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(Newsweek)   Many people have claimed near-death experiences, but few are as interesting or detailed as that of one neurosurgeon who describes seven days spent in Heaven while his brain was completely inactive   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 543
    More: Interesting, scientific explanations  
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28035 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Oct 2012 at 12:39 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-08 01:44:22 PM  

Son of Thunder: sufficient evidence


When did he supply any evidence at all other than a story? Seriously, I'd like to know because maybe I missed it in the article or something.
 
2012-10-08 01:44:55 PM  

xanadian: FTFA: In the fall of 2008, however, after seven days in a coma during which the human part of my brain, the neocortex, was inactivated

So...PART of the brain, not the WHOLE brain.

Got it.


Well, the neocortex IS the entire "mammalian" brain - without that, we have only the "reptilian brain" working (or so is my memory).
 
2012-10-08 01:45:10 PM  
www.thedailybeast.comimg245.imageshack.us
The doctor in question and his companion.

FTFA: For most of my journey, someone else was with me. A woman. She was young, and I remember what she looked like in complete detail. She had high cheekbones and deep-blue eyes. Golden brown tresses framed her lovely face.  

I'm sorry, doctor, slashie fan-fiction doesn't really cut it as science. Unless it's C3P0/Chewie
 
2012-10-08 01:45:24 PM  
Millennium
There is a disturbing element of dehumanization in the argument that one's opponents do not think. It also the concept of debate useless: there is no point in a meeting of minds if one of those minds doesn't acknowledge the other. It's also one of the most fundamentally dishonest arguments a person can make about other people: we think. It's what we do. It is a pity, then, that this line of argument has become fashionable among the atheists of our time to use it, because it makes it so easy to ignore such people as the zealots they are. They damage their own side more than they realize.

Believing without doubting or requiring evidence is not thinking.
 
2012-10-08 01:46:08 PM  

czetie: In the entire documented history of near death experiences, out-of-body experiences, visit-to-heaven experiences, etc., nobody has ever come back knowing some objective fact that they couldn't previously have known. Not even something as trivial as the fact that open-mined neurosurgeons have placed a piece of paper on top of one of the shelves in the operating theater that says "If you can read this, you are having a real out-of-body experience".


Except for the cases where people can describe their surgery and conversations the doctors had, yeah, there's absolutely none.
 
2012-10-08 01:46:31 PM  

Kibbler: You tell me you had to stand in line at something like a DMV, and they told you that you had the wrong form--now I'm a believer.


You've got to fill out a form first, then you wait in the line.
 
2012-10-08 01:47:21 PM  

Jack Kerouac: Perhaps this entire experience happened in the moments his brain was bouncing back to life, somewhat like how a dreamer may dream a whole day in the span of minutes.

/Devil's advocate
//Jungians would have a field-day with his experience


I beat you by about 20 seconds, but yours is phrased better
 
2012-10-08 01:47:33 PM  
letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

RanDomino:
"Religion" comes from the Latin root lig- or leg- which means 'bundle/together' as in "ligament" and "legion". The difference between spirituality and religion, for example, is that spirituality is individual whereas the key aspect of religion is that is a collective/social activity. There is no 'atheist church' or even a central atheist organization, so you are wrong and dumb.


Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.
 
2012-10-08 01:47:55 PM  

poonesfarm: Although I considered myself a faithful Christian... I sympathized deeply with those who wanted to believe that there was a God somewhere out there who loved us unconditionally. In fact, I envied such people the security that those beliefs no doubt provided. But as a scientist, I simply knew better than to believe them myself.

Uh...what?


He went through all the motions but didn't actually believe it. Go to a church/mosque/whatever sometime and participate in all the ceremony. You don't have to actually believe any of it to look like you do. I'm sure there are LOTS of people that were raised in those traditions and continue to practice simply because it's tradition. Their parents were Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/whatever so that's what they are.
 
