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(Newsweek)   Many people have claimed near-death experiences, but few are as interesting or detailed as that of one neurosurgeon who describes seven days spent in Heaven while his brain was completely inactive   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 543
    More: Interesting, scientific explanations  
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28038 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Oct 2012 at 12:39 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-08 04:09:37 PM  
aw. well, i should've known he was an idiot when he mentioned being a christian...
 
2012-10-08 04:09:45 PM  

Andromeda: CSB: I had a non-religious friend who I respected to the utmost and had a "life after death" experience in Vietnam when for a few minutes he was critically brain dead. He would be driven to tears trying to explain it because a lot of it he didn't understand, but there were strange details like how he thought he smelled bread baking and there were relatives who died years ago there, but when he was given the chance to return he took it then woke up in the hospital again (though he wondered for years afterwards if it was worth it considering how much rehabilitating pain he had from his injuries).

Guy was, as I said earlier, not religious so he willingly acknowledged it could all just be his brain shutting down... but he could never quite believe it because then why would he be given the choice to return? Weird thing to put in a shut-down mode.

Friend died a few years ago in a heart attack, so I've always wondered a bit about that since as he's the only person I've known personally to have such an experience- and then not cloud it with Judeo-Christian overtones to boot. If nothing else though it's consolation to me to know that when it hit he recognized what was happening and wasn't afraid.


The same thing happened to my father, an athiest, between strokes. I sat with him in the hospital while he tried to explain what he experienced. Tears just poured out of his eyes while he spoke of it and he didn't brush the tears away until he was done speaking and seemed to break out of this wonderful ecstasy he was recalling. This guy NEVER cried before. Of course, having strokes could explain him being extra emotional; his brain had been a bit scrambled. But he spoke with such conviction and was so SURE of what happened. The people he encountered. The landscape of where he visited. The beautiful sounds. Very similar to this doctor's experiences from the article.

He questioned his choice to leave the Catholic church as a young adult and questioned what happens after death. Was he right to turn his back on such amazing possibilities? He didn't bring it up again before he died (some 6 months later). It was almost as if he'd forgotten about it. I brought it up a couple of months before he died because I thought it was interesting and wanted to see if he remembered it, or if it was just some stroke-induced hallucination. When I brought it up, he stared at me and weeped. He said he remembered and asked that I not tell my siblings about it because they were too closed-minded to take him seriously. He didn't tell anyone else about it. It was a secret between us. I saw in his face that he'd be perfectly happy to go back to that place whenever he died. It was the only thing that comforted me when he did.

/Yes, I believe he believed what he experienced. There's no proof he did or didn't, but I hope there was something like that waiting for him when he died.
//He still died as an athiest, but when his plug was pulled, I allowed the nurse in the room to pray over his body. I think he would have been more offended by being on life support than a well meaning nurse praying for his protection in death. I think at that stage he would have welcomed it.
///farking dusty in here
 
2012-10-08 04:11:25 PM  

HortusMatris: nmemkha: meat0918: You haven't met many atheists then, or more likely you're letting your biases get in the way of your view of them.

I've yet to meet one that outright dismisses the spiritual cannot exist. Not one is 100% certain of it. It's just that the evidence for the literal Biblical interpretation of God (which in my experience is typically what is being advocated by fundamentalists these days, you may or may not be one of them) is quite lacking in the face of the current level of scientific understanding. Fit him in the gaps if you must, but don't try to legislate him into those gaps or reopen ones long since closed.

I think we're potentia ...

Fair enough. But, look at this thread. How many posts are snarky statement belittling religion and religious people. How many are theists doing the same?

Welcome to Fark. If you'd like to see the roles reversed, go to Free Republic or some other online conservative forum.

/+5 points for number of bites you've received, -several more for lack of style.


Fark is not an Atheist forum. Last I checked it was open to everyone.
 
2012-10-08 04:13:04 PM  
I passed out once and spent a whole day doing all kinds of crazy shiat with intense colors all around me like I was on acid. I was apparently out for about 10 seconds. As far as I know the whole thing played out in the seconds before he opened his eyes.
 
2012-10-08 04:13:34 PM  

HortusMatris: Welcome to Fark. If you'd like to see the roles reversed, go to Free Republic or some other online conservative forum.

/+5 points for number of bites you've received, -several more for lack of style.


