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(The New York Times)   Doctor in Georgia prescribes Adderall to kids suffering from: A) Attention Deficit Disorder B) Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder C) Being Poor   (nytimes.com) divider line 125
    More: Sick, Adderall, Cherokee County, prescription costs, psychotropic medication  
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7616 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Oct 2012 at 10:22 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-09 04:13:20 PM  
 
2012-10-09 04:15:43 PM  

shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.


My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).
 
2012-10-09 04:33:27 PM  
Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now. Can't really expect any of the admins to have any psychology education but geeze, it still irks me something terrible.
 
2012-10-09 04:51:58 PM  

ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.


Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.
 
2012-10-09 04:52:15 PM  
Jacqueline Williams said she can't thank Dr. Anderson enough for diagnosing A.D.H.D. in her children - Eric, 15; Chekiara, 14; and Shamya, 11 - and prescribing Concerta, a long-acting stimulant, for them all.

All of them? Really? If every one of your children needs to be drugged in order to function, did you ever think you might need to look at your parenting?

For all these parents, I want to know what you tried first. How did you alter their diet, exercise routine, sleep schedule, tv/video game/computer usage, physical environment before you gave them meds? What non-med options didn't work for you? Did you study with them in the evenings? Did you help them get organized? What all failed you so that you ended up seeking that scrip?
 
2012-10-09 04:54:05 PM  

orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.


Now days they skip the ADD and just use ADHD-I. Gots me one of those. Non-medicated.
 
2012-10-09 04:54:29 PM  

The Southern Logic Company: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Shadow Blasko: cman: I really wished that amphetamine was OTC

I just wish it costs what it did 4 years ago so I could actually afford my meds.

THIS.

Why the fark am I paying $35 a month for generic non-time-release? Even Ritalin is on the $4 list at Wally World and the grocery stores (well, not actually on the list, because it is controlled, but it's $4 nonetheless).

I take Vyvanse daily (or I would....) and I pay 50 bucks for a month's worth. I just love paying out the ass for something I need only to have the doctor and pharmacist treat me like a drug seeker. Of course, people getting Anti-Depressants and Anti-Anxiety drugs don't get this kind of treatment because those are accepted by society. Can't function or stay on task? You must be lazy/stupid/poorly raised. Or out to get drugs.


Strangely enough I get weird looks when I filled some of my perscriptions too. Of course I'm taking blood thinners, at one point I had the 45 dollar single use needles of blood thinners for several months. Luckily I have excellent insurance at work, the 1350/month$ bill becomes 2$. Not 2$ per dose, 2$. I do wonder what I would do if I did not have that insurance, I am not taking the meds because my pinkies are swollen, I have blood clots all over my lungs so I would likely die with a major interruption to my supply. I guess I would have to take warfarin and hope for the best.
 
2012-10-09 05:26:36 PM  

JackieRabbit: This asshole's license should be yanked and fast. He has just given the state board of medical examiners sufficient cause to do so. This is just unbelievable.



Yeah, right, dream on. The doctors in this article were very careful in phrasing their responses:

"We are effectively forcing [emphasis added] local community psychiatrists to use the only tool at their disposal, which is psychotropic medications."

Any whiff of discipline against the doctor, and this becomes an issue of how rich white kids are getting prescriptions just to score 25 points higher on the SAT, but poor black kids are being railroaded into poverty. The rich doctors who prescribe for those rich white kids also happen to control disciplinary proceedings. You'd have to be a complete idiot to open this can of worms.
 
2012-10-09 05:34:16 PM  

puppetmaster745: shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.

My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).


Horrible, flawed logic.

Say there's a unstable fellow who camps out a stretch of road and shoots at everyone who drives by. This is well known, so I drive down a different road and, as a result, am not shot. Since I could adjust myself to solve the problem of getting shot.... you're saying the homicidal maniac had nothing to do with the problem?

