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(Salon)   Two can play at that game: Why, I, a lifelong Republican, am voting for Obama   (salon.com) divider line 160
    More: Interesting, President Obama, Republican, Larry Pressler, congresses, Chuck Hagel, Salon  
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4211 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Oct 2012 at 12:26 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



160 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-08 05:31:10 PM  
i'd say this guy carries more weight than the douche voting for romney down the page.
 
2012-10-08 05:45:59 PM  
LOL.
 
2012-10-08 06:00:42 PM  
 
2012-10-08 06:06:38 PM  
i105.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-08 06:07:37 PM  

FlashHarry: i'd say this guy carries more weight than the douche voting for romney down the page.


What? A three-term Senator is more credible than a sportswriter called "Buzz?"

The hell you say!
 
2012-10-08 08:33:01 PM  
Person on internet with political opinion: "I'm an idiot."

Me: "Yes you are. But good choice."
 
2012-10-08 08:47:29 PM  
FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.
 
2012-10-08 09:17:35 PM  
I personally support Obama because he's the best Republican to run in decades.
 
2012-10-08 09:19:03 PM  
I'm afraid the extreme wing will say that we weren't conservative enough.

You mean they're going to get even crazier?  I'm sorta terrified to wonder what that would consist of.
 
2012-10-08 09:21:02 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.


Well since Romney''s going to slash veteran's benefits and plans to get us into at least one more war in the Mid East, I think if veterans still support him it says more about veterans.
 
2012-10-08 09:26:04 PM  

fusillade762: I'm afraid the extreme wing will say that we weren't conservative enough.

You mean they're going to get even crazier?  I'm sorta terrified to wonder what that would consist of.


Ideology could be circular, which means it'll come right back around to the left.
 
2012-10-08 09:28:31 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.


I'd like to see a better poll than that. I know it's anecdotal, but every single military person I know despises Mitt Romney. Actually, that's not true -- I know one or two that don't despise him. They're still voting for President Obama, though.
 
2012-10-08 09:34:57 PM  
Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.  
 
2012-10-08 09:36:08 PM  

DrowningLessons: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

I'd like to see a better poll than that. I know it's anecdotal, but every single military person I know despises Mitt Romney. Actually, that's not true -- I know one or two that don't despise him. They're still voting for President Obama, though.


I know nothing about The Military Times subscribers. I'll just assume it's like polling NRA members.
 
2012-10-08 09:44:08 PM  
And I, a lifetime member of the Extremely Silly Party, will vote this year for the Sensible Party candidate.

Yeah, that's right. I'm bypassing the guy from the regular Silly Party and crossing all the way over to Sensible.
 
2012-10-08 09:44:42 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.


Ah, yes, reason #947 why Obama's reelection will be a fraud.
 
2012-10-08 09:45:49 PM  

tomasso: And I, a lifetime member of the Extremely Silly Party, will vote this year for the Sensible Party candidate.

Yeah, that's right. I'm bypassing the guy from the regular Silly Party and crossing all the way over to Sensible.


Well, I'd vote silly party, but I can't walk the walk.
 
2012-10-08 09:46:45 PM  

I_C_Weener: Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.


Well, he's still a Republican. So the headline is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.
 
2012-10-08 09:49:03 PM  

I_C_Weener: Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.


He voted for Obama to prove he wasn't stupid. Now, he is going to prove that he is stupid by voting for Obama again.

/lol
 
2012-10-08 09:49:32 PM  

DrowningLessons: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

I'd like to see a better poll than that. I know it's anecdotal, but every single military person I know despises Mitt Romney. Actually, that's not true -- I know one or two that don't despise him. They're still voting for President Obama, though.


weird huh, that people you hang out with and know have similar viewpoints than you have.

every military person and veteran I know are voting Romney.
 
2012-10-08 09:54:10 PM  

I_C_Weener: Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.


Lifelong Democrat:

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com 

Huh
 
2012-10-08 10:01:02 PM  

fusillade762: I_C_Weener: Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.

Well, he's still a Republican. So the headline is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.


Heh
 
2012-10-08 10:01:11 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: DrowningLessons: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

I'd like to see a better poll than that. I know it's anecdotal, but every single military person I know despises Mitt Romney. Actually, that's not true -- I know one or two that don't despise him. They're still voting for President Obama, though.

weird huh, that people you hang out with and know have similar viewpoints than you have.

every military person and veteran I know are voting Romney.


... making both of our experiences anecdotal, and this poll is not from a place I trust, so I'd like another source. No need to be snippy there, dickless.
 
2012-10-08 10:06:59 PM  

DrowningLessons: this poll is not from a place I trust


Why don't you trust a poll from Military Times?
 
2012-10-08 10:11:42 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: DrowningLessons: this poll is not from a place I trust

Why don't you trust a poll from Military Times?


*shrug* It doesn't come up often in conversation, most people I know (including military peeps) don't really read it, it's not a place known for its polling, nor does it have its metrics or polling data explained, it only has a #39,140 Alexa ranking, etc. I see no reason to trust it at all, other than it says what you want.
 
2012-10-08 10:14:01 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.


FTA: "The Military Times Poll is a secure email survey of active-duty, National Guard and reserve members who are subscribers to the Military Times newspapers"

So, not veterans.
 
2012-10-08 10:20:11 PM  
I'm pretty sure the Military Times is one of those free weeklies that are next to the Union-Tribune (the "main" newspaper here, also ultra-right wing). 

/would obtain either only for birdcage liner.
 
2012-10-08 10:27:07 PM  

themindiswatching: I'm pretty sure the Military Times is one of those free weeklies


Yup. I wasn't aware that you could even subscribe to it.
 
2012-10-08 10:31:01 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: every military person and veteran I know are voting Romney.


Well if that's true, what does it say about the military people and veterans that you know that they're voting for someone who will cut their benefits and send them into another useless war?
 
2012-10-08 10:52:33 PM  

themindiswatching: I'm pretty sure the Military Times is one of those free weeklies that are next to the Union-Tribune (the "main" newspaper here, also ultra-right wing). 

/would obtain either only for birdcage liner.


While the U-T was no NC Times (which they recently bought), their Chargers coverage was marginally above crap. So they had sports going for them. Which is nice.
 
2012-10-08 11:02:49 PM  

fusillade762: I_C_Weener: Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.

Well, he's still a Republican. So the headline is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.


I should have asked for ten pounds of Cheese Fries on Saturday. For the lulz.
 
2012-10-08 11:05:21 PM  

fusillade762: I'm afraid the extreme wing will say that we weren't conservative enough.

You mean they're going to get even crazier?  I'm sorta terrified to wonder what that would consist of.


If you really want to understand American politics, just Google "Morlocks and Eloi."
 
2012-10-08 11:07:33 PM  

FloydA: fusillade762: I'm afraid the extreme wing will say that we weren't conservative enough.

You mean they're going to get even crazier?  I'm sorta terrified to wonder what that would consist of.

If you really want to understand American politics, just Google "Morlocks and Eloi."


Honestly, you think anyone here doesn't understand the reference?
 
2012-10-08 11:16:53 PM  

simplicimus:

Honestly, you think anyone here doesn't understand the reference?


My expectations for the Politics tab are rather low. TBH, I'm impressed that half of these farknuggets understand that they should wipe when they poo.
 
2012-10-08 11:29:38 PM  
As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that's the choice you are faced with. If Snowe had run, and made it through the Primaries, I'd probably still be Republican, because I worked her campaign in college, and truly believe her to be a good choice. Good for the state of Maine, and good for the nation. But that wasn't in the cards, and more's the pity, because Snowe would have given this country what it needs: a strong Republican voice that is tempered with solid experience and solid leadership qualities, not just the glad handing and cheerleading that folks seem to want...
 
2012-10-08 11:50:22 PM  

davidphogan: I should have asked for ten pounds of Cheese Fries on Saturday. For the lulz.


Heh. The dish that makes you vomit and raises your blood pressure to dangerous levels.
 
2012-10-09 12:00:48 AM  

fusillade762: davidphogan: I should have asked for ten pounds of Cheese Fries on Saturday. For the lulz.

Heh. The dish that makes you vomit and raises your blood pressure to dangerous levels.


It also makes you sound tired.
 
2012-10-09 12:03:24 AM  

bdub77: fusillade762: davidphogan: I should have asked for ten pounds of Cheese Fries on Saturday. For the lulz.

Heh. The dish that makes you vomit and raises your blood pressure to dangerous levels.

It also makes you sound tired.


Eh, I'll give him a break today. He's had a better polling day than he ever imagined he could have.
 
2012-10-09 12:29:05 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.


Hey, If I were the military, I'd support the guy trying to protect all the waste and pork in the budget as well.
 
2012-10-09 12:31:42 AM  

hubiestubert: As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that's the choice you are faced with. If Snowe had run, and made it through the Primaries, I'd probably still be Republican, because I worked her campaign in college, and truly believe her to be a good choice. Good for the state of Maine, and good for the nation. But that wasn't in the cards, and more's the pity, because Snowe would have given this country what it needs: a strong Republican voice that is tempered with solid experience and solid leadership qualities, not just the glad handing and cheerleading that folks seem to want...


Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.
 
2012-10-09 12:33:25 AM  

Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.


No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?
 
2012-10-09 12:34:36 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1


The poll you linked to surveyed active and reserve soldiers, they didn't ask a single veteran what they thought. I know at least a couple of veterans who were Republicans when they were in service but became Democrats when they left and realized how much Republicans screw veterans. (I'm a veteran myself, but I've always voted for Democrats).
 
2012-10-09 12:35:04 AM  
Why a Republican should vote for Obama: Because he's to the right of every Republican president but the last one. He's a conservative hawk. He is the very heart and soul of the Republican Party. Instead of him being Kenyan, the Birthers should be screaming that he's actually an elephant.
 
2012-10-09 12:36:31 AM  
Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.
 
2012-10-09 12:37:38 AM  

Mugato: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

Well since Romney''s going to slash veteran's benefits and plans to get us into at least one more war in the Mid East, I think if veterans still support him it says more about veterans.


I'm beginning to think some military members think Romney is the way they can move up in pay grade.

If they live through it.

/I have no idea why anyone would vote against the man who ended the multiple 15 month combat tours with no time off between
 
2012-10-09 12:37:54 AM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Why a Republican should vote for Obama: Because he's to the right of every Republican president but the last one. He's a conservative hawk. He is the very heart and soul of the Republican Party. Instead of him being Kenyan, the Birthers should be screaming that he's actually an elephant.


