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(The Atlantic Cities)   American cities' equality ratings puts them on par with countries like Swaziland and El Salvador   (theatlanticcities.com) divider line 129
    More: Cool, Swaziland, El Salvador, Americans, american cities, United States, CIA World Factbook, American Community Survey, Joseph Stiglitz  
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7809 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Oct 2012 at 2:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-09 03:48:35 PM

SandMann: Inequality in America:

U.S. top earners pay larger share of taxes than any other industrialized nation 

"The United States is actually more dependent on rich people to pay taxes than even many of the more socialized economies of Europe. According to the Tax Foundation, the United States gets 45 percent of its total taxes from the top 10 percent of tax filers, whereas the international average in industrialized nations is 32 percent. America's rich carry a larger share of the tax burden than do the rich in Belgium (25 percent), Germany (31 percent), France (28 percent), and even Sweden (27 percent)."


But unlike those other countries, the top 10% do not control over 50% of all the money. They pay a large portion, but in comparison to the percentage of the wealth they control, they pay significantly less.
 
2012-10-09 03:49:57 PM

Gwyrddu: SandMann: "The United States is actually more dependent on rich people to pay taxes than even many of the more socialized economies of Europe. According to the Tax Foundation, the United States gets 45 percent of its total taxes from the top 10 percent of tax filers, whereas the international average in industrialized nations is 32 percent. America's rich carry a larger share of the tax burden than do the rich in Belgium (25 percent), Germany (31 percent), France (28 percent), and even Sweden (27 percent)."

Which means nothing without evaluating how much wealth the rich actually possess as a fraction of the total wealth of the various countries. If I pay 1% in taxes on $1,000,000 of income, I'm paying more in taxes than I am if I pay 50% of my $1,000 of income. The rich paying more in taxes despite having lower tax rates is probably actually a symptom of wealth inequality rather than evidence of anything to the contrary.


So you would rather have the "rich" knocked down a peg or two and everyone pay more taxes than the "rich" being rich and the poor paying less in taxes?
 
2012-10-09 03:50:00 PM

arentol: And look,they don't beat the US at human development either:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_I n dex


Do you even read your own links? Norway is listed as number one in the human development index.
 
2012-10-09 03:50:32 PM
Clearly, there's only one thing to do: Lower income taxes on high-earning job creators.
And eliminate capital gains taxes ... two. Two things to do: Lower income taxes on high-earning job creators and eliminate capital gains taxes and estate taxes. THREE! The three things we must do to raise the tide and make all the boats float, 1) Lower income taxes on high-earning job creators, 2) eliminate capital gains taxes, 3) eliminate estate taxes, and 4) drop the corporate tax rate. *sigh* There are precisely FOUR things we must do: lower the top marginal tax rate, eliminate capital gains taxes, eliminate estate taxes, drop the corporate tax rate, and deregulate everything Oh Damn!

Congressman Biggles, you'll have to say it!
 
2012-10-09 03:51:30 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Somebody should write a book about what happens when we strive for equality as a goal.

Somebody should write a song about it too.


How about just a graph?
gccds.org
 
2012-10-09 03:52:15 PM

Vectron: Nightsweat: Vectron: A country spends decades importing people from 3rd world countries and then it is surprised it looks like a 3rd world country. Damn out how does that work?

Yeah, letting those Irish in was a huge mistake. ANd don't get me started on the Italians.


Those aren't 3rd world countries. I'm talking about poor people from Central America. We're importing poverty.


I think you need to go back and look at Ireland and Italy when the immigrants came over.
 
2012-10-09 03:52:55 PM

Amos Quito: Vectron: Nightsweat: Vectron: A country spends decades importing people from 3rd world countries and then it is surprised it looks like a 3rd world country. Damn out how does that work?

Yeah, letting those Irish in was a huge mistake. ANd don't get me started on the Italians.


Those aren't 3rd world countries. I'm talking about poor people from Central America. We're importing poverty.


Yes, but we're also exporting wealth, so it all evens out.

