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(ESPN)   It looks like Josh Hamilton picked the wrong week to quit chewing tobacco   (espn.go.com) divider line 74
    More: Misc, Josh Hamilton, Nolan Ryan, chewing tobacco, Rangers, point in time, Triple-A  
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4067 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Oct 2012 at 1:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-10 01:27:17 PM
Nolan has a future in politics with spin like that. Hamilton has a future quitting on another team. The Rangers should have traded him after his mid-season interview when he bashed everyone in the organization. Instead they let him become a problem in the clubhouse
 
2012-10-10 01:57:51 PM
Next year, fewer day games.
 
2012-10-10 02:02:25 PM
At least he didn't kill anybody this season.
 
2012-10-10 02:14:35 PM
Four at bats, eight pitches.

He's someone else's problem now, and I doubt fans in many other markets will be as kind to him as fans in Texas were.

To my recollection, with all his troubles and antics this year, he was only booed twice.

Yea, man. Bone For Tuna.
 
2012-10-10 02:14:56 PM
Three numbers to look at:

.577
.593
.577

One of those is Josh Hamilton's 2012 SLG. The other two are Michael Young's OPS (yes, OPS) in May and July. The Rangers didn't lose because Josh Hamilton brought the drama or pouted like a teenage girl. They lost because Michael Young hit like a teenage girl.
 
2012-10-10 02:18:15 PM

Rex_Banner: .577

One of those is Josh Hamilton's 2012 SLG. The other two are Michael Young's OPS (yes, OPS) in May and July. The Rangers didn't lose because Josh Hamilton brought the drama or pouted like a teenage girl. They lost because Michael Young hit like a teenage girl.


You think MY is getting off scott-free around here?

Also, let's not forget, if the A's don't have a once-in-a-lifetime year, we're not having this conversation. What the A's were able to do this year was mind blowing.
 
2012-10-10 02:18:59 PM

Slow To Return: You think MY is getting off scott-free around here?


Kinsler's getting destroyed, too.
 
2012-10-10 02:20:24 PM
Really? A crackhead proved unreliable? I am shocked....
 
2012-10-10 02:27:32 PM

Slow To Return: Rex_Banner: .577

One of those is Josh Hamilton's 2012 SLG. The other two are Michael Young's OPS (yes, OPS) in May and July. The Rangers didn't lose because Josh Hamilton brought the drama or pouted like a teenage girl. They lost because Michael Young hit like a teenage girl.

You think MY is getting off scott-free around here?

Also, let's not forget, if the A's don't have a once-in-a-lifetime year, we're not having this conversation. What the A's were able to do this year was mind blowing.


This. Gotta give props to the A's. Sure, the Rangers slowed down at the end of the season but Oakland stepped it up more so.

Also, without looking, you can probably find that the top 4 paid players on the Tigers & Yanks make more than the entire A's team.
 
2012-10-10 02:27:51 PM

Slow To Return: You think MY is getting off scott-free around here?

Also, let's not forget, if the A's don't have a once-in-a-lifetime year, we're not having this conversation. What the A's were able to do this year was mind blowing.


Well yeah, Oakland played very, very well down the stretch to make this happen. But seriously, replacing Young with an even semi-decent DH would have resulted in at least 1 more win and a berth in the ALDS. It would be a lot tougher to find someone who can play CF and mash like Hamilton did.
 
2012-10-10 02:29:12 PM

upndn: Also, without looking, you can probably find that the top 4 paid players on the Tigers & Yanks make more than the entire A's team.


You could probably do the same trick with player ages, too.
 
2012-10-10 02:40:15 PM

Slow To Return: Four at bats, eight pitches, five outs made.

He's someone else's problem now.


Amended. And This'd.

Rex_Banner: But seriously, replacing Young with an even semi-decent DH would have resulted in at least 1 more win and a berth in the ALDS.


Most even semi-knowledgeable fans of the Rangers realize this. And would welcome the change.

Slow To Return: Kinsler's getting destroyed, too.


As well he should. What's a shame is that Kinsler will be here for the long run, and Andrus will most likely get traded away.
 
2012-10-10 02:40:39 PM

Rex_Banner: mash like Hamilton did.


mash? What's that word mean? "To rub one's eyes after every strikeout"?

