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(MSNBC)   "Partisanship is the No. 1 enemy"   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 89
    More: Obvious, Partisanship, Mr. Cooper, Blue Dogs, welfares, Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington  
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1748 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Oct 2012 at 3:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



89 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-09 02:56:23 PM
1 brazillion times this.
 
2012-10-09 03:02:03 PM
"We don't have a Congress anymore, we have a parliament," said Representative Jim Cooper of Tennessee, one of the last Blue Dogs. "We moderates are an endangered species, but we are also a necessary ingredient for any problem solving."

I wish. But that would suggest multiple parties and coalitions and the like.

And THIS is why it is so god damned important to focus on 'grass roots' like the Tea Party has done. This whole business of 'is the GOP done as a national party' is a farce. If they control the state legislatures, they win Congress. And Congress controls the purse strings and legislative agenda. It is no accident that Obama couldn't push anything through these last 2 years.

The erosion of moderation in Congress started decades ago. The decennial Congressional redistricting, which has been done almost exclusively by state legislatures, has continued the creation of gerrymandered districts that keep competitive elections anomalies.
"Some candidates don't even have to wake up on Election Day to win," Mr. LaTourette said. "I have not seen yet a redistricting proposal that is anything other than trying to favor one side over the other."
 
2012-10-09 03:06:51 PM
If partisanship is our #1 enemy, can't we just shuttle these politicians to Gitmo?
 
2012-10-09 03:07:25 PM
This sort of thing makes me wish I were a person who could become a local politician. I am not a great people person, but dammit, we need people who are open minded at all levels of Government. I love my desert home and want it to do well. Government can and should be a tool used to provide solutions to our problems, not a monolithic entity to hate and fear.
 
2012-10-09 03:24:29 PM
Centrism is worse.
 
2012-10-09 03:24:36 PM
I can haz instant runoff elections plz?

Thats the only real solution, what would it take to do it?
 
2012-10-09 03:26:08 PM
As reported in the new York times.

Was e ironic tag or he hypocrite tag unavailable?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-09 03:27:39 PM

xanadian: If partisanship is our #1 enemy, can't we just shuttle these politicians to Gitmo?


Because they are the ones who can shuttle us off to Gitmo.
 
2012-10-09 03:28:08 PM
Oh, and FARK the blue dogs. www.waynebesen.com

Totally worthless, they deserve the door to hit them on the ass as hard as possible on the way out. We got the right's watered down health care plan thanks to them. The centrist plan was the government option, which noone really in their right mind would oppose unless they were thoroughly brainwashed. Single payer, there are definitely plenty of good arguments against. The government option should have been the compromise. Fark the blue dogs for not letting it happen.

The Democrats (at least the mainstream ones like Obama) ARE the centrists these days. There is no left.
 
2012-10-09 03:28:47 PM
I'm not sorry to see blue dogs go.
 
2012-10-09 03:30:35 PM
Yay, more centrists! They're the best! Blue dogs are totally not republicans!
 
2012-10-09 03:30:52 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: As reported in the new York times.

Was e ironic tag or he hypocrite tag unavailable?


Well that tears it then! This must mean we need more partisanship if the NYT says it's a bad thing!
 
2012-10-09 03:32:09 PM
They sound like a bunch of red commies!
 
2012-10-09 03:32:11 PM

Nadie_AZ: And THIS is why it is so god damned important to focus on 'grass roots' like the Tea Party has done.


Sorry. There is no problem to which the solution is the Tea Party, unless the problem is "I wish there were more crazy people on TV"
 
2012-10-09 03:32:18 PM
Partisanship is the enemy? That's just what a pinko-socialist muslim-hugging website like MSNBC wants you to believe. No clicky for them!
 
2012-10-09 03:32:26 PM
A group of Democrats who are centrists, known as Blue Dogs, have been all but eviscerated from the House over the last few elections, and now three who have been in the Republicans' cross hairs for years are fighting uphill battles for re-election.

No. Blue Dogs are NOT centrists. They exist only to patronize old or dead staunch conservatives who never evolved to bother understanding either parties' platform.
 
2012-10-09 03:32:51 PM

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Oh, and FARK the blue dogs. [www.waynebesen.com image 600x486]

Totally worthless, they deserve the door to hit them on the ass as hard as possible on the way out. We got the right's watered down health care plan thanks to them. The centrist plan was the government option, which noone really in their right mind would oppose unless they were thoroughly brainwashed. Single payer, there are definitely plenty of good arguments against. The government option should have been the compromise. Fark the blue dogs for not letting it happen.

The Democrats (at least the mainstream ones like Obama) ARE the centrists these days. There is no left.