But the President is near.
 
2012-10-09 12:39:10 AM  
My dad, three of my uncles, two of my brothers, and an aunt are all veterans. They will be voting for President Obama. The relatives that are voting for Romney are the "I'll send my sons to Canada if there is a draft" sort of people. I love them, but they are batshiat crazy teabaggers.
 
2012-10-09 12:39:59 AM  

Mrtraveler01: Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.

No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?


Well he did vote for Obama last time and he despised W. So, I guess not much of a Republican really...
 
2012-10-09 12:40:59 AM  

Soymilk: Mrtraveler01: Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.

No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?

Well he did vote for Obama last time and he despised W. So, I guess not much of a Republican really...


No. He just recognized stupid when he saw it and voted for the right guy for a change.
 
2012-10-09 12:41:13 AM  

FloydA: Honestly, you think anyone here doesn't understand the reference?

My expectations for the Politics tab are rather low. TBH, I'm impressed that half of these farknuggets understand that they should wipe when they poo.


But if your expectations are that low, why do you expect that they'd even bother Googling a reference they don't understand?
 
2012-10-09 12:42:56 AM  

hubiestubert: As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that's the choice you are faced with. If Snowe had run, and made it through the Primaries, I'd probably still be Republican, because I worked her campaign in college, and truly believe her to be a good choice. Good for the state of Maine, and good for the nation. But that wasn't in the cards, and more's the pity, because Snowe would have given this country what it needs: a strong Republican voice that is tempered with solid experience and solid leadership qualities, not just the glad handing and cheerleading that folks seem to want...


Another long winded liberal douchbag claiming to be a Republican. Only a true dyed in the wool idiot would fail to realize what a disaster we'd have with four more years of Obama.
 
2012-10-09 12:44:28 AM  

Soymilk: Mrtraveler01: Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.

No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?

Well he did vote for Obama last time and he despised W. So, I guess not much of a Republican really...


Well I apologize for not giving him enough credit then.
 
2012-10-09 12:44:45 AM  

heidinoele: Soymilk: Mrtraveler01: Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.

No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?

Well he did vote for Obama last time and he despised W. So, I guess not much of a Republican really...

No. He just recognized stupid when he saw it and voted for the right guy for a change.


Yah and we got really stupid in the Whitehouse right now.
 
2012-10-09 12:44:47 AM  

legalgus: Another long winded liberal douchbag claiming to be a Republican. Only a true dyed in the wool idiot would fail to realize what a disaster we'd have with four more years of Obama.


Account created: 2012-09-28 23:46:02

Another troll alt.

Ploink.
 
2012-10-09 12:46:07 AM  

legalgus: hubiestubert: As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that' ...


2012-09-28 23:46:02

You learn quick.
 
2012-10-09 12:46:57 AM  
Pressler, eh? Yeah, that will be an influential endorsement.
 
2012-10-09 12:47:10 AM  

Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

Hey, If I were the military, I'd support the guy trying to protect all the waste and pork in the budget as well.


Well you see, the active military are alot like recording artists. They don't realize how badly they're being farked over until their master's have taken everything from them. Then they do a 180 on the streets as they scrap for food.
 
2012-10-09 12:47:53 AM  
Both parties are losing members... but it's mainly Democrats.

I'm amused by all the Ex-Republicans out there online. Apparently with everyone leaving the party they must have an incredible turnover rate to lose so many each election cycle yet still take a larger percentage of voter affiliations.

Apparently the whole country is composed of GOP current and ex members.
 
2012-10-09 12:48:20 AM  

legalgus: heidinoele: Soymilk: Mrtraveler01: Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.

No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?

Well he did vote for Obama last time and he despised W. So, I guess not much of a Republican really...

No. He just recognized stupid when he saw it and voted for the right guy for a change.

Yah and we got really stupid in the Whitehouse right now.


Trolly McTrolly, it's spelled " The White House". You know, as in:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-09 12:50:57 AM  

EnviroDude: I_C_Weener: Lifelong?  
 
"A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008".  
 
Huh.

He voted for Obama to prove he wasn't stupid. Now, he is going to prove that he is stupid by voting for Obama again.

/lol


Would you vote for George W. Bush over Obama? Because Romney is advocating the exact same positions, right down to "Bullshiat invasion of a Middle Eastern country". And it'll already take decades just to clean up after that retarded pseudo-cowboy.
 
2012-10-09 12:51:58 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

FTA: "The Military Times Poll is a secure email survey of active-duty, National Guard and reserve members who are subscribers to the Military Times newspapers"

So, not veterans.


If it was veterans he'd be screwed as Romney flat out stated they don't deserve anything more.
 
2012-10-09 12:52:21 AM  

Mrbogey: Both parties are losing members... but it's mainly Democrats.

I'm amused by all the Ex-Republicans out there online. Apparently with everyone leaving the party they must have an incredible turnover rate to lose so many each election cycle yet still take a larger percentage of voter affiliations.

Apparently the whole country is composed of GOP current and ex members.


Did you read the article you just posted? They only tracked in eight states.
 
2012-10-09 12:52:36 AM  
Wait till Pressler finds out that Obama's policy is fairly much the same as Bush's.
 
2012-10-09 12:53:11 AM  

heidinoele: Soymilk: Mrtraveler01: Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.

No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?

Well he did vote for Obama last time and he despised W. So, I guess not much of a Republican really...

No. He just recognized stupid when he saw it and voted for the right guy for a change.


My Asian immigrant naturalized citizen mother who is socially somewhat conservative (deport the illegals, no to gay marriage, but yes to abortion - go figure) is voting for Obama because in her elderly Asian lady way of putting it: "Romney seems like a rich smug bastard who doesn't care about anyone else."

And in regards to Romney's war stance: "Of course he's pro-war. It's easy to be pro-war when you can send other people's sons to die."
 
2012-10-09 12:55:57 AM  

Soymilk: heidinoele: Soymilk: Mrtraveler01: Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.

No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?

Well he did vote for Obama last time and he despised W. So, I guess not much of a Republican really...

No. He just recognized stupid when he saw it and voted for the right guy for a change.

My Asian immigrant naturalized citizen mother who is socially somewhat conservative (deport the illegals, no to gay marriage, but yes to abortion - go figure) is voting for Obama because in her elderly Asian lady way of putting it: "Romney seems like a rich smug bastard who doesn't care about anyone else."

And in regards to Romney's war stance: "Of course he's pro-war. It's easy to be pro-war when you can send other people's sons to die."


Your mom sounds pretty awesome.
 
2012-10-09 12:57:17 AM  

Fart_Machine: legalgus: Another long winded liberal douchbag claiming to be a Republican. Only a true dyed in the wool idiot would fail to realize what a disaster we'd have with four more years of Obama.

Account created: 2012-09-28 23:46:02

Another troll alt.

Ploink.

 

I'm surprised he didn't write 0bama actually.
 
2012-10-09 12:58:01 AM  

fusillade762: I'm afraid the extreme wing will say that we weren't conservative enough.

You mean they're going to get even crazier?  I'm sorta terrified to wonder what that would consist of.


I don't think you can get much crazier than advocating the legalization of child murder as punishment for a kid acting up. Unless you want to go full Nazi.
 
2012-10-09 12:58:43 AM  

deadcrickets: Wait till Pressler finds out that Obama's policy is fairly much the same as Bush's.


Well, except for tax policy (advocates raising taxes, repeatedly blocked by Republicans), defense policy (Drone strikes and targeted raids instead of invasions, issued an executive order to close Guantanamo but was, again, blocked by Republicans), foreign policy (isn't a complete hand puppet for Israel, isn't a complete dick to everyone, hasn't massaged any heads of state against their will), economic policy in general (Brought us out of the Great Republican Recession, backed numerous jobs bills that, again, the Republicans blocked), social issues...

Yeah, he's not as liberal as I'd like, but he's much better than Bush. If you don't see that, you have blinders the size of Romney's ego.
 
2012-10-09 01:00:40 AM  
Off-topic, somewhat:

What's with Democrats all claiming that Obama is suddenly a moderate Republican? Is this a mere election-season pivot to the center, or do people actually believe that?

From my point of view, Obama is no moderate. He's a liberal Democrat with liberal policy preferences, who has been forced into centrist governance by circumstances (lack of a veto-proof liberal majority) rather than by any desire for moderation. Dennis Kucinich wouldn't be able to govern much further to the left, except perhaps on civil liberties.
 
2012-10-09 01:03:13 AM  

taxandspend: My roommate's a veteran, wouldn't vote for Romney is his life depended on it.

I'm voting for Obama because in four years, we'll have better candidates from both parties to choose from.


This ^.

These modern Republicans have absolutely no business being in power. Their ideas have been repeatedly proven not to work; trickle-down is a scam designed to crush the middle class and funnel their money into the pockets of the wealthy, their social policies are barbaric, and their foreign policy is insane.

The GOP has been rotting since Reagan. And now that the crazies aretaking over, they're dragging the GOP's corruption into the spotlight. As a political party, the GOP needs to collapse so a sane party can take its place.
 
2012-10-09 01:04:42 AM  

deadcrickets: Wait till Pressler finds out that Obama's policy is fairly much the same as Bush's.


Not really, not even close to the extent that Romney's policy is the same as Bush's (to the extent that his team consists of most of the neocons in Bush's administration). Obama is more of someone who uses the military strategically in accomplish fixed goals rather than having open ended occupations. Obama certainly knows better than to get into a fight with Iran, which is what Romney is dumb enough to do, and also is what Bush was pushing for.
 
2012-10-09 01:07:17 AM  

LordJiro: taxandspend: My roommate's a veteran, wouldn't vote for Romney is his life depended on it.

I'm voting for Obama because in four years, we'll have better candidates from both parties to choose from.

This ^.

These modern Republicans have absolutely no business being in power. Their ideas have been repeatedly proven not to work; trickle-down is a scam designed to crush the middle class and funnel their money into the pockets of the wealthy, their social policies are barbaric, and their foreign policy is insane.

The GOP has been rotting since Reagan. And now that the crazies aretaking over, they're dragging the GOP's corruption into the spotlight. As a political party, the GOP needs to collapse so a sane party can take its place.


Good luck replacing a billion dollar empire fueled by big business of the most powerful country on earth. You might as well solve world peace.
 
2012-10-09 01:09:45 AM  

Captain Dan: From my point of view


home.comcast.net

Delusion is a type of point of view.
 
2012-10-09 01:10:01 AM  

Captain Dan: Off-topic, somewhat:

What's with Democrats all claiming that Obama is suddenly a moderate Republican? Is this a mere election-season pivot to the center, or do people actually believe that?

