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(USA Today)   "The evidence shows beyond any doubt that the US Postal Service ... ran the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful ... program ... ever seen." If only they were talking about the mail   (usatoday.com) divider line 160
    More: Sad, U.S. Postal Service, George Hincapie, United States Anti-Doping Agency, Floyd Landis, International Cycling Union, international federation, World Anti-Doping Agency, Tour de France  
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3742 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Oct 2012 at 4:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-10 03:09:55 PM
Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.

As for this guy, not that I really care, but I'm curious as to how the USADA has the authority to strip him of titles for an event in another country.
 
2012-10-10 03:17:48 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.

 
2012-10-10 03:18:53 PM
Im reading the 200 page reasoned decision right now. Its incredibly detailed going through the allegations in chronological order with lots of backing testimony. In some regards they were so blatant about their doping practices I think Lance got away with it through sheer hubris to this point.
 
2012-10-10 03:25:51 PM
The real joke about all this is that the guys who would stand to get Lance's stripped Tour de France wins are all embroiled in their own doping scandals.
 
2012-10-10 03:45:35 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.


I'm glad you got in here Weeners this.
 
2012-10-10 03:49:43 PM
Sounds like they had a ball with that investigation
 
2012-10-10 04:15:06 PM
The mail is goddamn awesome.
 
2012-10-10 04:27:57 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.

As for this guy, not that I really care, but I'm curious as to how the USADA has the authority to strip him of titles for an event in another country.


Because national anti-doing authorities agreed to uphold each others' decisions in all sports covered by WADA.
 
2012-10-10 04:39:12 PM

DrySocket: In some regards they were so blatant about their doping practices I think Lance got away with it through sheer hubris to this point.


The guy definitely has balls.
 
2012-10-10 04:40:38 PM
It would be a shorter list of cyclists who have not doped.
 
2012-10-10 04:44:41 PM
If a white man wins an endurance competition, chances are he cheated.
 
2012-10-10 04:46:25 PM
Wow, I'm only on like page 50 and it just keeps getting juicier. I have been a cyclist for over 30 years, and I knew about doping long before Armstrong. I always knew he was a fraud because what he did was impossible without some kind of enhancement. The fanbois tend to forget that he sucked at stage racing until his "miracle" tour. DopeStrong and LieStrong about it.
Also, direct link to PDF here:

href="http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/ReasonedDecision.pdf"
 
2012-10-10 04:46:25 PM

malaktaus: DrySocket: In some regards they were so blatant about their doping practices I think Lance got away with it through sheer hubris to this point.

The guy definitely has balls.


FTFY
 
2012-10-10 04:47:14 PM

Nabb1: The real joke about all this is that the guys who would stand to get Lance's stripped Tour de France wins are all embroiled in their own doping scandals.


No, the real joke will be Lance's defenders who will still claim that he was the only cyclist in the universe who wasn't doping.
 
2012-10-10 04:47:45 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.


And I will start caring that Congress is trying to kill them off when they stop delivering twenty pounds of garbage to my house every week. We should put the farkers in prison with the email spammers.
 
2012-10-10 04:49:55 PM
and Lance is still claiming he is innocent, even today-what an ass!
i don't feel bad for Hincapie, Levi- and glad Banesto and now Movistar ran a great European cycling team since the 1980s, something we can be proud of winning 5 straight tours without the use of blood transfusions!
 
2012-10-10 04:51:30 PM
Oh, and my headline was MUCH more funnier: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.
 
2012-10-10 04:54:14 PM

expobill: and Lance is still claiming he is innocent, even today-what an ass!


I assume he stopped contesting the matter so that it would never been definitively proved against him... so he could deny it publicly as much as he wants, because he never mounted a defense.
 
2012-10-10 04:56:42 PM
Lance will never admit he doped. His ego is too big.
 
2012-10-10 04:59:07 PM

Account Created To Respond To Your Idiocy: and I knew about doping long before Armstrong. I always knew he was a fraud....

Me too, just his mannerism and his arrogance in the peloton before those TDF "wins" just rubbed alot of fans the wrong way- even Bugno disliked him.
 
2012-10-10 05:08:12 PM

expobill: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.


No i think there is something else going on. But kudos to you for actually posting what your headline was going to be rather than just saying its better.
 
2012-10-10 05:08:23 PM
Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?
 
2012-10-10 05:10:52 PM
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-10 05:11:44 PM

expobill: Oh, and my headline was MUCH more funnier: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.


I disagree, but to each his own.
 
2012-10-10 05:12:56 PM

whistleridge: Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?


Miguel Indurain won 5 straight TDF, 2 giros and and handful of classics with his skill, great team and suffering from seasonal allergies during the spring months for 20 years and to see someone like Lance cheat his way to the podium only in july, has to feel some comfort today.
/i do!
 
2012-10-10 05:19:17 PM

expobill: Miguel Indurain won 5 straight TDF, 2 giros and and handful of classics with his skill, great team and suffering from seasonal allergies during the spring months for 20 years and to see someone like Lance cheat his way to the podium only in july, has to feel some comfort today.
/i do!


Yes, yes...and Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs, blah, blah.

