain sent him that nasty, scathing letter about lobbying reform when he was a newly-elected freshman Senator? He should have known then that Washington was not the kind of town for honest to goodness nice people. If he loses re-election, history will teach us nothing more than DC chewed him up and spat him out.
 
2012-10-10 09:47:23 PM

enik: not stupid, retarded or completely intellectually outmatched


Funny'd

This is a guy who won the debate because the other guy was on Ambien.

It sure as hell wasn't because of his incredibly vague policies.
 
2012-10-10 09:47:36 PM

Coco LaFemme: mahuika: FlashHarry: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

to be fair, this.

Also, actual independent voters who are (somehow) still undecided have said the president sometimes comes off as condescending and professorial, so he may have been overcompensating for that.

Who are these morons, and can we shoot them? If the choice is having a President who talks to me like I'm stupid, or a President who talks to me like I'm a college-educated adult (which I am), who would honestly choose the former?


I have a theory about this. These "independent" voters are also being called (politely) "low information" voters. Essentially, these people haven't been following the campaigns like probably most of the people that follow the Politics tab.

So their first view of Romney is this somewhat moderate "debate Romney" and this guy looks pretty good. He's got some ideas, he's energized, etc.

So these low information voters are getting sold something that isn't what it seems. And they don't know any better.
 
2012-10-10 09:48:42 PM

AeAe: MSFT: Mrtraveler01:
So Romney didn't lie during the debate?

Since when is it a lie to believe something completely inaccurate and then try and convince the rest of the nation of the same thing?
If you're going to use that as your definition then you might as well convince the church of lying, too.

What are you talking about? How about taking one position before the debate, then taking the opposite position during the debate? That has nothing to do with "believing" anything. It's a policy thing.


And my post was a "joke" thing.
 
2012-10-10 09:48:55 PM

MSFT: Mrtraveler01:
So Romney didn't lie during the debate?

Since when is it a lie to believe something completely inaccurate and then try and convince the rest of the nation of the same thing?
If you're going to use that as your definition then you might as well convince the church of lying, too.


Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Romney believes everything he says. That means that when he says things that are direct contradictions of things he's previously said, sometimes minutes earlier, that he believes both things. You do realize that would mean he's schizophrenic, right? So, which do you think would be better as a president, someone who lies constantly or someone who wholly and truly believes contradictory things from one minute to the next?
 
2012-10-10 09:49:44 PM

Shaggy_C: Holocaust Agnostic: how much more responsibility can he take then to say that he farked up and how?

It's not a lack of responsiblity. He is refusing to give Romney credit for beating him. It's just like the Bin Laden raid "I, I, I". Could he be any more self-absorbed? Instead of "I was too nice" how about he just admit Romney is the winner? Perhaps he could even suspend his campaign and step down from the presidency. That might make Republicans happy.


Yeah, people are really self-absorbed when they take fault. It's like the other day, this guy stepped on my toes and was like "I'm sorry! I wasn't watching my step!" and I told that self-absorbed libby-lib communist, "It's not all about you, asshole!" And then I punched him.
 
2012-10-10 09:50:20 PM
I remember how I was blasted on here for saying that this election wasn't going to be a landslide win for Obama.

friggin hilarious.
 
2012-10-10 09:51:35 PM

Teufelaffe: MSFT: Mrtraveler01:
So Romney didn't lie during the debate?

Since when is it a lie to believe something completely inaccurate and then try and convince the rest of the nation of the same thing?
If you're going to use that as your definition then you might as well convince the church of lying, too.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Romney believes everything he says. That means that when he says things that are direct contradictions of things he's previously said, sometimes minutes earlier, that he believes both things. You do realize that would mean he's schizophrenic, right? So, which do you think would be better as a president, someone who lies constantly or someone who wholly and truly believes contradictory things from one minute to the next?


Since both traits apply to Romney,is there a third option?
 
2012-10-10 09:51:46 PM

FlashHarry: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

to be fair, this.


Nah, it means he can't go off script and debate ad-hoc.
 
2012-10-10 09:52:07 PM

Teufelaffe: So, which do you think would be better as a president, someone who lies constantly or someone who wholly and truly believes contradictory things from one minute to the next?


You can't just make this a contest between one figurative man and one figurative woman, it's just not that simple.
 
