Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Newsweek)   Many people have claimed near-death experiences, but few are as interesting or detailed as that of one neurosurgeon who describes seven days spent in Heaven while his brain was completely inactive   ( thedailybeast.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, scientific explanations  
•       •       •

28074 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Oct 2012 at 12:39 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



534 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2012-10-08 06:18:45 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: falcon176: Fark is an Atheist forum with a daily Atheist circlejerk, check again.

What a burden you carry.


I don't consider my massive penis a burden
 
2012-10-08 06:21:07 PM  

Farking Canuck: //Sorry. The god-of-the-gaps is near death himself and I say good riddance


Kinda like the people who doubt say consciousness and higher logic must reside in a different part of the brain, despite all previous evidence to the contrary, and no confirming evidence since? It's the fingernails! Gotta be!
 
2012-10-08 06:25:34 PM  

ELF Radio: RAAAARGH SHUT UP ALL YOU WEAK, SNIVELING BABIES WHO THINK LIFE HAS MEANING OR SOME GAY SHIAT LIKE THAT. WE ARE ANIMAL-MACHINES THAT SPRANG INEXPLICABLY FROM NOTHING AND WE EAT AND FARK AND DIE AND THAT IS ALL. NOTHING ELSE EXISTS AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHER WISE IS A LAME DICK WHO CANT DEAL WITH REALITY.

WHY DONT YOU FAIRIES GO BECOME REPUBLICANS AND VOTE FOR MITT ROMENY IF YOU BELIEVE THIS NANCY QUEER AND HIS HALLUCINATROY BULLSHIAT.


Strong convincing words from someone who claims to have "ridden the mighty moon worm."

/HALLUCINATROY!
 
2012-10-08 06:29:36 PM  

Millennium: xanadian: FTFA: In the fall of 2008, however, after seven days in a coma during which the human part of my brain, the neocortex, was inactivated

So...PART of the brain, not the WHOLE brain.

Got it.

There is some scientific interest here: the part of his brain that shut down is the part that, according to our current understanding, should have been responsible for experiences like this. That doesn't necessarily mean his interpretation of what happened is correct, of course. But it does mean that we've missed something: if what he saw was a dream (which I think it was), then something can give rise to dreams which we hadn't considered. That has implications for neuroscience.


I think that's what has me so... not angry, I can't quite think of the right word (stupid cold, can't think straight). Experiences such as this COULD lead to greater understanding of how our brains work, but when they're chalked up to a religious or supernatural experience that potential for discovery flies out the window. Religion is such a cop out for a lot of people. In the realm of science "because Jesus" is an especially unacceptable explanation for observed phenomena.
 
2012-10-08 06:32:03 PM  

falcon176: Quantum Apostrophe: falcon176: Fark is an Atheist forum with a daily Atheist circlejerk, check again.

What a burden you carry.

I don't consider my massive penis a burden


But that large magnifying glass you carry around must get heavy.
 
2012-10-08 06:34:58 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Farking Canuck: //Sorry. The god-of-the-gaps is near death himself and I say good riddance

Kinda like the people who doubt say consciousness and higher logic must reside in a different part of the brain, despite all previous evidence to the contrary, and no confirming evidence since? It's the fingernails! Gotta be!


I do not make any claims about the human brain. My degree is not in any field remotely related to biology.

I do, however, know that accurate perception of reality is not the brain's strong suit on a good day ... much less when it is deprived of O2. I do know that we have massive evidence to show that the human mind is deceived so easily that it is amazing we are able to function. Most of what we think we see, hear, or know is what our brains have stitched together from sensory inputs combined with all the information that has been stored in our heads. Speaking of which, how many years has this author (of a new book ... please buy it now!!) been going to church?

How the brain works is completely irrelevant to the conclusion that this author's 'evidence' is worthless. Note, that is not saying that it is possible that his story is not 100% accurate ... it is saying that it is worthless as evidence supporting the claim that magic is real.
 
2012-10-08 06:37:16 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: boyofd: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Poppa Boner: The only people who know what happens after you die are dead.

You could always invest your time into learning astral projection. The information on how to do so is out there for free, if you want to make an actual study of the phenomena yourself (that is, if you trust your own perception). If you're willing to dedicate a couple hours a day over the course of a year at most to discover the answer to the biggest mystery in the universe, you could do worse.

"Trusting your own perception" is the first step down the road to all kinds of wrong conclusions. Until you understand just how easily your own perceptions can be fooled and manipulated (or just how often they are fooled and manipulated during the course of an ordinary day), you are just going to spin your wheels. I guess my metaphors are at a crossroads.

