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(Some Guy)   7 Myths about the Columbine Shooting. "Michael Moore is not a creepy opportunist" somehow missing   (thegospelcoalition.org) divider line 205
    More: Interesting, Columbine High School, street gangs, pipe bombs, Dylan Klebold  
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17701 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Oct 2012 at 10:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-09 10:44:13 AM  

PirateKing: fireclown: is the marytering story really a thing? I missed that somehow.

Yeah, there was a book released by Cassie Bernall's parents that made all sorts of claims that she was murdered *because* she said she believed in God. I worked at a bookstore at the time (of the book's release), and people ate that stuff up.

I actually heard people get all choked up and exclaim that she was 'so lucky' and 'blessed' to be 'called by God' that way.

I got a bit ticked off at that. Had to go and shelve books in the Science Fiction section until I calmed down.


I would have shot those f*ckers.
 
2012-10-09 10:44:17 AM  

karmaceutical: So how does the idea that Columbine was a failed bombing and not a planned shooting change anything exactly?


Believing that girl was shot for her faith doesn't change anything either. She's still dead. But understanding exactly what happened and the true motivations and plans will better help in identifying and preventing the next one.

Someone posted above that they got grilled because they fit the false profile of the killers. That matters. He got put through that because the faculty was given bad/false information. You can't learn from an incident like this or work to prevent another one if you are given lies, myths, and omissions as accurate information.
 
2012-10-09 10:45:56 AM  

Callous: You can't learn from an incident like this or work to prevent another one if you are given lies, myths, and omissions as accurate information.


This is America. Learning isn't allowed.
 
2012-10-09 10:46:44 AM  
The sheriff's department covered up the initial evidence that signaled the threat.

Our heroes.


// in before fark's blue shirt brigade and boot lickers defend these lying pigs that sat outside a school fixing their hair, while children died.
 
2012-10-09 10:46:55 AM  

Ant: Fart_Machine: GoldSpider: Fart_Machine: Number 6 Myth is bullshait.

Hence "myth"?

The blog is saying it's true. And myths aren't necessarily all bullshait.

No they're not:
Myth #6: Cassie Bernall was martyred for her faith in God.

Truth: According to the eyewitness under the table with her, Cassie was shot when Eric poked his shotgun under the table and said, "Peekaboo." The 911 tape verifies this testimony.

The martyr story arose from the testimony from another student in the library, Craig Scott (brother to victim, Rachel Scott), who recounted a conversation that took place across the room. Valeen Schnurr was the one who actually professed her faith in God, and this took place after she was shot. As she lay bleeding, she prayed, "Oh my God, don't let me die." Dylan turned around and asked her, "God? Do you believe in God?" Valeen said, "Yes, I believe in God." When the killer asked why, she replied, "Because it's how my parents raised me."

Where are they saying the Cassie Bernall story was true?


Well I stand corrected then. Bleary-eyed and wanting for coffee do not a good combination make.
 
2012-10-09 10:47:13 AM  

fireclown: is the marytering story really a thing? I missed that somehow.


Oh boy, was it a thing. I went to a Christian high school and was a Sophomore during Columbine. Our school used it as proof for MONTHS afterward how evil the world was, and how Christians were always persecuted, and how prayer in schools would have fixed all this etc. etc. I think the martyr book was required reading for freshmen the next year.
 
Ant
2012-10-09 10:47:34 AM  

JackieRabbit: Callous: JackieRabbit: Clicks link. sees http://thegospelcoalition.org. Laughs. Because I've never heard any of these "myths".

Praise Jeebus!

Where the hell were you when it happened? I heard all of those myths more than once and some of them many, many times. Or did you just dismiss it all as wrong because you saw "gospel" in the url?

Getting the facts of what really happened and not listening to what stupid, emotional people thought or felt about what happened. That's where I was. If you think that some Christian blog is going to be objective, you're deluding yourself. They have an agenda and that's all they serve. Truth is irrelevant. Reason is futile.


