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(Salon)   Two can play at that game: Why, I, a lifelong Republican, am voting for Obama   (salon.com) divider line 58
    More: Interesting, President Obama, Republican, Larry Pressler, congresses, Chuck Hagel, Salon  
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4215 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Oct 2012 at 12:26 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-10-08 11:29:38 PM  
10 votes:
As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that's the choice you are faced with. If Snowe had run, and made it through the Primaries, I'd probably still be Republican, because I worked her campaign in college, and truly believe her to be a good choice. Good for the state of Maine, and good for the nation. But that wasn't in the cards, and more's the pity, because Snowe would have given this country what it needs: a strong Republican voice that is tempered with solid experience and solid leadership qualities, not just the glad handing and cheerleading that folks seem to want...
2012-10-08 09:21:02 PM  
6 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.


Well since Romney''s going to slash veteran's benefits and plans to get us into at least one more war in the Mid East, I think if veterans still support him it says more about veterans.
2012-10-08 10:11:42 PM  
5 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: DrowningLessons: this poll is not from a place I trust

Why don't you trust a poll from Military Times?


*shrug* It doesn't come up often in conversation, most people I know (including military peeps) don't really read it, it's not a place known for its polling, nor does it have its metrics or polling data explained, it only has a #39,140 Alexa ranking, etc. I see no reason to trust it at all, other than it says what you want.
2012-10-09 02:41:48 AM  
4 votes:

Captain Dan: whidbey: I have a huge problem with someone who doesn't even support Obama telling us liberals how he supposedly "really" acts politically. Nothing quite screams "concerned."

You have a problem with someone politically disagreeing with you? That's a bigger problem than I can solve.


Not even mad. Just pointing out that you obviously can't stand the fact that the Obama administration will receive credit for supporting gay marriage that you have to concoct some series of events that somehow proves otherwise.

Petty, transparent bullsh*t.

I'm voting for Romney because I think he's better suited for the job,

Well, he isn't. He's whatever the Republican party stuffs into his mouth, he doesn't care a rip about the poor, and he wants to waste a bunch of money teaching Iran a lesson in American hegimony.

You're voting for the continued downfall of this country both economically and morally. Honestly, I wouldn't even be bragging.
2012-10-09 01:10:01 AM  
4 votes:

Captain Dan: Off-topic, somewhat:

What's with Democrats all claiming that Obama is suddenly a moderate Republican? Is this a mere election-season pivot to the center, or do people actually believe that?

From my point of view, Obama is no moderate. He's a liberal Democrat with liberal policy preferences, who has been forced into centrist governance by circumstances (lack of a veto-proof liberal majority) rather than by any desire for moderation. Dennis Kucinich wouldn't be able to govern much further to the left, except perhaps on civil liberties.


Your point of view is incorrect. And many of us here have not "suddenly" started claiming Obama is right of center- we've been saying it all along. He's definitely no liberal on almost any stance he takes. Your definition of "liberal" has been handed to you by arch conservatives. And it's incorrect.
2012-10-09 12:50:57 AM  
4 votes:

EnviroDude: I_C_Weener: Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.

He voted for Obama to prove he wasn't stupid. Now, he is going to prove that he is stupid by voting for Obama again.

/lol


Would you vote for George W. Bush over Obama? Because Romney is advocating the exact same positions, right down to "Bullshiat invasion of a Middle Eastern country". And it'll already take decades just to clean up after that retarded pseudo-cowboy.
2012-10-09 12:37:38 AM  
4 votes:

Mugato: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

Well since Romney''s going to slash veteran's benefits and plans to get us into at least one more war in the Mid East, I think if veterans still support him it says more about veterans.


I'm beginning to think some military members think Romney is the way they can move up in pay grade.

If they live through it.

/I have no idea why anyone would vote against the man who ended the multiple 15 month combat tours with no time off between
2012-10-08 09:17:35 PM  
4 votes:
I personally support Obama because he's the best Republican to run in decades.
2012-10-09 04:52:19 AM  
3 votes:

Captain Dan: anwserman: To escape the draft because you're fortunate enough to leave the country and leave your peers behind? Bullshiat. There were millions of men who were drafted into the war, and many of them who died probably would be a lot better candidates than Mittens. Why must his wealth make him so special?

I would do the same thing if I were him, and so would any person who felt that the war was unjust. Everyone knows someone who went to jail or fled the country rather than fight in the Vietnam War. Civil disobedience - following one's conscience instead of one's orders - is one of the great demonstrations of moral conviction.


