Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

They were trying to set off the large explosive with smaller ones. There is video of it.

GregoryD: Yes, the NRA would have been instantly disbanded for lack of holding a meeting. The NRA would have ceased to exist.

Even worse. Had they not held their meeting as the law demanded, the gubmint was gonna git their guns!!!!!

Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

The police tripped the sprinklers to distract the assailants, get a proper killshot and say, "Why don't you chill out."

EyeballKid: super_grass: That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.

I'm sorry, what part aren't you able to believe? Was there not an NRA rally in Colorado days after the Columbine shooting? Was the NRA not doing one of its fundraisers under its effective, yet deceptive, theme of "the gubmint's tryin' to take yer guns?" Please, please, I beg you, set a fool such as I straight as to how the NRA handed out bandages to the survivors and held prayer vigils outside the school.

Except that the rally had been planned for months and wasn't in the same area of Colorado?

EyeballKid: super_grass: That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.

I'm sorry, what part aren't you able to believe? Was there not an NRA rally in Colorado days after the Columbine shooting? Was the NRA not doing one of its fundraisers under its effective, yet deceptive, theme of "the gubmint's tryin' to take yer guns?" Please, please, I beg you, set a fool such as I straight as to how the NRA handed out bandages to the survivors and held prayer vigils outside the school.

Please explain why you believe that the National Rifle Association should have violated New York state law.

thecpt: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

They were trying to set off the large explosive with smaller ones. There is video of it.

Ah. Interesting.

mortimer_ford: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

The police tripped the sprinklers to distract the assailants, get a proper killshot and say, "Why don't you chill out."

No. Sprinklers down't work how you think they work.

cbecker333: So the NRA scales back its meeting to the minimum required by state law and they are inconsiderate? Would it also be considered inconsiderate to call "every gun oil salesman involved with the NRA...Scum of the farking earth"?

I wouldn't call it inconsiderate.

I'd call it pathetic hyperbole that undermines any point he may have been trying to make.

I remember every idiot columnist taking the opportunity to beat up a favorite boogey man. "It was those violent video games!!" "Bullying!!" "It's those violent movies." And the only person was Chris Rock who said "what about crazy? What ever happened to plain old crazy?"

The worst was the "goths? OMG what are Goths? Parents, here's how to tell if your children are goths" media.

Local news in DC had an anchor saying "they were goths. are goths a gang?" and then they cut to a live shot of a reporter standing in front of a nightclub called Heaven and Hell so she could could say, "the police tell us 'no,' they do not consider goths a gang" with that weird cadence they all use. I could not figure out WTF Club Heaven and Hell had to do with it, other than it's name. How was that decision made? We can't just have the anchor make an idiotic statement about goths and gangs, let's have a reporter stand outside a club that has nothing to do with anything and make an idiotic statement about goths and gangs. Yes, that'll be some might fine reporting there Lou.

Mose: thecpt: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

They were trying to set off the large explosive with smaller ones. There is video of it.

Ah. Interesting.

mortimer_ford: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

The police tripped the sprinklers to distract the assailants, get a proper killshot and say, "Why don't you chill out."

No. Sprinklers down't work how you think they work.

You mean they don't spray water?

mortimer_ford: Mose: thecpt: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

They were trying to set off the large explosive with smaller ones. There is video of it.

Ah. Interesting.

mortimer_ford: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

The police tripped the sprinklers to distract the assailants, get a proper killshot and say, "Why don't you chill out."

No. Sprinklers down't work how you think they work.

You mean they don't spray water?

Ha! They actually shoot vapor condensation beams!

/Also, lightbulbs are actually darksuckers.

mortimer_ford: Mose: thecpt: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

They were trying to set off the large explosive with smaller ones. There is video of it.

Ah. Interesting.

mortimer_ford: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

The police tripped the sprinklers to distract the assailants, get a proper killshot and say, "Why don't you chill out."

No. Sprinklers down't work how you think they work.

You mean they don't spray water?

No, that's not what I mean.

Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

They set off a few small bombs which were supposed to trigger a big bomb (no idea why they did it this way) before the shooting began. They originally intended to shoot people leaving the school, but since the bomb didn't go off as planned, they went inside and did their shooting.

Dudes hung up on a certain stupidity that radiated from this event. How hard is that to understand? Stop trying to weigh everything.

machoprogrammer: (no idea why they did it this way)

Because they didn't know what they hell they were doing.

Funny that in order to dispel all these rumors and myths the author had to tell me about them first.

mortimer_ford: Dudes hung up on a certain stupidity that radiated from this event. How hard is that to understand? Stop trying to weigh everything.

This is addressed to karmaceutical.

machoprogrammer: They set off a few small bombs which were supposed to trigger a big bomb (no idea why they did it this way) before the shooting began.

because 17 year -old kids are not logistics geniuses.

Dimensio: EyeballKid: super_grass: That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.

I'm sorry, what part aren't you able to believe? Was there not an NRA rally in Colorado days after the Columbine shooting? Was the NRA not doing one of its fundraisers under its effective, yet deceptive, theme of "the gubmint's tryin' to take yer guns?" Please, please, I beg you, set a fool such as I straight as to how the NRA handed out bandages to the survivors and held prayer vigils outside the school.

Please explain why you believe that the National Rifle Association should have violated New York state law.

Because meetings can be rescheduled and it was a giant figurative "fark you" to the mayor just as Michael Moore depicted in the film.

OnlyM3: blue shirt brigade

They should have sent the Red Shirts in. It's what they're for.

karmaceutical: If some guidance counselor in Moooseknuckle, AK gives a misfit kid detention for wearing a Marilyn Manson T-shirt is some kind of tragedy on par with kids being shot to death.

Where did he say that the two offenses are on par with each other?

Just because he talks about one aspect of the fallout from Columbine (which, yes, does matter) doesn't mean that he's saying they're the same.

karmaceutical: "I'm not sure what point you are trying to make."

That it is absurd of you to repeatedly compare the victims of the two problems.
It was absurd to suggest we excuse the disaster of profiling, harassing and demonizing innocent kids simply because the kids in Colorado were dead.
And it's absurd to suggest that talking about the problem of profiling, harassing and demonizing innocent kids is the same as some strawman argument you're furiously trying to build, about who the 'real' or 'bigger' victims really are.

The point that you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that every outcast teenager profiled, harassed and demonized was an *unnecessary* *additional* victim that society created without a shred of fact or logic to justify it. It was a classic witch-hunt in which our lingering prejudice was allowed to run wild under the guise of trying to 'do something' about a problem displayed in Columbine that was spectacularly divorced from any understanding of what the actual problem in Columbine *was*.

Myth #8. The lyrics of songs by Marilyn Manson and Rammstein were an influence on them, motivating them to do what they did.

GregoryD: Dimensio: EyeballKid: super_grass: That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.

I'm sorry, what part aren't you able to believe? Was there not an NRA rally in Colorado days after the Columbine shooting? Was the NRA not doing one of its fundraisers under its effective, yet deceptive, theme of "the gubmint's tryin' to take yer guns?" Please, please, I beg you, set a fool such as I straight as to how the NRA handed out bandages to the survivors and held prayer vigils outside the school.

Please explain why you believe that the National Rifle Association should have violated New York state law.

Because meetings can be rescheduled and it was a giant figurative "fark you" to the mayor just as Michael Moore depicted in the film.

To change the venue for the required annual meeting, there is a requirement of 10 days prior notice.
Heston's speech, as shown in the Moore film, was cobbled to gether from a speech given a year later in North Carolina.

Michael Moore has as much credibility as a documentarian, as Bill O'Reilly has as a journalist.

RET71: I didn't know about #1 until I read that article. Knowing they weren't bullied outcasts turns the way one looks at Columbine upside down.

Only if you bought the initial media hype. Columbine was basically two mentally disturbed kids who decided it'd be fun to blow up the school and shoot folks trying to escape, and turned into a shooting spree when the bomb turned out to be a dud.