2012-10-08 01:48:06 PM  
"Guy is religious. Guy has religious vision when he almost dies.If he had been completely non-religious, perhaps he would have had the neurons in his brain sending him on a different, non-religious journey.

Maybe to Wal-mart..."
 
2012-10-08 01:48:15 PM  

Kyro: [i1.kym-cdn.com image 200x200]

Jesus, Aliens, whatever. A lack of evidence or understanding is not evidence of magic.


"Faith" is what is seen sans evidence. We'll ALL know whether heaven/hell are real - unfortunately for most they'll have no say in where they go and too late to do anything about it!
 
2012-10-08 01:48:20 PM  

Millennium: One big thing separates the atheists from other sides in the ongoing religious debates: only atheists insist that their opponents do not think.


Citation needed.

I'm willing to bet there are plenty of religious sorts who'd make exactly that argument. Don't let that stop you from making generalizations based on your own prejudices, though, because what fun would that be?

/Jesus farking Christ, people.
//bbl, going to eat some babies.
 
2012-10-08 01:48:51 PM  

Richard Saunders: My experience was nothing like what he describes. For me it happened in a flash of awareness. No voices, no bright lights, no people, no clouds. Just an awareness that there was a very, VERY inviting and peaceful "place" I could've gone. In that instant (thinking of my children) my brain went - "No, they don't know how much I love them" and it was over.

I awoke 21 days later. During that time I had what I guess I'd now describe as dreams and/or hallucinations. There was/is a great difference between them and that moment of "awareness."

Yes, I was dead-dead. Resuscitated from flat-line six times in the first 26 hours.

Was it hypoxia? Maybe. Was it an afterlife? Dunno. Was it real? Yup. Do I hope that's what's waiting the next time my number is up? You betcha.

* - (Raised in the church, went occasionally as an adult, but wasn't necessarily a religious man. )

/not proselytizing
//just sayin'


interesting. what put you in the coma?
 
2012-10-08 01:49:19 PM  

susansto-helit: AbbeySomeone: Babwa Wawa: me texan: Just the fact that he didnt "Die Die" as you'd have it doesnt mean that just him surviving alone is a miraculous outcome. (notice, I didnt use the word "miracle"). As a fellow scientist by education, I found the article to be at the very least interesting and I have no reason to attack him or others for his change of belief based on his own individual observation.

You've posted twice in this discussion already - are you so afraid of something you cannot believe or so angry that you dont want to let people find calming words about their own death, even if it is misguided? What's the harm in letting others have their own beliefs, even you must acknowledge that after death it wont matter and wont change the outcome of their beliefs they hold while alive?

Don't get where you're getting "angry" and "afraid". When my mother died, she had faith in an afterlife - we had a priest at her side. I have zero issue with that. My issue with this particular instance is twofold:

1. When you have proof of something, it can be used to mandate behavior. If I have proof that fossil fuel use is linked to climate change, then I can use that knowledge to compel behavior. "Proof" of god, an afterlife, or any of that crap changes faith and belief into certainty. That is dangerous for society on a number of levels.

2. There's a very clear profit motive. This horsesh*t sells big.

Attitudes like yours are why more people don't share their experiences. If it hasn't happened to you or it's something you can't imagine or understand it isn't real, right?

Actually even if it has happened to me it doesn't mean it's real. The brain does weird things when it's shutting down. My personal experiences count for nothing in science.


I always found it entertaining to consider the opposite:

The universe is the culmination of MY experiences only.

Either way its fun to watch the argument.
 
2012-10-08 01:49:30 PM  
www.thedailybeast.com

I have a very simple rule of life, never believe anything said by anybody wearing a bow tie or a vest. If they're wearing both then get the hell out. I've heard much more impressive experiences from back in the good old days when the acid was really good. If he'd been Hindu he would have met Shiva, Kali and Ganesha and all the rest of that pantheon. I'm really not shocked he's making a quick buck from book sales instead of sharing this life altering information for free on the intratubes.
 
