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(Wired)   If you like Google, Android, or Samsung, Wired is warning you in advance to never again read it the first week of October   (wired.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Android, Samsung, personal computing, graphical user interfaces, hardware design  
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12900 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Oct 2012 at 12:35 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-08 11:03:08 AM  
Wozniak was the more interesting Steve, and he's still alive.
 
2012-10-08 11:18:44 AM  
They're still slobbering on his cock?
 
2012-10-08 11:31:34 AM  
The man was a massive control freak and certifiable lunatic. He made a nice cell phone, farked over a bunch of music execs that had it coming, and stole good ideas faster than a pickpocket at a Shriner's convention. But I'm still not buying Apple's overpriced gee-gaws.
 
2012-10-08 12:06:00 PM  
Apple: Last year's hardware at twice the price
 
2012-10-08 12:20:18 PM  
I guess that isn't any worse than my next door neighbor, who never stops talking about her damned cat.
 
2012-10-08 12:36:50 PM  

Linoleum_Blownapart: Wozniak was the more interesting Steve, and he's still alive.


This ...the Woz should have that bust

what a bad ass
 
2012-10-08 12:39:31 PM  
I like all three, and don't care if they continue to talk about the guy.

Posted from my S3.
 
2012-10-08 12:43:17 PM  
He was like both Edison AND Tesla? I don't think so.
 
2012-10-08 12:49:13 PM  
Jobs has joined the pantheon of greats who advanced science and industry and society itself - a modern-day Tesla...He's our Thomas Edison or Henry Ford

Those people invented things. Jobs never invented anything.
 
2012-10-08 12:49:53 PM  
The pic in that article is offensive... in many ways....
 
2012-10-08 12:51:35 PM  

Perlin Noise: Linoleum_Blownapart: Wozniak was the more interesting Steve, and he's still alive.

This ...the Woz should have that bust


This I agree with. Jobs was the spokesperson and marketer. Woz was the innovator (as were many others down the road). The most outstanding trait of Steve Jobs was his willingness to accept all misdirected credit for himself. His douchebaggery was breathtaking.
 
2012-10-08 12:51:48 PM  

Perlin Noise: Linoleum_Blownapart: Wozniak was the more interesting Steve, and he's still alive.

This ...the Woz should have that bust

what a bad ass


Woz got a speeding ticket for doing 110 in a Prius.

/He must have hacked it to go that fast.
 
2012-10-08 12:52:26 PM  
All the man did was take existing inventions, make them more attractive and marketed them better than the competition, his products were never any better in a quantifiable sense. An ad exec/decorator doesn't fit in with the others.
 
2012-10-08 12:52:32 PM  
I think Wired is just trolling. If not, then I feel sorry for them.
 
2012-10-08 12:54:05 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Jobs has joined the pantheon of greats who advanced science and industry and society itself - a modern-day Tesla...He's our Thomas Edison or Henry Ford

Those people invented things. Jobs never invented anything.


Jobs was very much like Edison actually.

If you remember why the war of the currents started, it's because Tesla was working for Edison, came up with a brilliant idea, which Edison then stole and told Tesla "You just don't understand how business works." Edison had whole labs of scientists to do his hard work so he could profit off their discoveries and spend his time dicking about with whatever he felt like.
 
2012-10-08 12:54:53 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Jobs has joined the pantheon of greats who advanced science and industry and society itself - a modern-day Tesla...He's our Thomas Edison or Henry Ford

Those people invented things. Jobs never invented anything.


No, Edison at least is a good comparison. Because he DID steal things.

/Don't know about Ford.
//Fark Edison.
 
2012-10-08 12:54:57 PM  
lol....

They're trolling, right?
 
2012-10-08 12:56:18 PM  
He was very good at creating demand for products. He was semi-good at taking other people's ideas and turning them into said products. Both of which are laudable business skills, either of which are that remarkable. Sometimes you're the right person at the right time. Hell, look at Zuckerberg. Having large numbers of "devoted followers" is nice and all, but not terribly hard to accomplish under the right circumstances.
 
