If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Salon)   President Obama's debate performance will soon be overshadowed by Joe "Wild Card" Biden, who might just be able to bring the campaign back where it belongs   (salon.com) divider line 176
    More: Hero, President Obama, Joe Biden, human beings, Lloyd Bentsen, Neil Kinnock, vice presidents, Dan Quayle  
•       •       •

3001 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Oct 2012 at 10:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



176 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-10-08 11:37:37 AM

Cletus C.: The fact is, Ryan is much younger, a fitness freak and the macho animal killer guy. Biden likes to come across as the tough guy but Ryan should kick his butt.

The debate will be in an octagon, won't it?


All Ryan has to do is show off his abs and the women will vote for him.
 
2012-10-08 11:37:50 AM

LesterB: Wicked Chinchilla: t3knomanser: Wicked Chinchilla: It really blindsided Obama.

To be fair, Obama prepared to debate the positions Romney had advocated during most of his campaign. He wasn't prepared for Romney to essentially steal Obama's positions, add in a bullet-pointed list, and throw in a layer of, "I can cut taxes better than him."

Oh, I fully realize that. My question is how, in fact, DO you respond to that effectively? I mean, its such a lie people who actually know the policy positions were all saying "who the fark is this guy and where did you put Mitt Romney?" You wouldn't think an adequate response would even be necessary since its so obviously ridiculous. But yet, here we are.

[imageshack.us image 650x436]


Wow that is some ownage. Newt should STFU.

Politicians who regularly switch positions to suit them and party are a disgrace to humanity.

Romney is a case in point.
 
2012-10-08 11:38:58 AM

SithLord: Cletus C.: The fact is, Ryan is much younger, a fitness freak and the macho animal killer guy. Biden likes to come across as the tough guy but Ryan should kick his butt.

The debate will be in an octagon, won't it?

All Ryan has to do is show off his abs and the women will vote for him.


Honestly, he just has to wear suits that fit him and it would improve his odds.
/why does he always wear suits that are too big?
 
2012-10-08 11:39:32 AM

bdub77: Politicians who regularly switch positions to suit them and party are a disgrace to humanity


I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a politician switching positions. We would hope that with time and experience, they learn things and change their stance on issues. The world around us also changes, and a stance that makes sense today might not make sense tomorrow.

However, there's a very clear and well marked line between "changing stances" and "saying whatever the rubes will buy". Romney is quite clearly on the latter side.
 
2012-10-08 11:40:03 AM
i86.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-08 11:40:39 AM

Wicked Chinchilla: why does he always wear suits that are too big?


I'm gonna go out a limb and think that his opinion of how bulked P90x made him and how bulked he actually is aren't close. He just strikes me as the kind of guy that is a walking mid-life crisis looking for a 20 year old stripper to bang.
 
2012-10-08 11:40:56 AM

Wicked Chinchilla: SithLord: Cletus C.: The fact is, Ryan is much younger, a fitness freak and the macho animal killer guy. Biden likes to come across as the tough guy but Ryan should kick his butt.

The debate will be in an octagon, won't it?

All Ryan has to do is show off his abs and the women will vote for him.

Honestly, he just has to wear suits that fit him and it would improve his odds.
/why does he always wear suits that are too big?


The Oompa Loompa Factory Outlet closed due to Fartbama's miserable economy.
 
2012-10-08 11:42:01 AM

Citrate1007: Everyone knows that Biden says crazy shiat.....wouldn't be surprised if he does flat out call Ryan a liar. Obama couldn't get away with it against Mitt, but the news results of Bidden calling Ryan a liar would put all of their debate claims under closer scrutiny and get it far enough into the mainstream to reach the Honey Boo Boo voters.