From my point of view, Obama is no moderate. He's a liberal Democrat with liberal policy preferences, who has been forced into centrist governance by circumstances (lack of a veto-proof liberal majority) rather than by any desire for moderation. Dennis Kucinich wouldn't be able to govern much further to the left, except perhaps on civil liberties.


Your point of view is incorrect. And many of us here have not "suddenly" started claiming Obama is right of center- we've been saying it all along. He's definitely no liberal on almost any stance he takes. Your definition of "liberal" has been handed to you by arch conservatives. And it's incorrect.
 
2012-10-09 01:10:16 AM  

heidinoele: Soymilk: heidinoele: Soymilk: Mrtraveler01: Soymilk: Mr Soy is a lifelong Republican, and still considers himself one. However, he's voting Obama since he believes the Christian Right and crazy teabaggers have highjacked the party.

No offense and all, but is he just realizing this now?

Well he did vote for Obama last time and he despised W. So, I guess not much of a Republican really...

No. He just recognized stupid when he saw it and voted for the right guy for a change.

My Asian immigrant naturalized citizen mother who is socially somewhat conservative (deport the illegals, no to gay marriage, but yes to abortion - go figure) is voting for Obama because in her elderly Asian lady way of putting it: "Romney seems like a rich smug bastard who doesn't care about anyone else."

And in regards to Romney's war stance: "Of course he's pro-war. It's easy to be pro-war when you can send other people's sons to die."

Your mom sounds pretty awesome.


It's even more awesome when she's saying it in our heathen lingo and calling him "Low Moo Nee".

Mom's hard to profile politically. She's a huge Hillary fan, is pro-choice, pro-birth control, yet she remains convinced that gay marriage is an abomination and enthusiastically voted for Prop 8. She invites any local candidate to put a sign in her yard but doesn't care if they get stolen.

I love the crazy old lady.
 
2012-10-09 01:10:57 AM  

Captain Dan: From my point of view, Obama is no moderate. He's a liberal Democrat with liberal policy preferences, who has been forced into centrist governance by circumstances (lack of a veto-proof liberal majority) rather than by any desire for moderation. Dennis Kucinich wouldn't be able to govern much further to the left, except perhaps on civil liberties.


While I partly agree with you, Kucinich was also much farther to the left in terms of views on defense. He wanted to create a Department of Peace, and we'd certainly be out of Afghanistan under a Kucinich administration (and probably wouldn't be using drones as well).

Anyway, Obama is somewhat to the left that governed in the center, but he certainly isn't the libbyist lib who ever libbed left.
 
2012-10-09 01:14:54 AM  

taxandspend: My roommate's a veteran, wouldn't vote for Romney is his life depended on it.

I'm voting for Obama because in four years, we'll have better candidates from both parties to choose from.


One would hope. (I don't have much hope left)
 
2012-10-09 01:16:09 AM  
my own father, who voted for goldwater for goodness sakes, said after the conventions that if clinton could run again he'd have his vote.
 
2012-10-09 01:17:44 AM  
In 2008, Pressler revealed that he cast an absentee ballot for Barack Obama, noting that he had never voted for a Democrat before.

Broken record.

On November 10, 2009 President Barack Obama named Larry Pressler to the U.S. Commission for the Preservation of America's Heritage Abroad
 
2012-10-09 01:18:17 AM  

Fart_Machine: Did you read the article you just posted? They only tracked in eight states.


I grabbed the first article I found but the trend isn't isolated there.

Link
 
2012-10-09 01:21:46 AM  

Gwyrddu: Anyway, Obama is somewhat to the left that governed in the center, but he certainly isn't the libbyist lib who ever libbed left.


I don't think he's the libbyist lib, or a socialist, or any of that crap. Just a standard liberal Democrat. He compiled a near 100% liberal voting record as a legislator. His foreign policy is the same that almost any Democrat would execute (have any Democratic congressmen raised objections to his policies?).

On domestic policy, he's mostly governed as leftward as he could get away with. Put another way: if Congress managed to pass a tax increase, on anything, set at any level, can you imagine Obama vetoing it? I can't.

(Kucinich, now that I'm thinking about it, was a bad idea for comparison. He's an anomaly, the left's version of Ron Paul.)

James F. Campbell: Delusion is a type of point of view.


Ad hominem is a type of argument.
 
2012-10-09 01:24:56 AM  

Captain Dan: Off-topic, somewhat:

What's with Democrats all claiming that Obama is suddenly a moderate Republican? Is this a mere election-season pivot to the center, or do people actually believe that?

From my point of view, Obama is no moderate. He's a liberal Democrat with liberal policy preferences, who has been forced into centrist governance by circumstances (lack of a veto-proof liberal majority) rather than by any desire for moderation. Dennis Kucinich wouldn't be able to govern much further to the left, except perhaps on civil liberties.


No one can read Obama's mind and discover his true policy preferences. I think you're buying into the Republican narrative that he is some sort of radical sleeper agent just waiting to unleash his socialist voodoo on the American people. Also, as others have said, the center of American politics has been moving right for a long time now. Legislatively, Obama is closest to a Rockefeller Republican.

The one thing that seems clear to me that the President is a pragmatist, not an ideologue and much prefers getting things done to advancing an agenda.
 
2012-10-09 01:26:28 AM  

Captain Dan: Ad hominem is a type of argument.


Silly batguano crazy conservative, thinking he's worth anything more than an ad hominem.
 
2012-10-09 01:30:48 AM  

Captain Dan: Off-topic, somewhat:

What's with Democrats all claiming that Obama is suddenly a moderate Republican? Is this a mere election-season pivot to the center, or do people actually believe that?

From my point of view, Obama is no moderate. He's a liberal Democrat with liberal policy preferences, who has been forced into centrist governance by circumstances (lack of a veto-proof liberal majority) rather than by any desire for moderation. Dennis Kucinich wouldn't be able to govern much further to the left, except perhaps on civil liberties.


Maybe you should answer the question on how you think Obama is a liberal?

You apparently have no clue what liberalism is.

- Healthcare: took the plan conservatives in the 90s had touted. Cut Medicare costs while preserving benefits.
- Foreign policy: got out of only one war so far, killed Bin Laden in Pakistan, got involved in Libyan uprising.
- Tax policy: kept taxes low his entire term, even lowered payroll taxes. Wants to let Bush's ridiculous policies expire in favor of Clinton-era (a centrist) taxes. Lowered taxes to small businesses on several occasions.
- Energy: favors energy independence, has been in favor of oil drilling, coal, and natural gas as part of energy policy. Also favors clean energy because he believes it's a good investment for a number of reasons.
- Jobs policies: has been more favorable toward private sector jobs than public sector jobs.

Contrary to popular rhetoric, there has been no government takeover of healthcare. It's still an insurance market, with better overall outcomes.

Face it, Obama's policies have favored the private sector and businesses in most ways. Those are centrist policies. And the Democratic party, along with the rest of the country, is continuing to shift right on policy. In many ways it has been forced to do so fiscally by the exploding debt and deficits which were mostly the result of GOP leaders and their overspending and undertaxing.

The fact that the economy has been sluggish is 90% the fault of Bush and the European debt crisis. The housing bubble was a total disaster, one that Obama had no part in other than cleanup. The other 10% is the fault of GOP leadership, who have no interest in giving Obama a win on economics - they ate it hard in 1996 when Clinton's robust economy left them in the dust.
 
2012-10-09 01:37:37 AM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: No one can read Obama's mind and discover his true policy preferences. I think you're buying into the Republican narrative that he is some sort of radical sleeper agent just waiting to unleash his socialist voodoo on the American people. Also, as others have said, the center of American politics has been moving right for a long time now. Legislatively, Obama is closest to a Rockefeller Republican.

The one thing that seems clear to me that the President is a pragmatist, not an ideologue and much prefers getting things done to advancing an agenda.


I don't think he has a secret socialist agenda, or any of that nonsense. He's a standard liberal Democrat. In terms of policy preferences, I consider him more-or-less interchangeable with John Kerry, Dick Durbin, Barbara Boxer, et al.

Maybe I'm wrong. If I am, then there should be some issues on which Obama deviates from his party. What are those issues? What are the issues on which Obama is further to the right than his Democratic colleagues in the Senate (or House, if we exclude Kucinich)?

Have any elected Democrats put forth an agenda which is to Obama's left? And are any parts of those agendas capable of being enacted, given the same circumstances that Obama had to deal with?

James F. Campbell: Silly batguano crazy conservative, thinking he's worth anything more than an ad hominem.


Yeah, I probably shouldn't expect any better than logical fallacies.
 
2012-10-09 01:45:26 AM  

Mugato: tenpoundsofcheese: every military person and veteran I know are voting Romney.

Well if that's true, what does it say about the military people and veterans that you know that they're voting for someone who will cut their benefits and send them into another useless war?


Well to be sure, the Republicans are master social engineers. They've consistently convinced tens of millions of people to vote against their own best interests (the voters interests) for decades now, because jesus...
 
2012-10-09 01:48:55 AM  

Captain Dan: Off-topic, somewhat:

What's with Democrats all claiming that Obama is suddenly a moderate Republican? Is this a mere election-season pivot to the center, or do people actually believe that?

From my point of view, Obama is no moderate. He's a liberal Democrat with liberal policy preferences, who has been forced into centrist governance by circumstances (lack of a veto-proof liberal majority) rather than by any desire for moderation. Dennis Kucinich wouldn't be able to govern much further to the left, except perhaps on civil liberties.


Look at all the "I'm a Republican, but since ____ I'm voting for Obama" comments and contrast them with the "I'm a liberal and I'm pissed that Obama did/didn't do this, but he's still better than Romney" comments. 

If Obama leans to the left, he has a funny way of showing it.
The closest thing was the reluctant "okay maybe gays are people" announcement after Biden didn't hit any mines.
 
2012-10-09 01:54:58 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: If Obama leans to the left, he has a funny way of showing it.
The closest thing was the reluctant "okay maybe gays are people" announcement after Biden didn't hit any mines.


That's basically it. If there is any way in which Obama is even in the center, let alone actually left-leaning in any way, it's domestic social policies. His economic policies? Solidly conservative capitalist. Foreign policy? Conservative hawk.

The Republicans have successfully pushed the Overton window so far right that the Dems can just repackage the Republican platform from two presidential terms ago, put some social issue paint on it and sell it as "liberal". And liberals eat it up, because the fact of the matter is that most people in this country liberal or conservative, think things are basically fine.
 