Just because there are impassioned idiots on both sides doesn't mean we have to wallow in the mud with them. Am I right? Look to the thread to see who is spewing vitriol in ALL CAPS.
 
2012-10-08 04:15:06 PM  

Gaius: The Billdozer: Gaius: Following a car accident, I spent a week in an induced coma. The coma is so deep that there is virtually no brain activity so you are put on life support. I don't remember a damn thing about it; no lights, no voices, nothing.

That's what makes these experiences of NDEs (and Out of Body experiences, especially when they have verified information) so interesting. To our understanding of science and neuroscience in particular, they absolutely should not happen. Period. When people are conscious during life-threatening situations or just after being resuscitated, they usually are distressed, jumbled, groggy, disorganized and unaware of events. The NDE experiences describe experiences that are completely coherent, aware, and more real than reality itself. When people go on DMT trips, they experience a distorted view of reality and are aware that it is distorted. NDE experiences describe something that feels realer than real and nothing that would be out of the ordinary (distorted body image, elongated limbs, etc.) aside from being dead. And while there are a few negative ones, most have certain basic similarities about knowledge of existence, universal love and acceptance, etc and although some do have eastern/western religious influence, not many are "Ok, here's Jesus taking me to see St. Peter in heaven" but of something that is basically a universal feeling of love and oneness. Or, at least that is what is reported.

I had a religious upbringing, although I never truly believed. Studying philosophy in college further reinforced that feeling, and instilled in me an Epicurean view on death; that there is nothing after life. Perhaps my views on life and death influenced me on the most basic of subconscious levels, preventing a NDE.

Whatever the case, after reading this article I feel jipped.


This wont help with anything, but I've always found it funny: Earlier this year I had two surgeries back to back days for body contouring (lost a ton of weight and had to cut the excess off). The first went fine, but I sprung a leak in my back flank which was making me bleed internally. When they were putting me back into the room for surgery the next morning, I had already been knocked out once the day before and had no experience of anything (but I do believe in... [its complicated, lets say]) but the second time I really had to urinate. The second time they were putting me under I just said out loud right before I went out: "God, you know I love ya. Please don't let me be the asshole who dies on the table and pisses on everything."
 
2012-10-08 04:15:15 PM  

The Billdozer: Saul/Paul was hunting down this group of people that were following some guy around who said he was the Messiah and became their biggest supporter in human history. Sometimes all it takes is the turnaround of one enemy to make an idea have flight.


As much as we humans all like it when someone who previously disagreed with us does an about-face and starts agreeing with us, that's still not proof of anything, especially when people are switching from either side all the time. (I hightly doubt you'd accept the existence of The Clergy Project or the millions of ex-religious folks out there as a strike against the existence of the supernatural.) If I was feeling particularly ornery, I might argue that conversion away from a viewpoint that claims to be transcendentally veridical is more damning than conversion away from one that admits it exists in the same imperfect brains as any other idea, but that's not something I'd prefer to harp on today.
 
2012-10-08 04:17:03 PM  
for some, it is of utmost importance that there exists no god, no afterlife, no soul, etc.

articles like this will keep them up at night.
 
2012-10-08 04:18:55 PM  

nmemkha: HortusMatris: nmemkha: meat0918: You haven't met many atheists then, or more likely you're letting your biases get in the way of your view of them.

I've yet to meet one that outright dismisses the spiritual cannot exist. Not one is 100% certain of it. It's just that the evidence for the literal Biblical interpretation of God (which in my experience is typically what is being advocated by fundamentalists these days, you may or may not be one of them) is quite lacking in the face of the current level of scientific understanding. Fit him in the gaps if you must, but don't try to legislate him into those gaps or reopen ones long since closed.

I think we're potentia ...

Fair enough. But, look at this thread. How many posts are snarky statement belittling religion and religious people. How many are theists doing the same?

Welcome to Fark. If you'd like to see the roles reversed, go to Free Republic or some other online conservative forum.

/+5 points for number of bites you've received, -several more for lack of style.

Fark is not an Atheist forum. Last I checked it was open to everyone.


Fark is an Atheist forum with a daily Atheist circlejerk, check again.
 
2012-10-08 04:19:32 PM  
Also, re: my story above. I'm not religious. Athiest dad taught me to question everything. I still think his story was really cool.
 
