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(The New York Times)   Doctor in Georgia prescribes Adderall to kids suffering from: A) Attention Deficit Disorder B) Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder C) Being Poor   (nytimes.com) divider line 125
    More: Sick, Adderall, Cherokee County, prescription costs, psychotropic medication  
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7615 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Oct 2012 at 10:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-09 09:31:48 AM
I was expecting worse from poor+drugs. Up here we had a couple who saw children as a way to get disability benefits and free drugs. One of their children was too normal, but they eventually managed to find a doctor to diagnose her and put her on medication. They drugged her to death, apparently for acting like a normal child and distracting them from non-parenting activities. Judging by contemporary media reports the family was an extreme case of a common problem.
 
2012-10-09 10:23:37 AM
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-10-09 10:23:50 AM
While I can appreciate the doctor's attempt to help the children as best he can, raising an entire generation on psychotropic drugs is not the way to do it.
 
2012-10-09 10:24:44 AM
"We've decided as a society that it's too expensive to modify the kid's environment. So we have to modify the kid."

We have?
 
2012-10-09 10:25:12 AM
Getting a B instead of a C in elementary school is certainly worth drugging your children.
 
2012-10-09 10:25:17 AM
Dr. Anderson is one of the more outspoken proponents of an idea that is gaining interest among some physicians. They are prescribing stimulants to struggling students in schools starved of extra money - not to treat A.D.H.D., necessarily, but to boost their academic performance.

Wow, that idea is gaining interest...
 
2012-10-09 10:25:28 AM
I really wished that amphetamine was OTC
 
2012-10-09 10:25:52 AM

CapeFearCadaver: "We've decided as a society that it's too expensive to modify the kid's environment. So we have to modify the kid."

We have?


well, he is from a red state
 
2012-10-09 10:25:58 AM
This might work, what's the street value of Adderol?
 
2012-10-09 10:26:04 AM
Congratulations, you farking moron.

You've now been outed as abusing a Schedule II narcotic that is already hard as hell to get for legitimate adult ADHD patients, and will now be more so because you decided every little poor snowflake needed it to concentrate.

You should go to jail the same as the hydro script factory docs out there who defraud medicaid to support their patient's drug habits.
 
2012-10-09 10:26:36 AM
This country gets more f*cked up by the day.
 
2012-10-09 10:26:52 AM
Well, they will probably end up on meth anyway... might as well start them out on the good shiat.
 
2012-10-09 10:26:59 AM
This asshole's license should be yanked and fast. He has just given the state board of medical examiners sufficient cause to do so. This is just unbelievable.
 
2012-10-09 10:28:39 AM

cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC


I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.
 
2012-10-09 10:28:48 AM

CapeFearCadaver: "We've decided as a society that it's too expensive to modify the kid's environment. So we have to modify the kid."

We have?


Yes, we have.

Poor state or not, red state or not, education is horribly underfunded. Teachers cannot possibly do the 3000 jobs we ask of them with the necessary focus on individual needs that we've also assigned.
 
2012-10-09 10:29:01 AM
Throughout all of human history, the amount of people who were "smart" has been pretty small with the rest of us performing menial labor. For the last 100 years we've gotten to the point where we are actually capable of attempting to school entire populations. And I think we're seeing that it's not working. Just like not everyone actually belongs in college, not everyone has what it takes to really learn. For whatever reason, there's just a lot of people out there who are almost meant to be idiots, and the more we see this in practice, the more hoops we jump through to try to make all of the idiot square pegs to fit into the smart round holes. Not everyone is capable of being a doctor or lawyer. In the past, everyone else would just be a farmer or some other simple job. But now that we've automated most everything, we're discovering we have a lot more imbeciles than we know what to do with.
 
2012-10-09 10:29:29 AM
The problem is lack of parenting. And it's getting worse, not better.
 
2012-10-09 10:30:53 AM

cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC


Go down to the local playground and buy it over-the-fence instead. Apparently there are a lot of kids who need money instead of the amphetamines that are in their pocket. Glad there was a shortage recently that sent my prices through the roof, all for no reason. Silver lining: with the quality of today's educational system, I won't really have to worry about competition for my job from American workers for my entire working life.
 
2012-10-09 10:31:14 AM
A gram is better than a damn.
 
2012-10-09 10:32:21 AM
And he calls the disorder "made up" which I find interesting having been diagnosed 4 years ago at age 38. So I guess this means I am lazy/stupid/crazy/just an asshole. Thanks doc.
 
2012-10-09 10:32:31 AM
I like that these kids will have to sit through DARE classes learning about how drugs are terrible and will ruin their lives.
 
2012-10-09 10:34:16 AM

BronyMedic: Congratulations, you farking moron.

You've now been outed as abusing a Schedule II narcotic that is already hard as hell to get for legitimate adult ADHD patients, and will now be more so because you decided every little poor snowflake needed it to concentrate.

You should go to jail the same as the hydro script factory docs out there who defraud medicaid to support their patient's drug habits.


This. Seems like malpractice to me...
 
2012-10-09 10:34:21 AM
Kid in the pic FTA looks like he hasn't slept in weeks.

/Good thing pot's still illegal
 
2012-10-09 10:34:41 AM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: This might work, what's the street value of Adderol?


$10 per 30mg pill, but those are "friend prices" (or so I'm told).
 
2012-10-09 10:35:10 AM

Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.


THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).
 
2012-10-09 10:35:45 AM
If only these drugs had been around when Mozart was a kid, eh?
 
2012-10-09 10:36:26 AM

Ohlookabutterfly: And he calls the disorder "made up" which I find interesting having been diagnosed 4 years ago at age 38. So I guess this means I am lazy/stupid/crazy/just an asshole. Thanks doc.


I was talking to the wife of my co-worker, who takes Strattera. She's also an RN (or something of that ilk, but her specialty is nutters). She said ADD/ADHD management is 10% drugs, 30% exercise, 30% diet, and 30% routine. I've been mulling over that statement ever since. What it taught me is that ADD/ADHD is basically like Type 1 diabetes and is successfully managed the same way.

I'm not saying you don't have it. You just reminded me of that discussion.
 
2012-10-09 10:37:19 AM
Personally, I'd love to be back on ADD meds like when I was in high school. I got so much done, it was fantastic. Too bad it basically shut down my personality, though killing my sex drive wasn't a problem in high school.

//Didn't get laid till I was 23.
 
2012-10-09 10:38:04 AM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.

THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).


At $4, I should consider taking Ritalin again.
 
2012-10-09 10:38:46 AM
Win-Win-Win and Win

Government pays Doc - Pharmacy sells drug- Kid sells drug - Stoner gets high

Everybody wins!

Well, almost everyone.
 
2012-10-09 10:43:18 AM
That kid in the picture is on Risperdal? That is an anti-psychotic, why does a boy his age need something like that?

Unless he is really suffering from something that the article isn't saying or I missed it but I used to take that for a short while and it was awful. Made me twitchy. Poor kid.
 