The other guys are so partisan! Not my guys! We are not partisan! Just the other guys!

/!
 
2012-10-09 03:34:22 PM
mommylife.net
 
2012-10-09 03:36:00 PM

SpectroBoy: Nadie_AZ: And THIS is why it is so god damned important to focus on 'grass roots' like the Tea Party has done.

Sorry. There is no problem to which the solution is the Tea Party, unless the problem is "I wish there were more crazy people on TV"


I'm not giving them love for anything more than their ability to organize at a local level. Progressives need to start doing this. Again. I thought I felt a faint whisper of it back in '07 and '08, but it seemed to disappear when Obama was elected.
 
2012-10-09 03:38:48 PM
Oh for fark's sake, don't tell me that the Blue Dogs are trying to change the meaning of "Centrist" and "Moderate" like the local trolls changed the meaning of "Independent." Goddamnit, I'm running out of words here.
 
2012-10-09 03:42:32 PM
Step 1: Remove the Senate entirely. It was a great idea at the time, back when the various states really were independent governments joined together in a union, and a compromise was necessary in order to prevent populous states from dominating the new federal government. But we are well past that, now. No one from Missouri has killed anyone just for being from Kansas in over a century. The 14th Amendment ensures the states must protect all of the rights that the federal government must protect. The notion of the republic is kind of quaint, now, and we are much more mobile. The Senate is no longer necessary. At a minimum, constitutionally mandate majority votes for everything not explicitly requiring a super-majority. Take away their filibuster toy, and they'll start moving legislation.

Step 2: Remove the state's ability to gerrymander by requiring proportional voting methods for congressional elections. If your state has 10 congressmen, then you get 10 votes to distribute among whatever candidates you like. Like one guy a lot? Give him all 10. Like two guys? Split it up five votes each. Or one vote for 10 different people. Top vote getters go to congress. This will moderate the candidates by requiring them to appeal to a broader selection of voters, and eliminate the state legislature's ability to gerrymander a candidate they don't like out of office.
 
2012-10-09 03:43:03 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: Oh for fark's sake, don't tell me that the Blue Dogs are trying to change the meaning of "Centrist" and "Moderate" like the local trolls changed the meaning of "Independent." Goddamnit, I'm running out of words here.


Don't forget how they changed the meanings of "conservative" and "liberal".

/Yes, there is a conservative party in America.
//They're called Democrats.
 
2012-10-09 03:43:06 PM
Fark this bullshiat with the Blue Dog Democrats. Call them what they really are: Bought Off Democrats, such as Sen. Evan Bayh ("D" - Indiana) who objected to the health care reform act. Why? Well, it surely had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that his wife sat on several boards, including that of Wellpoint. Good farking riddance to the whole lot of them, and maybe we can have a political movement other than Republican and Republican Lite.
 
2012-10-09 03:43:20 PM
"Unless it's OUR party."
 
2012-10-09 03:43:42 PM
So we get right into the political ramifications of the quote and don't have any fun whatsoever with the fact that the quote comes from Arnold Schwarzenegger? Come on people.
 
2012-10-09 03:45:41 PM

Mantour: [mommylife.net image 220x337]


Wonder what Michael Graham has to say on the Occupy movement.

Oh, yeah, he thinks they're an angry mob.

/IOKIYAR
 
2012-10-09 03:46:14 PM

FreakinB: So we get right into the political ramifications of the quote and don't have any fun whatsoever with the fact that the quote comes from Arnold Schwarzenegger? Come on people.


What more punchlines can be made of Schwarzenegger that Schwarzenegger isn't capable of making by himself? The only bigger joke than the Governator is all those idiotic Californians who voted for him. What?! A former bodybuilder DIDN'T know how to fix your state's financial woes? I'm shocked, I really am.
 
2012-10-09 03:49:01 PM

EyeballKid: What?! A former bodybuilder DIDN'T know how to fix your state's financial woes? I'm shocked, I really am.


Ahahaha

I like that his plan was essentially identical to Davis' plan that got him recalled.
 
2012-10-09 03:51:07 PM

EyeballKid: FreakinB: So we get right into the political ramifications of the quote and don't have any fun whatsoever with the fact that the quote comes from Arnold Schwarzenegger? Come on people.

What more punchlines can be made of Schwarzenegger that Schwarzenegger isn't capable of making by himself? The only bigger joke than the Governator is all those idiotic Californians who voted for him. What?! A former bodybuilder HotWingConspiracy: EyeballKid: What?! A former bodybuilder DIDN'T know how to fix your state's financial woes? I'm shocked, I really am.

Ahahaha

I like that his plan was essentially identical to Davis' plan that got him recalled.