Mittens didn't believe the war was unjust.

i.dailymail.co.uk

A version of the story explaining the above photo, courtesy of the daily fail:

Preppy protester: The moment a 19-year-old Mitt Romney demonstrated in favour of Vietnam War draft
- Teenage Romney takes unpopular stance in favour of south-east Asian war
- But his status as 'Mormon missionary' exempted him from the draft
- Future GOP presidential candidate dressed in smart, preppy clothes
- Romney's father George was the Governor of Michigan at the time

"A newly-unearthed photograph showing Mitt Romney demonstrating in favour of the Vietnam War draft might leave the presidential candidate feeling somewhat embarrassed. The veteran Republican, then 19, can be seen picketing an anti-war sit-in at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, in 1966.... A newspaper clipping headlined 'Governor's son pickets the pickets' states: 'Mitt Romney, son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, was one of the pickets who supported the Stanford University administration in opposition to sit-in demonstrators.' ... Carey Coulter was one of the demonstrators alongside Mr Romney that day. He told BuzzFeed.com: 'We were there to get an education and these people holding the administration hostage was antithetical to that. 'Mitt walked up to me and said that he had some experience with the press, and that he would handle the press for me if I wanted him to. I said fine, because I was busy running the demonstration.


i.dailymail.co.uk

... His pro-war son, meanwhile, never served in south-east Asia because his status as a Mormon missionary exempted him from the draft. The GOP hopeful spent just one year at Stanford before heading to France for 30 months of missionary work. He had already met his future wife Ann in 1965 when he was 18 and she was 15. The couple married in 1969 and have five sons and 16 grandchildren...."

Again, an ex-Mormon over at Free Republic wrote how white Mormons were able to get the deferments, but black Mormons were barred and sent off the war because the Mormon Church never approved black Mormon men's applications for missionary exemptions.
2012-10-09 04:46:13 AM  
3 votes:

Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.


Your assumption is wrong.

4.bp.blogspot.com

Mitt is nothing like his father.
2012-10-09 02:08:31 AM  
3 votes:
The fact is, the Democrats have become the defacto centrist party now, and actually do have policies that conservatives can agree on.

At this point, it's up to us to start a new party that's politically to the left of the Democrats.

Obvious tag drinks all night.
2012-10-09 01:54:58 AM  
3 votes:

God-is-a-Taco: If Obama leans to the left, he has a funny way of showing it.
The closest thing was the reluctant "okay maybe gays are people" announcement after Biden didn't hit any mines.


That's basically it. If there is any way in which Obama is even in the center, let alone actually left-leaning in any way, it's domestic social policies. His economic policies? Solidly conservative capitalist. Foreign policy? Conservative hawk.

The Republicans have successfully pushed the Overton window so far right that the Dems can just repackage the Republican platform from two presidential terms ago, put some social issue paint on it and sell it as "liberal". And liberals eat it up, because the fact of the matter is that most people in this country liberal or conservative, think things are basically fine.
2012-10-09 01:03:13 AM  
3 votes:

taxandspend: My roommate's a veteran, wouldn't vote for Romney is his life depended on it.

I'm voting for Obama because in four years, we'll have better candidates from both parties to choose from.


This ^.

These modern Republicans have absolutely no business being in power. Their ideas have been repeatedly proven not to work; trickle-down is a scam designed to crush the middle class and funnel their money into the pockets of the wealthy, their social policies are barbaric, and their foreign policy is insane.

The GOP has been rotting since Reagan. And now that the crazies aretaking over, they're dragging the GOP's corruption into the spotlight. As a political party, the GOP needs to collapse so a sane party can take its place.
2012-10-09 12:53:11 AM  
3 votes:

heidinoele: Soymilk: Mrtraveler01: Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.

No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?

Well he did vote for Obama last time and he despised W. So, I guess not much of a Republican really...

No. He just recognized stupid when he saw it and voted for the right guy for a change.


My Asian immigrant naturalized citizen mother who is socially somewhat conservative (deport the illegals, no to gay marriage, but yes to abortion - go figure) is voting for Obama because in her elderly Asian lady way of putting it: "Romney seems like a rich smug bastard who doesn't care about anyone else."

And in regards to Romney's war stance: "Of course he's pro-war. It's easy to be pro-war when you can send other people's sons to die."
2012-10-08 09:19:03 PM  
3 votes:
I'm afraid the extreme wing will say that we weren't conservative enough.

