If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(USA Today)   "The evidence shows beyond any doubt that the US Postal Service ... ran the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful ... program ... ever seen." If only they were talking about the mail   (usatoday.com) divider line 160
    More: Sad, U.S. Postal Service, George Hincapie, United States Anti-Doping Agency, Floyd Landis, International Cycling Union, international federation, World Anti-Doping Agency, Tour de France  
•       •       •

3742 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Oct 2012 at 4:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



160 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-10-10 03:09:55 PM
Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.

As for this guy, not that I really care, but I'm curious as to how the USADA has the authority to strip him of titles for an event in another country.
 
2012-10-10 03:17:48 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.

 
2012-10-10 03:18:53 PM
Im reading the 200 page reasoned decision right now. Its incredibly detailed going through the allegations in chronological order with lots of backing testimony. In some regards they were so blatant about their doping practices I think Lance got away with it through sheer hubris to this point.
 
2012-10-10 03:25:51 PM
The real joke about all this is that the guys who would stand to get Lance's stripped Tour de France wins are all embroiled in their own doping scandals.
 
2012-10-10 03:45:35 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.


I'm glad you got in here Weeners this.
 
2012-10-10 03:49:43 PM
Sounds like they had a ball with that investigation
 
2012-10-10 04:15:06 PM
The mail is goddamn awesome.
 
2012-10-10 04:27:57 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.

As for this guy, not that I really care, but I'm curious as to how the USADA has the authority to strip him of titles for an event in another country.


Because national anti-doing authorities agreed to uphold each others' decisions in all sports covered by WADA.
 
2012-10-10 04:39:12 PM

DrySocket: In some regards they were so blatant about their doping practices I think Lance got away with it through sheer hubris to this point.


The guy definitely has balls.
 
2012-10-10 04:40:38 PM
It would be a shorter list of cyclists who have not doped.
 
2012-10-10 04:44:41 PM
If a white man wins an endurance competition, chances are he cheated.
 
2012-10-10 04:46:25 PM
Wow, I'm only on like page 50 and it just keeps getting juicier. I have been a cyclist for over 30 years, and I knew about doping long before Armstrong. I always knew he was a fraud because what he did was impossible without some kind of enhancement. The fanbois tend to forget that he sucked at stage racing until his "miracle" tour. DopeStrong and LieStrong about it.
Also, direct link to PDF here:

href="http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/ReasonedDecision.pdf"
 
2012-10-10 04:46:25 PM

malaktaus: DrySocket: In some regards they were so blatant about their doping practices I think Lance got away with it through sheer hubris to this point.

The guy definitely has balls.


FTFY
 
2012-10-10 04:47:14 PM

Nabb1: The real joke about all this is that the guys who would stand to get Lance's stripped Tour de France wins are all embroiled in their own doping scandals.


No, the real joke will be Lance's defenders who will still claim that he was the only cyclist in the universe who wasn't doping.
 
2012-10-10 04:47:45 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.


And I will start caring that Congress is trying to kill them off when they stop delivering twenty pounds of garbage to my house every week. We should put the farkers in prison with the email spammers.
 
2012-10-10 04:49:55 PM
and Lance is still claiming he is innocent, even today-what an ass!
i don't feel bad for Hincapie, Levi- and glad Banesto and now Movistar ran a great European cycling team since the 1980s, something we can be proud of winning 5 straight tours without the use of blood transfusions!
 
2012-10-10 04:51:30 PM
Oh, and my headline was MUCH more funnier: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.
 
2012-10-10 04:54:14 PM

expobill: and Lance is still claiming he is innocent, even today-what an ass!


I assume he stopped contesting the matter so that it would never been definitively proved against him... so he could deny it publicly as much as he wants, because he never mounted a defense.
 
2012-10-10 04:56:42 PM
Lance will never admit he doped. His ego is too big.
 
2012-10-10 04:59:07 PM

Account Created To Respond To Your Idiocy: and I knew about doping long before Armstrong. I always knew he was a fraud....

Me too, just his mannerism and his arrogance in the peloton before those TDF "wins" just rubbed alot of fans the wrong way- even Bugno disliked him.
 
2012-10-10 05:08:12 PM

expobill: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.


No i think there is something else going on. But kudos to you for actually posting what your headline was going to be rather than just saying its better.
 
2012-10-10 05:08:23 PM
Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?
 
2012-10-10 05:10:52 PM
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-10 05:11:44 PM

expobill: Oh, and my headline was MUCH more funnier: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.


I disagree, but to each his own.
 
2012-10-10 05:12:56 PM

whistleridge: Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?


Miguel Indurain won 5 straight TDF, 2 giros and and handful of classics with his skill, great team and suffering from seasonal allergies during the spring months for 20 years and to see someone like Lance cheat his way to the podium only in july, has to feel some comfort today.
/i do!
 
2012-10-10 05:19:17 PM

expobill: Miguel Indurain won 5 straight TDF, 2 giros and and handful of classics with his skill, great team and suffering from seasonal allergies during the spring months for 20 years and to see someone like Lance cheat his way to the podium only in july, has to feel some comfort today.
/i do!


Yes, yes...and Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs, blah, blah.

That was then. This is now. Lance didn't race against Indurain, Merck, LeMond, et al. He raced against a field that was probably at least 50% doping, and whose top 50 riders were all but surely all doping.

And so I ask: what is the point? The 'purity' of the sport? Riders are still doping today. We don't actually *know* they weren't doping against Indurain, just that they weren't caught and that the odds are less in favor of it.

Why act all pure and virginal? Just let them keep the damn titles, put an asterisk by their names, and move on with life.
 
2012-10-10 05:22:33 PM

whistleridge: Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?


I use to throw (shot put) competitively so I can only somewhat relate in the fact that it really sucks and makes you feel awful. Every record from the 80s and 90s that still stands just reminds you that you can't be the best ever because of what's happened before. I would prefer to have mandatory testing a week or so before a major competition due to it because I knew:
A. I was completely clean.
B. Other people weren't. (one person flat out bragged about it.)

Blood doping, and this "team" sport are a completely different beast though
 
2012-10-10 05:30:49 PM

expobill: Oh, and my headline was MUCH more funnier: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.


Yours WAS better, but you were disqualified for taking performance enhancing substances.
 
2012-10-10 05:31:26 PM

whistleridge: hat was then. This is now. Lance didn't race against Indurain,


yes Lance did, if you call that racing.....Mig destroyed him!
 
2012-10-10 05:32:50 PM

cgraves67: expobill: Oh, and my headline was MUCH more funnier: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.

Yours WAS better, but you were disqualified for taking performance enhancing substances.


im clean, i refused a pharm in 1998 to cure allergies because that was laced with steroids!
 
2012-10-10 05:35:23 PM
We just need a sport where you can dope as much as you want and have them go buck wild.
 
2012-10-10 05:37:07 PM

Foxxinnia: We just need a sport where you can dope as much as you want and have them go buck wild.


wrestling?
 
2012-10-10 05:37:17 PM
www.monorailmike.com 

/usps is damn solid as a service.
 
2012-10-10 05:41:47 PM

whistleridge:
And so I ask: what is the point? The 'purity' of the sport? Riders are still doping today. We don't actually *know* they weren't doping against Indurain, just that they weren't caught and that the odds are less in favor of it.

Why act all pure and virginal? Just let them keep the damn titles, put an asterisk by their names, and move on with life.


the sport needed to cleanse itself after the festina debacle in 1998 were they tossed out the team during the TDF- the UCI made a mistake by not punishing lance during his *wins and punished every winner since then, Contador and Valverde never should have received any suspensions compared to what Lance got away with- that is why "we" were very upset, but little relaxed today!
 
2012-10-10 05:42:00 PM
Who farking cares, so a doper beat a bunch of other dopers. Since everyone was doping, doesn't it cancel out the competitive advantage?
 
2012-10-10 05:45:46 PM

there their theyre: Who farking cares, so a doper beat a bunch of other dopers. Since everyone was doping, doesn't it cancel out the competitive advantage?