The simple fact is that no one, from the school system to the parents to the cops, wanted to take responsibility for stopping what amounted to an act of domestic terrorism committed by two teenagers that spent months talking about it, planning it, and who had been arrested in the past for playing around with the very same "toys" they brought to school that day, simply because they wanted to do so. No one could simply understand that those kids were nuts, and so everyone cast about for something to blame.

Various groups and interests focused on social elements of which various conservative factors of our society disapprove. Music, strange dress, gangs - sure, none of that actually applied, but it made for riveting controversy and got you to watch the news, and provided a reassuring "pat explanation" to the folks that don't bother to think things through.

Don't forget the opportunists, too, particularly the religious opportunists, who tried to do everything from blame our society's increasing secularism to martyr one of the victims just to push religious propaganda.

The fun part is drawing parallels between our country's reaction to Columbine and our country's reaction to other preventable tragedies - Oklahoma City, Waco, 9/11.

give me doughnuts: Michael Moore has as much credibility as a documentarian, as Bill O'Reilly has as a journalist.

So, neither side is good? Is there another way to to phrase this fresh, thoroughly thought out position?

wildcardjack: machoprogrammer: (no idea why they did it this way)

Because they didn't know what they hell they were doing.

Funny that in order to dispel all these rumors and myths the author had to tell me about them first.

It's the author's fault that you haven't paid attention?
Or maybe you are too young to have read much about it or heard much about it when it happened and in the several months following.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: RET71: I didn't know about #1 until I read that article. Knowing they weren't bullied outcasts turns the way one looks at Columbine upside down.

Really? Being bullied isn't an excuse or even a legitimate motivation for slaughtering innocent students. Knowing they weren't bullied doesn't change anything.

Knowing they weren't bullied means that we have to look elsewhere for the cause.
It is part of the puzzle.

give me doughnuts: GregoryD: Dimensio: EyeballKid: super_grass: That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.

I'm sorry, what part aren't you able to believe? Was there not an NRA rally in Colorado days after the Columbine shooting? Was the NRA not doing one of its fundraisers under its effective, yet deceptive, theme of "the gubmint's tryin' to take yer guns?" Please, please, I beg you, set a fool such as I straight as to how the NRA handed out bandages to the survivors and held prayer vigils outside the school.

Please explain why you believe that the National Rifle Association should have violated New York state law.

Because meetings can be rescheduled and it was a giant figurative "fark you" to the mayor just as Michael Moore depicted in the film.

To change the venue for the required annual meeting, there is a requirement of 10 days prior notice.
Heston's speech, as shown in the Moore film, was cobbled to gether from a speech given a year later in North Carolina.

Michael Moore has as much credibility as a documentarian, as Bill O'Reilly has as a journalist.

Once again, I'm sure the NRA would have disbanded for doing the right thing.

I've read the speech and it is exactly as it is depicted in a film. A giant fark off to the mayor and the people affected by the tragedy. It is far more embarrassing when Heston is intercut saying from his "cold dead hands" and a mourning father.

EyeballKid: give me doughnuts: Michael Moore has as much credibility as a documentarian, as Bill O'Reilly has as a journalist.

So, neither side is good? Is there another way to to phrase this fresh, thoroughly thought out position?

No. It means that Michael Moore doesn't make documentaries. He makes propaganda pieces that reflect his personal opinions and/or positions that he thinks will sell better.

Mose: thecpt: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

They were trying to set off the large explosive with smaller ones. There is video of it.

Ah. Interesting.

mortimer_ford: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

The police tripped the sprinklers to distract the assailants, get a proper killshot and say, "Why don't you chill out."

No. Sprinklers don't work how you think they work.

They've seen it on TV! All of them going off at once because the Hero/villain held his Bic under one spray head is Hollywood Gospel!

Libs, (the congenitally stupid), do not concern themselves with this Reality thing...

It's the same as all those cop/pig shows where the Good Guys hold a gun on the Bad Guy and say "Drop it!" The reality is 14 rounds fired if they so much as see a hero sandwich wrapped in aluminum foil in the suspect's hand. Then comes the "He was comin' right at me!" defense.