You mean they're going to get even crazier?  I'm sorta terrified to wonder what that would consist of.
2012-10-09 10:04:13 AM  
2 votes:

Lunaville: Towermonkey: existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.

Myself, although I live in Louisiana and it's a pretty solid red state except for Orleans Parish and maybe a district in the Lafayette area, on occasion. It's weird with veterans sometimes, my grandfather was a naval officer in WWII, and he votes Democrat a lot, but my dad, who was a petty officer, is pretty hardcore Republican. A good friend that I have known since high school and is about to retire from active duty Army, Republican.

/ 19 Kilo, why walk into battle when you can ride
// both parties treat vets pretty shamefully

Both parties treat active duty personnel pretty shamefully. If this nation had real respect for our people in the military, war/military engagements would be almost unheard of. They should be well trained and rarely, if ever, used.


No argument from me. My little brother is still not quite right after a couple tours in Iraq and I suspect he may never be.
2012-10-09 05:37:53 AM  
2 votes:

fusillade762: I'm afraid the extreme wing will say that we weren't conservative enough.

You mean they're going to get even crazier?  I'm sorta terrified to wonder what that would consist of.


I'm more terrified of the democrats trying to meet these republicans halfway toward their new goalpost.
2012-10-09 03:50:58 AM  
2 votes:
Oooh, I hope I can use this as a way to share my CSB for today.

I got a FW: email from my parents (sent to everyone in their address book) talking about how Jane Fonda is evil and anti-American for protesting the Vietnam war and shiat, and that she has no right to represent Nancy Reagan in her new movie. I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France - that technically Fonda spent more time in a war zone than he ever did - and that to please research facts before sending me dumb emails.

I get a scathing response back for insulting the people that they [my parents] knew who died in Vietnam, and that Fonda only encouraged the death of more US Troops. I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him. Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic - that even if he didn't want to fight the war and if leaving the country was his 'form of expression against it' - it was a big FU to those who weren't fortunate enough to have wealthy parents and still had to serve. To this extent, him vying for control of the US military and with the GOP all too trigger-happy to start another war, is the same as Fonda, putting the lives of troops at stake, the lives of troops that he feels are beneath him and his wealth.

/haven't gotten a reply back yet.
2012-10-09 01:30:48 AM  
2 votes:

Captain Dan: Off-topic, somewhat:

What's with Democrats all claiming that Obama is suddenly a moderate Republican? Is this a mere election-season pivot to the center, or do people actually believe that?

From my point of view, Obama is no moderate. He's a liberal Democrat with liberal policy preferences, who has been forced into centrist governance by circumstances (lack of a veto-proof liberal majority) rather than by any desire for moderation. Dennis Kucinich wouldn't be able to govern much further to the left, except perhaps on civil liberties.


Maybe you should answer the question on how you think Obama is a liberal?

You apparently have no clue what liberalism is.

- Healthcare: took the plan conservatives in the 90s had touted. Cut Medicare costs while preserving benefits.
- Foreign policy: got out of only one war so far, killed Bin Laden in Pakistan, got involved in Libyan uprising.
- Tax policy: kept taxes low his entire term, even lowered payroll taxes. Wants to let Bush's ridiculous policies expire in favor of Clinton-era (a centrist) taxes. Lowered taxes to small businesses on several occasions.
- Energy: favors energy independence, has been in favor of oil drilling, coal, and natural gas as part of energy policy. Also favors clean energy because he believes it's a good investment for a number of reasons.
- Jobs policies: has been more favorable toward private sector jobs than public sector jobs.

Contrary to popular rhetoric, there has been no government takeover of healthcare. It's still an insurance market, with better overall outcomes.

Face it, Obama's policies have favored the private sector and businesses in most ways. Those are centrist policies. And the Democratic party, along with the rest of the country, is continuing to shift right on policy. In many ways it has been forced to do so fiscally by the exploding debt and deficits which were mostly the result of GOP leaders and their overspending and undertaxing.

The fact that the economy has been sluggish is 90% the fault of Bush and the European debt crisis. The housing bubble was a total disaster, one that Obama had no part in other than cleanup. The other 10% is the fault of GOP leadership, who have no interest in giving Obama a win on economics - they ate it hard in 1996 when Clinton's robust economy left them in the dust.
2012-10-09 12:58:43 AM  
2 votes:

deadcrickets: Wait till Pressler finds out that Obama's policy is fairly much the same as Bush's.