Just because something is capable of adapting to an environment doesn't suggest the environment was without flaws. People can adapt to some crazy shiat.
 
2012-10-09 06:10:25 PM  

ProfessorOhki: puppetmaster745: shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.

My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).

Horrible, flawed logic.

Say there's a unstable fellow who camps out a stretch of road and shoots at everyone who drives by. This is well known, so I drive down a different road and, as a result, am not shot. Since I could adjust myself to solve the problem of getting shot.... you're saying the homicidal maniac had nothing to do with the problem?

Just because something is capable of adapting to an environment doesn't suggest the environment was without flaws. People can adapt to some crazy shiat.


That's kind of an skewed take on my point, but that's ok.

If the teachers weren't doing their jobs, the kids wouldn't be able to learn even with drugs.
 
2012-10-09 06:37:35 PM  

doczoidberg: I am curious to see what the brain cancer rate will be one day for all of these kids who took speed and Prozac during their developmental years....
I'd say "Serves em right," but in the case of the kids, what happens won't REALLY be their fault.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine#History

seeing as how the drug has been around since 1887, and used to treat ADD since 1937 I'm sure some of our grandparents could offer some anecdotal evidence
 
2012-10-09 06:50:05 PM  

puppetmaster745: ProfessorOhki: puppetmaster745: shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.

My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).

Horrible, flawed logic.

Say there's a unstable fellow who camps out a stretch of road and shoots at everyone who drives by. This is well known, so I drive down a different road and, as a result, am not shot. Since I could adjust myself to solve the problem of getting shot.... you're saying the homicidal maniac had nothing to do with the problem?

Just because something is capable of adapting to an environment doesn't suggest the environment was without flaws. People can adapt to some crazy shiat.

That's kind of an skewed take on my point, but that's ok.

If the teachers weren't doing their jobs, the kids wouldn't be able to learn even with drugs.


True. But if they were doing their jobs better, the kids might be engaged enough without it having to be forced. Responsibility/blame got to split somewhere and I don't think we can absolve the schools completely. There might be equally effective, less dangerous fixes on the other half of the equation; that's all I'm saying.

Besides, there's a difference between getting an A and learning. At least in my experience, it's possible to learn tons from classes you failed and ace classes where all it takes is, "write essay that agrees with instructor's interpretation." Heh, not to mention "get perfect scores but get marked down 20% for participation," scenarios. I love me some statistics, but overall letter grades are all but useless in getting a good sense of what's going on.
 
2012-10-09 06:50:54 PM  
Dr. Anderson is one of the more outspoken proponents of an idea that is gaining interest among some physicians. They are prescribing stimulants to struggling students in schools starved of extra money - not to treat A.D.H.D., necessarily, but to boost their academic performance.

So, his solution to stupid school kids is to turn them into stupid school kids on speed?

Someone's not thinking their cunning plan through here.
 
2012-10-09 07:25:58 PM  

ProfessorOhki: puppetmaster745: ProfessorOhki: puppetmaster745: shortymac: puppetmaster745: Let me get this straight, the snowflakes get good grades when the farking pay attention? How is this the school's fault again?

They don't have ANYTHING wrong with them, yet are being given drugs for people with ADD so they can "be a good boy".

There's something very sick and wrong with that line of thinking.

My point is that if adjusting variable A (the kids) solves the problem, the problem wasn't caused by variable B (the school).

Horrible, flawed logic.

Say there's a unstable fellow who camps out a stretch of road and shoots at everyone who drives by. This is well known, so I drive down a different road and, as a result, am not shot. Since I could adjust myself to solve the problem of getting shot.... you're saying the homicidal maniac had nothing to do with the problem?

Just because something is capable of adapting to an environment doesn't suggest the environment was without flaws. People can adapt to some crazy shiat.

That's kind of an skewed take on my point, but that's ok.

If the teachers weren't doing their jobs, the kids wouldn't be able to learn even with drugs.

