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(CNN)   Chinese Banks: Correlation does not imply causation. So what if we are a Chinese bank owned by the Chinese government who has an agenda to become #1 world power? That does not automatically mean we are guilty   (money.cnn.com) divider line 40
    More: Fail, Chinese, Huawei, chinese banks, house intelligence committee, ZTE, telephone companies  
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1610 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Oct 2012 at 9:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-08 08:28:50 AM
"The risks associated with Huawei's and ZTE's provision of equipment to U.S. critical infrastructure could undermine core U.S. national-security interests," the report states. The findings are particularly critical of Huawei, which the committee alleges "provided evasive, nonresponsive, or incomplete answers to questions at the heart of the security issues posed."

And you know what? i'll bet Congress will just end up saying 'f*ck it' and let the chinese telcoms move into this country. the worst part? they probably have a more stable network infrastructure than comcast...
 
2012-10-08 08:55:26 AM
Chinese banks?
 
2012-10-08 08:59:51 AM

Babwa Wawa: Chinese banks?


Banks of routers, I'm guessing
 
2012-10-08 09:21:43 AM

Weaver95: "The risks associated with Huawei's and ZTE's provision of equipment to U.S. critical infrastructure could undermine core U.S. national-security interests," the report states. The findings are particularly critical of Huawei, which the committee alleges "provided evasive, nonresponsive, or incomplete answers to questions at the heart of the security issues posed."

And you know what? i'll bet Congress will just end up saying 'f*ck it' and let the chinese telcoms move into this country after some campaign contributions. the worst part? they probably have a more stable network infrastructure than comcast...


FTFY
 
2012-10-08 09:22:31 AM
This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.
 
2012-10-08 09:31:26 AM
I've got another saying for you... "Where there is smoke, there is fire".
 
2012-10-08 09:37:18 AM

Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


I both agree and disagree with your post.

1) Yah, that article is definitely waving the "BEWARE THE CHINESE" flag so hard it almost achieves flight. Is the threat overblown? Well, like everything else with China, yes, yes it is. (This is regarding their military capabilities)
2) Does the threat exist? Yes, yes it does. Just because there is a HUGE contrast between metropolitan China and the rest of the country does not mean they aren't capable of installing back doors in some routers. You don't need to get them all. The contrast with the building codes actually goes to tenacity: China wants those buildings built and, thus, they will be built regardless of safety/design problems. If China wants to create this window into the United States IT infrastructure they will try hard to do so.

/Besides, if you are aware of the possibility, just check the system.
 
2012-10-08 09:39:29 AM
and where, exactly are you going to get routers without china made parts or assembled in chinese slave labor factories?

live by the cheap labor, die by it.
 
2012-10-08 09:42:00 AM

Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


It's not a boogeyman. Most US gov't agencies won't buy kit from Israeli companies for the same reason.
 
2012-10-08 09:45:13 AM

Babwa Wawa: Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.

It's not a boogeyman. Most US gov't agencies won't buy kit from Israeli companies for the same reason.


The French have very active intelligence services as well.
 
2012-10-08 09:47:21 AM
anyone who trusts Communist China is a fookin' fool.

i wouldn't trust Communist China any more than i'd trust a wall street pathological lying investment banker.


under a Capitalist system, man exploits man,
under a communist one, its just the opposite.

--American Economist John Kenneth Galbraith.
 
2012-10-08 09:48:33 AM
Walmart: we exploite cheap communinst chinese labor so you don't have to!!
 
2012-10-08 09:49:35 AM

Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.



wow, you haven't been reading any current events. China's economy has the potential to blow ours out of the water.
 
2012-10-08 09:50:46 AM
PS-- if you install the open source Linux OS on your router, problem solved. i prefer Tomatoe Linux on my Linksys.
 
2012-10-08 09:51:37 AM

Babwa Wawa: Chinese banks?


I was also wondering about this. Maybe subby thought "telecoms" meant "telecommuting communists"?
 
