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(Wired)   Happy 50th birthday, visible light LED. Here's to all the people who said you'd never work and would be of no use   (wired.com) divider line 184
    More: Cool, Bell Labs, LEDs, Reader's Digest, incandescent light bulb, celebrations  
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10543 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Oct 2012 at 3:25 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-09 04:42:13 PM

The Incredible Sexual Egg: LED Christmas lights are awful


/There, I said it


LED Christmas lights are interesting because for indoor use in a cold climate, I don't see the point. The energy "wasted" on the old lights helped heat the space they were in so are the LEDs really more efficient? It's nice in Georgia to not have a bunch of light bulbs around the house throwing out heat the eight or nine air conditioning months of the year but for lights used only in December, LEDs seem like the wrong tool.

Of course there are other issues such as too many lights on the tree catching things on fire and the ever popular too much current being drawn through the extension cord house fire. But from an energy point of view, I agree LED Christmas lights suck... plus the cheap ones flicker.
 
2012-10-09 04:43:19 PM

midigod: Rapmaster2000: did you know that there's more Gallium Arsenide in a single LED than there was on the entire Hindenburg!?

That sounds very interesting. Was there any gallium arsenide in the Hindenburg at all?


Probably naturally occurring traces. I just like true but meaningless statements that sound scary.

Did you know that there is more Gallium Arsenide in a single LED than there was in the atomic bomb they dropped on Nagasaki?! Look it up. It's true.
 
2012-10-09 04:45:56 PM

orezona: You may find this interesting...


Coming soon to a tween near you... shorts with "HOT" written in flame script on the butt that illuminates red and blinks.
 
2012-10-09 04:46:24 PM

Wook: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Wook:
Funny, I was a semiconductor process engineer for 10 years. Our company folded about 2 years ago. I went into Defense. Approximately 7 of my research colleagues took jobs in Solar. Only one of them is currently working. All of the other Solar companies have folded. Solar is good assuming you have cheap labor. Manufacturing in the US is expensive. Excessive regulations and Unions don't help either.

Keep your Wharrgarbl to yourself Sonny, the world ain't unicorns and rainbows!



There are several successful solar companies right in my area. Are the panels cost effective? They have a ROI of something like 10 years right now, so it's debatable. Research is also constantly continuing.

your statement that solar is "total bullshiat" is still retarded no matter what your experiences are in the solar industry.

AKA WHARRGARBL.

LOL Applied Materials (Solar Division), Calisolar, Skyline Solar, Solyndra, Mia Sole......Gone

Research? SVTC gone!!!


You're cute.


Circuit City [Stores] went out of business. This is irrefutable proof that the consumer electronics industry is bullshiat.

Chiefs_11: They are sheets of edge-lit glass with dimples in them.


That's actually pretty clever.

/I still like VFDs better for 7-seg though
 
2012-10-09 04:48:02 PM

GoldSpider: Shazam999: Sorry man, quoted the wrong message. Although I swear as God is my witness that I chose choo's post.

[unholidaycards.com image 320x417]


GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
 
2012-10-09 04:48:45 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: theorellior: The All-Powerful Atheismo: To claim that "solar is total bullshiat" remains just as retarded as it ever was no matter what companies you cite that have gone out of business.

But sochalest death panels libtard islamofascism!

"Merrill Lynch, Wachovia, Bear Stearns, AIG. MONEY IS TOTAL BULLSHIAT"


This could be fun.

Cars are total bullshiat! Tucker, Packard, Geo, Plymouth, AMC, Overland, Hummer, Nash, Oldsmobile, Studebaker.

Airlines are total bullshiat! Aloha Airlines, Arrow Air, Big Sky Airlines, PanAm, TWA,
 
2012-10-09 04:56:51 PM

EngineerAU: The Incredible Sexual Egg: LED Christmas lights are awful


/There, I said it

LED Christmas lights are interesting because for indoor use in a cold climate, I don't see the point. The energy "wasted" on the old lights helped heat the space they were in so are the LEDs really more efficient? It's nice in Georgia to not have a bunch of light bulbs around the house throwing out heat the eight or nine air conditioning months of the year but for lights used only in December, LEDs seem like the wrong tool.