I think that if he did that, the media would be talking about how Biden was mean, testy, and unprofessional, and "Do we really need people with that kind of temper in the White House?"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
2012-10-08 11:42:29 AM

Car_Ramrod: Citrate1007: Everyone knows that Biden says crazy shiat.....wouldn't be surprised if he does flat out call Ryan a liar. Obama couldn't get away with it against Mitt, but the news results of Bidden calling Ryan a liar would put all of their debate claims under closer scrutiny and get it far enough into the mainstream to reach the Honey Boo Boo voters.

I think that if he did that, the media would be talking about how Biden was mean, testy, and unprofessional, and "Do we really need people with that kind of temper in the White House?"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


damn right wing media
 
2012-10-08 11:43:23 AM

skullkrusher: Car_Ramrod: Citrate1007: Everyone knows that Biden says crazy shiat.....wouldn't be surprised if he does flat out call Ryan a liar. Obama couldn't get away with it against Mitt, but the news results of Bidden calling Ryan a liar would put all of their debate claims under closer scrutiny and get it far enough into the mainstream to reach the Honey Boo Boo voters.

I think that if he did that, the media would be talking about how Biden was mean, testy, and unprofessional, and "Do we really need people with that kind of temper in the White House?"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

damn right wing media


Not Racist, Not Nielsen, But #1 with Racists AND Nielsen.
 
2012-10-08 11:46:30 AM
We've already won this debate because everyone knows Their politicians lie, while ours can be trusted to tell the truth.
 
2012-10-08 11:46:39 AM

KarmicDisaster: I think that Ryan will use the same debate technique that Romney did, and I'm not sure how it can be countered. The technique is to spout so many lies and half truths that your opponent simply does not have time to refute any of your points, even though you could win a discussion if there was enough time.. Romney did this by talking fast, combines with flopping his positions. Ryan will be good at just plain lying but making it sound like he knows what he is talking about. It may be impossible in the allocated time to counter this. I think that the only possible counter is to ignore what the person using this debate technique is saying, and launch your own attacks. Unfortunately this is going to reduce the debates to a series of zingers and attacks instead of any sort of discussion based on facts.


What is interesting is that this debate technique is very similar to the strategy that was perfected at Libery University, which seems like it has pretty much caused college debate to devolve into almost exactly what you describe:

"O'Donnell calls debate "a game of the mind," but it is also a sport that requires strength and stamina. Contests last 92 minutes, and each debater on each two-person team speaks three times - opening arguments, cross-examination and closing arguments - for a total of 23 minutes. At some tournaments, teams have five matches a day.

Debaters gulp air like competitive swimmers. Melissa Hurter, a senior from Huntsville, Ala., talked at high speed for nine full seconds between breaths (she and her partner Lindsey Hoban, a senior from Lake Ariel, Pa., keep in shape by playing wind instruments). The Trinity debaters sucked air after only five seconds and sounded as if they were drowning. Liberty won handily.

There is a tactical logic to speed-talking. Arguments - even nonsensical or irrelevant arguments - must be rebutted. Those left unanswered count against you. The faster you talk, the more arguments you can make, and the better your chance to rack up points. Debaters carry their ammunition, files of every possible argument and rebuttal, in 14-gallon plastic tubs."
 
2012-10-08 11:50:17 AM

Car_Ramrod: Citrate1007: Everyone knows that Biden says crazy shiat.....wouldn't be surprised if he does flat out call Ryan a liar. Obama couldn't get away with it against Mitt, but the news results of Bidden calling Ryan a liar would put all of their debate claims under closer scrutiny and get it far enough into the mainstream to reach the Honey Boo Boo voters.

I think that if he did that, the media would be talking about how Biden was mean, testy, and unprofessional, and "Do we really need people with that kind of temper in the White House?"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Yeah, but we're all missing the point. You don't have to be mean to win these debates, just emotionally engaging. Conservatives set their cruise control to "mean" because that's all they know. But Biden can totally captivate a TV audience by being sentimental, by sharing stories of his humble upbringing, cracking jokes, using a little bumper-sticker logic, basically being a realistic version of the caricature we all have in our minds.