2012-10-09 02:05:46 AM  

bdub77: Maybe you should answer the question on how you think Obama is a liberal?


I consider his actions as president, with a few exceptions (e.g. civil rights, drone policy) to be as liberal as he could practicably get away with.

I'm not comparing his governance to the ideal of liberalism (e.g. to exaggerate, comparing Obamacare to government-run health care, funded entirely by military cuts and higher income taxes), but how liberal some realistic legislation could be. Military cuts and higher income taxes weren't realistically available in 2009; Congress would never support them. So Obama had to do the best he could with the Congress he had.

There was no legislation that went through Congress but was too far to the left for Obama. He can only be considered a moderate if you compare him to idealistic liberal legislation that couldn't pass through Congress.

- Healthcare: took the plan conservatives in the 90s had touted. Cut Medicare costs while preserving benefits.

This was the most liberal health care reform that was available to him. If he had the votes for single payer, he clearly would have pursued that instead.

- Foreign policy: got out of only one war so far, killed Bin Laden in Pakistan, got involved in Libyan uprising.

Expansive government intrusion in foreign policy is pretty liberal - it's just that Republican foreign policy has become so aggressive that nobody remembers what conservative foreign policy looks like. Obama's a Wilsonian on foreign policy, just like his predecessors Bush and Clinton.

- Tax policy: kept taxes low his entire term, even lowered payroll taxes. Wants to let Bush's ridiculous policies expire in favor of Clinton-era (a centrist) taxes. Lowered taxes to small businesses on several occasions.

From my point of view, admittedly slanted, I don't see Obama as a guy who believes that lower taxes are helpful for the economy. I see these as provisional measures, designed to buy time before a 2013 tax hike.

- Energy: favors energy independence, has been in favor of oil drilling, coal, and natural gas as part of energy policy. Also favors clean energy because he believes it's a good investment for a number of reasons.

That's pretty standard for most liberal Democrats. Have any Democratic Senators advocated otherwise?

- Jobs policies: has been more favorable toward private sector jobs than public sector jobs.

How so? Almost all of the cuts to public sector jobs have been done at the state and local level - i.e. outside of Obama's purview. Federal government employment has remained steady since 2009, even as the private sector was losing millions of jobs. Where was the shared sacrifice?

Contrary to popular rhetoric, there has been no government takeover of healthcare. It's still an insurance market, with better overall outcomes.

I attribute this to a reticent Congress rather than any decision of Obama. By his own admission, he was unable to get the healthcare reform he wanted.

Face it, Obama's policies have favored the private sector and businesses in most ways. Those are centrist policies. And the Democratic party, along with the rest of the country, is continuing to shift right on policy. In many ways it has been forced to do so fiscally by the exploding debt and deficits which were mostly the result of GOP leaders and their overspending and undertaxing.

There's no evidence that I've seen of a Democrat saying "theoretically, this level of taxation is too high for me." The only limits on government expansion that Democrats abide by are the limits placed upon them externally, not by any internal desire for moderation.

The fact that the economy has been sluggish is 90% the fault of Bush and the European debt crisis. The housing bubble was a total disaster, one that Obama had no part in other than cleanup. The other 10% is the fault of GOP leadership, who have no interest in giving Obama a win on economics - they ate it hard in 1996 when Clinton's robust economy left them in the dust.

I don't blame Obama for the economy. It's 99% not his fault.
 
2012-10-09 02:07:45 AM  

A Dark Evil Omen: That's basically it. If there is any way in which Obama is even in the center, let alone actually left-leaning in any way, it's domestic social policies. His economic policies? Solidly conservative capitalist. Foreign policy? Conservative hawk.

The Republicans have successfully pushed the Overton window so far right that the Dems can just repackage the Republican platform from two presidential terms ago, put some social issue paint on it and sell it as "liberal". And liberals eat it up, because the fact of the matter is that most people in this country liberal or conservative, think things are basically fine.


No no no. I'm not comparing Obama's achievements to the vast possibilities of the ideological spectrum. I'm comparing Obama's achievements to all achievements that were theoretically possible for a president given the same political circumstances.
 
2012-10-09 02:08:15 AM  

Captain Dan: I don't think he has a secret socialist agenda, or any of that nonsense. He's a standard liberal Democrat. In terms of policy preferences, I consider him more-or-less interchangeable with John Kerry, Dick Durbin, Barbara Boxer, et al.

Maybe I'm wrong. If I am, then there should be some issues on which Obama deviates from his party. What are those issues? What are the issues on which Obama is further to the right than his Democratic colleagues in the Senate (or House, if we exclude Kucinich)?

Have any elected Democrats put forth an agenda which is to Obama's left? And are any parts of those agendas capable of being enacted, given the same circumstances that Obama had to deal with?


You're still making the argument that Obama is a liberal masquerading as a centrist, you're just not using the hyperbolic language that I used. When Obama has had the chance to take more progressive action without Congressional approval (such as trying bankers for malfeasance after the financial meltdown), he has still chosen a more centrist stance.

As far as a real liberal agenda, here is the Congressional Progressive Caucus Budget Proposal for 2012. This is far to the left of anything Obama has proposed. I would argue that it is far to the left of anything Obama would propose even if he had the votes to pass it.

Individual Income Tax Policies
• Allow the Bush-era tax cuts to expire at the end of 2012, but extend marriage relief, credits, and
incentives for children, families, and education
• Immediately rescind the upper-income tax cuts in December's tax deal
• Index the AMT for inflation for a decade (the AMT patch is fully paid for)
• Schakowsky millionaire tax rates proposal (adding 45%, 46%, 47%, 48%, and 49% top rates)
• Tax all capital gains and qualified dividends as ordinary income
• Progressive estate tax (Sanders' estate tax, repeal of Kyl-Lincoln)
• Limit the rate at which itemized deductions can reduce tax liability to 28%for high earners
• Replace the tax exclusion for interest on state and local bonds with a subsidy for the issuer

Corporate Tax Reform
• Tax U.S. corporate foreign income as it is earned
• Eliminate corporate welfare for oil, gas, and coal companies
• Enact a financial crisis responsibility fee
• Financial speculation tax (derivatives, foreign exchange)
• Reinstate Superfund taxes

Health Care
• Enact a public option
• Negotiate Rx payments with pharmaceutical companies
• CMS program integrity and other Medicare and Medicaid savings in the president's budget
• Prevent a cut in Medicare physician payments for a decade (maintain doc fix)

Social Security
• Raise the taxable maximum on the employee side to 90% of earnings and eliminate the taxable
maximum on the employer side
• Increase benefits based on higher contributions on the employee side

Defense Savings
• End overseas contingency operations emergency supplementals starting in Fiscal Year 2013,
providing $170 billion in FY2012 to fund redeployment, while saving more than $1.8 trillion
from current law spending levels over ten years
• Reduce baseline defense spending by reducing strategic capabilities, conventional forces,
procurement, and R&D programs

Comprehensive Jobs Program
• Invest $1.45 trillion in job creation, education, clean energy and broadband infrastructure,
housing, and R&D
• Infrastructure bank
• Surface transportation reauthorization bill ($213 billion)
 
2012-10-09 02:08:31 AM  
The fact is, the Democrats have become the defacto centrist party now, and actually do have policies that conservatives can agree on.

At this point, it's up to us to start a new party that's politically to the left of the Democrats.

Obvious tag drinks all night.
 
2012-10-09 02:10:35 AM  

Captain Dan: A Dark Evil Omen: That's basically it. If there is any way in which Obama is even in the center, let alone actually left-leaning in any way, it's domestic social policies. His economic policies? Solidly conservative capitalist. Foreign policy? Conservative hawk.

The Republicans have successfully pushed the Overton window so far right that the Dems can just repackage the Republican platform from two presidential terms ago, put some social issue paint on it and sell it as "liberal". And liberals eat it up, because the fact of the matter is that most people in this country liberal or conservative, think things are basically fine.

No no no. I'm not comparing Obama's achievements to the vast possibilities of the ideological spectrum. I'm comparing Obama's achievements to all achievements that were theoretically possible for a president given the same political circumstances.


Yes, I see that. And in four years the first Bush term will be the "possible achievements for a president given the same political circumstances". And so on and so on, repeat until death. Farking centrist liberals.
 
2012-10-09 02:11:13 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Look at all the "I'm a Republican, but since ____ I'm voting for Obama" comments and contrast them with the "I'm a liberal and I'm pissed that Obama did/didn't do this, but he's still better than Romney" comments. 


Most voters are pretty uninformed, so they see a centrist result and assume it sprang from a desire for centrism, rather than the inertia built into our political system.

If Obama leans to the left, he has a funny way of showing it. The closest thing was the reluctant "okay maybe gays are people" announcement after Biden didn't hit any mines.

Obama obviously supported gay marriage before 2008, but had to pretend otherwise because at that time it was politically toxic. He signaled this by claiming that his views on gay marriage were "evolving" - i.e. sorry, gay community, but Obama cares more about his re-election than he does about your civil rights.
 
2012-10-09 02:12:38 AM  

Captain Dan: Obama obviously supported gay marriage before 2008, but had to pretend otherwise because at that time it was politically toxic. He signaled this by claiming that his views on gay marriage were "evolving" - i.e. sorry, gay community, but Obama cares more about his re-election than he does about your civil rights.


um, derp?
 
2012-10-09 02:17:09 AM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: As far as a real liberal agenda, here is the Congressional Progressive Caucus Budget Proposal for 2012. This is far to the left of anything Obama has proposed. I would argue that it is far to the left of anything Obama would propose even if he had the votes to pass it.


This is an agenda that has no chance of passing through Congress. Even withstanding Republican opposition, there would be too many Democratic Blue Dog defectors for it to pass. So I don't consider this a practicable agenda.

Hypothetically, just for the sake of argument, if Obama had a veto-proof super majority in Congress (90 Democratic Senators, 375 Democratic Representatives), I think that he'd support most of that agenda.

/end hypothetical

But he doesn't have that Congress, so he has to make do with the circumstances he's been given.
 
2012-10-09 02:19:17 AM  

whidbey: Captain Dan: Obama obviously supported gay marriage before 2008, but had to pretend otherwise because at that time it was politically toxic. He signaled this by claiming that his views on gay marriage were "evolving" - i.e. sorry, gay community, but Obama cares more about his re-election than he does about your civil rights.

um, derp?


Would you rescind your knee-jerk dismissal if I gave you a link to a liberal saying the exact same thing?
 