Yea, everyone knows it's going to be extremely difficult to replace Hamilton's bat, and it was actually a nice surprise that he managed to stay "healthy", by his standards, all year.

I like Josh, and I'll actually be sad to see him go. But here's where I find some solace. I think back to that four home run night back in May. How Elvis was just gushing, both during the game in the dugout, and after the game, in interviews, over Josh. Then, as Josh's year wears on, through his slump, his movie deal, his cafeine issues, whatever, you'd see Elvis, and the rest of the team, seemingly just going through the motions after a Josh home run or big hit. In the bottom of the ninth of the Wild Card game, Hamilton supposedly was the only Ranger on the bench when Murphy was at the plate with the bases loaded. He just seems so emotionally checked out on the Rangers and the fans, that it's hard to not just return the favor.
 
2012-10-10 02:44:21 PM
I think Kinsler gets traded this offseason.
 
2012-10-10 02:52:01 PM

Uncle Pooky: and Andrus will most likely get traded away.


That would be a shame ... Elvis made some really good progress this year, while Ian regressed.
 
2012-10-10 02:56:45 PM

Slow To Return: Uncle Pooky: and Andrus will most likely get traded away.

That would be a shame ... Elvis made some really good progress this year, while Ian regressed.


Totally agree. Why Andrus was not switched to leadoff remains one of the more baffling decisions Washington made this year.
 
2012-10-10 02:57:54 PM

happydude45: I think Kinsler gets traded this offseason.


I'm curious what his market value is right now. I'm sure (barring injury) he'll be 20+ HR guy for awhile, but he's now 30, so his speed and defensive range are only going to decline.
 
2012-10-10 02:59:34 PM

Slow To Return: He's someone else's problem now, and I doubt fans in many other markets will be as kind to him as fans in Texas were.


Slight threadjack: on the Ticket here in Dallas this morning, they were talking about where Josh Hamilton might end up, and one of the speakers said, as a long shot, Colorado, because "they run that team like a theocracy", and Josh is very religious.

As a Rockies fan, I'm not sure which is worse: that Josh Hamilton's bullshiat may be going to Colorado, or that the Rockies still run their organization like an arm of the church.
 
2012-10-10 03:04:17 PM

Killer Cars: happydude45: I think Kinsler gets traded this offseason.

I'm curious what his market value is right now. I'm sure (barring injury) he'll be 20+ HR guy for awhile, but he's now 30, so his speed and defensive range are only going to decline.


Keep in mind, he's making $15m a year for the next 5 years. I think that salary will scare a lot of people off.
 
2012-10-10 03:09:43 PM

tnpir: Slow To Return: He's someone else's problem now, and I doubt fans in many other markets will be as kind to him as fans in Texas were.

Slight threadjack: on the Ticket here in Dallas this morning, they were talking about where Josh Hamilton might end up, and one of the speakers said, as a long shot, Colorado, because "they run that team like a theocracy", and Josh is very religious.

As a Rockies fan, I'm not sure which is worse: that Josh Hamilton's bullshiat may be going to Colorado, or that the Rockies still run their organization like an arm of the church.


If only to push further threadjacking the rockies organization is a complete and total mess, but the resignation of Tracey and the hiring of a pitching coach? Guru, the High Cardinal of Throwing the horsehide? before the next manager doesnt really bode well as to how they org chart is shaping up. Speculation is any manager hired will answer to the pitching coach.
 
2012-10-10 03:19:09 PM
im curious as to what teams are looking at him.
my guess would be yanks and red sox. red sox could use a player like him.
 
2012-10-10 03:26:08 PM

Uncle Pooky: Keep in mind, he's making $15m a year for the next 5 years. I think that salary will scare a lot of people off.


That, and I can't really think of a contending team that will make a run for a pricey 2nd baseman.

Freakin Rican: red sox could use a player like him.


No thanks.
 
2012-10-10 03:30:17 PM
Actually, I take that back. I'm not sure the Dodgers have any problems with adding payroll and Mark Ellis, Dee Gordon, and now Nick Punto as well is not exactly a murderer's row of 2nd basemen.
 
