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(Discover)   SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket lost an engine on its way to orbit, still managed to get Dragon capsule on its way to ISS   (blogs.discovermagazine.com) divider line 85
    More: Cool, International Space Station, Dragon capsules, motive powers, space rendezvous, telemetry, orbits, space capsules, hurling  
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5241 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Oct 2012 at 3:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-08 11:59:58 AM  
Elasticity and flexibility of design equals waste.
 
2012-10-08 12:37:47 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Elasticity and flexibility of design equals waste.


Which, in this case, would have wasted the payload.
 
2012-10-08 12:57:59 PM  

Donnchadha: dj_spanmaster: Elasticity and flexibility of design equals waste.

Which, in this case, would have wasted the payload.


Just pointing out, efficiency is not always best.
 
2012-10-08 03:33:12 PM  
I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans
 
2012-10-08 03:41:30 PM  
I think its awesome that they build it to handle errors the way they do.
 
2012-10-08 03:42:07 PM  
The old saying: Why have one when you can have two for twice the price?

Not always as dumb as it sounds.
 
2012-10-08 03:43:44 PM  
I am amazed and happy at this, but damn if that headline doesn't sound like a line from Speed Racer.



Quickly! We must launch the Dragon Capsule on the SpaceX Falcon 9!

www.chud.com 

/shameless hotlink.
 
2012-10-08 03:50:42 PM  
But the secondary satellite payload did not make it to the proper orbit. Not sure how that mission is affected - depends on how far off and how critical the orbit placement is to the mission.
 
2012-10-08 03:53:05 PM  
You can tell who the engineers aren't by finding those who are either (1) amazed that part of it broke and they still managed to get it to orbit or (2) wondering why an MBA hasn't stepped in and found the obvious cost savings.

/farking requirements, how do they work?
 
2012-10-08 03:53:33 PM  

skycruiser-x: But the secondary satellite payload did not make it to the proper orbit. Not sure how that mission is affected - depends on how far off and how critical the orbit placement is to the mission.


Sounds like Orbcomm is going to be very angry at spaceX about that, but it's not NASAs problem.
 
2012-10-08 03:56:22 PM  

PirateKing: I am amazed and happy at this, but damn if that headline doesn't sound like a line from Speed Racer.



Quickly! We must launch the Dragon Capsule on the SpaceX Falcon 9!

[www.chud.com image 500x333] 

/shameless hotlink.


farm3.static.flickr.com

I have destroyed the engine on your SpaceX Falcon 9 Dragon Capsule rocket.
 
2012-10-08 03:56:39 PM  
Had I been aboard that ride, there wouldn't be a shopvac made that could have cleaned up the mess I'd make from shaitting myself.
 
2012-10-08 04:00:54 PM  

DivorceWar Veteran: Had I been aboard that ride, there wouldn't be a shopvac made that could have cleaned up the mess I'd make from shaitting myself.


That's ok. Astronauts wear diapers.

Id worry more about having enough wetnaps...
 
2012-10-08 04:01:19 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Elasticity and flexibility of design equals waste.


No, an efficient and redundant design compensates for problems and accomplishes the mission. Since there are no spare engines being hauled along, no extra fuel required, etc., there is no waste involved.
 
2012-10-08 04:04:11 PM  
Finders keepers!
 
2012-10-08 04:14:51 PM  
The astronauts must've spilled soda on it.
 
2012-10-08 04:19:45 PM  
I didn't know glock made rocket engines.
 
2012-10-08 04:21:33 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Donnchadha: dj_spanmaster: Elasticity and flexibility of design equals waste.

Which, in this case, would have wasted the payload.

Just pointing out, efficiency is not always best.


Efficiency is when everything has a purpose. Having work and protect systems and redundant hardware is the entire point of some industries. Waste are things that have no purpose.

I bet you're real glad that your ISP had peers that sit idle 99% of the time. Because that 1% justifies the cost.
 
2012-10-08 04:23:42 PM  
I am pleased they made it to orbit, and that the design is meant to recover from failures.

I still wouldn't paint a picture of an engine falling apart as a good day, yeah, did what it was supposed to do.

It wasn't as bad as it might have been, but it wasn't good either.

How does this loss effect the man rating of this engine? Was this engine and vehicle supposed to be man rated?
 
2012-10-08 04:27:11 PM  

Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans


How so? What does it achieve? For which humans?
 