2012-10-08 04:20:14 PM  

nmemkha: I am sorry, but it is not. I suggest you reread my posts.


nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.



nmemkha: Pathman: nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.

uh - no, those people are called assholes.

There's a difference?

 
2012-10-08 04:21:45 PM  

falcon176: nmemkha: HortusMatris: nmemkha: meat0918: You haven't met many atheists then, or more likely you're letting your biases get in the way of your view of them.

I've yet to meet one that outright dismisses the spiritual cannot exist. Not one is 100% certain of it. It's just that the evidence for the literal Biblical interpretation of God (which in my experience is typically what is being advocated by fundamentalists these days, you may or may not be one of them) is quite lacking in the face of the current level of scientific understanding. Fit him in the gaps if you must, but don't try to legislate him into those gaps or reopen ones long since closed.

I think we're potentia ...

Fair enough. But, look at this thread. How many posts are snarky statement belittling religion and religious people. How many are theists doing the same?

Welcome to Fark. If you'd like to see the roles reversed, go to Free Republic or some other online conservative forum.

/+5 points for number of bites you've received, -several more for lack of style.

Fark is not an Atheist forum. Last I checked it was open to everyone.

Fark is an Atheist forum with a daily Atheist circlejerk, check again.


Ew. TMI
 
2012-10-08 04:22:00 PM  
Hmm, a couple of CTs at fixed time points doesn't indicate that his brain is always "off." The fact he experienced anything is proof that his brain was working in some capacity.
 
2012-10-08 04:22:41 PM  

colon_pow: for some, it is of utmost importance that there exists no god, no afterlife, no soul, etc.

articles like this will keep them up at night.


Some of us just know that fairy tails are just that, that every bit of theology is hearsay, and anything I can think up about god in my own imagination is just as valid as what ANYBODY has ever thought or said about it. I just know that what my imagination thinks up doesn't make it real. Simple fact is that neither you, or I, or anyone knows anything. You just happen to believe someone elses imagination is true.
 
2012-10-08 04:23:44 PM  

Pathman: nmemkha: I am sorry, but it is not. I suggest you reread my posts.

nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.


nmemkha: Pathman: nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.

uh - no, those people are called assholes.

There's a difference?


I see no statement only a question. The "Begging the Question" fallacy could be applied, but I already stated my statement was purposefully provocative. But, you laughably continue trying to damn me with the a statement I never made.
 
2012-10-08 04:24:38 PM  

craig328: poonesfarm: Although I considered myself a faithful Christian... I sympathized deeply with those who wanted to believe that there was a God somewhere out there who loved us unconditionally. In fact, I envied such people the security that those beliefs no doubt provided. But as a scientist, I simply knew better than to believe them myself.

Uh...what?

It's a common misconception by those who cannot think in anything but binary concepts. Being a scientist and believing in God aren't and never have been mutually exclusive conditions. They only seem so to those lacking in experience in either but who like to believe they're enlightened, intelligent and educated.


Sure, but what is a "faithful Christian" who doesn't believe in God? I know plenty of scientists and scientific types who are theists of one sort or another, but the way his is written makes it seems oxymoronic unless, as Callous pointed out, he means he was just going through the motions without actually believing.
 
2012-10-08 04:25:10 PM  

The Billdozer: I don't know you whatsoever, but this seems to be bothering you. Why not just write to a letter to the editor of find a journal to publish your dissatisfaction with this book or idea? People who have argued cases against the paranormal aspect of NDEs before on a site or amazon review (Worlee in the case of Pam Reynolds) have been published before or asked to speculate.


There is no changing the minds of the willfully ignorant as has been demonstrated here. It's like trying to put out a forest fire by taking a piss on it. Perhaps when I have some credentials behind me I'd be able to make at least a small dent in the stupidity society is currently descending in to. However I do not even dispute the man's claims nor the claims of those who have faith. I dispute that it is solid fact. NOBODY can know the full extent the mysteries of the human mind and the universe hold. Anyone who claims to should not be trusted.

And I dare anyone to find a statement I've made here claiming I do.
 
2012-10-08 04:25:42 PM  

nmemkha: Fark is not an Atheist forum. Last I checked it was open to everyone.