Of course there are other issues such as too many lights on the tree catching things on fire and the ever popular too much current being drawn through the extension cord house fire. But from an energy point of view, I agree LED Christmas lights suck... plus the cheap ones flicker.


They're not a heating device, so yes they're more efficient at their function. If you want to take light and heat as a whole measure, you've got to add a dedicated heater with an input power that's the difference between the incandescent strand and the LED strand. In that setup, they probably come pretty close to breaking even by definition.

When you want the heating, you have the saved power to do heating. When you don't want heating, you don't have to burn energy to run AC to counteract the heating. So, break even in the cold months and reductions in power on both sides in the warm. Seems like a pretty clear winner.

/But yeah, the flicker sucks
 
2012-10-09 04:57:19 PM

Rapmaster2000: The libs want us to put all of these LED bulbs in our houses, but did you know that there's more Gallium Arsenide in a single LED than there was on the entire Hindenburg!?

It's true. Look it up.

[o.onionstatic.com image 630x441]


And somewhere, Tesla is laughing.
 
2012-10-09 05:00:53 PM

L.D. Ablo: Wouldn't have been possible without L.E.D.s:

[www.gadgetreview.com image 650x338]

A miracle of science!


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-09 05:08:10 PM

EngineerAU: LED Christmas lights are interesting because for indoor use in a cold climate, I don't see the point.


Maybe it's because LED blue is spectrally pure while the incandescent filter color is more green?
 
2012-10-09 05:10:21 PM

HAMMERTOE: /Not too bright, and half of them don't work./


Ahem ... not half: 47% of them don't work.
 
2012-10-09 05:13:31 PM

ProfessorOhki: So, break even in the cold months and reductions in power on both sides in the warm


How many people use Christmas lights indoors in July? For the average consumer in the US or Canada, they're used only during the cold months. If you live in a warm climate, yeah, I can see the point, but what percentage of LED Christmas lights are being sold in places where indoor heating is being used during the season in which they're used? My wild guess is at least 80%.
 
2012-10-09 05:16:08 PM

Atomic Spunk: Why is it that LED flashlights and car headlights are very bright, but it's damn near impossible to find an LED lightbulb that is brighter than a 75 watt incandescent?


My dive light retails for $200, my bike light was on sale for $80, and the light I linked to is $600. Pay that for some light bulbs and you'll get some high lumen output.
 
2012-10-09 05:19:38 PM

EngineerAU: ProfessorOhki: So, break even in the cold months and reductions in power on both sides in the warm

How many people use Christmas lights indoors in July? For the average consumer in the US or Canada, they're used only during the cold months. If you live in a warm climate, yeah, I can see the point, but what percentage of LED Christmas lights are being sold in places where indoor heating is being used during the season in which they're used? My wild guess is at least 80%.


Why the fark would I warm up the outdoors? For big displays, you can save hundreds, if not thousands, on your lighting bill. There's a guy in town that upgraded to 400A service to power his Xmas display before everyone went all LED.

/he's obviously more Christian than YOU, heathen scum.
 
2012-10-09 05:19:55 PM

EngineerAU: How many people use Christmas lights indoors in July? For the average consumer in the US or Canada, they're used only during the cold months. If you live in a warm climate, yeah, I can see the point, but what percentage of LED Christmas lights are being sold in places where indoor heating is being used during the season in which they're used? My wild guess is at least 80%.


Who the fark cares about the indoor heating capabilities of Christmas lights? Plus, as I said, LEDs are more spectrally pure. I can understand the flickering being a consideration, at least for cheap strings, but I'm pretty certain a whole lotta people give zero farks about the heat output of their Christmas lights.
 
2012-10-09 05:20:34 PM

EngineerAU: ProfessorOhki: So, break even in the cold months and reductions in power on both sides in the warm

How many people use Christmas lights indoors in July? For the average consumer in the US or Canada, they're used only during the cold months. If you live in a warm climate, yeah, I can see the point, but what percentage of LED Christmas lights are being sold in places where indoor heating is being used during the season in which they're used? My wild guess is at least 80%.


