If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NYPost)   Rich 'Dad,' bankrupt Dad   (nypost.com) divider line 39
    More: Fail, Rich Dad, letter of intents, Kiyosaki  
•       •       •

11247 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Oct 2012 at 12:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-10-10 10:06:17 AM
8 votes:

RexTalionis: Yeah, no. He put one of his companies in bankruptcy. He's got 9 other companies.


Skipping out on your bills is a good way to stay rich.
2012-10-10 01:01:54 PM
3 votes:

xynix: This is why I formed an LLC and put my boat and plane into it as well as my fun car. IF I ever have any accidents in those vehicles they can sue "me LLC" (it's actually named after my dog) but I'm protected. They can't sue me or touch my personal assets. My rental home company (for 4 houses) is in a completely different LLC so if anything happens on those properties they can't sue me personally or touch my other assets formed under the previous LLC. My investments not including retirement is in another LLC. These three are managed under an asset protection trust.. My own personal assets are practically nothing so to sue me personally would get someone practically nothing as it should be.

I highly recommend putting together an asset protection trust when you get to the point that you have assets.. including stocks and whatnot. You can easily transfer stocks to an LLC. There are also huge tax benefits for doing this.


Annnnndddd they'll use statements like this to go after your assets to prove the LLC is fake and is actually a personally owned thing.
2012-10-10 12:17:50 PM
3 votes:

xynix: This is why I formed an LLC and put my boat and plane into it as well as my fun car. IF I ever have any accidents in those vehicles they can sue "me LLC" (it's actually named after my dog) but I'm protected. They can't sue me or touch my personal assets. My rental home company (for 4 houses) is in a completely different LLC so if anything happens on those properties they can't sue me personally or touch my other assets formed under the previous LLC. My investments not including retirement is in another LLC. These three are managed under an asset protection trust.. My own personal assets are practically nothing so to sue me personally would get someone practically nothing as it should be.

I highly recommend putting together an asset protection trust when you get to the point that you have assets.. including stocks and whatnot. You can easily transfer stocks to an LLC. There are also huge tax benefits for doing this.


I don't understand why you're practically beaming about leveraging something so very wrong with our society.
2012-10-10 11:48:26 AM
3 votes:
This is why I formed an LLC and put my boat and plane into it as well as my fun car. IF I ever have any accidents in those vehicles they can sue "me LLC" (it's actually named after my dog) but I'm protected. They can't sue me or touch my personal assets. My rental home company (for 4 houses) is in a completely different LLC so if anything happens on those properties they can't sue me personally or touch my other assets formed under the previous LLC. My investments not including retirement is in another LLC. These three are managed under an asset protection trust.. My own personal assets are practically nothing so to sue me personally would get someone practically nothing as it should be.

I highly recommend putting together an asset protection trust when you get to the point that you have assets.. including stocks and whatnot. You can easily transfer stocks to an LLC. There are also huge tax benefits for doing this.
2012-10-10 04:28:41 PM
2 votes:

un4gvn666: I listened to the "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" audio CD a few years back, when I first moved out on my own. It was an endless stream of generalized nothing. No specifics of any kind, just buzzwords and smoke and mirrors. Found out about Dave Ramsey podcasts, threw out the audio CD and never looked back.


I did the same, the general ideas were nice though, in that wealthy and poor people see money different. This is an example of how a wealthy person uses another company for personal gain, then when the bill comes due, screw them. A poor person though can't free-load for that long and if they somehow do, they are personally liable for that debt and it stays with them.
2012-10-10 02:58:41 PM
2 votes:

GavinTheAlmighty: There are always tons of complaints about Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad" seminars. He lends his name to these seminars but never ever attends, and they're all just massive bullying sessions, pushing people to buy all his crap. I've never been as I have no investable income after my RRSPs and mortgage right now, but there is no shortage of stories.


Get Rich seminars are basically preying on the weak and stupid. People who want to get rich, rather than wanting to do great things.

Here's my free lesson in succeeding in business: work out VERY PRECISELY what you love doing and that people will buy. Something that you will throw yourself at, do 10 hours a day if necessary, and for moderate profits, but because it's what you love doing and want to earn the excess for yourself and because a "boss" is adding nothing to what you do. There's no promise of getting rich from it, but at least you'll have spent your life doing what you like doing.