2012-10-10 03:32:55 PM

happydude45: I think Kinsler gets traded this offseason.


Chances of that aren't very good unless the Rangers eat a sizable portion of his salary
 
2012-10-10 03:55:20 PM
24 comments and no "Airplane" references yet? With a headline like that??

You disappoint me, Farkers.
 
2012-10-10 03:57:56 PM

kiwannabee: 24 comments and no "Airplane" references yet? With a headline like that??

You disappoint me, Farkers.


This thread's getting laaaaarrrrrrrger
 
2012-10-10 04:09:29 PM
Baseball... tobacco... and yet... none of this?

cdn2.screenjunkies.com

Fail. Shame... you all play ball like a girl.
 
2012-10-10 04:12:01 PM
You're killing me, Mojo.
 
2012-10-10 04:12:29 PM

Killer Cars: Freakin Rican: red sox could use a player like him.

No thanks.


He's a good player when he's cleaned up and motivated. The problem is that he requires therapy, a chaperone, and an entire personal infrastructure that holds him accountable for every action, every place he goes, and for his entire schedule. As long as he has all of that, he holds up for about 362 days a year, and performs wonderfully during the season. Being a Rangers fan, it's been great to watch him clean up and work over the last four years, but it seems to be time for him to set up shop someplace else. The fans are done with him, and he's done with the organization. He can hit homeruns and dislocate his shoulder somewhere else.

Kins is harder. Everyone still loves him, even if his production has dropped off. Texas doesn't want to let him go, they want him to produce. He's friendly, great in the clubhouse, all of it. No one wants to see him go, but no one wants to see him stay at his current rate. I think it's similar with Cruz and Napoli.

Young is more of a memory at this point. People like what they remember, not what he is now. He's an institution, not a useful veteran. Pay him out and send him on his way. He's not exactly going to get any better.
 
2012-10-10 04:14:08 PM

kiwannabee: 24 comments and no "Airplane" references yet? With a headline like that??

You disappoint me, Farkers.


A headline! What is it?
 
2012-10-10 04:17:42 PM

FrancoFile: kiwannabee: 24 comments and no "Airplane" references yet? With a headline like that??

You disappoint me, Farkers.

A headline! What is it?


It's an short description of the main story meant to draw you in using humor, but that's not important right now.
 
2012-10-10 04:18:18 PM
Dammit. "a" instead of "an"
 
2012-10-10 04:20:34 PM
Josh Hamilton leaving the Rangers? I'm not sure what to make of this.
 
2012-10-10 04:21:54 PM
So the Rangers suck for a decade, get it together and have two straight huge years, then underachieve a bit one year with a down September, and everyone wants to blame the best players for not trying hard enough?

Guys slump sometimes. Sometimes it looks bad.

But enjoy your new wave of effort guys and losing while playing hard!
 
2012-10-10 04:26:58 PM

Dafatone: So the Rangers suck for a decade, get it together and have two straight huge years, then underachieve a bit one year with a down September, and everyone wants to blame the best players for not trying hard enough?

Guys slump sometimes. Sometimes it looks bad.

But enjoy your new wave of effort guys and losing while playing hard!


Was there a point anywhere in there?
 
2012-10-10 04:28:39 PM

Minarets: It's an short description of the main story meant to draw you in using humor, but that's not important right now.


Surely you're being sarcastic
 
2012-10-10 04:29:11 PM

kiwannabee: 24 comments and no "Airplane" references yet? With a headline like that??

You disappoint me, Farkers.


i had lasagna



amidoinitrite
 
2012-10-10 04:35:30 PM

Khellendros: Killer Cars: Freakin Rican: red sox could use a player like him.

No thanks.

He's a good player when he's cleaned up and motivated. The problem is that he requires therapy, a chaperone, and an entire personal infrastructure that holds him accountable for every action, every place he goes, and for his entire schedule. As long as he has all of that, he holds up for about 362 days a year, and performs wonderfully during the season. Being a Rangers fan, it's been great to watch him clean up and work over the last four years, but it seems to be time for him to set up shop someplace else. The fans are done with him, and he's done with the organization. He can hit homeruns and dislocate his shoulder somewhere else.