2012-10-08 04:34:11 PM  
Okay...

...if by "lost" you mean "exploded and fell off in flaming chunks". This is not your benign early-engine-shutdown-due-to-faulty-sensor that you remember from the Space Shuttle era. (Though in fairness, it's not your Challenger fireball either.)

Kudos on the redundancy and fault tolerance, but they've still got a ways to go for that man rating.
 
2012-10-08 04:36:09 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans

How so? What does it achieve? For which humans?


Oh, nothing really. For anyone.
 
2012-10-08 04:37:16 PM  

Temporarily Qualmless: ...if by "lost" you mean "exploded and fell off in flaming chunks". This is not your benign early-engine-shutdown-due-to-faulty-sensor that you remember from the Space Shuttle era. (Though in fairness, it's not your Challenger fireball either.)


Apparently it might be. It may be the case that a) computer shut it down but then b) fairing fell apart due to aerodynamics involved and that along with future flights have different fairings arranged in different arrangement to reduce atmospheric pressure may place it on a par with Shuttle and Apollo shutdowns.

But I agree, I would not be jumping up and down and saying this proves the design.
 
2012-10-08 04:37:57 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans

How so? What does it achieve? For which humans?


I imagine some contractors benefited from the program immensely.

/Additionally, it was a nice experiment on the stresses of space on man & machinery. But it's sort of hard to get into on a web forum such as this.
 
2012-10-08 04:41:20 PM  
I was wondering what I was seeing on the video of the second stage. The engine bell is glowing red, the vernier nozzle is occasionally ticking and flicking a little. And there is something dripping slowly off the back of the spacecraft, past the engine, dripping like tarry ketchup. What was that?
 
2012-10-08 04:45:27 PM  

GleeUnit: Quantum Apostrophe: Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans

How so? What does it achieve? For which humans?

Oh, nothing really. For anyone.


That reads like a condo brochure. Not too much substance. It looks like any web page for any company or university tooting its own horn. None of those items on that list requires space or free fall, sorry. More PR nonsense for a lost cause. And why can't these experiments be performed by automated units? No ISS required, no people required.

But that's not grandiose and romantic, is it.
 
2012-10-08 04:49:10 PM  

DivorceWar Veteran: Had I been aboard that ride, there wouldn't be a shopvac made that could have cleaned up the mess I'd make from shaitting myself.


Two Apollo shots lost engines during take off. One was unmanned, the other was Apollo 13. The engine shutdown itself had to be Pucker Factor 14, but when the O2 tank blew, I don't think they make a hydraulic ram strong enough to make me unclench.
 
2012-10-08 04:51:50 PM  
Watched it from about 10 miles south last night; wondered what the hell that flash was. Went into a thin cloud layer so couldn't see anything beyond pure orange light, but it was noticeable.

/I feel I've contributed greatly to this thread.
 
2012-10-08 04:58:00 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans

How so? What does it achieve? For which humans?


Since the Dragon is carrying up freezers and returning with Blood samples (among other things), I'd say the ISS is currently benefiting humans involved with biomedical research.
 
2012-10-08 05:04:43 PM  

OnlyM3: I didn't know glock made rocket engines.


Are one out of nine Glocks BFS/OBF? Anyway, I thought Ford made the Falcon.
 
2012-10-08 05:07:58 PM  
img526.imageshack.us
 
2012-10-08 05:13:00 PM  

way south: Quantum Apostrophe: Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans

How so? What does it achieve? For which humans?

Since the Dragon is carrying up freezers and returning with Blood samples (among other things), I'd say the ISS is currently benefiting humans involved with biomedical research.


Yeah, but we won't being living on Mars next Tuesday, so it's useless. /QA
 
2012-10-08 05:17:47 PM  

fluffy2097: skycruiser-x: But the secondary satellite payload did not make it to the proper orbit. Not sure how that mission is affected - depends on how far off and how critical the orbit placement is to the mission.

Sounds like Orbcomm is going to be very angry at spaceX about that, but it's not NASAs problem.


Maybe they should buy their own rocket to launch that on then....

Also, shiat happens, keep launching (but try to figure out why the engine cut out)
 
2012-10-08 05:45:59 PM  

Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans


So is toilet paper - only it's much more useful.
 
2012-10-08 05:49:15 PM  
Lost an engine and kept on kicking...nice. If it had been NASA, it would have shat itself and exploded on launch and resulted in a 5 year program grounding while they investigated the manufacturing of the scapegoat torx screw.
 