It's a race between medical theories. Lance's technology was superior, so, his medical team won a lot of Tours.
 
2012-10-10 05:46:01 PM

thecpt: whistleridge: Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?

I use to throw (shot put) competitively so I can only somewhat relate in the fact that it really sucks and makes you feel awful. Every record from the 80s and 90s that still stands just reminds you that you can't be the best ever because of what's happened before. I would prefer to have mandatory testing a week or so before a major competition due to it because I knew:
A. I was completely clean.
B. Other people weren't. (one person flat out bragged about it.)

Blood doping, and this "team" sport are a completely different beast though


Yeah, I'm not a Lance apologist by any stretch. More just sick of hearing this sort of thing from every angle. First it was baseball, then it was cycling...I would be utterly unsurprised if it turns out ten years from now that Michael Phelps was doping, or Peyton Manning, or whomever. And I DO feel for the clean athletes. But it's kind of like the absurd fallacy that football players at major Div I schools are 'amateurs': when the problem reaches that sort of level of penetration, you either have to do a very very very thorough housecleaning, or rebuild the entire model from the ground up. And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.
 
2012-10-10 05:54:05 PM

whistleridge: t And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.


the problem with doping in sports was too many kids were dying after injecting steroids, so the US Senate stepped in and had these hearing which served it's purpose, kids stopped dying!

Many clean cyclist have won major races in the past and present- i'm happy!
 
2012-10-10 05:54:30 PM
I'm sure Lance's lawyers were not working for free. So it was either quit now or go broke.
 
2012-10-10 05:57:03 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.


Well that and being unable to close facilities in any bumble fark little town, because granny is a afraid that tiny speck of a shiathole will no longer be listed on maps. Or raise rates to cover the actual cost of doing business. Or reduce staff by anything other then attrition and/or retirement.
 
2012-10-10 05:58:24 PM

whistleridge: thecpt: whistleridge: Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?

I use to throw (shot put) competitively so I can only somewhat relate in the fact that it really sucks and makes you feel awful. Every record from the 80s and 90s that still stands just reminds you that you can't be the best ever because of what's happened before. I would prefer to have mandatory testing a week or so before a major competition due to it because I knew:
A. I was completely clean.
B. Other people weren't. (one person flat out bragged about it.)

Blood doping, and this "team" sport are a completely different beast though

Yeah, I'm not a Lance apologist by any stretch. More just sick of hearing this sort of thing from every angle. First it was baseball, then it was cycling...I would be utterly unsurprised if it turns out ten years from now that Michael Phelps was doping, or Peyton Manning, or whomever. And I DO feel for the clean athletes. But it's kind of like the absurd fallacy that football players at major Div I schools are 'amateurs': when the problem reaches that sort of level of penetration, you either have to do a very very very thorough housecleaning, or rebuild the entire model from the ground up. And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.


No. Manadatory drug testing before every professional game, every college game, and if you fail even once lifetime ban.
 
2012-10-10 05:58:28 PM

whistleridge: Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery?


Certainly not. What does jealousy have to do with it anyway? Why should we let the guy who gained the most get off scot free when everyone else got busted? He's a bully who blackballed anyone who dared question him and destroyed lives and sued into oblivion anyone who called him on his bullshiat. fark Lance Armstrong. Dude wouldn't waste his piss on a flaming cancer patient without a camera running or a PR flack to document his 'altruism'.

/F-R-A-U-D
 
2012-10-10 05:59:09 PM

Slaves2Darkness: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.


Well that and being unable to close facilities in any bumble fark little town, because granny is a afraid that tiny speck of a shiathole will no longer be listed on maps. Or raise rates to cover the actual cost of doing business. Or reduce staff by anything other then attrition and/or retirement.


stick to the topic, LANCE and his pousse CHEATED!
 
2012-10-10 06:00:07 PM
They make boxing sound respectable.
 
2012-10-10 06:02:31 PM

expobill: whistleridge: t And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.

the problem with doping in sports was too many kids were dying after injecting steroids, so the US Senate stepped in and had these hearing which served it's purpose, kids stopped dying!

Many clean cyclist have won major races in the past and present- i'm happy!


It's one of the few times "Think of the CHILDREN!!!" is not overprotective hand wringing. If professionals are allowed to overtly embrace the use of performance enhancers, then college and high school athletes will be all over it. An adult making a semi-informed decision to trade better performance for their health is dumb, but somewhat justifiable, a kid doing the same is unacceptable in our society.
 
2012-10-10 06:05:08 PM

Relatively Obscure: The mail is goddamn awesome.


I never understood the post office hate. I'm still amazed that for less than 50 cents I can send a letter across the country in like 2 days
 
2012-10-10 06:05:39 PM

roc6783:

It's one of the few times "Think of the CHILDREN!!!" .

that is all i said during the 2005 baseball senate hearings when people were tired of hearing about that 24/7, these kids thought it was ok to use steroids way before then.
 
2012-10-10 06:06:34 PM

thecpt: Blood doping, and this "team" sport are a completely different beast though


What amazes me is that people still defend the tour victories despite the fact that even if you have your head in the sand and assume lance was clean his entire 'team' has now fessed up. Absolute best case scenario - lance armstrong is the most naive moron in the cycling world to not know he was being ferried up the alps by a team chock full of dopers. But even that's a fantasy - on team armstrong you did what captain lance commanded and the training regimen begins with a syringe and a bag of blood.
 
2012-10-10 06:08:18 PM

roc6783: expobill: whistleridge: t And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.

the problem with doping in sports was too many kids were dying after injecting steroids, so the US Senate stepped in and had these hearing which served it's purpose, kids stopped dying!

Many clean cyclist have won major races in the past and present- i'm happy!

It's one of the few times "Think of the CHILDREN!!!" is not overprotective hand wringing. If professionals are allowed to overtly embrace the use of performance enhancers, then college and high school athletes will be all over it. An adult making a semi-informed decision to trade better performance for their health is dumb, but somewhat justifiable, a kid doing the same is unacceptable in our society.


Is it bad that my primary reaction to this (meaning both this comment and the whole fuss about Lance) is 'meh'? Because it is. And I'm not trying to be inflammatory or anything. I just. don't. care. There are so many worse problems in the world than one dude in funny pants (or one subset of dudes in funny pants) taking something to ride a bike 5 minutes faster up a hill. I just can't bring myself to care one way or the other.
 
2012-10-10 06:10:54 PM
Where are the legions of 'never failed a test!' guys today?
 
2012-10-10 06:12:28 PM

JohnBigBootay: Where are the legions of 'never failed a test!' guys today?


they all forgot bicycles have 2 wheels by now.
 
2012-10-10 06:13:31 PM

whistleridge: roc6783: expobill: whistleridge: t And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.

the problem with doping in sports was too many kids were dying after injecting steroids, so the US Senate stepped in and had these hearing which served it's purpose, kids stopped dying!

Many clean cyclist have won major races in the past and present- i'm happy!

It's one of the few times "Think of the CHILDREN!!!" is not overprotective hand wringing. If professionals are allowed to overtly embrace the use of performance enhancers, then college and high school athletes will be all over it. An adult making a semi-informed decision to trade better performance for their health is dumb, but somewhat justifiable, a kid doing the same is unacceptable in our society.

Is it bad that my primary reaction to this (meaning both this comment and the whole fuss about Lance) is 'meh'? Because it is. And I'm not trying to be inflammatory or anything. I just. don't. care. There are so many worse problems in the world than one dude in funny pants (or one subset of dudes in funny pants) taking something to ride a bike 5 minutes faster up a hill. I just can't bring myself to care one way or the other.



Then what are you doing in this thread? Go fix the world.
 
2012-10-10 06:17:58 PM

Nabb1: that


For his final tour "victory", you have to drop down to 15th place to find a 3 man podium of people who have never been associated with doping.

/never associated means not even named in a scandal
//it might be 13th... i looked it up because I managed a TDF fantasy league for a few years
///yes, there are cycling fantasy leagues.
 