Our next goal should be to make everyone the same color.


Interracial sex parties will take care of that.
 
2012-10-09 03:53:08 PM

serial_crusher: So, the solution is to shuffle rich people around to average out the local numbers? Or just have all the rich people take their money out of the country so everyone's poor?


No, it's the poor that should go. Push the bottom 99% out of the country, and everybody becomes rich. Inequity solved.
 
2012-10-09 03:56:37 PM

arentol: Scandanvia is three countries, and when it comes to quality of life none of them beat the US...


That's some fine propaganda you have there. Too bad it is patently false. All three Scandinavian countries have a higher quality of life than the U.S. We really aren't number one in much of anything except the size of our economy and the strength of our military.
 
2012-10-09 03:57:08 PM

arentol: CmndrFish: mysticcat: What a ridiculous statistic. The goal is not equality. If that were the case, a nation that was entirely dirt poor would be the winner.

What you're looking for is standard of living. For instance, in Swaziland, 70% of the population lives below the poverty line, in the Dominican Republic 34%, in El Salvador 37%, Madagascar 50%, Phillipines 27%, Nigeria 70%. Jamaica and Malaysia are actually pretty reasonable at 4%(!) and 17%. In the U.S. that number is 15%. (CIA World Factbook). The U.S. could do better, but comparing us to countries like Denmark and Sweden is unfair

Why should we not compare ourselves to other developed nations of the world? The Scandinavian model results in less poor people while still retaining high overall wealth. Why would we not want that?

Scandanvia is three countries, and when it comes to quality of life none of them beat the US...

http://internationalliving.com/2010/02/quality-of-life-2010/


Debatable. http://internationalliving.com/2010/02/quality-of-life-2010/

And look,they don't beat the US at human development either:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_I n dex


Unless you weight the numbers for inequality, in which case they crush us.


Economic Freedom? Nope, don't win there either...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom


I looked at the 10 factors, then looked who designed the index (the Heritage Foundation), and decided that one of its goal is to make more socialistic countries look bad, and to reward countries that let business run wild. So that's worthless, and doesn't really say much about inequality. Why don't we talk about something that matters like economic mobility, instead? Because they're winning there too.

http://www.frumforum.com/losing-the-fight-against-child-poverty/


And if you look closely you will realize a lot of the "advantage" that Scandanavia has over the US is due mostly to taxes and forced wealth redistribution. We could do the same thing, and probably should to a degree with some minor changes to our tax system, but basically there is no inherent superiority being displayed here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

So what is your point exactly?


My point is... Do you know what I'm talking about when I say the Scandinavian Model? Because you sort of laid it out in your last paragraph, but then go on to say the nations that use it don't have any inherent superiority. Here's a nice primer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_model

/bolds to make it easier to read
 
2012-10-09 03:57:25 PM

SandMann: So you would rather have the "rich" knocked down a peg or two and everyone pay more taxes than the "rich" being rich and the poor paying less in taxes?


If you're poor, why would you give a fig about taxes? The government can't take money you don't have. It's all about services. If someone could figure out how to provide all the services government supplies for free I'd be perfectly happy with such a system. However, things don't work that way and the most reasonable way to pay for government is everyone who can afford to chips in to pay for civilization. It's when the rich don't chip in is when government is bound to come up short and not everyone will even be given the basics they need to survive much less thrive and contribute.
 
2012-10-09 04:00:14 PM
frankandjan.com
 
2012-10-09 04:01:14 PM
FTA: Income inequality in America has reached levels not seen since the Gilded Age.

"Income inequality"?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

How farking idiotic is THAT?!?

"I PAINTED A PICTURE LIKE PICASSO BUT NOBODY WILL PAY ME MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR IT WWWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!"

"I WROTE A PLAY BUT NOBODY WILL PAY TO SEE IT WAAAAAAHHHHHHH!"

"I WORK AT A JOB THAT ANYBODY CAN DO WITH HALF A BRAIN BUT THEY WONT PAY ME ANY MORE MONEY WAAAAAAAHHHH!"

