If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Nation)   I'm pretty sure this isn't how NYC's "Stop and Frisk" policy is supposed to be carried out, citizen   (thenation.com) divider line 238
    More: Scary, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, New York Police Department, Center for Constitutional Rights, New York Civil Liberties Union, The Nation, systemic problems  
•       •       •

5825 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Oct 2012 at 7:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



238 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-10-10 08:45:58 AM
I got my black shirt on.
I got my black gloves on.
I got my ski mask on.
This shiat's been too long.

I got my twelve gauge sawed off.
I got my headlights turned off.
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off.
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off.

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, fark police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your family's grievin'
fark 'em)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even.

I got my brain on hype.
Tonight'll be your night.
I got this long-assed knife,
and your neck looks just right.
My adrenaline's pumpin'.
I got my stereo bumpin'.
I'm 'bout to kill me somethin'
A pig stopped me for nuthin'!

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, fark police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your mama's grievin'
(fark her)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even.

Die, die, die pig, die!
fark the police!
 
2012-10-10 09:05:31 AM
You think that's bad, you should see what "stop and frisk" means to Ray Kelly's kid.



/too soon, New Yorkers?
 
2012-10-10 09:13:16 AM

Uncle Tractor: That audio gave me a grade school flashback. Every time I hear a story like that, I wonder why the locals don't form a militia to protect themselves from the cops.

/cuz they'd get shot dead within a week
//NEVER setting foot in the US again. farking scary place


Wheres the farking Black Panthers now that we need 'em....
 
2012-10-10 09:13:57 AM

Muta: They don't target minorities when they pick an area to stop implement stop n' frisk; they target a neighorhood. They pick neighborhoods with high crime with the hopes that a visible police presents will reduce the oportunity for crimes. They don't stop and frisk wall street bankers because they don't hang out in the high crime neighborhoods.


Are you going to honestly, with a straight face, argue that Wall Street isn't a high crime neighborhood?
 
2012-10-10 09:14:14 AM

Silly Jesus: Do you honestly think that there's a huge skew in the numbers for murder, assault etc. because the cops arrest blacks more and look the other way for whitey?


I live in a rural area with almost all white people out here and there no cops in our town but I know for a fact there are drunken fights and other violence that doesn't get reported or stumbled upon by the police, I don't know if that explains all the statistical difference but the large rural unpoliced white population does have less chance to get caught doing something than their economic peers in the dense urban populations.
 
2012-10-10 09:39:11 AM

indylaw: tzzhc4: How is this legal? Don't they need probable cause before they can search you?

They need "reasonable suspicion" that a crime may have been committed or may be in progress. The classic scenario is a man in a hood and sunglasses walking repeatedly past a bank with his hands in his pockets, looking in the window every time he passes. There's no probable cause to believe that he has committed a bank robbery at that point, but Terry v. Ohio basically holds that the police can stop him and ask him some questions about what he's up to, and frisk him for weapons if they believe he's holding.

The way that the cops work is that they get one freebie in court. It's called "qualified immunity" and basically says that as long as it's not obvious from already established case law that the exact thing they're doing is unconstitutional, the police officers cannot be held liable for damages. The City is perhaps exposing itself under Monell, but notice that as much as the cops were talking shiat and acting tough, they didn't cause any real physical harm to the kid with the recording. (They were instead trying to provoke a violent response so that the cops could then arrest him.)

That's where the real monetary liability lies, and it suggests that the police department is telling their cops, in effect, "push the boundaries as far as you can on stop and frisk, but try not to actually hurt anybody."


Thank you for a plain english response explaining the legal aspects of the situation!!!!! Most appreciated!
 
2012-10-10 10:16:48 AM

liam76:
IHadMeAVision: I'm not surprised because the older residents are plain old sick and tired of gun violence

How many guns have they taken off the street with stop and frisk?


The hell if I know not saying I support stop and frisk just saying in my experience residents of the more suburban-y black parts of NYC tend to be less vocal against the practice.
 
2012-10-10 11:51:52 AM
full on nazi shiat hole. 4th amendment? whats that? new york is a hell hole
 
2012-10-10 12:35:29 PM
Stop and Frisk is just the poor people's version of the TSA.
 