2012-10-09 10:43:43 AM
Although A.D.H.D is the diagnosis Dr. Anderson makes, he calls the disorder "made up" and "an excuse" to prescribe the pills to treat what he considers the children's true ill - poor academic performance in inadequate schools.

I wonder where this guy got his license.
 
2012-10-09 10:44:10 AM

2KanZam: Kid in the pic FTA looks like he hasn't slept in weeks.

/Good thing pot's still illegal


He's probably exhausted from explaining that his name is NOT misspelled.
 
2012-10-09 10:46:17 AM

taurusowner: Throughout all of human history, the amount of people who were "smart" has been pretty small with the rest of us performing menial labor. For the last 100 years we've gotten to the point where we are actually capable of attempting to school entire populations. And I think we're seeing that it's not working. Just like not everyone actually belongs in college, not everyone has what it takes to really learn. For whatever reason, there's just a lot of people out there who are almost meant to be idiots, and the more we see this in practice, the more hoops we jump through to try to make all of the idiot square pegs to fit into the smart round holes. Not everyone is capable of being a doctor or lawyer. In the past, everyone else would just be a farmer or some other simple job. But now that we've automated most everything, we're discovering we have a lot more imbeciles than we know what to do with.


THIS
 
2012-10-09 10:46:33 AM

ArkAngel: While I can appreciate the doctor's attempt to help the children as best he can, raising an entire generation on psychotropic drugs is not the way to do it.


It's a long-term investment gamble.

Once Obamacare starts up next year, all the doctors who started prescribing meds this year will be able to set back and reap the BigPharm benefits for pushing their junk.
 
2012-10-09 10:46:46 AM
That family is crazy. Farking Stepford kids is what they want. This is scary. Why fix the broken system when we can just medicate the victims of it instead.
 
2012-10-09 10:48:39 AM

taurusowner: For the last 100 years we've gotten to the point where we are actually capable of attempting to school entire populations. And I think we're seeing that it's not working. Just like not everyone actually belongs in college, not everyone has what it takes to really learn.


Ironically I was just looking at gifted funding by state about an hour ago.

I think people are less idiots than you think. At least they can make it up through... Say 9th grade equivalent without problems. I also think the education system needs a complete overhaul (and who doesn't?) so that those 9 years are far more useful, even to those you'd condemn as idiots.
 
2012-10-09 10:49:48 AM
I'd question these kids' diets as well. Bet you most of his patients are living on high sodium/sugar diets and a lack of fruits and veggies which affect mood and energy levels as well as concentration in children. Wonder how many of these parents he told to go to the produce department at Kroger before jumping to meds. I'm thinking... oh... none?
 
2012-10-09 10:50:31 AM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).


wat?

Christ.... I am paying $200-$250 a month for my dexedrine... generic.
 
2012-10-09 10:50:38 AM

BronyMedic: Congratulations, you farking moron.

You've now been outed as abusing a Schedule II narcotic that is already hard as hell to get for legitimate adult ADHD patients, and will now be more so because you decided every little poor snowflake needed it to concentrate.

You should go to jail the same as the hydro script factory docs out there who defraud medicaid to support their patient's drug habits.


He outed himself and should lose his license to 'practice medicine'.Medicare should get up his ass for fraud as well.
I wonder if he gets kickbacks from the drug company?
 
2012-10-09 10:53:27 AM
I should say I *would* be paying that much for it, but I can't afford to get it filled at all right now.
 
2012-10-09 10:53:31 AM

taurusowner: ...we're discovering we have a lot more imbeciles than we know what to do with.


War with Iran will take care of the excess. Still too many? War with China. Still too many? Uh, Mars Colony volunteers.
 
2012-10-09 10:55:16 AM
That article was a lot more depressing than I figured it would be, and a pediatrician saying "We've decided as a society....we have to modify the kid" might be the most "holy sh*t, there's a lot to unpack there" statement I'll see all month anywhere.
 
2012-10-09 10:55:43 AM

tricycleracer: Zarquon's Flat Tire: This might work, what's the street value of Adderol?

$10 per 30mg pill, but those are "friend prices" (or so I'm told).


So let's assume $15 per to customers, and a daily dose being two pills. For a 30 day supply that's $1800 a month. Do that for a few years, use the money to pay for trade school *BAM* the doctored cured his poorness.
 
2012-10-09 10:55:44 AM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.

THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).


I take Vyvanse daily (or I would....) and I pay 50 bucks for a month's worth. I just love paying out the ass for something I need only to have the doctor and pharmacist treat me like a drug seeker. Of course, people getting Anti-Depressants and Anti-Anxiety drugs don't get this kind of treatment because those are accepted by society. Can't function or stay on task? You must be lazy/stupid/poorly raised. Or out to get drugs.
 
2012-10-09 10:56:24 AM
Cool, one step closer to Huxley's Soma (not Carisoprodol). The masses should be quite under control in a few years. Not sure why who'd want to control over millions of slobbering drones, but the option is there I guess.
 
2012-10-09 10:57:00 AM

PallMall: ArkAngel: While I can appreciate the doctor's attempt to help the children as best he can, raising an entire generation on psychotropic drugs is not the way to do it.

It's a long-term investment gamble.

Once Obamacare starts up next year, all the doctors who started prescribing meds this year will be able to set back and reap the BigPharm benefits for pushing their junk.


wat
 
2012-10-09 10:59:30 AM

taurusowner: Throughout all of human history, the amount of people who were "smart" has been pretty small with the rest of us performing menial labor. For the last 100 years we've gotten to the point where we are actually capable of attempting to school entire populations. And I think we're seeing that it's not working. Just like not everyone actually belongs in college, not everyone has what it takes to really learn. For whatever reason, there's just a lot of people out there who are almost meant to be idiots, and the more we see this in practice, the more hoops we jump through to try to make all of the idiot square pegs to fit into the smart round holes. Not everyone is capable of being a doctor or lawyer. In the past, everyone else would just be a farmer or some other simple job. But now that we've automated most everything, we're discovering we have a lot more imbeciles than we know what to do with.


And this is the issue of our age. Do we help those who don't have valuable skills and possibly find something for them to do of value, or do we ignore them and hope they go away.

//BTW are we the Morlocks or Eloi, I haven't figured that one out yet.
 
2012-10-09 11:00:17 AM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: tricycleracer: Zarquon's Flat Tire: This might work, what's the street value of Adderol?

$10 per 30mg pill, but those are "friend prices" (or so I'm told).

So let's assume $15 per to customers, and a daily dose being two pills. For a 30 day supply that's $1800 a month. Do that for a few years, use the money to pay for trade school *BAM* the doctored cured his poorness.


Btw, there's an extended release version, which is only 1 a day. Don't know how new it is, but my kid has it (insert defensive look here).
 
2012-10-09 11:03:08 AM

CapeFearCadaver: "We've decided as a society that it's too expensive to modify the kid's environment. So we have to modify the kid."