Yeah, hey, as a Canadian, we don't string up Christmas lights in the hopes that it reduces our heating bills.
 
2012-10-09 05:21:22 PM

EngineerAU: ProfessorOhki: So, break even in the cold months and reductions in power on both sides in the warm

How many people use Christmas lights indoors in July? For the average consumer in the US or Canada, they're used only during the cold months. If you live in a warm climate, yeah, I can see the point, but what percentage of LED Christmas lights are being sold in places where indoor heating is being used during the season in which they're used? My wild guess is at least 80%.


Well, they were talking about Georgia, so I assumed 365 days :) Seriously though, if what I said is accurate, that doesn't matter. if 100% are used during cold months, you break even. If even 0.^A% are used in warm months, that still gives LEDs an edge overall. So at worst they'd be "as efficient," but they never actually get beat out by incandescents.

Again, I'm assuming that the difference between the efficiency of the two lights is exactly the heating difference. Which may or may not be true.
 
2012-10-09 05:22:16 PM

Rapmaster2000: The libs want us to put all of these LED bulbs in our houses, but did you know that there's more Gallium Arsenide in a single LED than there was on the entire Hindenburg!?

It's true. Look it up.

[o.onionstatic.com image 630x441]


Sure that may be true, but there are fewer Nazi's in LEDs than the Hindenburg.
 
2012-10-09 05:22:26 PM
Weird, I said ".00001%"
 
2012-10-09 05:27:20 PM

SuperT: SuperT: AugieDoggyDaddy: dittybopper: Meh. You know what's more impressive? A light emitting resistor.

An LER? They've been around for ever. They only work for a fraction of a second before the magic smoke leaks out.

I see what you did there. I lol'd.

wait, aren't regular lightbulbs light emitting resistors?


Truth be told, they're more like light emitting thermistors.
 
2012-10-09 05:31:48 PM

Mad_Radhu: choo: A visible light LED is just like an ATM machine, amiright?


Depends on what kind of ATM machine you are talking about:

[www.popsci.com image 525x400]

[megarobotnews.com image 476x326]


Hey, thread-jacking is bad.

Thread jacking-off is even worse.
 
2012-10-09 05:35:18 PM
I think I should start to favorite people who try to argue that heating a house by using incandescents makes sense. Maybe by labeling them as "retard" or "idiot" - somehow "dumbass" doesn't seem appropriate enough.
 
2012-10-09 05:37:59 PM

Mister Peejay: olddeegee: Question:

At the end of "Goldfinger" the Ft. Knox nuclear bomb ticks down and is stopped by Bond at 007. Was that a simple LED display? Within a year of it's invention?

Re-replying because I found your answer.

Nixie tubes. Awesomest retro device ever.


This. Kinda would work in this day and age, depending on what it's being used for.
 
2012-10-09 05:39:52 PM

Chiefs_11: jfarkinB: olddeegee: At the end of "Goldfinger" the Ft. Knox nuclear bomb ticks down and is stopped by Bond at 007. Was that a simple LED display? Within a year of it's invention?

No, those looked like Nixie tubes -- basically a neon bulb with ten electrodes, one for each digit. But looking more closely now at a movie still, it almost looks like a fiber-optic arrangement with incandescent light:

[007.graphicallstars.com image 690x300]

I think the individual dots are too small to be individual "grain-of-wheat" incandescent bulbs. I'll have to look into this a little more.

/lighting geek

Look at the bottom of this page.

[www.electricstuff.co.uk image 56x78] 

They are sheets of edge-lit glass with dimples in them.


Cool. Thanks for the input. The first LED I saw was on a teacher's $400 calculator in 1972.
 
2012-10-09 05:44:57 PM

dabbletech: Watt's this all about?



Ohm, you know, not much at all.
 
2012-10-09 05:50:28 PM

Rapmaster2000: The libs want us to put all of these LED bulbs in our houses, but did you know that there's more Gallium Arsenide in a single LED than there was on the entire Hindenburg!?