Well, except for tax policy (advocates raising taxes, repeatedly blocked by Republicans), defense policy (Drone strikes and targeted raids instead of invasions, issued an executive order to close Guantanamo but was, again, blocked by Republicans), foreign policy (isn't a complete hand puppet for Israel, isn't a complete dick to everyone, hasn't massaged any heads of state against their will), economic policy in general (Brought us out of the Great Republican Recession, backed numerous jobs bills that, again, the Republicans blocked), social issues...

Yeah, he's not as liberal as I'd like, but he's much better than Bush. If you don't see that, you have blinders the size of Romney's ego.
2012-10-09 12:39:10 AM  
2 votes:
My dad, three of my uncles, two of my brothers, and an aunt are all veterans. They will be voting for President Obama. The relatives that are voting for Romney are the "I'll send my sons to Canada if there is a draft" sort of people. I love them, but they are batshiat crazy teabaggers.
2012-10-08 10:31:01 PM  
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: every military person and veteran I know are voting Romney.


Well if that's true, what does it say about the military people and veterans that you know that they're voting for someone who will cut their benefits and send them into another useless war?
2012-10-08 10:14:01 PM  
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.


FTA: "The Military Times Poll is a secure email survey of active-duty, National Guard and reserve members who are subscribers to the Military Times newspapers"

So, not veterans.
2012-10-08 09:28:31 PM  
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.


I'd like to see a better poll than that. I know it's anecdotal, but every single military person I know despises Mitt Romney. Actually, that's not true -- I know one or two that don't despise him. They're still voting for President Obama, though.
2012-10-08 06:07:37 PM  
2 votes:

FlashHarry: i'd say this guy carries more weight than the douche voting for romney down the page.


What? A three-term Senator is more credible than a sportswriter called "Buzz?"

The hell you say!
2012-10-09 12:15:15 PM  
1 votes:

legalgus: Derp derp derp derp STUPID DOUCHEBAG LIBS derp derp derp


Account created: 2012-09-28 23:46:02

Oh joy, another freshly minted shiatposting Alt.

pictat.com
2012-10-09 10:15:14 AM  
1 votes:

Towermonkey: Lunaville: Towermonkey: existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.

Myself, although I live in Louisiana and it's a pretty solid red state except for Orleans Parish and maybe a district in the Lafayette area, on occasion. It's weird with veterans sometimes, my grandfather was a naval officer in WWII, and he votes Democrat a lot, but my dad, who was a petty officer, is pretty hardcore Republican. A good friend that I have known since high school and is about to retire from active duty Army, Republican.

/ 19 Kilo, why walk into battle when you can ride
// both parties treat vets pretty shamefully

Both parties treat active duty personnel pretty shamefully. If this nation had real respect for our people in the military, war/military engagements would be almost unheard of. They should be well trained and rarely, if ever, used.

No argument from me. My little brother is still not quite right after a couple tours in Iraq and I suspect he may never be.


I'm so sorry. Is there any existing intervention that might promote his healing? If he lacks access to proper care, do you think some group like IVAW or the local Friends meeting might be able to help?

There are Friends meetings in Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Even if they don't have a standing committee dedicated to such work, if there is someone within the meeting that possesses the knowledge and skill sets necessary to be of assistance, that individual may agree to help your brother. Of course, there is no guarantee that there will be any members with the requisite knowledge and skills.

I feel like a fount of nothing in terms of information. Also, I worry I have given you some useless suggestions. I wish I could be helpful.
2012-10-09 10:00:29 AM  
1 votes:

Towermonkey: existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.

Myself, although I live in Louisiana and it's a pretty solid red state except for Orleans Parish and maybe a district in the Lafayette area, on occasion. It's weird with veterans sometimes, my grandfather was a naval officer in WWII, and he votes Democrat a lot, but my dad, who was a petty officer, is pretty hardcore Republican. A good friend that I have known since high school and is about to retire from active duty Army, Republican.

/ 19 Kilo, why walk into battle when you can ride
// both parties treat vets pretty shamefully


Both parties treat active duty personnel pretty shamefully. If this nation had real respect for our people in the military, war/military engagements would be almost unheard of. They should be well trained and rarely, if ever, used.
2012-10-09 09:57:39 AM  
1 votes:

existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.


Myself, although I live in Louisiana and it's a pretty solid red state except for Orleans Parish and maybe a district in the Lafayette area, on occasion. It's weird with veterans sometimes, my grandfather was a naval officer in WWII, and he votes Democrat a lot, but my dad, who was a petty officer, is pretty hardcore Republican. A good friend that I have known since high school and is about to retire from active duty Army, Republican.