2012-10-10 12:55:37 PM
It must suck to be a cop in NYC. They're being ordered to do this crap, and they have no way to refuse to break the law and stop citizens without actual authority to do so. Sucks worse to be on the other end of it, but sucks to be forced to do it too.
 
2012-10-10 01:23:42 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Isitoveryet: Cyclometh: Where are our cop defenders? Come on, you authoritarian douchebags, tell us how this isn't emblematic of all cops.

Then we will point and laugh at you.

this is indefensible but i'm not going to start hating all cops.

ACAB. Where are the cops who resist this kind of shiat? Where are the ones who actually do protect and serve and refuse to act like gangster thugs? I'll tell you where: They don't exist, not in this day and age.


When she was about three, my little sister was home alone almost all day with her father, who is a complete douchebag, and while he should not have been allowed to babysit, at least liked the kid enough so my mother could justify not paying a babysitter. Said douchebag goes and takes a nap, so my sister snuck out to play. She and her friend wound up a full mile away, across a very busy, traffic-infested road. The cop that found them got them both home safely and read her father the riot act.

I hate to defend a troll, but there are a few good cops. That said, I to this day would not feel comfortable with a police officer, ever, and if I was alone and met one, I'd try and get to a very public place as quickly as possible.

/I love how one of the people quoted said children shouldn't be afraid of both cops and robbers...
//Ha. Ha. You're funny.
 
2012-10-10 01:42:22 PM

PsiChick: A Dark Evil Omen: Isitoveryet: Cyclometh: Where are our cop defenders? Come on, you authoritarian douchebags, tell us how this isn't emblematic of all cops.

Then we will point and laugh at you.

this is indefensible but i'm not going to start hating all cops.

ACAB. Where are the cops who resist this kind of shiat? Where are the ones who actually do protect and serve and refuse to act like gangster thugs? I'll tell you where: They don't exist, not in this day and age.

When she was about three, my little sister was home alone almost all day with her father, who is a complete douchebag, and while he should not have been allowed to babysit, at least liked the kid enough so my mother could justify not paying a babysitter. Said douchebag goes and takes a nap, so my sister snuck out to play. She and her friend wound up a full mile away, across a very busy, traffic-infested road. The cop that found them got them both home safely and read her father the riot act.

I hate to defend a troll, but there are a few good cops. That said, I to this day would not feel comfortable with a police officer, ever, and if I was alone and met one, I'd try and get to a very public place as quickly as possible.

/I love how one of the people quoted said children shouldn't be afraid of both cops and robbers...
//Ha. Ha. You're funny.


I think most cops have good moments and bad moments. If I had to guess, they decide how they're going to treat you based on a split second judgment they make about whether you're a threat.

The list of factors probably includes:

1. How old you are
2. What you do, if anything, for a living.
3. How you're dressed
4. Whether you've got some sort of obvious left-wing chip on your shoulder
5. What race you are
6. Whether you're male or female
7. Where you live
8. How you speak

I'm a professional white man in his mid 30s. I come from a good family and live in a decent neighborhood and I speak standard American English with a soft southern accent and maybe a touch of elite New England college. I don't say "f*ck" every other word. In my few interactions with police since I was a teenager, they are very polite and professional around me. They see me dressed in preppy clothes and driving a nice four door sedan with no bumper stickers on it and they figure that I'm not the kind of person they need to worry about.

I don't doubt that some of those same cops are ready to give the business to some poor black pizza delivery driver from the shiatty next town over in a rusty 80s Corolla with fancy rims even if they're just ticketing him for the same violation.
 
2012-10-10 02:23:11 PM

Hickory-smoked: Ah ha, so clever how you first admit that multiple statistics you quoted were made-up and then act as though I'm demanding excessive citation. Utterly charming.


Ummm, what?

Hickory-smoked: But yes, we'll accept that the male portion of the African-American population is roughly 50%. Does this mean that all black men should be prejudged as potential murderers? Does the Fourth Amendment no longer apply to them? Do you even think the Fourth Amendment should even exist?


