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(The Eagle Tribune)   Catholics celebrate 50 years of able to understand what the priest is saying   (eagletribune.com) divider line 90
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2800 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Oct 2012 at 11:52 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-10 02:08:18 PM

Longtime Lurker: Even as sosmeone who spent most of my childhood in catholic schools, it just seemed like the church is going off the deep end. The lobby was filled with literature about the "threat to religious freedom" and the birth control issue and "defending marriage".


Going off the deep end? It sounds more like, if they proclaim to actually believe these things, they are really defending their beliefs. Good for them. It's always better for people to back up what they say they believe than just doing what puts butts in the seats. If it's something you don't believe, then move on to somewhere you agree with.
 
2012-10-10 02:37:17 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Well, it's well known that Darth/Pope Palpatine hated everything about Vatican II, and thought JP2 was a sellout in that regard. So, a push to revert to "old ways" would not surprise some out there.


They are trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle. (No euphemism there.) It's all a fruitless effort, though, like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The whole Church will fail without a miraculous increase in priests in the next 5 years. At least here in the US.
 
2012-10-10 02:45:47 PM

downstairs: Crewmannumber6: downstairs: The Catholic Church use to be known for specifically not being all that political.

When exactly was that? Not when Constatine 'converted' to christianity just in time to field a massive army for a decisive battle. Not during the dark ages when non priests were not allowed to have a bible or know how to read it if they did. Not the Spanish Inquisition (yes I know what I've just done). Not when married priests were eliminated because the church wanted ancestral lands to pass to them and not through families. The catholic church has been one the world's most influential political powers since its inception, which is pretty much why it is so thoroughly corrupt.

Not saying they didn't practice politics behind the scenes... but when I was a kid, raised Catholic in the 1980s... we never heard about things like abortion, or any political speech during mass, in school, or in CCD.
 
I've mentioned this before here and a bunch of Farkers... most likely near my age... have backed me up on this.


I never heard a single homily on abortion until about a decade ago. And even then, it was more in the vein of a matter of faith, not politics (i.e., lots of mentions of it as a sin, nothing about any legal issues). And for the handful I have heard on that topic, I have heard far more on the topics of social justice, against the death penalty, against war, and so on and so forth.
 
2012-10-10 02:46:19 PM
With their cookie-cutter franchises, the Catholic church paved the way for McDonald's and Subway.
 
2012-10-10 02:55:55 PM

MrEricSir: With their cookie-cutter franchises, the Catholic church paved the way for McDonald's and Subway.


Did you have your McWafer Happy Meal today?
 
2012-10-10 03:01:22 PM
....and 1500 years of pedophilia.
 
2012-10-10 03:44:39 PM
i.imgur.com

B-b-b-b-b-but the Church NEVER changes policy. Because TRADITION!
 
2012-10-10 04:03:45 PM

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 641x373]


Not exactly.

"The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent)." Study conducted by Harvard University. Link
 
2012-10-10 04:05:48 PM

Longtime Lurker: I set foot in a catholic church for the first time in a couple years last weekend for a wedding. Even as sosmeone who spent most of my childhood in catholic schools, it just seemed like the church is going off the deep end. The lobby was filled with literature about the "threat to religious freedom" and the birth control issue and "defending marriage". Admittedly this wasn't the church my family went to as a kid, but social politics were pretty much absent.


where were you? In the last 2 years I've been to two full catholic weddings, wedding+mass, in FL and San Diego and saw none of that.
 
2012-10-10 04:08:02 PM

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 641x373]

B-b-b-b-b-but the Church NEVER changes policy. Because TRADITION!


That whole Chic-fil-A thing is more of an thing among Evangelicals, who aren't exactly fond of "papists." Just so you know.

Not that you care.

And I have seen Catholics line up before dawn on Christmas to open soup kitchens and have been one those folks working the soup kitchen. If you'd like to help out some time, we're always happy to have an extra set of hands. Just let me know. You seem like the kind of guy that likes to lead by doing and wouldn't just consider posting comments on the internet real help.
 
2012-10-10 04:38:49 PM

neversubmit: What part of "I'm going to nail your underage son on the alter" do they not get?


They wanted to replace the old, outdated image of nailing someone's 33 year old son on a cross.
 