2012-10-08 01:50:04 PM  

grokca: Millennium: xanadian: FTFA: In the fall of 2008, however, after seven days in a coma during which the human part of my brain, the neocortex, was inactivated

So...PART of the brain, not the WHOLE brain.

Got it.

There is some scientific interest here: the part of his brain that shut down is the part that, according to our current understanding, should have been responsible for experiences like this. That doesn't necessarily mean his interpretation of what happened is correct, of course. But it does mean that we've missed something: if what he saw was a dream (which I think it was), then something can give rise to dreams which we hadn't considered. That has implications for neuroscience.

It could also be that this experience happened as the "human" part of his brain woke back up, As in dreams they seem to take a long period of time but are really just very short. As blood was re-flowing and the brain was "rebooting" all kinds of strange things could have been happening to it.


O.K., someone else has that theory, so it's not completely out of left field. It may or may not be true, but it surprises me that the Doctor didn't even seem to consider it. Also, I wonder if his neocortex was truly "off," for very long. His evidence seems to be the CT scan, but a) a CT scan is a snapshot, doesn't tell you what was going on the entire 7 days, and b) IIRC, CT doesn't tell you about functioning, only about structure, you need a PET scan or fMRI to determine functioning. The fact that a neuroscientist didn't consider these possibilities tells me that they are incorrect, or that he has a severe case of "I want to believe."
 
2012-10-08 01:50:06 PM  
In the fall of 2008, however, after seven days in a coma during which the human part of my brain, the neocortex, was inactivated, I experienced something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death.

Temporarily leaving aside the discussions of "narrow-minded skepticism" and "profit motive," I'm kind of surprised that nobody has taken issue with this statement in and of itself. This neurosurgeon is claiming that his "experience" took place while his neocortex was "inactive," which is a claim that I see no reason to take at face value. The fact that he's alive and functional now means that his neocortex eventually "reactivated," and I can't imagine that the swelling in his brain dissipated instantaneously, or that his brain function actually came online all at once, (regardless of the way he describes simply "opening his eyes.")

The fact that his neocortex was "turned off" for some period during his hospital stay does not prove that his out-of-body experience occurred during the same time period. I did not see that addressed anywhere in the article. Details are important, people.
 
2012-10-08 01:50:40 PM  
I was bludgeoned into a NDE by an angry toddler with a family sized bottle of Pert Plus. This is what I done seen:

s16.postimage.org

So relax chilluns, it is all gravy.
 
2012-10-08 01:51:22 PM  
Good find, Subby. It's a nice, thought provoking article.

b>WARNING! Long dissertation.

I can already sense the detractors and scoffers assembling their forces of denial, many with hard, clear and comprehensive facts. However, I'm not sure if they get it. I don't think I got all of it.

I'm a bipolar depressive, which tends to make me see the bad things in life. I'm also rather intelligent, meaning I can make 'quantum leaps' of thought at times and see the 'Big Picture'. However, explaining what I grasped isn't always easy.

My own concept of God and religion has taken many turns since I was a kid in church. I no longer go to any church due to the hypocrisy which exists there, though I understand the human tendency which creates this. I Believe, but in a different way.

I no longer consider an religious tests to be fact and final, having discovered the frailties and faults of the humans who wrote them and seeing for myself first hand, the psychological condition of fanaticism, which ranged from people like Hitler to the Amish to Islam to Communism and even Democracy. I know of Jonestown and David Koresh and their followers. I've seen prophets come and go, the majority in it for power and cash, many just fanatics bordering on the psychotic and a rare, few True Believers.

Pretty much, if it can be f**ked up, humans will do it.

I recall the 'Black Shirts' from the Vietnam war. If you don't get the reference, look it up. They were trained by Communist China. I recall the Great Dream of Communism, which was promptly bastardized and warped by Lenin when he took power. Later, his compatriot in the Great Revolution, Stalin, killed him off to become a merciless, psychotic dictator.