What Jobs understood is that people who go chasing the money rarely make the money.
2012-10-10 02:36:10 PM
2 votes:
The book was crap. Poor dad says go to school and work hard. Rich dad says gain assets and reduce liabilities. Why they have to be mutually exclusive choices, I don't know, but rich dad said it and I want to be rich, so I'll do what he says.

I think I'll write a book called Great Husband, Bad Husband. It will be like Goofus and Gallant, but with more words and higher pricetag. The twist is Great Husband will be Goofus.

/Bad Husband turns the volume up on the TV when his friends are over, ignoring his wife
//Great Husband invites his wife to hang with his friends
2012-10-10 09:40:38 AM
2 votes:
FTA: Mike Sullivan, CEO of Kiyosaki's Rich Dad Co., told us that Kiyosaki, said to be worth $80 million, was still doing very well thanks to investments in other companies: "The dealings we had with Learning Annex were with a company that hasn't been in business for a number of years . . . I am not surprised Learning Annex is upset and angry, the money doesn't exist in that company, and we can't bring money out of the group.

Yeah, no. He put one of his companies in bankruptcy. He's got 9 other companies.
2012-10-12 01:40:15 PM
1 votes:

Chaos6980: Should be a bit more specific, i'm getting into the rental homes business... and this seems you have a good grasp on the legalities.


I own rental homes and a property management LLC and if you want real advice, what you should do it is talk to an accountant and a lawyer. The basics are that you want to do all business through the LLC. Rent checks are written to X LLC. Pay the bills using checks from X LLC. If you hire handymen, lawncare, snow removal, etc pay using X LLC. If you drop into Home Depot for a do it yourself part for use in a rental home, use the credit card of X LLC. Don't mix up personal and private cash flows ever.

The real thing to focus on is moving money from the LLC to yourself. For example I have a regular job and simply paying myself all the profit would do unpleasant things to my tax bracket when you summed up rental profits + what my regular job pays. So my LLC pays for my cellphone (business expense since I need to respond to tenant maintenance requests). I have a pickup owned by the LLC that my father and I use snow clearance. I then drafted a company policy about employee use of the pickup in that it can checked out to go down to the hardware store on Saturday to buy stuff for a personal project. The LLC offers its employees (myself, my father, and my father in law) insurance that supplements what we already have (as in I have good general medical, but crap dental, so the LLC has crap general medical, but kickass dental).

Basically the lawyer I talked with said "Look the courts aren't going to get overly biatchy about some cellphones, a Silverado, and an odd insurance plan. They will get biatchy if you try to shelter a lot of cash in it or divide up assets in some really odd manner. Or do things like try to pass off a Corvette ZO6 as a company car." With the benefits and the like you can actually make the case that they are done specifically your company seeks to attract part time employees looking for supplemental work, which is a valid business mode. So if this is going to be a second job for you, look at just offering your employees awesome benefits. If this is your primary job, run it like a real company.

/for your own house and the like, put it in trust for the kids to make it fairly untouchable
2012-10-11 04:12:28 PM
1 votes:

Rent Party: ohknaks: Rent Party: I don't have to manufacture anything. That is the business. The business generated no revenue and operated at a loss. Operating a business badly isn't fraud.

Unless that business operates for more than 3 years with a loss. The IRS then considers that business to be a hobby by default. Good luck convincing a judge that it's a real business.

So, American Airlines is a hobby?

That three year loss rule generally applies to farms, so the IRS can weed out the "gentlemen farmer." My dad played that game with them for decades. It's amazing how you can create a loss or a profit simply by buying feed and grain in December, rather than January.

See how easy that is?


Actually, it's profit in three out of five years that creates a presumption that the activity is for profit, and that's under IRS rules which, while relevant to this question, aren't dispositive. You have to remember that veil-piercing is a matter of state law because the LLC is a creation of state statute. So while tax returns, etc. are evidence of profit motive, they don't necessarily prove it one way or the other (and American Airlines can easily prove it's a for-profit activity irrespective of whether it's profitable - at most, an unprofitable business can lose its ability to deduct losses).