He can display more emotional extremes than the seven dwarves and win this debate without saying a word about policy or Ryan just by tugging our heartstrings. I don't know about anyone else but I'm not afraid to set my expectations high for Joltin' Joe.
 
2012-10-08 11:51:24 AM

t3knomanser: bdub77: Politicians who regularly switch positions to suit them and party are a disgrace to humanity

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a politician switching positions. We would hope that with time and experience, they learn things and change their stance on issues. The world around us also changes, and a stance that makes sense today might not make sense tomorrow.

However, there's a very clear and well marked line between "changing stances" and "saying whatever the rubes will buy". Romney is quite clearly on the latter side.


This is why I said 'regularly switch positions'. I'm OK with politicians changing stances. However if someone doesn't have a clear agenda or clear positions, there's a good bet they are just saying something to get elected.
 
2012-10-08 11:55:47 AM

Wicked Chinchilla: SithLord: Cletus C.: The fact is, Ryan is much younger, a fitness freak and the macho animal killer guy. Biden likes to come across as the tough guy but Ryan should kick his butt.

The debate will be in an octagon, won't it?

All Ryan has to do is show off his abs and the women will vote for him.

Honestly, he just has to wear suits that fit him and it would improve his odds.
/why does he always wear suits that are too big?


So that way when when he hulks out, it doesn't rip the suit.
 
MFL
2012-10-08 11:55:51 AM
Cuthbert Allgood
I said I was nervous before the presidential debate but I tried to convince myself to relax by saying, "don't worry, Obama's got this!" and look how that worked out....

/I'm concerned for this one too... They both seem like wildcards to me when it comes to the debate. It seems Biden kept it pretty simple when debating Palin, not sure how he's going to handle the streaming lies coming from Ryan...


You can tell when someone is losing because they bring out the whole "pack of lies" defense.
Princeton Economist: Obama Campaign Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan

Link

Mitt shattered 6 months and millions of dollars worth of negative campaign adds the Obama administration had been running in one night with a record number of people watching.

Mitt Romney is now not only seen as that dreaded "acceptable alternative"....To anyone who isn't drinking Obama cool-aid He is the superior of the two and the president now has to throw as much shiat at the wall as he can and some of it hope it sticks to slow down the erosion of a lead that was never there to begin with.

Hype will only get you so far without results.
 
2012-10-08 11:56:03 AM

KarmicDisaster: I think that Ryan will use the same debate technique that Romney did, and I'm not sure how it can be countered. The technique is to spout so many lies and half truths that your opponent simply does not have time to refute any of your points, even though you could win a discussion if there was enough time.. Romney did this by talking fast, combines with flopping his positions. Ryan will be good at just plain lying but making it sound like he knows what he is talking about. It may be impossible in the allocated time to counter this. I think that the only possible counter is to ignore what the person using this debate technique is saying, and launch your own attacks. Unfortunately this is going to reduce the debates to a series of zingers and attacks instead of any sort of discussion based on facts.


"Mr Moderator, please could I get some more paper? I'm trying to keep a count of all Mr Ryan's lies, and I've run out of space."
 
2012-10-08 11:56:34 AM
I'm looking forward to this debate quite a bit. I used to listen to Biden all the time on C-Span back when he was in congress. Biden was a senator for over 30 years, he has LOTS of experience debating people. Even as a Republican I always liked Biden because even if I didn't agree with him he always challenged my beliefs with his lucid arguments, and made me really think about things.

Can't wait to watch him wipe the floor with that Ryan asshole. Biden keeps getting the easy debates, huh?
 
2012-10-08 11:57:56 AM
If Biden brings the campaign to where it belongs then Obama will be behind nationally in every poll by about 10-20 points.
 