/ 19 Kilo, why walk into battle when you can ride
// both parties treat vets pretty shamefully
2012-10-09 07:56:47 AM  
1 votes:

hubiestubert: As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that's the choice y ...


Good for you sir. You have made similar comments in the past regarding how you left the Republican Party and yet, I have not seeing a single fark troll ever call you up on it. All they do is spout their talking points about how left bad, right good etc. The left is the enemy of this country and so on and so on but I would think a troll would be more upset if one of their 'own' left the GOP. I mean what is more treasonous than that to them? And yet, not one comment about you (or other fark members that have also left the GOP) to condemn you. Not one comment asking why? Not one statement telling you that you are using the 'wrong' reasons for leaving the GOP.
2012-10-09 06:26:42 AM  
1 votes:

x23: correction : he donates an enormous amount to the Mormon church. i don't consider building a shopping mall a particularly charitable act.


Honestly, given how much they put into Prop 8, I'd consider donating to the Mormon Church to be an act of anti-charity.
2012-10-09 06:00:46 AM  
1 votes:

Jolonco: Vet that's not voting Obama.

But I guess I am just a racist, homophobic, extremist akin to some farking 3rd world Jihadist.

But what the fark would I know?


Isn't making up bullshiat to justify your position fun?

Have fun supporting someone who dodged the draft that wants to send kids to war at the drop of a hat.
2012-10-09 05:19:35 AM  
1 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu:
Mittens didn't believe the war was unjust.

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x495]


Heh. I suppose they get credit for not purging the old Romney articles after he receives the nomination.
I wonder if Fox News or the other more mainstream "news" outlets maintain them.
2012-10-09 05:13:55 AM  
1 votes:
Also,

"white Mormons were able to get the deferments, but black Mormons were barred and sent off the war because the Mormon Church never approved black Mormon men's applications for missionary exemptions."

I'd never heard that before, thanks for pointing it out, ExperianScaresCthulhu.

That is just despicable. Mind you, the Mormons basically didn't recognise black people as equals until the 1980s, so it's hardly surprising.
2012-10-09 05:04:37 AM  
1 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Trapper439: Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.

Your assumption is wrong.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x878]

Mitt is nothing like his father.

Sorry, dude. Didn't see your post before pulling up the Daily Mail version to post mine. Sorry about that :( Thank you for getting there first, to correct Dan's erroneous assumptions.


You went the extra mile and actually provided the story behind the picture. Your post was much better than mine. Kudos to you.
2012-10-09 05:00:56 AM  
1 votes:

Trapper439: Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.

Your assumption is wrong.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x878]

Mitt is nothing like his father.


Sorry, dude. Didn't see your post before pulling up the Daily Mail version to post mine. Sorry about that :( Thank you for getting there first, to correct Dan's erroneous assumptions.
2012-10-09 04:51:53 AM  
1 votes:

Trapper439: Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.

Your assumption is wrong.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x878]

Mitt is nothing like his father.


Ok, Mitt's a douche now (not like he wasn't before). It's OK for others to die in a war he supports but not himself.
2012-10-09 04:48:02 AM  
1 votes:

Captain Dan: whidbey: Not even mad. Just pointing out that you obviously can't stand the fact that the Obama administration will receive credit for supporting gay marriage that you have to concoct some series of events that somehow proves otherwise.

I don't mind if Obama gets credit for supporting gay marriage. He should. But he should have also supported it in 2008, instead of cynically pretending otherwise until he could safely endorse it.

He calculated that supporting gay marriage was politically harmful in 2008, but wasn't as harmful in 2012. He obviously cares more about re-election than about civil rights.

Well, he isn't. He's whatever the Republican party stuffs into his mouth, he doesn't care a rip about the poor, and he wants to waste a bunch of money teaching Iran a lesson in American hegemony.

Mitt Romney has said plenty that the Republican Party disagrees with (e.g. not supporting a larger tax cut). He donates an enormous amount to charity (helping the poor more than 99.9% of people ever will). And finally, he's indicated no desire to go to war with Iran. In fact, he's said the same thing about Iran that Obama has! ("All options are on the table.")

You're voting for the continued downfall of this country both economically and morally. Honestly, I wouldn't even be bragging.

This comment offers an intriguing view into your mind. Clearly, you think one of two things about me:

1) That I'm knowingly voting for a candidate who I think will lead to the downfall of America, because I am a supervillain.