2012-10-10 06:21:18 PM
So all the dopers are rolling over and making up shiat about Lance to avoid their own suspensions. And we're surprised by this? C'mon. This is all hearsay.
 
2012-10-10 06:22:33 PM
i was at a sports bar during the early 2000 and someone asked what sport's team do I hate the most
without blinking i said "USPS cycling, they are all cheaters!"


i remember posting "cheater" and "he only races in JUly" in every TDF thread since fark started and getting very unfriendly responses and blocked.....i I wish one of these "cycling experts" would respond here.
 
2012-10-10 06:26:07 PM

Bronzed War God:
//it might be 13th... i looked it up because I managed a TDF fantasy league for a few years
///yes, there are cycling fantasy leagues.


i never heard of that, good for you and the sport,
and maybe for fun i might join next year and select valverde or Movistar -ofcourse!
 
2012-10-10 06:30:14 PM

Foxxinnia: We just need a sport where you can dope as much as you want and have them go buck wild.


Ultimate Frisbee
 
2012-10-10 06:30:28 PM

Account Created To Respond To Your Idiocy: Wow, I'm only on like page 50 and it just keeps getting juicier. I have been a cyclist for over 30 years, and I knew about doping long before Armstrong. I always knew he was a fraud because what he did was impossible without some kind of enhancement. The fanbois tend to forget that he sucked at stage racing until his "miracle" tour. DopeStrong and LieStrong about it.
Also, direct link to PDF here:

href="http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/ReasonedDecision.pdf"


Funny how most of that information isn't admissible in a court of law. The USADA, on the other hand, is fee to cut any deals they like, using any tactics available.

What would surprise me is if this is the end of it, or whether the USADA will go on wasting our tax dollars on this crapola. Why not go further back while they're ignoring the statute of limitations?
 
2012-10-10 06:30:50 PM

ArcadianRefugee: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.


Politics tab is to the right. Take your incorrect understanding over there.
 
2012-10-10 06:33:40 PM

JosephFinn: So all the dopers are rolling over and making up shiat about Lance to avoid their own suspensions. And we're surprised by this? C'mon. This is all hearsay.


I suspect you are using sarcasm.

At any rate that defense worked ok when it was Landis. Not so much when Hamilton got on board. And not at all when you have the whole freakin' team. Anyway, now we are supposed to believe that everyone lance ever so much as took a sunday bike ride with have all gotten together to make up the same lie about him. The man is utterly delusional. The goddam sakatchewan lumberjack olympics doesn't have that many axes to grind.
 
2012-10-10 06:34:33 PM

Marcus Aurelius:

Funny how most of that information isn't admissible in a court of law. The USADA, on the other hand, is fee to cut any deals they like, using any tactics available.

What would surprise me is if this is the end of it, or whether the USADA will go on wasting our tax dollars on this crapola. Why not go further back while they're ignoring the statute of limitations?


this topic has been under investigation since 2006 and took this long for these results
 
2012-10-10 06:36:38 PM

expobill: Marcus Aurelius:

Funny how most of that information isn't admissible in a court of law. The USADA, on the other hand, is fee to cut any deals they like, using any tactics available.

What would surprise me is if this is the end of it, or whether the USADA will go on wasting our tax dollars on this crapola. Why not go further back while they're ignoring the statute of limitations?

this topic has been under investigation since 2006 and took this long for these results


Based on pressured accusations and hearsay.

Let me put it this way.

They drug tested him.
He passed the drug tests.
End of story.

The USADA needs to sit down, shut up, and GTFBTW. This is just a pissing contest.
 
2012-10-10 06:40:58 PM

Marcus Aurelius:

They drug tested him.
He passed the drug tests.
End of story.

The USADA needs to sit down, shut up, and GTFBTW. This is just a pissing contest.


no they did not have the technology to track blood transfusing like they do now. AND there are samples of USPS cycling having extra blood cells in the tests- the UCI either let this slip or who know what, that is another chapter to a continuing story.
 
2012-10-10 06:42:30 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Let me put it this way.


I'll be succinct - your hero is a cheat. And what's more he's been cheating the entire time.
 
2012-10-10 06:44:45 PM

expobill: Marcus Aurelius:

They drug tested him.
He passed the drug tests.
End of story.

The USADA needs to sit down, shut up, and GTFBTW. This is just a pissing contest.

no they did not have the technology to track blood transfusing like they do now. AND there are samples of USPS cycling having extra blood cells in the tests- the UCI either let this slip or who know what, that is another chapter to a continuing story.


So a US taxpayer funded agency spent six years investigating a guy that spent his summers cycling around France to see if maybe he took some EPO and transfused his blood.

Does that sound reasonable or rational or sane to you? Because to me it seems completely insane.
 
2012-10-10 06:44:57 PM
Marcus Aurelius
oops, how are we?
we have locked horns here in the past, but always shook hands- sorry for being abrupt.
i rode around port jervis and sommerset Nj at times years ago.
I hope you are ok and enjoying the foliage, here in madison wi we are experiencing some nice colors on our bike and road paths.
 
2012-10-10 06:47:38 PM

Marcus Aurelius:


So a US taxpayer funded agency spent six years investigating a guy that spent his summers cycling around France to see if maybe he took some EPO and transfused his blood.

Does that sound reasonable or rational or sane to you? Because to me it seems completely insane.


the UCI screamed fraud years ago and the USADA had to investigate to save their buts from any evidence they knew the cyclist transfused blood after tests, or that would be a conspiracy towards their winnings income.
 
2012-10-10 06:49:15 PM

Nabb1: The real joke about all this is that the guys who would stand to get Lance's stripped Tour de France wins are all embroiled in their own doping scandals.


Thats what I find weird about this. Appaerently it would be hardder to find a TDF cyclist who wasn't doping. So why not let the past go and start cleaning it up for the future. Wouldn't stuffing your entire record book in the shredder damage your sport worse than just accepting that everyone was on the stuff and therefore it wasn't an actual factor?
 
2012-10-10 06:49:15 PM

Marcus Aurelius: So a US taxpayer funded agency spent six years investigating a guy that spent his summers cycling around France to see if maybe he took some EPO and transfused his blood.

Does that sound reasonable or rational or sane to you? Because to me it seems completely insane.



To be fair they guy cycling around france was supported for many years by a team funded with US tax dollars. Our govt has spent more on less. If I had a vote I'd have voted not to pursue the matter. But they didn't ask me. In the meantime it's kind of fun to see a lying narcissistic bully get his due.
 
2012-10-10 06:50:50 PM

JohnBigBootay: Marcus Aurelius: Let me put it this way.

I'll be succinct - your hero is a cheat. And what's more he's been cheating the entire time.


He ain't my hero, pal, and he sure as hell took as many banned substances as the next guy.

Guess what? They all did.

But I'm sure the USADA will figure out how to waste more of my tax dollars regardless.
 
2012-10-10 06:52:00 PM

Digitalstrange: Thats what I find weird about this. Appaerently it would be hardder to find a TDF cyclist who wasn't doping. So why not let the past go and start cleaning it up for the future.


Nah. I mean, yeah, most were doping. But not all. And I'd say they left the job unfinished if they stopped at busting everyone EXCEPT the guy who won and gained the most financially from the fraud. Sure, it was a fool's errand but you might as well finish the stupid job once you've begun it.
 
2012-10-10 06:53:08 PM

Marcus Aurelius: So a US taxpayer funded agency spent six years investigating a guy that spent his summers cycling around France to see if maybe he took some EPO and transfused his blood.

Does that sound reasonable or rational or sane to you? Because to me it seems completely insane.


The USADA isn't a goverment agency, and it also doesn't take money from the government. I still think the whole organization is a joke, but they aren't taking tax payer money.
 
2012-10-10 06:53:15 PM

expobill: Marcus Aurelius
oops, how are we?
we have locked horns here in the past, but always shook hands- sorry for being abrupt.
i rode around port jervis and sommerset Nj at times years ago.
I hope you are ok and enjoying the foliage, here in madison wi we are experiencing some nice colors on our bike and road paths.