2012-10-08 11:59:14 AM

Wyalt Derp: KarmicDisaster: I think that Ryan will use the same debate technique that Romney did, and I'm not sure how it can be countered. The technique is to spout so many lies and half truths that your opponent simply does not have time to refute any of your points, even though you could win a discussion if there was enough time.. Romney did this by talking fast, combines with flopping his positions. Ryan will be good at just plain lying but making it sound like he knows what he is talking about. It may be impossible in the allocated time to counter this. I think that the only possible counter is to ignore what the person using this debate technique is saying, and launch your own attacks. Unfortunately this is going to reduce the debates to a series of zingers and attacks instead of any sort of discussion based on facts.

"Mr Moderator, please could I get some more paper? I'm trying to keep a count of all Mr Ryan's lies, and I've run out of space."


I'm surprised that this foolproof way to win a debate hasn't been discovered in the thousands of years humans have been engaging in formal rhetorical exercises
 
2012-10-08 11:59:54 AM

FeedTheCollapse: EvilEgg: The problem is that you do not "win" the debate by being correct. I think we learned this lesson the other night in 1960. So Biden will get pwned like a n00b.

I'm inclined to agree,....


/FTFEE
 
2012-10-08 12:01:01 PM

randomjsa: If Biden brings the campaign to where it belongs then Obama will be behind nationally in every poll by about 10-20 points.


You sound sad like these guys:

Well....crap :(
 
2012-10-08 12:04:35 PM

NateGrey: randomjsa: If Biden brings the campaign to where it belongs then Obama will be behind nationally in every poll by about 10-20 points.

You sound sad like these guys:

Well....crap :(


I'm not clicking on that. My laptop won't survive another trip through the dishwasher.
 
2012-10-08 12:05:00 PM

SithLord: Cletus C.: The fact is, Ryan is much younger, a fitness freak and the macho animal killer guy. Biden likes to come across as the tough guy but Ryan should kick his butt.

The debate will be in an octagon, won't it?

All Ryan has to do is show off his abs and the women will vote for him.


Spoken like a legitimate rape wand proponent.
 
2012-10-08 12:07:25 PM

Whiskey Pete: I'm not clicking on that. My laptop won't survive another trip through the dishwasher.


Then quit going to salon, think progress, huffington, and TPM as well.
 
2012-10-08 12:07:26 PM

MFL: Cuthbert Allgood
I said I was nervous before the presidential debate but I tried to convince myself to relax by saying, "don't worry, Obama's got this!" and look how that worked out....

/I'm concerned for this one too... They both seem like wildcards to me when it comes to the debate. It seems Biden kept it pretty simple when debating Palin, not sure how he's going to handle the streaming lies coming from Ryan...

You can tell when someone is losing because they bring out the whole "pack of lies" defense.
Princeton Economist: Obama Campaign Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan

Link

Mitt shattered 6 months and millions of dollars worth of negative campaign adds the Obama administration had been running in one night with a record number of people watching.

Mitt Romney is now not only seen as that dreaded "acceptable alternative"....To anyone who isn't drinking Obama cool-aid He is the superior of the two and the president now has to throw as much shiat at the wall as he can and some of it hope it sticks to slow down the erosion of a lead that was never there to begin with.

Hype will only get you so far without results.


Since you seem to work for the Romney campaign what are the loopholes he plans to remove that make a 20% across the board tax cut revenue neutral?
 
MFL
2012-10-08 12:08:14 PM
Wyalt Derp "Mr Moderator, please could I get some more paper? I'm trying to keep a count of all Mr Ryan's lies, and I've run out of space."

When all else fails.....call you opponent a liar and pout. 
t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-08 12:08:55 PM

MFL: Wyalt Derp "Mr Moderator, please could I get some more paper? I'm trying to keep a count of all Mr Ryan's lies, and I've run out of space."

When all else fails.....call you opponent a liar and pout. 
[t0.gstatic.com image 209x241]



I hope they're paying you overtime
 
2012-10-08 12:09:14 PM

SithLord: octag


I have a feeling Biden would crush Ryan in a cage match. Let's not forget Ryan claims to have athletic prowess that he doesn't have, and I don't think Biden feels pain.