I watched with annoyance and disgust as the 'Phone Psychic' craze swept the nation of presumably intelligent citizens, even though some of the 'psychics' themselves exposed it as a fraud.
People can be talked into believing anything. Just look at every political election.

I'm aware of the good and bad in all religions.

Having worked in medicine and psychiatry, I'm aware of the complexities of the human body right down to the molecular level and the still poorly understood complexities of being sentient, feeling and the somewhat confusing interplay of emotions.

One part of me feels that when we die, like a program in a computer, when the power shuts off, the 'consciousness' goes out like a light and is no more. Another part rails against that concept because the part of us which is sentient and human is unlike any computer program and may be made up of an energy we can't detect. (The soul?) So when the body dies, this 'you' goes on.

But, where?

The brain acts like a computer for when badly damaged, it will still function, but not correctly unless someone can repair the damaged 'circuits'. Yet sentience is on the molecular or energy level. The human body is just there to support it.

I like to believe that a higher power designed and enabled all of this. Call it Intelligent Design. I also like to believe that when we die, we can be born again as someone else. Reincarnation. I figure that over the billions of years we've existed, even Heaven would tend to get full with the trillions of souls streaming there.

So, you can 'recycle'. Another chance. Another learning experience. Another time. Maybe even into the past. Without all of the hang-ups you've spent a lifetime accumulating. Maybe with a ghostly memory of your previous life/personality. Maybe Heaven exists for those who NEED heaven no matter their belief. Maybe it's a resting place from which you can choose to move on and try again.

The concept is complex, involving many things from parents to spouses, even children and pets and societies.

I don't actually know, but I'd like to think I'm right.

There are many questions yet to answer, like is there actual evil or is it a form of mental illness or brain damage? Is there an actual end to the universe? My brain can't grasp the apparently unending vastness, and scientists who say there is don't have the equipment advanced enough to actually detect any 'edge'. Mostly, it's theory, based on the fact that everything we know of has an 'edge' or limit.

We're just now exploring the concept that any alien beings will NOT think like us but probably in ways we can't yet grasp and we can't be alone in the Universe.

Still, it would be nice, upon death, to waken in some area where all of your cares, fears and worries drop away and the beings you meet ACTUALLY care about you unconditionally, something few of us in life have ever actually experienced.

And then, after a rest, you can choose to go back as a different person and learn more for there is always much to learn.

But what happens when you've learned all there is to learn? That concept, aside from a few feeble suppositions, is beyond me.

I just hope we actually don't go out like a light upon death and that the energy which is us goes on.
 
2012-10-08 01:51:41 PM  

Poppa Boner: nmemkha: I'm sorry I thought rational people enjoy civil discourse and debate

You called all atheists assholes. How very civil and rational of you. I'm sure Christ would be proud.


Please quote where I did this.
 
2012-10-08 01:51:44 PM  
I was okay with pretending that, okay, only part of the brain's dead but that's the important part...sure...I'm no brain surgeon...

BUT when I see this :"According to current medical understanding of the brain and mind" and that's what he's basing this is a "spiritual" experience on, well, you just admitted you don't know if the brain was really dead or not...you don't know. So, to me, as a skeptic, this would tell me that there is more to the brain than we know already and there is more research needed.

I do NOT immediately think "sky fairies" when anything immediately unexplainable happens.
 
2012-10-08 01:51:52 PM  
Did a hot red-head cast a spell to cause him to sit up, and attack a bunch of vampires?
 
2012-10-08 01:52:13 PM  

grokca: It could also be that this experience happened as the "human" part of his brain woke back up, As in dreams they seem to take a long period of time but are really just very short. As blood was re-flowing and the brain was "rebooting" all kinds of strange things could have been happening to it.


Ah, already covered I see. I need to scan the thread a little better and hit refresh more.
 
2012-10-08 01:52:21 PM  
FTFA:
According to current medical understanding of the brain and mind, there is absolutely no way that I could have experienced even a dim and limited consciousness during my time in the coma, much less the hyper-vivid and completely coherent odyssey I underwent.