Your straw men are showing. My original premise was merely that if the officers were trying to find criminal behavior, it made sense, statistically, to go after the group that they seem to be targeting. I was suggesting that perhaps they are targeting minority males not because of their pigmentation, but rather because the police have a greater chance of finding some "dirt" on that subset of the population.

Hickory-smoked: I'm curious what your research paper was titled.


It was a criminology class, not a paper.
 
2012-10-10 02:29:58 PM

Wayne 985: Silly Jesus: Cyclometh: Silly Jesus: Dusk-You-n-Me: Silly Jesus: The tactics are heavy handed and I don't condone them...but are you really arguing that the odds aren't in favor of any given minority being a criminal? Statistics, how do they work?

[www.usprisonculture.com image 300x390]

Yes, how do they work.

Ooh, I can find graphs too.

[www.prisonpolicy.org image 600x450]

It's a little dated, but it was easy to find. The more recent data is about the same.

So is this where you go all in and tell us that black men are just more inclined to be murderers because they're black?

Nope. Because of culture. Specifically a culture (prodded along largely by welfare) that finds single motherhood to be acceptable and even preferable. Single motherhood is the greatest predictor of future criminality of offspring when other factors are accounted for. A culture that demeans academic success and embraces violence doesn't help either.

Uh... Do you have a source for any of that, or did you make it up?


Google is your friend. Here is one of the many, many results of a quick search.
 
2012-10-10 02:33:54 PM

Mi-5: Silly Jesus: Neeek: Silly Jesus: Neeek: Hickory-smoked: Silly Jesus: Not sure what you're talking about...

You could try reading the article you pulled that from.

but even if that graph is flawed, the stats are in fact that roughly 6% of the population (black males) commits 60%+ of the murders.

Please provide these stats. Then we can decide if they justify prejudice or not.

I don't think he is going to figure out why that graph doesn't support his point unless you spell it out for him.

Spell it out for me, Einstein.

That particular graph is murder victims. Not murderers.

Oops. I farked up. Mea culpa. Apologies etc.

Nope. You are just an idiot. Own it.


I love you.
 
2012-10-10 02:50:07 PM

liam76: TheBigJerk: Because grand-daddy was in jail or dead in a ditch, going back in time until lynching was normal and the murder of a black man didn't even rate publicity.

Actually the great disparity between the % of white and black houses led by single mothers is a fairly recent phenomenon.

northguineahills: Of course, a bunch of non-badged plain clothes officers ran out of an unmarked car and asked him to stop.

I always though plain clothesed officers were higher ranks. I would think they could find more important things to do.


IHadMeAVision: I'm not surprised because the older residents are plain old sick and tired of gun violence

How many guns have they taken off the street with stop and frisk?


It appeared to be a case of mistaken identity, so this incident wouldn't fall under the standard stop-and-frisk. It did scare the bejesus out of him, and he felt only slightly relieved when he realized it was the NYPD.
 
2012-10-10 03:02:33 PM

RockofAges: /Thoreau

//Snake Plissken

///done


As an ex-soldier, all I can say is "Wow". You've given me something to think about. Excellent post.
 
2012-10-10 03:34:39 PM

Silly Jesus: Your straw men are showing. My original premise was merely that if the officers were trying to find criminal behavior, it made sense, statistically, to go after the group that they seem to be targeting. I was suggesting that perhaps they are targeting minority males not because of their pigmentation, but rather because the police have a greater chance of finding some "dirt" on that subset of the population.


Sooo... The police are randomly stopping and harassing black men, not because they're black, but because they're statistically more likely to be criminals. Because they're black.

Did that make actual sense in your head?
 
2012-10-10 03:42:04 PM
I wonder if systemic racism for centuries has any effect on aggregate wealth of an ethnic group? I wonder what poverty does to people..
 
2012-10-10 03:52:24 PM

RockofAges: "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

//Snake Plissken


This cracked me up, but there may be people who read this and think it's originally from a movie script. For them: the actual quote comes from Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr, ("plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose") and he wrote it way back in 1849.
 
2012-10-10 03:55:32 PM

Phil Moskowitz: I wonder if systemic racism for centuries has any effect on aggregate wealth of an ethnic group? I wonder what poverty does to people..