True. But if they were doing their jobs better, the kids might be engaged enough without it having to be forced. Responsibility/blame got to split somewhere and I don't think we can absolve the schools completely. There might be equally effective, less dangerous fixes on the other half of the equation; that's all I'm saying.

Besides, there's a difference between getting an A and learning. At least in my experience, it's possible to learn tons from classes you failed and ace classes where all it takes is, "write essay that agrees with instructor's interpretation." Heh, not to mention "get perfect scores but get marked down 20% for participation," scenarios. I love me some statistics, but overall letter grades are all but useless in getting a good sense of what's going on.


I'm sure there is blame on both sides, but it seems like people are willing to do mental back flips to avoid putting the blame for bad school performance on anyone but the parents, students, and culture. Throwing more money at the problem is always the reflex solution.

There is a very strong anti-achievement mentality in this country. I know this is going to come across as very crass and insensitive, but perhaps many of the parents of students in "poor" schools are just as adept at raising children as they are handling life.

Is it possible that the success of students in "wealthy" districts has less to do with how much is spent on education and more to do with the work ethic that the generally well educated and achieving parents instill in them?
 
2012-10-09 07:30:54 PM  

Hawnkee: Cool, one step closer to Huxley's Soma (not Carisoprodol). The masses should be quite under control in a few years. Not sure why who'd want to control over millions of slobbering drones, but the option is there I guess.


Better a gram than a damn.
 
2012-10-09 08:38:00 PM  
Well, that's the last time I fill one of his Adderall rxs. He is an arrogant twit anyway.
 
2012-10-09 09:40:12 PM  

puppetmaster745: I'm sure there is blame on both sides, but it seems like people are willing to do mental back flips to avoid putting the blame for bad school performance on anyone but the parents, students, and culture. Throwing more money at the problem is always the reflex solution.

There is a very strong anti-achievement mentality in this country. I know this is going to come across as very crass and insensitive, but perhaps many of the parents of students in "poor" schools are just as adept at raising children as they are handling life.

Is it possible that the success of students in "wealthy" districts has less to do with how much is spent on education and more to do with the work ethic that the generally well educated and achieving parents instill in them?


I don't really disagree with the direction you're going, but think about time as a resource. There's plenty of reasons someone can end up being poor, some totally avoidable, some completely outside their control, but once you're in that spot... how do you stop being poor? I know how much we love to point out the old bootstrap approach, but here's the thing: if you're working 3 jobs to provide a roof, food, and if you're unlucky, medical bills... how much face-to-face time are you going to have with your kid?

Even ignoring culture though, time's literally more valuable than money. No matter how much money you have, you're going to have no more than about 157k hours to, you yourself, directly influence your kid before they're 18. If you're working a 40 hour week (and sleeping for 7 hrs a night), you can spend no more than 53% of your time with the kid. If you're working a 75 hour week? 26% If you're from old money and don't need a job? 70% At that level of interaction, assuming the most perfectly caring parents in the world, a 2-3 fold difference in time they can spend with the child. There's really no good way to break out of being poor, while spending time with your family; there's a direct trade off there. How do you fix that? Your guess is as good as mine.
 
2012-10-09 09:45:35 PM  

orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.


No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.
 
2012-10-09 10:33:45 PM  

JackieRabbit: This asshole's license should be yanked and fast. He has just given the state board of medical examiners sufficient cause to do so


Maybe that's why he did it.

/"Somebody stop me"
 
2012-10-10 03:11:42 AM  

ParagonComplex: orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.

No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.


But how do we know you were paying attention?
 
2012-10-10 05:23:05 AM  
I'll just leave this here:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/11/the_terrible_awful_truth_about _ 1.html
 
2012-10-10 08:19:52 AM  

ParagonComplex: orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.

No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.


There are three recognised subtypes of ADHD. Of those three, ADHD-(P)I - (Predominantly) Inattentive is what used to be called ADD. It's in DSM-IV. Perhaps you weren't paying attention?
 