2012-10-09 02:23:55 AM  

Captain Dan: whidbey: Captain Dan: Obama obviously supported gay marriage before 2008, but had to pretend otherwise because at that time it was politically toxic. He signaled this by claiming that his views on gay marriage were "evolving" - i.e. sorry, gay community, but Obama cares more about his re-election than he does about your civil rights.

um, derp?

Would you rescind your knee-jerk dismissal if I gave you a link to a liberal saying the exact same thing?


I have a huge problem with someone who doesn't even support Obama telling us liberals how he supposedly "really" acts politically. Nothing quite screams "concerned."
 
2012-10-09 02:28:24 AM  

Captain Dan: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: As far as a real liberal agenda, here is the Congressional Progressive Caucus Budget Proposal for 2012. This is far to the left of anything Obama has proposed. I would argue that it is far to the left of anything Obama would propose even if he had the votes to pass it.

This is an agenda that has no chance of passing through Congress. Even withstanding Republican opposition, there would be too many Democratic Blue Dog defectors for it to pass. So I don't consider this a practicable agenda.

Hypothetically, just for the sake of argument, if Obama had a veto-proof super majority in Congress (90 Democratic Senators, 375 Democratic Representatives), I think that he'd support most of that agenda.

/end hypothetical

But he doesn't have that Congress, so he has to make do with the circumstances he's been given.


Hypothetically, he might sign that budget even though it was too liberal for him (to use your reasoning).

The bottom line, though, is that you have no objective rationale for your belief, whereas many posters in this thread have provided example after example of Obama's moderate record.

So, I guess you're the only one who truly understands the real Barack Obama, secret liberal.
 
2012-10-09 02:33:42 AM  

whidbey: I have a huge problem with someone who doesn't even support Obama telling us liberals how he supposedly "really" acts politically. Nothing quite screams "concerned."


You have a problem with someone politically disagreeing with you? That's a bigger problem than I can solve.

As for "concerned" - the implication that I'm trolling - all I can say is that I've been straightforward about who I am: a moderate Republican who is voting for Romney. I'm voting for Romney because I think he's better suited for the job, not because I suffer some conspiratorial delusion about Obama (socialist, Kenyan, Muslim, etc. - the latter two wouldn't make any difference to my vote; I'd rather elect a Kenyan Muslim moderate Republican than an all-American socialist).
 
2012-10-09 02:39:32 AM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: The bottom line, though, is that you have no objective rationale for your belief, whereas many posters in this thread have provided example after example of Obama's moderate record.


I thought that I had. Let me reiterate.

Of all the various agendas that could have been enacted by a President, given the same circumstances that President Obama had, Obama has consistently chosen the most liberal option available.

There are some exceptions. Obama had room to go further left on civil rights, if he so desired. Drone policy too.

But on taxes? Social policy? The scope of government? He's consistently opted for the most liberal agenda that was capable of passing Congress.

So, I guess you're the only one who truly understands the real Barack Obama, secret liberal.

There are hundreds of elected liberals in the Congress. The difference between them and Obama is circumstance.
 
2012-10-09 02:41:48 AM  

Captain Dan: whidbey: I have a huge problem with someone who doesn't even support Obama telling us liberals how he supposedly "really" acts politically. Nothing quite screams "concerned."

You have a problem with someone politically disagreeing with you? That's a bigger problem than I can solve.


Not even mad. Just pointing out that you obviously can't stand the fact that the Obama administration will receive credit for supporting gay marriage that you have to concoct some series of events that somehow proves otherwise.

Petty, transparent bullsh*t.

I'm voting for Romney because I think he's better suited for the job,

Well, he isn't. He's whatever the Republican party stuffs into his mouth, he doesn't care a rip about the poor, and he wants to waste a bunch of money teaching Iran a lesson in American hegimony.

You're voting for the continued downfall of this country both economically and morally. Honestly, I wouldn't even be bragging.
 
2012-10-09 02:45:29 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.


I'm really not going to miss you after you slither away on November 7th when Obama wins big on the 6th.
 
2012-10-09 02:47:28 AM  

existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.


Take heart in knowing that your vote at least helped neutralize one rightard's vote.
 
2012-10-09 02:56:00 AM  
Vet that's not voting Obama.

But I guess I am just a racist, homophobic, extremist akin to some farking 3rd world Jihadist.

But what the fark would I know?
 
2012-10-09 03:02:42 AM  

whidbey: Not even mad. Just pointing out that you obviously can't stand the fact that the Obama administration will receive credit for supporting gay marriage that you have to concoct some series of events that somehow proves otherwise.


I don't mind if Obama gets credit for supporting gay marriage. He should. But he should have also supported it in 2008, instead of cynically pretending otherwise until he could safely endorse it.

He calculated that supporting gay marriage was politically harmful in 2008, but wasn't as harmful in 2012. He obviously cares more about re-election than about civil rights.

Well, he isn't. He's whatever the Republican party stuffs into his mouth, he doesn't care a rip about the poor, and he wants to waste a bunch of money teaching Iran a lesson in American hegemony.

Mitt Romney has said plenty that the Republican Party disagrees with (e.g. not supporting a larger tax cut). He donates an enormous amount to charity (helping the poor more than 99.9% of people ever will). And finally, he's indicated no desire to go to war with Iran. In fact, he's said the same thing about Iran that Obama has! ("All options are on the table.")

You're voting for the continued downfall of this country both economically and morally. Honestly, I wouldn't even be bragging.

This comment offers an intriguing view into your mind. Clearly, you think one of two things about me:

1) That I'm knowingly voting for a candidate who I think will lead to the downfall of America, because I am a supervillain.

2) That I am so naive that, despite my good intentions, I'm ignorantly voting for the supervillain candidate.

I hope you realize that intelligent people don't always agree, and that's especially true when it comes to politics. If you dehumanize your opponents into savages who yearn for the moral downfall of America, you're only hurting yourself - you're locking yourself inward, removed from half of your fellow Americans.
 
2012-10-09 03:03:10 AM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Barack Obama, secret liberal.


Totally stealing that.
 
2012-10-09 03:07:53 AM  

hubiestubert: As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that's the choice y ...


From your lips to God's ears.
 
2012-10-09 03:08:07 AM  

FloydA: simplicimus:

Honestly, you think anyone here doesn't understand the reference?

My expectations for the Politics tab are rather low. TBH, I'm impressed that half of these farknuggets understand that they should wipe when they poo.


Really? The discussion stays relatively civil and there are only a few partisan hacks which you get to recognize after a while. It's the best politics forum I know. The only comparable place is the Straight Dope.
 
2012-10-09 03:09:56 AM  

bdub77: Person on internet with political opinion: "I'm an idiot."

Me: "Yes you are. But good choice."


I reject this notion precisely because smarter people are more likely to hold it. You're insignificant in the world as a whole as well, are you going to off yourself? Our planet is insignificant in the universe as well, shall we bomb ourselves to oblivion?
 
2012-10-09 03:10:27 AM  
I won't vote Obama, but I can't bring myself to vote for the mystery bag of comic books known as Romney. I'm going to vote Johnson. I think that, as a conservative, I'll get more utility out of encouraging a third-party fiscally conservative candidate than vote for something that is unlikely to be a significant change from who we have now - not if you look at his history. Actions speak louder than words, and Romney is pretty damn close to Obama.
 
2012-10-09 03:11:25 AM  

I_C_Weener: Lifelong? "A moderate, Pressler voted for Obama in 2008". Huh.


No comments on how the "Lifelong Democrat" from the other thread probably hadn't voted for a Democrat since Clinton?

/Of course not, he's a hyper-partisan shill.
//Socially liberal but otherwise centre-right moderate who voted straight D for the first time in my life.
 
2012-10-09 03:15:38 AM  

Jolonco: Vet that's not voting Obama.

But I guess I am just a racist, homophobic, extremist akin to some farking 3rd world Jihadist.

But what the fark would I know?


I hope you enjoy the forthcoming cuts to the VA, GI Bill, and other Veterans Programs that will be forthcoming under a Romney administration.
 
2012-10-09 03:21:23 AM  

Ricardo Klement: I won't vote Obama, but I can't bring myself to vote for the mystery bag of comic books known as Romney. I'm going to vote Johnson. I think that, as a conservative, I'll get more utility out of encouraging a third-party fiscally conservative candidate than vote for something that is unlikely to be a significant change from who we have now - not if you look at his history. Actions speak louder than words, and Romney is pretty damn close to Obama.


There's no change in political utility unless you vote in Ohio or Florida. And even then, it's statistically nil.

If you vote your conscience, and feel better about yourself as a result, I suppose that's a utility gain, albeit unrelated to the election. You could probably get the same result by volunteering at a soup kitchen for an hour.
 
2012-10-09 03:31:19 AM  

Captain Dan: Ricardo Klement: I won't vote Obama, but I can't bring myself to vote for the mystery bag of comic books known as Romney. I'm going to vote Johnson. I think that, as a conservative, I'll get more utility out of encouraging a third-party fiscally conservative candidate than vote for something that is unlikely to be a significant change from who we have now - not if you look at his history. Actions speak louder than words, and Romney is pretty damn close to Obama.

There's no change in political utility unless you vote in Ohio or Florida. And even then, it's statistically nil.

If you vote your conscience, and feel better about yourself as a result, I suppose that's a utility gain, albeit unrelated to the election. You could probably get the same result by volunteering at a soup kitchen for an hour.


Except there's utility even if you don't win the election. Remember: earning 5% of the vote qualifies the party for federal election funds. That's tangible utility. If it means more fiscal conservatism, that's better, IMNSHO, than electing an Obama clone who just happens to have an (R) after his name.
 
2012-10-09 03:43:45 AM  

Ricardo Klement: Except there's utility even if you don't win the election. Remember: earning 5% of the vote qualifies the party for federal election funds. That's tangible utility.


Only if Johnson is within striking distance of 5%. I haven't looked at recent statewide polls, but that seems improbable.

If it means more fiscal conservatism, that's better, IMNSHO, than electing an Obama clone who just happens to have an (R) after his name.

I'm with you in preferring a conservative alternative to Romney (who is essentially a corporatist with few convictions), but I'm supporting Romney because he'll at least keep the Supreme Court from going to the left.
 
2012-10-09 03:50:58 AM  
Oooh, I hope I can use this as a way to share my CSB for today.