It's true. Look it up.

[o.onionstatic.com image 630x441]


And they are HILARIOUS when installed in summer in a region that gets lots of snowy winters:

No worky cuz no heat
 
2012-10-09 05:52:37 PM

MrSteve007: I think I should start to favorite people who try to argue that heating a house by using incandescents makes sense. Maybe by labeling them as "retard" or "idiot" - somehow "dumbass" doesn't seem appropriate enough.


I can sort-of see the argument that energy is going to be used to heat the house no matter what, so who cares about the efficiency.

On the other hand, there was also something sketchy about draping heat sources onto a dying tree or plastic facsimile.

/remembers only being allowed to turn the lights on 1 hour per night, and always off if you left the room
 
2012-10-09 05:55:52 PM
If man were meant to have LEDs, there would be LED bushes.

crackpot.
 
2012-10-09 06:01:38 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: If man were meant to have LEDs, there would be LED bushes.

crackpot.


Oh they exist. Make up a technology, instantly will the Chinese market something to us all:

i00.i.aliimg.com
 
2012-10-09 06:02:23 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
/hot!
 
2012-10-09 06:07:47 PM
The desire to succeed against the larger labs paid off, with the group being on the forefront of LED and laser technology. Former student Dr. M. George Craford created the first yellow LED in 1972. He also increased the brightness of the red and yellow-red LED ten-fold. In 1977, Holonyak's team also demonstrated the first quantum well laser. You can find this low-power, concentrated laser in CD and DVD players.


BUT, but, but, look at how long that took!! My shareholders demand next quarter profits, not long term prosperity.
 
2012-10-09 06:16:35 PM

theMagni: EngineerAU: ProfessorOhki: So, break even in the cold months and reductions in power on both sides in the warm

How many people use Christmas lights indoors in July? For the average consumer in the US or Canada, they're used only during the cold months. If you live in a warm climate, yeah, I can see the point, but what percentage of LED Christmas lights are being sold in places where indoor heating is being used during the season in which they're used? My wild guess is at least 80%.

Why the fark would I warm up the outdoors? For big displays, you can save hundreds, if not thousands, on your lighting bill. There's a guy in town that upgraded to 400A service to power his Xmas display before everyone went all LED.

/he's obviously more Christian than YOU, heathen scum.


maybe if one is SUPER lazy they might want to melt the snow off their lights or something?
I'd prefer not to waste the energy, and I really like the look of lighting up the snow... as opposed to melting holes in it.
 
2012-10-09 06:16:49 PM
My pinball machine thanks you, LEDs.
 
2012-10-09 06:22:44 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: There are several successful solar companies right in my area. Are the panels cost effective? They have a ROI of something like 10 years right now, so it's debatable. Research is also constantly continuing.


It's getting to the point where the choice of racking system has a significant impact in the payback time - panels are down to $1.25/watt (retail). 8 year payback time for the 3KW system I just installed, based on the first couple months output and some basic math. If It was legal for DIY installations, the payback would be around 5 years.
 
2012-10-09 06:24:45 PM

Mister Peejay: At the end of "Goldfinger" the Ft. Knox nuclear bomb ticks down and is stopped by Bond at 007. Was that a simple LED display? Within a year of it's invention?

No, that wasn't LED. I forget exactly what they're called, but said friend with the 1 farad cap also had a frequency counter that used a similar display. It had all ten numbers in a stack and illuminated one at a time. For the life of me, I can't remember what it was called..


I think you're describing Nixie Tubes.
 
2012-10-09 06:25:12 PM
Man, I remember reading about them in Reader's Digest, one of the two magazines my parents subscribed to. You can probably guess the other one.
 
2012-10-09 06:41:33 PM
LEDs are old, Plasma Lighting is the future.
 
2012-10-09 06:58:41 PM

jfarkinB: olddeegee: At the end of "Goldfinger" the Ft. Knox nuclear bomb ticks down and is stopped by Bond at 007. Was that a simple LED display? Within a year of it's invention?