That book demolishes a shiatload of Christian Columbine myths. Maybe you should read it.
 
2012-10-09 10:47:36 AM  
What they should have done is spent several months placing dynamite around the school, then drove their car bomb into the school.

Thus achieving the high score.

Kids...always impatient...
 
2012-10-09 10:47:50 AM  

JackieRabbit: Getting the facts of what really happened and not listening to what stupid, emotional people thought or felt about what happened.


Which is, oddly enough, precisely what the book being reviewed aimed to do.
 
2012-10-09 10:48:04 AM  

cgraves67: I was in high school when that happened. The media portrayed those two guys as being outsiders and angry social misfits. That caused every outsider and angry social misfit in school at the time, like me, to be scrutinized. I had to spend quite a bit of time convincing teachers and counsellors that I wasn't a threat to anyone. If this article is true, and they weren't even like that, well that's all just bullshiat. Kids like me just wanted to be invisible and get through school without getting hassled or picked on. I didn't want to go on a shooting spree or blow anyone up.


THIS.

I remember teachers increasing screwtiny on anyone who wasn't in the 'incrowd'. One kid even got in-school detention for making his hand into a gun during lunch when talking about his hunting trip with his dad.
 
2012-10-09 10:48:08 AM  

Ant: JackieRabbit: Clicks link. sees http://thegospelcoalition.org. Laughs. Because I've never heard any of these "myths".

Praise Jeebus!

Surprisingly, this is not an example of a liars for Jesus link.


Yeah, it pretty much matches the Salon article linked above.
 
2012-10-09 10:48:41 AM  

give me doughnuts: Fart_Machine: Number 6 Myth is bullshait.

Do you think she wouldn't have gotten shot if she had answered "No"?


Actually the link I posted says she would have gotten shot either way.
 
2012-10-09 10:50:09 AM  

gunga galunga: Michael Moore is fat. He is very, very fat.

Your move, libs.


He always wears a hat, it's a fitted, fitted hat
 
2012-10-09 10:50:56 AM  

EyeballKid: [images.politico.com image 297x223]

Sure, subby. Whatever you say. Moore was the creepy opportunist in that situation...


You do know the real story behind the "cold dead hands" quote, don't you?

Trolling...or just stupid?
 
2012-10-09 10:51:27 AM  
FTA: "As she lay bleeding, she prayed, "Oh my God, don't let me die." Dylan turned around and asked her, "God? Do you believe in God?" Valeen said, "Yes, I believe in God." When the killer asked"

www.sable-pro.net

/ticket purchased online
 
Ant
2012-10-09 10:52:18 AM  

give me doughnuts: Fart_Machine: Number 6 Myth is bullshait.

Do you think she wouldn't have gotten shot if she had answered "No"?


The person (not Cassie Bernall) who was allegedly asked the question had already been shot.
 
2012-10-09 10:53:07 AM  

Callous: karmaceutical: So how does the idea that Columbine was a failed bombing and not a planned shooting change anything exactly?

Believing that girl was shot for her faith doesn't change anything either. She's still dead. But understanding exactly what happened and the true motivations and plans will better help in identifying and preventing the next one.

Someone posted above that they got grilled because they fit the false profile of the killers. That matters. He got put through that because the faculty was given bad/false information. You can't learn from an incident like this or work to prevent another one if you are given lies, myths, and omissions as accurate information.


All these kids killed in this tragedy, whatever it was, and your stuck on some other kid who got "grilled" by his faculty?
 
2012-10-09 10:54:10 AM  
The whole "they mapped out and planned the columbine shooting in doom" thing.

/If you go to a school designed like they're deathmatch levels you're pretty much asking for it
 
Ant
2012-10-09 10:57:24 AM  
One of the comments in the article: Myth #1 is patently false. While the killers were not complete social outcasts, they were indeed bullied and targets of attacks by athletes at the school. By every stretch they were absolutely "social misfits who were bullied by their classmates"

Also, they were indeed friends with many of the Trench Coat Mafia, who as a group had no responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold


I'm not so sure being bullied by jocks can be counted as being social outcasts. Jocks, as a group, were jerks to almost everyone.
 
