liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: I sense your deep outrage at this heinous war crime.

I sense your indifference to much more egregious actions by Palestinians.



Philip Francis Queeg: I bet that you were incensed at the Israel prior to 2005 when using Palestinian human shields was perfectly legal policy rather than the wink and a nudge practice it is now

You are fine making shiat up about how I feel now, why not make up shiat from 7 years ago?

I apologize for stating that you were incensed at policy of using Palestinian civilians including children by the IDF.

In the future I will be clear that you are only incensed by such actions when they are done by groups other than the IDF.

RoyBatty: Philip Francis Queeg: I have yet to find an Israeli act which you have felt is worthy of the slightest criticism.

Oddly, I am hopeful you can point me to numerous Israeli acts that here at FARK you have agreed with and complimented.

I support their policy of universal health care.

Philip Francis Queeg: RoyBatty: Philip Francis Queeg: I have yet to find an Israeli act which you have felt is worthy of the slightest criticism.

Oddly, I am hopeful you can point me to numerous Israeli acts that here at FARK you have agreed with and complimented.

I support their policy of universal health care.

Right so by this basic admission of yours that you disagree with Israel at every turn, you are hardly in position to complain that liam76 never criticizes Israel at all so somehow you are more nuanced and less a partisan hack.

(And after all, liam76 here has criticized the government of Israel.)

RoyBatty: Philip Francis Queeg: RoyBatty: Philip Francis Queeg: I have yet to find an Israeli act which you have felt is worthy of the slightest criticism.

Oddly, I am hopeful you can point me to numerous Israeli acts that here at FARK you have agreed with and complimented.

I support their policy of universal health care.

Right so by this basic admission of yours that you disagree with Israel at every turn, you are hardly in position to complain that liam76 never criticizes Israel at all so somehow you are more nuanced and less a partisan hack.

(And after all, liam76 here has criticized the government of Israel.)

Oh that's not the only item I support. I certainly support the camp David accords. I support their withdrawal from southern Lebanon. I support many of their progressive domestic institutions.

What Israeli policies Do you support and condemn?

Philip Francis Queeg: I certainly support the camp David accords

Do you support a two state solution?

Philip Francis Queeg: What Israeli policies Do you support and condemn?

I am not usually one of the big participants here, so my views are pretty valueless. I tend to say nothing except express BS at the clearest amounts of BS, and other than that I read and learn a lot about history that I can't figure out how I never learned before.

I live in the southwest US and have never been to Israel. My research into the issues is such that I find the Israelis much more trustworthy and working for peace than any of the other constituents.

So I usually keep my mouth shut since I don't have clear enemies that want to kill me and my kids living 10 - 20 miles away and give a great leeway to the Israelis and what they say since they do.

But I've always thought continued expansion of the settlements was stupid.

Like most good liberals I was against the wall when it was being built, but since it seems to have worked, well, shiat, maybe I was wrong.

I dislike the human rights abuses when they are discovered and hate the slap on the wrists they are sometimes given.

But I truly dislike the bullshiat that I often hear here that Israel is to blame for all of this.

The basic truth I know and support is that if Israel put down her arms Tuesday, by Wednesday there would be no Israel. And if Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran and everyone else put down their arms tonight, peace would break out by tomorrow morning.

RoyBatty: Philip Francis Queeg: I certainly support the camp David accords

Do you support a two state solution?

Philip Francis Queeg: What Israeli policies Do you support and condemn?

I am not usually one of the big participants here, so my views are pretty valueless. I tend to say nothing except express BS at the clearest amounts of BS, and other than that I read and learn a lot about history that I can't figure out how I never learned before.

I live in the southwest US and have never been to Israel. My research into the issues is such that I find the Israelis much more trustworthy and working for peace than any of the other constituents.

So I usually keep my mouth shut since I don't have clear enemies that want to kill me and my kids living 10 - 20 miles away and give a great leeway to the Israelis and what they say since they do.

But I've always thought continued expansion of the settlements was stupid.

Like most good liberals I was against the wall when it was being built, but since it seems to have worked, well, shiat, maybe I was wrong.

I dislike the human rights abuses when they are discovered and hate the slap on the wrists they are sometimes given.

But I truly dislike the bullshiat that I often hear here that Israel is to blame for all of this.

The basic truth I know and support is that if Israel put down her arms Tuesday, by Wednesday there would be no Israel. And if Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran and everyone else put down their arms tonight, peace would break out by tomorrow morning.

I think a two state solution is the only viable option at this point.