No, those looked like Nixie tubes -- basically a neon bulb with ten electrodes, one for each digit. But looking more closely now at a movie still, it almost looks like a fiber-optic arrangement with incandescent light:

[007.graphicallstars.com image 690x300]

I think the individual dots are too small to be individual "grain-of-wheat" incandescent bulbs. I'll have to look into this a little more.

/lighting geek


That's quite possible, Tektronix used displays like these on their curve tracers from that era.

They also used these:

www.barrytech.com

The orange rectangle displayed digits and units, it was basically just backlit stencils and numbers would appear all over the place.

TotallyHeadless: LEDs are old, Plasma Lighting is the future.


Yes, like EL lighting was the future in the 1950s...
 
2012-10-09 07:12:24 PM

natazha: Man, I remember reading about them in Reader's Digest, one of the two magazines my parents subscribed to. You can probably guess the other one.


Cracked?

Better Homes and Gardens?
 
2012-10-09 07:13:26 PM

Tax Boy: I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate bright blue LEDs that seem to be in everything.


I have a Toyota Corolla rental with an orange backlight.

I'll take the blue, please.
 
2012-10-09 07:15:02 PM

choo: Atomic Spunk: Why is it that LED flashlights and car headlights are very bright, but it's damn near impossible to find an LED lightbulb that is brighter than a 75 watt incandescent?

It's not impossible! They just cost around $30-$50 and use around 15W of electricity.

For home applications, get the ECS 8.6W series available at Home Depot for $10 a pop. It's the only LED A19 bulb that will work perfectly with X-10 automation and the socket rocket, unless they've changed the design already. For outdoor floodlights, check these out. Very tight and clean beam.


Can you put those in a standard ceiling pot light?
 
2012-10-09 07:22:06 PM
Little known electrical fact: any diode will emit light if biased properly.
 
2012-10-09 07:26:48 PM

EngineerAU: LED Christmas lights are interesting because for indoor use in a cold climate, I don't see the point. The energy "wasted" on the old lights helped heat the space they were in so are the LEDs really more efficient? It's nice in Georgia to not have a bunch of light bulbs around the house throwing out heat the eight or nine air conditioning months of the year but for lights used only in December, LEDs seem like the wrong tool.


1. A heat source next to a combustible, drying tree is not the best idea.

2. It's not just the amount of heat, it's the spatial distribution of the heat that matters.

3. Resistive electric heating is a very expensive way to heat the home. If I absolutely had to use an electric system for my home (e.g. if gas somehow became unavailable), I would use the electricity to run a geothermal heat pump, I wouldn't use resistive heating.
 
2012-10-09 07:48:50 PM

Wook: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Wook:
Funny, I was a semiconductor process engineer for 10 years. Our company folded about 2 years ago. I went into Defense. Approximately 7 of my research colleagues took jobs in Solar. Only one of them is currently working. All of the other Solar companies have folded. Solar is good assuming you have cheap labor. Manufacturing in the US is expensive. Excessive regulations and Unions don't help either.

Keep your Wharrgarbl to yourself Sonny, the world ain't unicorns and rainbows!



There are several successful solar companies right in my area. Are the panels cost effective? They have a ROI of something like 10 years right now, so it's debatable. Research is also constantly continuing.

your statement that solar is "total bullshiat" is still retarded no matter what your experiences are in the solar industry.

AKA WHARRGARBL.

LOL Applied Materials (Solar Division), Calisolar, Skyline Solar, Solyndra, Mia Sole......Gone

Research? SVTC gone!!!


You're cute.


Stutz Motor, Pierce-Arrow, Peerless Motor, Cunningham, Duesenberg, Auburn, Packard, Nash-Kelvinator, Studebaker, Crosley Motors, AMC... all gone. Automobile companies are in a completely failed industry.

ABS Computer, Aigo, Airis, AMAX, AVADirect, Belinea, Cerise Computers, Certified Data, Clevo, Commodore, TIME Computers, Dino PC, Falcon Northwest, Gigabyte, Tandem, Amdahl, SGI, Sun Microsystems, Olivetti, Wang, Wyse Technology, Zenith... all gone. Computer companies are in a completely failed industry.