Well, clearly the only logical conclusion that one could reach is the existence of actual out-of-body experiences, heaven, hell, unicorns...the whole works. A "scientist" such as yourself knows full well that doctors, especially, could never be wrong about something.

What a tool. I love the fact that this dude wrote this so that he can be laughed at until we nuke ourselves to extinction.
 
2012-10-08 01:53:07 PM  

ELF Radio: RAAAARGH SHUT UP ALL YOU WEAK, SNIVELING BABIES WHO THINK LIFE HAS MEANING OR SOME GAY SHIAT LIKE THAT. WE ARE ANIMAL-MACHINES THAT SPRANG INEXPLICABLY FROM NOTHING AND WE EAT AND FARK AND DIE AND THAT IS ALL. NOTHING ELSE EXISTS AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHER WISE IS A LAME DICK WHO CANT DEAL WITH REALITY.

WHY DONT YOU FAIRIES GO BECOME REPUBLICANS AND VOTE FOR MITT ROMENY IF YOU BELIEVE THIS NANCY QUEER AND HIS HALLUCINATROY BULLSHIAT.


Hey, so...that's a pretty reasonable reaction huh?
 
2012-10-08 01:53:39 PM  

xanadian: Mugato: /how come no one has near death experiences of Hell, anyway?

Because *that* is truly an invention of man, meant to keep us under the thumbs of the ruling elite.


23 Minutes in Hell
 
2012-10-08 01:54:39 PM  

nmemkha: Poppa Boner: nmemkha: I'm sorry I thought rational people enjoy civil discourse and debate

You called all atheists assholes. How very civil and rational of you. I'm sure Christ would be proud.

Please quote where I did this.


Don't be coy.

nmemkha: Pathman: nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.

uh - no, those people are called assholes.

There's a difference?

 
2012-10-08 01:54:50 PM  

meta1hed: xanadian: Mugato: /how come no one has near death experiences of Hell, anyway?

Because *that* is truly an invention of man, meant to keep us under the thumbs of the ruling elite.

23 Minutes in Hell


So please...remember to give money to your church, or you're going to hell.
 
2012-10-08 01:55:52 PM  
look at you, poppa boner, lookin shiat up and provin people wrong. I'M SO PROUD OF YOU

;)
 
2012-10-08 01:56:26 PM  

nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.


transitionculture.org
 
2012-10-08 01:56:31 PM  

RanDomino: Deman
As for the OBEs, those are very personal experiences of mine that no one here would gain from them. All I'll share about them is that this seems to be one of those things in which only your personal experiences will answer the questions you have and even then if you do find an answer even more questions will pop up.

Your sense of 'location' is a biological function of an organic gyroscope which can be messed with. I'm sure your local streetcorner pharmacist can help you replicate the experience chemically.


True, but then I get experiences like this that are strangely curious. Three friends are walking through a forest near our hometown. The first two pause for a moment to step over a barbed wire fence while the third just walks right through it. They freak out, thinking the guy is tangled up in a fence, but when they turn around they realize that the fence never existed. It was weird because it was completely fluid. The two that climbed over the hallucinatory fence both started at the same time, and nobody even made mention of it beforehand.

What does this prove? Absolutely nothing except that drugs can make you hallucinate and two people just happened to have the same hallucination at the same time. It's still enough to make me question how something like that could really happen but I'll never have proof of those fantastical imaginings.
 
2012-10-08 01:56:51 PM  
t1.gstatic.com

Rik01: ...I just hope we actually don't go out like a light upon death and that the energy which is us goes on.

 

Don't worry, there are plenty of mechanisms that ensure conservation of energy.
 
2012-10-08 01:57:44 PM  

Kibbler: As after-death experience reports go, I give it a C-. I mean really--blue eyes and golden brown tresses? If he'd told me it was a short, fat, balding man of vaguely Mediterranean experience with a raspy voice and a goiter, it might have been a C. You give me axe-swinging Vikings and endless hallowed fields of ice and crystal, we're maybe talking B-. You tell me you had to stand in line at something like a DMV, and they told you that you had the wrong form--now I'm a believer.