"IT'S NOT FAAAAAIIIIIIIRRRRR!"

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-09 04:05:29 PM

Gwyrddu: It's when the rich don't chip in is when government is bound to come up short and not everyone will even be given the basics they need to survive much less thrive and contribute.


That statement is incorrect. You could take every dime the "rich" make and it would still fall far short of paying for what the politicians have saddle on the backs of America's young.
 
2012-10-09 04:05:50 PM
Okay... soooooo... get the ones who aren't as high to find ways to make it higher.


This doesn't necessarily involve working them to death. Actually, it almost never does.
 
2012-10-09 04:08:39 PM
In other news: Areas of America where dad doesn't stick around and help raise junior (whatever his skin color may be) have similar rates of inequality to places in the rest of the world where dad doesn't stick around and help raise junior.
 
2012-10-09 04:15:38 PM

SandMann: Gwyrddu: It's when the rich don't chip in is when government is bound to come up short and not everyone will even be given the basics they need to survive much less thrive and contribute.

That statement is incorrect. You could take every dime the "rich" make and it would still fall far short of paying for what the politicians have saddle on the backs of America's young.


All such numbers I've seen assume that only some subset of the wealthy pay taxes and nobody else does. That's not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying if the wealthy stopped paying taxes, there would be no way to balance provide most of the services expected to maintain a first world country, regardless of what everyone else paid into the system. I'm saying that everyone who isn't poor needs to pay taxes, especially the wealthy (corporations as well, half of them don't pay taxes either). This is aside from issues of spending cuts. There are things that need to be cut, such as a bloated military budget, and on the state level we put too many people in prison. But spending cuts alone are not enough to get us to a balanced budget, which is why Republicans are always reticent on what they'll cut because they know they'll alienate they'll voting block if they did so.
 
2012-10-09 04:15:54 PM
I love how these numbers are always trotted out to make the wealthy in the U.S. feel bad. It's the most ridiculous statistic ever.

Compared to all those "enlightened" european nations that **might** be doing better on equality, the United States essentially LETS ANYONE THROUGH ITS BORDERS if they're looking for work. In those European nations, they will literally throw un-documented workers in jail. The US Makes it easy to come here with nothing and make a life, other developed nations make it hard. Because of this you will ALWAYS have a large underclass in the US, hence THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A LARGER INCOME DISPARITY here than elsewhere in the developed world. Now please stop pulling out the Bullshiat about how Americans are greedy bastages with huge wealth/income/opportunity disparities.

NEXT SUBJECT.
 
2012-10-09 04:17:32 PM

Gwyrddu: I'm saying if the wealthy stopped paying taxes, there would be no way to balance the budget and provide most of the services expected to maintain a first world country,


FTFM
 
2012-10-09 04:22:26 PM
"Detroit (.457) matches up with the Philippines (.458)."

I'm sure the Philippines are quite offended to be compared to or equated with Detroit in any way.
 
2012-10-09 04:22:42 PM
Headline demonstrates why "equality rating" is not a particularly meaningful metric for most analyses.
 
2012-10-09 04:23:09 PM

Big Man On Campus: Compared to all those "enlightened" european nations that **might** be doing better on equality, the United States essentially LETS ANYONE THROUGH ITS BORDERS if they're looking for work. In those European nations, they will literally throw un-documented workers in jail. The US Makes it easy to come here with nothing and make a life, other developed nations make it hard. Because of this you will ALWAYS have a large underclass in the US, hence THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A LARGER INCOME DISPARITY here than elsewhere in the developed world. Now please stop pulling out the Bullshiat about how Americans are greedy bastages with huge wealth/income/opportunity disparities.


Have you ever thought about why that is? Who benefits from high immigration, both legal and illegal? Maybe the same rich people who want to depress wages and the cost of labor and pull strings in government so nothing will ever seriously be done about immigration, regardless of who is in power. Just saying, the immigration problem seems to me to be just another symptom of wealth inequality where a few people hold all the power and use that power to make everyone else as powerless as possible (in other words, places with a high Gini index).
 