However the roots of this conflict lie in the decision to try an split the land into two non-viable, non-contiguous states in 1947. This same mistake was made in India and Pakistan at the same time, with results nearly as tragic.

That however is all water under the bridge. There is no going back. We must simply wait for the day when both sides are willing to make hard sacrifices to have peace.

Philip Francis Queeg: I think a two state solution is the only viable option at this point.

However the roots of this conflict lie in the decision to try an split the land into two non-viable, non-contiguous states in 1947. This same mistake was made in India and Pakistan at the same time, with results nearly as tragic.

That however is all water under the bridge. There is no going back. We must simply wait for the day when both sides are willing to make hard sacrifices to have peace.

I can certainly agree with this, thank you.

When I was in Jr. High and High School I wondered how there could be 30 Year Wars or 100 Year Wars or even why people still disliked Germany because WWII ended 30 years earlier during the black and white days.

And now, well, fark me, it's amazing to me how we are still fighting the leftovers of WWII and earlier.

Hey, guys. God doesn't give a shiat about that patch of sand, scorpions, and camels. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you'll stop killing each other.

/the only thing more vast than the universe is the hubris and arrogance of man

Keizer_Ghidorah: Hey, guys. God doesn't give a shiat about that patch of sand, scorpions, and camels. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you'll stop killing each other.

/the only thing more vast than the universe is the hubris and arrogance of man

Now now, their god is very real, his name is money and power, you'd better show some respect.

Amos Quito: Philip Francis Queeg: Wooly Bully: clambam: Noo, because you do hate Jews.

This is a nasty and unfounded attack.

I've seen this guy PFQ call out real anti-Semites, many times. He's one of the good guys and they deserve to be praised, not libeled.

Thank you kind Sir or Madam.


LOL!

He's probably talking about when you tell lies about me for brownie points, PFQ.

How's them apples?

Philip Francis Queeg: A trial at which they get slapped firmly on the wrist and are returned to duty.

So you don't understand the difference. Big surprise there i can tell you.
How many such incidents took place since then ? and for the palestinians it's a warfare tactic, used specifically for a reason.

Philip Francis Queeg: I apologize for stating that you were incensed at policy of using Palestinian civilians including children by the IDF.

So now you are pretending you don't understand sarcasm?


Philip Francis Queeg: In the future I will be clear that you are only incensed by such actions when they are done by groups other than the IDF

No. I am incensed by such actions when anyone does it, however I recognize it is worse when people do it to their own people, when the people make it standard procedure, and when there is no punishment. Distinctions you refuse to recognize because you like things to be black and white whenever you try and demonize Israel.

liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: I apologize for stating that you were incensed at policy of using Palestinian civilians including children by the IDF.

So now you are pretending you don't understand sarcasm?


Philip Francis Queeg: In the future I will be clear that you are only incensed by such actions when they are done by groups other than the IDF

No. I am incensed by such actions when anyone does it, however I recognize it is worse when people do it to their own people, when the people make it standard procedure, and when there is no punishment. Distinctions you refuse to recognize because you like things to be black and white whenever you try and demonize Israel.Vi/>

So in your amazing sliding scale of morality t's more evil to use a child as a human shiled when they are of your own demographic or geopolitical group? That's just amazing. Is an American murdering a Mexican child less evil, then if they murder an American child?

Congratulations. You have succinctly expressed the type of ultra-nationalism that leads to atrocities.

Philip Francis Queeg: liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: I apologize for stating that you were incensed at policy of using Palestinian civilians including children by the IDF.

So now you are pretending you don't understand sarcasm?


Philip Francis Queeg: In the future I will be clear that you are only incensed by such actions when they are done by groups other than the IDF

No. I am incensed by such actions when anyone does it, however I recognize it is worse when people do it to their own people, when the people make it standard procedure, and when there is no punishment. Distinctions you refuse to recognize because you like things to be black and white whenever you try and demonize Israel.Vi/>


Nice to see you gloss over those points, again.



So in your amazing sliding scale of morality t's more evil to use a child as a human shiled when they are of your own demographic or geopolitical group?

How the fark is that a "sliding scale" I am not putting a different moral "penalty" based on who is doing it.


That's just amazing. Is an American murdering a Mexican child less evil, then if they murder an American child?

We aren't talking about "murder" in a vaccuum. We are talking about war and the tactics a group will tolerate or endorse. An individual murder doesn't become more or less "evil" based on nationality, and I never said that (once again you never fail to let truth get in the way of your made up arguments). It a society or group decides they are A-ok using their kids as human shields I find that far more repulsive than a group saying they will use their enemies children as human shields. I am sure you are going to chirp back with soem BS about the two actions being the same, and once again display your ignorance of what goes on in war and your inability to see anything other than black and white when it comes to demonizing Israel.