But a lovely young woman with blue eyes and golden brown tresses? That booming sound you heard was the sound of a dozen laptops banging out the script for the inevitable TV series based on the bestseller book THIS FALL ON FOX. "America's Got Angels." "So You Think You Can Vegetate." "Angels Gone Wild."


This.

I was waiting for him to go on about this lovely young woman and in particular how sharp her knees may or may not have been so profoundly experienced.

There was much talk of orbs and such, but no mention of any relevant to my interests.

If there are no tits in heaven I wouldn't want to get myself the fark in at any rate.
 
2012-10-08 01:58:05 PM  

xanadian: look at you, poppa boner, lookin shiat up and provin people wrong. I'M SO PROUD OF YOU

;)


I came out of retirement specifically for this arsewad of an article.

Cheers!
 
2012-10-08 01:58:18 PM  

Poppa Boner: nmemkha: Poppa Boner: nmemkha: I'm sorry I thought rational people enjoy civil discourse and debate

You called all atheists assholes. How very civil and rational of you. I'm sure Christ would be proud.

Please quote where I did this.

Don't be coy.

nmemkha: Pathman: nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.

uh - no, those people are called assholes.

There's a difference?


It was a question. All of the Atheists I have met act the way I describe (including you btw) and he countered those are "assholes". I have yet personally meet an Atheist who doesn't act in this manner so described so I asked if their was a difference. My question was snarky but also legitimate.

I guess you answered question.
 
2012-10-08 01:59:20 PM  

HortusMatris: nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.

[transitionculture.org image 333x500]


Opinions can't be strawmen since they are subjective my nature. I did not couch my statement as fact, merely observation.
 
2012-10-08 01:59:58 PM  

nmemkha: It was a question. All of the Atheists I have met act the way I describe (including you btw) and he countered those are "assholes". I have yet personally meet an Atheist who doesn't act in this manner so described so I asked if their was a difference. My question was snarky but also legitimate.

I guess you answered question.


Cool back pedaling, bro.

BTW I'm not an atheist... it is possible I'm an asshole though.
 
2012-10-08 02:01:18 PM  

Poppa Boner: it is possible I'm an asshole though.


Well anyone who thinks "shouting down" others because they don't agree with their opinions is an asshole in my book.

/YMMV
 
2012-10-08 02:01:55 PM  

nmemkha: My question was snarky


snark·y (snärk)
adj. snark·i·er, snark·i·est Slang
1. Rudely sarcastic or disrespectful; snide.

So, mocking and condescending, then?
 
2012-10-08 02:02:53 PM  

nmemkha:

It was a question. All of the Atheists I have met act the way I describe (including you btw) and he countered those are "assholes". I have yet personally meet an Atheist who doesn't act in this manner so described so I asked if their was a difference. My question was snarky but also legitimate.

I guess you answered question.


LOL ... caught in a lie and still squirming eh?

Isn't that just like a religious person?

/It is just "a question" so don't you dare suggest that I am calling all religious people liars!!!
 
2012-10-08 02:03:00 PM  

Epicedion: nmemkha: My question was snarky

snark·y (snärk)
adj. snark·i·er, snark·i·est Slang
1. Rudely sarcastic or disrespectful; snide.

So, mocking and condescending, then?


Yes, I am sorry. Do you forgive me?
 
2012-10-08 02:04:35 PM  

Farking Canuck: nmemkha:

It was a question. All of the Atheists I have met act the way I describe (including you btw) and he countered those are "assholes". I have yet personally meet an Atheist who doesn't act in this manner so described so I asked if their was a difference. My question was snarky but also legitimate.

I guess you answered question.

LOL ... caught in a lie and still squirming eh?

Isn't that just like a religious person?

/It is just "a question" so don't you dare suggest that I am calling all religious people liars!!!