DIDN'T know how to fix your state's financial woes? I'm shocked, I really am.


Like I said, come on people. Not even a "It's replaced the T-1000 as the #1 enemy?" Just for shiats and giggles?
 
2012-10-09 03:51:17 PM
let me guess: both sides are equally bad, right? can't go criticizing republicans alone, right?

the GOP invented modern partisanship. it sprang from lee atwater's bosom and was nurtured and perfected by tom delay and newt gingrich. it was taught to speak by frank luntz. and it was trained as a suicide bomber in the madrassas of mitch mcconnell and john boehner.
 
2012-10-09 03:51:47 PM
I really farked that post up. Damn.
 
2012-10-09 03:52:31 PM
Partisanship is the number one enemy. We should all stand together with the Republicans.
 
2012-10-09 03:55:01 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: Oh for fark's sake, don't tell me that the Blue Dogs are trying to change the meaning of "Centrist" and "Moderate" like the local trolls changed the meaning of "Independent." Goddamnit, I'm running out of words here.


Blue Dogs: Hey guys! Hey guys! You need to compromise with us!
Democrats: Aren't you Democrats? Shouldn't you already be on our side?
Blue Dogs: We're moderates!
Democrats: Um, ok. So what's your suggestion for compromise?
Blue Dogs: We should do whatever the Republicans say.
Democrats: What?
Blue Dogs: If we don't, Sean Hannity might call us the L-word.
Democrats: Lesbian?
Blue Dogs: No, the other one!
Democrats: Liberal?
Blue Dogs: SHHH! Don't say it out loud! Voters might hear!
Democrats: Who cares what Sean Hannity says?
Blue Dogs: You don't have to get so defensive!
Democrats: Being a moderate doesn't mean you take money from the Democrats and then vote with Republicans on every issue.
Blue Dogs: Um...
Democrats: If you don't agree with anything in the party platform, then why did you join the Democrats in the first place?
Blue Dogs: Well... the Tea Party said we were too moderate.
Democrats: So no one likes you then?
Blue Dogs: Our moms like us.
Democrats: If no one likes you and you don't stand for anything, what makes you think you can be a power broker in Congress?
Blue Dogs: Because we're moderate!
Democrats: No, you're opportunists. We're trying to solve some serious issues and you just want to float on the political winds.
Blue Dogs: Moderate!
Voters: These guys are douchebags. We might as well just vote for Republicans.
Blue Dogs: Hey!
Democrats: haha
Blue Dogs: This is your fault!
Democrats: How is it our fault?
Blue Dogs: Because you're too liberal!
Democrats: If that's so bad, why did we keep our seats and you were voted out?
Blue Dogs: Um...
Banks: Hey, want to be on our boards?
Blue Dogs: Yipee!
Democrats: Douchebags.
 
2012-10-09 03:55:18 PM

FlashHarry: let me guess: both sides are equally bad, right? can't go criticizing republicans alone, right?


Well, look at both sides. Dubya and his cronies villified several veterans for political purposes, ramped up Arab fear, ignored a drowning city, outed a covert agent, caused two wars that were left off the books while he was in office, and gave Goldman Sachs an honorary position in our legislature.

Bill Maher once made fun of Sarah Palin.


See? It's like different sides to the same coin!
 
2012-10-09 03:55:33 PM

badaboom: Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Oh, and FARK the blue dogs. [www.waynebesen.com image 600x486]

Totally worthless, they deserve the door to hit them on the ass as hard as possible on the way out. We got the right's watered down health care plan thanks to them. The centrist plan was the government option, which noone really in their right mind would oppose unless they were thoroughly brainwashed. Single payer, there are definitely plenty of good arguments against. The government option should have been the compromise. Fark the blue dogs for not letting it happen.

The Democrats (at least the mainstream ones like Obama) ARE the centrists these days. There is no left.

The other guys are so partisan! Not my guys! We are not partisan! Just the other guys!

/!


I'm no democrat, never will be. Was a Republican (voted McCain 2000 primaries, Bush 2000 election, Schwarzenegger twice) but got disgusted by the direction Rove and Rumsfeld took my old party so now I'm "decline to state".

I'd love for there to be more representation of true conservative ideals, libertarian ideals, green ideals, centrist ideals, heck even socialist ideals, even though I don't necessarily agree with them. We need to have some vigorous intellectual debate in this country, and all options should be on the table. Demonizing that which you don't understand and creating untouchable platforms isn't servings us anymore.

What I really dislike is the overton window effect that the 'right' has had on the political landscape, so that they not only pulled their party off the rails (whatever happened to fiscal conservancy and/or compromise?), but in the process pulled the left over the middle and turned themselves into caricatures of what conservatism truly represents.
 