I got a FW: email from my parents (sent to everyone in their address book) talking about how Jane Fonda is evil and anti-American for protesting the Vietnam war and shiat, and that she has no right to represent Nancy Reagan in her new movie. I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France - that technically Fonda spent more time in a war zone than he ever did - and that to please research facts before sending me dumb emails.

I get a scathing response back for insulting the people that they [my parents] knew who died in Vietnam, and that Fonda only encouraged the death of more US Troops. I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him. Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic - that even if he didn't want to fight the war and if leaving the country was his 'form of expression against it' - it was a big FU to those who weren't fortunate enough to have wealthy parents and still had to serve. To this extent, him vying for control of the US military and with the GOP all too trigger-happy to start another war, is the same as Fonda, putting the lives of troops at stake, the lives of troops that he feels are beneath him and his wealth.

/haven't gotten a reply back yet.
 
2012-10-09 03:54:23 AM  

anwserman: /haven't gotten a reply back yet.


Did you show them the picture of Romney protesting for the Vietnam War? If not, do it do it do it.
 
2012-10-09 03:56:00 AM  

anwserman: Oooh, I hope I can use this as a way to share my CSB for today.

I got a FW: email from my parents (sent to everyone in their address book) talking about how Jane Fonda is evil and anti-American for protesting the Vietnam war and shiat, and that she has no right to represent Nancy Reagan in her new movie. I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France - that technically Fonda spent more time in a war zone than he ever did - and that to please research facts before sending me dumb emails.

I get a scathing response back for insulting the people that they [my parents] knew who died in Vietnam, and that Fonda only encouraged the death of more US Troops. I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him. Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic - that even if he didn't want to fight the war and if leaving the country was his 'form of expression against it' - it was a big FU to those who weren't fortunate enough to have wealthy parents and still had to serve. To this extent, him vying for control of the US military and with the GOP all too trigger-happy to start another war, is the same as Fonda, putting the lives of troops at stake, the lives of troops that he feels are beneath him and his wealth.

/haven't gotten a reply back yet.


I should also note that I also replied back stating how extremely fortunate I am to have a family that supported me through college and that I didn't need to choose military service as an option to further myself ahead in life. The main difference between myself and Romney is that I'm appreciative of my fortune vs. him.
 
2012-10-09 04:00:08 AM  

anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...


George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.
 
2012-10-09 04:11:38 AM  

hubiestubert: I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that's the choice you are faced with. If Snowe had run, and made it through the Primaries, I'd probably still be Republican, because I worked her campaign in college, and truly believe her to be a good choice. Good for the state of Maine, and good for the nation. But that wasn't in the cards, and more's the pity, because Snowe would have given this country what it needs: a strong Republican voice that is tempered with solid experience and solid leadership qualities, not just the glad handing and cheerleading that folks seem to want.


Hubie, you say this sort of thing a lot - and don't get me wrong, it's not tiresome! But forget about choosing the lesser evil - what platform would you like to see?
/ note that under Obama, government has shrunk
 
2012-10-09 04:18:46 AM  

Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.


To escape the draft because you're fortunate enough to leave the country and leave your peers behind? Bullshiat. There were millions of men who were drafted into the war, and many of them who died probably would be a lot better candidates than Mittens. Why must his wealth make him so special?
 
2012-10-09 04:35:39 AM  

anwserman: To escape the draft because you're fortunate enough to leave the country and leave your peers behind? Bullshiat. There were millions of men who were drafted into the war, and many of them who died probably would be a lot better candidates than Mittens. Why must his wealth make him so special?


I would do the same thing if I were him, and so would any person who felt that the war was unjust. Everyone knows someone who went to jail or fled the country rather than fight in the Vietnam War. Civil disobedience - following one's conscience instead of one's orders - is one of the great demonstrations of moral conviction.
 
2012-10-09 04:42:18 AM  

legalgus: hubiestubert: As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that' ...


PROFILE:
2012-09-28 23:46:02
plant city florida

so much fail. so little time.
 
2012-10-09 04:44:56 AM  
legalgus's reply to hubie, which was truncated above, which I was responding to: Another long winded liberal douchbag claiming to be a Republican. Only a true dyed in the wool idiot would fail to realize what a disaster we'd have with four more years of Obama.


/sigh
//sucks to be me failing harder than a troll
 
2012-10-09 04:45:04 AM  
But... ya know, wouldn't protesting Vietnam and escaping the draft only then to run for President years later be slightly hypocritical? Let's not lie, if Romney becomes President, there will be another war in the Middle East coming right up, either against Syria or Iran. So, how can it be acceptable that he flees military service only to later command it and possibly sentence others to their death?
 
2012-10-09 04:46:13 AM  

Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.


Your assumption is wrong.

4.bp.blogspot.com

Mitt is nothing like his father.
 
2012-10-09 04:48:02 AM  

Captain Dan: whidbey: Not even mad. Just pointing out that you obviously can't stand the fact that the Obama administration will receive credit for supporting gay marriage that you have to concoct some series of events that somehow proves otherwise.

I don't mind if Obama gets credit for supporting gay marriage. He should. But he should have also supported it in 2008, instead of cynically pretending otherwise until he could safely endorse it.

He calculated that supporting gay marriage was politically harmful in 2008, but wasn't as harmful in 2012. He obviously cares more about re-election than about civil rights.

Well, he isn't. He's whatever the Republican party stuffs into his mouth, he doesn't care a rip about the poor, and he wants to waste a bunch of money teaching Iran a lesson in American hegemony.

Mitt Romney has said plenty that the Republican Party disagrees with (e.g. not supporting a larger tax cut). He donates an enormous amount to charity (helping the poor more than 99.9% of people ever will). And finally, he's indicated no desire to go to war with Iran. In fact, he's said the same thing about Iran that Obama has! ("All options are on the table.")

You're voting for the continued downfall of this country both economically and morally. Honestly, I wouldn't even be bragging.

This comment offers an intriguing view into your mind. Clearly, you think one of two things about me:

1) That I'm knowingly voting for a candidate who I think will lead to the downfall of America, because I am a supervillain.

2) That I am so naive that, despite my good intentions, I'm ignorantly voting for the supervillain candidate.

I hope you realize that intelligent people don't always agree, and that's especially true when it comes to politics. If you dehumanize your opponents into savages who yearn for the moral downfall of America, you're only hurting yourself - you're locking yourself inward, removed from half of your fellow Americans.


Which Mitt Romney are you voting for? The liberal one who was governor of Massachusetts or the conservative one who shucked it all to run as a GOP candidate?
 
2012-10-09 04:51:53 AM  

Trapper439: Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.

Your assumption is wrong.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x878]

Mitt is nothing like his father.


Ok, Mitt's a douche now (not like he wasn't before). It's OK for others to die in a war he supports but not himself.
 
2012-10-09 04:52:19 AM  

Captain Dan: anwserman: To escape the draft because you're fortunate enough to leave the country and leave your peers behind? Bullshiat. There were millions of men who were drafted into the war, and many of them who died probably would be a lot better candidates than Mittens. Why must his wealth make him so special?

I would do the same thing if I were him, and so would any person who felt that the war was unjust. Everyone knows someone who went to jail or fled the country rather than fight in the Vietnam War. Civil disobedience - following one's conscience instead of one's orders - is one of the great demonstrations of moral conviction.


Mittens didn't believe the war was unjust.

i.dailymail.co.uk

A version of the story explaining the above photo, courtesy of the daily fail:

Preppy protester: The moment a 19-year-old Mitt Romney demonstrated in favour of Vietnam War draft
- Teenage Romney takes unpopular stance in favour of south-east Asian war
- But his status as 'Mormon missionary' exempted him from the draft
- Future GOP presidential candidate dressed in smart, preppy clothes
- Romney's father George was the Governor of Michigan at the time

"A newly-unearthed photograph showing Mitt Romney demonstrating in favour of the Vietnam War draft might leave the presidential candidate feeling somewhat embarrassed. The veteran Republican, then 19, can be seen picketing an anti-war sit-in at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, in 1966.... A newspaper clipping headlined 'Governor's son pickets the pickets' states: 'Mitt Romney, son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, was one of the pickets who supported the Stanford University administration in opposition to sit-in demonstrators.' ... Carey Coulter was one of the demonstrators alongside Mr Romney that day. He told BuzzFeed.com: 'We were there to get an education and these people holding the administration hostage was antithetical to that. 'Mitt walked up to me and said that he had some experience with the press, and that he would handle the press for me if I wanted him to. I said fine, because I was busy running the demonstration.


i.dailymail.co.uk

... His pro-war son, meanwhile, never served in south-east Asia because his status as a Mormon missionary exempted him from the draft. The GOP hopeful spent just one year at Stanford before heading to France for 30 months of missionary work. He had already met his future wife Ann in 1965 when he was 18 and she was 15. The couple married in 1969 and have five sons and 16 grandchildren...."

Again, an ex-Mormon over at Free Republic wrote how white Mormons were able to get the deferments, but black Mormons were barred and sent off the war because the Mormon Church never approved black Mormon men's applications for missionary exemptions.
 
2012-10-09 04:57:03 AM  

anwserman: But... ya know, wouldn't protesting Vietnam and escaping the draft only then to run for President years later be slightly hypocritical? Let's not lie, if Romney becomes President, there will be another war in the Middle East coming right up, either against Syria or Iran. So, how can it be acceptable that he flees military service only to later command it and possibly sentence others to their death?


War is something fought by mud people, the cursed, not by the Chosen.
And certainly not by the Prophesied White Horse

i8.photobucket.com
(demotivator courtesy of a fking Freeper)
 
2012-10-09 05:00:56 AM  

Trapper439: Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.

Your assumption is wrong.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x878]

Mitt is nothing like his father.


Sorry, dude. Didn't see your post before pulling up the Daily Mail version to post mine. Sorry about that :( Thank you for getting there first, to correct Dan's erroneous assumptions.
 
2012-10-09 05:04:37 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Trapper439: Captain Dan: anwserman: I send a reply back to them stating that their Presidential Candidate of Choice (Romney) evaded Vietnam by going to France... I responded back simply as a Presidential candidate, Romney's past would come back to haunt him... Him leaving the country on his parent's fortune was un-American and highly unpatriotic...

George Romney opposed the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s. I assume that Mitt did as well. Why would you expect Mitt to go fight in a war he didn't support? Because it might help him in a future presidential run?

It's not "unpatriotic" to not volunteer for army service - that's fascist talk.

Your assumption is wrong.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x878]

Mitt is nothing like his father.

Sorry, dude. Didn't see your post before pulling up the Daily Mail version to post mine. Sorry about that :( Thank you for getting there first, to correct Dan's erroneous assumptions.