What's more relevant in your example, where you contribute your boat to an LLC and then try to claim the LLC is a "business" because you occasionally use the boat to entertain clients of other businesses, is the fact that you probably can't prove Boat, LLC is actually attempting to operate as a business at all. Is it registered as a boat livery? Does it advertise the boat for rent? Do you (or your other LLC that is entertaining the client) reimburse the LLC for use of the boat? If not, do you claim that use as income? These are the kind of hurdles that people face when they try to shield assets in this manner. If you do run over someone in your boat and you happen to be entertaining a client at the time, you may well be able to prove that you were acting in the course of business, but you may have the burden to prove that, not the other way around. I'm not saying it can't be done, but an experienced attorney knows it's never "just that simple."
2012-10-11 12:19:31 PM
1 votes:

robhidalgo: DoBeDoBeDo: Robyr: sotua: netringer: The key Occams razor I always apply is if you have a foolproof way to get and stay rich, why do you host seminars?

Because his foolproof method to get and stay rich is hosting seminars for the gullible. Duh.

This is my problem with him and anyone else of the same ilk.

His involvement with many of the pyramid scheme (oops, I mean Multi-level marke-- oops I mean network market--- oops social marketing) scams is also a telling sign that the man is completely and utterly full of shiat.

Watched too many friends (not the brightest, but more desperate than anything) fall for that shiat and become a cult zombie to the shiat, or pour far more money and time in to them than they would an actual, proper business venture only to enrich the slugs at the top. I can't WAIT for the legislative onslaught that is mounting pretty quick. It is going to out many of these people like Kiyosaki as total hucksters and frauds.

This! I have a friend who is pushing that Ambit Energy scheme. "Look I have a conference call with a guy who makes $500k/month."

A guy I knew in high school caught up with me on FB and convinced me to attend a meeting with him about a vague "business opportunity". I knew what was up but I'd never been to one of these meetings so I figured I'd go and see what these people actually talk about. There was definitely a lot of "I know a guy who makes x dollars per month with this proven system" BS thrown around there, but for some reason, that person was nowhere to be found. It was quite amusing to hear the presenter go to great lengths to assure us attendees that this opportunity (which turned out to be an IBO sponsored by an IBO sponsored by an IBO sponsored by Amway) was definitely NOT a pyramid scheme. No, it was "more of a tree-type of system", he explained! I honestly had to laugh at that.

I politely listened to the remainder of the presentation, and at the end my old high-school acquaintance suggested that I get my parent ...


The "True Believers" are often plants. Truth is, anyone making real money in this type of thing are either sad, lonely people now that they've shown they will abuse friends and family to make $0.33 off a "sale" to them, or they are sociopaths. Granted, they can be both.

It just saddens me to have watched a brilliantly talented graphic artist fall in to this trap, and basically sink 80 hours a week in to a fleeting dream because some dickhead showed off a leased BMW (that he has to maintain $4500/week in sales to keep since it isn't even his for christs sake) and sold her on an impossible dream.

If she had put the same energy and resources in to starting her own firm, she would be quite successful without becoming a shill and a huckster.
2012-10-11 09:55:30 AM
1 votes:

sotua: netringer: The key Occams razor I always apply is if you have a foolproof way to get and stay rich, why do you host seminars?

Because his foolproof method to get and stay rich is hosting seminars for the gullible. Duh.


This is my problem with him and anyone else of the same ilk.

His involvement with many of the pyramid scheme (oops, I mean Multi-level marke-- oops I mean network market--- oops social marketing) scams is also a telling sign that the man is completely and utterly full of shiat.

Watched too many friends (not the brightest, but more desperate than anything) fall for that shiat and become a cult zombie to the shiat, or pour far more money and time in to them than they would an actual, proper business venture only to enrich the slugs at the top. I can't WAIT for the legislative onslaught that is mounting pretty quick. It is going to out many of these people like Kiyosaki as total hucksters and frauds.
2012-10-11 06:28:01 AM
1 votes:

Magorn: xynix: This is why I formed an LLC and put my boat and plane into it as well as my fun car. IF I ever have any accidents in those vehicles they can sue "me LLC" (it's actually named after my dog) but I'm protected. They can't sue me or touch my personal assets. My rental home company (for 4 houses) is in a completely different LLC so if anything happens on those properties they can't sue me personally or touch my other assets formed under the previous LLC. My investments not including retirement is in another LLC. These three are managed under an asset protection trust.. My own personal assets are practically nothing so to sue me personally would get someone practically nothing as it should be.