2012-10-08 09:57:25 AM

Linux_Yes: Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


wow, you haven't been reading any current events. China's economy has the potential to blow ours out of the water.


You have to have living citizens to do that, when 30% of your drinking water is considered potable, and there are days where the smog is so bad it isn't safe to go outside, you're going to wind up with a HUGE amount of cancer cases in 20-30 years.

I'm not predicting an imminent collapse of China, but to think their current actions are going to be able to continue indefinitely with a majority of the population dying from their lack of foresight into personal health is laughable.
 
2012-10-08 10:16:20 AM
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-10-08 10:18:20 AM
Look just because I have all the motive in the world, and you caught me holding the smoking gun, does not necessarily mean that I did it.

Why was this even a question that needed to be researched?
 
2012-10-08 10:19:37 AM

Linux_Yes: Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


wow, you haven't been reading any current events. China's economy has the potential to blow ours out of the water.


Their growth rate is unsustainable in fiscal terms, ecological germs, etc. They have a massive demographic bomb created by the one child policy, a HUGE disparity between the cities and countryside, and as someone else said the makings of a large chronic healthcare problem 20-30 years down the line due to decades of gross ecological malfeasance.

Not to mention that they have a HUGE real estate bubble propped up by state banks which hasn't popped yet.

/China has her share of problems.
 
2012-10-08 10:24:41 AM

Girion47: Linux_Yes: Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


wow, you haven't been reading any current events. China's economy has the potential to blow ours out of the water.

You have to have living citizens to do that, when 30% of your drinking water is considered potable, and there are days where the smog is so bad it isn't safe to go outside, you're going to wind up with a HUGE amount of cancer cases in 20-30 years.

I'm not predicting an imminent collapse of China, but to think their current actions are going to be able to continue indefinitely with a majority of the population dying from their lack of foresight into personal health is laughable.



china can afford to lose alot of their citizens. well over 1 billion people. they have vast land and resources too. they're growing their military 15%/yr. read about the latest story on their giant telecom company?

and they have a vast array of spies in the U.S.

Communist China will be the next Super Power in the world. and we will be the other one unless we let wall street/corporate boardrooms run us into the ground again and destroy our economy. then again, they always have the U.S. Government to bail them out.

isn't Socialism great!
 
2012-10-08 10:26:12 AM

Wicked Chinchilla: Linux_Yes: Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


wow, you haven't been reading any current events. China's economy has the potential to blow ours out of the water.

Their growth rate is unsustainable in fiscal terms, ecological germs, etc. They have a massive demographic bomb created by the one child policy, a HUGE disparity between the cities and countryside, and as someone else said the makings of a large chronic healthcare problem 20-30 years down the line due to decades of gross ecological malfeasance.

Not to mention that they have a HUGE real estate bubble propped up by state banks which hasn't popped yet.

/China has her share of problems.



and WE compete with them well in the Problems department.
 
2012-10-08 10:26:53 AM

Weaver95: "The risks associated with Huawei's and ZTE's provision of equipment to U.S. critical infrastructure could undermine core U.S. national-security interests," the report states. The findings are particularly critical of Huawei, which the committee alleges "provided evasive, nonresponsive, or incomplete answers to questions at the heart of the security issues posed."

And you know what? i'll bet Congress will just end up saying 'f*ck it' and let the chinese telcoms move into this country. the worst part? they probably have a more stable network infrastructure than comcast...



AND

they have faster internet than us too.
 
2012-10-08 10:28:38 AM

Wicked Chinchilla: Their growth rate is unsustainable in fiscal terms, ecological germs, etc. They have a massive demographic bomb created by the one child policy, a HUGE disparity between the cities and countryside, and as someone else said the makings of a large chronic healthcare problem 20-30 years down the line due to decades of gross ecological malfeasance.


You failed to mention that despite the facade, at a macro level it is a centrally controlled economy.