Congratulations. You have succinctly expressed the type of ultra-nationalism that leads to atrocities.

Using your enemies children as human shields is terrible, using your own children is worse, yeah that totally leads to atrocities. I would say what leads to atrocities is people who care less for their kids then their enemies do (looking at you palestine).

liam76: No. I am incensed by such actions when anyone does it, however I recognize it is worse when people do it to their own people, when the people make it standard procedure, and when there is no punishment. Distinctions you refuse to recognize because you like things to be black and white whenever you try and demonize Israel.Vi/>


Nice to see you gloss over those points, again.

Yes, I did gloss over your dishonesty. Prior to 2005 the use of Palestinians civilians as human shields was standard procedure for the IDF and bore no punishment. The IDF fought making the use of human shields illegal. You didn't acknowledge that and I gave you a pass. If it makes it feel better I will say that you are living up to your reputation for obvious intellectual dishonesty.

liam76: Using your enemies children as human shields is terrible, using your own children is worse, yeah that totally leads to atrocities. I would say what leads to atrocities is people who care less for their kids then their enemies do (looking at you palestine).

Yes, yes it does lead to atrocities. Valuing the life off an innocent child differently based on whether they are part of your nationality is simply monstrous. But that's hardly surprising from a well known ultra-nationalist like you. What's even more tragic is that you cannot even comprehend that there is the slightest thing wrong with your barbaric values.

Philip Francis Queeg: Yes, I did gloss over your dishonesty. Prior to 2005 the use of Palestinians civilians as human shields was standard procedure

Standard procedure? So military institutions in Israel normally had palestenian kids hanging around as a deterent?

What am I supposed to acknowledge? I said I disagreed with allowing it, and with the relatively light punishment.

The only one being dishonest here is you (you ignore what I write, and you ignore any steps Israel has taken to stop the practice and pretend they are the same).

Philip Francis Queeg: Yes, yes it does lead to atrocities. Valuing the life off an innocent child differently based on whether they are part of your nationality is simply monstrous.

You either go to war to defend your people or kill the other people. If you are willing to risk your kids in that war then you aren't going to war to defend your people. That hurts any legit justification you can have for war.

If every country valued children equally why don't first world nation have welfare and food programs for third worls countries at the same level as they do for their own children? Are you for the US spending just as much on the feeding and education of children in Syria as we do in the US? If not you are as "monstrous" as I am.


Philip Francis Queeg: What's even more tragic is that you cannot even comprehend that there is the slightest thing wrong with your barbaric values

There are the values of your and every other country on the planet. Acknowledging it doesn't make me "unltra nationalistic", and all your refusal to recognize it is show how insanely ignorant or dishonest you are.


Philip Francis Queeg: But that's hardly surprising from a well known ultra-nationalist like you.

Haha, ok.

liam76: Standard procedure? So military institutions in Israel normally had palestenian kids hanging around as a deterent?

Yes, it was standard procedure of your heroes in the IDF.

The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said. Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz is prepared to make a personal appearance in court to defend the practice, ministry officials added. Human rights groups have frequently condemned the use of human shields.

The Israeli military believes that the use of Palestinian civilians can often defuse a tense situation.

liam76: You either go to war to defend your people or kill the other people. If you are willing to risk your kids in that war then you aren't going to war to defend your people. That hurts any legit justification you can have for war.

We certainly couldn't have attitudes that hurt justifying war can we? Seriously, do you see how utterly barbaric you are?

liam76: If every country valued children equally why don't first world nation have welfare and food programs for third worls countries at the same level as they do for their own children? Are you for the US spending just as much on the feeding and education of children in Syria as we do in the US? If not you are as "monstrous" as I am.

A starving Syrian child is every bit as much a tragedy as a starving American child. My compassion for children is not bounded by national borders as yours is. And yes, the fact that we as humans allow national borders to limit our aid and compassion for those in need is truly barbaric. Nationalism is tribalism raised to an obscene scale. The pernicious and deadly effects of nationalism are to be fought, not embraced as you do.

It is sad and tragic that you would allow a piece of cloth and an imaginary line determine how you would treat an innocent child.

Philip Francis Queeg: liam76: Standard procedure? So military institutions in Israel normally had palestenian kids hanging around as a deterent?

Yes, it was standard procedure of your heroes in the IDF.