2012-10-10 04:39:13 PM

downstairs: Crewmannumber6: downstairs: The Catholic Church use to be known for specifically not being all that political.

When exactly was that? Not when Constatine 'converted' to christianity just in time to field a massive army for a decisive battle. Not during the dark ages when non priests were not allowed to have a bible or know how to read it if they did. Not the Spanish Inquisition (yes I know what I've just done). Not when married priests were eliminated because the church wanted ancestral lands to pass to them and not through families. The catholic church has been one the world's most influential political powers since its inception, which is pretty much why it is so thoroughly corrupt.

Not saying they didn't practice politics behind the scenes... but when I was a kid, raised Catholic in the 1980s... we never heard about things like abortion, or any political speech during mass, in school, or in CCD.
 
I've mentioned this before here and a bunch of Farkers... most likely near my age... have backed me up on this.


Put me down for another (former) catholic who never heard anything political in church or CCD. Although, to be fair, I did quit the church at a young age. Possibly before they started their political drilling??
 
2012-10-10 05:02:16 PM
How hard is it to understand "don't tell your parents"?
 
2012-10-10 05:04:11 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: where were you? In the last 2 years I've been to two full catholic weddings, wedding+mass, in FL and San Diego and saw none of that.


I've noticed it in the few times I've been to mass over the years for various occasions. Most notably was the mass I was at this past weekend for a baptism. Divorce, abortion, gay marriage, chastity. They hit 'em all.

I would guess that they keep a lot of that kind of talk out of wedding ceremonies.
 
rpm
2012-10-10 05:07:12 PM

dabbletech: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 641x373]

Not exactly.

"The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent)." Study conducted by Harvard University. Link


What is it once you take out tithing (at least the percentage that doesn't go to charity)?
 
2012-10-10 05:07:29 PM

neversubmit: What part of "I'm going to nail your underage son on the alter" do they not get?


Hail Sanduskyu
 
2012-10-10 05:16:36 PM

rpm: dabbletech: weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 641x373]

Not exactly.

"The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent)." Study conducted by Harvard University. Link

What is it once you take out tithing (at least the percentage that doesn't go to charity)?


I dunno, but I doubt that it would change it much. One study said that only 5% of adults tithe. Only 12% of people who had prayed, read the Bible and attended church in the previous week tithed. Link
 
2012-10-10 05:19:47 PM
For those who do not remember the political involvement of the Church when they were younger:
With the advent of "the Pill" in the sixties, the Roman Catholic Church officially answered with the writings of John Courtney Murray S.J.. Murray explained that it had been the position of the Church not to push for legislation of morality in the world's many legal systems. He argued that outlawing activities the church may find "sinful" essentially removed any piety from one's choices. Citing that the Lord Himself deemed us worthy of free will and that obeying man's law is not an ethical decision.
It is not so much the Church as it is mundane politickers and ignorant Church members (or members of other religions) that try to put our piety under the jurisdiction of the State.
 
2012-10-10 05:27:49 PM

chopit: stpauler: fark THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Indeed.


sign in ? indeed...................
 
2012-10-10 05:32:25 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: OtherLittleGuy: Somewhat. Last Decenber, they changed the wording to reflect language that is reminiscent of pre-Vatican II ("through my fault, through my fault, through my grievious fault" among others).

Every time they do that in mass, I'm reminded of Matthew 6:5, where Jesus reminds us not to call attention to ourselves when we pray, but rather to pray in silence, in our rooms. Chanting "it's all my fault" while beating your chest seems to go against that idea.

I also took note of this other change: "and on earth, peace to people of good will", instead of "peace to all people on earth". Wishing peace to "those of good will" naturally implies that there are some who are not deserving of said wish for peace. Last time I checked, Jesus made no such distinctions in his ministry.


You must defer to religious scholars in matters such as this. They have the proper training to be able to understand the true meaning. Who do you think you are?
 
2012-10-10 05:36:45 PM

Bruxellensis: downstairs: Crewmannumber6: downstairs: The Catholic Church use to be known for specifically not being all that political.

When exactly was that? Not when Constatine 'converted' to christianity just in time to field a massive army for a decisive battle. Not during the dark ages when non priests were not allowed to have a bible or know how to read it if they did. Not the Spanish Inquisition (yes I know what I've just done). Not when married priests were eliminated because the church wanted ancestral lands to pass to them and not through families. The catholic church has been one the world's most influential political powers since its inception, which is pretty much why it is so thoroughly corrupt.