2012-10-09 10:59:10 AM  
It is nice to see a christuan website debunking the whole "She Said Yes" bullshiat.

BTW, I will join the chorus singing the praises of Cullen's book. The real intersting bit for me was the fact that while Kliebold and Harris were being offered a special alternate punishment program bor a van break-in, they were also being investigated by the Sheriff's department for threats made against another student. Unfortunately, due to miscommunications, the DA's office knew nothing of the investigation, which would have torpedoed their eligibility for the alternative program.
 
2012-10-09 10:59:16 AM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: EyeballKid: [images.politico.com image 297x223]

Sure, subby. Whatever you say. Moore was the creepy opportunist in that situation...

You do know the real story behind the "cold dead hands" quote, don't you?

Trolling...or just stupid?


Oh, that's the part you think is so egregious!? Sorry, I thought the NRA holding a "gubmint's gon' try to git yer guns" rally in Colorado days after the Columbine massacre was a little exploitative, crass and inconsiderate. I guess I'm the oversensitive one for not realizing that child massacre is the perfect time to sell your product. Strike while the iron's hot and the bodies are still slightly warm, amirite?
 
2012-10-09 11:06:17 AM  

RET71: I didn't know about #1 until I read that article. Knowing they weren't bullied outcasts turns the way one looks at Columbine upside down.


I was a HS teacher in NJ when this happened. Directly afterwards, we were to report any "loners", "quiet types", and "misfits" to the guidance counselors. I also helped out the drama coach--those labels applied to pretty much everyone in the drama department. It was a stupid witchhunt and all of us teachers knew it. Not to sound prescient or like a know-it-all, but when the media started playing up that whole "social outcast" thing, we knew it smelled fishy--it smacked too much of the Satanic Panic of the 80s & early 90s. Plus, we knew our kids--just because you have a kid who keeps to himself and writes Goth poetry doesn't mean he's going to strafe the school on day.

A few years ago, I read more about Columbine and that Klebold & Harris weren't your typical loner powderkegs as the media portrayed them. I wasn't surprised.

CSB: A friend's 15-yo son had always wanted a trench coat. She bought him a nice London Fog coat for Christmas before Columbine. That kid wore that coat every day, even when he should have worn something warmer. He didn't think anything of wearing it to school on a rainy day in April, the day after Columbine. Even though he'd been wearing it for months, that day he got dragged to the principal's office, the COPS were called, and he got carted to the police station for questioning.

Just giving everyone a small indication of how stupid everyone got because of this.
 
2012-10-09 11:08:50 AM  

EyeballKid: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: EyeballKid: [images.politico.com image 297x223]

Sure, subby. Whatever you say. Moore was the creepy opportunist in that situation...

You do know the real story behind the "cold dead hands" quote, don't you?

Trolling...or just stupid?

Oh, that's the part you think is so egregious!? Sorry, I thought the NRA holding a "gubmint's gon' try to git yer guns" rally in Colorado days after the Columbine massacre was a little exploitative, crass and inconsiderate. I guess I'm the oversensitive one for not realizing that child massacre is the perfect time to sell your product. Strike while the iron's hot and the bodies are still slightly warm, amirite?


That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.
 
2012-10-09 11:08:50 AM  

Fart_Machine: GoldSpider: Fart_Machine: Number 6 Myth is bullshait.

Hence "myth"?

The blog is saying it's true. And myths aren't necessarily all bullshait.


Actually the blog says its not true. Reading comprehension FTW!
 
2012-10-09 11:10:05 AM  

mortimer_ford: I actually heard people get all choked up and exclaim that she was 'so lucky' and 'blessed' to be 'called by God' that way.


that's some crazy religion. I was raised Methodist, and we generally agree that the best way to be called to heaven is inexplicably in your sleep (owing to your fine health) at the age of 87 or so after a good meal and hanging out with your family. It doesn't need all that drama.