2012-10-10 09:55:30 PM

Nabb1: Gary


You know, I am among those who wants to support Gary, but cannot. I don't want R$ anywhere near the White House. Unlike the usual nutbags the Libertarians nominate, Gary is actually someone even a lib can get behind, because he is sane and honest.
 
2012-10-10 09:55:31 PM

dumbobruni: I remember how I was blasted on here for saying that this election wasn't going to be a landslide win for Obama.

friggin hilarious.


I know, the dude is down to the low 70% range. He'll probably drop down into the mid-60's once they catch him raping a white woman on top of a dead child.
 
2012-10-10 09:56:19 PM

Nabb1: FlashHarry: Nabb1: "I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!"

see... you guys never admit fault...

Well "my guy" is running on a third party ticket and wasn't invited to the corporate-sponsored, meticulously rehearsed talking point parroting, dog and pony show that passes for a "debate" these days.


Who is your "guy", Gary Johnson or Rocky Anderson?
 
2012-10-10 09:56:29 PM

BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.


he knew that going in there, or at least he should have known.

many conservatives figured that out during the primary, but were split as to what their ideal candidate was.
 
2012-10-10 09:56:41 PM

Shaggy_C: The Great EZE: I can't wait to read the books written about this administration in 5-10 years. He was told not long after his inauguration that the people he was supposed to "cooperate" with want nothing less than to see him fail, the fate of the citizens be damned. An unprecedented string of obstructionism followed and now, come reelection time, the same people are coming back to say he's the bad guy.

And the voters are this close to letting them win. The entire story would make for fascinating reading/filming were it not still in progress.

It's actually kind of sad watching Obama speeches from 2008. With all of his "there's no red America or blue America just the United States of America" and "when we all work together" and whatnot, he actually sounds really naive. He had such high hopes but they were dashed on the shores of Washington realities. Remember how taken aback he was when McCain sent him that nasty, scathing letter about lobbying reform when he was a newly-elected freshman Senator? He should have known then that Washington was not the kind of town for honest to goodness nice people. If he loses re-election, history will teach us nothing more than DC chewed him up and spat him out.


TalenLee: And yet, despite that, in an environment where you're basically using toothpaste where you need cement, he still got the stimulus, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, and the ACA done. It's impressive, in a lot of ways.

And yet at the same time depressing, because, well, you know, America.


They're trying to Carter him but know full well they don't have as hospitable an environment for it as they did in 1980.

If it were fiction you'd know how this ends. He approaches the final debate and completely abandons his advisors. He'd go off-script in an impassioned sweaty near-filibuster, not letting Romney get a word in edgewise. Then, on the night before the election, Joe Biden has a "Now imagine she's white" moment in the last stump speech and the President wins the ultimate swing county in the ultimate swing state by 10 votes.

Of course, this isn't fiction so who knows WTF will happen.

/Wake the fark up, Florida
//You too, Colorado
///I've got my eye on you too, Ohio
 
2012-10-10 09:57:03 PM

shower_in_my_socks: He was. He gives the average American too much credit, as if without his help everyone would be able to see what a lying, pandering sack of shiat Romney is. They don't see it, Mr. President. You have to call him out on it. Bring the pain in the remaining debates, and the White House is yours for another 4 years.


I wonder if he was up on the stage thinking "Wow, I can't believe how well this is going - everything he says is either an obvious and outrageous lie or a complete reversal of his positions the last few months. Moderates will see that he's full of shiat and his base will crucify him for ditching the positions he panders to them with. I'll just let him keep talking." then the next day he turned on the news to see how it went and said "Doh! I forgot most people have shiat for brains."
 
2012-10-10 09:58:10 PM

MSFT: dumbobruni: I remember how I was blasted on here for saying that this election wasn't going to be a landslide win for Obama.

friggin hilarious.

I know, the dude is down to the low 70% range. He'll probably drop down into the mid-60's once they catch him raping a white woman on top of a dead child.


probability isn't the same as the electoral/popular vote outcome. but thanks for playing.
 
2012-10-10 10:06:47 PM

dumbobruni: MSFT: dumbobruni: I remember how I was blasted on here for saying that this election wasn't going to be a landslide win for Obama.

friggin hilarious.

I know, the dude is down to the low 70% range. He'll probably drop down into the mid-60's once they catch him raping a white woman on top of a dead child.

probability isn't the same as the electoral/popular vote outcome. but thanks for playing.