Whatever. Them slaves was freed in 1860 by the righteous hand of the republicans and everything was immediately hunky dory for colored folk from then on. Ain't no reason why in 150 years they cain't make something of themselves. Hell, for a few decades they was livin' it large havin' all sorts of things handed to 'em left an' right. Shiat, son, they had their own damn private bathrooms and drinkin' fountains!

/ this is what idiots actually believe
 
2012-10-10 04:03:21 PM

Hickory-smoked: Silly Jesus: Your straw men are showing. My original premise was merely that if the officers were trying to find criminal behavior, it made sense, statistically, to go after the group that they seem to be targeting. I was suggesting that perhaps they are targeting minority males not because of their pigmentation, but rather because the police have a greater chance of finding some "dirt" on that subset of the population.

Sooo... The police are randomly stopping and harassing black men, not because they're black, but because they're statistically more likely to be criminals. Because they're black.

Did that make actual sense in your head?


To add to your refutation of this - I was a punk rocker back in the 80s with the Mohawk and the tattoos and all, and was often harassed (searched, verbally abused etc). by the cops. That had nothing to do with us punks committing crimes. I've also talked to gay people from an older generation, and they were also routinely abused by the cops, and it wasn't because they were committing crimes, either.

The cops who do this sh*t are bigoted assholes with a license to act out their prejudices, that's all.
 
2012-10-10 04:07:48 PM

Hickory-smoked: Silly Jesus: Your straw men are showing. My original premise was merely that if the officers were trying to find criminal behavior, it made sense, statistically, to go after the group that they seem to be targeting. I was suggesting that perhaps they are targeting minority males not because of their pigmentation, but rather because the police have a greater chance of finding some "dirt" on that subset of the population.

Sooo... The police are randomly stopping and harassing black men, not because they're black, but because they're statistically more likely to be criminals. Because they're black.

Did that make actual sense in your head?


Yes. There is a difference between "I hate black people so I am going to harass them because they are black" and "That guy over there is more likely to be a criminal." Do you really not see the difference, in your head?
 
2012-10-10 04:15:49 PM

Silly Jesus: Do you really not see the difference, in your head?


You can argue about statistics all you want, it ultimate comes down to the reason for the stop and frisk being that the target is black. Being black isn't criminal. End of story.
 
2012-10-10 04:32:42 PM

Silly Jesus: Yes. There is a difference between "I hate black people so I am going to harass them because they are black" and "That guy over there is more likely to be a criminal." Do you really not see the difference, in your head?


Actually, no. No, I do not see any significant difference between those two abuses of civil rights.

Racial profiling is discrimination. You think it's okay, the Department of Justice and I do not.

I thank you for this opportunity for discussion, but I have to say I think you're a pretty terrible human being.
 
2012-10-10 04:36:02 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Phil Moskowitz: I wonder if systemic racism for centuries has any effect on aggregate wealth of an ethnic group? I wonder what poverty does to people..

Whatever. Them slaves was freed in 1860 by the righteous hand of the republicans and everything was immediately hunky dory for colored folk from then on. Ain't no reason why in 150 years they cain't make something of themselves. Hell, for a few decades they was livin' it large havin' all sorts of things handed to 'em left an' right. Shiat, son, they had their own damn private bathrooms and drinkin' fountains!

/ this is what idiots actually believe


For how long should this excuse remain valid, Jesse?
 
2012-10-10 04:37:48 PM

Hickory-smoked: Silly Jesus: Yes. There is a difference between "I hate black people so I am going to harass them because they are black" and "That guy over there is more likely to be a criminal." Do you really not see the difference, in your head?

Actually, no. No, I do not see any significant difference between those two abuses of civil rights.

Racial profiling is discrimination. You think it's okay, the Department of Justice and I do not.

I thank you for this opportunity for discussion, but I have to say I think you're a pretty terrible human being.


Please point me to where I said that I think it's OK?

Thanks for the ad hom though.
 