2012-10-08 05:50:26 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans

So is toilet paper - only it's much more useful.


Hey, the ISS is great as an excuse for privatized space initiatives like this one.

Probably not what they intended, but hey...
 
2012-10-08 05:54:47 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans

So is toilet paper - only it's much more useful.

Hey, the ISS is great as an excuse for privatized space initiatives like this one.

Probably not what they intended, but hey...


true - without NASA's abject failure to advance manned space exploration Space X probably wouldn't exist.
 
2012-10-08 06:02:29 PM  
Its going to be carrying astronauts soon, so that is kind of scary.
 
2012-10-08 06:14:35 PM  

Riotboy: I'm glad it made it.

/the ISS is a achievement for humans


/so is an grammar
 
2012-10-08 06:15:42 PM  

way south: Since the Dragon is carrying up freezers and returning with Blood samples (among other things), I'd say the ISS is currently benefiting humans involved with biomedical research.


Vital research, I'm sure.

Contrabulous Flabtraption: true - without NASA's abject failure to advance manned space exploration Space X probably wouldn't exist.


Yes yes. I assume the laws of physics and practical engineering will be repealed soon.
 
2012-10-08 06:23:19 PM  
Programmer.

Not a physicist.

Trying to imagine programming to the requirements of PHYSICS. Mind asplode.

Trying to imagine programming to the requirements of PHYSICS, and getting it right. *meltdown*

I salute that programmer, and all who do such tasks. I am a mote in your shadow.
 
2012-10-08 06:40:56 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Lost an engine and kept on kicking...nice. If it had been NASA, it would have shat itself and exploded on launch and resulted in a 5 year program grounding while they investigated the manufacturing of the scapegoat torx screw.


FTFA: "Like the Saturn V, which experienced engine loss on two flights, Falcon 9 is designed to handle an engine out situation and still complete its mission."

Just sayin'.
 
2012-10-08 06:42:02 PM  

OnlyM3: I didn't know glock made rocket engines.


I was going to go with the Kalashnikov.
 
2012-10-08 06:44:49 PM  
SpaceX is totally hiring.

Here
 
2012-10-08 06:48:43 PM  
That and I'm guessing that the complainers of cost and budget have never heard of having a choice of either single string or redundant systems.

Which is as Aerospace as Aerospace could possibly be. And built into the paperwork far, far before anything physical is built.

/Satellite guidance, navigation and control componentry for six years
//We sold the guidance for the Chandra Observatory
///Was the incoming contracts manager
 
2012-10-08 06:51:27 PM  

scarmig: Programmer.

Not a physicist.

Trying to imagine programming to the requirements of PHYSICS. Mind asplode.

Trying to imagine programming to the requirements of PHYSICS, and getting it right. *meltdown*

I salute that programmer, and all who do such tasks. I am a mote in your shadow.


My kid does this in his sleep and he hasn't even graduated yet. In the spring, Software Engineering, OSU.
 
2012-10-08 06:52:29 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Donnchadha: dj_spanmaster: Elasticity and flexibility of design equals waste.

Which, in this case, would have wasted the payload.

Just pointing out, efficiency is not always best.


This is why scientists are not the ideal people to direct the flow of progress. They'll min-max everything until you get a situation like the Mars landers where one little blooper in the production process means that now we can't search for life with the drill, even if we find it.
 
2012-10-08 07:05:38 PM  
I hope they find and fix the problem. I really, really, really, really, really, really, WANT SpaceX to succeed...
 
2012-10-08 07:12:26 PM  

mark12A: I hope they find and fix the problem. I really, really, really, really, really, really, WANT SpaceX to succeed...


I expect they will.

Things like this are exactly why newer rocket designs are using a shiat-ton of engines instead of just two or three. Lose one engine on a Delta IV Heavy and you've just lost 33% of your thrust and that payload ain't reaching orbit. Lose one engine out of nine on a Falcon 9, well, there's worse problems to have.

A bunch of smaller engines also tends to be cheaper than just a few big ones- the engines themselves are cheaper due to economies of scale and you can size the launch system to the payload- more weight, use more engines.
 
2012-10-08 07:39:56 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Elasticity and flexibility of design equals waste.


There is something to be said for redundancy.

Losing the payload on route would have been worse.
 
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