2012-10-08 12:57:11 PM  

Lor M. Ipsum: Apple: Last year's hardware at twice the price


Pretty much.

I think his "magic" was that unlike Microsoft, IBM, and other giants in tech who designed their equipment for the "scientist" who has an underlying knowledge which allowed them to easily use the equipment, Jobs designed his stuff so the average person without any technical background can use it without a steep learning curve.

I also remember when in 2003/2004 I got my first PDA, a Toshiba Pocket PC with Microsoft's OS on it. I already had stored music files on it using it as a music player and thought that it would really be cool is if it also was a phone. I guess I should have followed up on that idea.
 
2012-10-08 12:58:10 PM  

Felgraf: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Jobs has joined the pantheon of greats who advanced science and industry and society itself - a modern-day Tesla...He's our Thomas Edison or Henry Ford

Those people invented things. Jobs never invented anything.

No, Edison at least is a good comparison. Because he DID steal things.

/Don't know about Ford.
//Fark Edison.


Fair 'nuff, but at least Edison was an inventor, even if he did steal/f*ck over some people.

Jobs never invented a damn thing AND he stole.
 
2012-10-08 12:58:35 PM  

Felgraf: No, Edison at least is a good comparison. Because he DID steal things.

/Don't know about Ford.
//Fark Edison.



Ford was a pretty ruthless businessman, but I don't think he outright stole things.
 
2012-10-08 01:00:19 PM  

Linoleum_Blownapart: Wozniak was the more interesting Steve, and he's still alive.


I really don't get this. Wozniak was (emphasis on was) an excellent engineer. But his take on technology and the world is largely superficial and almost always wrong. Outside of teaching for a few years he hasn't done anything remotely interesting since the Apple II days. He is a big teddy bear that without the "Apple co-founder" label on him - no one would listen to him.
 
2012-10-08 01:03:12 PM  

Felgraf: No, Edison at least is a good comparison. Because he DID steal things.

/Don't know about Ford.
//Fark Edison.


Edison was a fark'n asshole who regularly took credit for the work of the people around him. He excelled at taking those inventions and selling them. Does that mean he was no less accomplished or remarkable? Hell no. The same goes for Jobs.
 
2012-10-08 01:05:28 PM  

heavymetal: I think his "magic" was that unlike Microsoft, IBM, and other giants in tech who designed their equipment for the "scientist" who has an underlying knowledge which allowed them to easily use the equipment, Jobs designed his stuff so the average person without any technical background can use it without a steep learning curve.


Agreed. I almost worded my post as "Last year's technology...", but as much as I hate to admit it, they do have cutting-edge user interfaces
 
2012-10-08 01:07:08 PM  

gingerjet: Felgraf: No, Edison at least is a good comparison. Because he DID steal things.

/Don't know about Ford.
//Fark Edison.

Edison was a fark'n asshole who regularly took credit for the work of the people around him. He excelled at taking those inventions and selling them. Does that mean he was no less accomplished or remarkable? Hell no. The same goes for Jobs.


He excels at being dead too.
 
2012-10-08 01:07:26 PM  

gingerjet: Edison was a fark'n asshole who regularly took credit for the work of the people around him. He excelled at taking those inventions and selling them. Does that mean he was no less accomplished or remarkable? Hell no. The same goes for Jobs.


If you want to remember them for taking other people's work and marketing it successfully, by all means. But is that the way Edison is remembered? Is that the way his "accomplishments" are taught in school? Ask 100 random people who invented the lightbulb, and 99 of them will tell you Edison.

And what the Jobs hype hasn't already got him inventing will surely get added to him as the years go on. But people who remember the facts rather than the hype should be the norm, not the reverse.
 
2012-10-08 01:17:11 PM  
America's greatest cultural triumph: the public corporation.

That's the most nauseating thing about the article.
 
2012-10-08 01:20:33 PM  

fluffy2097: Perlin Noise: Linoleum_Blownapart: Wozniak was the more interesting Steve, and he's still alive.

This ...the Woz should have that bust

what a bad ass

Woz got a speeding ticket for doing 110 in a Prius.