Seriously though I'm not saying Biden will win the debate, but he will not come out like he did in the Palin debate. He was being nice to Palin, you simply do not curb stomp an intellectual retard.

Then again Ryan is kind of an intellectual retard.
 
2012-10-08 12:14:56 PM

Fart_Machine: MFL: Cuthbert Allgood
I said I was nervous before the presidential debate but I tried to convince myself to relax by saying, "don't worry, Obama's got this!" and look how that worked out....

/I'm concerned for this one too... They both seem like wildcards to me when it comes to the debate. It seems Biden kept it pretty simple when debating Palin, not sure how he's going to handle the streaming lies coming from Ryan...

You can tell when someone is losing because they bring out the whole "pack of lies" defense.
Princeton Economist: Obama Campaign Is Misrepresenting My Study on Romney's Tax Plan

Link

Mitt shattered 6 months and millions of dollars worth of negative campaign adds the Obama administration had been running in one night with a record number of people watching.

Mitt Romney is now not only seen as that dreaded "acceptable alternative"....To anyone who isn't drinking Obama cool-aid He is the superior of the two and the president now has to throw as much shiat at the wall as he can and some of it hope it sticks to slow down the erosion of a lead that was never there to begin with.

Hype will only get you so far without results.

Since you seem to work for the Romney campaign what are the loopholes he plans to remove that make a 20% across the board tax cut revenue neutral?


Oh never mind. The WS makes the assumption that Supply Side actually works. LOL!
 
2012-10-08 12:15:01 PM

LesterB: Wicked Chinchilla: t3knomanser: Wicked Chinchilla: It really blindsided Obama.

To be fair, Obama prepared to debate the positions Romney had advocated during most of his campaign. He wasn't prepared for Romney to essentially steal Obama's positions, add in a bullet-pointed list, and throw in a layer of, "I can cut taxes better than him."

Oh, I fully realize that. My question is how, in fact, DO you respond to that effectively? I mean, its such a lie people who actually know the policy positions were all saying "who the fark is this guy and where did you put Mitt Romney?" You wouldn't think an adequate response would even be necessary since its so obviously ridiculous. But yet, here we are.

imageshack.us


Yep.
 
2012-10-08 12:17:09 PM

MFL: Wyalt Derp "Mr Moderator, please could I get some more paper? I'm trying to keep a count of all Mr Ryan's lies, and I've run out of space."

When all else fails.....call you opponent a liar and pout. 
[t0.gstatic.com image 209x241]


He was lying, objectively speaking. shiat he contradicted himself in the same farking debate.

I mean, what do you want, that we pretend he wasn't?
 
2012-10-08 12:17:52 PM

Mad_Radhu: What is interesting is that this debate technique is very similar to the strategy that was perfected at Libery University, which seems like it has pretty much caused college debate to devolve into almost exactly what you describe:

"O'Donnell calls debate "a game of the mind," but it is also a sport that requires strength and stamina. Contests last 92 minutes, and each debater on each two-person team speaks three times - opening arguments, cross-examination and closing arguments - for a total of 23 minutes. At some tournaments, teams have five matches a day.

Debaters gulp air like competitive swimmers. Melissa Hurter, a senior from Huntsville, Ala., talked at high speed for nine full seconds between breaths (she and her partner Lindsey Hoban, a senior from Lake Ariel, Pa., keep in shape by playing wind instruments). The Trinity debaters sucked air after only five seconds and sounded as if they were drowning. Liberty won handily.

There is a tactical logic to speed-talking. Arguments - even nonsensical or irrelevant arguments - must be rebutted. Those left unanswered count against you. The faster you talk, the more arguments you can make, and the better your chance to rack up points. Debaters carry their ammunition, files of every possible argument and rebuttal, in 14-gallon plastic tubs."