I highly recommend putting together an asset protection trust when you get to the point that you have assets.. including stocks and whatnot. You can easily transfer stocks to an LLC. There are also huge tax benefits for doing this.

got bad news for you. I'm pretty sure I could "pierce your corporate veil" faster than a drunk tourist at a bellydance show. Courts have little to no patience for corporations that exiat solely to let people weasel out of their responsibilites and serve no business purpose


This. Just because the "lawyer I've known for years" convinced you to pay him a shiatload to set up a spiderweb of LLCs, that doesn't mean his advice actually works. If you are negligent when flying a plane, it's you, not the LLC, that someone would sue. And then you would have to prove that the LLC is actually the proper defendant. Which you might be able to do if it is actually a business, but if it just holds your assets it isn't going to shield your liability. Property is different because premises liability (i.e., someone slips and falls in a rental house) is based on ownership of the property, so in that case the LLC will help you. Even with an APT, creditors can go after whatever interest you have as a beneficiary, and in many cases, particularly where the beneficiary is the person who contributed the assets to the trust, creditors can get to the assets.
2012-10-11 06:05:28 AM
1 votes:

xynix: This is why I formed an LLC and put my boat and plane into it as well as my fun car. IF I ever have any accidents in those vehicles they can sue "me LLC" (it's actually named after my dog) but I'm protected. They can't sue me or touch my personal assets. My rental home company (for 4 houses) is in a completely different LLC so if anything happens on those properties they can't sue me personally or touch my other assets formed under the previous LLC. My investments not including retirement is in another LLC. These three are managed under an asset protection trust.. My own personal assets are practically nothing so to sue me personally would get someone practically nothing as it should be.

I highly recommend putting together an asset protection trust when you get to the point that you have assets.. including stocks and whatnot. You can easily transfer stocks to an LLC. There are also huge tax benefits for doing this.



I'm going to filter through the typical bullshiat people on the internet say and get to the truth:

your dad is/was a pilot for Delta (you live in Atlanta, duh) and owns a plane with a few other pilots
So you get your picture taken with it and suddenly this is yours
Now after you are born on 3rd base and he pays for your entire upbringing (pilots used to make 250k+ a year) you do some half assed used car salesmen in 3rd world nations selling bunk software

Here's a tip bro, don't ever give business advice because you're horrible at it.
2012-10-10 10:17:17 PM
1 votes:
"'Poor dad'
The idea behind Kiyosaki's title is that his real father was upper middle class. He graduated from Stanford, Chicago, and Northwestern Universities, all on full scholarship, ultimately earning a Ph.D. He pursued a career in education and became the head of the education department of the State of Hawaii. He owned the home in which the Kiyosaki family lived. Kiyosaki calls him his "poor dad."

'Rich dad'
One day, he asked his father how to make money. His father said he had not made much money and did not know how to make it. He suggested that Robert ask the father of his next-door playmate, Mike. That boy's father was a successful local businessman. He was also an eighth-grade dropout and ultimately a multimillionaire with a bunch of small businesses like construction, restaurants, and convenience stores. Kiyosaki developed a father-son relationship with the neighbor. That is who he is referring to when he uses the phrase "rich dad."

One visitor to this site asked me if I was sure "Rich Dad" really exists. No, I'm not. In fact, I now lean to believing that there never was a "Rich Dad," that Kiyosaki made the whole thing up. If I had written such a book, I would have named him in the book, if only out of gratitude. It is noteworthy that Kiyosaki refuses to identify "Rich Dad" and the Honolulu Star-Bulletin was unable to figure out who it was, in spite of the rather obvious "next-door neighbor Mike whose father owns convenience stores, restaurants, and a construction company" clues. The man was purportedly around 30 to 45 years old in 1955. So he would be 83 to 98 now. How many people on that one street in Honolulu could possibly fit that description?"
...
n 1992, Kiyosaki wrote a book called If You Want to Be Rich and Happy, Don't Go To School? It is "dedicated to Ralph H. Kiyosaki, former Superintendent of Education, State of Hawaii, the best teacher I ever had." This would be "Poor Dad." But Rich Dad Poor Dad, which came out in 1997, says quite emphatically that Rich Dad was the best teacher he ever had.