2) That I am so naive that, despite my good intentions, I'm ignorantly voting for the supervillain candidate.

I hope you realize that intelligent people don't always agree, and that's especially true when it comes to politics. If you dehumanize your opponents into savages who yearn for the moral downfall of America, you're only hurting yourself - you're locking yourself inward, removed from half of your fellow Americans.


Which Mitt Romney are you voting for? The liberal one who was governor of Massachusetts or the conservative one who shucked it all to run as a GOP candidate?
2012-10-09 04:18:46 AM  
1 votes:

Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.


To escape the draft because you're fortunate enough to leave the country and leave your peers behind? Bullshiat. There were millions of men who were drafted into the war, and many of them who died probably would be a lot better candidates than Mittens. Why must his wealth make him so special?
2012-10-09 03:31:19 AM  
1 votes:

Captain Dan: Ricardo Klement: I won't vote Obama, but I can't bring myself to vote for the mystery bag of comic books known as Romney. I'm going to vote Johnson. I think that, as a conservative, I'll get more utility out of encouraging a third-party fiscally conservative candidate than vote for something that is unlikely to be a significant change from who we have now - not if you look at his history. Actions speak louder than words, and Romney is pretty damn close to Obama.

There's no change in political utility unless you vote in Ohio or Florida. And even then, it's statistically nil.

If you vote your conscience, and feel better about yourself as a result, I suppose that's a utility gain, albeit unrelated to the election. You could probably get the same result by volunteering at a soup kitchen for an hour.


Except there's utility even if you don't win the election. Remember: earning 5% of the vote qualifies the party for federal election funds. That's tangible utility. If it means more fiscal conservatism, that's better, IMNSHO, than electing an Obama clone who just happens to have an (R) after his name.
2012-10-09 03:15:38 AM  
1 votes:

Jolonco: Vet that's not voting Obama.

But I guess I am just a racist, homophobic, extremist akin to some farking 3rd world Jihadist.

But what the fark would I know?


I hope you enjoy the forthcoming cuts to the VA, GI Bill, and other Veterans Programs that will be forthcoming under a Romney administration.
2012-10-09 03:10:27 AM  
1 votes:
I won't vote Obama, but I can't bring myself to vote for the mystery bag of comic books known as Romney. I'm going to vote Johnson. I think that, as a conservative, I'll get more utility out of encouraging a third-party fiscally conservative candidate than vote for something that is unlikely to be a significant change from who we have now - not if you look at his history. Actions speak louder than words, and Romney is pretty damn close to Obama.
2012-10-09 02:08:15 AM  
1 votes:

Captain Dan: I don't think he has a secret socialist agenda, or any of that nonsense. He's a standard liberal Democrat. In terms of policy preferences, I consider him more-or-less interchangeable with John Kerry, Dick Durbin, Barbara Boxer, et al.

Maybe I'm wrong. If I am, then there should be some issues on which Obama deviates from his party. What are those issues? What are the issues on which Obama is further to the right than his Democratic colleagues in the Senate (or House, if we exclude Kucinich)?

Have any elected Democrats put forth an agenda which is to Obama's left? And are any parts of those agendas capable of being enacted, given the same circumstances that Obama had to deal with?


You're still making the argument that Obama is a liberal masquerading as a centrist, you're just not using the hyperbolic language that I used. When Obama has had the chance to take more progressive action without Congressional approval (such as trying bankers for malfeasance after the financial meltdown), he has still chosen a more centrist stance.

As far as a real liberal agenda, here is the Congressional Progressive Caucus Budget Proposal for 2012. This is far to the left of anything Obama has proposed. I would argue that it is far to the left of anything Obama would propose even if he had the votes to pass it.

Individual Income Tax Policies
• Allow the Bush-era tax cuts to expire at the end of 2012, but extend marriage relief, credits, and
incentives for children, families, and education
• Immediately rescind the upper-income tax cuts in December's tax deal
• Index the AMT for inflation for a decade (the AMT patch is fully paid for)
• Schakowsky millionaire tax rates proposal (adding 45%, 46%, 47%, 48%, and 49% top rates)
• Tax all capital gains and qualified dividends as ordinary income
• Progressive estate tax (Sanders' estate tax, repeal of Kyl-Lincoln)
• Limit the rate at which itemized deductions can reduce tax liability to 28%for high earners
• Replace the tax exclusion for interest on state and local bonds with a subsidy for the issuer