Between 1914-1970, economic growth in the USSR was truly stunning. It proved the premise that you can't fall out of a hole. I view China's current economic growth in much the same way.

Assuming that corruption can be brought under control, India will dominate the latter 21st century - not China.
 
2012-10-08 10:29:35 AM
if Communist China is so broke, then why are they propping up so much of our Debt and why are they buying so much U.S. real estate, companies, etc.


what say you????
 
2012-10-08 10:37:08 AM

Linux_Yes: Weaver95: "The risks associated with Huawei's and ZTE's provision of equipment to U.S. critical infrastructure could undermine core U.S. national-security interests," the report states. The findings are particularly critical of Huawei, which the committee alleges "provided evasive, nonresponsive, or incomplete answers to questions at the heart of the security issues posed."

And you know what? i'll bet Congress will just end up saying 'f*ck it' and let the chinese telcoms move into this country. the worst part? they probably have a more stable network infrastructure than comcast...


AND

they have faster internet than us too.


Faster internet that doesn't get Facebook.

Come to think of it, that might be an advantage.
 
2012-10-08 10:49:40 AM

Wicked Chinchilla: They have a massive demographic bomb created by the one child policy


I know this keeps getting attention, but for all the wrong reasons. China can barely feed its people, even with some of the most ridiculously fertile soil on the planet. They NEEDED to put a brake on their breed-like-rabbits culture. Doing so results an aging population but that's the case for any industrialized nation and a very predictable result. Many parents murdered their firstborn daughters to have a son, which is a serious humanitarian problem in its own right without dragging it into a discussion about economics. I think some people are conflating the issues just to bring attention to them without any evidence there's a connection.

China's demographics are in far more serious trouble due to, among other problems, "brain drain". Here's a chilling example: China has zero resident Nobel Laureates*. None. There are a number of winners of Chinese descent, but every single one left the country. In that sense, as strong as the anti-intellectual movement is in America, our farked-up country is still a million times more hospitable for intellectual elites than China.

China does not invent anything. China does not innovate anything. Everything they make are products designed in first-world countries, with machines manufactured in first-world countries, using assembly processes refined in first-world countries. The ONLY thing they can offer to first-world countries is massive amounts of cheap labor, and they are quickly reaching breaking point in controlling that "advantage". The riots and crackdowns and suicide nets are signs of a country desperately trying to keep an unsustainable status quo. It has to; it has an unholy alliance with American manufacturers. If they can't keep their costs down, the corporations will leave. They don't need to look at the Rust Belt to know what would happen if they did. Once you make yourself industry's biatch, you will always be industry's biatch. . . even when industry's done with you.

They will collapse, but I don't think that's any grounds for Americans to rest easy. The problem with America isn't China. It's that America's popular prescription for economic recovery is to try to out-China China.

*Well, I don't know about the Peace Prize but I'm only counting serious awards here.
 
2012-10-08 10:51:20 AM

Linux_Yes: if Communist China is so broke, then why are they propping up so much of our Debt and why are they buying so much U.S. real estate, companies, etc.


what say you????


because tbills are a good investment? and it's not "so much" it's 8%. Japan has almost as much.
 
2012-10-08 11:03:40 AM
 
2012-10-08 11:05:26 AM

Babwa Wawa: India will dominate the latter 21st century - not China.


I think the problem with most predictions is that they're made in context of outdated conventional wisdom. The latter half of the 20th century saw a renewed emergence of global superpowers, so ever since the Cold War ended and America entered decline, people have been trying to look for the next superpower.