So maybe "Rich Dad" was the second best teacher he ever had. No. Actually, the 1992 book also identifies the second best teacher Kiyosaki ever had: F. Marshall Thurber.

OK. So maybe "Rich Dad" was third. No. Kiyosaki's 1992 book has an unusually long acknowledgment section. It lists 111 people, none of whom appears to be "Rich Dad." That is, none are singled out except for his "Poor Dad" parents, in-laws, business partner, and editors.

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html


The key Occams razor I always apply is if you have a foolproof way to get and stay rich, why do you host seminars?
2012-10-10 07:36:41 PM
1 votes:
Rent Party 2012-10-10 07:21:43 PM


Moopy Mac: Rent Party: Moopy Mac:
What is a legitimate business function of a LLC that was formed to just owns a couple of cars and a boat? No court in the country is falling for that shiat.


The LLC owns the boat. The boat is available for leasing. Revenues from those operations are returned to the LLC. The LLC expends cash to maintain the boat. Profits, if any, passed through to the LLC members.

There ya go.

So you are now manufacturing receipts and records to provide to a court? Now you've committed fraud (both civil and criminal).

I don't have to manufacture anything. That is the business. The business generated no revenue and operated at a loss. Operating a business badly isn't fraud.


Speaking as a layman, my opinion is that your advice is highly sh*tty as well as hazardous.
2012-10-10 07:06:20 PM
1 votes:
i'm sure he's rich spiritually. isn't that the whole point??

/vote Republican

3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-10-10 05:31:38 PM
1 votes:

Lost Thought 00: Rent Party: Every incorporation document has a "why this business exists" line in it. "To provide transportation services" is all that is really required. There will also be a line in there that says something like "For all lawful purposes."

And it doesn't have to happen at all. "My LLC generated no income, and had the following expenses" is perfectly legitimate. Just because your business lost money doesn't mean it's not a business.

Yeah, that still won't save your assets in a divorce, which in my experience is the #1 reason people set up those structures


That's correct.

In a divorce (in community property states, anyway) she's going to be entitled to whatever was accrued during the course of the marriage. That would include your share of whatever LLC you set up.

I actually don't have a problem with that.
2012-10-10 05:20:28 PM
1 votes:

Rent Party: Every incorporation document has a "why this business exists" line in it. "To provide transportation services" is all that is really required. There will also be a line in there that says something like "For all lawful purposes."

And it doesn't have to happen at all. "My LLC generated no income, and had the following expenses" is perfectly legitimate. Just because your business lost money doesn't mean it's not a business.


Yeah, that still won't save your assets in a divorce, which in my experience is the #1 reason people set up those structures
2012-10-10 05:06:34 PM
1 votes:

Hebalo: Rent Party: Here, let me help you discover just exactly how easy this is.

The purpose of the company is to provide vehicles for business entertainment. As part of my (legitimate) real estate business, I took a prospective client out on the boat for some fishing, drove him to the marina in the car, and afterwards we went on a two day camping excursion where we made use of the ATV.

If he can show they have a legitimate business function, he is acting in the best interest of the company.


If the purpose of the company is such, there needs to be a paper trial for the rental, and I'd assume this needs to happen more than once.


Every incorporation document has a "why this business exists" line in it. "To provide transportation services" is all that is really required. There will also be a line in there that says something like "For all lawful purposes."

And it doesn't have to happen at all. "My LLC generated no income, and had the following expenses" is perfectly legitimate. Just because your business lost money doesn't mean it's not a business.
2012-10-10 04:49:09 PM
1 votes:

Rent Party: Here, let me help you discover just exactly how easy this is.