High performance/Extremely high maintenance and, just like even a supermodel, you get tired of his shiat eventually. You don't want to be the team that finds him OD'd in his locker some morning.

Kins is harder. Everyone still loves him, even if his production has dropped off. Texas doesn't want to let him go, they want him to produce. He's friendly, great in the clubhouse, all of it. No one wants to see him go, but no one wants to see him stay at his current rate. I think it's similar with Cruz and Napoli.

Napoli is an unrestricted FA, so his case is a little different.

Young is more of a memory at this point. People like what they remember, not what he is now. He's an institution, not a useful veteran. Pay him out and send him on his way. He's not exactly going to get any better.

He got 611 AB in 156 games; he needs to be getting about half that many...at most. As a utility guy, he's decent, but not at $16 million again in 2013.
 
2012-10-10 04:36:25 PM

Uncle Pooky: Dafatone: So the Rangers suck for a decade, get it together and have two straight huge years, then underachieve a bit one year with a down September, and everyone wants to blame the best players for not trying hard enough?

Guys slump sometimes. Sometimes it looks bad.

But enjoy your new wave of effort guys and losing while playing hard!

Was there a point anywhere in there?


That maybe blowing up the team because of one underachieving season doesn't make sense.

Okay, so Hamilton's leaving.

Kinsler had a down year. But he wasn't terrible, just not very good. Doesn't mean he has to be traded, even if people didn't like his "effort." Cruz and Napoli had down years as well, but this doesn't mean they're going to have them in the future (Napoli wasn't going to hit anywhere close to his 2011 numbers, and managed to draw enough walks and hit for enough power to be somewhat productive.) The fact that Michael Young got 651 terrible plate appearances was the team's biggest problem, but fan favorites don't get blamed. Young hit well in September, which someone is probably going to say "makes up for" the whole season, but it doesn't work that way.

But trading away all the guys that led to successful years doesn't make sense. The Rangers scored the most runs in the AL and gave up the 9th most runs. Fix the pitching (and the fielding, where Kinsler was somewhat of a problem, true.)

It bothers me to see people blame the most visible players, rather than what actually wasn't working.
 
2012-10-10 04:47:55 PM

TheOther: At least he didn't kill anybody this season.


Looks like Nana's Vibrator has created an alt.

Uncle Pooky: Slow To Return: Uncle Pooky: and Andrus will most likely get traded away.

That would be a shame ... Elvis made some really good progress this year, while Ian regressed.

Totally agree. Why Andrus was not switched to leadoff remains one of the more baffling decisions Washington made this year.


It's all about perceived value, man. Kinsler had an off year/came back to earth in 2012 while Andrus progressed. I think it's more likely that Cruz is traded. Pretty friendly salary & Texas is fairly deep in the outfield. That would give you Murphy in LF, Gentry in CF and Kinsler in RF with Martin as your 4th outfielder. Profar plays 2B & Andrus stays at SS.

Why Andrus was not switched to leadoff remains one of the more baffling decisions Washington made this year.

Agreed. Equally as baffling to me is why he didn't play Martin & Profar more off the bench late in the season. I realize that Wash didn't have a lot to work with off the bench for the better part of 3/4 of the season with Gonzales, Snyder & Torrealba, but when you bring those kids of top prospects up from the farm, you gotta play 'em! I mean, Profar only homered in his first at-bat & when he was put in in the 9th on Friday, he immediately got on base.
 
2012-10-10 04:55:43 PM

Dafatone: That maybe blowing up the team because of one underachieving season doesn't make sense.

Okay, so Hamilton's leaving.

Kinsler had a down year. But he wasn't terrible, just not very good. Doesn't mean he has to be traded, even if people didn't like his "effort."


No, he certainly doesn't have to be traded, but he should be handled better. And that's on the manager.

Dafatone: Cruz and Napoli had down years as well, but this doesn't mean they're going to have them in the future (Napoli wasn't going to hit anywhere close to his 2011 numbers, and managed to draw enough walks and hit for enough power to be somewhat productive.)


This is where I disagree. I don't think Napoli and Cruz had "down" years. I think they had years appropriate to their skill level. I don't think resigning Napoli or Cruz gets you any better (and if you want to make your "fan favorite" argument, you'd be better off starting with those two rather than Michael Young).

