stink factor: HotWingConspiracy: It's like any other business, people are just getting bored with the product.A slick marketing campaign might help. Offer some new incentives, maybe roll back restrictions.Instead of Jesus always being depicted in the same old boring ways (in a desert surrounded by kids or people eating fish and bread, hanging from a cross, eating food with some apostles at a fancy, boring dinner) why not show him in new and exciting ways? Riding in a standing position on the backs of dolphins, using his robe as a sail on his cross to go skydiving, chugging mountain dew atop mount everest and surrounded by ninjas with guitars. I just think Jesus could be much better marketed.
HotWingConspiracy: It's like any other business, people are just getting bored with the product.A slick marketing campaign might help. Offer some new incentives, maybe roll back restrictions.
rolladuck: But it's been a strange few weeks. Seems that for some people, Christian compassion ends at the church door, and faith is thicker than blood. I might be invited back home eventually.
Buttknuckle: I have come to realize something in the past couple years...Atheists who look down upon others for their religious beliefs are arrogant. You cannot win an argument with an Atheist, because it is about logic. Religion is about BELIEF. There is so much we don't know out there and to assume that we as humans are "it" is arrogant as hell, IMHO. But it really bothers me when Atheists look down on those who get happiness and serenity in their lives with religion. Of course, this is contingent on the fact that they are not religious nutjobs trying to convert everyone in their path.
DontMakeMeComeBackThere: The Wizard of Frobozz: ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION!!!In the name of Darwin, Hitchens, & the Holy Dawkins...Amen.If you go on and on about it like, say Bill Maher does, then yes, it is a religion.
FormlessOne: Why bother?
Bhruic: Khanmots: If you're a gnostic (atheist or theist) I'll debate you and win (well so long as you actually debate and have been exposed to formal logic...).Well, no, you won't, necessarily. Unless you predefine your argument as requiring logical proof. If I roll a die, and I see the result and you don't, I can easily win an argument about the result of that roll, simply because I have first-hand knowledge and you don't. Any argument from you that it's impossible to know the result of the die roll would be silly.The same could easily be claimed (and is claimed) by some religious people. They firmly believe that they've had first-hand encounters with God. Personally, I don't believe them, and perhaps you wouldn't either, but if they truly did, then they can accurately claim to be gnostic theists. And no logic from you could disprove that.I think what you are claiming is that no gnostic can prove to anyone else that they are correct, which I would agree with.
tgambitg: If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck.
mbillips: What have religions ever done for us
IAMTHEINTARWEBS: Atheism is a belief system and therefore a religion.
FormlessOne: I wonder what CNN thinks about ignosticism...
Khanmots: On a side note you might want to read up on Godel's incompleteness theorems.
rolladuck: busy chillin': Because there never was no God.failquit reading right thereIt's poetic license. These are song lyrics, not an english term paper.And it's Frank Turner, who in addition to being farking awesome, was, along with my gay friends, my inspiration to come out as an atheist to my parents recently.But it's been a strange few weeks. Seems that for some people, Christian compassion ends at the church door, and faith is thicker than blood. I might be invited back home eventually.
vactech: Sticky Hands: I've been on sites that have a much more substantial Muslim presence, and they are anything BUT "Don't believe in God? Good, more heaven for me!"Do they pull some pseudo philosophy? Strawman arguments? Endless debates of circular logic? If so, post the site. I bet there are lots of farkers in here who would like to mix it up a little and get some fresh theist blood to flame war with. But you're probably not talking about that sort of posting are you?
kgf: Since all religions have a god
vactech: IAMTHEINTARWEBS: Atheism is a belief system and therefore a religion.Believing the sun will rise tomorrow is a belief system, but not a religion.
Ishkur: I love hearing people's explanations.
IAMTHEINTARWEBS: athesim is a belief system. you cannot, at the current time, disprove the existence of gods
Khanmots: So I should perhaps revise to say that gnostic atheism is logically untenable
Ishkur: FormlessOne: Why bother?Because of all the Apologetics arguments I've heard, TAG is absolutely glorious in its rock-solid certainty. It's almost pure, raw, theoretical poetry how it is wrong for the same reasons it thinks it is right. And the whole purpose of TAG is not to actually prove anything, but to win arguments. It's like a loophole or technicality that lawyers often bring up in courtrooms, using the preferred wording of a phrase or clause to assert something that it wasn't intending.We all know it's wrong. But how it's wrong is what's so fascinating about it. I love hearing people's explanations.
FormlessOne: IAMTHEINTARWEBS: athesim is a belief system. you cannot, at the current time, disprove the existence of godsAnd that explanation is why I'm ignostic.Theists say "gods exist." Atheists say "gods don't exist." Agnostics say "gods may or may not exist." Ignostics ask "what's a god?" We're not equipped to even define the thing about which theists, atheists, and agnostics argue, never mind prove or disprove the existence of that thing. It's been a pointless argument for millenia.Anyone claiming to be a theist, atheist, or agnostic, really isn't sure about what they're talking. The more extreme the position they take on the subject, the less likely I am to provide any real respect to them, because they're willing to argue, fight, even kill, over something they can't even understand, never mind prove.
FormlessOne: Theists say "gods exist." Atheists say "gods don't exist." Agnostics say "gods may or may not exist." Ignostics ask "what's a god?" We're not equipped to even define the thing about which theists, atheists, and agnostics argue, never mind prove or disprove the existence of that thing. It's been a pointless argument for millenia.
Ishkur: Khanmots: On a side note you might want to read up on Godel's incompleteness theorems.Yes, because none of us have read very widely in this subject except you.Your condescension is showing.
jonawald: Religion = people who believe in something they can't see, can't prove.Atheists = people who believe that the everything we know came from nothing in some kind of big bang. That this something that came from nothing somehow changed and "evolved" into a single cellular living being that had a system for respiring, digesting, eliminating waste and reproducing? Wow. That alone is a lot of faith. It goes on though. they believe that somehow this something that came from nothing and got life and systems evolved into a multicelular being that had all the above functions. It goes on from there, but it gets to crazy to put down in writing.People laugh at religions people who believe in a God, and Creator. Think about how funny these people are. They certainly have a weird religion.
letrole: "At least Yoko's not here. Not yet".-- John Lennon, contemplating ways it could be worse whilst burning in Hell
I read fark for the pics: We don't label groups of people who don't believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny, so why do we label people who don't believe in their own flavour of fictional character?
FormlessOne: TAG is a logical argument that attempts to dance around the 600-pound assumption in the room, hoping that folks will either miss it entirely or buy into it unthinkingly. It's why the Church bailed on it long ago, but so many folks cling to it - it's semantic tomfoolery at its finest.
Bhruic: athesim is a belief system. you cannot, at the current time, disprove the existence of godsif you hold that there is no god then that is an unprovable belief.snipAtheism is defined by beliefSo what you are saying is that not believing in anything that you can't actually prove to not exist is a belief system?
FormlessOne: it's semantic tomfoolery at its finest.
Khanmots: But if you want condescending, here's a question... does "All cows are the same color" ring any bells? I'm guessing that you've never been presented an argument with even somewhat subtly faulty logic that reaches a demonstrably erroneous conclusion and asked to pick it apart.
Khanmots: Or perhaps I should ask if you know the difference between logic and philosophy?
Khanmots: Or... I could assume that you're not completely stupid and intellectually lazy and with a little prodding I could get you thinking for yourself.
vactech: On a related note, I feel Christians engage atheists more due to the unique nature of their paradoxical God who is both anthropomorphic and highly conceptual.
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