The purpose of the company is to provide vehicles for business entertainment. As part of my (legitimate) real estate business, I took a prospective client out on the boat for some fishing, drove him to the marina in the car, and afterwards we went on a two day camping excursion where we made use of the ATV.

If he can show they have a legitimate business function, he is acting in the best interest of the company.


Exactly. Which I can.. which I have receipts too.. Which I use as tax deductions.. etc. Again the primary purpose of the LLC is to prevent your assets from being taken by a sue happy normal citizen. It's not so that you can be a douchebag with no consequences. In the courts they will nail you if you're an asshole.. If someone gets hurt on one of my rental properties I am protected from that. If I get into an accident on my boat and someone dies they can't touch my property company. If I purposely cause harm to someone then it's an open game and lawyers + judges will shred me.

Some seem to think that this is done with devious intent and it's not at least by me. It's a way to provide complete transparency to the IRS while protecting myself from sue happy assholes.

The purpose of the trust (and yes it costs a whopping $1000 a year tops to keep up) + the LLCs is to keep what I've worked my ass off for. So if I get into a car accident with someone who sees I drive an expensive car they can't sue me for 1.5 mil and expect to get anything out of it. They can't take the houses I rent out and they can't take my boat (which frankly isn't all that).

In this guys case he had a company.. company A which is worth 8 million or whatever and he did legitimate business in that company with a person who sued and won 20 mil. They won't get 20 mil.. They can't touch his other companys. They'll get only what's in the company that they did business with. Now if the guy did all kinds of illegal crap like Bernie Madoff then it would be open season and all his LLCs would be liable. You can't hide from the law, they will get your ass if your doing illegal shiat.

Again I highly recommend anyone that goes into any business to form a APT and LLC that thing and then wrap your other assets into another LLC. Simply bring one of your customers out on the boat, out to lunch in the car you have in it, and you're square.

I also recommend liability insurance. I have a million on both my rental company and my plane.. Let the insurance company lawyers fight that battle and you're not even paying legal fees. Any overages on lawsuits, say 1.5 mil, would have to come from whatever company is being sued. As long as you're not devious the legal system will work for you.
2012-10-10 04:35:22 PM
1 votes:

jjwars1: Are any of you attorneys? No snark...just curious about the pros and cons here.


No, but this came up years ago with a previous employer. My boss actually tried to run this scam when he was getting a divorce. His lawyer had some polite words on the intelligence and effectiveness of it.

(it's not smart)
(it's not effective)

LLC's work if you're an actual commercial business. If you're trying to shelter assets, not so much. Judges are less then amused by blatant crap like that and they can dissolve the LLC.
2012-10-10 04:35:13 PM
1 votes:

Babwa Wawa: Skipping out on your bills is a good way to stay rich.


Sorta like Romney and his taxes?
2012-10-10 04:19:33 PM
1 votes:

Magorn: xynix: This is why I formed an LLC and put my boat and plane into it as well as my fun car. IF I ever have any accidents in those vehicles they can sue "me LLC" (it's actually named after my dog) but I'm protected. They can't sue me or touch my personal assets. My rental home company (for 4 houses) is in a completely different LLC so if anything happens on those properties they can't sue me personally or touch my other assets formed under the previous LLC. My investments not including retirement is in another LLC. These three are managed under an asset protection trust.. My own personal assets are practically nothing so to sue me personally would get someone practically nothing as it should be.

I highly recommend putting together an asset protection trust when you get to the point that you have assets.. including stocks and whatnot. You can easily transfer stocks to an LLC. There are also huge tax benefits for doing this.

got bad news for you. I'm pretty sure I could "pierce your corporate veil" faster than a drunk tourist at a bellydance show. Courts have little to no patience for corporations that exiat solely to let people weasel out of their responsibilites and serve no business purpose


Yeah, he's full of shiat.

I like how he doesn't mention that trusts are fairly expensive to keep up.
2012-10-10 03:29:40 PM
1 votes:
Good. He's a shyster and this is a long time coming. He advertised his seminars in Madison last year and I looked him up. I found... all manner of horror, which I ended up blogging here.