We have?


Yes.
 
2012-10-09 11:03:38 AM

Shadow Blasko: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).

wat?

Christ.... I am paying $200-$250 a month for my dexedrine... generic.


Check your local Costco pharmacy if you have one. No membership required. If you do have a membership, they have a discount program for people without insurance.
 
2012-10-09 11:06:13 AM

Dimensio: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.

THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).

At $4, I should consider taking Ritalin again.


I should mention that I am in Colorado, so the $4 Ritalin (King Soopers/Walmart) and $35 generic Adderall (30 mg/day) might be unique to my state and other states are YMMV.
 
2012-10-09 11:07:37 AM

CapeFearCadaver: "We've decided as a society that it's too expensive to modify the kid's environment. So we have to modify the kid."

We have?


They have.
 
2012-10-09 11:12:22 AM

The Southern Logic Company: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.

THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).

I take Vyvanse daily (or I would....) and I pay 50 bucks for a month's worth. I just love paying out the ass for something I need only to have the doctor and pharmacist treat me like a drug seeker. Of course, people getting Anti-Depressants and Anti-Anxiety drugs don't get this kind of treatment because those are accepted by society. Can't function or stay on task? You must be lazy/stupid/poorly raised. Or out to get drugs.


Isn't that awesome when your doctor takes another gig and moves out of state, and then you have to spend almost a year convincing some new schlub that you aren't a junkie, going to their office for a $100 visit every month to get a refill? Land of the free.
 
2012-10-09 11:15:58 AM

Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.


The real issue is the DEA quota system
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/01/03/adderall-drug-shortage- w ill-continue-in-2012-government-officials-say/

Basically, the branded company gobbles up quota for not only the branded product but their own generic. Then, they make as much branded as possible, so there is very little quota left for generics. Then you end up paying high prices for the brand because the generic firms don't have enough quota to buy/use the API.
 
2012-10-09 11:17:17 AM
gvshp.org
Remember kids: Just Say No!
 
2012-10-09 11:18:35 AM

ArkAngel: While I can appreciate the doctor's attempt to help the children as best he can, raising an entire generation on psychotropic drugs is not the way to do it.


All perscription drugs have side effects, using pyschotropics on adolescents is an almost gauranteed way to fark up thier brain chemistry during puberty and set them up for serious long-term chemical imbalances and brain disorders. This doctor is playing god and needs to have his license yanked, yesterday.

I say this as someone who has been informally diagnosed as ADHD all his life (and has two nephews with formal diagnoses) I had bad grades in elementary and HS, and would have ended up in special ed but for the fact that they always give an IQ test to justify that, and mine, in all modesty, usually tested off the scale (I have always had a knack for standardized tests, my PSATs SATs and LSATs were all 99th percentile).

If you have a brain like mine you need to learn how to make it work for you even if the academic world is basically set up in a way deliberately antagonistic to how you learn. Training yourself in coping mechanisms beats the fark out of becoming dependent on drugs. Especially because, while no one talks about ti, having an ADHD brain gives you huge congnitive ADVANTAGES when you learn to use it properly. Your pattern recognition skills, your ability to synthethize information from disparate sources quickly and your ability to "Think on your feet", to say nothing of your creativity, are all much higher than in "normal" kids.
 
2012-10-09 11:19:00 AM
Wow. I cannot use cannabis to control my arthritis, bad knees, bad ankles, very bad back, manic depression, AAD (adjustment anxiety disorder, and it is bad... very bad), and general disgust with life. It is illegal. The reason it is illegal is listed above, since cannabis does a decent job of helping me control ALL of the above problems. ONE substance. (A substance that pretty much anyone can cultivate and grow for themselves without the middle man, ie: BigPharma). We cannot have that! I am supposed to make several CEOs of drug companies richer while barely being able to survive just so I can go out and be a 'productive member of society'. Which translates into 'go out and make some money so you can give it to us'. Yet, these kids get drugs just for not doing well in class???????

And some wonder why America is seen as completely nuts by the rest of the civilized world
 
2012-10-09 11:21:21 AM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: The Southern Logic Company: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.

THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).

I take Vyvanse daily (or I would....) and I pay 50 bucks for a month's worth. I just love paying out the ass for something I need only to have the doctor and pharmacist treat me like a drug seeker. Of course, people getting Anti-Depressants and Anti-Anxiety drugs don't get this kind of treatment because those are accepted by society. Can't function or stay on task? You must be lazy/stupid/poorly raised. Or out to get drugs.

Isn't that awesome when your doctor takes another gig and moves out of state, and then you have to spend almost a year convincing some new schlub that you aren't a junkie, going to their office for a $100 visit every month to get a refill? Land of the free.


Even better was, after I returned from China, my doctor was in another state and I could only bring 2 months worth of Vyvanse with me to China. Chinese doctors do not believe in nor do they prescribe anything for ADHD so I had to do without. Whatever, cost of living overseas.

I had a doctor here in Georgia flat out refuse to give me the medication because "You seem to have functioned fine without it for the past 8 months." Uh, no farkstick. I got everything done at the last freaking minute, my girlfriend had to literally FORCE me to go to teach some days and my apartment was an absolute dump of papers and beer bottles. I was still very much suffering from it even after exercising and meditating everyday. Its a miracle I didn't fark up enough to get fired. I have never had this much scrutiny over medication. Apparently I am "suspicious" because I was diagnosed at 22 and go stretches without my medication. It is as you mentioned though, 50 bucks for the pills and 20-40 for the doctors visit (because the doctor HAS to see you every month to make sure you're not a tweaked out addict amirite?).

Don't even get me started on asking for an increase of dosage.
 
2012-10-09 11:21:28 AM
"People who are getting A's and B's, I won't give it to them," he said.

How long until he starts prescribing them barbiturates so they can't unfairly use their advantage over his favored patients?
 
2012-10-09 11:23:40 AM
Does Adderall cure poor?
 
2012-10-09 11:28:10 AM

Chucklz: The real issue is the DEA quota system
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/01/03/adderall-drug-shortage- w ill-continue-in-2012-government-officials-say/


Yes... I am aware.. I have posted about it many times.
 
2012-10-09 11:30:51 AM

Sin_City_Superhero: Does Adderall cure poor?


Sell your prescription to pay for trade school and yes.
 
2012-10-09 11:40:38 AM
The school would be more than adequate if many weren't populated mostly by kids with dysfunctional families with formed out parenting skills. Blaming a lack of funding, the teachers, and crumbling infrastructure is just an efficient way to pretend like you actually give a shiat while ignoring the real problem.
 