/Miss ya, Charles. That was the heart attack we'd all have wanted for you.
 
2012-10-09 11:11:59 AM  

karmaceutical: Callous: karmaceutical: So how does the idea that Columbine was a failed bombing and not a planned shooting change anything exactly?

Believing that girl was shot for her faith doesn't change anything either. She's still dead. But understanding exactly what happened and the true motivations and plans will better help in identifying and preventing the next one.

Someone posted above that they got grilled because they fit the false profile of the killers. That matters. He got put through that because the faculty was given bad/false information. You can't learn from an incident like this or work to prevent another one if you are given lies, myths, and omissions as accurate information.

All these kids killed in this tragedy, whatever it was, and your stuck on some other kid who got "grilled" by his faculty?


No, I'm stuck on preventing it from happening again. You can't learn from or prevent reoccurrence of anything when so much of the information you have about it is wrong. While they were grilling him and everyone else like him they were passing over the kids that actually fit the profile of the killers. Hopefully none of the tragedies that have occurred since occurred because the people charged with protecting those involved were looking at all the wrong kids because they had a totally inaccurate profile.
 
2012-10-09 11:12:41 AM  

Ant: One of the comments in the article: Myth #1 is patently false. While the killers were not complete social outcasts, they were indeed bullied and targets of attacks by athletes at the school. By every stretch they were absolutely "social misfits who were bullied by their classmates"

Also, they were indeed friends with many of the Trench Coat Mafia, who as a group had no responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold

I'm not so sure being bullied by jocks can be counted as being social outcasts. Jocks, as a group, were jerks to almost everyone.


One of the comments actually links to Wikipedia for their side of the story, compared to actually reading Columbine (by Dave Cullen), one of the most thoroughly researched books that I have ever read? Holy shiat people cannot get over their own delusions.

Columbine (the book) documents that Harris and Klebold (particularly Harris) WERE BULLIES. Their own writings go a long way to explain why they wanted to complete the attack (and "to get back at bullies" was not one of them). Harris was a prototypical sociopath.

The book specifically talks about the TCM. It is a thorough, intense book, that Cullen worked on for almost ten years. It's a great read that blows many of the Columbine myths out of the water (with actual evidence, not "feelings").
 
2012-10-09 11:13:18 AM  

super_grass: That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.


I'm sorry, what part aren't you able to believe? Was there not an NRA rally in Colorado days after the Columbine shooting? Was the NRA not doing one of its fundraisers under its effective, yet deceptive, theme of "the gubmint's tryin' to take yer guns?" Please, please, I beg you, set a fool such as I straight as to how the NRA handed out bandages to the survivors and held prayer vigils outside the school.
 
2012-10-09 11:14:31 AM  

Lanadapter: The whole "they mapped out and planned the columbine shooting in doom" thing.

/If you go to a school designed like they're deathmatch levels you're pretty much asking for it


That would be the best school ever. Give me a time machine and sign me up.
 
2012-10-09 11:15:05 AM  
How come the parents were never charged with anything?
I always kind of wondered how those two's parents were unaware of what they were planning. And I was just curious how the parents were never held accountable or if they were. Anyone know?
 
2012-10-09 11:18:09 AM  
karmaceutical: "All these kids killed in this tragedy, whatever it was, and your stuck on some other kid who got "grilled" by his faculty?"

Really? Everyone is justified in harassing and profiling kids who don't already fit in, based on lies and fabrications about a factually-unrelated event, because the victims of the unrelated event are dead? That's an airtight guide to the advancement of civilized society right there.

We might as well harass and profile kids who don't fit in for their inevitable support of international terrorism and attempts to blow up airplanes.
Because, ya know, those kids in Columbine are dead so what's a little extra bullying and a few TSA grope checks?
 