Reagan beat Carter with 51% of the popular vote.
Would you say that was a landslide?

p.s.
I like this game
 
2012-10-10 10:06:58 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: shower_in_my_socks: He was. He gives the average American too much credit, as if without his help everyone would be able to see what a lying, pandering sack of shiat Romney is. They don't see it, Mr. President. You have to call him out on it. Bring the pain in the remaining debates, and the White House is yours for another 4 years.

I wonder if he was up on the stage thinking "Wow, I can't believe how well this is going - everything he says is either an obvious and outrageous lie or a complete reversal of his positions the last few months. Moderates will see that he's full of shiat and his base will crucify him for ditching the positions he panders to them with. I'll just let him keep talking." then the next day he turned on the news to see how it went and said "Doh! I forgot most people have shiat for brains."


Not sure about Obama, but that's sure as hell what I was thinking.

Then I read the fark debate thread.
 
2012-10-10 10:10:52 PM

FlashHarry: ya think?


He expected an actual debate, and got a two-ring circus managed by a half-deaf ringmaster, cheered by the type of folks that would cheer because a quarterback was knocked unconscious on the field.

Next debate, Romney's getting an ass-whupping. Bet on it.
 
2012-10-10 10:15:55 PM

MSFT: dumbobruni: MSFT: dumbobruni: I remember how I was blasted on here for saying that this election wasn't going to be a landslide win for Obama.

friggin hilarious.

I know, the dude is down to the low 70% range. He'll probably drop down into the mid-60's once they catch him raping a white woman on top of a dead child.

probability isn't the same as the electoral/popular vote outcome. but thanks for playing.

Reagan beat Carter with 51% of the popular vote.
Would you say that was a landslide?

p.s.
I like this game


in electoral votes, yes.

I was blasted for suggesting that the EV split would be like Bush/Kerry.

in case you haven't noticed, Nate Silver handed Florida to Romney, and Colorado is slipping away (and is Romney's in the "Now Cast" scenario).
 
2012-10-10 10:17:03 PM

Nabb1: Well "my guy" is running on a third party ticket and wasn't invited to the corporate-sponsored, meticulously rehearsed talking point parroting, dog and pony show that passes for a "debate" these days.


Sorry, but the debates are for serious candidates that actually have a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected. Third party candidates that only exist for people to throw away their votes in some meaningless protest gesture that can at most be a spoiler that can be self defeating.

Remember 2000? Left-wing voters for Nader took away votes for Gore, so we got Bush. Thus, voting for the far-left candidate got us a far right candidate. The way our electoral system is set up, you would be better off to flush your ballot down the toilet than to vote for a third party candidate.

/Voted for a third party candidate in 2000
//Never Again
 
2012-10-10 10:22:33 PM
Yeah, Obama, maybe you can actually show up for the next one. Supposedly debates don't change anything but the numbers on 538 aren't all that pretty.
 
2012-10-10 10:24:32 PM

dumbobruni: MSFT: dumbobruni: MSFT: dumbobruni: I remember how I was blasted on here for saying that this election wasn't going to be a landslide win for Obama.

friggin hilarious.

I know, the dude is down to the low 70% range. He'll probably drop down into the mid-60's once they catch him raping a white woman on top of a dead child.

probability isn't the same as the electoral/popular vote outcome. but thanks for playing.

Reagan beat Carter with 51% of the popular vote.
Would you say that was a landslide?

p.s.
I like this game

in electoral votes, yes.

I was blasted for suggesting that the EV split would be like Bush/Kerry.

in case you haven't noticed, Nate Silver handed Florida to Romney, and Colorado is slipping away (and is Romney's in the "Now Cast" scenario).


In case you haven't noticed they postponed the election until early November. According to the LAMEstream media last weeks election isn't even going to count!
 
2012-10-10 10:25:18 PM

The Great EZE: Bennie Crabtree: TalenLee: BunkoSquad: People have been slagging the President all week, but in his defense, it's hard to prepare for a debate against someone who believes in nothing and who will say literally any goddamn thing he can think of to sound impressive.

Obama's presidential history has been a fascinating mirror of racism in America. It's like by committing one vaguely unracist act - by electing a non-white - the American culture has decided to embrace its other racist wing. They bullied this black man into working ridiculously hard to achieve his goals; they roadblock his progress then berate him for performing badly; they made his political environment that he has to be above even the suspicion of reproach (Sherrod) and they'll berate him for that anyway; they bully him into showing his farking papers, and now the climate is such that they will wave their privilege in his face and bellow and cow and he dare not raise his voice, because he knows the second he does, he will be judged more harshly than them. They'll be able to really cap it off if they somehow prevent him from voting come November.