Like I said, it's illegal and unethical to bring other people, even if they willingly volunteer to the brink of death. Do you propose some alternative experiment?

No, really, what evidence within the realm of law would be acceptable as proof?


upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2012-10-08 06:38:57 PM  
Oh ya? Then how do you explain that his video camera recorded seven weeks of static?!
 
2012-10-08 06:39:55 PM  

hubiestubert: *snip* In the end, I know I got lucky. If you put credence to the Many Worlds hypothesis, there were a LOT of Hubies out there who didn't make it. I can certainly see how my brain translated the experience into a lot of paths to choose from, and the effort to survive the mess as being as much luck of the draw, as a fight to remain and keep the damn heart going. At the same time, as a Buddhist, I see it as a choice to remain, a choice to not move on. As a Buddhist, it can be both, and in the end, I survived an event that kills 99.6% of folks within the first 20 minutes, and it was over 40 before I got to the right hospital. Aortic dissections are no joke, and I burned up a lot of luck, as well as a lot of Western Mass' blood supply 15 years ago. It is hard to not get a little contemplative after such a thing.


1) If the MWH is true, then there are some worlds where you don't exist/have died, and some where you are still alive.

2) You can't experience the worlds where you are dead.

3) Therefore, you will experience the longest life that it is possible for you to experience.
 
2012-10-08 06:44:48 PM  

Farking Canuck: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Farking Canuck: //Sorry. The god-of-the-gaps is near death himself and I say good riddance

Kinda like the people who doubt say consciousness and higher logic must reside in a different part of the brain, despite all previous evidence to the contrary, and no confirming evidence since? It's the fingernails! Gotta be!

I do not make any claims about the human brain. My degree is not in any field remotely related to biology.

I do, however, know that accurate perception of reality is not the brain's strong suit on a good day ... much less when it is deprived of O2. I do know that we have massive evidence to show that the human mind is deceived so easily that it is amazing we are able to function. Most of what we think we see, hear, or know is what our brains have stitched together from sensory inputs combined with all the information that has been stored in our heads. Speaking of which, how many years has this author (of a new book ... please buy it now!!) been going to church?

How the brain works is completely irrelevant to the conclusion that this author's 'evidence' is worthless. Note, that is not saying that it is possible that his story is not 100% accurate ... it is saying that it is worthless as evidence supporting the claim that magic is real.


Guy had been Christian/spiritual-ish until 2000/early 2000s until a incident basically broke what weak/caring faith the dude had while reaffirming what he had thought/published/believed neuroscience had to say about the brain and mind (the reductionist materialist theory). Which is what the guy has said time and time and time and time again. Once he came out of his coma and was able to, he wrote down his experience without looking up anything about NDEs or anything of the sort and then went to find out what happened. He went to his colleges with his experience and his medical situation and they basically told him that they had absolutely no clue what went on or how it would have happened, since meningitis attacks the very things that would (as science has "explained" it) make him be able to have this experience in the first place.

You act as if the guy was dragged off the street and asked to start blabbing into a microphone about what he saw after he just cracked a fresh whippet. He's a well respected and published neuroscientist who's been around for quite a while. He had a experience that basically all his training and his belief system said he could not and should not have happened.
 
2012-10-08 06:45:32 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: hubiestubert: *snip* In the end, I know I got lucky. If you put credence to the Many Worlds hypothesis, there were a LOT of Hubies out there who didn't make it. I can certainly see how my brain translated the experience into a lot of paths to choose from, and the effort to survive the mess as being as much luck of the draw, as a fight to remain and keep the damn heart going. At the same time, as a Buddhist, I see it as a choice to remain, a choice to not move on. As a Buddhist, it can be both, and in the end, I survived an event that kills 99.6% of folks within the first 20 minutes, and it was over 40 before I got to the right hospital. Aortic dissections are no joke, and I burned up a lot of luck, as well as a lot of Western Mass' blood supply 15 years ago. It is hard to not get a little contemplative after such a thing.

1) If the MWH is true, then there are some worlds where you don't exist/have died, and some where you are still alive.

2) You can't experience the worlds where you are dead.

3) Therefore, you will experience the longest life that it is possible for you to experience.


It's called the anthropic principle.
 