Dafatone: The fact that Michael Young got 651 terrible plate appearances was the team's biggest problem, but fan favorites don't get blamed. Young hit well in September, which someone is probably going to say "makes up for" the whole season, but it doesn't work that way.


Not sure which Rangers fans you're hearing from, but 100% of the Rangers fans I know (granted, they are all knowledgeable of the sport as a whole) hold Michael Young (or more accurately, management) accountable for his play and position in the lineup. None of us wanted him in the lineup, but he was in it all the same. Trust me, we all know that Young was a huge issue.

Dafatone: But trading away all the guys that led to successful years doesn't make sense. The Rangers scored the most runs in the AL and gave up the 9th most runs. Fix the pitching (and the fielding, where Kinsler was somewhat of a problem, true.)


It does if they are no longer able to lead to more successful years.

Dafatone: It bothers me to see people blame the most visible players, rather than what actually wasn't working.


Even if you remove the "blame" factor in relation to Josh Hamilton, the fact is that re-signing him would handcuff the team financially.
 
2012-10-10 05:01:18 PM
Josh Hamilton may not be clean off the field, but that man has the cleanest heart I've ever known.

I love you Joshy-poo...
 
2012-10-10 05:08:22 PM

4NTLRZ: I think it's more likely that Cruz is traded. Pretty friendly salary & Texas is fairly deep in the outfield. That would give you Murphy in LF, Gentry in CF and Kinsler in RF with Martin as your 4th outfielder. Profar plays 2B & Andrus stays at SS.

Agreed. Equally as baffling to me is why he didn't play Martin & Profar more off the bench late in the season. I realize that Wash didn't have a lot to work with off the bench for the better part of 3/4 of the season with Gonzales, Snyder & Torrealba, but when you bring those kids of top prospects up from the farm, you gotta play 'em! I mean, Profar only homered in his first at-bat & when he was put in in the 9th on Friday, he immediately got on base.


The mere mention of trading Cruz usually earns me scorn from my fellow Rangers fans, but I honestly think he's gone as far as he can go here. There's no doubt he's pretty much the reason they win the 2011 ALCS, but that was 2011. Can't really sign the guy to a 4 year, 40+ million deal from one 6-game series. I say get something for him while you can, and plug someone else in RF who's better defensively with similar offensive numbers.

As for why Martin and Profar didn't play more, I fully chalk that up to the inmates running the asylum. Case in point: Beltre telling Washington when and where he was playing at the end of the season with his shoulder issues. Wash even admitted he didn't rest the regulars as much as he should have. Hopefully this season was a wake up call and he takes back the reigns in 2013.
 
2012-10-10 05:16:00 PM

Rex_Banner: Slow To Return: You think MY is getting off scott-free around here?

Also, let's not forget, if the A's don't have a once-in-a-lifetime year, we're not having this conversation. What the A's were able to do this year was mind blowing.

Well yeah, Oakland played very, very well down the stretch to make this happen. But seriously, replacing Young with an even semi-decent DH would have resulted in at least 1 more win and a berth in the ALDS. It would be a lot tougher to find someone who can play CF and mash like Hamilton did.


Find someone? That's easy - check in Anaheim. Now, getting said person from Anaheim to Arlington without committing a felony or three, or giving up most of your team and farm system in return, that will be the tough part.

Plus when your *wife* is telling the media that you won't take a hometown discount, you've basically already packed up.
 
2012-10-10 05:31:40 PM

Dafatone: So the Rangers suck for a the better part of four decades **snip*


FTFY
 
2012-10-10 05:40:02 PM
You're damn right he quit on us, but Nolan can't say that because he's gotta make a sale.

And after skimming the thread, I'd just like to say that I agree with the person who said it doesn't make sense to dismantle the team after a disappointing playoff run (if one game amounts to a run... meh). It's really tough for Rangers fans NOT to have a bad taste in our mouths after that ending, but I think it's important to look at the big picture. It was a great year that went nowhere. After DECADES of mediocrity & shame, we finally have a great team and its just a biiiiiiiiiiiit early to get spoiled.