You went the extra mile and actually provided the story behind the picture. Your post was much better than mine. Kudos to you.
 
2012-10-09 05:13:55 AM  
Also,

"white Mormons were able to get the deferments, but black Mormons were barred and sent off the war because the Mormon Church never approved black Mormon men's applications for missionary exemptions."

I'd never heard that before, thanks for pointing it out, ExperianScaresCthulhu.

That is just despicable. Mind you, the Mormons basically didn't recognise black people as equals until the 1980s, so it's hardly surprising.
 
2012-10-09 05:19:35 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu:
Mittens didn't believe the war was unjust.

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x495]


Heh. I suppose they get credit for not purging the old Romney articles after he receives the nomination.
I wonder if Fox News or the other more mainstream "news" outlets maintain them.
 
2012-10-09 05:37:53 AM  

fusillade762: I'm afraid the extreme wing will say that we weren't conservative enough.

You mean they're going to get even crazier?  I'm sorta terrified to wonder what that would consist of.


I'm more terrified of the democrats trying to meet these republicans halfway toward their new goalpost.
 
2012-10-09 05:41:10 AM  

Trapper439: Also,

"white Mormons were able to get the deferments, but black Mormons were barred and sent off the war because the Mormon Church never approved black Mormon men's applications for missionary exemptions."

I'd never heard that before, thanks for pointing it out, ExperianScaresCthulhu.

That is just despicable. Mind you, the Mormons basically didn't recognise black people as equals until the 1980s, so it's hardly surprising.


It's ExMo Freeper hearsay, so take it with a grain of salt.

- The Freeper Thread I first heard it from: Jabari Parker: Being Black and Mormonism: "As a white Mormon, Mitt Romney was given a draft deferment by his church (they were in charge of their own deferments, and would submit them to the draft board), a draft deferment forbidden to black Mormons. Black Mormons were not allowed Mormon draft deferments, they went to war."

(Of course, you gotta read the Black Mormon rebuttal beneath that same post ;) "... yes we were denied the priesthood bur the lord gave us the temples which every member of our faith at that time have received the endowments or the eternal priesthood so they will be able to obtain the celestial kingdom and exaltation ... " -- forgive me for having Deep South flashbacks. I'm hoping even Uncle Ruckus gives this fool the side eye. Somebody needs to do a prayer circle for these poor field knee grows happy to be field knee grows and maybe one day they'll be light and bright and white just like Massa ...

- Biased blogger's site also making the same claim: Why did Black Mormons have to get drafted for Vietnam, while White Mormons were given deferments?: "One of the convenient factors ignored by the ruling White Elite MEN of the Mormon high leadership, is that White Mormon Men, by having the priesthood, could claim Minister of Religion for a deferment from fighting in Vietnam. While if you were a Black Mormon man, there was no such deferment for them, since the Mormons consider blacks inferior, and withheld the priesthood from blacks. Without having the priesthood, Blacks were not eligible for Mormon draft deferments. There are enough stories on the internet of "individuals" who weren't even regular members of the Mormon church, sons of devout Mormons, but once they received a low draft number, all of a sudden, those white boys were qualified for Mormon deferments - all the while black Mormons had to fight and die as a PROXY for the White Mormon boys.Convenient, racist, but has the Mormon cult changed? Why are there no blacks that are rich enough, faithful enough, educated enough, to be included in the First Presidency, the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, or the Presiding Bishopric?"

-- and finally, courtesy of exmormon.org: Great article on Veterans Today about Mitt evading the draft...on topic. -- "Much as I enjoyed this, it seems to push a bit past the limits of what can be documented. That seems unnecessary because it's such an easy target. I'm especially glad they bring the racism in. I don't believe there were any Black Mormon young men getting deferments. They all had to fight. These statements make me nervous: "There are no Mormon facilities in France now nor have there ever been." What about churches, aren't they facilities? It wasn't until 1978 that the challenges to the Mormon Church as legitimate due to their racists policies was settled by the IRS allowing them the legal status of a religious organization. Prior to that, they had the same tax standing as the KKK." The link provided doesn't document the claim, and I don't think it is accurate. Romney is really vulnerable on this topic, so I just wish they were a little more careful. To me, it reads a little 'anti-Mormon'.

-- the rebuttal by another poster, same thread: "The point the journalist was making is that there were no mormon Divinity schools in France during Romney's service there. Also, France has officially declared mormonism to be a cult."

-- a third person parsing what it meant that blacks were never allowed deferments, but whites were, and WHY that happened, without passing judgement on the Mormon church: "While I think the label of "Chickenhawk" is applicable to Mitt, the man obviousley avoided military service while obviously being in support of the war. He definately took advantage of the deferrments available. The article is a little dependant on Wikipedia. The claim that the IRS entered into a deal with the church to allow blacks to recieve full fellowship, while certainly could have happened is not supported by evidence, at least that I know of.

The claim that Blacks were not allowed to be members, not quite accurate. Vietnam was before my time but it is my understanding that many Mormons chose Missionary service as a way to avoid Vietnam.They were classified as ministers and recieved a minesterial deferrment. I know alot of members used National Guard and reserve service as a way to avoid the draft also. I liked the quotes on the "Curse of Cain" though. Those always are great because they let the leadership speak for themselves."


---- The article the above exmormon.org thread is referring to: Veteran's Today Military and Foreign Affairs Journal: Romney's "Mormon" Draft Deferment Not Legal -- Draft Dodger Demonstrated for Vietnam Draft then Ran to France, by Gordon Duff, Senior Editor ...Here, from Yahoo, is the entire list of draft deferments. Voluntary service as a "missionary" or helping the homeless or raking lawns aren't on the list:... There is no record of Romney filing for conscientious objector status. His photo ops riding around on a bicycle asking the French if they wanted free English lessons, what he actually did while there, is hardly divinity study....There are no Mormon facilities in France now nor have there ever been. It wasn't until 2009 that Mormonism applied to be registered as an established religion in France.

In 2006, the Mormon church came under investigation for its policies toward women and children which are inconsistent with French law. ...Unwanted by the French, facing a war he seemed so dedicated to see others fight, there he sat in France, we are told not enjoying wine or sex, 30 months outside the United States during wartime with no imaginable rationale for failing to serve his nation. With a father that was a close friend of the president, do you imagine he felt the rules didn't apply to him?

If there are any doubts, Romney could have volunteered for missionary work, something not covered by deferment. He took a college deferment, attended for as short time, left Stanford for some unknown reason, should have been drafted the day Stanford sent in the report to the draft required by law....



but wait, there's more.... 



Anyway, all that to say: REAL REPUBLICANS DON'T VOTE ROMNEY
 
2012-10-09 05:54:20 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: ExperianScaresCthulhu:
Mittens didn't believe the war was unjust.

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x495]


Heh. I suppose they get credit for not purging the old Romney articles after he receives the nomination.
I wonder if Fox News or the other more mainstream "news" outlets maintain them.


Why purge it, when people have already shown they'll believe the sky is green if they want to hear the sky is green.
 
2012-10-09 06:00:46 AM  

Jolonco: Vet that's not voting Obama.

But I guess I am just a racist, homophobic, extremist akin to some farking 3rd world Jihadist.

But what the fark would I know?


Isn't making up bullshiat to justify your position fun?

Have fun supporting someone who dodged the draft that wants to send kids to war at the drop of a hat.
 
x23
2012-10-09 06:19:53 AM  

Captain Dan: He donates an enormous amount to charity


correction : he donates an enormous amount to the Mormon church. i don't consider building a shopping mall a particularly charitable act.
 
2012-10-09 06:24:03 AM  

x23: Captain Dan: He donates an enormous amount to charity

correction : he donates an enormous amount to the Mormon church. i don't consider building a shopping mall a particularly charitable act.


It's charity, like riding bicycles while asking folks if they want free english lessons is missionary work.
 
2012-10-09 06:26:42 AM  

x23: correction : he donates an enormous amount to the Mormon church. i don't consider building a shopping mall a particularly charitable act.


Honestly, given how much they put into Prop 8, I'd consider donating to the Mormon Church to be an act of anti-charity.
 
2012-10-09 07:56:47 AM  

hubiestubert: As a Republican, I voted for Obama last time around.

The party refused to do the thinking that should have gone into wondering how McCain lost, and so badly. It then doubled down on the very idiocy that turned the national arena against him, and bolstered candidates who are not just poor for their districts, but poor for the nation, and then lionized them for their obfuscation and obstructionism.

It disgusted me so, that after the Primary, I changed my registration. I did so, because the party no longer serves the ideals that brought me to her. And that was a life long Republican. After more than 20 years. Mind you, that life long Republicanism has been with caveats. I have never held with idea of voting strictly for a party candidate. You vote for the person you think will best do the job. In some cases, that was a Democrat, in some cases that was an independent candidate, and in some cases it was the Republican, but that means actually looking down the slate, and looking at the positions and the candidates themselves. Over the years, I kept my party membership, in many races, just to vote against candidates in Primaries who were NOT fit for service. In this case, I was glad to cast a vote against Romney, and I was saddened that Johnson wasn't on the ticket, because while I don't agree with the man on many economic issues, he is far more sane a candidate and far more ideologically appealing to me than Mittens will ever be. Then again, I have despised Romney since his involvement with the UMaine system from those college days, and perhaps my antipathy for him has held true over the years, but for a man who has been essentially running for this office for six years now, there's a LOT to dislike the man for.

I will be voting for Obama again. Plain and true. I'd like a better candidate than either Romney or Obama, but of the folks running this time around, I think that Obama will do the least damage to the nation and to the office. And sometimes, that's the choice y ...


Good for you sir. You have made similar comments in the past regarding how you left the Republican Party and yet, I have not seeing a single fark troll ever call you up on it. All they do is spout their talking points about how left bad, right good etc. The left is the enemy of this country and so on and so on but I would think a troll would be more upset if one of their 'own' left the GOP. I mean what is more treasonous than that to them? And yet, not one comment about you (or other fark members that have also left the GOP) to condemn you. Not one comment asking why? Not one statement telling you that you are using the 'wrong' reasons for leaving the GOP.
 
2012-10-09 07:57:02 AM  

DrowningLessons: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

I'd like to see a better poll than that. I know it's anecdotal, but every single military person I know despises Mitt Romney. Actually, that's not true -- I know one or two that don't despise him. They're still voting for President Obama, though.


I can't speak for all of us, but the two veterans that live in my house can't stand him either.
 