2012-10-08 06:57:10 PM  

The Billdozer: You act as if the guy was dragged off the street and asked to start blabbing into a microphone about what he saw after he just cracked a fresh whippet. He's a well respected and published neuroscientist who's been around for quite a while. He had a experience that basically all his training and his belief system said he could not and should not have happened.


No, I present two other possible explanations for his experience: money and religious programming.

Unlike believers who want this to be true so bad that they will not consider other explanations, those of us who are actually interested in the truth consider all possibilities.
 
2012-10-08 07:13:01 PM  

Babwa Wawa: xanadian: So...PART of the brain, not the WHOLE brain.

Indeed. A fascinating crock of self-affirming sh*te.


Yes, but you can mad money selling book to Evangelicals. There is a whole creepy subgenre about this.

/if this happened to me I'd do my 7 days in hell as the book
 
2012-10-08 07:14:17 PM  

TorqueToad: Mugato: logistic: Although I considered myself a faithful Christian

Loses any trace of credibility at this precise point. Not arguing one way or another, but his opinion is nixed by this statement.

You didn't finish the sentence. I was so more in name than in actual belief. So according to the Bible, he wouldn't be in heaven, he'd be in Hell!

/how come no one has near death experiences of Hell, anyway?

They do, in fact there's a whole book about it that another doctor wrote. I read it in the 90's.

Perhaps you have good Google Fu to find it. :)


If you're talking about "Hellraiser", Hell is full of chains and leather and is awesome!
 
2012-10-08 07:15:29 PM  

Beaver Knievel: ELF Radio: RAAAARGH SHUT UP ALL YOU WEAK, SNIVELING BABIES WHO THINK LIFE HAS MEANING OR SOME GAY SHIAT LIKE THAT. WE ARE ANIMAL-MACHINES THAT SPRANG INEXPLICABLY FROM NOTHING AND WE EAT AND FARK AND DIE AND THAT IS ALL. NOTHING ELSE EXISTS AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHER WISE IS A LAME DICK WHO CANT DEAL WITH REALITY.

WHY DONT YOU FAIRIES GO BECOME REPUBLICANS AND VOTE FOR MITT ROMENY IF YOU BELIEVE THIS NANCY QUEER AND HIS HALLUCINATROY BULLSHIAT.

Strong convincing words from someone who claims to have "ridden the mighty moon worm."

/HALLUCINATROY!



Hallucinatroy?

HallucinaTROY?

THIS

IS

HALLUCINASPARTA!!!

i105.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2012-10-08 07:17:03 PM  

JuddyBuddy77: DMT


I was going to say the same thing. Sounds exactly like my most intense DMT experience. But I wonder if this guy, with his rightward turn toward believing it was "heaven" at the end of the article, would dismiss these experiences since they don't line up with his pre-determined outcome.

I mean, if you read any of the druggy lit you'll find something in common between this story and the most lucid of their claims.
 
2012-10-08 07:21:49 PM  

Farking Canuck: The Billdozer: You act as if the guy was dragged off the street and asked to start blabbing into a microphone about what he saw after he just cracked a fresh whippet. He's a well respected and published neuroscientist who's been around for quite a while. He had a experience that basically all his training and his belief system said he could not and should not have happened.

No, I present two other possible explanations for his experience: money and religious programming.

Unlike believers who want this to be true so bad that they will not consider other explanations, those of us who are actually interested in the truth consider all possibilities.


Money: Seems like a doctor of neuroscience may have a bit of cash in the bank. Unless the guy is just hyper-greedy and a great liar, he wouldn't be wanting for US currency. Besides, for someone who is a scientist, one would assume the easiest and most painless route to a quick buck would be to write a book about the reductionist materialist theory of brain = mind. It would make him more popular in his academic circles then this would.


Religious programming: Possible; but for someone of little or not faith who is in a field that some would think would directly destroy or at least discourage any kind of religious or spiritual faith at all (especially the standard Judeo-Christian concepts that most atheist prose seems to pit itself against), I would think the last thing he would visualize if he could consciously do it would be something he had little to no faith in at all. Even if it were subconscious, you would see more events of atheists/materialists having "near death-bed conversions" when they came anywhere near close to death since their brain would start the "Oh, looks like I'm gonna die" process. Also, his experience was not of an angel grabbing him and putting him at the gates of Heaven and St Peter judging his worth and seeing all his deceased friends/family members in a white-bread version of heaven. It was consistent with some of the standard aspects of NDEs that have been reported ever since ancient Greece.