2012-10-09 03:56:11 PM

Rent Party: No one from Missouri has killed anyone just for being from Kansas in over a century.


Not from lack of desire.
 
2012-10-09 03:57:12 PM

FlashHarry: let me guess: both sides are equally bad, right? can't go criticizing republicans alone, right?


As far as I could tell, it's 90% "Democrats are bad" to 10% "Republicans are bad but not as bad as Democrats," and therefore the exact opposite of reality, but my eyes rolled right out of their sockets and I haven't found them both yet so I only got about half-way through.
 
2012-10-09 03:57:35 PM

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: I'm no democrat, never will be. Was a Republican (voted McCain 2000 primaries, Bush 2000 election, Schwarzenegger twice


Remind me some time to ask you advice on the opposite of what I should do.
 
2012-10-09 04:00:56 PM

IlGreven: Don't forget how they changed the meanings of "conservative" and "liberal".


Also true. Double-point bonus for "Ten or so moderate Democrats" despite there being no left-wing Democrats that I'm aware of.
 
2012-10-09 04:03:17 PM

EyeballKid: Ayn Rand's Social Worker: I'm no democrat, never will be. Was a Republican (voted McCain 2000 primaries, Bush 2000 election, Schwarzenegger twice

Remind me some time to ask you advice on the opposite of what I should do.


Notice the dates. I was early 20s, actually bought the whole PNAC rhetoric and compassionate conservative, socially liberal fiscally conservative, diverse advisory team (remember Powell and Rice) line.

Things have changed. Now I vote my conscience regardless of party. Still prefer some modicum of fiscal restraint, coupled with "stay the fark out of people's private lives" social policy. Not enough politicians out there that represent that. Seems both the left and right are warmongering, free-spending nanny staters. Fark the lot of them...
 
2012-10-09 04:06:32 PM

EyeballKid: What more punchlines can be made of Schwarzenegger that Schwarzenegger isn't capable of making by himself? The only bigger joke than the Governator is all those idiotic Californians who voted for him. What?! A former bodybuilder DIDN'T know how to fix your state's financial woes? I'm shocked, I really am.


In fairness, nobody can save California. They have a direct democracy. They're f*cked.
 
2012-10-09 04:09:16 PM
Hey guise! I'm here to inflict my opinion on you.
 
2012-10-09 04:12:15 PM

Holocaust Agnostic: Centrism is worse.


Depends on what you mean by "centrism". The Democratic Party is, by the standards of post-WWII politics, the centrist party; they're not as pro-union as they used to be* and nobody is willing to propose the high marginal tax rates of a Francois Hollande or even Richard Nixon. More than a few are willing to play ball with big corporations and moneyed interests. On the other hand, the Republican Party is taken over by Biblical literalists, Objectivists / faux libertarians, and global warming denialists, all of whom refuse to regard such petty things like "facts" or "history"** when considering legislation. Some would call compromising with these Republicans "centrism"; but by any historical measure such a compromise would be solidly in the right side of the political spectrum.

*see Rahm Emmanuel's face-off with the Chicago teacher's union
**actual history, not mythologized history
 
2012-10-09 04:13:15 PM
"the dearth of moderates"

Anyone else catch this?
 
2012-10-09 04:13:27 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: IlGreven: Don't forget how they changed the meanings of "conservative" and "liberal".

Also true. Double-point bonus for "Ten or so moderate Democrats" despite there being no left-wing Democrats that I'm aware of.


Kucinich?
 
2012-10-09 04:14:30 PM

Arkanaut: Kucinich?


He got gerrymandered out. Republican "democracy" in action.
 
2012-10-09 04:16:26 PM

Arkanaut: Kucinich?


Honestly, I know next to nothing about that guy, since he's rarely in the news. Hence "That I'm aware of." :)
 
2012-10-09 04:17:11 PM

EyeballKid: FreakinB: So we get right into the political ramifications of the quote and don't have any fun whatsoever with the fact that the quote comes from Arnold Schwarzenegger? Come on people.

What more punchlines can be made of Schwarzenegger that Schwarzenegger isn't capable of making by himself? The only bigger joke than the Governator is all those idiotic Californians who voted for him. What?! A former bodybuilder DIDN'T know how to fix your state's financial woes? I'm shocked, I really am.


"The (Governor) is always a controversial choice, always an infuriating but fascinating character. His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it."
 
2012-10-09 04:21:26 PM

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: EyeballKid: FreakinB: So we get right into the political ramifications of the quote and don't have any fun whatsoever with the fact that the quote comes from Arnold Schwarzenegger? Come on people.