The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said. Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz is prepared to make a personal appearance in court to defend the practice, ministry officials added. Human rights groups have frequently condemned the use of human shields.

The Israeli military believes that the use of Palestinian civilians can often defuse a tense situation.

Saying it can often difuse a tense situation = std procedure? Standard procedure to me would be making it the rule that when you go into hostile territories you have children as shields.

Philip Francis Queeg: liam76: You either go to war to defend your people or kill the other people. If you are willing to risk your kids in that war then you aren't going to war to defend your people. That hurts any legit justification you can have for war.

We certainly couldn't have attitudes that hurt justifying war can we? Seriously, do you see how utterly barbaric you are?

I didn't say we can't have those attitudes, just pointing out (and you have just agreed) that Palestenian justification for attacking Israel isn't supported by their actions.

Philip Francis Queeg: A starving Syrian child is every bit as much a tragedy as a starving American child. My compassion for children is not bounded by national borders as yours is. And yes, the fact that we as humans allow national borders to limit our aid and compassion for those in need is truly barbaric. Nationalism is tribalism raised to an obscene scale.

Maybe personally, but the actions of your govt say otherwise. And what are talking about are judging the actions of a govt (or group).


Philip Francis Queeg: The pernicious and deadly effects of nationalism are to be fought, not embraced as you do.

From the guy with the double standards on Israel and Palestine (you think since Israel doesn't punish the use of human shields enough they are on the same page as Paelstenians who don't punish them at all) that is rich.


Philip Francis Queeg: It is sad and tragic that you would allow a piece of cloth and an imaginary line determine how you would treat an innocent child

I guess I missed the point where I was elected god emperor of the world. Because last I checked those are decisions every country makes and none give equal support to all children of the world.

liam76: Maybe personally, but the actions of your govt say otherwise. And what are talking about are judging the actions of a govt (or group).

I condemn those actions. You embrace and justify them.

liam76: From the guy with the double standards on Israel and Palestine (you think since Israel doesn't punish the use of human shields enough they are on the same page as Paelstenians who don't punish them at all) that is rich.

Yes I soundly condemn both actions. I hold any use of human shield in abject and complete contempt. I will not justify the use of that tactic by either side or moderate my condemnation of them. Guilty as charged.

liam76: I guess I missed the point where I was elected god emperor of the world. Because last I checked those are decisions every country makes and none give equal support to all children of the world

Decisions you defend and embrace. Decisions that you justify. Do you deny that you willingly allow a piece of cloth and an imaginary line determine how you would treat an innocent child?

http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/

Philip Francis Queeg: Yes I soundly condemn both actions. I hold any use of human shield in abject and complete contempt. I will not justify the use of that tactic by either side or moderate my condemnation of them. Guilty as charged.

The both actions here are opne in which Israel punishes peopel for doing it and when where it is encouraged. For you to continually pretend they are the same show you have a clear double standard. Which is nothing new to me, just particularly funny given your current rant.


Philip Francis Queeg: Decisions you defend and embrace. Decisions that you justify. Do you deny that you willingly allow a piece of cloth and an imaginary line determine how you would treat an innocent child

Yes I deny it.

Jesus you are farking childish.

Very high and mighty childish and naive of you to say it is a "piece of cloth and an imaginary line". Those lines and bits of cloth aren't just imaginary or "bits of cloth" when people believe in them.

Your rants about all kids being equal are empty slogans. Even if everyone int he US thought the same as you it wouldn't make a bit of difference to those kids in Syria unless we were willing to put boots ont he ground and kill people (some of them would be children). Would you do that?

liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: Yes I soundly condemn both actions. I hold any use of human shield in abject and complete contempt. I will not justify the use of that tactic by either side or moderate my condemnation of them. Guilty as charged.

The both actions here are opne in which Israel punishes peopel for doing it and when where it is encouraged. For you to continually pretend they are the same show you have a clear double standard. Which is nothing new to me, just particularly funny given your current rant.


Philip Francis Queeg: Decisions you defend and embrace. Decisions that you justify. Do you deny that you willingly allow a piece of cloth and an imaginary line determine how you would treat an innocent child

Yes I deny it.

Jesus you are farking childish.

Very high and mighty childish and naive of you to say it is a "piece of cloth and an imaginary line". Those lines and bits of cloth aren't just imaginary or "bits of cloth" when people believe in them.

Your rants about all kids being equal are empty slogans. Even if everyone int he US thought the same as you it wouldn't make a bit of difference to those kids in Syria unless we were willing to put boots ont he ground and kill people (some of them would be children). Would you do that?