2012-10-09 11:41:43 AM

MindStalker: taurusowner: Throughout all of human history, the amount of people who were "smart" has been pretty small with the rest of us performing menial labor. For the last 100 years we've gotten to the point where we are actually capable of attempting to school entire populations. And I think we're seeing that it's not working. Just like not everyone actually belongs in college, not everyone has what it takes to really learn. For whatever reason, there's just a lot of people out there who are almost meant to be idiots, and the more we see this in practice, the more hoops we jump through to try to make all of the idiot square pegs to fit into the smart round holes. Not everyone is capable of being a doctor or lawyer. In the past, everyone else would just be a farmer or some other simple job. But now that we've automated most everything, we're discovering we have a lot more imbeciles than we know what to do with.

And this is the issue of our age. Do we help those who don't have valuable skills and possibly find something for them to do of value, or do we ignore them and hope they go away.

//BTW are we the Morlocks or Eloi, I haven't figured that one out yet.


Don't know about you but I am firmly in the morlock camp.


/tis better to eat than be eaten
 
2012-10-09 11:43:09 AM

taurusowner: Throughout all of human history, the amount of people who were "smart" has been pretty small with the rest of us performing menial labor. For the last 100 years we've gotten to the point where we are actually capable of attempting to school entire populations. And I think we're seeing that it's not working. Just like not everyone actually belongs in college, not everyone has what it takes to really learn. For whatever reason, there's just a lot of people out there who are almost meant to be idiots, and the more we see this in practice, the more hoops we jump through to try to make all of the idiot square pegs to fit into the smart round holes. Not everyone is capable of being a doctor or lawyer. In the past, everyone else would just be a farmer or some other simple job. But now that we've automated most everything, we're discovering we have a lot more imbeciles than we know what to do with.


This is why I'm building a gigantic imbecile trebuchet to launch them into orbit.
 
2012-10-09 11:45:19 AM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: tricycleracer: Zarquon's Flat Tire: This might work, what's the street value of Adderol?

$10 per 30mg pill, but those are "friend prices" (or so I'm told).

So let's assume $15 per to customers, and a daily dose being two pills. For a 30 day supply that's $1800 a month. Do that for a few years, use the money to pay for trade school *BAM* the doctored cured his poorness.


STREET PRICES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

A street price is what you'd pay without a prescription, which drives up the cost in a big way. The pharm I go to does 30 day supplies of Adderall for $62. Not $1800.
 
2012-10-09 11:53:49 AM
Quentn? Earring? Mall food court?

This kid has every problem BUT ADHD.
 
2012-10-09 11:56:38 AM

MemeSlave: This kid has every problem BUT ADHD.


What you listed aren't problems.
 
2012-10-09 12:00:00 PM

grinding_journalist: Zarquon's Flat Tire: tricycleracer: Zarquon's Flat Tire: This might work, what's the street value of Adderol?

$10 per 30mg pill, but those are "friend prices" (or so I'm told).

So let's assume $15 per to customers, and a daily dose being two pills. For a 30 day supply that's $1800 a month. Do that for a few years, use the money to pay for trade school *BAM* the doctored cured his poorness.

STREET PRICES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

A street price is what you'd pay without a prescription, which drives up the cost in a big way. The pharm I go to does 30 day supplies of Adderall for $62. Not $1800.


You can't buy without a script, so pharmacy costs only enter as an investment cost.

So you pay 62 for your scrip, flip it for 10-15 per pill, it adds up. I don't mean somehow take the money that would have gone to the meds and keep it. I'm saying that kid becomes a dealer.
 
2012-10-09 12:01:04 PM

S_CG_Phoenix: That kid in the picture is on Risperdal? That is an anti-psychotic, why does a boy his age need something like that?

Unless he is really suffering from something that the article isn't saying or I missed it but I used to take that for a short while and it was awful. Made me twitchy. Poor kid.


Read page 2. He was hearing and seeing things and feeling suicidal.
 
2012-10-09 12:07:08 PM

Ranger677: S_CG_Phoenix: That kid in the picture is on Risperdal? That is an anti-psychotic, why does a boy his age need something like that?

Unless he is really suffering from something that the article isn't saying or I missed it but I used to take that for a short while and it was awful. Made me twitchy. Poor kid.

Read page 2. He was hearing and seeing things and feeling suicidal.


Of course, it is probably due to the Adderall, but they do not want him to stop taking that.
 
2012-10-09 12:08:16 PM
Dear Doctor,

Why don't you suggest to these parents that they fix Timmy's diet, turn off the TV and parent, and get him tested for allergies before giving him drugs? WTF?

You are making everyone who legitimately has ADD look bad.

Drugs are one part of the solution for ADD, they will still need to watch their diets and learn study and organization skills that will help them with their unique issues.

/Hubby has ADD
//Pretty sure my Dad and Brother have it too
 
2012-10-09 12:23:25 PM

taurusowner: Throughout all of human history, the amount of people who were "smart" has been pretty small with the rest of us performing menial labor. For the last 100 years we've gotten to the point where we are actually capable of attempting to school entire populations. And I think we're seeing that it's not working. Just like not everyone actually belongs in college, not everyone has what it takes to really learn. For whatever reason, there's just a lot of people out there who are almost meant to be idiots, and the more we see this in practice, the more hoops we jump through to try to make all of the idiot square pegs to fit into the smart round holes. Not everyone is capable of being a doctor or lawyer. In the past, everyone else would just be a farmer or some other simple job. But now that we've automated most everything, we're discovering we have a lot more imbeciles than we know what to do with.


Sounds like we need a good war.
 
2012-10-09 12:23:31 PM

Ranger677: S_CG_Phoenix: That kid in the picture is on Risperdal? That is an anti-psychotic, why does a boy his age need something like that?

Unless he is really suffering from something that the article isn't saying or I missed it but I used to take that for a short while and it was awful. Made me twitchy. Poor kid.

Read page 2. He was hearing and seeing things and feeling suicidal.


Which is a side effect of Adderall (same page).

As to why he takes adderall "So I can listen to my parents and be a good boy." (paraphrasing, same page)

WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO YOUR KIDS!?!? WHY IS THE DOCTOR LETTING THEM!

Holy shiat, while my parents were FAR FROM not perfect they just smacked me when they were frustrated with me. They did not fark with my brain chemistry and we're willing to put the time in to help me succeed as a person.

Kids are a second full-time job for the rest of your life, if you cannot handle it get a cat and a vasectomy/tubes tied instead.
 
2012-10-09 12:24:08 PM

shortymac: Why don't you suggest to these parents that they fix Timmy's diet, turn off the TV and parent, and get him tested for allergies before giving him drugs?


Because there's nothing wrong with most of the kids.
 
2012-10-09 12:32:00 PM

WhyteRaven74: shortymac: Why don't you suggest to these parents that they fix Timmy's diet, turn off the TV and parent, and get him tested for allergies before giving him drugs?

Because there's nothing wrong with most of the kids.


If they are exhibiting hyperactive behavior it could be because of the amount of "Juice" well meaning parents give their kids. The cheaper brands tend to be mostly favoring and corn syrup but many people don't realize that. Don't get me started on "kid food" and school lunches, which again is full of corn syrup, dyes, etc.