/He must have hacked it to go that fast.


His greatness Woz, mayor of Cinnabon  

/Saw him give a talk
//He's got more ideas than he can deal with
///Max speed of his mouth is actually a bottleneck
 
2012-10-08 01:25:02 PM  
Ugh. This article is just one giant circle-jerk of Apple revisionist history.

I'd say that Commodore had much more influence in bringing personal computing from a hobbyist niche to mass market. It was Commodore who designed the low cost 6500 series processor used in the Apple series and a dozen other low cost personal computers of the era. And it was the rivalry between Commodore and Texas Instruments that so rapidly drove prices down to affordability. Recall that Apple almost went bankrupt during that price war. Their Apple II series was too expensive and they took heavy losses on their disastrous Apple Lisa and Apple III projects.

As for bringing graphical interfaces to the masses, I'd say that recognition goes to Berkley Softworks and their GEOS desktop environment. While there were a number of graphical interfaces that were released a couple of years prior, they tended to be for expensive 68000 desktops (Amiga, Macintosh, ST) or x86 desktops (GEM). GEOS came bundled with the C64C and C128 and was available for the Apple II. It might have sucked, but it got huge exposure.

Apple didn't really become interesting until after Jobs returned from his days at NeXT. And he sure as hell wasn't innovative. He was just a master at bringing a refined product to market at the most opportune time with excellent marketing.
 
2012-10-08 01:27:08 PM  

Setsuna: He was like both Edison AND Tesla? I don't think so.


JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST! I saw that picture and wanted to slap the stupid out of the author.
 
2012-10-08 01:27:34 PM  
If you like Google, Android, or Samsung, Wired is warning you in advance to never again read it the first week of October (wired.com)

Liking Android or Google doesn't mean that I dislike apple or apple devices.

// I do dislike apple, but for reasons unrelated to my like of android or Google. (I simply despise Apple's hegemony, it's like Sony, but without the stupidity.)
 
2012-10-08 01:27:44 PM  
Wired, where is the bust of P. T. Barnum? Surely he should tower over such lesser copies.

As far as Edison goes, he got his start pretty much as the real deal. He was a legend of a telegraph operator, he was stuck inventing his first few inventions. I think it was the phonograph that earned him the money for his big invention: the research laboratory.

This would put him similar to Bill Gates, who at least got his start hacking BASIC into unbelievably small amounts of code. Unfortunately, Microsoft was more like Zynga in its day: making poor copies of other works and doing whatever it took to grab dominant marketshare (I wouldn't put it past Edison to do that as well, but haven't heard it).

Jobs seems to have been the great A&R man of tech. Show him something, and he could tell you if it was going to be hit (and thus tried to build the next great thing). This makes plenty of pointy-headed-bosses all think they have what it takes to be the next Jobs since they also have a gut reaction, yea or neah, for new tech (without ever checking previous accuracy).
 
2012-10-08 01:32:42 PM  
www.wired.com

Really, Wired? Jesus.

Steve Jobs will be forgotten within years. He was a ruthless and effective CEO, but that's all that's interesting about him. He didn't "invent" any of Apple's products. He didn't pioneer any new technologies or industrial processes. He didn't contribute anything of any lasting meaningfulness to society. Yes, the iPhone and the iPad are nice toys, but that's all they are - toys. Comparing him to Tesla, or Ford, or even Edison is frankly insulting.
 
2012-10-08 01:42:16 PM  

Setsuna: He was like both Edison AND Tesla? I don't think so.


Whole lotta this. Jobs is all Edison, zero Tesla. Which isn't necessarily a put down, just a statement.

Gates has more in common with Tesla than Jobs.
 
2012-10-08 01:46:13 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Felgraf: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Jobs has joined the pantheon of greats who advanced science and industry and society itself - a modern-day Tesla...He's our Thomas Edison or Henry Ford

Those people invented things. Jobs never invented anything.

No, Edison at least is a good comparison. Because he DID steal things.

/Don't know about Ford.
//Fark Edison.

Fair 'nuff, but at least Edison was an inventor, even if he did steal/f*ck over some people.