What more punchlines can be made of Schwarzenegger that Schwarzenegger isn't capable of making by himself? The only bigger joke than the Governator is all those idiotic Californians who voted for him. What?! A former bodybuilder DIDN'T know how to fix your state's financial woes? I'm shocked, I really am.

"The (Governor) is always a controversial choice, always an infuriating but fascinating character. His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it."


So let me ask you this. Why did you vote for Arnie, and not Gary Coleman in that election?
 
2012-10-09 04:26:05 PM

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Oh, and FARK the blue dogs. [www.waynebesen.com image 600x486]

Totally worthless, they deserve the door to hit them on the ass as hard as possible on the way out. We got the right's watered down health care plan thanks to them. The centrist plan was the government option, which noone really in their right mind would oppose unless they were thoroughly brainwashed. Single payer, there are definitely plenty of good arguments against. The government option should have been the compromise. Fark the blue dogs for not letting it happen.

The Democrats (at least the mainstream ones like Obama) ARE the centrists these days. There is no left.


anyone who refers to the PPACA as *fixing* healthcare is an idiot and a partisan douche. and the problem isn't partisanship, it is the fact that both parties first and foremost tailor every piece of legislation so it satifies the monied rent seekers. PPACA is the perfect example. It could have been written by HCA. In fact that is who obama cut the deal with to kill the public option, HCA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_Corporation_of_America
 
2012-10-09 04:26:52 PM
It's okay to be partisan. What isn't okay is to be partisan to the exclusion of all else (including the needs and desires of your constituents).
 
2012-10-09 04:27:41 PM
Isn't working with Democrats how the country ended up with a $16trillion debt and a $1.6 trillion annual budget deficit? And you can blame RINOs for that as well.

Where are the people that actually want to cut spending? We need around 525 of those and just have a few token libs around to make fun up their failed philosophy that they continue to pimp.
 
2012-10-09 04:32:52 PM
No, willful ignorance is the enemy. The inability to decipher between truth and fiction, and the mental laziness that accepts what you're told without a shred of critical thinking. The unwillingness to allow your views to change based on current realities - THAT is the enemy. Partisanship is part of the problem, but it's a symptom rather than a cause. And you're crazy if you think both sides have it in equal quantities.
 
2012-10-09 04:34:40 PM

MeinRS6: Isn't working with Democrats how the country ended up with a $16trillion debt and a $1.6 trillion annual budget deficit? And you can blame RINOs for that as well.

Where are the people that actually want to cut spending? We need around 525 of those and just have a few token libs around to make fun up their failed philosophy that they continue to pimp.


Name 1 business that is not hiring because the national debt is too big.
 
2012-10-09 04:35:05 PM
Frankly, it seems to me that DDDDEEEEERRRPPPPPPP is the number one enemy. Since facts now are labeled conservative and liberal, there are no facts.

THAT is the enemy.
 
2012-10-09 04:37:26 PM

MeinRS6: Where are the people that actually want to cut spending?


Spending isn't the problem, the economy is the problem. Fighting the deficit at this point will do nothing but make that problem worse. Europe has pretty much proven that point.
 
2012-10-09 04:38:40 PM

Ambivalence: It's okay to be partisan. What isn't okay is to be partisan to the exclusion of all else (including the needs and desires of your constituents).


problems arise when people abandon their ideology in order to serve groups whose interests are diametrically opposed to the vast majority of our society. when that happens you get 1.2 million illegal aliens with brand new work permits even though we have 8% unemployment and have had it for years and years, or medicare part D with no governmental negotiation on price, or the PPACA with no drug re-importation, no public option (and therefore no government negotiation on price), and no cost controls, or no bid contracts for Halliburton. it's the selling out of the american public. I Think we'd probably do better with direct democracy at his point.
 
2012-10-09 04:48:14 PM
WRONG submitter, liberals are the number one enemy, QED
 
2012-10-09 04:50:15 PM

relcec: I Think we'd probably do better with direct democracy at his point.


You'll quickly become disabused of that notion.
 
2012-10-09 04:54:18 PM
I blame Democrats for hyper-partisanship.
 
2012-10-09 04:54:37 PM

Jackson Herring: WRONG submitter, liberals are the number one enemy, QED


img.photobucket.com

WORD, biatchiz.
 
2012-10-09 04:56:01 PM
THIS is the No. 1 enemy:

i262.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-09 05:00:49 PM

Blathering Idjut: MeinRS6: Where are the people that actually want to cut spending?

Spending isn't the problem, the economy is the problem.


Shirely, you must be joking.
 