2012-10-09 11:18:14 AM  

Creoena: cgraves67: I was in high school when that happened. The media portrayed those two guys as being outsiders and angry social misfits. That caused every outsider and angry social misfit in school at the time, like me, to be scrutinized. I had to spend quite a bit of time convincing teachers and counsellors that I wasn't a threat to anyone. If this article is true, and they weren't even like that, well that's all just bullshiat. Kids like me just wanted to be invisible and get through school without getting hassled or picked on. I didn't want to go on a shooting spree or blow anyone up.

THIS.

I remember teachers increasing screwtiny on anyone who wasn't in the 'incrowd'. One kid even got in-school detention for making his hand into a gun during lunch when talking about his hunting trip with his dad.


One of my drama kids nearly got expelled for making a simple JOKE. Every Friday before a play, the backstage crew dresses in black for school. This makes sense--they need to be in black backstage & nobody wants to waste time to change after school to get ready for the play--they've got way too much to do. Columbine was late April & our play was the first weekend of May. During lunch that Friday, a bunch of the crew were sitting together and another student asked why they were all wearing black. One girl told him it was because of "covert operations later". Asshole kid ran to the principal's office, said she sounded threatening, and the poor girl got yanked out of her next class by cops. She was instantly suspended and, in the weeks following, went through a series of interviews, psych evaluations, and police interrogations.

Administrators were ridiculous before Columbine but went to a whole other level afterwards. The biggest shame of it all is that they STILL haven't come back down to pre-Columbine levels.
 
2012-10-09 11:18:50 AM  

Moopy Mac: Ant: One of the comments in the article: Myth #1 is patently false. While the killers were not complete social outcasts, they were indeed bullied and targets of attacks by athletes at the school. By every stretch they were absolutely "social misfits who were bullied by their classmates"

Also, they were indeed friends with many of the Trench Coat Mafia, who as a group had no responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold

I'm not so sure being bullied by jocks can be counted as being social outcasts. Jocks, as a group, were jerks to almost everyone.

One of the comments actually links to Wikipedia for their side of the story, compared to actually reading Columbine (by Dave Cullen), one of the most thoroughly researched books that I have ever read? Holy shiat people cannot get over their own delusions.

Columbine (the book) documents that Harris and Klebold (particularly Harris) WERE BULLIES. Their own writings go a long way to explain why they wanted to complete the attack (and "to get back at bullies" was not one of them). Harris was a prototypical sociopath.

The book specifically talks about the TCM. It is a thorough, intense book, that Cullen worked on for almost ten years. It's a great read that blows many of the Columbine myths out of the water (with actual evidence, not "feelings").


To clarify, Harris' journal did make mention of being made fun of, but this was not collaborated by his friends and this seemed to be a figment of his sociopathic tendencies. He was a heartless, cruel, evil bastard and deserves no sympathy other than for his mental illness.
 
2012-10-09 11:19:32 AM  

EyeballKid: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: EyeballKid: [images.politico.com image 297x223]

Sure, subby. Whatever you say. Moore was the creepy opportunist in that situation...

You do know the real story behind the "cold dead hands" quote, don't you?

Trolling...or just stupid?

Oh, that's the part you think is so egregious!? Sorry, I thought the NRA holding a "gubmint's gon' try to git yer guns" rally in Colorado days after the Columbine massacre was a little exploitative, crass and inconsiderate. I guess I'm the oversensitive one for not realizing that child massacre is the perfect time to sell your product. Strike while the iron's hot and the bodies are still slightly warm, amirite?


"Denver Mayor Wellington Webb had asked the NRA to cancel its convention, even offering to reimburse the group for any losses. NRA officials declined, saying they are required to hold an annual members' meeting by the New York state law under which the group is organized.

In addition to canceling a weapons exhibition and scaling back the convention from three days to one, the NRA scrapped a planned reception for U.S. Rep. J.C. Watts of Oklahoma, the fourth-ranking Republican in the House and a sometime spokesman for the NRA. Saturday's session will feature just two scheduled speakers, Heston and NRA executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre."

