miscreant: nmemkha: miscreant: a good number of posters have engaged you in very reasoned discussion.

And I answered them reasonably (just I am answering you know). What is your point?

Well, let's see. You started the thread by calling atheists assholes (albeit indirectly so you could claim innocence), then you got called on it and pointed to the one guy spewing vitriol in all caps as some sort of proof that atheists were assholes. I pointed out that you were concentrating on one guy in a thread full of atheists, and that a good number of atheists had responded to you with quite reasonably and you were only paying attention to the one loud mouth idiot, which would seem to indicate a confirmation bias on your part... not to mention proving your contention that all atheists are assholes to be bullshiat.

My original statement did not contain the word "asshole". Some other than me replied with that assessment.

I don't think this is going to do anything other than challenge or confirm what people already believe about what happens after death. His experience was extremely positive, which is something that most NDEs seem to have in common (notwithstanding suicide-attempt NDEs).
 
He had a good and uplifting and vivid recollection of the event. That's fantastic--I hope I do, too. I don't think that this constitutes proof and I don't think he was trying to put forth his subjective experience as objective proof. To me, it seemed that he was saying that in his experience, a flatline in that part of the brain would suggest that he shouldn't have been able to either experience or remember it, and therefore our theory of how experience is tied to that part of the brain needs to be revised, since his own experience is contrary to that theory.

Melvin Lovecraft: My opinion:

I once had a motorcycle accident that left me comatose for about a week. I don't remember a thing about it; my last memory was playing pool in a bar with a girl from Connecticut who had an awesome rack and I was winning. The next thing I knew, a week was gone and I was badly injured. There were no visions, fairies, butterflies or Jesus...nothing. (The loss of time was a bit frightening at first, but I got over it.) When I awoke, I thought, briefly, that I was in Hell, as my ex wife was there, hovering over me. She said the doctors didn't fix my broken stuff for about 8 hours after I came in due to a severe closed head injury and it was unclear if I was going to survive. I guess that gives me a near death experience.

The article guy says he had a near death experience. I can understand that. I can also understand that his credibility was shot as soon as he said he was a Christian (practicing or otherwise). What I can't understand are those who claim to have been "dead dead", as if they actually died and came back. I want to go on record as saying that doesn't happen. We may think that our machines can tell if something is dead or not, but we're wrong. Know how I know that? Because dead things don't come back to life. They just don't. That's what "dead" means. So anyone who says "I was dead and came back!" wasn't dead. Somewhere in their body the spark of life (for lack of a better term) was not extinguished. If it were, they would still be dead.

I remember reading an article once (probably here on Fark) that likened our brains to a computer. We can store vast amounts of data, both tangible and dreamy, but when the plug is pulled, it's all gone. When we die, our hard drive doesn't magically join a LAN of another consciousness.

Would life after death be awesome? Of course it would! It would make this terrestrial life seem not so...final. And it goes without saying that I could be wrong, and I kind of hope I am. But, it does pre ...

+1

Poppa Boner:
The only people who know what happens after you die are dead. This guy wasn't dead. I also don't count folks whose systems completely shut down but turned back on as people who have been dead. If they were dead they'd be dead... now and forever. So unless ya'll have an inter-dimensional long distance plan to chat with those who have passed just accept that there are things in the universe that we will never know as long as we are stuck in these bags of meat we call bodies. Just tried to find a nice slice of the world where you can be content, be nice to each other and STFU.

Peace out.

Well said.

Queensowntalia: czetie: There's nothing in this article or any other similar account that is more compelling than a dream.

Who says dreams can't be real?

I had a dream last night Johnny Depp and Hugh Jackman were taking turns giving me massages.

/I want to believe

Damn. The only celebrities in my dreams last night were Dirk Benedict and Andy Dick. Even my dreams are D-list.

/seriously, not making that up, sadly

Poppa Boner: Cheeseburger: but there's a difference between evidence and proof.

*facepalm*

nmemkha: Well said.

Thank you. And really I've got no problem with you or anyone really... just as long as the lines of communication can stay open. We need to learn from each other or we aren't gonna anywhere.

Anyway I've completely been ignoring what I intended to do today so I should get to work.

Agreed. Take care.

His brain was completely inactive?

What's his login?

Urbn: Langston: I don't think he was trying to put forth his subjective experience as objective proof.

Ummm...he titled his book 'Proof of Heaven'

Perhaps a bit catchier than "My experience which challenges the preconceived theories of higher brain function during clinical brain death"

Urbn: Langston: Urbn: Langston: I don't think he was trying to put forth his subjective experience as objective proof.

Ummm...he titled his book 'Proof of Heaven'

Perhaps a bit catchier than "My experience which challenges the preconceived theories of higher brain function during clinical brain death"

Yes, because that and the 'Proof of Heaven' were his only 2 options

/Words mean things
 
Obviously not his only two options, but one title is concise and gets people like you and I talking. Personally, if he's not using the word "proof" in his description and shows the restraint of a scientist and being accurate in the book itself, the title doesn't get my panties in a wad.

Didn't read the whole thread, so apologies if it's been posted already, but I came across this article today and think this is an appropriate place to drop it. (from Link)

"You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.

And at one point you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.

And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue the heat of our own lives.

And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy's still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you're just less orderly. Amen."

stainedglassdoll: Didn't read the whole thread, so apologies if it's been posted already, but I came across this article today and think this is an appropriate place to drop it. (from Link)

"You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.

And at one point you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.

And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue the heat of our own lives.

And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. L ...

beautiful.