GregoryD: give me doughnuts: GregoryD: Dimensio: EyeballKid: super_grass: That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.

I'm sorry, what part aren't you able to believe? Was there not an NRA rally in Colorado days after the Columbine shooting? Was the NRA not doing one of its fundraisers under its effective, yet deceptive, theme of "the gubmint's tryin' to take yer guns?" Please, please, I beg you, set a fool such as I straight as to how the NRA handed out bandages to the survivors and held prayer vigils outside the school.

Please explain why you believe that the National Rifle Association should have violated New York state law.

Because meetings can be rescheduled and it was a giant figurative "fark you" to the mayor just as Michael Moore depicted in the film.

To change the venue for the required annual meeting, there is a requirement of 10 days prior notice.
Heston's speech, as shown in the Moore film, was cobbled to gether from a speech given a year later in North Carolina.

Michael Moore has as much credibility as a documentarian, as Bill O'Reilly has as a journalist.

Once again, I'm sure the NRA would have disbanded for doing the right thing.

I've read the speech and it is exactly as it is depicted in a film. A giant fark off to the mayor and the people affected by the tragedy. It is far more embarrassing when Heston is intercut saying from his "cold dead hands" and a mourning father.

If you had actually read the speech, as you claim, then you would know it is vastly different from what Moore showed. You would also know that it was given in May of 2000 in Charlotte, North Carolina.

GregoryD: I've read the speech and it is exactly as it is depicted in a film. A giant fark off to the mayor and the people affected by the tragedy. It is far more embarrassing when Heston is intercut saying from his "cold dead hands" and a mourning father.

Here is the transcript of the actual speech. Michael Moore edited in the "from my cold, dead hands" from a speech he gave a year later.

You never notcied how Charlton Heston's shirt and tie magically change colors?

Left margin please. I can't read that article without one.

gunga galunga: GregoryD: I've read the speech and it is exactly as it is depicted in a film. A giant fark off to the mayor and the people affected by the tragedy. It is far more embarrassing when Heston is intercut saying from his "cold dead hands" and a mourning father.

Here is the transcript of the actual speech. Michael Moore edited in the "from my cold, dead hands" from a speech he gave a year later.

You never notcied how Charlton Heston's shirt and tie magically change colors?

So did everyone else. That is my point. Nobody thinks they are a part of the same speech, but it shows the coldness of the organization.

GregoryD:
So did everyone else. That is my point. Nobody thinks they are a part of the same speech, but it shows the coldness of the organization.

Did you read the linked speech? If you think that was a disrespectful or 'cold' speech your disingenuous at best. As a liberal atheist that was a damn well written speech and I agree strongly with it's core sentiments.

rcuhljr:
Did you read the linked speech? If you think that was a disrespectful or 'cold' speech you're disingenuous at best. As a liberal atheist that was a damn well written speech and I agree strongly with it's core sentiments.

When did the preview before post default go away?

give me doughnuts: No. It means that Michael Moore doesn't make documentaries. He makes propaganda pieces that reflect his personal opinions and/or positions that he thinks will sell better.

Sure he does. Just because he makes polemics doesn't mean they're not documentaries.

daxxenos: Mose: thecpt: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

They were trying to set off the large explosive with smaller ones. There is video of it.

Ah. Interesting.

mortimer_ford: Mose: Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?

The police tripped the sprinklers to distract the assailants, get a proper killshot and say, "Why don't you chill out."

No. Sprinklers don't work how you think they work.

They've seen it on TV! All of them going off at once because the Hero/villain held his Bic under one spray head is Hollywood Gospel!Libs, (the congenitally stupid), do not concern themselves with this Reality thing...It's the same as all those cop/pig shows where the Good Guys hold a gun on the Bad Guy and say "Drop it!" The reality is 14 rounds fired if they so much as see a hero sandwich wrapped in aluminum foil in the suspect's hand. Then comes the "He was comin' right at me!" defense.

Derp

ActionFigure: Or maybe you are too young to have read much about it or heard much about it when it happened and in the several months following.