Do I know if the guy is full of ish or not? I have no clue. But considering his background, what he had and what he experienced, I'd be lying to the scientific side of myself if I didn't take an interest in his story.
 
2012-10-08 07:32:30 PM  

Magnanimous_J: I don't get that. If we evolved all of our traits as advantages to increase our odds of procreation, what evolutionary advantage does ease of dying provide? How could we evolve a trait that almost always immediately precedes the death of the person exhibiting it?


I wonder if it's more of a remnant of the intrauterine, physiological mechanisms that allow us to bring the chaos of our developing brain together rather than the nonsensical notion of having evolved physiological mechanisms that help us undure the chaotic, chemical breakdown of death.
 
2012-10-08 07:35:23 PM  

ImmaHoopyFrood: When I was about 10 I had a wicked out-of-body (or bad trip) I'd never want to experience again. Although I think I was out for only a few minutes it was at least a day's worth of time to me. I was blowing into a motorcycle gas tank to build up pressure and holding a coffee can underneath the tank valve to get some gas for the mower. All of the air went back into my lungs. I stood up and started hearing a deafining loud buzz. My legs and arms went rigid and I saw a glistening metal diagonal mesh form around my arms, legs, and torso that felt like it was shocking me. Then I fell over backwards.

During that time all turned dark and I saw Ohhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooo scroll across the black in vivid huge white letters. Then I was traveling with dark shapes for hours on a glossy black endless plane. They didn't have faces and all you could hear was a rushing wind sound. Everything was cold.

The shapes dissolved as this mountainous black human brain encased in mesh appeared in the sky slowly revolving. Then I was a tiny white light stuck inside the hollow brain as it revolved faster. A small opening started to form and somehow I (the ball) shot towards it and missed and I was bouncing around inside as it spun. This seemed to go on for about an hour. (Had I incorporated bingo into this somehow?)

Eventually I hit the hole and I was aware of being able to see the tree limbs and the sky. I lifted my head and looked down and all I saw was dirt and pineneedles. Within about a minute my body rematerialized over the dirt. Farking scared the crap out of me and I can still remember it vividly. And that was over 30 years ago. I don't think I was dead or anything so it probably doesn't count, but I was 100% sure during the episode that I was. I assume it was probably just a really bad convulsion.


whatever that experience was, it was such a good description I could visualize it very well. Nicely done!
 
2012-10-08 07:39:18 PM  

Farking Canuck: I do, however, know that accurate perception of reality is not the brain's strong suit on a good day ... much less when it is deprived of O2. I do know that we have massive evidence to show that the human mind is deceived so easily that it is amazing we are able to function.


But perception of complex imagery and concepts while the parts of the brain known to be integral for the perception of complex imagery and concepts are not functioning, casts significant doubt on the validity of decades of science pointing strongly to those regions of the brain being responsible for such. So really the question is, are we so incompetent when it comes to assessing the functions of regions of the brain, or is it equally possible that there's more to our mental structure than can be observed by traditional means?

Farking Canuck: Most of what we think we see, hear, or know is what our brains have stitched together from sensory inputs combined with all the information that has been stored in our heads.


I've never been confused by a dream or any drug induced phenomena while back in my present mind into believing that it was a real experience, have you?

Farking Canuck: Speaking of which, how many years has this author (of a new book ... please buy it now!!) been going to church?


Did he see anything that appeared biblical?

Farking Canuck: How the brain works is completely irrelevant to the conclusion that this author's 'evidence' is worthless.


I disagree, when decades of research could potentially be thrown out the window with his experiences of conscious thought, during an event where his consciousness processing grey matter is in effect, not functioning, you can draw a few conclusions depending on your dealings with people. He is a liar and knows it, He believes he's telling the truth, but it is a false memory, He is telling the truth. As odds go, it seems most likely to believe that there is incorrect information at first glance. However, what does he stand to gain in each scenario? Yes, he's published a book, but as far as book sales go, and his education as far as a neurosurgeon, it seems like he's risking maybe a year or 2 of income at the expense of the income derived over the rest of his life, IF his book does fairly well. Not quite the decision I'd expect from someone who's dedicated their life to the study of neurosurgery, and only a 2/3rd chance of true belief(which I'm sure he's calculated), so now we're most likely down to 66/33. Being a neurosurgeon, who has an education in the field, do you think he'd bank his future on a 66/33 shot to gain an extra 2 years of income at the expense of the rest of his lifetime of earnings? It seems unlikely to me, but yes, still possible. However If I was a betting man, I'd go with honesty that has been verified to the best of his ability, which is far more compelling than any argument presented here.
 