Corporate Tax Reform
• Tax U.S. corporate foreign income as it is earned
• Eliminate corporate welfare for oil, gas, and coal companies
• Enact a financial crisis responsibility fee
• Financial speculation tax (derivatives, foreign exchange)
• Reinstate Superfund taxes

Health Care
• Enact a public option
• Negotiate Rx payments with pharmaceutical companies
• CMS program integrity and other Medicare and Medicaid savings in the president's budget
• Prevent a cut in Medicare physician payments for a decade (maintain doc fix)

Social Security
• Raise the taxable maximum on the employee side to 90% of earnings and eliminate the taxable
maximum on the employer side
• Increase benefits based on higher contributions on the employee side

Defense Savings
• End overseas contingency operations emergency supplementals starting in Fiscal Year 2013,
providing $170 billion in FY2012 to fund redeployment, while saving more than $1.8 trillion
from current law spending levels over ten years
• Reduce baseline defense spending by reducing strategic capabilities, conventional forces,
procurement, and R&D programs

Comprehensive Jobs Program
• Invest $1.45 trillion in job creation, education, clean energy and broadband infrastructure,
housing, and R&D
• Infrastructure bank
• Surface transportation reauthorization bill ($213 billion)
2012-10-09 02:05:46 AM  
1 votes:

bdub77: Maybe you should answer the question on how you think Obama is a liberal?


I consider his actions as president, with a few exceptions (e.g. civil rights, drone policy) to be as liberal as he could practicably get away with.

I'm not comparing his governance to the ideal of liberalism (e.g. to exaggerate, comparing Obamacare to government-run health care, funded entirely by military cuts and higher income taxes), but how liberal some realistic legislation could be. Military cuts and higher income taxes weren't realistically available in 2009; Congress would never support them. So Obama had to do the best he could with the Congress he had.

There was no legislation that went through Congress but was too far to the left for Obama. He can only be considered a moderate if you compare him to idealistic liberal legislation that couldn't pass through Congress.

- Healthcare: took the plan conservatives in the 90s had touted. Cut Medicare costs while preserving benefits.

This was the most liberal health care reform that was available to him. If he had the votes for single payer, he clearly would have pursued that instead.

- Foreign policy: got out of only one war so far, killed Bin Laden in Pakistan, got involved in Libyan uprising.

Expansive government intrusion in foreign policy is pretty liberal - it's just that Republican foreign policy has become so aggressive that nobody remembers what conservative foreign policy looks like. Obama's a Wilsonian on foreign policy, just like his predecessors Bush and Clinton.

- Tax policy: kept taxes low his entire term, even lowered payroll taxes. Wants to let Bush's ridiculous policies expire in favor of Clinton-era (a centrist) taxes. Lowered taxes to small businesses on several occasions.

From my point of view, admittedly slanted, I don't see Obama as a guy who believes that lower taxes are helpful for the economy. I see these as provisional measures, designed to buy time before a 2013 tax hike.

- Energy: favors energy independence, has been in favor of oil drilling, coal, and natural gas as part of energy policy. Also favors clean energy because he believes it's a good investment for a number of reasons.

That's pretty standard for most liberal Democrats. Have any Democratic Senators advocated otherwise?

- Jobs policies: has been more favorable toward private sector jobs than public sector jobs.

How so? Almost all of the cuts to public sector jobs have been done at the state and local level - i.e. outside of Obama's purview. Federal government employment has remained steady since 2009, even as the private sector was losing millions of jobs. Where was the shared sacrifice?

Contrary to popular rhetoric, there has been no government takeover of healthcare. It's still an insurance market, with better overall outcomes.

I attribute this to a reticent Congress rather than any decision of Obama. By his own admission, he was unable to get the healthcare reform he wanted.

Face it, Obama's policies have favored the private sector and businesses in most ways. Those are centrist policies. And the Democratic party, along with the rest of the country, is continuing to shift right on policy. In many ways it has been forced to do so fiscally by the exploding debt and deficits which were mostly the result of GOP leaders and their overspending and undertaxing.

There's no evidence that I've seen of a Democrat saying "theoretically, this level of taxation is too high for me." The only limits on government expansion that Democrats abide by are the limits placed upon them externally, not by any internal desire for moderation.

The fact that the economy has been sluggish is 90% the fault of Bush and the European debt crisis. The housing bubble was a total disaster, one that Obama had no part in other than cleanup. The other 10% is the fault of GOP leadership, who have no interest in giving Obama a win on economics - they ate it hard in 1996 when Clinton's robust economy left them in the dust.