Link
 
2012-10-09 11:19:44 AM  

I am Wee Todd Ed: I always kind of wondered how those two's parents were unaware of what they were planning. And I was just curious how the parents were never held accountable or if they were. Anyone know?


I don't see that as much of a stretch. I won't say my parents missed everything, but they missed a bunch of stuff. A sneaky kid can get away with plenty if he or she can keep quiet.
 
2012-10-09 11:20:26 AM  
I watched the Michael Moore video about Columbine some months ago (via YouTube) mainly to take a sounding of the guy. I'd heard of him for years, but never read or saw any of his stuff.

I was left as mystified as I was to begin with. Something in his smarmy bearing gave me a strong intuition that he was suggesting stuff that he didn't believe. He didn't strike me as stupid; he seemed like a smart man (though not as smart as he thinks he is) trying to dupe stupid people. I wondered (and still do) what the film was supposed to be. It fails as a documentary as its presentation of facts wouldn't pass muster with any educated person, even one who shares some of Moore's views, as I do. The film has some funny moments, but not enough to pass as comedy, and I was in some doubt that I was supposed to be laughing at any of it. Gonzo journalism would need a more charismatic journalist, somebody you want to see in the action, though perhaps there are people who admire him enough to want to see his exploits. He rather repelled me though. He came across snotty, boyish and vain, like Andy Rooney reincarnated as Paris Hilton's ugly kid brother.

My best guess is that he is aiming -- and failing -- at being something like a Left-aligned counterpart of Rush Limbaugh or P. J. O'Roarke, a shyster who can sling around his political theories and opinions with reckless abandon and be admired for his insight by his sympathizers, but who is always prepared to throw up his hands and say, "Only joking!" if he's called on any of it.
 
2012-10-09 11:21:56 AM  

EyeballKid: super_grass: That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.

I'm sorry, what part aren't you able to believe? Was there not an NRA rally in Colorado days after the Columbine shooting? Was the NRA not doing one of its fundraisers under its effective, yet deceptive, theme of "the gubmint's tryin' to take yer guns?" Please, please, I beg you, set a fool such as I straight as to how the NRA handed out bandages to the survivors and held prayer vigils outside the school.


"In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.

All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.

Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting."

Link
 
2012-10-09 11:24:32 AM  

cbecker333: "Denver Mayor Wellington Webb had asked the NRA to cancel its convention, even offering to reimburse the group for any losses. NRA officials declined, saying they are required to hold an annual members' meeting by the New York state law under which the group is organized.

In addition to canceling a weapons exhibition and scaling back the convention from three days to one, the NRA scrapped a planned reception for U.S. Rep. J.C. Watts of Oklahoma, the fourth-ranking Republican in the House and a sometime spokesman for the NRA. Saturday's session will feature just two scheduled speakers, Heston and NRA executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre."


And, from that, we find:

"Columbine is obviously an enormously beneficial short-term tactical advantage to the gun-ban groups," said David Kopel of the Independence Institute, a conservative think tank in Colorado.

"But the brevity of that advantage is underscored by the fact that President Clinton politicized this tragedy even while funerals are still going on," he added. "The fact that he couldn't wait a week until the children were buried indicates what a very small window of opportunity this is."


Yes, inconsiderateness be damned, we've got a narrative to push, and it's not us, it's the other guy!!! Scum of the farking earth, every gun oil salesman involved with the NRA.

Oh, and Watts not speaking? Wow, how bold, to slither away from your campaign donors when it's politically inconvenient to show who breads your butter.
 
2012-10-09 11:24:36 AM  

ShannonKW: "Only joking!" if he's called on any of it.


That's why I don't like Jon Stewart devotion on Fark. But sometimes I feel like i'm the only one. However, Moore really is a piece of crap and I don't want to compare anyone to his level. I mean, JStew is at least entertaining and informative.
 
2012-10-09 11:25:10 AM  

Netrngr: Fart_Machine: GoldSpider: Fart_Machine: Number 6 Myth is bullshait.