Couple that with lack of exercise you have a kid bouncing off the walls.

Kids with allergies to strawberries can exhibit hyperactive behavior as well. Also plopping the kid in front of the TV and watching cartoon can overstimulate them. My friends had to stop watching Xena and Hercules in front of their 3 year old because she would imitate the show and roughhouse way too much.
 
2012-10-09 12:32:04 PM
But remember, kids, weed is evil.
 
2012-10-09 12:36:38 PM

orbister: If only these drugs had been around when Mozart was a kid, eh?


and if only Hitler had been accepted to art school, durr?
 
2012-10-09 12:39:31 PM

shortymac: If they are exhibiting hyperactive behavior it could be because of the amount of "Juice" well meaning parents give their kids


Or it could be that kids don't get much in the way of creative outlets these days.
 
2012-10-09 12:54:55 PM

WhyteRaven74: shortymac: If they are exhibiting hyperactive behavior it could be because of the amount of "Juice" well meaning parents give their kids

Or it could be that kids don't get much in the way of creative outlets these days.


That as well, I don't understand why the doctor wouldn't recommend this to the parent(s) but instead go directly to subscribing needless drugs (If the kids doesn't have ADD, don't give him ADD drugs!"
 
2012-10-09 01:02:50 PM

Killer Cars: That article was a lot more depressing than I figured it would be, and a pediatrician saying "We've decided as a society....we have to modify the kid" might be the most "holy sh*t, there's a lot to unpack there" statement I'll see all month anywhere.


Yeah, that one is quite the eye opener. Though, I've got to give a runner up to "People who are getting A's and B's, I won't give it to them." That one kind of drives home that the kid as a human's been remove from the equation. At that point, they're just a score that we're trying to optimize.
 
2012-10-09 01:22:12 PM

taurusowner: now that we've automated most everything, we're discovering we have a lot more imbeciles than we know what to do with.


That is one of the funniest sentences I've read in a long time.

As for TFA, that doc is doing what every other doc does when parents come in and describe a 10 year old acting like a 10 year old.

Say they're ADD and give'em meds.

/I'm shocked this surprises anyone
 
2012-10-09 01:26:58 PM

The Southern Logic Company: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: The Southern Logic Company: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.

THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).

I take Vyvanse daily (or I would....) and I pay 50 bucks for a month's worth. I just love paying out the ass for something I need only to have the doctor and pharmacist treat me like a drug seeker. Of course, people getting Anti-Depressants and Anti-Anxiety drugs don't get this kind of treatment because those are accepted by society. Can't function or stay on task? You must be lazy/stupid/poorly raised. Or out to get drugs.

Isn't that awesome when your doctor takes another gig and moves out of state, and then you have to spend almost a year convincing some new schlub that you aren't a junkie, going to their office for a $100 visit every month to get a refill? Land of the free.

Even better was, after I returned from China, my doctor was in another state and I could only bring 2 months worth of Vyvanse with me to China. Chinese doctors do not believe in nor do they prescribe anything for ADHD so I had to do without. Whatever, cost of living overseas.

I had a doctor here in Georgia flat out refuse to give me the medication because "You seem to have functioned fine without it for the past 8 months." Uh, no farkstick. I got everything done at the last freaking minute, my girlfriend had to literally FORCE me to go to teach some days and my apartment was an absolute dump of papers and beer bottles. I was still very much suffering from it even after exercising and meditating everyday. Its a miracle I didn't fark up enough to get fired. I have never had this much scrutiny over medication. Apparently ...


I know what you mean, brother. I was uninsured for almost 2 years and went into pretty much a cycle of farkery that when I got the position I have now (with benefits), I am still so stuck in the cycle of lastminuteomgstrrrrressssss that I ended up having a farking crying jag in my office not long ago after an insanely busy Fall semester finally wrapped (work at a uni). My doctor won't give me more than 15mg a day of Adderal, and that barely gets me out of bed. He gives my BF (we have the same doc) 60 mgs, as well as Lexapro (he just repeated what I told him, and he fills the scrip and turns them over to me) with barely a blink. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, but I shouldn't have to practice what I'm going to say when I go in so there's nothing he can misconstrue as me "sounding like a junkie". farker.
 
2012-10-09 01:30:38 PM

Magorn: ArkAngel: While I can appreciate the doctor's attempt to help the children as best he can, raising an entire generation on psychotropic drugs is not the way to do it.

All perscription drugs have side effects, using pyschotropics on adolescents is an almost gauranteed way to fark up thier brain chemistry during puberty and set them up for serious long-term chemical imbalances and brain disorders. This doctor is playing god and needs to have his license yanked, yesterday.

I say this as someone who has been informally diagnosed as ADHD all his life (and has two nephews with formal diagnoses) I had bad grades in elementary and HS, and would have ended up in special ed but for the fact that they always give an IQ test to justify that, and mine, in all modesty, usually tested off the scale (I have always had a knack for standardized tests, my PSATs SATs and LSATs were all 99th percentile).

If you have a brain like mine you need to learn how to make it work for you even if the academic world is basically set up in a way deliberately antagonistic to how you learn. Training yourself in coping mechanisms beats the fark out of becoming dependent on drugs. Especially because, while no one talks about ti, having an ADHD brain gives you huge congnitive ADVANTAGES when you learn to use it properly. Your pattern recognition skills, your ability to synthethize information from disparate sources quickly and your ability to "Think on your feet", to say nothing of your creativity, are all much higher than in "normal" kids.


My husband, who has it, has theorized that I have it as well. (All of my good friends do.)

I had good grades in school and worked hard so I joked that "I made it my biatch."

/fark yeah.
//no idea if I actually do or not.
 
2012-10-09 01:33:24 PM

rogue_L_chick: The Southern Logic Company: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: The Southern Logic Company: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.

THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).

I take Vyvanse daily (or I would....) and I pay 50 bucks for a month's worth. I just love paying out the ass for something I need only to have the doctor and pharmacist treat me like a drug seeker. Of course, people getting Anti-Depressants and Anti-Anxiety drugs don't get this kind of treatment because those are accepted by society. Can't function or stay on task? You must be lazy/stupid/poorly raised. Or out to get drugs.

Isn't that awesome when your doctor takes another gig and moves out of state, and then you have to spend almost a year convincing some new schlub that you aren't a junkie, going to their office for a $100 visit every month to get a refill? Land of the free.

Even better was, after I returned from China, my doctor was in another state and I could only bring 2 months worth of Vyvanse with me to China. Chinese doctors do not believe in nor do they prescribe anything for ADHD so I had to do without. Whatever, cost of living overseas.

I had a doctor here in Georgia flat out refuse to give me the medication because "You seem to have functioned fine without it for the past 8 months." Uh, no farkstick. I got everything done at the last freaking minute, my girlfriend had to literally FORCE me to go to teach some days and my apartment was an absolute dump of papers and beer bottles. I was still very much suffering from it even after exercising and meditating everyday. Its a miracle I didn't fark up enough to get fired. I have never had this much scrutiny o ...