I can see where that tactic would be effective in a competitive setting, but political debates play to the crowd, not to people with clipboards and standardized criteria.

The speed-talking technique could likely be countered by reframing the debate. Grab one flimsy thing they said that would have caught the audience's attention, then shift the entire argument to that point and beat them over the head with it. If you can thoroughly discredit someone on a single, important point, everything else they say loses its bite.
 
2012-10-08 12:21:09 PM

TheBigJerk: MFL: Wyalt Derp "Mr Moderator, please could I get some more paper? I'm trying to keep a count of all Mr Ryan's lies, and I've run out of space."

When all else fails.....call you opponent a liar and pout. 
[t0.gstatic.com image 209x241]

He was lying, objectively speaking. shiat he contradicted himself in the same farking debate.

I mean, what do you want, that we pretend he wasn't?


He wants Romney to win Obama to lose, even if it means an unpredictable plutocrat inveterate liar in office.
 
2012-10-08 12:21:20 PM
Could Biden just walk over, grab Ryan, slam Ryan over his knee--breaking Ryan's back, then throw the still warm body into the crowd?

Talk about sending a message.

/this entry is in no way a suggestion, urging, demand or plan to have anyone hurt or killed
 
2012-10-08 12:24:49 PM

Lost Thought 00: Odds are that the VP debate will simply be a mirror of the Presidential debate. It almost always is. Expect the Romney team to score 2-3 more points


You sound so edgy and cool. Too bad you cant get those 2-3 points as if it were some kind of football game.
 
2012-10-08 12:28:03 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Could Biden just walk over, grab Ryan, slam Ryan over his knee--breaking Ryan's back, then throw the still warm body into the crowd?

Talk about sending a message.

/this entry is in no way a suggestion, urging, demand or plan to have anyone hurt or killed


in a fight I have to go with Ryan over Biden. However, if they race for pink slips, I am pretty sure Joey B has the upper hand

i1.nyt.com
 
2012-10-08 12:34:02 PM

skullkrusher: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Could Biden just walk over, grab Ryan, slam Ryan over his knee--breaking Ryan's back, then throw the still warm body into the crowd?

Talk about sending a message.

/this entry is in no way a suggestion, urging, demand or plan to have anyone hurt or killed

in a fight I have to go with Ryan over Biden. However, if they race for pink slips, I am pretty sure Joey B has the upper hand


... as long as the judges don't take too close a look under the hood. Big Joe's Trans Am ain't exactly street legal, but it soaks the panties like no other.
 
2012-10-08 12:34:41 PM

The Great EZE: Holy shiat, the number of back-handed swipes at the President's performance in TFA would make Free Republic proud.

Liberals really need to get their anger-management in check, and I'm saying this as a 100% sincere left-of-centrist. I know Obama represents the last best hope to keep Conservatives from running roughshod over the country, but if you want him to start acting like a petulant, combative message board user don't hold your breath.

Liberals are supposed to be the ones with facts and reason on their side. Now they want to be the ones who play in the muck of lies and empty bluster against those with far more experience? I expected better.


What the hell? No thanks on your advice to Liberals. Obama's problem isn't anger management. Its anger OVERMANAGEMENT. He was sucking it in playing nice guy while Romney lied and aggressived all over him.
 
2012-10-08 12:36:59 PM
Does it really matter if all Ryan does is lie? If someone other than his opponent calls him on his lies, things will be okay. If not, we're screwed. Ryan will lie and make things up and look personable. If Biden calls him on his lies, it will look unseemly. The moderator has to step in.
 
2012-10-08 12:36:59 PM

imontheinternet: skullkrusher: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Could Biden just walk over, grab Ryan, slam Ryan over his knee--breaking Ryan's back, then throw the still warm body into the crowd?

Talk about sending a message.