2012-10-08 07:42:17 PM  
Millennium
Not by your model, but your model excludes quite a lot. It has value in some particular fields of study, but is woefully incomplete as a guiding principle for life in general.

IOW "Nuh uh!"
 
2012-10-08 07:48:44 PM  
Sounds like an Ayahuasca trip to me. That or a dream. What probably happened is that these experiences happened as his brain was coming online again. It just seemed like they happened over a long period of time. DMT can cause that. I was watching a DMT documentary on Netflix called The Spirit Molecule, and this Native American Shaman was unconscious for fifteen minutes. The first question he asked when he came to was how long he had been out. In his mind he had been gone for a thousand years, but in the real world it was only fifteen minutes. So yeah, cool story, bro, but it's entirely explainable yet altogether fascinating. Fascinating like reading a trip report on Erowid.
 
2012-10-08 07:52:51 PM  
I'd believe him if he also wasn't breathing for a week.
 
2012-10-08 07:55:11 PM  

stainedglassdoll: Didn't read the whole thread, so apologies if it's been posted already, but I came across this article today and think this is an appropriate place to drop it. (from Link)

"You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother...etc


I want no such thing. I want to die lonnnnng after my mother dies!
 
2012-10-08 08:06:15 PM  
Some people have reported frightening experiences, but these stories are not as common as the positive ones we are familiar with.

CSB: I have a medical condition that causes me to occasionally pass out. When I do, I almost always have the same 'vision'. It's very scary. I'm under water, in a vortex, with little demonic looking critters , holding onto my feet, trying to keep me from swimming to the surface. In the end I always break free and rise to the top, just as I return to consciousness.

Being medically trained, logically I realize that the vision is produced by my hypoxic brain and probably has no particular meaning. But it still weirds me out for a while.

I was raised Protestant and still *mostly* subscribe to that belief system. The visions haven't caused me to question my faith. I try to keep it in perspective. But having my heart stop several times a year has inspired me to keep the ones I love close, and to try to be good to people.
 
2012-10-08 09:29:40 PM  

The Billdozer: Do I know if the guy is full of ish or not? I have no clue. But considering his background, what he had and what he experienced, I'd be lying to the scientific side of myself if I didn't take an interest in his story.


There are too many "reasonable doubts", to use a legal term, to give his "evidence" any credit. Sure you can look at it and say "that's interesting" or "I wonder if he's telling the truth" or even "I wonder if that really happened to him".

But suggesting his recollection is any form of evidence is just confirmation bias from those who desperately want it to be true.
 
2012-10-08 09:31:23 PM  
TardiveDyskinesia
CSB: I have a medical condition that causes me to occasionally pass out. When I do, I almost always have the same 'vision'. It's very scary. I'm under water, in a vortex, with little demonic looking critters , holding onto my feet, trying to keep me from swimming to the surface. In the end I always break free and rise to the top, just as I return to consciousness.

The fun part is trying to figure out if the vision occurs in real-time or if your brain constructs it when you wake up, or maybe even as you recall it afterward.
 
2012-10-08 09:54:44 PM  

RanDomino: TardiveDyskinesia
CSB: I have a medical condition that causes me to occasionally pass out. When I do, I almost always have the same 'vision'. It's very scary. I'm under water, in a vortex, with little demonic looking critters , holding onto my feet, trying to keep me from swimming to the surface. In the end I always break free and rise to the top, just as I return to consciousness.

The fun part is trying to figure out if the vision occurs in real-time or if your brain constructs it when you wake up, or maybe even as you recall it afterward.


This is the best argument presented so far. Previous entries need not apply.
 
2012-10-08 09:58:54 PM  
There is a long-term study underway in hospitals to hopefully shed more light on his subject. Articles of note have been placed in emergency rooms that can only be seen from the perspective of the ceiling. If NDE'rs can identify some of these objects, then will know that there is some validity to their claims.
 
2012-10-08 10:19:46 PM  
skepticscorner.netView Full Size
 

I thought you got psychic powers from being in a coma? Right?
 
2012-10-08 10:27:42 PM  
I've been in heaven and the women there don't wear any clothes
And the beer is free
 
2012-10-08 10:31:00 PM  

RanDomino: TardiveDyskinesia
CSB: I have a medical condition that causes me to occasionally pass out. When I do, I almost always have the same 'vision'. It's very scary. I'm under water, in a vortex, with little demonic looking critters , holding onto my feet, trying to keep me from swimming to the surface. In the end I always break free and rise to the top, just as I return to consciousness.