We've got good leaves here this year, the rains came just in time. Unfortunately they also watered my oak tree, and the damned squirrels are waging trench warfare in my front yard burying the acorns. Talk about a double edged sword.
 
2012-10-10 06:53:50 PM

Marcus Aurelius: He ain't my hero, pal, and he sure as hell took as many banned substances as the next guy.

Guess what? They all did.


I'd say there's substantial reason to believe he may have taken more than the next guy and more often to boot. And no, they weren't all dirty. We've just never heard of the guys who weren't.
 
2012-10-10 06:54:31 PM

Digitalstrange: So why not let the past go and start cleaning it up for the future.

that was why Contador received his ban and strip from cycling because he had a thumbnail's worth of "Chernobyl" in his sysyem from tainted beef- pure accident but none the less.
He still won the Vuelta this year.
/only by 11 seconds to my hero Valverde!
 
2012-10-10 06:55:44 PM
Lance wasn't the best cyclist, he was the best doper. He was a leader and pioneer in the field of doping, that is the problem. The fanboys just can't seem to grasp what a pos Armstrong was and how badly he effected professional cycling. The whole you couldnt win if you didn't dope line is correct, but it leaves out the part that Armstrong and his team were the single most reason that things got to that point. He needs to give back his winnings and a huge chunk of endorsement money now, he is through.
 
2012-10-10 06:55:51 PM

marsgwar: Marcus Aurelius: So a US taxpayer funded agency spent six years investigating a guy that spent his summers cycling around France to see if maybe he took some EPO and transfused his blood.

Does that sound reasonable or rational or sane to you? Because to me it seems completely insane.

The USADA isn't a goverment agency, and it also doesn't take money from the government. I still think the whole organization is a joke, but they aren't taking tax payer money.


USADA is not a government entity, however the agency is partly funded by the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), with its remaining budget generated from contracts for anti-doping services with sport organizations, most notably the United States Olympic Committee

Sounds like tax dollars to me.
 
2012-10-10 06:56:45 PM

marsgwar: The USADA isn't a goverment agency, and it also doesn't take money from the government. I still think the whole organization is a joke, but they aren't taking tax payer money


Upon further reading I did find they get some of their money from taxes, so your criticism in that regarded is founded.
 
2012-10-10 07:00:42 PM

Marcus Aurelius: expobill:

We've got good leaves here this year, the rains came just in time. Unfortunately they also watered my oak tree, and the damned squirrels are waging trench warfare in my front yard burying the acorns. Talk about a double edged sword.

the Oaks around my sister's houe have grown so much (40 feet) the squirrels are overwhelmed by the amount of acorns.
those squirrels are everywhere, they time themselves perfectly to run under cyclist tires.
I guess they spend 100% of their time on the ground, they know how to time crossing a path unscathed!
 
2012-10-10 07:02:14 PM

kapaso: Lance wasn't the best cyclist, he was the best doper. He was a leader and pioneer in the field of doping, that is the problem. The fanboys just can't seem to grasp what a pos Armstrong was and how badly he effected professional cycling. The whole you couldnt win if you didn't dope line is correct, but it leaves out the part that Armstrong and his team were the single most reason that things got to that point. He needs to give back his winnings and a huge chunk of endorsement money now, he is through.


he should, but the cash is spent!
 
2012-10-10 07:03:33 PM

kapaso: Lance wasn't the best cyclist, he was the best doper. He was a leader and pioneer in the field of doping, that is the problem. The fanboys just can't seem to grasp what a pos Armstrong was and how badly he effected professional cycling. The whole you couldnt win if you didn't dope line is correct, but it leaves out the part that Armstrong and his team were the single most reason that things got to that point. He needs to give back his winnings and a huge chunk of endorsement money now, he is through.


You are a man that understands the issue here. Armstrong was not only NOT a crusader against doping as he claimed, he completely undermined all the anti-doping efforts by spending millions of dollars and employing doping experts to figure out how to most effectively skirt the rules.
 
2012-10-10 07:05:48 PM
JohnBigBootay
you and a few others knew about the real Lance during his July races, and we got reamed for that!
/best dish served!
 
2012-10-10 07:06:19 PM

expobill: kapaso: Lance wasn't the best cyclist, he was the best doper. He was a leader and pioneer in the field of doping, that is the problem. The fanboys just can't seem to grasp what a pos Armstrong was and how badly he effected professional cycling. The whole you couldnt win if you didn't dope line is correct, but it leaves out the part that Armstrong and his team were the single most reason that things got to that point. He needs to give back his winnings and a huge chunk of endorsement money now, he is through.

he should, but the cash is spent!


He may keep his primary residence, if it is below a certain value and a car, if it is below a certain value. He owes a lot of money to people who always use the best lawyers. Lance knew what the consequences were, although I doubt he is a position to deal with them.
 
2012-10-10 07:10:25 PM

kapaso:

He may keep his primary residence, if it is below a certain value and a car, if it is below a certain value. He owes a lot of money to people who always use the best lawyers. Lance knew what the consequences were, although I doubt he is a position to deal with them.


My sister read, i think purchased 2 of his books, she like Bios and knows he is an ass, but thinks highly of him-and got tired of my sore-loser attitude towards him and the USPS team
this was years ago, and i don't think she cares today
 
2012-10-10 07:11:27 PM

Marcus Aurelius: expobill: Marcus Aurelius:

They drug tested him.
He passed the drug tests.
End of story.

The USADA needs to sit down, shut up, and GTFBTW. This is just a pissing contest.

no they did not have the technology to track blood transfusing like they do now. AND there are samples of USPS cycling having extra blood cells in the tests- the UCI either let this slip or who know what, that is another chapter to a continuing story.

So a US taxpayer funded agency spent six years investigating a guy that spent his summers cycling around France to see if maybe he took some EPO and transfused his blood.

Does that sound reasonable or rational or sane to you? Because to me it seems completely insane.


Thank you. That's what I was trying to say earlier, but less well and at greater length.
 
2012-10-10 07:13:32 PM
i still say my headline was funnier!
 
2012-10-10 07:22:20 PM
Reading through this thing is hilarious...

There will not be a hearing in this case because Lance Armstrong strategically avoided it.
He voluntarily gave up the right to cross examine the witnesses against him. He abandoned his
opportunity to testify (and avoided the prospect of being cross examined) under oath in response
to USADA's witnesses. Therefore, the truth in this case is set forth in writing in this Reasoned
Decision.


The witnesses cited in this Reasoned Decision have testified under oath, through
affidavits in which they have sworn to tell the truth under penalties of perjury. Lance Armstrong
does not testify this way - because he did not want to testify - he wanted to walk away and avoid
the truth telling. However, his refusal to attend a hearing still speaks volumes.

Now that the witnesses have testified it is USADA's responsibility to issue its Reasoned
Decision. This Reasoned Decision is the true record of the evidence in the case of The United
States Anti-Doping Agency v. Lance Armstrong.


Their word is apparently the law.
 
2012-10-10 07:22:25 PM
I'm just tired of hearing about this. Are we done yet? Can we get back to cycling now? Please?
 
2012-10-10 07:24:33 PM

crotchgrabber: I'm just tired of hearing about this. Are we done yet? Can we get back to cycling now? Please?


the season is over, tour of aussie starts in mid-january
 
2012-10-10 07:26:03 PM

expobill: JohnBigBootay
you and a few others knew about the real Lance during his July races, and we got reamed for that!
/best dish served!


I just cannot wrap my mind around a guy who went to such massive lengths to cover all this shiat up for so long. If I had any lingering doubts they were completely washed away by George Hincapie. It's simply not remotely plausibleyou could get that many people to tell the same lie. You got the entire doping team, the doping trainer and the doping doctor and the doping team manager. But the guy who won the races was clean. Ok, sure. I buy that.
 
2012-10-10 07:26:29 PM

Marcus Aurelius: marsgwar: Marcus Aurelius: So a US taxpayer funded agency spent six years investigating a guy that spent his summers cycling around France to see if maybe he took some EPO and transfused his blood.