2012-10-10 09:12:16 AM  
Being poor, in this case, actually means qualifying for Medicaid. This means instead of having to learn to parent, they can go to a doctor at no cost to them, get drugs for their kids to wake up, pay attention, not be psychotic, calm down, and go to sleep. These (quite expensive) drugs are also free of charge to the "parent."
Essentially you and I (the taxpayers) are picking up a stiff tab for bad parenting. I see it daily at my job (working at CVS). These kids come in with 3, sometimes 4 meds a month, not counting the ones they might need for allergies or actually being ill. The list usually consists of 1) a schedule II stimulant like Adderall, Focalin, Concerta, or Vyvanse. 2) Intuniv (a non narcotic used to help focus), Risperdal (to keep them from going psycho), and Clonidine so they can wind down after being on amphetimines all day long. These kids are almost always medicaid patients with no co-pay. Kids with insurance sometimes are actually prescribed the CII drug for actual ADHD drugs. You can tell those kids because there IS a copay, and most of the times the parents have a coupon to reduce this copay a bit. Even crazier, in many cases medicaid doesn't cover the generic version of these drugs, but they will always cover the FAR more expensive name brand.
So essentially this is all government funded bad parenting. I could rant all day on this topic because I get to see this first hand.
 
2012-10-10 10:49:14 AM  

MikeyistheDevil: Being poor, in this case, actually means qualifying for Medicaid. This means instead of having to learn to parent, they can go to a doctor at no cost to them, get drugs for their kids to wake up, pay attention, not be psychotic, calm down, and go to sleep. These (quite expensive) drugs are also free of charge to the "parent."
Essentially you and I (the taxpayers) are picking up a stiff tab for bad parenting. I see it daily at my job (working at CVS). These kids come in with 3, sometimes 4 meds a month, not counting the ones they might need for allergies or actually being ill. The list usually consists of 1) a schedule II stimulant like Adderall, Focalin, Concerta, or Vyvanse. 2) Intuniv (a non narcotic used to help focus), Risperdal (to keep them from going psycho), and Clonidine so they can wind down after being on amphetimines all day long. These kids are almost always medicaid patients with no co-pay. Kids with insurance sometimes are actually prescribed the CII drug for actual ADHD drugs. You can tell those kids because there IS a copay, and most of the times the parents have a coupon to reduce this copay a bit. Even crazier, in many cases medicaid doesn't cover the generic version of these drugs, but they will always cover the FAR more expensive name brand.
So essentially this is all government funded bad parenting. I could rant all day on this topic because I get to see this first hand.


Jesus god, why do the parents think it is okay?

NEWFLASH: amphetimines and other stimulants CALM kids with ADD. The home test for ADD is to give a 5 year old a cup of coffee, if he naps or quiets down considerably, he most likely has ADD.

If your kid needs a sleeping pill and an anti-psychotic while on ADD meds, they either don't have ADD or need their dosage lowered.
 
2012-10-10 07:54:52 PM  

ProfessorOhki: ParagonComplex: orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.

No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.

But how do we know you were paying attention?


Because I made an A in the class and did a 20 minute group project on ADHD.

orbister: ParagonComplex: orbister: ParagonComplex: Piece of shiat inaccurate headline since a] and b] are the exact same things now.

Nope. ADD or ADHD-I is a subtype of ADHD, not a synonym for it.

No, they're the same thing. When was your 4000 series college leveled Learning and Behavoral Disorder psychology class? Mine was a couple semesters ago. ADHD is the new name for ADD.

There are three recognised subtypes of ADHD. Of those three, ADHD-(P)I - (Predominantly) Inattentive is what used to be called ADD. It's in DSM-IV. Perhaps you weren't paying attention?


It still isn't ADD. It's all ADHD. The three subtypes really aren't entirely different at all. The three subtypes are just there to show which symypoms are more predominate. There are different severities of depression, but at the end of the day it's all still depression.
 
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