Not saying they didn't practice politics behind the scenes... but when I was a kid, raised Catholic in the 1980s... we never heard about things like abortion, or any political speech during mass, in school, or in CCD.
 
I've mentioned this before here and a bunch of Farkers... most likely near my age... have backed me up on this.

Put me down for another (former) catholic who never heard anything political in church or CCD. Although, to be fair, I did quit the church at a young age. Possibly before they started their political drilling??


I suspect that what happened was a vicious spiral beginning in the late 80's and early 90's, where the sex abuse scandals were just starting to come to light, pushing moderates elsewhere. The remaining somewhat fundamentalist types (at least by the standards back then) began to focus less on charity and more on dogma and politics, pushing out more who disagreed. Repeat until now, where a handful of elderly priests and parishioners are left, with young people who grew up seeing the Roman Catholic's hypocrisy on sexuality, birth control, etc.

I was raised RC, none of my siblings or I attend church unless someone's getting married or buried. We got sick of seeing less soup kitchens and blankets for the homeless and more 'burn the gays and nonbelievers' as we grew up and left.
 
2012-10-10 05:39:12 PM

Nabb1: That whole Chic-fil-A thing is more of an thing among Evangelicals, who aren't exactly fond of "papists." Just so you know.


so then the catholic church is for gay marriage? does it promote homosexuality as admirable lifestyle as well? because that is what the Chick-fil-A "thing" was about

Nabb1: And I have seen Catholics line up before dawn on Christmas to open soup kitchens and have been one those folks working the soup kitchen.


have you seen any protestants line up to open soup kitchens? because you don't seem to care enough to point that out to him, though you took the time and effort to point out that those aren't catholics pictured in his post...

Not that you care.
 
2012-10-10 06:17:39 PM

I drunk what: so then the catholic church is for gay marriage?


You just have to wait until you go to heaven. Then you can have all the gay sex you want.
 
2012-10-10 06:21:15 PM

Ronin_S: suspect that what happened was a vicious spiral beginning in the late 80's and early 90's, where the sex abuse scandals were just starting to come to light, pushing moderates elsewhere. The remaining somewhat fundamentalist types (at least by the standards back then) began to focus less on charity and more on dogma and politics, pushing out more who disagreed. Repeat until now, where a handful of elderly priests and parishioners are left, with young people who grew up seeing the Roman Catholic's hypocrisy on sexuality, birth control, etc.



Could be for sure.  I've only visited a Catholic church once since the 1980s, and that was to get OK'ed to be a godfather to my nephew.  The priest there was a very cool guy.  Sat there chain smoking Marlboro Reds in the rectory. 
 
2012-10-10 06:23:56 PM

downstairs: Ronin_S: suspect that what happened was a vicious spiral beginning in the late 80's and early 90's, where the sex abuse scandals were just starting to come to light, pushing moderates elsewhere. The remaining somewhat fundamentalist types (at least by the standards back then) began to focus less on charity and more on dogma and politics, pushing out more who disagreed. Repeat until now, where a handful of elderly priests and parishioners are left, with young people who grew up seeing the Roman Catholic's hypocrisy on sexuality, birth control, etc.


Could be for sure.  I've only visited a Catholic church once since the 1980s, and that was to get OK'ed to be a godfather to my nephew.  The priest there was a very cool guy.  Sat there chain smoking Marlboro Reds in the rectory.


He just had his knobbed polished and needed a smoke.
 
2012-10-10 06:58:07 PM

Ronin_S: I suspect that what happened was a vicious spiral beginning in the late 80's and early 90's, where the sex abuse scandals were just starting to come to light, pushing moderates elsewhere. The remaining somewhat fundamentalist types (at least by the standards back then) began to focus less on charity and more on dogma and politics, pushing out more who disagreed. Repeat until now, where a handful of elderly priests and parishioners are left, with young people who grew up seeing the Roman Catholic's hypocrisy on sexuality, birth control, etc.

I was raised RC, none of my siblings or I attend church unless someone's getting married or buried. We got sick of seeing less soup kitchens and blankets for the homeless and more 'burn the gays and nonbelievers' as we grew up and left.