The bitter fact about private industry is that 90% (or more) in a sector fail. That's the nature of private enterprise. They fail for a number of reasons, but that's about the standard rate, 90% I don't think it matters what industry sector. So to list a bunch of failed solar power companies is of little value to say that solar power is not a viable option.
 
2012-10-09 07:52:20 PM

Quantum Apostrophe:

TotallyHeadless: LEDs are old, Plasma Lighting is the future.

Yes, like EL lighting was the future in the 1950s...


They had ElectroLuminescent wire in the 50's? I love EL wire ... and LEDs, of course.
 
2012-10-09 07:57:09 PM
After years of working with stage lighting that uses expensive lamps that brown out, I just about teared up when I got to design a show with an entire rig (36) of these babies.

conceptcompletion.co.uk
 
2012-10-09 08:03:14 PM

SafetyThird: Quantum Apostrophe:

TotallyHeadless: LEDs are old, Plasma Lighting is the future.

Yes, like EL lighting was the future in the 1950s...

They had ElectroLuminescent wire in the 50's? I love EL wire ... and LEDs, of course.


Dunno about "wire" but they had EL dashboards in 1960.

lh3.googleusercontent.com

EL was also supposed to light up homes.
 
2012-10-09 08:11:38 PM

Sum Dum Gai: 3. Resistive electric heating is a very expensive way to heat the home. If I absolutely had to use an electric system for my home (e.g. if gas somehow became unavailable), I would use the electricity to run a geothermal heat pump, I wouldn't use resistive heating.


I used to think that electric resistance was the least efficient way to heat a home, since it has a COP of about 0.99

After years on Fark, I've learned that a fair number of misguided people think it's smart to use incandescents to heat a home. Their COP is about 10% less than the *least* cost effective form of traditional heating. You'll get 3070 BTU (~1/4 ton) for every 1,000 watts worth of bulbs, without proper distribution of the generated heat. In contrast, a heat-pump heats my house with electricity at nearly 4x's the efficiency @ 12,000 BTU (1 ton), using 1,000 watts. My lighting comes from LED.

Which is a large reason why my utility owes me $5 this month, and I haven't paid for electricity since June. Amazing what 21st technology can do.
 
2012-10-09 08:16:46 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: SafetyThird: Quantum Apostrophe:

TotallyHeadless: LEDs are old, Plasma Lighting is the future.

Yes, like EL lighting was the future in the 1950s...

They had ElectroLuminescent wire in the 50's? I love EL wire ... and LEDs, of course.

Dunno about "wire" but they had EL dashboards in 1960.

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x345]

EL was also supposed to light up homes.


Well, would ya look at that. I thought it was a much newer technology.

EL panels are lighting up homes. Sorta. I had a couple EL panel night lights. You could see them in the dark but their ability to, say, illuminate anything more than a few inches from it was poor.

Still great for costumes and decorations.
 
2012-10-09 08:27:12 PM

SafetyThird: Quantum Apostrophe: SafetyThird: Quantum Apostrophe:

TotallyHeadless: LEDs are old, Plasma Lighting is the future.

Yes, like EL lighting was the future in the 1950s...

They had ElectroLuminescent wire in the 50's? I love EL wire ... and LEDs, of course.

Dunno about "wire" but they had EL dashboards in 1960.

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x345]

EL was also supposed to light up homes.

Well, would ya look at that. I thought it was a much newer technology.

EL panels are lighting up homes. Sorta. I had a couple EL panel night lights. You could see them in the dark but their ability to, say, illuminate anything more than a few inches from it was poor.

Still great for costumes and decorations.


It's surprising how little has changed in the last few decades. We've gotten better at representing bits using less and less energy, and we've gotten better at making smaller and smaller containers for said bits. Everything else, we're just coasting along, improving a few % here, a few % there. That's not to say it's easy, squeezing a few % more efficiency out of a jet turbine is no small feat. 

Show a modern high bypass turbine to a person from the 1950s, they'll recognize it. A computer? No chance.
 
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