I'm seeing a rise of corporate power, with a corresponding weakening of central governments. They're increasingly distributed and unaccountable to no one. We aren't waiting for the next superpower; the very concept is becoming obsolete. The biggest powers are multinational corporations that pick and choose their host countries and move operations at will. The worst a country can do anymore is throw a company out, but then they just move on. If General Electric ever moves its headquarters to India, it will be universally viewed as a failure of American economic policy. But the actual reason will be much simpler and more shortsighted -- they'll move to whatever country has the lowest operating costs. When a company successfully pits two countries against each other in a silly bid for its jobs, the only winner is the company. Does anyone here seriously think the Chinese factory workers, which took all our manufacturing jobs, actually have it made?? Their standard of living is awful, which is precisely why they got the jobs in the first place. Jobs will go to the country that offers to bring its people to the lowest standard of living while maintaining government control. If you want your factory job back, your option is to offer to lower your standard of living to below that of a suicidal Foxconn worker.
 
2012-10-08 11:18:13 AM

dragonchild: Babwa Wawa: India will dominate the latter 21st century - not China.

I think the problem with most predictions is that they're made in context of outdated conventional wisdom. The latter half of the 20th century saw a renewed emergence of global superpowers, so ever since the Cold War ended and America entered decline, people have been trying to look for the next superpower.

I'm seeing a rise of corporate power, with a corresponding weakening of central governments. They're increasingly distributed and unaccountable to no one. We aren't waiting for the next superpower; the very concept is becoming obsolete. The biggest powers are multinational corporations that pick and choose their host countries and move operations at will. The worst a country can do anymore is throw a company out, but then they just move on. If General Electric ever moves its headquarters to India, it will be universally viewed as a failure of American economic policy. But the actual reason will be much simpler and more shortsighted -- they'll move to whatever country has the lowest operating costs. When a company successfully pits two countries against each other in a silly bid for its jobs, the only winner is the company. Does anyone here seriously think the Chinese factory workers, which took all our manufacturing jobs, actually have it made?? Their standard of living is awful, which is precisely why they got the jobs in the first place. Jobs will go to the country that offers to bring its people to the lowest standard of living while maintaining government control. If you want your factory job back, your option is to offer to lower your standard of living to below that of a suicidal Foxconn worker.


Interesting observation, but we're not looking at some sort of post-governmental society. Corporations need stable populations, safe, war-free regions, and some level of education in the local populace (which varies according to the type of work being done). All these things can only be achieved through government policy.
 
2012-10-08 11:34:45 AM

Girion47: Linux_Yes: Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


wow, you haven't been reading any current events. China's economy has the potential to blow ours out of the water.

You have to have living citizens to do that, when 30% of your drinking water is considered potable, and there are days where the smog is so bad it isn't safe to go outside, you're going to wind up with a HUGE amount of cancer cases in 20-30 years.

I'm not predicting an imminent collapse of China, but to think their current actions are going to be able to continue indefinitely with a majority of the population dying from their lack of foresight into personal health is laughable.


Every nation has to deal with this problem when industrializing. It didn't slow Europe down much and it won't slow the Chinese down, either.
 
2012-10-08 11:41:48 AM

Girion47: Linux_Yes: Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


wow, you haven't been reading any current events. China's economy has the potential to blow ours out of the water.

You have to have living citizens to do that, when 30% of your drinking water is considered potable, and there are days where the smog is so bad it isn't safe to go outside, you're going to wind up with a HUGE amount of cancer cases in 20-30 years.

I'm not predicting an imminent collapse of China, but to think their current actions are going to be able to continue indefinitely with a majority of the population dying from their lack of foresight into personal health is laughable.


I was watching a documentary about Chinas environment this weekend. I knew they were bad but damn I never knew it was that bad. About only 60% of the garbage Bejing produces daily can go in the landfills around the city. The rest they just dump where ever they want. It was pretty damn nasty. I can see some kind of environmental plauge just running wild through China
 
2012-10-08 11:47:15 AM

Babwa Wawa: we're not looking at some sort of post-governmental society. Corporations need stable populations, safe, war-free regions, and some level of education in the local populace


To clarify, I never said central governments are becoming obsolete. Superpowers are becoming obsolete. The role of central governments will be a strong as ever, but with a limited scope by design, because they will basically be de facto arms of the companies they're beholden to. Even now, who you work for is more immediately influential in your life than the government. On a larger scale, corporations dictate where wars are and are not fought, and essentially dictate trade relations to the countries involved.