2012-10-09 08:52:34 AM  
Nothing new here.
 
2012-10-09 09:26:12 AM  

existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.


me too but i'm in LA. same difference. i will however have the personal satisfaction of registering my opinion.
 
2012-10-09 09:35:37 AM  

whidbey: The fact is, the Democrats have become the defacto centrist party now, and actually do have policies that conservatives can agree on.

At this point, it's up to us to start a new party that's politically to the left of the Democrats.

Obvious tag drinks all night.


I would love to see enacted the legal changes necessary to allow more than two truly viable political parties coupled with instant run-off voting. I think some non-governmental organization will have to write the legislation, then sell both the Democrats and Republicans the idea that it will benefit their party to the exclusion of the other to get that legislation submitted and passed. Obviously, that will be easier said than done. Still I haven't given up on the notion. Just because I haven't figured out how to get it done, doesn't mean that there isn't someone else out there, someone far smarter than me, who can reason out a way to accomplish that task.

One of the greatest benefits to the Democratic party would, I think, be the existence of an actual Socialist Party on the ballot. Then, people who have no idea what socialism is would not be able to call the Democrats socialists.

A benefit to the Republican party would be that actual socialists would vote for the Socialist party or the Green Party rather than the Democrats.
 
2012-10-09 09:57:39 AM  

existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.


Myself, although I live in Louisiana and it's a pretty solid red state except for Orleans Parish and maybe a district in the Lafayette area, on occasion. It's weird with veterans sometimes, my grandfather was a naval officer in WWII, and he votes Democrat a lot, but my dad, who was a petty officer, is pretty hardcore Republican. A good friend that I have known since high school and is about to retire from active duty Army, Republican.

/ 19 Kilo, why walk into battle when you can ride
// both parties treat vets pretty shamefully
 
2012-10-09 10:00:29 AM  

Towermonkey: existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.

Myself, although I live in Louisiana and it's a pretty solid red state except for Orleans Parish and maybe a district in the Lafayette area, on occasion. It's weird with veterans sometimes, my grandfather was a naval officer in WWII, and he votes Democrat a lot, but my dad, who was a petty officer, is pretty hardcore Republican. A good friend that I have known since high school and is about to retire from active duty Army, Republican.

/ 19 Kilo, why walk into battle when you can ride
// both parties treat vets pretty shamefully


Both parties treat active duty personnel pretty shamefully. If this nation had real respect for our people in the military, war/military engagements would be almost unheard of. They should be well trained and rarely, if ever, used.
 
2012-10-09 10:04:13 AM  

Lunaville: Towermonkey: existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.

Myself, although I live in Louisiana and it's a pretty solid red state except for Orleans Parish and maybe a district in the Lafayette area, on occasion. It's weird with veterans sometimes, my grandfather was a naval officer in WWII, and he votes Democrat a lot, but my dad, who was a petty officer, is pretty hardcore Republican. A good friend that I have known since high school and is about to retire from active duty Army, Republican.

/ 19 Kilo, why walk into battle when you can ride
// both parties treat vets pretty shamefully

Both parties treat active duty personnel pretty shamefully. If this nation had real respect for our people in the military, war/military engagements would be almost unheard of. They should be well trained and rarely, if ever, used.


No argument from me. My little brother is still not quite right after a couple tours in Iraq and I suspect he may never be.
 
2012-10-09 10:15:14 AM  

Towermonkey: Lunaville: Towermonkey: existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.

Myself, although I live in Louisiana and it's a pretty solid red state except for Orleans Parish and maybe a district in the Lafayette area, on occasion. It's weird with veterans sometimes, my grandfather was a naval officer in WWII, and he votes Democrat a lot, but my dad, who was a petty officer, is pretty hardcore Republican. A good friend that I have known since high school and is about to retire from active duty Army, Republican.

/ 19 Kilo, why walk into battle when you can ride
// both parties treat vets pretty shamefully

Both parties treat active duty personnel pretty shamefully. If this nation had real respect for our people in the military, war/military engagements would be almost unheard of. They should be well trained and rarely, if ever, used.

No argument from me. My little brother is still not quite right after a couple tours in Iraq and I suspect he may never be.


I'm so sorry. Is there any existing intervention that might promote his healing? If he lacks access to proper care, do you think some group like IVAW or the local Friends meeting might be able to help?

There are Friends meetings in Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Even if they don't have a standing committee dedicated to such work, if there is someone within the meeting that possesses the knowledge and skill sets necessary to be of assistance, that individual may agree to help your brother. Of course, there is no guarantee that there will be any members with the requisite knowledge and skills.

I feel like a fount of nothing in terms of information. Also, I worry I have given you some useless suggestions. I wish I could be helpful.
 
2012-10-09 10:42:11 AM  

Lunaville: Towermonkey: Lunaville: Towermonkey: existentist: Veteran. Voting Obama again. Won't matter though. I'm in Texas.

Myself, although I live in Louisiana and it's a pretty solid red state except for Orleans Parish and maybe a district in the Lafayette area, on occasion. It's weird with veterans sometimes, my grandfather was a naval officer in WWII, and he votes Democrat a lot, but my dad, who was a petty officer, is pretty hardcore Republican. A good friend that I have known since high school and is about to retire from active duty Army, Republican.

/ 19 Kilo, why walk into battle when you can ride
// both parties treat vets pretty shamefully

Both parties treat active duty personnel pretty shamefully. If this nation had real respect for our people in the military, war/military engagements would be almost unheard of. They should be well trained and rarely, if ever, used.

No argument from me. My little brother is still not quite right after a couple tours in Iraq and I suspect he may never be.

I'm so sorry. Is there any existing intervention that might promote his healing? If he lacks access to proper care, do you think some group like IVAW or the local Friends meeting might be able to help?

There are Friends meetings in Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Even if they don't have a standing committee dedicated to such work, if there is someone within the meeting that possesses the knowledge and skill sets necessary to be of assistance, that individual may agree to help your brother. Of course, there is no guarantee that there will be any members with the requisite knowledge and skills.

I feel like a fount of nothing in terms of information. Also, I worry I have given you some useless suggestions. I wish I could be helpful.


Don't feel bad. He's ok probably 95% of the time, and he has a good set of wife-and-kids for the other 5%. Our dad saw some action in Vietnam, and our grandfather late in WWII and very early in Korea, so they help a lot. And he's gotten much better in the 6-7 years he's been out.

Thank you for your kind comments, not something I expect in the Politics tab, but it is most welcome.
 
2012-10-09 11:00:51 AM  
two can play at that game: Why, I, a lifelong Republican moderate who realized he was really a Democrat 4 years ago, am voting for Obama again 

Corrected for accuracy.
 
2012-10-09 12:09:28 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie


Look how stupid you are

"The Military Times Poll is a secure email survey of active-duty, National Guard and reserve members who are subscribers to the Military Times newspapers... This population is older and more senior than the military population at large,

Subscribers to the Military Times are not "veterans," nor are they representative of "the military" as a whole
 
2012-10-09 12:15:15 PM  

legalgus: Derp derp derp derp STUPID DOUCHEBAG LIBS derp derp derp


Account created: 2012-09-28 23:46:02

Oh joy, another freshly minted shiatposting Alt.

pictat.com
 
2012-10-09 12:24:38 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: His pro-war son, meanwhile, never served in south-east Asia because his status as a Mormon missionary exempted him from the draft. The GOP hopeful spent just one year at Stanford before heading to France for 30 months of missionary work.


i865.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-09 01:06:16 PM  
I'm sorry, but if one of your reasons is 'my folks weren't mentioned in a speech! waaa!', then you really don't have a good argument.

/When did Support The Troops turn into some kind of required quota of time talking about them?
//Seriously. It's getting creepy.
 
2012-10-09 01:10:55 PM  

Fart_Machine: legalgus: Another long winded liberal douchbag claiming to be a Republican. Only a true dyed in the wool idiot would fail to realize what a disaster we'd have with four more years of Obama.

Account created: 2012-09-28 23:46:02

Another troll alt.

Ploink.


From Plant City, FL
You know how the whole country makes fun of Florida? Floridians make fun of Plant City. Must be something in the water there.
 
2012-10-09 07:50:56 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: DrowningLessons: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: the veterans are offended by Romney.

Reality: Military favors Romney 2:1

oopsie.

explains the shenanigans about getting ballots to the military.

I'd like to see a better poll than that. I know it's anecdotal, but every single military person I know despises Mitt Romney. Actually, that's not true -- I know one or two that don't despise him. They're still voting for President Obama, though.

weird huh, that people you hang out with and know have similar viewpoints than you have.

every military person and veteran I know are voting Romney.


Just because you live in uneducated hillbilly country does not mean all vets do.
 
2012-10-09 11:23:51 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Captain Dan: I don't think he has a secret socialist agenda, or any of that nonsense. He's a standard liberal Democrat. In terms of policy preferences, I consider him more-or-less interchangeable with John Kerry, Dick Durbin, Barbara Boxer, et al.

Maybe I'm wrong. If I am, then there should be some issues on which Obama deviates from his party. What are those issues? What are the issues on which Obama is further to the right than his Democratic colleagues in the Senate (or House, if we exclude Kucinich)?

Have any elected Democrats put forth an agenda which is to Obama's left? And are any parts of those agendas capable of being enacted, given the same circumstances that Obama had to deal with?

You're still making the argument that Obama is a liberal masquerading as a centrist, you're just not using the hyperbolic language that I used. When Obama has had the chance to take more progressive action without Congressional approval (such as trying bankers for malfeasance after the financial meltdown), he has still chosen a more centrist stance.

As far as a real liberal agenda, here is the Congressional Progressive Caucus Budget Proposal for 2012. This is far to the left of anything Obama has proposed. I would argue that it is far to the left of anything Obama would propose even if he had the votes to pass it.

Individual Income Tax Policies
• Allow the Bush-era tax cuts to expire at the end of 2012, but extend marriage relief, credits, and
incentives for children, families, and education
• Immediately rescind the upper-income tax cuts in December's tax deal
• Index the AMT for inflation for a decade (the AMT patch is fully paid for)
• Schakowsky millionaire tax rates proposal (adding 45%, 46%, 47%, 48%, and 49% top rates)
• Tax all capital gains and qualified dividends as ordinary income
• Progressive estate tax (Sanders' estate tax, repeal of Kyl-Lincoln)
• Limit the rate at which itemized deductions can reduce tax liability to 28%for high earners
• Replace the tax ex ...


This would be so awesome *sigh*
 
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