Most likely, you are being way too modest about your issues. I'm guessing you are also a girl seeing a male doctor. Although women go to doctor's more they can be brushed off as being a "worry-wort".

I suggest finding a new doctor, preferably a CHILD psychologist, because ADD is labeled as a "childhood" disorder so they have more experience in that area.

I also recommend the book "Delivered from Distraction", it really helped me understand my ADD hubby and improved both of our lives.
 
2012-10-09 01:35:53 PM

ProfessorOhki: Killer Cars: That article was a lot more depressing than I figured it would be, and a pediatrician saying "We've decided as a society....we have to modify the kid" might be the most "holy sh*t, there's a lot to unpack there" statement I'll see all month anywhere.

Yeah, that one is quite the eye opener. Though, I've got to give a runner up to "People who are getting A's and B's, I won't give it to them." That one kind of drives home that the kid as a human's been remove from the equation. At that point, they're just a score that we're trying to optimize.


That is jacked the hell up. I am (and always was) an "overachiever". I would (and still do, to a degree) kill myself to turn out perfection. I was the kid getting straight As, but shoving a towel under my door so my parents didn't see the light on because I was up re-doing assignments unil 4 am because I was so afraid of "slacking". My natural inclination is to do the work, think it looks alright and go do something else as quickly as possible, however...my dad would beat the crap out of me for a misplaced comma. I would have killed to have a way to function without the stress of forgotten details. Still would. Too bad I have one more thing to stress about...having my doctor believe that this isn't healthy.
 
2012-10-09 01:44:56 PM
I am curious to see what the brain cancer rate will be one day for all of these kids who took speed and Prozac during their developmental years....
I'd say "Serves em right," but in the case of the kids, what happens won't REALLY be their fault.
 
2012-10-09 01:45:22 PM
Every once in a while, Fark makes me re-think stuff. Sitting here, reading this mess and re-reading what I wrote...it just hit me how truly gawd-awful I feel about this. It's really affecting everything. My poor family...last night I actually started hollering that it's not my job to tell people whether or not the graham crackers need to be put in a ziplock bag and please stop making me think for youuuuu..."

It's helpful I work in the benefits office...I'm making an appt today with a psychologist I just found that actually happens to treat kids and adults.

Thanks, all. :)
 
2012-10-09 01:59:20 PM

rogue_L_chick: It's helpful I work in the benefits office...I'm making an appt today with a psychologist I just found that actually happens to treat kids and adults.


I smarted your post because you did something smart. Carry on with my random internet blessing. :)
 
2012-10-09 02:12:14 PM

rogue_L_chick: Every once in a while, Fark makes me re-think stuff. Sitting here, reading this mess and re-reading what I wrote...it just hit me how truly gawd-awful I feel about this. It's really affecting everything. My poor family...last night I actually started hollering that it's not my job to tell people whether or not the graham crackers need to be put in a ziplock bag and please stop making me think for youuuuu..."

It's helpful I work in the benefits office...I'm making an appt today with a psychologist I just found that actually happens to treat kids and adults.

Thanks, all. :)


Won't a psychologist just put you on drugs?
 
2012-10-09 02:17:09 PM
taurusowner: "And I think we're seeing that it's not working."

Based on what? Your squishy feeling about 'dumb' people based on your experiences at fast food registers?
I mean, it's clearly not based on overwhelming objective evidence. Because that consistently shows kids today are smarter than kids in any previous generation.
And that test scores aren't uniformly rising in America almost entirely due to socioeconomic problems (poor, no parental involvement or both) and our habit of sliding up the requirements of those tests as children become smarter.

The only thing demonstrably not working, are the critical thinking and science classes that clearly didn't impart good mental habits on former students.
Because we keep seeing citizens gravitate toward policy positions and world views prior to assembling any evidence and then remaining there in stubborn opposition to evidence.
 
2012-10-09 02:21:20 PM
Killer Cars: "That article was a lot more depressing than I figured it would be, and a pediatrician saying "We've decided as a society....we have to modify the kid" might be the most "holy sh*t, there's a lot to unpack there" statement I'll see all month anywhere."

THIS. Quite a few times.
 
2012-10-09 02:26:03 PM

doczoidberg: Won't a psychologist just put you on drugs?


Psychologist can't prescribe drugs, IIRC. Only a psychiatrist can? (willing to be corrected)
 
2012-10-09 02:40:57 PM
"If they're feeling positive, happy, socializing more, and it's helping them, why wouldn't you? Why not?"

lulz, that's a helluva drug
 
2012-10-09 03:01:12 PM

rogue_L_chick: Every once in a while, Fark makes me re-think stuff. Sitting here, reading this mess and re-reading what I wrote...it just hit me how truly gawd-awful I feel about this. It's really affecting everything. My poor family...last night I actually started hollering that it's not my job to tell people whether or not the graham crackers need to be put in a ziplock bag and please stop making me think for youuuuu..."

It's helpful I work in the benefits office...I'm making an appt today with a psychologist I just found that actually happens to treat kids and adults.

Thanks, all. :)


Glad you're getting what you need! Sometimes its hard to notice what you're doing and how it effects the people around you, especially with ADHD. Best of luck to you with the new doc!
 
2012-10-09 03:22:30 PM

Magorn: If you have a brain like mine you need to learn how to make it work for you even if the academic world is basically set up in a way deliberately antagonistic to how you learn. Training yourself in coping mechanisms beats the fark out of becoming dependent on drugs. Especially because, while no one talks about ti, having an ADHD brain gives you huge congnitive ADVANTAGES when you learn to use it properly. Your pattern recognition skills, your ability to synthethize information from disparate sources quickly and your ability to "Think on your feet", to say nothing of your creativity, are all much higher than in "normal" kids.


^ Have enough irons in the fire at once and you'll find yourself getting distracted by things you needed to do anyway. As for academia, yup. There's some evidence that it's actually easier to pay attention to something when there's not a perfect signal-to-noise ratio. Having noise to actively tune out benefits the lecture more than a silent room full of people sitting still; it makes the student something other than entirely passive.
 
2012-10-09 03:37:33 PM
Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?
 
2012-10-09 03:50:26 PM

puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?


They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.
 
2012-10-09 04:04:27 PM

relcec: The school would be more than adequate if many weren't populated mostly by kids with dysfunctional families with formed out parenting skills. Blaming a lack of funding, the teachers, and crumbling infrastructure is just an efficient way to pretend like you actually give a shiat while ignoring the real problem.


THIS
 
2012-10-09 04:13:20 PM
 
2012-10-09 04:15:43 PM

shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.


My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).
 
2012-10-09 04:33:27 PM
Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now. Can't really expect any of the admins to have any psychology education but geeze, it still irks me something terrible.
 
2012-10-09 04:51:58 PM

ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.


Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.
 
2012-10-09 04:52:15 PM
Jacqueline Williams said she can't thank Dr. Anderson enough for diagnosing A.D.H.D. in her children - Eric, 15; Chekiara, 14; and Shamya, 11 - and prescribing Concerta, a long-acting stimulant, for them all.

All of them? Really? If every one of your children needs to be drugged in order to function, did you ever think you might need to look at your parenting?

For all these parents, I want to know what you tried first. How did you alter their diet, exercise routine, sleep schedule, tv/video game/computer usage, physical environment before you gave them meds? What non-med options didn't work for you? Did you study with them in the evenings? Did you help them get organized? What all failed you so that you ended up seeking that scrip?
 
2012-10-09 04:54:05 PM

orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.


Now days they skip the ADD and just use ADHD-I. Gots me one of those. Non-medicated.
 
2012-10-09 04:54:29 PM

The Southern Logic Company: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.

THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).

I take Vyvanse daily (or I would....) and I pay 50 bucks for a month's worth. I just love paying out the ass for something I need only to have the doctor and pharmacist treat me like a drug seeker. Of course, people getting Anti-Depressants and Anti-Anxiety drugs don't get this kind of treatment because those are accepted by society. Can't function or stay on task? You must be lazy/stupid/poorly raised. Or out to get drugs.


Strangely enough I get weird looks when I filled some of my perscriptions too. Of course I'm taking blood thinners, at one point I had the 45 dollar single use needles of blood thinners for several months. Luckily I have excellent insurance at work, the 1350/month$ bill becomes 2$. Not 2$ per dose, 2$. I do wonder what I would do if I did not have that insurance, I am not taking the meds because my pinkies are swollen, I have blood clots all over my lungs so I would likely die with a major interruption to my supply. I guess I would have to take warfarin and hope for the best.
 
2012-10-09 05:26:36 PM

JackieRabbit: This asshole's license should be yanked and fast. He has just given the state board of medical examiners sufficient cause to do so. This is just unbelievable.



Yeah, right, dream on. The doctors in this article were very careful in phrasing their responses:

"We are effectively forcing [emphasis added] local community psychiatrists to use the only tool at their disposal, which is psychotropic medications."

Any whiff of discipline against the doctor, and this becomes an issue of how rich white kids are getting prescriptions just to score 25 points higher on the SAT, but poor black kids are being railroaded into poverty. The rich doctors who prescribe for those rich white kids also happen to control disciplinary proceedings. You'd have to be a complete idiot to open this can of worms.
 
2012-10-09 05:34:16 PM

puppetmaster745: shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.

My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).


Horrible, flawed logic.

Say there's a unstable fellow who camps out a stretch of road and shoots at everyone who drives by. This is well known, so I drive down a different road and, as a result, am not shot. Since I could adjust myself to solve the problem of getting shot.... you're saying the homicidal maniac had nothing to do with the problem?

Just because something is capable of adapting to an environment doesn't suggest the environment was without flaws. People can adapt to some crazy shiat.
 
2012-10-09 06:10:25 PM

ProfessorOhki: puppetmaster745: shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.

My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).

Horrible, flawed logic.

Say there's a unstable fellow who camps out a stretch of road and shoots at everyone who drives by. This is well known, so I drive down a different road and, as a result, am not shot. Since I could adjust myself to solve the problem of getting shot.... you're saying the homicidal maniac had nothing to do with the problem?

Just because something is capable of adapting to an environment doesn't suggest the environment was without flaws. People can adapt to some crazy shiat.


That's kind of an skewed take on my point, but that's ok.

If the teachers weren't doing their jobs, the kids wouldn't be able to learn even with drugs.
 
2012-10-09 06:37:35 PM

doczoidberg: I am curious to see what the brain cancer rate will be one day for all of these kids who took speed and Prozac during their developmental years....
I'd say "Serves em right," but in the case of the kids, what happens won't REALLY be their fault.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine#History

seeing as how the drug has been around since 1887, and used to treat ADD since 1937 I'm sure some of our grandparents could offer some anecdotal evidence
 
2012-10-09 06:50:05 PM

puppetmaster745: ProfessorOhki: puppetmaster745: shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.

My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).

Horrible, flawed logic.

Say there's a unstable fellow who camps out a stretch of road and shoots at everyone who drives by. This is well known, so I drive down a different road and, as a result, am not shot. Since I could adjust myself to solve the problem of getting shot.... you're saying the homicidal maniac had nothing to do with the problem?

Just because something is capable of adapting to an environment doesn't suggest the environment was without flaws. People can adapt to some crazy shiat.

That's kind of an skewed take on my point, but that's ok.

If the teachers weren't doing their jobs, the kids wouldn't be able to learn even with drugs.


True. But if they were doing their jobs better, the kids might be engaged enough without it having to be forced. Responsibility/blame got to split somewhere and I don't think we can absolve the schools completely. There might be equally effective, less dangerous fixes on the other half of the equation; that's all I'm saying.

Besides, there's a difference between getting an A and learning. At least in my experience, it's possible to learn tons from classes you failed and ace classes where all it takes is, "write essay that agrees with instructor's interpretation." Heh, not to mention "get perfect scores but get marked down 20% for participation," scenarios. I love me some statistics, but overall letter grades are all but useless in getting a good sense of what's going on.
 
2012-10-09 06:50:54 PM
Dr. Anderson is one of the more outspoken proponents of an idea that is gaining interest among some physicians. They are prescribing stimulants to struggling students in schools starved of extra money - not to treat A.D.H.D., necessarily, but to boost their academic performance.

So, his solution to stupid school kids is to turn them into stupid school kids on speed?

Someone's not thinking their cunning plan through here.
 
2012-10-09 07:25:58 PM

ProfessorOhki: puppetmaster745: ProfessorOhki: puppetmaster745: shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.

My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).

Horrible, flawed logic.

Say there's a unstable fellow who camps out a stretch of road and shoots at everyone who drives by. This is well known, so I drive down a different road and, as a result, am not shot. Since I could adjust myself to solve the problem of getting shot.... you're saying the homicidal maniac had nothing to do with the problem?

Just because something is capable of adapting to an environment doesn't suggest the environment was without flaws. People can adapt to some crazy shiat.

That's kind of an skewed take on my point, but that's ok.

If the teachers weren't doing their jobs, the kids wouldn't be able to learn even with drugs.

True. But if they were doing their jobs better, the kids might be engaged enough without it having to be forced. Responsibility/blame got to split somewhere and I don't think we can absolve the schools completely. There might be equally effective, less dangerous fixes on the other half of the equation; that's all I'm saying.

Besides, there's a difference between getting an A and learning. At least in my experience, it's possible to learn tons from classes you failed and ace classes where all it takes is, "write essay that agrees with instructor's interpretation." Heh, not to mention "get perfect scores but get marked down 20% for participation," scenarios. I love me some statistics, but overall letter grades are all but useless in getting a good sense of what's going on.