It's not an atheist forum, but the demographic does tend to be a large number of atheists (and democrats). Especially in religion threads, you tend to get a lot of atheists here.

nmemkha: Just because there are impassioned idiots on both sides doesn't mean we have to wallow in the mud with them. Am I right? Look to the thread to see who is spewing vitriol in ALL CAPS.


In a forum with more atheists, you're more likely to get the vitriol from atheists. As he said, go to freerepublic.com and see who is spewing the vitriol there. If you express an opinion outside of a very narrow party line over there, you'll be banned. A lot of them wouldn't even allow atheists to speak if given the choice. Should I therefore conclude that all conservative Christians are vitriol spewing authoritarian censorship loving douchebags? Because you're painting all atheists with a nice broad brush due to one guy spewing some crap in all caps, while at the same time a good number of posters have engaged you in very reasoned discussion. So you're ignoring everyone else and forming your opinion based solely on one post above?
 
2012-10-08 04:27:27 PM  

miscreant: a good number of posters have engaged you in very reasoned discussion.


And I answered them reasonably (just I am answering you know). What is your point?
 
2012-10-08 04:31:17 PM  

nmemkha: HortusMatris: Welcome to Fark. If you'd like to see the roles reversed, go to Free Republic or some other online conservative forum.

/+5 points for number of bites you've received, -several more for lack of style.

Just because there are impassioned idiots on both sides doesn't mean we have to wallow in the mud with them. Am I right? Look to the thread to see who is spewing vitriol in ALL CAPS.


Well no, but the mud does wonders for my complexion. Sure beats paying a fortune at one of those fancy salons!
 
2012-10-08 04:32:11 PM  

HortusMatris: nmemkha: HortusMatris: Welcome to Fark. If you'd like to see the roles reversed, go to Free Republic or some other online conservative forum.

/+5 points for number of bites you've received, -several more for lack of style.

Just because there are impassioned idiots on both sides doesn't mean we have to wallow in the mud with them. Am I right? Look to the thread to see who is spewing vitriol in ALL CAPS.

Well no, but the mud does wonders for my complexion. Sure beats paying a fortune at one of those fancy salons!


To each his own, I say. Enjoy!
 
2012-10-08 04:33:27 PM  
When I was about 10 I had a wicked out-of-body (or bad trip) I'd never want to experience again. Although I think I was out for only a few minutes it was at least a day's worth of time to me. I was blowing into a motorcycle gas tank to build up pressure and holding a coffee can underneath the tank valve to get some gas for the mower. All of the air went back into my lungs. I stood up and started hearing a deafining loud buzz. My legs and arms went rigid and I saw a glistening metal diagonal mesh form around my arms, legs, and torso that felt like it was shocking me. Then I fell over backwards.

During that time all turned dark and I saw Ohhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooo scroll across the black in vivid huge white letters. Then I was traveling with dark shapes for hours on a glossy black endless plane. They didn't have faces and all you could hear was a rushing wind sound. Everything was cold.

The shapes dissolved as this mountainous black human brain encased in mesh appeared in the sky slowly revolving. Then I was a tiny white light stuck inside the hollow brain as it revolved faster. A small opening started to form and somehow I (the ball) shot towards it and missed and I was bouncing around inside as it spun. This seemed to go on for about an hour. (Had I incorporated bingo into this somehow?)

Eventually I hit the hole and I was aware of being able to see the tree limbs and the sky. I lifted my head and looked down and all I saw was dirt and pineneedles. Within about a minute my body rematerialized over the dirt. Farking scared the crap out of me and I can still remember it vividly. And that was over 30 years ago. I don't think I was dead or anything so it probably doesn't count, but I was 100% sure during the episode that I was. I assume it was probably just a really bad convulsion.
 
2012-10-08 04:34:21 PM  
Where are the new souls coming from?


Like everything else, manufactured in China
 
2012-10-08 04:34:35 PM  

ELF Radio: RAAAARGH SHUT UP ALL YOU WEAK, SNIVELING BABIES WHO THINK LIFE HAS MEANING OR SOME GAY SHIAT LIKE THAT. WE ARE ANIMAL-MACHINES THAT SPRANG INEXPLICABLY FROM NOTHING AND WE EAT AND FARK AND DIE AND THAT IS ALL. NOTHING ELSE EXISTS AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHER WISE IS A LAME DICK WHO CANT DEAL WITH REALITY.