We've got no one to blame but ourselves. The A's played great there at the end & they deserve every bit of playoff glory they can muster. That being said, if they blow this, I will hate them forever. You've come this far, DON'T FARK IT UP, jerks.

Also, the Rangers have to make room for Profar somewhere on the field, but not at 2B. If the Rangers somehow *gasp* deal Kinsler away, I will riot. He has been my favorite player since he came here in 2006 for a variety of reasons & he needs to retire a Ranger. I shan't have it any other way! So it has been declared....
 
2012-10-10 05:44:29 PM

Uncle Pooky: No, he certainly doesn't have to be traded, but he should be handled better. And that's on the manager.


Agreed. But if he's staying at 2B, he's not a bad value (not really a good one, either) locked up for a long time. Hard guy to predict.

Uncle Pooky: This is where I disagree. I don't think Napoli and Cruz had "down" years. I think they had years appropriate to their skill level. I don't think resigning Napoli or Cruz gets you any better (and if you want to make your "fan favorite" argument, you'd be better off starting with those two rather than Michael Young).


I agree on Cruz, but I think Napoli's better than he hit last year. Cruz (as is a common theme with Rangers players) is a tough guy to predict based on past results. Injury prone with flashes of brilliance. Napoli, on the other hand, has shown himself to be at least a slightly better hitter (putting up similar numbers with a better average in a much tougher park with the Angels). I figure he can pull his average/obp up at least a little, though he'll be nowhere near 2011.

Uncle Pooky: Not sure which Rangers fans you're hearing from, but 100% of the Rangers fans I know (granted, they are all knowledgeable of the sport as a whole) hold Michael Young (or more accurately, management) accountable for his play and position in the lineup. None of us wanted him in the lineup, but he was in it all the same. Trust me, we all know that Young was a huge issue.


I'll admit I'm stereotyping based on things I've read in this thread, but it sounds like the un-knowledgeable fans (and every fan base has them) is ranting about the lazy superstars like Hamilton or Kinsler not pulling their weight.

As to resigning Hamilton, yeah, throwing lots of cash at him doesn't make sense. If I'm the Rangers, I'd keep an eye out, just cause maybe everyone agrees with this and he winds up going for a sensible deal. 4-5 years or so, and then maybe the Rangers stay in. But probably not.

I just get oversensitive to listening to people act like one bad September means "let's blow up the team!"

/It's worst in the NBA, where losing in the finals brings a horde of "what piece was this team missing!" articles.
 
2012-10-10 05:47:04 PM

Uncle Pooky: Dafatone: **snip** Dafatone: Cruz and Napoli had down years as well, but this doesn't mean they're going to have them in the future (Napoli wasn't going to hit anywhere close to his 2011 numbers, and managed to draw enough walks and hit for enough power to be somewhat productive.)

This is where I disagree. I don't think Napoli and Cruz had "down" years. I think they had years appropriate to their skill level. I don't think resigning Napoli or Cruz gets you any better (and if you want to make your "fan favorite" argument, you'd be better off starting with those two rather than Michael Young).


There's a problem with that statement regarding Napoli, Pook. While I agree that both he and Cruz had seasons that were on par with their talent level (they neither over nor under-performed), you really can't let Napoli get away this off-season. At least not unless they can pick up another catcher this winter. Or, they wait until next year when either Alfaro (who is in Class-A Hickory, IIRC) or Mendonca are ready to come up.
 
2012-10-10 05:58:30 PM

Di Atribe: **SNIP**
Also, the Rangers have to make room for Profar somewhere on the field, but not at 2B. If the Rangers somehow *gasp* deal Kinsler away, I will riot. He has been my favorite player since he came here in 2006 for a variety of reasons & he needs to retire a Ranger. I shan't have it any other way! So it has been declared....


Why wouldn't they want Profar at second, Di? It's the easier of the two middle-infield positions to play.

If they deal Andrus, Kinsler stays put at 2B & Profar plays at short next year.
If they keep Elivs, Kinsler moves to RF and Profar takes over 2B.
 
2012-10-10 06:00:34 PM

Uncle Pooky: 4NTLRZ: Hopefully this season was a wake up call and he takes back the reigns in 2013.


Oh, so fuggin' much of ^THIS^!!!
 
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