That was then. This is now. Lance didn't race against Indurain, Merck, LeMond, et al. He raced against a field that was probably at least 50% doping, and whose top 50 riders were all but surely all doping.

And so I ask: what is the point? The 'purity' of the sport? Riders are still doping today. We don't actually *know* they weren't doping against Indurain, just that they weren't caught and that the odds are less in favor of it.

Why act all pure and virginal? Just let them keep the damn titles, put an asterisk by their names, and move on with life.
 
2012-10-10 05:22:33 PM

whistleridge: Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?


I use to throw (shot put) competitively so I can only somewhat relate in the fact that it really sucks and makes you feel awful. Every record from the 80s and 90s that still stands just reminds you that you can't be the best ever because of what's happened before. I would prefer to have mandatory testing a week or so before a major competition due to it because I knew:
A. I was completely clean.
B. Other people weren't. (one person flat out bragged about it.)

Blood doping, and this "team" sport are a completely different beast though
 
2012-10-10 05:30:49 PM

expobill: Oh, and my headline was MUCH more funnier: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.


Yours WAS better, but you were disqualified for taking performance enhancing substances.
 
2012-10-10 05:31:26 PM

whistleridge: hat was then. This is now. Lance didn't race against Indurain,


yes Lance did, if you call that racing.....Mig destroyed him!
 
2012-10-10 05:32:50 PM

cgraves67: expobill: Oh, and my headline was MUCH more funnier: "Lance was no dope when he doped"
just most farkers can't get over Lance asshat and the TDF being the only race in europe.

Yours WAS better, but you were disqualified for taking performance enhancing substances.


im clean, i refused a pharm in 1998 to cure allergies because that was laced with steroids!
 
2012-10-10 05:35:23 PM
We just need a sport where you can dope as much as you want and have them go buck wild.
 
2012-10-10 05:37:07 PM

Foxxinnia: We just need a sport where you can dope as much as you want and have them go buck wild.


wrestling?
 
2012-10-10 05:37:17 PM
www.monorailmike.com 

/usps is damn solid as a service.
 
2012-10-10 05:41:47 PM

whistleridge:
And so I ask: what is the point? The 'purity' of the sport? Riders are still doping today. We don't actually *know* they weren't doping against Indurain, just that they weren't caught and that the odds are less in favor of it.

Why act all pure and virginal? Just let them keep the damn titles, put an asterisk by their names, and move on with life.


the sport needed to cleanse itself after the festina debacle in 1998 were they tossed out the team during the TDF- the UCI made a mistake by not punishing lance during his *wins and punished every winner since then, Contador and Valverde never should have received any suspensions compared to what Lance got away with- that is why "we" were very upset, but little relaxed today!
 
2012-10-10 05:42:00 PM
Who farking cares, so a doper beat a bunch of other dopers. Since everyone was doping, doesn't it cancel out the competitive advantage?
 
2012-10-10 05:45:46 PM

there their theyre: Who farking cares, so a doper beat a bunch of other dopers. Since everyone was doping, doesn't it cancel out the competitive advantage?


It's a race between medical theories. Lance's technology was superior, so, his medical team won a lot of Tours.
 
2012-10-10 05:46:01 PM

thecpt: whistleridge: Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?

I use to throw (shot put) competitively so I can only somewhat relate in the fact that it really sucks and makes you feel awful. Every record from the 80s and 90s that still stands just reminds you that you can't be the best ever because of what's happened before. I would prefer to have mandatory testing a week or so before a major competition due to it because I knew:
A. I was completely clean.
B. Other people weren't. (one person flat out bragged about it.)

Blood doping, and this "team" sport are a completely different beast though


Yeah, I'm not a Lance apologist by any stretch. More just sick of hearing this sort of thing from every angle. First it was baseball, then it was cycling...I would be utterly unsurprised if it turns out ten years from now that Michael Phelps was doping, or Peyton Manning, or whomever. And I DO feel for the clean athletes. But it's kind of like the absurd fallacy that football players at major Div I schools are 'amateurs': when the problem reaches that sort of level of penetration, you either have to do a very very very thorough housecleaning, or rebuild the entire model from the ground up. And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.
 
2012-10-10 05:54:05 PM

whistleridge: t And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.


the problem with doping in sports was too many kids were dying after injecting steroids, so the US Senate stepped in and had these hearing which served it's purpose, kids stopped dying!

Many clean cyclist have won major races in the past and present- i'm happy!
 
2012-10-10 05:54:30 PM
I'm sure Lance's lawyers were not working for free. So it was either quit now or go broke.
 
2012-10-10 05:57:03 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.


Well that and being unable to close facilities in any bumble fark little town, because granny is a afraid that tiny speck of a shiathole will no longer be listed on maps. Or raise rates to cover the actual cost of doing business. Or reduce staff by anything other then attrition and/or retirement.
 
2012-10-10 05:58:24 PM

whistleridge: thecpt: whistleridge: Honest question: considering just how many people dope in cycling, what's the point of this sort of thing? Weren't pretty much every rider in the top 10 of all the races he won doping? Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery? Or are they really going to try and dig deep and find the 3 honest men in each peloton and award them the yellow, even though they 'finished' 23rd or whatever?