WHY DONT YOU FAIRIES GO BECOME REPUBLICANS AND VOTE FOR MITT ROMENY IF YOU BELIEVE THIS NANCY QUEER AND HIS HALLUCINATROY BULLSHIAT.


Yes, I see you're upset and desperately want us all to believe that in the beginning there was nothing but somehow nothing became something (inexplicably?). And if you take big balls of nothing gas and explode them, then you get something. I see. Nice try, though and good luck with all your nothing.

1/10
 
2012-10-08 04:36:08 PM  

cowsspinach: I recall watching this Dr's experience on the TV show I Survived; Beyond & Back. I immediately thought the Dr was kind of coo coo but why on earth would anyone make this shiat up?



/Shrugs


That's a good question.

Since telling a story like this pretty much guarantees a large portion of the world will now think you're nuts and not to be trusted. Why would you do that? Even for a substantial amount of money, it gets tough to not be able to go the store or a little league game without people giving you weird looks and not talking to you.

A few church goers supporting you just isn't going to make that much of a difference.
 
2012-10-08 04:36:18 PM  
I'm reminded of Dr. Jill Taylor's experience of having a stroke, described at her presentation at TED some years ago:

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insig h t.html

One of the things she mentions, in particular, is that the concept of an identity independent of the world around oneself is a mental construct. The systems maintiaining that construct can be damaged and / or destroyed, leaving one with, apparently, a profound sense of connectedness to the world around.

Personal opinion: There's some truth to this way of thinking, and if one wants to think of it as a spiritual truth, I'm okay with that.
 
2012-10-08 04:36:44 PM  

Poppa Boner: The Billdozer: I don't know you whatsoever, but this seems to be bothering you. Why not just write to a letter to the editor of find a journal to publish your dissatisfaction with this book or idea? People who have argued cases against the paranormal aspect of NDEs before on a site or amazon review (Worlee in the case of Pam Reynolds) have been published before or asked to speculate.

There is no changing the minds of the willfully ignorant as has been demonstrated here. It's like trying to put out a forest fire by taking a piss on it. Perhaps when I have some credentials behind me I'd be able to make at least a small dent in the stupidity society is currently descending in to. However I do not even dispute the man's claims nor the claims of those who have faith. I dispute that it is solid fact. NOBODY can know the full extent the mysteries of the human mind and the universe hold. Anyone who claims to should not be trusted.

And I dare anyone to find a statement I've made here claiming I do.


I do like your viewpoint, but i would say that if you were this mad about this, I would suggest stocking up on Gatorade because going up against everyone who guarantees salvation or oblivion at the end may make you a bit tired.
 
GBB
2012-10-08 04:38:41 PM  
I don't know about you, but I can't trust a guy that got kicked out of heaven within a week.
 
2012-10-08 04:39:15 PM  
StoPPeRmobile:
So, why don't you have any memory of before you were born?

/death is exactly like that, probably.


You know it's weird alot of people have said this. But it makes very little sense to me. Nobody fears the oncoming train they can't see, but it's pants saturating unfun to know you're about to get hit by the train.

Springing into existance; Pretty damn awesome. You suddenly take those first steps into being you start to become aware that you are you and that there's an exterior existence of some variety that's unfolding around you all the time. There was nothing to be afraid of in coming into existance because you weren't around to worry.

Springing out of existance; Pretty damn terrifying. The uniquiness that is me will cease to be and I'm aware that the moment of unbeing in nigh! NIGH I SAY! So the fact that the universe or whatever was unconcerned with my nonexistance prior to me existing is of no comfort now that I have briefly been existing and have developed a taste for it.
 
2012-10-08 04:39:32 PM  

Cheeseburger: Farking Canuck: "say "the jury's still out" when your world view is challenged" - We are not a group. We do not have a collective "world view". An anecdote is not challenging anything because it is not real evidence of anything.

I disagree. Atheists do constitute a "group", just as theists form a group. Particular beliefs may be different within those groups, but they can still be categorized as "groups", because when it comes to belief/disbelief in God, those views are held in common. And to say that belief in God, or disbelief in God, isn't part of a worldview, imo, is just incorrect.