/this entry is in no way a suggestion, urging, demand or plan to have anyone hurt or killed

in a fight I have to go with Ryan over Biden. However, if they race for pink slips, I am pretty sure Joey B has the upper hand

... as long as the judges don't take too close a look under the hood. Big Joe's Trans Am ain't exactly street legal, but it soaks the panties like no other.


Joe B - cherry poppin' daddy
 
2012-10-08 12:43:26 PM

Kevin72: The Great EZE: Holy shiat, the number of back-handed swipes at the President's performance in TFA would make Free Republic proud.

Liberals really need to get their anger-management in check, and I'm saying this as a 100% sincere left-of-centrist. I know Obama represents the last best hope to keep Conservatives from running roughshod over the country, but if you want him to start acting like a petulant, combative message board user don't hold your breath.

Liberals are supposed to be the ones with facts and reason on their side. Now they want to be the ones who play in the muck of lies and empty bluster against those with far more experience? I expected better.

What the hell? No thanks on your advice to Liberals. Obama's problem isn't anger management. Its anger OVERMANAGEMENT. He was sucking it in playing nice guy while Romney lied and aggressived all over him.


I doubt he's still worried about "Angry Black Man" image, or perhaps, maybe he is still worried about it.

Michelle certainly avoids anything that can be cast as "Angry Black Woman", and she's said as much.
 
2012-10-08 12:44:10 PM

imontheinternet: Mad_Radhu: What is interesting is that this debate technique is very similar to the strategy that was perfected at Libery University, which seems like it has pretty much caused college debate to devolve into almost exactly what you describe:

"O'Donnell calls debate "a game of the mind," but it is also a sport that requires strength and stamina. Contests last 92 minutes, and each debater on each two-person team speaks three times - opening arguments, cross-examination and closing arguments - for a total of 23 minutes. At some tournaments, teams have five matches a day.

Debaters gulp air like competitive swimmers. Melissa Hurter, a senior from Huntsville, Ala., talked at high speed for nine full seconds between breaths (she and her partner Lindsey Hoban, a senior from Lake Ariel, Pa., keep in shape by playing wind instruments). The Trinity debaters sucked air after only five seconds and sounded as if they were drowning. Liberty won handily.

There is a tactical logic to speed-talking. Arguments - even nonsensical or irrelevant arguments - must be rebutted. Those left unanswered count against you. The faster you talk, the more arguments you can make, and the better your chance to rack up points. Debaters carry their ammunition, files of every possible argument and rebuttal, in 14-gallon plastic tubs."

I can see where that tactic would be effective in a competitive setting, but political debates play to the crowd, not to people with clipboards and standardized criteria.

The speed-talking technique could likely be countered by reframing the debate. Grab one flimsy thing they said that would have caught the audience's attention, then shift the entire argument to that point and beat them over the head with it. If you can thoroughly discredit someone on a single, important point, everything else they say loses its bite.


Are you guys seriously suggesting that this should look like forensic league debates? This one was from a UIL state meet in Texas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D20PppPIOc
 
2012-10-08 12:45:25 PM

Kevin72: The Great EZE: Holy shiat, the number of back-handed swipes at the President's performance in TFA would make Free Republic proud.

Liberals really need to get their anger-management in check, and I'm saying this as a 100% sincere left-of-centrist. I know Obama represents the last best hope to keep Conservatives from running roughshod over the country, but if you want him to start acting like a petulant, combative message board user don't hold your breath.

Liberals are supposed to be the ones with facts and reason on their side. Now they want to be the ones who play in the muck of lies and empty bluster against those with far more experience? I expected better.

What the hell? No thanks on your advice to Liberals. Obama's problem isn't anger management. Its anger OVERMANAGEMENT. He was sucking it in playing nice guy while Romney lied and aggressived all over him.


I agree. That's why I didn't direct my post toward Obama but rather toward his frustrated "supporters."