Hence "myth"?

The blog is saying it's true. And myths aren't necessarily all bullshait.

Actually the blog says its not true. Reading comprehension FTW!


Fart_Machine: Well I stand corrected then. Bleary-eyed and wanting for coffee do not a good combination make.


Reading comprehension FTW indeed. Scroll up next time Sparky.
 
2012-10-09 11:26:29 AM  

EyeballKid: [images.politico.com image 297x223]

Sure, subby. Whatever you say. Moore was the creepy opportunist in that situation...


So you're suggesting that the NRA benefited from an opportunity in the situation?
 
2012-10-09 11:26:29 AM  

I am Wee Todd Ed: How come the parents were never charged with anything?
I always kind of wondered how those two's parents were unaware of what they were planning. And I was just curious how the parents were never held accountable or if they were. Anyone know?


No matter how hands on or open of communication you have with your kids, you cannot possibly watch them every second of the day. Parents do not even know 1/10th of what goes on in their child's life or mind. Many parents also might have an inkling, but opt to live in ignorance because they want to believe their child is better than they actually are. Then, you have the neglecting parents that really don't care enough to ask or be concerned at all.
 
2012-10-09 11:28:56 AM  

fireclown: mortimer_ford: I actually heard people get all choked up and exclaim that she was 'so lucky' and 'blessed' to be 'called by God' that way.

that's some crazy religion. I was raised Methodist, and we generally agree that the best way to be called to heaven is inexplicably in your sleep (owing to your fine health) at the age of 87 or so after a good meal and hanging out with your family. It doesn't need all that drama.

/Miss ya, Charles. That was the heart attack we'd all have wanted for you.


Miss-attributed quote. Your control+x skills need sharpening.
 
2012-10-09 11:31:14 AM  

Creoena: cgraves67: I was in high school when that happened. The media portrayed those two guys as being outsiders and angry social misfits. That caused every outsider and angry social misfit in school at the time, like me, to be scrutinized. I had to spend quite a bit of time convincing teachers and counsellors that I wasn't a threat to anyone. If this article is true, and they weren't even like that, well that's all just bullshiat. Kids like me just wanted to be invisible and get through school without getting hassled or picked on. I didn't want to go on a shooting spree or blow anyone up.

THIS.

I remember teachers increasing screwtiny on anyone who wasn't in the 'incrowd'. One kid even got in-school detention for making his hand into a gun during lunch when talking about his hunting trip with his dad.


Yep, let's see...

Suspended for wearing a pewter pendant featuring a 1" "dagger". This one actually confused me at first, because it actually featured a topless female figure embossed on the hilt with the entire pendant- figurine, dagger and all, being 1" in height. When the "discipline" administrator asked me what I was wearing, I initially thought that was what he was referring to, but was corrected when he kept repeating the question, "What is it in the shape of." I realized he wanted me to say "knife" or "dagger" or somesuch, but I refused, and referred to it only as a "necklace" because that is what it was. When he finally relented and flat out stated that I was wearing a weapon, I pointed out that the sharpened pencil or stainless steel pen on his desk was far more of a threat and wasn't hindered by the fact of it being made out of a soft, blunted metal tethered to a chain around my neck. Apparently logic and reasoning isn't something that the schoolhouse authoritarians like to be faced with, and that was the start of my first suspension.

The second came that winter when I started wearing my trenchcoat to class, a coat that I had purchased before Columbine and any of the "trenchcoat mofia" bullshiat had ever happened. Even though I actually received complements from several teachers on it (Including my morning pre-cal teacher. Cool guy, made matlab draw a pot leaf once.) the same school authoritarian "disciplinarian" ordered me to remove it because "I knew why". When I told him that I did not know why and asked if he could please explain it, I only received the same response. When I said then that I suspected I might know why but then did not know why some of the other students were still being allowed to wear camouflage jackets after what happened in Jonesboro, Arkansas I was told again to report to the suspension office.