2012-10-10 04:40:05 PM

indylaw: I'm a professional white man in his mid 30s. I come from a good family and live in a decent neighborhood and I speak standard American English with a soft southern accent and maybe a touch of elite New England college. I don't say "f*ck" every other word. In my few interactions with police since I was a teenager, they are very polite and professional around me. They see me dressed in preppy clothes and driving a nice four door sedan with no bumper stickers on it and they figure that I'm not the kind of person they need to worry about.


So am I but I'm not such a douchebag about it.

/except for the Southern accent of course. I'd lose that unless you're an oil baron or something
 
2012-10-10 04:42:29 PM

Silly Jesus: Rincewind53: Wait just a few more minutes, guys, and you'll get the Fark Independents coming in saying that the massive number of stop and frisks against minorities are justified because black people and minorities are more likely to commit crimes.

The tactics are heavy handed and I don't condone them...but are you really arguing that the odds aren't in favor of any given minority being a criminal? Statistics, how do they work?

If their goal is to find a criminal, and they have the choice of white guy, Asian guy, and black guy, there is an obvious choice that any betting man racist would make.



I think the issue is not whether you approve of profiling, but that you're (apparently) a racist

/I know, I know...
www.profilebrand.com
 
2012-10-10 04:59:29 PM
Brainsick:
thechive.files.wordpress.com
Statistics are racist.
 
2012-10-10 06:02:32 PM

Mugato: indylaw: I'm a professional white man in his mid 30s. I come from a good family and live in a decent neighborhood and I speak standard American English with a soft southern accent and maybe a touch of elite New England college. I don't say "f*ck" every other word. In my few interactions with police since I was a teenager, they are very polite and professional around me. They see me dressed in preppy clothes and driving a nice four door sedan with no bumper stickers on it and they figure that I'm not the kind of person they need to worry about.

So am I but I'm not such a douchebag about it.

/except for the Southern accent of course. I'd lose that unless you're an oil baron or something


Yeah, it does sound kinda douchey. Then again, I am kinda douchey. I'll own it. There are people who don't like me because I've got some pride. Sorry :-/
 
2012-10-10 06:16:29 PM

Silly Jesus: Thanks for the ad hom though.


You're mistaken on what ad hominem means.

If I claimed your argument was wrong because you're an asshole, that would be an ad hominem.

Instead, I'm saying you're an asshole because you make excuses for racial discrimination. That's entirely different, and, I think most people would agree, justified.

Please point me to where I said that I think it's OK?

If you're not making excuses for racial discrimination, now would be a great time to clarify your position.
 
2012-10-10 06:48:43 PM

Hickory-smoked: Silly Jesus: Thanks for the ad hom though.

You're mistaken on what ad hominem means.

If I claimed your argument was wrong because you're an asshole, that would be an ad hominem.

Instead, I'm saying you're an asshole because you make excuses for racial discrimination. That's entirely different, and, I think most people would agree, justified.

Please point me to where I said that I think it's OK?

If you're not making excuses for racial discrimination, now would be a great time to clarify your position.


I'm not making such excuses. I was merely providing logical reasons for the behavior other than OMGBBQ RACISMS RACISMS RACISMS. It's more bigotry than racism, and while I don't condone it, I can see that it makes sense if an officer is under pressure to produce numbers and there are only so many hours in a day. His odds of meeting whatever quota is in place increase drastically if he stops folks with certain characteristics, one of which is race.

You and others in the Fark Libtard Race Baiting Brigade TM are all too quick to pounce on anyone who speaks of race outside of the framework of "whitey keeping the poor black man down" and label them a racist. I apologize, but you'll have to get your erection in some other way today.
 
2012-10-10 07:58:43 PM

Silly Jesus: It's more bigotry than racism,


i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-10 09:22:39 PM
It is at this point I very-nearly regret having SJ on ignore, because his quoted posts are comedy GOLD!
 
2012-10-10 11:55:14 PM
i75.photobucket.com

i75.photobucket.com

i75.photobucket.com

Think we found the alt.
 
2012-10-11 05:17:51 PM

Hickory-smoked: Silly Jesus: It's more bigotry than racism,

[i.imgur.com image 200x149]


img.izismile.com
 
2012-10-11 05:37:39 PM
 
Displayed 38 of 238 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report