Look, there are at least three good reasons why Obama doesn't act the way garden variety liberals want him to act: 1) That's not in his personality makeup, 2) he's not a garden variety liberal, 3) garden variety liberal aren't running for President! When your only responsibility is to yourself and maybe other message board members who'll see your posts you have tremendous liberty to run as hot with anger as you want. When you're responsible for the entire nation--liberals, conservatives, independents, libertarians, apathetics, and all points in between--you can't just fly off the handle and turn the debate into an episode of Judge Judy.

Like the old meme says: everyone calm the fark down; he's got this.

/Romney's bump is even normalizing now, as bumps are wont to do
 
2012-10-08 12:53:38 PM

MFL: Wyalt Derp "Mr Moderator, please could I get some more paper? I'm trying to keep a count of all Mr Ryan's lies, and I've run out of space."

When all else fails.....call you opponent a liar and pout. 
[t0.gstatic.com image 209x241]


Both Romney and Ryan have lied. Romney lied through his teeth at the debate. He said the exact opposite of more than one of his previous positions.

Both of them are objectively liars, in that they have repeatedly made statements that they knew or should have known to be totally false.

You cannot escape this fact, regardless of how many pictures you post.
 
2012-10-08 01:08:56 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-08 01:11:21 PM
Given that Obama was supposed to be the smart one and he's going up against Paul Ryan, I would not be too hopeful for Biden's chances.
 
2012-10-08 01:55:40 PM

beta_plus: Given that Obama was supposed to be the smart one and he's going up against Paul Ryan, I would not be too hopeful for Biden's chances.


That only means you don't know much about Biden. He's got over 30 years experience in the Senate debating folks. Biden is bright, and you'd have to remove one of the hemispheres of his brain to bring him down to Ryan's level. If the ticket had been reversed (Biden for POTUS and Obama for VP) I'd have voted D for the first time instead of voting for McCain.

Ryan is unscrupulous, so he could make things hard for Biden by pulling a Romney and just spontaneously swapping positions when he's up on stage, but I've heard Biden humiliate smarter than Ryan before so I'm not sure that would work quite as well against Biden. Obama is too polite and measured for his own good.
 
2012-10-08 02:17:31 PM

Aarontology: xanadian: Anyway, I do suspect that Biden will mop the floor with Ryan, but then again, Ryan isn't a complete tard like Palin. Even Bowles says Ryan's good at math-ing things and stuff...

Ryan's problem is that when he starts talking about the maths and such, he goes on and on at length. if it were a free form discussion format or something similar where he had time to explain, he'd do better. As it is, he's had to use the "I don't have time to explain" big when pressed about the Romney/Ryan tax and spending plans.


Well that and unlike Obama, Biden might call Ryan out on some of the more far fetched parts of their policy.
 
2012-10-08 02:20:44 PM

mongbiohazard: beta_plus: Given that Obama was supposed to be the smart one and he's going up against Paul Ryan, I would not be too hopeful for Biden's chances.

That only means you don't know much about Biden. He's got over 30 years experience in the Senate debating folks. Biden is bright, and you'd have to remove one of the hemispheres of his brain to bring him down to Ryan's level. If the ticket had been reversed (Biden for POTUS and Obama for VP) I'd have voted D for the first time instead of voting for McCain.

Ryan is unscrupulous, so he could make things hard for Biden by pulling a Romney and just spontaneously swapping positions when he's up on stage, but I've heard Biden humiliate smarter than Ryan before so I'm not sure that would work quite as well against Biden. Obama is too polite and measured for his own good.


I always get the impression that Ryan is one of those types who gets upset and takes their ball home when things don't go their way.

Just look at that Fox News interview with Mike Wallace's son. Wallace kept asking him about the details of the policy and Ryan kept trying to dodge it and change the question.

He really seems to be the kind of person that doesn't know what to do when he's not in control of the conversation.

/But then again, maybe I'm wrong.
 
Displayed 50 of 176 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report