Does that sound reasonable or rational or sane to you? Because to me it seems completely insane.

The USADA isn't a goverment agency, and it also doesn't take money from the government. I still think the whole organization is a joke, but they aren't taking tax payer money.

USADA is not a government entity, however the agency is partly funded by the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), with its remaining budget generated from contracts for anti-doping services with sport organizations, most notably the United States Olympic Committee

Sounds like tax dollars to me.


Do you want to be in the Olympics? You need to fund anti-doping agencies. Maybe you should cull the USDA and American athletes can be global pariahs.
 
2012-10-10 07:27:53 PM
well, im headed to celebrate octoberfest- just today was a sad day for those (except lance) who rode for the USPS team and had their wins and achievements taken away.
 
2012-10-10 07:38:34 PM

crotchgrabber: I'm just tired of hearing about this. Are we done yet? Can we get back to cycling now? Please?


Not likely - but go ahead and see if you can get a link approved for the Vuelta or Paris Roubaix. For all intents and purposes LA IS cycling is the US so this will go away just about never.

Oh, and if anyone wants to know why Lance quit and did not challenge the results, it was because he knew that his steadfast lieutenent would be taking the stand and he knew the guy he dedicated his book to would not lie...

At a race in Spain in 2000, Hincapie said Armstrong told him he was "feeling good" and had just taken some "oil," meaning testosterone. Hincapie also testified that when he heard that drug-testing officials were at the hotel, "I texted Lance to warn him to avoid the place. As a result, Lance dropped out of the race."

Hincapie said he was aware Armstrong used blood doping in every Tour de France from 2001 to 2005. Before the 2005 Tour de France,Hincapie said Armstrong "gave me two vials of EPO while we were both in Nice,France."

After the 2005 Tour, Hincapie said team director Johan Bruyneel asked him "to make sure there were no doping materials" in Armstrong's apartment that could be found by others. Hincapie said he then conducted a drug sweep of Armstrong's apartment.
 
2012-10-10 07:40:43 PM
I don't really care whether Lance did or didn't dope. If he did, then he beat a bunch of other druggies at their own game. If he didn't, well that's even more impressive. I do wish, however, that the evidence consisted of more than just the testimony of people who have already admitted to doping. I simply don't think they should be taking anyone's titles away without something as conclusive and impartial as a drug test.
 
2012-10-10 07:42:47 PM
Heading out for a bit, but I just got through reading the first of the 'concrete' evidence affidavits, specifically from Emma O'Reilly, who tells a compelling tale of first hand accounts before ending with a bit about a personal conflict between Armstrong and herself where she claims he ruined her reputation.

Strike one.

I wonder how many more individuals with potential grudges will be turned up by this mess?
 
2012-10-10 08:01:14 PM
You do realize that the team doping is sufficient grounds for having the titles taken away right?
 
2012-10-10 08:04:12 PM
The evidence against Armstrong is devastating. If there was an issue with doping in cycling before Armstrong, just think how much Lance's and his team's use would have contributed to that culture. When it comes to doping in sports it's always important to go after ring leaders such as Armstrong to set an example that this behavior will not be tolerated. Perhaps many of the other cyclists were doping as well but unless we can prove it, they will most likely escape the same fate. This era of cycling will be forever tainted by Armstrong's legacy. I just hope that he can serve as an example to young athletes anywhere that doping is not worth the consequences.
 
2012-10-10 08:07:18 PM

expobill: crotchgrabber: I'm just tired of hearing about this. Are we done yet? Can we get back to cycling now? Please?

the season is over, tour of aussie starts in mid-january


I live in California. The season doesn't end. Cyclocross is rocking right now.
 
2012-10-10 08:11:02 PM
Just popped in to add to the chorus that the post office is amazing.

For pocket change, you can drop an envelope into a box on the street and they will deliver it to any address in the country within a few days. And they'll hand-deliver all your mail and packages to your door, six days a week, at no cost to you.

It's an amazing service for the price, and I don't get the hate for it either. But I guess some people's politics ave caused them to decide, a priori, that any quasi-governmental agency must necessarily be wasteful, inefficient, and mismanaged.
 
2012-10-10 08:12:33 PM
Ummm. shouldn't it be presumed that an even more successful scheme wouldn't have been ever exposed in the first place, and thusly probably happening right now?
 
2012-10-10 08:20:19 PM
Hincapie has no ax to grind and owes his career to Lance.

Vandevelde has no ax to grind.

They both tweeted statements admitting their guilt.
 
2012-10-10 08:56:14 PM

expobill: Foxxinnia: We just need a sport where you can dope as much as you want and have them go buck wild.

wrestling?


was going to say MMA, but yeah, wrestling works too.
 
2012-10-10 09:11:03 PM

whistleridge: Is it bad that my primary reaction to this (meaning both this comment and the whole fuss about Lance) is 'meh'? Because it is. And I'm not trying to be inflammatory or anything. I just. don't. care. There are so many worse problems in the world than one dude in funny pants (or one subset of dudes in funny pants) taking something to ride a bike 5 minutes faster up a hill. I just can't bring myself to care one way or the other.


No, it's not. It's bad that you came in a thread full of people who might care and want to have a discussion to take a giant shiat. But thanks anyway.
 
2012-10-10 09:20:48 PM
I don't give a crap what Armstrong and the rest did. The guy is still an amazing athlete and could kick my ass at anything. Too bad his gutless teammates didn't man up and shut their farking traps.

Does no one follow the code of omerta any more? We have become completely pussified.
 
2012-10-10 09:39:00 PM

Rodeodoc: I don't give a crap what Armstrong and the rest did. The guy is still an amazing athlete and could kick my ass at anything. Too bad his gutless teammates didn't man up and shut their farking traps.

Does no one follow the code of omerta any more? We have become completely pussified.


If you're going to troll a cycling thread, it helps to get in on that action in the Boobiess. In fact, I'm shocked this thread made it to 100.
 
2012-10-10 09:48:42 PM

Rodeodoc: I don't give a crap what Armstrong and the rest did. The guy is still an amazing athlete and could kick my ass at anything. Too bad his gutless teammates didn't man up and shut their farking traps.

Does no one follow the code of omerta any more? We have become completely pussified.


No shiat. I mean whatever happened to lying to the grave to protect the guy you helped make 100 million bucks who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire? People have no ethics anymore. If we don't protect the cheats we won't have any heroes anymore.
 
2012-10-10 10:02:26 PM
if they have irrefutable physical evidence of Armstrong having doped or a recording of him admitting to it then i willbelieve it , other wise my doubts remain as these 11 guys have reason to want to ruin Armstrong.
 
2012-10-10 10:03:05 PM

I feel cheated. I want a...

www.homevideos.com

"Don't you say it!"
 
2012-10-10 10:04:27 PM
The Mayans were right.....aboot lance!
 
2012-10-10 10:05:09 PM
I care little about the actual investigation, but I sure find it fascinating that, over really the better part of the last 8-10 years, looking at the sheer volume of various teammates, business partners, "confidants", and others w/in Armstrong's circle that have come out against him in one way or another, and most importantly, aside from direct doping accusations, how every single story also paints him as a complete farking asshole as well.

I don't dislike Armstrong for the alleged doping. I dislike him because if that many people equally also consider you a total scumbag, then, you are a total f*cking scumbag.
 
2012-10-10 10:05:14 PM
So Lance is still claiming he is innocent. Ok, WTF, I'll play along. How much of asshole do you have to be to have 11 of your former teammates testify, under oath, to "frame" your ass? Innocent but a raging douchenozzle. That is the best possible scenario for Lance right now.
 
2012-10-10 10:10:08 PM
It used to be famous people had handlers. You could lie to every kid on the planet, they'd still love you and hold you up as their hero.

Now days, all he can do is either keep lying or look into the camera and say "Sorry, kid, you farked up. You trusted me."

He probably should just do the latter to all his friends and fans, then shut up, and live off his past and future royalties.
 