Other direction. I heard all about it and stopped caring at the time. It think it was when the Christians took over about that bit at the end I smelled there was no truth to be found beyond the basics.

And not one of those now-discredited myths will change anyone's mind about what happened, or why.

If nothing else, the whatever-is-less-than-zero tolerance policies (you bit bites out of your pizza slice so it was in the shape of a gun? Suspended!") will only continue to get ratcheted up.

Start them on this path in High School, close the deal when TSA agents are posted in mot public facilities.

wildcardjack: machoprogrammer: (no idea why they did it this way)

Because they didn't know what they hell they were doing.

Funny that in order to dispel all these rumors and myths the author had to tell me about them first.

Were you alive in 1998? I heard all of these rumors a thousand times over the years (was a freshman in HS).


gunga galunga: GregoryD: I've read the speech and it is exactly as it is depicted in a film. A giant fark off to the mayor and the people affected by the tragedy. It is far more embarrassing when Heston is intercut saying from his "cold dead hands" and a mourning father.

Here is the transcript of the actual speech. Michael Moore edited in the "from my cold, dead hands" from a speech he gave a year later.

You never notcied how Charlton Heston's shirt and tie magically change colors?

Reminds me of the Simpsons when Homer was accused of sexual harassment. "I noticed she was sitting on her... sweet.... can!"

Magnanimous_J: fireclown: is the marytering story really a thing? I missed that somehow.

Oh boy, was it a thing. I went to a Christian high school and was a Sophomore during Columbine. Our school used it as proof for MONTHS afterward how evil the world was, and how Christians were always persecuted, and how prayer in schools would have fixed all this etc. etc. I think the martyr book was required reading for freshmen the next year.

Eru Ilúvatar on an Eggo waffle, there was even a sappy tribute song based on that book. The show choir (in which I, thankfully, was not) at the high school I attended in '07-'08 performed it... with a cello and bagpipes if I recall.

rcuhljr: GregoryD:
So did everyone else. That is my point. Nobody thinks they are a part of the same speech, but it shows the coldness of the organization.

Did you read the linked speech? If you think that was a disrespectful or 'cold' speech your disingenuous at best. As a liberal atheist that was a damn well written speech and I agree strongly with it's core sentiments.

He linked the wrong speech by the way.

Charlton Heston's Speech at the annual NRA Convention

01 May, 1999

Denver, Colorado


(Editor's Note: The following remarks by NRA President Charlton Heston were transcribed by CNS from a RealVideo presentation of his speech before the NRA's national meeting in Denver, Colorado May 1.)

Thank you. Thank you very much. Good morning. I am very happy to welcome you to this abbreviated annual gathering of the National Rifle Association. Thank you all for coming and thank you for supporting your organization.

I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Or course, you have a right to be here. As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that.

But it's fitting and proper that we should do this. Because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity.

I have a message from the mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver. He sent me this and said don't come here, we don't want you here. I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing. But the mayor said don't come.

I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for the newspaper ads saying the same thing, don't come here. This is our country. As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land.

They say we'll create a media distraction, but we were preceded here by hundreds of intrusive news crews. They say we'll create political distraction, but it's not been the NRA pressing for political advantage, calling press conferences to propose vast packages of new legislation.

Still they say don't come here. I guess what saddens me the most is how that suggests complicity. It implies that you and I and 80 million honest gun owners are somehow to blame, that we don't care. We don't care as much as they do, or that we don't deserve to be as shocked and horrified as every other soul in America mourning for the people of Littleton.

Don't come here. That's offensive. It's also absurd because we live here. There are thousands of NRA members in Denver, and tens upon tens of thousands in the state of Colorado.

NRA members labor in Denver's factories, they populate Denver's faculties, run Denver corporations, play on Colorado sports teams, work in media across the Front Range, parent and teach and coach Denver's children, attend Denver's churches and proudly represent Denver in uniform on the world's oceans and in the skies over Kosovo at this very moment.

NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surly among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.

Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.

So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy.

One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile towards us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So, let us be mindful. The eyes of the nation are upon us today.