I'm sure there is blame on both sides, but it seems like people are willing to do mental back flips to avoid putting the blame for bad school performance on anyone but the parents, students, and culture. Throwing more money at the problem is always the reflex solution.

There is a very strong anti-achievement mentality in this country. I know this is going to come across as very crass and insensitive, but perhaps many of the parents of students in "poor" schools are just as adept at raising children as they are handling life.

Is it possible that the success of students in "wealthy" districts has less to do with how much is spent on education and more to do with the work ethic that the generally well educated and achieving parents instill in them?
 
2012-10-09 07:30:54 PM

Hawnkee: Cool, one step closer to Huxley's Soma (not Carisoprodol). The masses should be quite under control in a few years. Not sure why who'd want to control over millions of slobbering drones, but the option is there I guess.


Better a gram than a damn.
 
2012-10-09 08:38:00 PM
Well, that's the last time I fill one of his Adderall rxs. He is an arrogant twit anyway.
 
2012-10-09 09:40:12 PM

puppetmaster745: I'm sure there is blame on both sides, but it seems like people are willing to do mental back flips to avoid putting the blame for bad school performance on anyone but the parents, students, and culture. Throwing more money at the problem is always the reflex solution.

There is a very strong anti-achievement mentality in this country. I know this is going to come across as very crass and insensitive, but perhaps many of the parents of students in "poor" schools are just as adept at raising children as they are handling life.

Is it possible that the success of students in "wealthy" districts has less to do with how much is spent on education and more to do with the work ethic that the generally well educated and achieving parents instill in them?


I don't really disagree with the direction you're going, but think about time as a resource. There's plenty of reasons someone can end up being poor, some totally avoidable, some completely outside their control, but once you're in that spot... how do you stop being poor? I know how much we love to point out the old bootstrap approach, but here's the thing: if you're working 3 jobs to provide a roof, food, and if you're unlucky, medical bills... how much face-to-face time are you going to have with your kid?

Even ignoring culture though, time's literally more valuable than money. No matter how much money you have, you're going to have no more than about 157k hours to, you yourself, directly influence your kid before they're 18. If you're working a 40 hour week (and sleeping for 7 hrs a night), you can spend no more than 53% of your time with the kid. If you're working a 75 hour week? 26% If you're from old money and don't need a job? 70% At that level of interaction, assuming the most perfectly caring parents in the world, a 2-3 fold difference in time they can spend with the child. There's really no good way to break out of being poor, while spending time with your family; there's a direct trade off there. How do you fix that? Your guess is as good as mine.
 
2012-10-09 09:45:35 PM

orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.


No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.
 
2012-10-09 10:33:45 PM

JackieRabbit: This asshole's license should be yanked and fast. He has just given the state board of medical examiners sufficient cause to do so


Maybe that's why he did it.

/"Somebody stop me"
 
2012-10-10 03:11:42 AM

ParagonComplex: orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.

No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.


But how do we know you were paying attention?
 
2012-10-10 05:23:05 AM
I'll just leave this here:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/11/the_terrible_awful_truth_about _ 1.html
 
2012-10-10 08:19:52 AM

ParagonComplex: orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.

No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.


There are three recognised subtypes of ADHD. Of those three, ADHD-(P)I - (Predominantly) Inattentive is what used to be called ADD. It's in DSM-IV. Perhaps you weren't paying attention?
 
2012-10-10 09:12:16 AM
Being poor, in this case, actually means qualifying for Medicaid. This means instead of having to learn to parent, they can go to a doctor at no cost to them, get drugs for their kids to wake up, pay attention, not be psychotic, calm down, and go to sleep. These (quite expensive) drugs are also free of charge to the "parent."
Essentially you and I (the taxpayers) are picking up a stiff tab for bad parenting. I see it daily at my job (working at CVS). These kids come in with 3, sometimes 4 meds a month, not counting the ones they might need for allergies or actually being ill. The list usually consists of 1) a schedule II stimulant like Adderall, Focalin, Concerta, or Vyvanse. 2) Intuniv (a non narcotic used to help focus), Risperdal (to keep them from going psycho), and Clonidine so they can wind down after being on amphetimines all day long. These kids are almost always medicaid patients with no co-pay. Kids with insurance sometimes are actually prescribed the CII drug for actual ADHD drugs. You can tell those kids because there IS a copay, and most of the times the parents have a coupon to reduce this copay a bit. Even crazier, in many cases medicaid doesn't cover the generic version of these drugs, but they will always cover the FAR more expensive name brand.
So essentially this is all government funded bad parenting. I could rant all day on this topic because I get to see this first hand.
 
2012-10-10 10:49:14 AM

MikeyistheDevil: Being poor, in this case, actually means qualifying for Medicaid. This means instead of having to learn to parent, they can go to a doctor at no cost to them, get drugs for their kids to wake up, pay attention, not be psychotic, calm down, and go to sleep. These (quite expensive) drugs are also free of charge to the "parent."
Essentially you and I (the taxpayers) are picking up a stiff tab for bad parenting. I see it daily at my job (working at CVS). These kids come in with 3, sometimes 4 meds a month, not counting the ones they might need for allergies or actually being ill. The list usually consists of 1) a schedule II stimulant like Adderall, Focalin, Concerta, or Vyvanse. 2) Intuniv (a non narcotic used to help focus), Risperdal (to keep them from going psycho), and Clonidine so they can wind down after being on amphetimines all day long. These kids are almost always medicaid patients with no co-pay. Kids with insurance sometimes are actually prescribed the CII drug for actual ADHD drugs. You can tell those kids because there IS a copay, and most of the times the parents have a coupon to reduce this copay a bit. Even crazier, in many cases medicaid doesn't cover the generic version of these drugs, but they will always cover the FAR more expensive name brand.
So essentially this is all government funded bad parenting. I could rant all day on this topic because I get to see this first hand.


Jesus god, why do the parents think it is okay?

NEWFLASH: amphetimines and other stimulants CALM kids with ADD. The home test for ADD is to give a 5 year old a cup of coffee, if he naps or quiets down considerably, he most likely has ADD.

If your kid needs a sleeping pill and an anti-psychotic while on ADD meds, they either don't have ADD or need their dosage lowered.
 
2012-10-10 07:54:52 PM

ProfessorOhki: ParagonComplex: orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.

No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.

But how do we know you were paying attention?


Because I made an A in the class and did a 20 minute group project on ADHD.

orbister: ParagonComplex: orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.

No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.

There are three recognised subtypes of ADHD. Of those three, ADHD-(P)I - (Predominantly) Inattentive is what used to be called ADD. It's in DSM-IV. Perhaps you weren't paying attention?


It still isn't ADD. It's all ADHD. The three subtypes really aren't entirely different at all. The three subtypes are just there to show which symypoms are more predominate. There are different severities of depression, but at the end of the day it's all still depression.
 
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