But a theist's belief in God and his other beliefs are all tied together and will generally fall in line with other theists of the same denomination. This tie between the belief in God and the other teachings of a religion are what defines a religion. Hence the very small differences between different religions that hate each other such as Christianity and Islam. An atheist's non-belief in God is not tied to any other belief structure. This is a very important distinction. And before somebody says it, they don't "believe in science". Science just is. It does not ask for your belief.
 
2012-10-08 04:39:54 PM  

Inhalien: Yes, I see you're upset and desperately want us all to believe that in the beginning there was nothing but somehow nothing became something (inexplicably?). And if you take big balls of nothing gas and explode them, then you get something. I see. Nice try, though and good luck with all your nothing.


To be fair the Big Bang is a pretty huge pill to swallow itself. I think the story of creation could be in reference to the BB but that brings up even crazier questions like how did the ancients get such knowledge. There are also MANY other ancient cultures who had a similar accounts of creation and many of them eerily describe something similar to the BB. Something crazy is indeed going on but f*cked if I know what it is and I certainly wouldn't be arrogant enough to claim my speculations are fact... and I'm a pretty arrogant POS.
 
2012-10-08 04:41:15 PM  

The Billdozer: I do like your viewpoint, but i would say that if you were this mad about this, I would suggest stocking up on Gatorade because going up against everyone who guarantees salvation or oblivion at the end may make you a bit tired.


Heh. I know. That's why I don't do this everyday. I'm getting too old for this sh*t. ;-)
 
2012-10-08 04:41:50 PM  

Poppa Boner: nmemkha: Poppa Boner: it is possible I'm an asshole though.

Well anyone who thinks "shouting down" others because they don't agree with their opinions is an asshole in my book.

/YMMV

After almost 2000 years of putting up with Christian bullsh*t and persecution people have a right to call you out on it. Believe whatever you want but keep it to yourself. Many religious people manage to do this quite easily. By your statements here it is apparent you are not one of those people... or you're a troll.

Either way you've just been smacked down by a guy who goes by Poppa Boner.

How does that make you feel?


I'm kind of in love with you for this.
 
2012-10-08 04:46:10 PM  

susansto-helit: I'm kind of in love with you for this.


After reviewing your profile I accept your love.

Let's party.
 
2012-10-08 04:46:29 PM  
groceries4u.fit.edu

For all the crybabies in this thread.
 
2012-10-08 04:47:36 PM  
I'd recommend to everyone a book called "Stroke of Insight" by Jill Bolte-Taylor. It's a neuroanatomist basically giving a scientific narration of her own experience of having a stroke.

It's really a fascinating read, and sounds like it may be a little more rooted in science than the book mentioned by the article. I don't know, it just sets of the "mysticism detector" in my skeptical mind.
 
2012-10-08 04:48:51 PM  

lostcat: It bugs me that a person (or soul) who isn't actually dead would be allowed into Heaven. It goes against my imaginary conception of Heaven to think that you could sneak in while in a coma, and then be let back out.

You'd think they'd have some policies in place around that situation.


I'm not sure it's really a gated community.
 
2012-10-08 04:49:16 PM  
The closest I ever came to actually dying that i remember was when i used to sell plasma. (yeah I was a bodily fluid whore) Anyway i never had a single problem until one day after I donated as I was walking out to the car i started to feel a bit funny. I looked down at my arm and i had blood running from where they had put in the iv thing to suck the blood out. I remember thinking that was weird because i never bleed out and then tunnel vision hit and I passed out. I woke up some time later (i have no idea how long I was out) and pulled myself back up to my feet and started stumbling back to the clinic. I was in rough shape but clinging on to consciousness. I get to the building and passed out yet again. I remember getting rolled over by some people and the clinic people were trying to get me to talk. The strange thing was that I could still see and hear, but i could not move or talk. And my heart was beating so fast I thought it was going to explode.