2012-10-09 04:23:11 PM

Big Man On Campus: I love how these numbers are always trotted out to make the wealthy in the U.S. feel bad. It's the most ridiculous statistic ever.

Compared to all those "enlightened" european nations that **might** be doing better on equality, the United States essentially LETS ANYONE THROUGH ITS BORDERS if they're looking for work. In those European nations, they will literally throw un-documented workers in jail. The US Makes it easy to come here with nothing and make a life, other developed nations make it hard. Because of this you will ALWAYS have a large underclass in the US, hence THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A LARGER INCOME DISPARITY here than elsewhere in the developed world. Now please stop pulling out the Bullshiat about how Americans are greedy bastards with huge wealth/income/opportunity disparities.

NEXT SUBJECT.


It's almost like we're different countries with insanely different variables in this particular experiment.
 
2012-10-09 04:23:22 PM
I get the problem of income inequality, and it's a significant factor in how I vote. But, the numbers in the article don't seem to correspond to what I see on the ground. The article lists Seattle as being comparable to Nigeria, for example. Problems here: (1) comparing a U.S. metro area to an entire country; and (2) "blighted" neighborhoods in Seattle actually look like slightly run-down middle class--it isn't Lagos. No open sewers, water-sellers, or people puncturing gasoline pipelines to get a little black-market fuel. So yeah, I am concerned about the U.S. becoming more like a third world country in terms of income inequality, but comparing Seattle to Lagos comes across as stupid, and sounding stupid does not help the cause.
 
2012-10-09 04:23:24 PM
Driving in stamford is like driving through an Audi dealership parking lot everyday.
 
2012-10-09 04:25:06 PM

Raoul Eaton: I get the problem of income inequality, and it's a significant factor in how I vote. But, the numbers in the article don't seem to correspond to what I see on the ground. The article lists Seattle as being comparable to Nigeria, for example. Problems here: (1) comparing a U.S. metro area to an entire country; and (2) "blighted" neighborhoods in Seattle actually look like slightly run-down middle class--it isn't Lagos. No open sewers, water-sellers, or people puncturing gasoline pipelines to get a little black-market fuel. So yeah, I am concerned about the U.S. becoming more like a third world country in terms of income inequality, but comparing Seattle to Lagos comes across as stupid, and sounding stupid does not help the cause.


Income inequality matters to a point. The US isn't at that point.
 
2012-10-09 04:26:16 PM

SandMann: So you would rather have the "rich" knocked down a peg or two and everyone pay more taxes than the "rich" being rich and the poor paying less in taxes?


Are those our only two choices...?
 
2012-10-09 04:29:23 PM

poot_rootbeer: SandMann: So you would rather have the "rich" knocked down a peg or two and everyone pay more taxes than the "rich" being rich and the poor paying less in taxes?

Are those our only two choices...?


With the two-party system?

Yeah.
 
2012-10-09 04:29:45 PM
When the economy is bad, we freak out about income inequality in America.
When the economy is Ok, we freak out about income inequality in the world.
When the economy is great, we freak out about using up all the world's resources at an unsustainable rate.

No matter what happens, there is always a looming crisis threatening to kill us all.
 
2012-10-09 04:30:21 PM

Magnanimous_J: When the economy is bad, we freak out about income inequality in America.
When the economy is Ok, we freak out about income inequality in the world.
When the economy is great, we freak out about using up all the world's resources at an unsustainable rate.

No matter what happens, there is always a looming crisis threatening to kill us all.


You sound like you don't have enough guilt to be American.
 