/I didn't like school much after that
 
2012-10-09 11:34:33 AM  
I can't be bothered searching for it, but there is (or was) a forum on the imdb message boards that consists of fangirls of the Columbine killers. I read through it about a year ago, and it was filled with notes of sympathy for poor, bullied Eric and Dylan. I don't think they'll like this book.

The most regular commentor there was a middle-aged woman who loved those murderous assholes more than any 12yo girl could ever dream of loving Justin Bieber. I particularly remember her gushing over an artwork of those two "sensitive souls" walking through the school doors, bristling with firearms and looking moody.

I've also come across fansites created by idiots that adore the women who killed for Charles Manson.

People are farking strange.
 
2012-10-09 11:36:11 AM  

hiat_that_shiat: Dave Cullen's "Columbine" systematically debunked pretty much everything I thought I knew about Columbine. The media storyline was the bullied turning on those who had done the bullying, but it was actually a school bombing gone wrong (Eric and Dylan went in with guns after the bombs failed to go off), with a healthy dose of sociopath.

Seriously, it's a fantastic read if you get the chance.


The more people you get together in one location (cities), the more psychological outliers you're going to get. It's just common sense really, take 4 random folks, and chances are they're decent, if not good to great. Take 400,000, and you're going to get some oddities there.
 
2012-10-09 11:37:21 AM  

Gunslinger013: EyeballKid: [images.politico.com image 297x223]

Sure, subby. Whatever you say. Moore was the creepy opportunist in that situation...

So you're suggesting that the NRA benefited from an opportunity in the situation?


Actually they went into full damage control, lobbying, and fund raising mode.
 
2012-10-09 11:37:53 AM  
Wait, back up on #7 again... how'd all the sprinklers in the cafe go off?
 
2012-10-09 11:43:39 AM  

EyeballKid: cbecker333: "Denver Mayor Wellington Webb had asked the NRA to cancel its convention, even offering to reimburse the group for any losses. NRA officials declined, saying they are required to hold an annual members' meeting by the New York state law under which the group is organized.

In addition to canceling a weapons exhibition and scaling back the convention from three days to one, the NRA scrapped a planned reception for U.S. Rep. J.C. Watts of Oklahoma, the fourth-ranking Republican in the House and a sometime spokesman for the NRA. Saturday's session will feature just two scheduled speakers, Heston and NRA executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre."

And, from that, we find:

"Columbine is obviously an enormously beneficial short-term tactical advantage to the gun-ban groups," said David Kopel of the Independence Institute, a conservative think tank in Colorado.

"But the brevity of that advantage is underscored by the fact that President Clinton politicized this tragedy even while funerals are still going on," he added. "The fact that he couldn't wait a week until the children were buried indicates what a very small window of opportunity this is."

Yes, inconsiderateness be damned, we've got a narrative to push, and it's not us, it's the other guy!!! Scum of the farking earth, every gun oil salesman involved with the NRA.

Oh, and Watts not speaking? Wow, how bold, to slither away from your campaign donors when it's politically inconvenient to show who breads your butter.


So the NRA scales back its meeting to the minimum required by state law and they are inconsiderate? Would it also be considered inconsiderate to call "every gun oil salesman involved with the NRA...Scum of the farking earth"?

Politicians being slimy - shocking.
 
2012-10-09 11:43:53 AM  

cbecker333: EyeballKid: super_grass: That Michael Moore narrative has been debunked so many times it's not even worth it for him to spend the effort to prove it wrong yet again.

I'm sorry, what part aren't you able to believe? Was there not an NRA rally in Colorado days after the Columbine shooting? Was the NRA not doing one of its fundraisers under its effective, yet deceptive, theme of "the gubmint's tryin' to take yer guns?" Please, please, I beg you, set a fool such as I straight as to how the NRA handed out bandages to the survivors and held prayer vigils outside the school.

"In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.

All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.

Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting."

Link


Yes, the NRA would have been instantly disbanded for lack of holding a meeting. The NRA would have ceased to exist.
 
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