This is interesting. Is there a newsletter I can read, perhaps subscribe to, for more information? I think I've read a good article about this someplace.

I can't wait to read the books written about this administration in 5-10 years. He was told not long after his inauguration that the people he was supposed to "cooperate" with want nothing less than to see him fail, the fate of the citizens be damned. An unprecedented string of obstructionism followed and now, come reelection time, the same people are coming back to say he's the bad guy.

And the voters are this close to letting them win. The entire story would make for fascinating reading/filming were it not still in progress.


I don't think it would be a fascinating story at all, especially since its been basically, you know, the same goddamn story we've had for 200 years. You act as if this hasn't been played out before. OMG politics are being played!!
 
2012-10-10 10:31:36 PM
No, Mr. President, you pretty much showed all the low-information voters that the GOP was right: you can't speak without a teleprompter.

/even though everyone else knows that's not true.
 
2012-10-10 10:32:44 PM

theorellior: Yeah, Obama, maybe you can actually show up for the next one.


Reagan got beat like a rented mule in his first debate with Mondale. Kerry mopped the floor with Bush in their first debate.
 
2012-10-10 10:34:25 PM
BTW the idea that Romney won shows a fundamental problem with the media and others, Romney offered no specifics and lied through his teeth yet somehow that shouldn't mean he lost. By any objective measure Romney had nothing.
 
2012-10-10 10:35:03 PM
Nothing wrong with being polite, eh.
 
2012-10-10 10:35:33 PM

radioshack: I don't think it would be a fascinating story at all, especially since its been basically, you know, the same goddamn story we've had for 200 years. You act as if this hasn't been played out before. OMG politics are being played!!


This isn't some hicktown congressional race where the locals are just starting to get enlightened and don't know how to handle it. And in all the dramatic stories from presidential elections in he past this one certainly hasn't been seen before--at least not in a couple of generations and certainly not with all the undertones of this one.

That's why I do nothing but scoff when people try to compare Obama and Clinton. "Hey, Republicans didn't like Clinton but they still worked with him!" Yeah, well there were certain things about Clinton that made him more palatable to cooperate with, and I don't mean his accent. And the "impeachment" was as big a joke as the act that inspired it.

If you don't think the past four years haven't been extraordinary I don't know what to say.

/Besides, in the history of the written word there have only been about a handful of different dramatic stories told. It's just perspective and context that changes.
 
2012-10-10 10:41:14 PM
Just a random thought, but since Bush bailed out Wall Street doesn't that make all of those people welfare queens?

I wonder if they're ashamed of suckling on the government teat for so much cash without providing any value in return.....

Hey, what do you think, Dumbobruni?
 
2012-10-10 10:51:27 PM

Karne: tenpoundsofcheese: FlashHarry: he has a country to run and may be distracted by real problems. no, he's admitting fault.

If he thought his top job was running the country, then maybe he could have met with the world leaders at the UN rather than going on The View and lying on Letterman about the 9/11 attack on the embassy.
It isn't as if there are troubles in the Mideast or anything.

Are you just cutting and pasting prior posts now? You get paid 50 cents for every reply on this site? I've made you over a dollar already today...sigh.


The thing I like is the implicit endorsement of the UN.
 
2012-10-10 10:54:24 PM
Obama was probably too stunned to respond much. This was probably the first time in his Presidency that anyone called him out on his shat and he didn't know how to take it, the narcissic fool.
 
2012-10-10 10:55:03 PM

MSFT: Just a random thought, but since Bush bailed out Wall Street doesn't that make all of those people welfare queens?

I wonder if they're ashamed of suckling on the government teat for so much cash without providing any value in return.....

Hey, what do you think, Dumbobruni?


i'm registered with the Working Families Party. what do you think my view is?
 
2012-10-10 10:57:41 PM
Some times I think I'm too polite to some people on Fark.

Seriously though, he called Bush unpatriotic, said Republicans didn't care about brown people in New Orleans, that Republicans don't want clean air or water, etc etc. So when he completely fails to land a punch on Romney... it's because he's too polite.

Hey, he sells what his audience likes to buy. That's how business works.
 
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