2012-10-09 05:01:05 PM

MeinRS6: Isn't working with Democrats how the country ended up with a $16trillion debt and a $1.6 trillion annual budget deficit?


Not really:

i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-09 05:05:44 PM

relcec: I Think we'd probably do better with direct democracy at his point.


What a direct democracy in the US might look like.
 
2012-10-09 05:24:05 PM
...right. The Blue Dogs were the vestigial remnant of Southern Democracy, dingleberries clinging to the ass of a party long-washed from the strench and filth of Jim Crow, and were rightfully exorcised in the 2010 election.

Now, we're left with two parties. A right-leaning centrist party and an angry mob of chicken-farking, rabid, borderline right-wing extremist morons.
 
2012-10-09 05:43:34 PM

Nadie_AZ: I'm not giving them love for anything more than their ability to organize at a local level. Progressives need to start doing this. Again. I thought I felt a faint whisper of it back in '07 and '08, but it seemed to disappear when Obama was elected.


Fair enough.

There was a time when I thought occupy might be something.
 
2012-10-09 05:46:34 PM

Rent Party: Ayn Rand's Social Worker: EyeballKid: FreakinB: So we get right into the political ramifications of the quote and don't have any fun whatsoever with the fact that the quote comes from Arnold Schwarzenegger? Come on people.

What more punchlines can be made of Schwarzenegger that Schwarzenegger isn't capable of making by himself? The only bigger joke than the Governator is all those idiotic Californians who voted for him. What?! A former bodybuilder DIDN'T know how to fix your state's financial woes? I'm shocked, I really am.

"The (Governor) is always a controversial choice, always an infuriating but fascinating character. His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it."

So let me ask you this. Why did you vote for Arnie, and not Gary Coleman in that election?


Arnie's a fun punchline, but his politics were actually pretty down the middle. Social liberal, fiscal conservative, willing to work with his opponents, trying to cut costs without ignoring the human element. Plus a great personality, hilarious speaker (both intentionally and unintentionally), and a classic bootstrap story.

He's really the ultimate politician. AND killing machine. You can't beat that.

As far as I'm concerned, guys like Obama and Arnie are the best politicians we got. You can disagree with their style, but their politics are solid. Mitt's politics aren't much different, but his style is horrible. Dude couldn't be worse at foreign policy, and his riches to more riches story is everything thats wrong with America.

Arnie's biggest problem was not standing up to the Democrats enough, coupled with not figuring out how to untie his hands from all of our poorly thought out initiatives and budget constraints. Obama's problem has been not standing up to the Republicans enough, coupled with not figuring out how to get the corporate media to stop making him out to be the opposite of what he actually is.

Romney's problem is that he's everything wrong with America. The only redeeming quality he has is that he is a moderate Republican willing to work with Democrats, but since he has no spine he'll do whatever is politically expedient and he'll end up getting played like Rupert Murdoch and the Koch Brothers' proverbial fiddle, just like Bush II did...
 
2012-10-09 05:48:29 PM

SpectroBoy: Nadie_AZ: I'm not giving them love for anything more than their ability to organize at a local level. Progressives need to start doing this. Again. I thought I felt a faint whisper of it back in '07 and '08, but it seemed to disappear when Obama was elected.

Fair enough.

There was a time when I thought occupy might be something.


They had momentum. Yeah, you are right.
 
2012-10-09 05:49:59 PM
Yes, we should compromise with people who think that the Earth is 9000 years old; that climate change is a myth; that you balance budgets by cutting taxes; that you enhance your prestige overseas by invading oil-rich countries on specious pretexts; that lady parts can "shut that whole thing down" when they're "legitimately raped"; that teh ghey is a threat to your own marriage; that green energy is a UN conspiracy; that "small government" means "keep yer gubbmint hands off my Medicare"; that Democrats only want to hand out welfare checks to people who promise never to work; that taxpaying immigrants should be denied education, health care, food, oxygen.

I'm sure there is compromise to be found between planet Earth and the outer regions of the constellation Derpia. It mostly involves moving the Earth to the outer regions of the constellation Derpia.

/and by mostly I mean entirely
 
2012-10-09 06:08:31 PM
partisanship isn't as bad as the fact that they're all bought and paid for ...and it's totally legal.
 
2012-10-09 06:11:11 PM

MeinRS6: Isn't working with Democrats how the country ended up with a $16trillion debt and a $1.6 trillion annual budget deficit? And you can blame RINOs for that as well.

Where are the people that actually want to cut spending? We need around 525 of those and just have a few token libs around to make fun up their failed philosophy that they continue to pimp.