2012-10-09 04:30:30 PM

Gwyrddu: It's when the rich don't chip in is when government is bound to come up short and not everyone will even be given the basics they need to survive


www.funnyqanda.com
 
2012-10-09 04:33:42 PM
As the liberal communist lying spin machine goes into high gear again. Show me the fences, the laws, the guns and clubs that stop people from being rich and successful. Yes, thought so, the only thing stopping them from being rich is THEMSELVES. Stop blaming the US, there are easily as many white failures as there are any other color or culture. Lets put the blame where it belongs, on those too lazy and useless to try hard work as a road to riches.
 
2012-10-09 04:35:30 PM
Further proof the Government Dependence will Fark up your life. Congratulations to all that have allowed themselves to become slaves of the state.
 
2012-10-09 04:37:30 PM

chiefsfaninkc: Further proof the Government Dependence will Fark up your life. Congratulations to all that have allowed themselves to become slaves of the state.


Not all of them are like that, but that group does exist.
 
2012-10-09 04:38:44 PM

vpb: So wealthy people live in cities? What point is he trying to make?


If only the wandering homeless people of the Great Plains were recognized more. For shame.
 
2012-10-09 04:42:59 PM

Marine1: chiefsfaninkc: Further proof the Government Dependence will Fark up your life. Congratulations to all that have allowed themselves to become slaves of the state.

Not all of them are like that, but that group does exist.


And a large portion of that group tend to congregate in the Cities. Makes it easier to get you government (tax payer funded) handouts.
 
2012-10-09 04:43:31 PM

imashark: SandMann: Inequality in America:

U.S. top earners pay larger share of taxes than any other industrialized nation 

"The United States is actually more dependent on rich people to pay taxes than even many of the more socialized economies of Europe. According to the Tax Foundation, the United States gets 45 percent of its total taxes from the top 10 percent of tax filers, whereas the international average in industrialized nations is 32 percent. America's rich carry a larger share of the tax burden than do the rich in Belgium (25 percent), Germany (31 percent), France (28 percent), and even Sweden (27 percent)."

Wow, what an amazing set of facts.

The article you wrote implies that this says that the rich pay far too much in income as taxes.

Yet, these facts are actually another indicator of systemic inequality, where the top 10% of tax filers make so much far and above than the average American, that countries with higher tax rates than us have their wealthy paying a lower share of the tax burden.

Its funny that the article you link defeats itself with its own statistics.


===========

In absolute numbers, America's wealthy pay more in taxes, it's true. In terms of percentages the working class and poor pay much more. The percentage of US federal tax revenues that come from payroll taxes is higher now than at any time in US history. Since the wealthy structure most of their income as capital gains, they pay a lower rate of income tax and a very tiny percentage in payroll taxes, i.e. FICA, medicare, workers comp etc. Factor in such things as sales taxes and property taxes and the working poor are hammered with taxes as a percentage of their total income.

/There is a reason Romney refuses to release his tax returns
 
2012-10-09 04:44:40 PM

jwilson07: As the liberal communist lying spin machine goes into high gear again. Show me the fences, the laws, the guns and clubs that stop people from being rich and successful. Yes, thought so, the only thing stopping them from being rich is THEMSELVES. Stop blaming the US, there are easily as many white failures as there are any other color or culture. Lets put the blame where it belongs, on those too lazy and useless to try hard work as a road to riches.


Since you honestly believe that hard work is the only difference between the rich and the poor, I'm gonna mark you down as "supports 100% estate tax upon all US citizens."

Cuz, you know, if hard work is the only thing that separates the rich from the poor, I think we can agree that it is fair that everyone starts at the same starting line with no artificial advantages passed down fem your parents. Second, inherited wealth doesn't matter anyway, according to you, only hard work does, so the government taking every individual's accumulated wealth upon his or her death will have no impact on the process of economic mobility in the United States.

Wouldn't you agree?
 
2012-10-09 04:45:56 PM
i14.photobucket.com

It stinks like freepers in here.
 
2012-10-09 04:46:30 PM
I expected Detroit to be a null-factor or no-man's land, kinda like the Australian Outback.
 
2012-10-09 05:01:23 PM

Gwyrddu: Father_Jack: Scandanvia is three countries, and when it comes to quality of life none of them beat the US...