2012-10-10 10:21:27 PM

grimlock1972: if they have irrefutable physical evidence of Armstrong having doped or a recording of him admitting to it then i willbelieve it , other wise my doubts remain as these 11 guys have reason to want to ruin Armstrong.


You've got to be kidding me. If for no other reason than what killer cars said.

Hincapie for example. The dude retired for farks sake. All he had to do was take the fifth and ride it out. Thankfully there are still some people for whom the truth is its own reward. Dude wanted to be able to look in the mirror for the rest of his life. Good for him.

What the fark is it about Lance Armstrong that makes people assume he's the one guy telling the truth? I'll never understand why we think having cancer grants sainthood. Everyone realizes he makes a shiatload of money from livestrong, right?

Seriously - think about the biggest Dick you have ever known in your entire life. Now imagine you want to take him down somehow. Do you really think it would be plausible that you could find 26 people who would lie under oath to accomplish your task?
 
2012-10-10 10:37:44 PM
So, now that USADA has taken away Lance's wins, are they going to take away those home runs of MacGwire, Sosa and Bonds?
 
2012-10-10 10:43:41 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: ArcadianRefugee: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.

Politics tab is to the right. Take your incorrect understanding over there.


"The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA), which obligates the USPS to prefund 75 years' worth of future health care benefit payments to retirees within a ten-year time span - a requirement to which no other government organization is subject" ~wikipedia

But I am certain you will educate us all in just how misinformed we both are in our assertion that the USPS would be fiscally stable if not for this idiotic law.

Go ahead. Enlighten us.

Or just, you know, make another snarky comment and then flee without a single fact to back you up.

Dick.
 
2012-10-10 10:44:39 PM
Damn Lance
 
2012-10-10 10:51:32 PM

teto85: So, now that USADA has taken away Lance's wins, are they going to take away those home runs of MacGwire, Sosa and Bonds?


Is MacGwire related to McGwire?
 
2012-10-10 11:14:00 PM
Alright! Act 2 is upon us. Act 1 saw the (anti)hero say "no mad" to the USADA bounding him. Now the USADA lays their cards on the table.

Act 3 is the long slow screw of the USADA and their tactics. Coerced evidence, hearsay, and a lack of scientific proof. (He really has not failed a test!)

Act 4, Lance is still discredited but so is the head of the USADA as their egos consume each other in a glorious public conflagration.
 
2012-10-10 11:31:57 PM

Snort: Alright! Act 2 is upon us. Act 1 saw the (anti)hero say "no mad" to the USADA bounding him. Now the USADA lays their cards on the table.

Act 3 is the long slow screw of the USADA and their tactics. Coerced evidence, hearsay, and a lack of scientific proof. (He really has not failed a test!)

Act 4, Lance is still discredited but so is the head of the USADA as their egos consume each other in a glorious public conflagration.


Sure, but no one ever roots for the police. No one roots for the principal, or the board, or the umpire or the referee or the NCAA or WADA or the IOC or the PGA our Roger Goodell. Doesn't matter. However it came out, whatever tactics were used, we still all know Lance lied and cheated. He's arguably a better liar than cyclist. Even Barry Bonds finally admitted he took steroids. Even Pete Rose finally admitted to betting on baseball. Great tour de France rider (I'll save 'cyclist' for those who had success in other races) but he's no Greg Lemond.
 
2012-10-11 12:17:02 AM

Marcus Aurelius: expobill: Marcus Aurelius:

Funny how most of that information isn't admissible in a court of law. The USADA, on the other hand, is fee to cut any deals they like, using any tactics available.

What would surprise me is if this is the end of it, or whether the USADA will go on wasting our tax dollars on this crapola. Why not go further back while they're ignoring the statute of limitations?

this topic has been under investigation since 2006 and took this long for these results

Based on pressured accusations and hearsay.

Let me put it this way.

They drug tested him.
He passed the drug tests.
End of story.

The USADA needs to sit down, shut up, and GTFBTW. This is just a pissing contest.


Put down that GED law degree before you hurt yourself. People testifying about events that they witnessed, IS NOT HEARSAY.
 
2012-10-11 12:28:21 AM
today was not about lance, but we are mentioning him too much.
that is why he sucks!
 
2012-10-11 12:42:32 AM
Wow, so the testimony of a dozen guys not as good as Armstrong, who all got caught doping is enough to convict him. Color me shocked.

The French hated him - still do - yet you think after each stage win, tour win and random test sample they would have found something. He was probably the most heavily tested athlete in the world and never failed a test. It takes analysts, hand picked by the USADA to find anomalies in his samples a half a dozen years or so after the fact.

Did he dope? It is possible. With all the doping in the sport, 8th in the tour is good enough for the podium after all the dopers are kicked out but I find it hard to believe that if the tiger woods of cycling was tested after every other race for 7 years and found nothing, it takes a bunch of disgruntled ex-riders and dopers to sway opinion the other way.
 
2012-10-11 02:32:00 AM

o5iiawah:
Did he dope? It is possible. With all the doping in the sport, 8th in the tour is good enough for the podium after all the dopers are kicked out but I find it hard to believe that if the tiger woods of cycling was tested after every other race for 7 years and found nothing, it takes a bunch of disgruntled ex-riders and dopers to sway opinion the other way.


It's not possible, it's definite. Read the report. He doped. His whole damn team doped. As someone who rooted for Lance and didn't want to believe that he was a doper, the report isn't just a slap in the face type of wake up call. It's like getting a 1000 gallons of ice water dumped on me.

In a way, it's like the rat bastard Sandusky. They both proclaim they're innocent and victims of a witch hunt or conspiracy. And if it was just 1 or 2 people calling them guilty, they might have had a point. But when you're talking about 8 victims (in Sandusky's case) or 11 witnesses (in Armstrong's case), then the conspiracy card is just unfathomable.

Yes, some of the witnesses against Armstrong aren't the most credible people. But consider those who hadn't been caught before testifying against him and had every reason to not go against him and it becomes very clear that Armstrong was everything he said he wasn't.

Strip him of all those Tour titles and everything else he won. All 7 Tours should be declared vacant and not have a champion since it's clear that it's nearly impossible to find someone who was clean in those Tours.
 
2012-10-11 03:00:48 AM
They should put Lance Armstrong and Jerry Sandusky in the same room together, close the door and just watch the denial energy ooze through the walls.
 
2012-10-11 04:43:24 AM

Nabb1: The real joke about all this is that the guys who would stand to get Lance's stripped Tour de France wins are all embroiled in their own doping scandals.


That would be funny if it weren't pathetic. What people do to win...
 
2012-10-11 06:41:44 AM

teto85: So, now that USADA has taken away Lance's wins, are they going to take away those home runs of MacGwire, Sosa and Bonds?


MLB decided they would rather have baseball chucked out of the Olympics than conform to any sort of rigourous and independent drug testing program. So the USADA does not assert authority over baseball as a sport.
 
2012-10-11 07:58:51 AM

o5iiawah: He was probably the most heavily tested athlete in the world and never failed a test.


His samples show EPO, now that they know how to test for it. But it's a B sample, not the original. He doped, get over it.
 
2012-10-11 08:37:53 AM

o5iiawah: He was probably the most heavily tested athlete in the world and never failed a test.


Neither did Marion Jones. She admitted she had been cheating since 1999.
 
2012-10-11 09:03:50 AM

o5iiawah: Wow, so the testimony of a dozen guys not as good as Armstrong, who all got caught doping is enough to convict him. Color me shocked.

The French hated him - still do - yet you think after each stage win, tour win and random test sample they would have found something. He was probably the most heavily tested athlete in the world and never failed a test. It takes analysts, hand picked by the USADA to find anomalies in his samples a half a dozen years or so after the fact.

Did he dope? It is possible. With all the doping in the sport, 8th in the tour is good enough for the podium after all the dopers are kicked out but I find it hard to believe that if the tiger woods of cycling was tested after every other race for 7 years and found nothing, it takes a bunch of disgruntled ex-riders and dopers to sway opinion the other way.