I see. Perhaps it's a regional thing, or even varies from church to church? I grew up in a fairly progressive area (our RC priest had an earring if that tells you anything), so maybe my experience wasn't typical. Either way, I left and never turned back. Not because of my church in specific, but because of THE RC church. Plus I started to doubt the whole religion thing at a very young age.
 
2012-10-10 07:26:06 PM

Longtime Lurker: I set foot in a catholic church for the first time in a couple years last weekend for a wedding. Even as sosmeone who spent most of my childhood in catholic schools, it just seemed like the church is going off the deep end. The lobby was filled with literature about the "threat to religious freedom" and the birth control issue and "defending marriage". Admittedly this wasn't the church my family went to as a kid, but social politics were pretty much absent.

Even my catholic high school has changed in the ten years since I went there. I've talked to teachers there who've said the diocese is becoming very top-down in running the place, leading to a lot of conflict. When I went there the place was pretty much an academically rigorous school that happened to be catholic by affiliation. It was basically known for being the only good school in Flint, MI. Now the sports teams aren't allowed to have practices or meets on Sundays, are required to have crosses displayed on every team's jersey, and weekly mass is mandatory. They also fired all the religion teachers unless they paid to get a masters in theology. Most just quit instead.


Powers?
 
2012-10-10 07:42:36 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Well, it's well known that Darth/Pope Palpatine hated everything about Vatican II, and thought JP2 was a sellout in that regard. So, a push to revert to "old ways" would not surprise some out there.


Benedict XVI is angling to become the greatest Pope of the 15th Century.
 
2012-10-10 07:54:45 PM

stpauler: My SO is Catholic. We received a letter in the mail a couple days ago from Archbishop Nienstedt.

It opens:
Peace be with you. We write with the urgent request that you join us on November 6 in voting "Yes" to pass the Minnesota Marriage Protection Amendment.

And goes on to twist the truth:
The marriage amendment is an affirmation of, and our chance to say "yes" to, the beautiful gift of marriage that God has given all of us; it is not against anyone.

On top of that, the archbishop has paid $650,000 to push this through.

So, five words for them:

fark THE CATHOLIC CHURCH


what a little hypocrite you are. enjoy your relationship with your Catholic SO.
 
2012-10-10 08:32:52 PM

KrispyKritter: stpauler: My SO is Catholic. We received a letter in the mail a couple days ago from Archbishop Nienstedt.

It opens:
Peace be with you. We write with the urgent request that you join us on November 6 in voting "Yes" to pass the Minnesota Marriage Protection Amendment.

And goes on to twist the truth:
The marriage amendment is an affirmation of, and our chance to say "yes" to, the beautiful gift of marriage that God has given all of us; it is not against anyone.

On top of that, the archbishop has paid $650,000 to push this through.

So, five words for them:

fark THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

what a little hypocrite you are. enjoy your relationship with your Catholic SO.


I don't know. Maybe the SO just rounded 40.
 
2012-10-10 09:15:44 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: Longtime Lurker: I set foot in a catholic church for the first time in a couple years last weekend for a wedding. Even as sosmeone who spent most of my childhood in catholic schools, it just seemed like the church is going off the deep end. The lobby was filled with literature about the "threat to religious freedom" and the birth control issue and "defending marriage". Admittedly this wasn't the church my family went to as a kid, but social politics were pretty much absent.

where were you? In the last 2 years I've been to two full catholic weddings, wedding+mass, in FL and San Diego and saw none of that.


Charlotte. I guess a church in Carolina needs to try to out-crazy the other evangelical churches in the area to keep membership up.
 
2012-10-10 09:19:17 PM

LibertyHiller: Longtime Lurker: I set foot in a catholic church for the first time in a couple years last weekend for a wedding. Even as sosmeone who spent most of my childhood in catholic schools, it just seemed like the church is going off the deep end. The lobby was filled with literature about the "threat to religious freedom" and the birth control issue and "defending marriage". Admittedly this wasn't the church my family went to as a kid, but social politics were pretty much absent.

Even my catholic high school has changed in the ten years since I went there. I've talked to teachers there who've said the diocese is becoming very top-down in running the place, leading to a lot of conflict. When I went there the place was pretty much an academically rigorous school that happened to be catholic by affiliation. It was basically known for being the only good school in Flint, MI. Now the sports teams aren't allowed to have practices or meets on Sundays, are required to have crosses displayed on every team's jersey, and weekly mass is mandatory. They also fired all the religion teachers unless they paid to get a masters in theology. Most just quit instead.