Obama offered up 4 trillion in spending cuts. But the GOP walked from it because it didn't include tax cuts for the 1%
 
2012-10-09 06:14:35 PM
Want to know the best way to get rid of government-breaking partisanship? Have more than two viable parties. And the only way we're ever going to get that is if we change our voting to ranked-choice voting. This is the only way that people will not be throwing away their vote when they choose a third-party candidate. A binary system is very easy to break. Forcing coalitions means people who are willing to compromise can compromise.
 
2012-10-09 06:47:18 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: Oh for fark's sake, don't tell me that the Blue Dogs are trying to change the meaning of "Centrist" and "Moderate" like the local trolls changed the meaning of "Independent." Goddamnit, I'm running out of words here.


Oh, looky what we got here. Well, Mr. "Professor," with your "logical arguments" they taught you at that fancy "elitist university" that "educated you." We don't take kindly to your ideas about "compromise" and "negotiation."
 
2012-10-09 07:46:20 PM

Hobodeluxe: MeinRS6: Isn't working with Democrats how the country ended up with a $16trillion debt and a $1.6 trillion annual budget deficit? And you can blame RINOs for that as well.

Where are the people that actually want to cut spending? We need around 525 of those and just have a few token libs around to make fun up their failed philosophy that they continue to pimp.

Obama offered up 4 trillion in spending cuts. But the GOP walked from it because it didn't include tax cuts for the 1%


This is what liberals actually believe. lulz
 
2012-10-09 08:00:43 PM
No, the real enemy is epistemological deadlock and the resulting bad-faith debate. Partisanship is an especially egregious manifestation of this deeper problem, but it is still only one of many.
 
2012-10-09 08:32:28 PM
My best friend is a republican. I'm a democrat. I can tell this, because when we go out to breakfast once a month or so, he asks for the business section of the newspaper first, and I take the news section. After 10 minutes, we swap. It works out kind of well; we save a buck on the paper, and he's always got something interesting to tell me, or vice versa.

But to listen to the bomb-throwing maniacs on TV and the radio, he's clearly a bigoted religious fanatic who probably rapes boys, and I'm a bong-smoking communist intent on killing a god whose existence I deny. And then I'm supposed to rape someone, I think.

I honestly think it's mostly due to the presence of a very profitable media market that operates around the clock screaming that he's trying to bring back Hitler, and I'm trying to bring back Marx. And the raping of stereotype-appropriate imaginary people.
 
2012-10-09 09:21:38 PM
While Americans say they want an end to partisan bickering in Washington, Mr. Cooper said, they vote to maintain the system that has created it. "It's like Hollywood movies," he said. "Most people say there is too much violence and sex, but those are the only tickets that sell."

But hey, go rock that vote and keep it down party lines because the other side is evil. Every time you farking vote for the lesser of two evils, you're not sending the message that both are evil - you're sending the message that no matter what you'll still provide a vote.

Learn to farking abstain.
 
2012-10-09 09:36:20 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: While Americans say they want an end to partisan bickering in Washington, Mr. Cooper said, they vote to maintain the system that has created it. "It's like Hollywood movies," he said. "Most people say there is too much violence and sex, but those are the only tickets that sell."

But hey, go rock that vote and keep it down party lines because the other side is evil. Every time you farking vote for the lesser of two evils, you're not sending the message that both are evil - you're sending the message that no matter what you'll still provide a vote.

Learn to farking abstain.


We already have the lowest voter turnout in any democracy. Refusing to vote doesn't send a message to anyone.
 
2012-10-09 11:23:39 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: While Americans say they want an end to partisan bickering in Washington, Mr. Cooper said, they vote to maintain the system that has created it. "It's like Hollywood movies," he said. "Most people say there is too much violence and sex, but those are the only tickets that sell."

But hey, go rock that vote and keep it down party lines because the other side is evil. Every time you farking vote for the lesser of two evils, you're not sending the message that both are evil - you're sending the message that no matter what you'll still provide a vote.

Learn to farking abstain.


I don't know if you've been following Republican voter id laws, but they want you to abstain from voting. Involuntarily, if necessary.
 
2012-10-10 02:14:22 AM
if we could just eliminate the morons in the republican party and the half the country plus 1 big bird that prefers them, we could have all the nonpartisanship we want
 
2012-10-10 03:08:35 AM

MeinRS6: Isn't working with Democrats how the country ended up with a $16trillion debt and a $1.6 trillion annual budget deficit? And you can blame RINOs for that as well.

Where are the people that actually want to cut spending? We need around 525 of those and just have a few token libs around to make fun up their failed philosophy that they continue to pimp.


No. You know very well that is not correct.

Bill Clinton presided over budget surpluses.

Ronald Reagan, who campaigned to balance the budget, and George W Bush both ran up record deficits.