Jobs never invented a damn thing [that I find important] AND he stole.


FTFY. He did a lot of innovative design work, but many people don't think those count as real inventions worthy of investment. See, e.g. Linux.
 
2012-10-08 01:48:45 PM  
It isn't like these used cars salesmen stood on the shoulders of giants ...

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-08 01:48:53 PM  

dethmagnetic: He didn't contribute anything of any lasting meaningfulness to society. Yes, the iPhone and the iPad are nice toys, but that's all they are - toys.


Entertainment is one of the largest sectors of the economy. Toys are with us from our very first days in the crib to the last time we frag some n00b on our deathbed. Some of my father-in-law's last words included saying goodbye to Scrabble. Every society throughout history has had games of some sort. Even dolphins play.

So, yeah, if all he did was come up with toys, then he did something of lasting meaningfulness.
 
2012-10-08 01:51:20 PM  
The fanboys have arrived.
 
2012-10-08 01:53:43 PM  

Theaetetus: Even dolphins play.


1.) you don't need toys to play
2.) anything can be a toy

Given 2, you seem to think that Jobs could have invented a flourescent toilet brush and, if a misguided child used that as a toy, Jobs' invention would have lasting meaningfulness.
 
2012-10-08 01:59:36 PM  

Feepit: Theaetetus: Even dolphins play.

1.) you don't need toys to play
2.) anything can be a toy

Given 2, you seem to think that Jobs could have invented a flourescent toilet brush and, if a misguided child used that as a toy, Jobs' invention would have lasting meaningfulness.


That's all you got from what I said? Wow. I feel very sorry for you. I'll go play a round of minesweeper in sympathy for your inability to feel.
 
2012-10-08 02:04:37 PM  

Theaetetus: Entertainment is one of the largest sectors of the economy. Toys are with us from our very first days in the crib to the last time we frag some n00b on our deathbed. Some of my father-in-law's last words included saying goodbye to Scrabble. Every society throughout history has had games of some sort. Even dolphins play.

So, yeah, if all he did was come up with toys, then he did something of lasting meaningfulness.


The shelf life is shorter though. Scrabble looks basically the same as it did 40 years ago. Do you think we're going to be on the iPhone 20 in 2042 or we're going to be looking at something totally different? I think it's a reasonable assumption that the lasting impact of the iWhatever isn't very big. People dimly remember their Apple IIe but not in the same way as the light bulb or the automobile.
 
2012-10-08 02:11:28 PM  

Theaetetus: That's all you got from what I said? Wow. I feel very sorry for you. I'll go play a round of minesweeper in sympathy for your inability to feel.


In that case, I'll expand.

What I got out of what you said was a misguided emphasis on toys rather than play. Inventing toys is easy. Children do it every day. Children even manage to play and make-do without toys. Playing is a necessary part of physical and psychological health. Jobs didn't event play. If anything, iPhones and iPads detract from healthy sort of play because as toys they are entirely psychological and lack the physical component. As to your father-in-law, while he enjoyed his Scrabble, if Scrabble never existed his life wouldn't have been any less richer.
 
2012-10-08 02:12:27 PM  
I still read Wired for non-Apple stories, but long ago gave up reading their phone/laptop reviews. No matter what the product, they always find a way to prop Apple products. Stuff like (paraphrased), "Sure, it's not a MacBook Pro, but what do you expect for only $799?" Reviews of actual Apple products are too reverential to be taken seriously.

Also, anyone comparing Tesla and Jobs should be slapped in the nuts. Jobs was an extremely savvy, some say "visionary" businessman, but no more. You would put a bowler on a list of the top ten greatest athletes.
 
2012-10-08 02:13:48 PM  
Excuse my cat-like typing above. :)
 
2012-10-08 02:18:35 PM  

Theaetetus: Entertainment is one of the largest sectors of the economy. Toys are with us from our very first days in the crib to the last time we frag some n00b on our deathbed. Some of my father-in-law's last words included saying goodbye to Scrabble. Every society throughout history has had games of some sort. Even dolphins play.