I use to throw (shot put) competitively so I can only somewhat relate in the fact that it really sucks and makes you feel awful. Every record from the 80s and 90s that still stands just reminds you that you can't be the best ever because of what's happened before. I would prefer to have mandatory testing a week or so before a major competition due to it because I knew:
A. I was completely clean.
B. Other people weren't. (one person flat out bragged about it.)

Blood doping, and this "team" sport are a completely different beast though

Yeah, I'm not a Lance apologist by any stretch. More just sick of hearing this sort of thing from every angle. First it was baseball, then it was cycling...I would be utterly unsurprised if it turns out ten years from now that Michael Phelps was doping, or Peyton Manning, or whomever. And I DO feel for the clean athletes. But it's kind of like the absurd fallacy that football players at major Div I schools are 'amateurs': when the problem reaches that sort of level of penetration, you either have to do a very very very thorough housecleaning, or rebuild the entire model from the ground up. And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.


No. Manadatory drug testing before every professional game, every college game, and if you fail even once lifetime ban.
 
2012-10-10 05:58:28 PM

whistleridge: Doesn't this just mean he was still the best, and they're just bitter of his mastery?


Certainly not. What does jealousy have to do with it anyway? Why should we let the guy who gained the most get off scot free when everyone else got busted? He's a bully who blackballed anyone who dared question him and destroyed lives and sued into oblivion anyone who called him on his bullshiat. fark Lance Armstrong. Dude wouldn't waste his piss on a flaming cancer patient without a camera running or a PR flack to document his 'altruism'.

/F-R-A-U-D
 
2012-10-10 05:59:09 PM

Slaves2Darkness: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Actually the US Postal Service is pretty amazing. If they weren't being forced by Congress to set aside 30 years of pensions for people they haven't even hired yet, they'd be fine financially, as well.


Well that and being unable to close facilities in any bumble fark little town, because granny is a afraid that tiny speck of a shiathole will no longer be listed on maps. Or raise rates to cover the actual cost of doing business. Or reduce staff by anything other then attrition and/or retirement.


stick to the topic, LANCE and his pousse CHEATED!
 
2012-10-10 06:00:07 PM
They make boxing sound respectable.
 
2012-10-10 06:02:31 PM

expobill: whistleridge: t And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.

the problem with doping in sports was too many kids were dying after injecting steroids, so the US Senate stepped in and had these hearing which served it's purpose, kids stopped dying!

Many clean cyclist have won major races in the past and present- i'm happy!


It's one of the few times "Think of the CHILDREN!!!" is not overprotective hand wringing. If professionals are allowed to overtly embrace the use of performance enhancers, then college and high school athletes will be all over it. An adult making a semi-informed decision to trade better performance for their health is dumb, but somewhat justifiable, a kid doing the same is unacceptable in our society.
 
2012-10-10 06:05:08 PM

Relatively Obscure: The mail is goddamn awesome.


I never understood the post office hate. I'm still amazed that for less than 50 cents I can send a letter across the country in like 2 days
 
2012-10-10 06:05:39 PM

roc6783:

It's one of the few times "Think of the CHILDREN!!!" .

that is all i said during the 2005 baseball senate hearings when people were tired of hearing about that 24/7, these kids thought it was ok to use steroids way before then.
 
2012-10-10 06:06:34 PM

thecpt: Blood doping, and this "team" sport are a completely different beast though


What amazes me is that people still defend the tour victories despite the fact that even if you have your head in the sand and assume lance was clean his entire 'team' has now fessed up. Absolute best case scenario - lance armstrong is the most naive moron in the cycling world to not know he was being ferried up the alps by a team chock full of dopers. But even that's a fantasy - on team armstrong you did what captain lance commanded and the training regimen begins with a syringe and a bag of blood.
 
2012-10-10 06:08:18 PM

roc6783: expobill: whistleridge: t And I guess I feel like I'm increasingly in the the 'rebuild the model to incorporate doping' school. Kind of like pot: legalizse it, regulate it, and allow it, and it's no longer a scandal.

the problem with doping in sports was too many kids were dying after injecting steroids, so the US Senate stepped in and had these hearing which served it's purpose, kids stopped dying!

Many clean cyclist have won major races in the past and present- i'm happy!

It's one of the few times "Think of the CHILDREN!!!" is not overprotective hand wringing. If professionals are allowed to overtly embrace the use of performance enhancers, then college and high school athletes will be all over it. An adult making a semi-informed decision to trade better performance for their health is dumb, but somewhat justifiable, a kid doing the same is unacceptable in our society.


Is it bad that my primary reaction to this (meaning both this comment and the whole fuss about Lance) is 'meh'? Because it is. And I'm not trying to be inflammatory or anything. I just. don't. care. There are so many worse problems in the world than one dude in funny pants (or one subset of dudes in funny pants) taking something to ride a bike 5 minutes faster up a hill. I just can't bring myself to care one way or the other.
 
2012-10-10 06:10:54 PM
Where are the legions of 'never failed a test!' guys today?
 
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