He doped. Get over it. There is no way a guy with one testicle is beating guys who were just as talented as him and who trained just as hard as he was who were doping.
 
2012-10-11 09:31:26 AM
Dopers actually get caught more by being caught with blood doping equipment, associating with known doping suppliers and direct eyewitness reports than by blood test results.

That is how Marion Jones went down. Bonds tested positive in 200 but the majority of his problems came from being associated with Balco.

At the highest levels, the dopers have Phds and scientists working with them to avoid testing positive. The science behind performance enhancement will always be one step ahead of the tests.
 
2012-10-11 09:38:41 AM
The take away I have is that if everyone was doping (as shown by the testimony) then this proves that doping doesn't level a playing field and all of the guys caught in baseball have 0 ground to stand on when it comes to that.
 
2012-10-11 09:41:15 AM

HeathenHealer: o5iiawah: He was probably the most heavily tested athlete in the world and never failed a test.

Neither did Marion Jones. She admitted she had been cheating since 1999.


Same with Tim Montgomery. Or any of the half dozen of Armstrong's teammates who testified that they all doped together while riding for USPS/Discovery, but that the doctors knew how to get them to pass tests...
 
2012-10-11 10:21:31 AM

whistleridge: Yeah, I'm not a Lance apologist by any stretch. More just sick of hearing this sort of thing from every angle. First it was baseball, then it was cycling...I would be utterly unsurprised if it turns out ten years from now that Michael Phelps was doping...


Oh, Phelps has been doping alright. Just not the kind that would get the USADA up in arms.

/hay hay hay...
 
2012-10-11 10:57:48 AM
Armstrong did not respond directly to the report being released, but did go on Twitter on Wednesday night to say, "What am I doing tonight? Hanging with my family, unaffected, and thinking about this.." followed by a link to his Livestrong Foundation's web site.

Just wait a while Lance. I suspect you'll be "affected" soon enough. I mean you already are as the biggest tri's and marathons won't accept your entry. And I suspect the underwriters for the guys who put up the five million dollar TDF bonus will be in touch shortly. The question is are you capable of fessing up and trying to retain an ounce of self-respect? I suspect not.
 
2012-10-11 11:04:50 AM

JohnBigBootay: Armstrong did not respond directly to the report being released, but did go on Twitter on Wednesday night to say, "What am I doing tonight? Hanging with my family, unaffected, and thinking about this.." followed by a link to his Livestrong Foundation's web site.

Just wait a while Lance. I suspect you'll be "affected" soon enough. I mean you already are as the biggest tri's and marathons won't accept your entry. And I suspect the underwriters for the guys who put up the five million dollar TDF bonus will be in touch shortly. The question is are you capable of fessing up and trying to retain an ounce of self-respect? I suspect not.


I did a kids triathlon (with my kids; super sprint for parents) last month, and the irony struck me: Lance Armstrong is banned by USAT (via USADA) from competing in the "Lance Amrstrong Foundation Youth Triathlon Series."
 
2012-10-11 11:11:19 AM

Bronzed War God: I did a kids triathlon (with my kids; super sprint for parents) last month, and the irony struck me: Lance Armstrong is banned by USAT (via USADA) from competing in the "Lance Amrstrong Foundation Youth Triathlon Series."


I no longer understand why he insists on this comical Tony Montana style downfall. He'll be widely forgiven and praised as reformer if he'd just be honest about it.
 
2012-10-11 11:19:18 AM

JohnBigBootay: I no longer understand why he insists on this comical Tony Montana style downfall.


People keep telling him they believe him and that they're mad at the USADA for attacking him. Plus, after you tell a lie for so long, you start believing it.
 
2012-10-11 11:36:47 AM

IAmRight: People keep telling him they believe him and that they're mad at the USADA for attacking him. Plus, after you tell a lie for so long, you start believing it.


You got some big egos in pro sports I guess. What's surprising is no one seems to learn - the guys who fess up voluntarily are forgiven. Anyone angry at Pettite or Giambi these days? Nope.The guys who deny, deny, deny even after it's become obvious, continue to be reviled.
 
2012-10-11 12:19:28 PM

JohnBigBootay: Bronzed War God: I did a kids triathlon (with my kids; super sprint for parents) last month, and the irony struck me: Lance Armstrong is banned by USAT (via USADA) from competing in the "Lance Amrstrong Foundation Youth Triathlon Series."

I no longer understand why he insists on this comical Tony Montana style downfall. He'll be widely forgiven and praised as reformer if he'd just be honest about it.


He'shiat the Pete Rose line. Even if he admits it now, no one will care, and he will still be shunned from his sport. As long as he denies it, he has a tiny bit of wiggle room since he never actually failed a test. Once he admits it, all doubt is gone, and so are the people who support him or can look past the allegations and support his charities. If he admits anything now, those people are going to drop him and few will return.
 
2012-10-11 12:51:40 PM

roc6783: He'shiat the Pete Rose line. Even if he admits it now, no one will care, and he will still be shunned from his sport. As long as he denies it, he has a tiny bit of wiggle room since he never actually failed a test. Once he admits it, all doubt is gone, and so are the people who support him or can look past the allegations and support his charities. If he admits anything now, those people are going to drop him and few will return.


Yeah, that's where he's at but I disagree with the shunning. Some would. But I think virtually all of his knowledgeable supporters left are toeing the 'everyone else did it so who cares' line. Despite the irony of that stance given that Armstrong himself has tarred many of his accusers as confirmed cheaters - which would lead one to believe he thinks cheating is bad. Seriously - everyone left would support him if he released a 'here I am shooting epo' youtube video. There just cannot be many people left who doubt he used epo and steroids and skirted tests and arranged for teammates to be supplied as well. Can there? I suppose there are a few folks who actually believe OJ so I guess anything is possible.
 
2012-10-11 01:02:09 PM
i47.tinypic.com

Still a hero in my book.
 
rka
2012-10-11 01:03:24 PM

Marcus Aurelius: But I'm sure the USADA will figure out how to waste more of my tax dollars regardless.


Only a small portion of USADA funding comes from the federal government.

The rest comes from the US Olympic committee and the various sanctioning bodies for the various sports that use USADA dope monitoring.

Complaining about your tax dollars being wasted is a red herring.
 
rka
2012-10-11 01:06:28 PM

Bronzed War God: They both tweeted statements admitting their guilt.


The iron clad court of Twitter is the rule of law these days?

"They tweeted..." Oh! They tweeted? Case closed!!!
 
2012-10-11 01:16:56 PM

rka: Complaining about your tax dollars being wasted is a red herring.


Gonna have to agree. One would assume that substantial tax revenue is generated by selling the consumption of sporting events to a populace operating under the assumption that someone is ensuring somewhat fair competition. Besides - that excuse doesn't fly anyway given that Armstrong's greatest successes came while sponsored by US Postal.
 
rka
2012-10-11 01:43:10 PM

JohnBigBootay: rka: Complaining about your tax dollars being wasted is a red herring.

Gonna have to agree. One would assume that substantial tax revenue is generated by selling the consumption of sporting events to a populace operating under the assumption that someone is ensuring somewhat fair competition. Besides - that excuse doesn't fly anyway given that Armstrong's greatest successes came while sponsored by US Postal.


It's like complaining about how you have to subsidize the Susan G. Komen Walk because they wear out the public streets.
 
2012-10-11 01:54:03 PM

JohnBigBootay: roc6783: ***snip***
Seriously - everyone left would support him if he released a 'here I am shooting epo' youtube video. There just cannot be many people left who doubt he used epo and steroids and skirted tests and arranged for teammates to be supplied as well. Can there? I suppose there are a few folks who actually believe OJ so I guess anything is possible.


When I said "supporters" I meant donors and employers. My fault for lack of clarity. There are enough people in the US that know "Lance Armstrong" the brand, but only know that he was "accused of cheating cuz a bunch of other people were", that the "Lance Armstrong" brand still has major value. If he were to admit that he cheated, all of it would be gone. He now has to protect his brand, he probably couldn't care less about being stripped of the titles, he and the American Public know he won. All he has to do is say, "I never failed a test." and the brand will not take a major hit. If he admitted to cheating, it would be catastrophic.
 