So they carry me back into the clinic and put me in a little room and check my blood pressure. It was 40/19. Now this is where it got interesting. One of the guys starts freaking out and saying they have to call an ambulance because I'm going to die. The other guy says they couldn't because that can shut down the clinic and that I'm a tough kid and will pull through. They go back and forth for awhile and then decide to check my pressure again and I guess it was a little better because they never did call an ambulance. But for me it was all hilarious to hear these two people arguing over if i'm going to die or not. that is what struck me the most. I wasn't scared or anything. I just found it all so amusing that i just said to myself "well it has been an interesting life and if you die then so be it" Just thinking about it now makes me laugh. (Now how close to death I actually was i don't know. i've never really looked into it. I always just figured that it couldn't have been that bad but i guess that low of a blood pressure is pretty bad)

Obviously i didn't die though. They mixed up some Gatorade (orange) in a little cup and started trying to get me to drink it. (basically pouring a little down my throat.) after a few hours I was feeling better and when my blood pressure got up to 70/50 (I think I don't remember that part as well) i finally convinced them that i felt good enough to drive home. And pretty much wrote it off as another good story to tell.
 
2012-10-08 04:49:18 PM  

craig328: Given the absoluteness of your statements, I wonder if you can sense the immense irony of them. I'm guessing not.


My certainty that an afterlife is unprovable by any living being is ironic? How so?
 
2012-10-08 04:49:30 PM  

ELF Radio: RAAAARGH SHUT UP ALL YOU WEAK, SNIVELING BABIES WHO THINK LIFE HAS MEANING OR SOME GAY SHIAT LIKE THAT. WE ARE ANIMAL-MACHINES THAT SPRANG INEXPLICABLY FROM NOTHING AND WE EAT AND FARK AND DIE AND THAT IS ALL. NOTHING ELSE EXISTS AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHER WISE IS A LAME DICK WHO CANT DEAL WITH REALITY.

WHY DONT YOU FAIRIES GO BECOME REPUBLICANS AND VOTE FOR MITT ROMENY IF YOU BELIEVE THIS NANCY QUEER AND HIS HALLUCINATROY BULLSHIAT.


You should be out somewhere taking what's yours, instead of sitting in a library using their public terminal. If life's that short and that meaningless then the Internet is stealing has stolen your soul.
 
2012-10-08 04:49:46 PM  

lilDave22: And before somebody says it, they don't "believe in science". Science just is. It does not ask for your belief.


LOL. Now THAT'S blind faith. To believe so strongly that you don't even believe your belief to be belief.
 
2012-10-08 04:50:44 PM  
Sooooooo,we just take this guy's word for it? Does this remind anyone else of "The Invention of Lying"?
 
2012-10-08 04:51:45 PM  

poonesfarm: craig328: poonesfarm: Although I considered myself a faithful Christian... I sympathized deeply with those who wanted to believe that there was a God somewhere out there who loved us unconditionally. In fact, I envied such people the security that those beliefs no doubt provided. But as a scientist, I simply knew better than to believe them myself.

Uh...what?

It's a common misconception by those who cannot think in anything but binary concepts. Being a scientist and believing in God aren't and never have been mutually exclusive conditions. They only seem so to those lacking in experience in either but who like to believe they're enlightened, intelligent and educated.

Sure, but what is a "faithful Christian" who doesn't believe in God? I know plenty of scientists and scientific types who are theists of one sort or another, but the way his is written makes it seems oxymoronic unless, as Callous pointed out, he means he was just going through the motions without actually believing.


My take on it is that he's someone who believes in God and probably Jesus but is maybe not so big on going to church. I'm much the same way. For personal experiences, I've come to believe there is something outside our possible realm of experience that we, as human beings, are ill equipped to describe and relate to. My personal belief is that there is something like God but I'm not into the once a week "go demonstrate my beliefs in front of my neighbors in church" routine.

One can be a believer in a spiritual situation without wishing to be identified with those who want to make that belief into an organized fan club.
 
2012-10-08 04:54:06 PM  
My opinion:

I once had a motorcycle accident that left me comatose for about a week. I don't remember a thing about it; my last memory was playing pool in a bar with a girl from Connecticut who had an awesome rack and I was winning. The next thing I knew, a week was gone and I was badly injured. There were no visions, fairies, butterflies or Jesus...nothing. (The loss of time was a bit frightening at first, but I got over it.) When I awoke, I thought, briefly, that I was in Hell, as my ex wife was there, hovering over me. She said the doctors didn't fix my broken stuff for about 8 hours after I came in due to a severe closed head injury and it was unclear if I was going to survive. I guess that gives me a near death experience.