Most of Obama's contribution to the national debt stems from Bush's wars and Bush's recession.

You know this very well don't you?

You are demonstrating very clearly why partisanship is a bad thing. It takes away people's moral and intellectual responsibility to reality.
 
2012-10-10 07:47:18 AM

MisterTweak: My best friend is a republican. I'm a democrat. I can tell this, because when we go out to breakfast once a month or so, he asks for the business section of the newspaper first, and I take the news section. After 10 minutes, we swap. It works out kind of well; we save a buck on the paper, and he's always got something interesting to tell me, or vice versa.

But to listen to the bomb-throwing maniacs on TV and the radio, he's clearly a bigoted religious fanatic who probably rapes boys, and I'm a bong-smoking communist intent on killing a god whose existence I deny. And then I'm supposed to rape someone, I think.

I honestly think it's mostly due to the presence of a very profitable media market that operates around the clock screaming that he's trying to bring back Hitler, and I'm trying to bring back Marx. And the raping of stereotype-appropriate imaginary people.


Does your friend imagine that gay marriage threatens his own marriage? Does he imagine that his party reduced the deficit, or even TRIED to reduce the deficit, at any time in his life? Does he imagine that his party doesn't talk about the evils of social spending while at the same time promising that senior voters won't have their benefits touched? Does he imagine that his party does not, to this day, try to present the Iraq Murder Party as a fine, brave, noble thing?

Hitler? No. Liars? Yes.
 
2012-10-10 08:25:04 AM
I wouldn't be so partisan if the Democrats were such socialists!
 
2012-10-10 10:02:35 AM

Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Romney's problem is that he's everything wrong with America. The only redeeming quality he has is that he is a moderate Republican willing to work with Democrats, but since he has no spine he'll do whatever is politically expedient and he'll end up getting played like Rupert Murdoch and the Koch Brothers' proverbial fiddle, just like Bush II did...


That's exactly what scares me the most about Romney and the biggest reason I could never vote for him.
 
2012-10-10 11:29:15 AM
if we continue down that path of polarization as we are, then we will eventually be whigs and tories. This will be followed by another revolution.
 
2012-10-10 01:55:13 PM
Partisanship, in the form of a focus on team alliance and positioning rather than facts and objective truth, is the enemy. Unfortunately, the average "centrist" is at least as guilty of this as the average extremist.
 
2012-10-10 03:35:52 PM

urbangirl: Ayn Rand's Social Worker: Romney's problem is that he's everything wrong with America. The only redeeming quality he has is that he is a moderate Republican willing to work with Democrats, but since he has no spine he'll do whatever is politically expedient and he'll end up getting played like Rupert Murdoch and the Koch Brothers' proverbial fiddle, just like Bush II did...

That's exactly what scares me the most about Romney and the biggest reason I could never vote for him.


You and me both sister. The White House ain't the Massachusetts governor's mansion... Mitt will be worse than Shrub II...
 
2012-10-11 12:54:38 PM

Kibbler: MisterTweak: My best friend is a republican. I'm a democrat. I can tell this, because when we go out to breakfast once a month or so, he asks for the business section of the newspaper first, and I take the news section. After 10 minutes, we swap. It works out kind of well; we save a buck on the paper, and he's always got something interesting to tell me, or vice versa.

But to listen to the bomb-throwing maniacs on TV and the radio, he's clearly a bigoted religious fanatic who probably rapes boys, and I'm a bong-smoking communist intent on killing a god whose existence I deny. And then I'm supposed to rape someone, I think.

I honestly think it's mostly due to the presence of a very profitable media market that operates around the clock screaming that he's trying to bring back Hitler, and I'm trying to bring back Marx. And the raping of stereotype-appropriate imaginary people.

Does your friend imagine that gay marriage threatens his own marriage? Does he imagine that his party reduced the deficit, or even TRIED to reduce the deficit, at any time in his life? Does he imagine that his party doesn't talk about the evils of social spending while at the same time promising that senior voters won't have their benefits touched? Does he imagine that his party does not, to this day, try to present the Iraq Murder Party as a fine, brave, noble thing?

Hitler? No. Liars? Yes.


No, actually, he doesn't. He has pretty much the same interests as me: getting to work safely on a paved road, better management of airports, etc. Where we differ is, I probably am more concerned about the impact on the public of how private lands are used (gas/oil drilling, etc) while he is more concerned about regulatory impact (i.e. the "takings" clause) I'd say one third the time he makes a good case that I'm worrying about something I shouldn't, one third the time he's trying to remove an obstacle that doesn't actually exist, and one third the time we can't solve a global problem before the check arrives.
 
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