Lie? Not in this case and I try not to, but I lie all the time. We all do. Its part of the human condition. I do try not to.

I am not a "holier than thou" Christian. I'm a miserable sack like the rest of you.
 
2012-10-08 02:05:22 PM  

logistic: Although I considered myself a faithful Christian

Loses any trace of credibility at this precise point. Not arguing one way or another, but his opinion is nixed by this statement.


bingo! and shame on both the doctor and the magazine for writing and printing this biased shiat. this is a well educated man who is turning his back on the truth. someone should biatch slap this christian right upside his stitch filled head.
 
2012-10-08 02:05:23 PM  

nmemkha: Poppa Boner: it is possible I'm an asshole though.

Well anyone who thinks "shouting down" others because they don't agree with their opinions is an asshole in my book.

/YMMV


After almost 2000 years of putting up with Christian bullsh*t and persecution people have a right to call you out on it. Believe whatever you want but keep it to yourself. Many religious people manage to do this quite easily. By your statements here it is apparent you are not one of those people... or you're a troll.

Either way you've just been smacked down by a guy who goes by Poppa Boner.

How does that make you feel?
 
2012-10-08 02:05:37 PM  

Farking Canuck: This is the problem with people like you ... you really have no concept of how science works.


You really failed hard in hooked on phonics, didn't you? I said it wasn't scientific, but I also said that the reason for dismissal many people present here isn't scientific, only that they dismiss established science so they can find some gap where their preconceived notions can be coddled.

The rest of your argument is argumentum ad ignorantiam.
 
2012-10-08 02:05:38 PM  
I was always kind of scared at the thought of eternal afterlife. No matter what just take a moment to think of eternity. The idea of no end to whatever it is you're doing, no matter how amazing it is, is realistically out of our realm of comprehension .
 
2012-10-08 02:05:49 PM  

nmemkha: Farking Canuck: nmemkha:

It was a question. All of the Atheists I have met act the way I describe (including you btw) and he countered those are "assholes". I have yet personally meet an Atheist who doesn't act in this manner so described so I asked if their was a difference. My question was snarky but also legitimate.

I guess you answered question.

LOL ... caught in a lie and still squirming eh?

Isn't that just like a religious person?

/It is just "a question" so don't you dare suggest that I am calling all religious people liars!!!

Lie? Not in this case and I try not to, but I lie all the time. We all do. Its part of the human condition. I do try not to.

I am not a "holier than thou" Christian. I'm a miserable sack like the rest of you.


Who likes to call all atheists assholes and then deny it by saying "it was just a question".
 
2012-10-08 02:06:01 PM  

nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.


I find religious nutbags interesting for the exact same reasons.
 
2012-10-08 02:06:58 PM  

nmemkha: HortusMatris: nmemkha: I find Atheists interesting. They dismiss anything that does not fit their narrow worldview out-of-hand and are generally mocking and condescending to the views of others.

[transitionculture.org image 333x500]

Opinions can't be strawmen since they are subjective my nature. I did not couch my statement as fact, merely observation.


Oh, so you're just trolling then. My bad.
 
2012-10-08 02:07:30 PM  

Farking Canuck: nmemkha: Farking Canuck: nmemkha:

It was a question. All of the Atheists I have met act the way I describe (including you btw) and he countered those are "assholes". I have yet personally meet an Atheist who doesn't act in this manner so described so I asked if their was a difference. My question was snarky but also legitimate.

I guess you answered question.

LOL ... caught in a lie and still squirming eh?

Isn't that just like a religious person?

/It is just "a question" so don't you dare suggest that I am calling all religious people liars!!!

Lie? Not in this case and I try not to, but I lie all the time. We all do. Its part of the human condition. I do try not to.

I am not a "holier than thou" Christian. I'm a miserable sack like the rest of you.

Who likes to call all atheists assholes and then deny it by saying "it was just a question".


Like I said, I have never met one who does not act in the manner described.
 
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