The article guy says he had a near death experience. I can understand that. I can also understand that his credibility was shot as soon as he said he was a Christian (practicing or otherwise). What I can't understand are those who claim to have been "dead dead", as if they actually died and came back. I want to go on record as saying that doesn't happen. We may think that our machines can tell if something is dead or not, but we're wrong. Know how I know that? Because dead things don't come back to life. They just don't. That's what "dead" means. So anyone who says "I was dead and came back!" wasn't dead. Somewhere in their body the spark of life (for lack of a better term) was not extinguished. If it were, they would still be dead.

I remember reading an article once (probably here on Fark) that likened our brains to a computer. We can store vast amounts of data, both tangible and dreamy, but when the plug is pulled, it's all gone. When we die, our hard drive doesn't magically join a LAN of another consciousness.

Would life after death be awesome? Of course it would! It would make this terrestrial life seem not so...final. And it goes without saying that I could be wrong, and I kind of hope I am. But, it does present a strong case for living each day as if it were your last.
 
2012-10-08 04:54:51 PM  

falcon176: Fark is an Atheist forum with a daily Atheist circlejerk, check again.


What a burden you carry.
 
2012-10-08 04:56:00 PM  
Stupid. Obviously the 'scientist' has never been on shrooms.
 
2012-10-08 04:56:55 PM  

Inhalien:
Yes, I see you're upset and desperately want us all to believe that in the beginning there was nothing but somehow nothing became something (inexplicably?). And if you take big balls of nothing gas and explode them God, then you get something. I see. Nice try, though and good luck with all your nothingGod.


Same thing, only your theory also involves talking snakes and apples of doom.
 
2012-10-08 05:01:41 PM  

Melvin Lovecraft: My opinion:

I once had a motorcycle accident that left me comatose for about a week. I don't remember a thing about it; my last memory was playing pool in a bar with a girl from Connecticut who had an awesome rack and I was winning. The next thing I knew, a week was gone and I was badly injured. There were no visions, fairies, butterflies or Jesus...nothing. (The loss of time was a bit frightening at first, but I got over it.) When I awoke, I thought, briefly, that I was in Hell, as my ex wife was there, hovering over me. She said the doctors didn't fix my broken stuff for about 8 hours after I came in due to a severe closed head injury and it was unclear if I was going to survive. I guess that gives me a near death experience.

The article guy says he had a near death experience. I can understand that. I can also understand that his credibility was shot as soon as he said he was a Christian (practicing or otherwise). What I can't understand are those who claim to have been "dead dead", as if they actually died and came back. I want to go on record as saying that doesn't happen. We may think that our machines can tell if something is dead or not, but we're wrong. Know how I know that? Because dead things don't come back to life. They just don't. That's what "dead" means. So anyone who says "I was dead and came back!" wasn't dead. Somewhere in their body the spark of life (for lack of a better term) was not extinguished. If it were, they would still be dead.

I remember reading an article once (probably here on Fark) that likened our brains to a computer. We can store vast amounts of data, both tangible and dreamy, but when the plug is pulled, it's all gone. When we die, our hard drive doesn't magically join a LAN of another consciousness.

Would life after death be awesome? Of course it would! It would make this terrestrial life seem not so...final. And it goes without saying that I could be wrong, and I kind of hope I am. But, it does pre ...


From following this stuff for a bit, I was surprised that Alexander said he was sort of spiritual, as earlier reports/interviews/his site had indicated he was for a bit, but had an event in his life which basically killed it off for him back in 2000/early 2000s and his training in neuroscience basically solidified what he had been thinking all along until he had his NDE. From his book and his new foundation that he started with a few others, I doubt most Southern Baptists are gonna claim him as one of their own anytime soon.
 
2012-10-08 05:03:28 PM  

Son of Thunder: lilDave22: And before somebody says it, they don't "believe in science". Science just is. It does not ask for your belief.

LOL. Now THAT'S blind faith. To believe so strongly that you don't even believe your belief to be belief.


I hope my sarcasm meter is busted, and you aren't being serious. 2+2 does not require your belief to be 4. Neither does gravity need your belief to pull objects.
 
2012-10-08 05:03:57 PM  
After reading this guy's resume I seriously doubt he's doing this to sell books or make money. He's already well paid and professionally respected. Opening himself up to ridicule by his peers for a few bucks makes no sense. I have no idea what happened to this guy but I have no problem believing he is sincere.
 
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