2012-10-11 01:59:12 PM

rka: It's like complaining about how you have to subsidize the Susan G. Komen Walk because they wear out the public streets.


One cannot accept tens of millions of dollars in sponsorship from a government entity and then turn around and cry government waste when they attempt some form of oversight of their investment. That's brazen even for Armstrong.
 
2012-10-11 02:01:54 PM

roc6783: When I said "supporters" I meant donors and employers. My fault for lack of clarity. There are enough people in the US that know "Lance Armstrong" the brand, but only know that he was "accused of cheating cuz a bunch of other people were", that the "Lance Armstrong" brand still has major value. If he were to admit that he cheated, all of it would be gone. He now has to protect his brand, he probably couldn't care less about being stripped of the titles, he and the American Public know he won. All he has to do is say, "I never failed a test." and the brand will not take a major hit. If he admitted to cheating, it would be catastrophic.


I get your point. Fact is he's surrounded by so many heavy hitters who have bankrolled him I sincerely doubt the ultimate control freak is even the master of his own message anymore. It wouldn't surprise me if he's not allowed to fess up because of the financial liability that could ensue.
 
2012-10-11 02:10:41 PM
If your proof of Lance doping starts with "I don't buy..... this or that" you should just shut up. You sound dumb. Evidence is cut and dry.
 
2012-10-11 02:50:51 PM

JohnBigBootay: roc6783: **snip***

I get your point. Fact is he's surrounded by so many heavy hitters who have bankrolled him I sincerely doubt the ultimate control freak is even the master of his own message anymore. It wouldn't surprise me if he's not allowed to fess up because of the financial liability that could ensue.


Plus, he really has nothing to gain. All of the apologists in baseball are either looking at HoF considerations or post-baseball careers. Lance is at the top of that heap now, he doesn't need to make good and hope the forgiveness rolls in before he tries to leverage his name.
 
2012-10-11 06:07:56 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: However, his refusal to attend a hearing still speaks volumes.


That is the biggest bunch of bullshiat. Cops say that all the time. Never mind the Constitution.
 
2012-10-11 07:52:44 PM

rka: Bronzed War God: They both tweeted statements admitting their guilt.

The iron clad court of Twitter is the rule of law these days?

"They tweeted..." Oh! They tweeted? Case closed!!!


Not that they tweeted... that they both did it simultaneously with similar statements. Two people who really have no reason to accuse Lance falsely. Hincapie owes everything to Lance. Yes, USADA got to them somehow and has some dirt on each of them. But Hincapie wouldn't testify or assist against Lance out of spite, like Landis or Hamilton might.

Thus, their statements, via twitter, are in my opinion significant.
 
2012-10-11 08:36:26 PM

Gig103: DeathByGeekSquad: However, his refusal to attend a hearing still speaks volumes.

That is the biggest bunch of bullshiat. Cops say that all the time. Never mind the Constitution.


This is not a criminal case - no cops involved.
 
2012-10-11 11:51:54 PM

kapaso: Lance wasn't the best cyclist, he was the best doper. He was a leader and pioneer in the field of doping, that is the problem. The fanboys just can't seem to grasp what a pos Armstrong was and how badly he effected professional cycling. The whole you couldnt win if you didn't dope line is correct, but it leaves out the part that Armstrong and his team were the single most reason that things got to that point. He needs to give back his winnings and a huge chunk of endorsement money now, he is through.


B.S. Doping has been part of the sport for a long, long time. As noted by others, every one of his competitors over the years doped. Greg LeMond once claimed he was the last guy to win the TdF clean. I've been around the sport long enough to remember that HE was the whipping boy for the French press articles about doping in the pre-Lance era.
 
2012-10-12 12:15:46 AM

bill_01915: k.

B.S. Doping has been part of the sport for a long, long time. As noted by others, every one of his competitors over the years doped. Greg LeMond once claimed he was the last guy to win the TdF clean. I've been around the sport long enough to remember that HE was the whipping boy for the French press articles about doping in the pre-Lance era.


ummm, do we know a Miguel Indurain?
 
2012-10-12 02:00:50 AM
I dont understand why if their evidence is so cut and dry, the federal investigation was just dropped.

I thought they saved the B samples for years, shouldnt they be able to test them now and come up with more than, people saying they saw it happen, if a lack of technology was the issue then?

Everyone who says that no way you could get 26 people to all tell the same lie....havent they all already proved they could do exactly that for years?

I find it interesting that theyre making him out to be the guy pulling all the strings, wouldnt he need a chemistry degree or something to have a super advanced untrackable doping system that lets you pass 500 plus tests? He should really market that at walgreens to people who need to pass a drug test at work.
 
2012-10-12 06:20:04 AM

expobill: bill_01915: k.

B.S. Doping has been part of the sport for a long, long time. As noted by others, every one of his competitors over the years doped. Greg LeMond once claimed he was the last guy to win the TdF clean. I've been around the sport long enough to remember that HE was the whipping boy for the French press articles about doping in the pre-Lance era.

ummm, do we know a Miguel Indurain?


I've read articles where people were quoted questioning whether or not Indurain was clean. LeMond claimed he was the last rider to win clean. I'm pretty sure he didn't forget about Big Mig's 5 year run when he said it.
 
2012-10-12 06:35:36 AM

Magnanimous_Spirit: I dont understand why if their evidence is so cut and dry, the federal investigation was just dropped.

I thought they saved the B samples for years, shouldnt they be able to test them now and come up with more than, people saying they saw it happen, if a lack of technology was the issue then?

Everyone who says that no way you could get 26 people to all tell the same lie....havent they all already proved they could do exactly that for years?

I find it interesting that theyre making him out to be the guy pulling all the strings, wouldnt he need a chemistry degree or something to have a super advanced untrackable doping system that lets you pass 500 plus tests? He should really market that at walgreens to people who need to pass a drug test at work.


The testing rules basically say that the rider gives 2 samples. If the A sample turns up positive he has the right to challenge the result by having the B sample tested. If you test the B sample now, the rider would lose their right to challenge the result as there would be no C sample to test.

For the record, testing authorities have run tests using newer methods on old B samples. This was done primarily to get data about the new tests. Some years back a French reporter got a results sheet and some other documents that matched up LA with positive B samples. While that doesn't constitute a failure of an official doping test because there's no C sample to confirm it, I expect that is another one of those circumstantial facts in the USADA case.
 
2012-10-12 09:25:31 AM

Magnanimous_Spirit: I find it interesting that theyre making him out to be the guy pulling all the strings, wouldnt he need a chemistry degree or something to have a super advanced untrackable doping system that lets you pass 500 plus tests?


No, you just need a doctor that does that for you. BTW, they DID test the B samples and they DID turn up positive. But that's apparently because they're out to frame him.

But yeah, it's totally reasonable to assume that the guy who hadn't won anything of relevance before suddenly became great after getting cancer. So great, in fact, that his entire team had to dope in order to help keep him in front, but he didn't need any in order to dominate the Tour. That 26 people are all being blackmailed into saying Lance doped. That the several hundred thousand dollars given to the testing agency was just a friendly coincidental gift for the people that he saw so often while they were testing him. That several drug tests from several different years were all tainted by some random thug in the labs, who somehow found out which samples were whose.

I'm sure it's much easier to believe in a vast, gigantic conspiracy that achieves nothing rather than the simple, obvious truth: Lance doped and is lying about it.
 
2012-10-12 11:00:52 AM
I agree that there is an overwhelming mountain of testimony by people who say that they saw and participated in unallowed drug use and blood doping and other cheating activities.

However we still don't have a single positive test. And people can lie.

So it's kind of like the FBI trying to convict a mob boss of murder when all they have is the sworn testimony of a dozen of his underlings (who are in jail or under indictment) but they don't have a body.

Yes, it's possible to convict based on that - BUT there's always the question of whether it actually happened or not, since there's no dead body.
 
Displayed 160 of 160 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report