Then why is Denmark considered the happiest country on Earth?


One word: marijuana
 
2012-10-09 05:13:07 PM

Grapple: Come to the islands, mon. Denver = Jamaica... close.. but not really.


Yeah, there's more ganj here in Denver, and the dreadlocks are blond.
 
2012-10-09 05:13:08 PM
who want's to live in a society where everyone suffers the equality of poverty?
 
2012-10-09 05:14:12 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if your country had two people, one who had $1 and one who had $3, this metric would indicate a pretty big disparity on account of them being 25% and 75% of the total respectively. Doesn't that imply that the higher the average worth of the area, the more significant the statistic, making the metro areas worse and absolute difference?

As in, in Swaziland, you have the guy with $1 and the guy with $5, but to get the same number in the US, you'd have a guy with $200k and a guy with $1m to get the same ratio? On a completely global scale, the same ratio is worse for a richer nation?

Amos Quito: Our next goal should be to make everyone the same color.


We are - orange.
 
2012-10-09 05:22:01 PM
Something a lot of people rural area's don't really get is phat cats in the cities own most everything out there too.
 
2012-10-09 05:28:26 PM
The tards cheering for this level of income inequality don't understand that the consumer is what drives the economy. Specifically the middle class and poor consumer. These tards think magic jerb creator dust gives them a job and not the consumers that buy whatever product the company stupid enough to hire the aforementioned tards is selling.
 
2012-10-09 05:39:55 PM

CmndrFish: mysticcat: What a ridiculous statistic. The goal is not equality. If that were the case, a nation that was entirely dirt poor would be the winner.

What you're looking for is standard of living. For instance, in Swaziland, 70% of the population lives below the poverty line, in the Dominican Republic 34%, in El Salvador 37%, Madagascar 50%, Phillipines 27%, Nigeria 70%. Jamaica and Malaysia are actually pretty reasonable at 4%(!) and 17%. In the U.S. that number is 15%. (CIA World Factbook). The U.S. could do better, but comparing us to countries like Denmark and Sweden is unfair

Why should we not compare ourselves to other developed nations of the world? The Scandinavian model results in less poor people while still retaining high overall wealth. Why would we not want that?


Because socialism. Duh.
 
2012-10-09 05:51:41 PM

Gwyrddu: Have you ever thought about why that is? Who benefits from high immigration, both legal and illegal? Maybe the same rich people who want to depress wages and the cost of labor and pull strings in government so nothing will ever seriously be done about immigration, regardless of who is in power. Just saying, the immigration problem seems to me to be just another symptom of wealth inequality where a few people hold all the power and use that power to make everyone else as powerless as possible (in other words, places with a high Gini index).


Did you consider your logic before hitting submit? Everyone benefits from high immigration, everyone. Population increase directly translates into an expanding market, and an expanding market creates jobs (more people = more needs = more work available). Immigration is not a symptom of wealth-inequality within a given population, it is a source of wealth-inequality. A low-barrier-to-entry labor market is the very definition of opportunity to anyone seeking it. You might call them exploited by super-wealthy, I say that many of them risked their lives to be here so those wealthy people employing them can't be all that bad, can they?
 
2012-10-09 05:52:36 PM

Headso: The tards cheering for this level of income inequality don't understand that the consumer is what drives the economy. Specifically the middle class and poor consumer. These tards think magic jerb creator dust gives them a job and not the consumers that buy whatever product the company stupid enough to hire the aforementioned tards is selling.


I don't see anybody "cheering" for it. It's just that we don't care. Big difference.

Also curious... the company you own... what do you sell?
 
2012-10-09 06:12:25 PM
This is "Cool" why?


Deep Contact: Gwyrddu: Father_Jack: Scandanvia is three countries, and when it comes to quality of life none of them beat the US...

Then why is Denmark considered the happiest country on Earth?

Happy pills.


It also helps that most of the Scandinavian countries are pretty much culturally homogeneous.
 
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