Hell, consider we're in the midst of a stagnant job market. Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! is the cry from the public, but we can't get a damn jobs bill even started in Congress because corporate lobbying has proved so influential in dictating economic policy. The last time we had a job market this bad, the people swept aside the corporatists and the FDR Administration launched the CCC.

TL;DR: It's not that governments will become weak. From the perspective of the citizen, governments will be as strong as ever. But the government themselves are subservient to corporate superpowers, as globalization gives them more leverage than any single government can restrain. China's government is still strong enough to bully its citizens, but it does so because companies want them to.
 
2012-10-08 12:21:50 PM
"China does not invent anything. China does not innovate anything."

Learn to use google for God's sake.

//would rather have freedom from idiots than freedom of speech.
 
2012-10-08 12:28:46 PM

KobaSauce: "China does not invent anything. China does not innovate anything."

Learn to use google for God's sake.

//would rather have freedom from idiots than freedom of speech.


I think you misspelled Baidu...

/China innovates from a foundation built by western companies, then squeezes them out of the local market
//Saw it firsthand
 
2012-10-08 03:10:33 PM
All I have to add to this:
I have a huwei phone. it is hands down the worst piece of garbage ever.
 
2012-10-08 08:39:31 PM

Jerry_Hat-trick: All I have to add to this:
I have a huwei phone. it is hands down the worst piece of garbage ever.


Sounds like you got a knockoff.
 
2012-10-08 09:02:05 PM

Linux_Yes: Girion47: Linux_Yes: Girion47: This article is trying very hard to play up the Chinese boogeyman. That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


wow, you haven't been reading any current events. China's economy has the potential to blow ours out of the water.

You have to have living citizens to do that, when 30% of your drinking water is considered potable, and there are days where the smog is so bad it isn't safe to go outside, you're going to wind up with a HUGE amount of cancer cases in 20-30 years.

I'm not predicting an imminent collapse of China, but to think their current actions are going to be able to continue indefinitely with a majority of the population dying from their lack of foresight into personal health is laughable.


china can afford to lose alot of their citizens. well over 1 billion people. they have vast land and resources too. they're growing their military 15%/yr. read about the latest story on their giant telecom company?

and they have a vast array of spies in the U.S.

Communist China will be the next Super Power in the world. and we will be the other one unless we let wall street/corporate boardrooms run us into the ground again and destroy our economy. then again, they always have the U.S. Government to bail them out.

isn't Socialism great!




I'm curious how the Chinese plan on dealing with dwindling resources, huge political and human rights issues, terrible ecological conditions and a massive and unbalanced population. To top it off their infrastructure is horrendous, they have almost zero safety regulations and they're growing a housing bubble that will make America's look like a hiccup. One good natural disaster and you're talking about hundreds of millions of potential refugees. And lets not even get started on their neighboring countries ....

Power? Yes
Super power? Maybe. But not for a long, long time.
 
2012-10-09 12:31:08 AM
it all comes down to cheap labor. they can commit all kinds of financial paurolr tricks and get away from it because they have a billion people ready to work for whatever they want to have done.
50% of their economic policy is aimed at keeping their inflation in check and it works because they have a billion people ready to work.

they can do this for another 20 years folks
 
2012-10-09 03:07:00 AM

Girion47: That country is going to collapse magnificently in the next 20 years, they aren't going to be backdooring every router they install, they can't even get potable water to all of their citizens or even institute building codes that don't result in whole buildings just completely tipping over.


They are backdooring everything they can get their hands on. Now, that HP will probably be sending all of their networking SW/HW to China, you can expect every piece of HP network equipment to be a direct conduit to the Chinese CIA (whatever that's called).

I'm not paranoid or even disturbed by this, it is just part of their culture to do that sort of thing. Not that it is bad. The US would do the same exact thing if we were in their shoes.
 
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