So, yeah, if all he did was come up with toys, then he did something of lasting meaningfulness.


And if Steve Jobs had invented the concept of toys, you might have a point. All he did was marginally improve an already existing product, create a brilliant marketing image around it, and sell it to rubes for four times what comparable products cost. That's an impressive achievement, to be sure, but it certainly doesn't elevate him to the status of a great industrialist or inventor.
 
2012-10-08 02:25:54 PM  
i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-08 02:29:24 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Felgraf: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Jobs has joined the pantheon of greats who advanced science and industry and society itself - a modern-day Tesla...He's our Thomas Edison or Henry Ford

Those people invented things. Jobs never invented anything.

No, Edison at least is a good comparison. Because he DID steal things.

/Don't know about Ford.
//Fark Edison.

Fair 'nuff, but at least Edison was an inventor, even if he did steal/f*ck over some people.

Jobs never invented a damn thing AND he stole.


He was more a CEO who hired a lot of inventors, much like Steve Jobs.

If you want a to reference agreat US inventor you should go with Tesla.
 
2012-10-08 02:34:00 PM  
As much as I dislike Jobs, I've got to give him credit where credit is due: for better or worse he took an industry that was restricted to enthusiasts and professionals and opened it to the general public. True, if he hadn't someone else would have, but he was the guy with the right idea at the right time. And while I don't think he can be credited with a single innovation or invention, I do think he's a fairly important figure in the history of today's computing ecosystem.

He's a pretty solid analog for Ford actually. Ford didn't invent the car, but he saw a wider market, brought product to the masses, and built an empire out of it. Edison's not bad either: gets credits for the work of his staff, largely regarded as a tremendous douchebag, but you can't argue he wasn't influential.

/Tesla's got almost nothing in common with the other 3.
 
2012-10-08 02:34:15 PM  

Feepit: Theaetetus: That's all you got from what I said? Wow. I feel very sorry for you. I'll go play a round of minesweeper in sympathy for your inability to feel.

In that case, I'll expand.

What I got out of what you said was a misguided emphasis on toys rather than play. Inventing toys is easy. Children do it every day.


Correction - children re-invent toys that others have previously invented. Being the first to invent a new toy isn't as easy.

Children even manage to play and make-do without toys. Playing is a necessary part of physical and psychological health. Jobs didn't event play.

Never claimed he did. Nor did I claim, as dethmagnetic suggests, that he invented the "concept of toys". It's really amazing - you two apparently think that if a concept has ever been realized in one form, then no one ever does anything further when they come up with a new form. Authors do nothing, because the concept of a story exists. Engineers do nothing, because the concept of a machine exists. It's a very strange all-or-nothing outlook.

If anything, iPhones and iPads detract from healthy sort of play because as toys they are entirely psychological and lack the physical component. As to your father-in-law, while he enjoyed his Scrabble, if Scrabble never existed his life wouldn't have been any less richer.

He would have disagreed. Isn't it more than a little presumptive to go around proclaiming whether peoples' lives are richer or not because you don't find the things they enjoy "worthy"?
 
2012-10-08 02:37:46 PM  

you have pee hands: Theaetetus: Entertainment is one of the largest sectors of the economy. Toys are with us from our very first days in the crib to the last time we frag some n00b on our deathbed. Some of my father-in-law's last words included saying goodbye to Scrabble. Every society throughout history has had games of some sort. Even dolphins play.

So, yeah, if all he did was come up with toys, then he did something of lasting meaningfulness.

The shelf life is shorter though. Scrabble looks basically the same as it did 40 years ago. Do you think we're going to be on the iPhone 20 in 2042 or we're going to be looking at something totally different? I think it's a reasonable assumption that the lasting impact of the iWhatever isn't very big. People dimly remember their Apple IIe but not in the same way as the light bulb or the automobile.


I don't know about that... I remember my first Atari as fondly as I remember my first car, and probably more so. Will we be on iPhone version 20? Probably not... but will we use devices with some of the same UI elements that he came up with or improvements on them? Absolutely. Definitely the latter.
 
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