I don't blame Obama for the economy. It's 99% not his fault.
2012-10-09 01:45:26 AM  
1 votes:

Mugato: tenpoundsofcheese: every military person and veteran I know are voting Romney.

Well if that's true, what does it say about the military people and veterans that you know that they're voting for someone who will cut their benefits and send them into another useless war?


Well to be sure, the Republicans are master social engineers. They've consistently convinced tens of millions of people to vote against their own best interests (the voters interests) for decades now, because jesus...
2012-10-09 01:24:56 AM  
1 votes:

Captain Dan: Off-topic, somewhat:

What's with Democrats all claiming that Obama is suddenly a moderate Republican? Is this a mere election-season pivot to the center, or do people actually believe that?

From my point of view, Obama is no moderate. He's a liberal Democrat with liberal policy preferences, who has been forced into centrist governance by circumstances (lack of a veto-proof liberal majority) rather than by any desire for moderation. Dennis Kucinich wouldn't be able to govern much further to the left, except perhaps on civil liberties.


No one can read Obama's mind and discover his true policy preferences. I think you're buying into the Republican narrative that he is some sort of radical sleeper agent just waiting to unleash his socialist voodoo on the American people. Also, as others have said, the center of American politics has been moving right for a long time now. Legislatively, Obama is closest to a Rockefeller Republican.

The one thing that seems clear to me that the President is a pragmatist, not an ideologue and much prefers getting things done to advancing an agenda.
2012-10-09 12:51:58 AM  
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

FTA: "The Military Times Poll is a secure email survey of active-duty, National Guard and reserve members who are subscribers to the Military Times newspapers"

So, not veterans.


If it was veterans he'd be screwed as Romney flat out stated they don't deserve anything more.
2012-10-09 12:44:47 AM  
1 votes:

legalgus: Another long winded liberal douchbag claiming to be a Republican. Only a true dyed in the wool idiot would fail to realize what a disaster we'd have with four more years of Obama.


Account created: 2012-09-28 23:46:02

Another troll alt.

Ploink.
2012-10-09 12:37:54 AM  
1 votes:

A Dark Evil Omen: Why a Republican should vote for Obama: Because he's to the right of every Republican president but the last one. He's a conservative hawk. He is the very heart and soul of the Republican Party. Instead of him being Kenyan, the Birthers should be screaming that he's actually an elephant.


But the President is near.
2012-10-09 12:35:04 AM  
1 votes:
Why a Republican should vote for Obama: Because he's to the right of every Republican president but the last one. He's a conservative hawk. He is the very heart and soul of the Republican Party. Instead of him being Kenyan, the Birthers should be screaming that he's actually an elephant.
2012-10-09 12:33:25 AM  
1 votes:

Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.


No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?
2012-10-09 12:31:42 AM  
1 votes:

hubiestubert: As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that's the choice you are faced with. If Snowe had run, and made it through the Primaries, I'd probably still be Republican, because I worked her campaign in college, and truly believe her to be a good choice. Good for the state of Maine, and good for the nation. But that wasn't in the cards, and more's the pity, because Snowe would have given this country what it needs: a strong Republican voice that is tempered with solid experience and solid leadership qualities, not just the glad handing and cheerleading that folks seem to want...


Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.
2012-10-08 11:05:21 PM  
1 votes:

fusillade762: I'm afraid the extreme wing will say that we weren't conservative enough.

You mean they're going to get even crazier?  I'm sorta terrified to wonder what that would consist of.


If you really want to understand American politics, just Google "Morlocks and Eloi."
2012-10-08 10:01:11 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: DrowningLessons: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

I'd like to see a better poll than that. I know it's anecdotal, but every single military person I know despises Mitt Romney. Actually, that's not true -- I know one or two that don't despise him. They're still voting for President Obama, though.

weird huh, that people you hang out with and know have similar viewpoints than you have.

every military person and veteran I know are voting Romney.


... making both of our experiences anecdotal, and this poll is not from a place I trust, so I'd like another source. No need to be snippy there, dickless.
2012-10-08 09:46:45 PM  
1 votes:

I_C_Weener: Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.


Well, he's still a Republican. So the headline is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.
2012-10-08 09:34:57 PM  
1 votes:
Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.  
2012-10-08 08:47:29 PM  
1 votes:
FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.
2012-10-08 05:31:10 PM  
1 votes:
i'd say this guy carries more weight than the douche voting for romney down the page.
 
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