Powers?


The one and only. I suppose they did win a state football championship last year and are #1 in the state this year with the cross on the jersey where the names used to be, but still the place acts like they won't want to get their enrollment back.
 
2012-10-10 09:21:35 PM

Longtime Lurker: Uchiha_Cycliste: Longtime Lurker: I set foot in a catholic church for the first time in a couple years last weekend for a wedding. Even as sosmeone who spent most of my childhood in catholic schools, it just seemed like the church is going off the deep end. The lobby was filled with literature about the "threat to religious freedom" and the birth control issue and "defending marriage". Admittedly this wasn't the church my family went to as a kid, but social politics were pretty much absent.

where were you? In the last 2 years I've been to two full catholic weddings, wedding+mass, in FL and San Diego and saw none of that.

Charlotte. I guess a church in Carolina needs to try to out-crazy the other evangelical churches in the area to keep membership up.


I reckon. =/
 
2012-10-10 09:22:12 PM

KrispyKritter:
what a little hypocrite you are. enjoy your relationship with your Catholic SO.

please explain how that would make me a hypocrite. I've got a hunch you don't understand what the word means but I'm giving you a little benefit of the doubt here.
 
2012-10-11 12:49:29 AM

rvesco: Amabam eam melius Latine


Placet melius Latine

FIFM
 
2012-10-11 04:48:37 AM

WalMartian: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Well, it's well known that Darth/Pope Palpatine hated everything about Vatican II, and thought JP2 was a sellout in that regard. So, a push to revert to "old ways" would not surprise some out there.

They are trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle. (No euphemism there.) It's all a fruitless effort, though, like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The whole Church will fail without a miraculous increase in priests in the next 5 years. At least here in the US.


lol wut?
 
2012-10-11 07:34:18 AM

dittybopper: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Last time I checked, Jesus made no such distinctions in his ministry.

Soon I discovered that this rock thing was true. Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil. Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a profit. All of a sudden I found myself in love with the World, so there was only one thing I could do: Was ding-a-dang-dong my dang-a-long-ling-long.


Amen!

Serious question, can any Catholic please explain why this instruction from the Lord is so blatantly ignored?

Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
 
2012-10-11 12:06:22 PM

Fish_Fight!: WalMartian: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Well, it's well known that Darth/Pope Palpatine hated everything about Vatican II, and thought JP2 was a sellout in that regard. So, a push to revert to "old ways" would not surprise some out there.

They are trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle. (No euphemism there.) It's all a fruitless effort, though, like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The whole Church will fail without a miraculous increase in priests in the next 5 years. At least here in the US.

lol wut?


There are not enough priests left to keep the churches going. There are not enough pending ordinations to make up for the number of priest who are either dying, retiring, or leaving the priesthood. At this point, it would take a miracle to create enough new priests to keep the Church as a whole from suffering closure after closure of churches. At least here in the US.

We can't ordain married men or, God forbid, women, so the choices are very limited.
 
2012-10-11 12:42:19 PM

WalMartian: Fish_Fight!: WalMartian: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Well, it's well known that Darth/Pope Palpatine hated everything about Vatican II, and thought JP2 was a sellout in that regard. So, a push to revert to "old ways" would not surprise some out there.

They are trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle. (No euphemism there.) It's all a fruitless effort, though, like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The whole Church will fail without a miraculous increase in priests in the next 5 years. At least here in the US.

lol wut?

There are not enough priests left to keep the churches going. There are not enough pending ordinations to make up for the number of priest who are either dying, retiring, or leaving the priesthood. At this point, it would take a miracle to create enough new priests to keep the Church as a whole from suffering closure after closure of churches. At least here in the US.

We can't ordain married men or, God forbid, women, so the choices are very limited.


Well, that would be a miracle we could all believe in, eh?

/must suck to find you put faith where it does not belong
 
2012-10-11 01:52:37 PM

WalMartian: There are not enough priests left to keep the churches going.


it's about time

maybe a few centuries from now people might also get the notion that scientology has some stuff that just doesn't jibe
 
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