The fun part is trying to figure out if the vision occurs in real-time or if your brain constructs it when you wake up, or maybe even as you recall it afterward.


I wonder about those things too. I wish it was possible to replay it in a fully conscious state, I'd love to analyze it further. Why is my vision always the same? What scraps does my mind cobble together to create it? How far is my sense of time distorted? Why do I, a generally positive person, have such hellish visions?

The human brain is such an enigma...
 
2012-10-08 10:34:44 PM  

harryhardhat: I've been in heaven and the women there don't wear any clothes
And the beer is free


Pshaw, silly. That's not "heaven," That's Pi Kappa Alpha house at UT in Knoxville.

/also, those aren't women.
//Lots of box wine though, that's got to be nice.
 
2012-10-08 10:36:53 PM  

Andromeda: CSB: I had a non-religious friend who I respected to the utmost and had a "life after death" experience in Vietnam when for a few minutes he was critically brain dead. He would be driven to tears trying to explain it because a lot of it he didn't understand, but there were strange details like how he thought he smelled bread baking and there were relatives who died years ago there, but when he was given the chance to return he took it then woke up in the hospital again (though he wondered for years afterwards if it was worth it considering how much rehabilitating pain he had from his injuries).

Guy was, as I said earlier, not religious so he willingly acknowledged it could all just be his brain shutting down... but he could never quite believe it because then why would he be given the choice to return? Weird thing to put in a shut-down mode.

Friend died a few years ago in a heart attack, so I've always wondered a bit about that since as he's the only person I've known personally to have such an experience- and then not cloud it with Judeo-Christian overtones to boot. If nothing else though it's consolation to me to know that when it hit he recognized what was happening and wasn't afraid.


My dad was in a coma for a few weeks. At one point, he had a heart attack, coded, and was deceased for 30 minutes. They managed to resuscitate him. I was sitting at his side when he came out of his coma, and I'll never forget his first words. "I died". It was all he could barely squeak out. Over the next days, weeks, and months, he shared his near death experience with me- and he is/was an atheist. Interestingly enough, he didn't go to heaven. He was pretty damn sure he was in hell, or at least on his way. I found all of this fascinating. He certainly believes something happened. I'd like to believe there's something after, but my own jury will be out until I hit that point.

/my own CSB
 
2012-10-08 10:38:14 PM  

Glenechocreek: There is a long-term study underway in hospitals to hopefully shed more light on his subject. Articles of note have been placed in emergency rooms that can only be seen from the perspective of the ceiling. If NDE'rs can identify some of these objects, then will know that there is some validity to their claims.


The AWARE study. This thing has been all over the map, from its gonna prove NDEs are real to that's not the point of it to its just one small component of it to it is destined to fail because of the focus on the symbols instead of what else can be verified to a couple books that are due out that are from the doctor during the study (Sam Parina) that are really vague on what they found but don't look like they got any target hits. I think the main thing around it is going to be the ethics behind organ donation, but that's just my thought.
 
2012-10-08 10:47:06 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: Andromeda: CSB: I had a non-religious friend who I respected to the utmost and had a "life after death" experience in Vietnam when for a few minutes he was critically brain dead. He would be driven to tears trying to explain it because a lot of it he didn't understand, but there were strange details like how he thought he smelled bread baking and there were relatives who died years ago there, but when he was given the chance to return he took it then woke up in the hospital again (though he wondered for years afterwards if it was worth it considering how much rehabilitating pain he had from his injuries).

Guy was, as I said earlier, not religious so he willingly acknowledged it could all just be his brain shutting down... but he could never quite believe it because then why would he be given the choice to return? Weird thing to put in a shut-down mode.

Friend died a few years ago in a heart attack, so I've always wondered a bit about that since as he's the only person I've known personally to have such an experience- and then not cloud it with Judeo-Christian overtones to boot. If nothing else though it's consolation to me to know that when it hit he recognized what was happening and wasn't afraid.

My dad was in a coma for a few weeks. At one point, he had a heart attack, coded, and was deceased for 30 minutes. They managed to resuscitate him. I was sitting at his side when he came out of his coma, and I'll never forget his first words. "I died". It was all he could barely squeak out. Over the next days, weeks, and months, he shared his near death experience with me- and he is/was an atheist. Interestingly enough, he didn't go to heaven. He was pretty damn sure he was in hell, or at least on his way. I found all of this fascinating. He certainly believes something happened. I'd like to believe there's something after, but my own jury will be out until I hit that point.