My blog post is the 99-cent version. This guy has the gold-plated Donald Trump King Shiat Of Fark Mountain version. Depends how much you feel like reading.
2012-10-10 03:24:48 PM
1 votes:
The poin

Moopy Mac: Rent Party: downstairs:
Second question... if an LLC is sued, don't they often also sue officers of the company personally (which I assume you must be one, if not the only one.)

No. That is the entire point of an LLC or corporation. Baring fraud or other illegal acts, the company exists as a separate legal entity from the people that own it or run it. So long as the officers of the company act in the interests of the company, they are not liable.

Which in the (sarcastic?) example given above, would not be the case w/r/t his cars and boat. There is barely even a veil to be pierced.

/One of the factors considered by courts in rejecting the limited liability afforded by LLCs (and other entities creating protections from general liability) is if a person is using the LLC's assets as their own. Or if the LLC was created specifically to limit the member from liability of such member's personal dealings.

 And more importantly, he wouldn't be sued for the corporation's activity, which is limited to owning a car. He'd be sued for his own activity, in crashing the car.
2012-10-10 03:12:23 PM
1 votes:

GavinTheAlmighty: There are always tons of complaints about Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad" seminars. He lends his name to these seminars but never ever attends, and they're all just massive bullying sessions, pushing people to buy all his crap. I've never been as I have no investable income after my RRSPs and mortgage right now, but there is no shortage of stories.


I went to a free seminar last week. Between the schilling of his books and more expensive seminars, I did pick up some knowledge. I'm looking into owning some rental property some time in the next year or two and had been scouting Trulia and Zillow in the neighborhood I'm interested. I didn't know most bank properties never make it that far - at least not without more experienced people than myself picking them over first.

I'll still keep an eye on the MLS as a way to keep tabs on the neighborhood, but I'm glad I know now there's more out there than I'm seeing at the moment.
2012-10-10 03:02:46 PM
1 votes:

AcneVulgaris: gameshowhost: xynix: This is why I formed an LLC and put my boat and plane into it as well as my fun car. IF I ever have any accidents in those vehicles they can sue "me LLC" (it's actually named after my dog) but I'm protected. They can't sue me or touch my personal assets. My rental home company (for 4 houses) is in a completely different LLC so if anything happens on those properties they can't sue me personally or touch my other assets formed under the previous LLC. My investments not including retirement is in another LLC. These three are managed under an asset protection trust.. My own personal assets are practically nothing so to sue me personally would get someone practically nothing as it should be.

I highly recommend putting together an asset protection trust when you get to the point that you have assets.. including stocks and whatnot. You can easily transfer stocks to an LLC. There are also huge tax benefits for doing this.

I don't understand why you're practically beaming about leveraging something so very wrong with our society.

If you ain't farking, you're getting farked.


*Now* I understand Romney voters.
2012-10-10 02:46:37 PM
1 votes:
Morally Bankrupt Dad/Poor Dad
2012-10-10 02:18:39 PM
1 votes:
Given that the author is largely selling advice on an unsourced story he probably made up about the "Rich Dad" and the "Poor Dad," I think it's a fitting end.
2012-10-10 02:07:38 PM
1 votes:

xynix: This is why I formed an LLC and put my boat and plane into it as well as my fun car. IF I ever have any accidents in those vehicles they can sue "me LLC" (it's actually named after my dog) but I'm protected. They can't sue me or touch my personal assets. My rental home company (for 4 houses) is in a completely different LLC so if anything happens on those properties they can't sue me personally or touch my other assets formed under the previous LLC. My investments not including retirement is in another LLC. These three are managed under an asset protection trust.. My own personal assets are practically nothing so to sue me personally would get someone practically nothing as it should be.

I highly recommend putting together an asset protection trust when you get to the point that you have assets.. including stocks and whatnot. You can easily transfer stocks to an LLC. There are also huge tax benefits for doing this.


got bad news for you. I'm pretty sure I could "pierce your corporate veil" faster than a drunk tourist at a bellydance show. Courts have little to no patience for corporations that exiat solely to let people weasel out of their responsibilites and serve no business purpose
2012-10-10 02:03:12 PM
1 votes:

Aidan: jjwars1: Are any of you attorneys? No snark...just curious about the pros and cons here.

I am not but I can tell you that a customer of the company I work for is being dragged up and down the courts because a major [blank] company has attempted to prove this very thing. The impression I'm getting is they're doing a damn good job of tracking down ALL his little accounts.

On the OTHER hand, he really pissed them off and they have the money to chase him down, so this idea may be safer for your common schmuck.


Well yeah.. The problem is some people think that creating an LLC will protect them from douchebaggery. You still can't get away with being a massive dick to people with huge coffers. You're ultimately protecting yourself from the other side of the douchebag spectrum and that would be sue happy normal citizens that can't afford $100k in legal fees.
2012-10-10 01:52:05 PM
1 votes:
When the poor walk away from their mortgage, leaving the house, they're deadbeats.

When a company which was basically designed with bankruptcy in mind is dissolved to avoid a debt, it's good business.
2012-10-10 01:50:52 PM
1 votes:
There are always tons of complaints about Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad" seminars. He lends his name to these seminars but never ever attends, and they're all just massive bullying sessions, pushing people to buy all his crap. I've never been as I have no investable income after my RRSPs and mortgage right now, but there is no shortage of stories.
2012-10-10 01:47:23 PM
1 votes:

ghare: Annnnndddd they'll use statements like this to go after your assets to prove the LLC is fake and is actually a personally owned thing.

Yeah, this. They'll look at these various LLCs that seem to do nothing except own things that a person normally owns, and then the jig is up.


Uhh no. An asset protection trust removes ownership of the assets from the owner and puts them into the LLC that's under the trust. This is a very common way to protect assets from creditors or those that wish to sue you for your personal assets. In this sue happy society you're simply dumb not to build a APT. Especially if you have a legitimate business like I have where I own some houses I rent out.

However it won't protect your credit as you're still using your own credit, generally speaking, when you're using an LLC for real estate. An APT should not be used if you plan to file bankruptcy anyway. It's not for that, it's for asset protection against people that would sue you. Some states do allow for total asset protection from creditors using an APT though.. it's state to state. It's also up to the judge and if you were to form an APT/LLC just prior to filing it will get shredded. If you've had the APT for decades then chances are you'll be fully protected.

Example of how an APT works: I had a bad flying day and ran my plane into a house killing a person inside and of course me. That family decides to sue my estate however they would only be able to sue the LLC in which the airplane is owned. They would not be able to touch any of my other assets and especially not the trust which will instantly move into my sons name (don't tell him that).

Certainly a very good lawyer may be able to take some parts of the trust that pertain to personal assets if it's revocable but that's why you make an irrevocable trust. (Talk to a lawyer)

Either way something tells me I'm going to believe my lawyer, who I've know for decades, over the mouth-breathers on Fark.
2012-10-10 01:07:58 PM
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: xynix: This is why I formed an LLC and put my boat and plane into it as well as my fun car. IF I ever have any accidents in those vehicles they can sue "me LLC" (it's actually named after my dog) but I'm protected. They can't sue me or touch my personal assets. My rental home company (for 4 houses) is in a completely different LLC so if anything happens on those properties they can't sue me personally or touch my other assets formed under the previous LLC. My investments not including retirement is in another LLC. These three are managed under an asset protection trust.. My own personal assets are practically nothing so to sue me personally would get someone practically nothing as it should be.

I highly recommend putting together an asset protection trust when you get to the point that you have assets.. including stocks and whatnot. You can easily transfer stocks to an LLC. There are also huge tax benefits for doing this.

Annnnndddd they'll use statements like this to go after your assets to prove the LLC is fake and is actually a personally owned thing.


Yeah, this. They'll look at these various LLCs that seem to do nothing except own things that a person normally owns, and then the jig is up.
2012-10-10 12:57:06 PM
1 votes:

Babwa Wawa: Skipping out on your bills is a good way to stay rich.


www.blogcdn.com 

Worked for me, several times over!
2012-10-10 12:14:55 PM
1 votes:
Same old game.

Privatize the profits; socialize the risk.
2012-10-10 10:32:57 AM
1 votes:
Interesting that he seemed to have lost based on a signed letter of intent instead of a signed contract.
 
Displayed 39 of 39 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report