/my own CSB


"Hell" NDEs have been documented as well, but with less frequency. If there is no afterlife then we all might have to face the judgment of our own conscience as we ride our personal psychedelic death trip to oblivion,
 
2012-10-08 11:24:25 PM  
Erm, i'm sorry if people misunderstood my intentional snark and thought my capslock rant was in earnest. I was basically mocking the atheists here who read the first paragraph and scream "bullshiat!" at the man's claim.

Look, i don't know if an afterlife exists, but i hope it does. It sounds neat. As an agnostic, i'm not sold on Christian dogma, but neither am i sold on the knee-jerk atheist position that this question is settled, science has decided, end of story. Not only is it logically ludicrous, but it's depressingly cynical. I'm not saying we should be doe-eyed optimists, but there's something creepy about atheists strutting around trumpeting their embrace of oblivion.

My atheist friends say that they just can't imagine an afterlife where things are just "given" or "handed" to them, a fairytale that just exists like free birthday cake. But then, i would imagine that this life is the same -- we didn't work and design our circulatory systems or the planet or any of the incredible systems that make life possible. It was all just a given. To me, a universe where life is eternal is equally as likely as one where life is ephemeral. The fact that life exists at all is beyond comprehension. When atheists smugly assert that "oh, particles colliding will just lead to consciousness somehow, no big deal" are missing something.
 
2012-10-08 11:32:28 PM  

ELF Radio: As an agnostic, i'm not sold on Christian dogma, but neither am i sold on the knee-jerk atheist position that this question is settled, science has decided, end of story. Not only is it logically ludicrous, but it's depressingly cynical. I'm not saying we should be doe-eyed optimists, but there's something creepy about atheists strutting around trumpeting their embrace of oblivion.


You know how I know you have no idea what the null hypothesis is?
 
2012-10-08 11:46:00 PM  

crazyeddie: ELF Radio: As an agnostic, i'm not sold on Christian dogma, but neither am i sold on the knee-jerk atheist position that this question is settled, science has decided, end of story. Not only is it logically ludicrous, but it's depressingly cynical. I'm not saying we should be doe-eyed optimists, but there's something creepy about atheists strutting around trumpeting their embrace of oblivion.

You know how I know you have no idea what the null hypothesis is?


Want to know how the rest of us know that you don't?

In practice, using a single dataset to evaluate or test a large number of different null hypotheses that are in fact true will lead to erroneous conclusions unless appropriate corrections are made to the testing procedure

He hasn't made an assumption based on the concept.
 
2012-10-08 11:46:21 PM  

FloydA: That's not "heaven,"


damn
 
2012-10-09 12:15:24 AM  
To all the people shouting "There is no god, you are all fools"....you sound just like all the people shouting "There is a god, your are all fools". Neither of you can prove your points, so just accept that and stop shouting.
 
2012-10-09 12:33:29 AM  

AbbeySomeone: Babwa Wawa: me texan:
Attitudes like yours are why more people don't share their experiences. If it hasn't happened to you or it's something you can't imagine or understand it isn't real, right?


Why yes, just the other day I was thinking "Oh, my, this interweb thing will likely shut down soon b/c so few people want to share their ideas and experiences." Sad, really.
 
2012-10-09 12:38:09 AM  

DeadGeek: FTFA: "When first I saw her, we were riding along together on an intricately patterned surface"

[dettoldisney.files.wordpress.com image 399x236]


This one time, I did so many whippets...
 
2012-10-09 12:41:20 AM  

ToeKnee666: JuddyBuddy77: DMT

I was going to say the same thing. Sounds exactly like my most intense DMT experience. But I wonder if this guy, with his rightward turn toward believing it was "heaven" at the end of the article, would dismiss these experiences since they don't line up with his pre-determined outcome.

I mean, if you read any of the druggy lit you'll find something in common between this story and the most lucid of their claims.


an endogenous release of DMT from the pineal gland is an amazing and revealing experience

mine lasted for days (calculated in retrospect, of course)

seen the other side
pretty darn cool

is it real or is it memorex?

don't know/don't care

there was no beginning
there will be no end
glory to now the highest
there are worlds without end

Amen
 
2012-10-09 01:37:55 AM  
In a nutshell, the problem with trying to discuss this sort of thing, is this:

McCoy: Perhaps, we could cover a little philosophical ground. Life
[pause]
McCoy: Death
[pause]
McCoy: Life.
[pause]
McCoy: Things of that nature.
Spock: I did not have time on Vulcan to review the philosophical disciplines.
McCoy: C'mon, Spock, it's me, McCoy. You really have gone where no man's gone before. Can't you tell me what it felt like?
Spock: It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame-of-reference.
McCoy: You're joking!
Spock: A joke
[pause]
Spock: is a story with a humorous climax.
McCoy: You mean I have to die to discuss your insights on death?
Spock: Forgive me, Doctor. I am receiving a number of distress calls.
McCoy: I don't doubt it.
 
2012-10-09 02:00:22 AM  

Rik01: I like to believe that a higher power designed and enabled all of this. Call it Intelligent Design. I also like to believe that when we die, we can be born again as someone else. Reincarnation. I figure that over the billions of years we've existed, even Heaven would tend to get full with the trillions of souls streaming there.


Maybe we're all Sims.

/ at least the railing in swimming pools I've been in didn't magically disappear.....
 
2012-10-09 02:52:52 AM  
I've experienced deja vu. Very weird. Until someone figured out that the brain normally routes sensations to short term memory and then picks and chooses which to pass on to long term memory. Except when this momentarily breaks down, and the experience is sent to long term memory in parallel, and saved while short term memory is still processing. Short term memory then tries to forward to long term memory except that the memory is already there, creating two copies of the same event in long term memory. Hence the deja vu effect. We haven't learned every thing about the brain, but my money is on science over religion.

My real question is this- If he really, really, really, believes 'heaven' is so wonderful, why didn't he
immediate kill himself to get back to it?
As a doctor, why is he still saving lives and denying his patients the peace of the afterlife?


Old joke, but makes my point

An 85-year-old couple, having been married almost 60 years, died in a car crash. They had been in good health the last 10 years, mainly due to the wife's interest in health food and exercise.

When they reached the Pearly Gates, St. Peter took them to their mansion, which was decked out with a beautiful kitchen and master bath suite and Jacuzzi.

As they "oohed and aahed," the old man asked Peter how much all this was going to cost.

"It's free," Peter replied, "this is Heaven."

Next they went out back to survey the championship golf course that the home backed up to. They would have golfing privileges every day, and each week the course changed to a new one, representing the great golf courses on Earth. The old man asked, "What are the green fees?"

Peter's reply, "This is Heaven, you play for free."

Next they went to the club house and saw the lavish buffet lunch with the cuisines of the world laid out.

"How much to eat?" asked the old man. "Don't you understand yet? This is Heaven, it's free!" Peter replied with some exasperation.

"Well, where are the low-fat and low-cholesterol tables?" the old man asked timidly.

Peter lectured, "That's the best part -- you can eat as much as you like of whatever you like, and you never get fat or sick. This is Heaven."

With that the old man went into a fit of anger, throwing down his hat and stomping on it, shrieking wildly.

Peter and his wife both tried to calm him down, asking him what was wrong.

The old man looked at his wife and said, "This is all your fault. If it weren't for your bran muffins, I could have been here 10 years ago!"
 
2012-10-09 03:31:04 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I've been to hell. That is Satan's V6 Mustang. He's the manager.


Bwahahaha!!!!
 
2012-10-09 04:10:41 AM  

prekrasno: I doubt the human interpretations of experiences like these, mainly because every one I've ever heard was from a person who was already a Christian, or reared in church but "fell away" as an adult. Their (and our) understanding of the genuine experience just might be tainted by what they already know. Where are the near-death experiences from people who have never been to church, or never knew about Christianity? Where are the converted Muslims, Jews, or Zoroastrians who became Christians after their own NDE's? Good on this man who reaffirmed his faith as a result of his experience; I don't denigrate him for that -- although I have no reason to disbelieve NDE's, I do doubt anyone who uses these as examples of proof of one religion or another.


Hey there. Um. An old fark article about miners trapped below ground and awaiting death - somebody posted a link to:

Nderf.org

Take it for what you will.. it's been up for a few years. I'm positive that some portion of it is bald faced lies, some more is people lying to themselves and then an unknown percentage of what might be termed authentic.

/based on my reading, people tend to see what they expect.
 
2012-10-09 04:18:04 AM  

Neverbody: Tweet of God:
99.9999% of all near death experiences end in death.


*internet high five*
 
Displayed 50 of 534 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking

On Twitter





Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report