Yes, people do share your ultra-nationalism, no doubt. They like you believe that harming a child is acceptable if that child does not live on the same side of the line you do.They, like you, believe that sacred piece of cloth justifies heinous acts. They, like you, willingly surrender their human decency to the tribe.

If everyone believed as I do there would be no need to put boots on the ground to protect those children. They would not be being harmed to protect a tribe, a line, a piece of rotting, tattered, cloth.They wouldn't be "kids in Syria", they would simply be "kids" no different than any other child on the planet.

Am I naive and childish because I recognize the tremendous damage that the nationalism you embrace so fervently does to the world? Perhaps. However I'd rather be a child then be the barbaric ultra-nationalist you are.

Philip Francis Queeg: It is sad and tragic that you would allow a piece of cloth and an imaginary line determine how you would treat an innocent child.

This sort of intentional misrepresentation of other people's views is why you are in yellow and labeled as old yellow stain.

Philip Francis Queeg: Yes, people do share your ultra-nationalism, no doubt. They like you believe that harming a child is acceptable if that child does not live on the same side of the line you do.They, like you, believe that sacred piece of cloth justifies heinous acts. They, like you, willingly surrender their human decency to the tribe.

So once again you are reduced to outright lying.

Saying X is worse than Y doesn't mean you are fine with Y. Only a liar would continue to pretend that is what it means.

Philip Francis Queeg: If everyone believed as I do there would be no need to put boots on the ground to protect those children. They would not be being harmed to protect a tribe, a line, a piece of rotting, tattered, cloth.They wouldn't be "kids in Syria", they would simply be "kids" no different than any other child on the planet.

Pretty easy to spout your BS all kids are sacred line when you don't have the balls to say what you would do to help them.

If we lived in yoru dreamworld then your feelings may matter, but the fact is your feelings do absolutley nothing for those kids, but don't lett hat stop your from feeling high and mighty over doing nothing.


Philip Francis Queeg: Am I naive and childish because I recognize the tremendous damage that the nationalism you embrace so fervently does to the world? Perhaps.

You are naive and childish (not to mention dishonest) because you cry about the influence of "bits of cloth and imaginary lines" then turn around nad have double standards based on those lines and bits of cloth.

RoyBatty: Philip Francis Queeg: It is sad and tragic that you would allow a piece of cloth and an imaginary line determine how you would treat an innocent child.

This sort of intentional misrepresentation of other people's views is why you are in yellow and labeled as old yellow stain.

Huh, and I thought it was because you were familiar with 20th Century American literature.

liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: Yes, people do share your ultra-nationalism, no doubt. They like you believe that harming a child is acceptable if that child does not live on the same side of the line you do.They, like you, believe that sacred piece of cloth justifies heinous acts. They, like you, willingly surrender their human decency to the tribe.

So once again you are reduced to outright lying.

Saying X is worse than Y doesn't mean you are fine with Y. Only a liar would continue to pretend that is what it means.

Philip Francis Queeg: If everyone believed as I do there would be no need to put boots on the ground to protect those children. They would not be being harmed to protect a tribe, a line, a piece of rotting, tattered, cloth.They wouldn't be "kids in Syria", they would simply be "kids" no different than any other child on the planet.

Pretty easy to spout your BS all kids are sacred line when you don't have the balls to say what you would do to help them.

If we lived in yoru dreamworld then your feelings may matter, but the fact is your feelings do absolutley nothing for those kids, but don't lett hat stop your from feeling high and mighty over doing nothing.


Philip Francis Queeg: Am I naive and childish because I recognize the tremendous damage that the nationalism you embrace so fervently does to the world? Perhaps.

You are naive and childish (not to mention dishonest) because you cry about the influence of "bits of cloth and imaginary lines" then turn around nad have double standards based on those lines and bits of cloth.

Only a person of your monumental levels of intellectual dishonesty could claim a condemnation of the use of civilians as human shields in all cases is a double standard. Lines and bits of cloth regardless, it is a heinous and unforgivable act.

Clemkadidlefark: Giltric: On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine.

They arabs were always keen on rescuing the land from the jews....but never keen on rescuing the Palestinians.

"Palestinians" are their own people, abandoned by their home nations when those nations who went after Israel were crushed. They abandoned their own citizens and Israel had to establish refugee camps to try and handle this vast human disaster created by Arab adventures.

But then, most people know nothing of Yuri Andropov's sworn Cause. What he lived for every day.

From Pavel Stroilov's Behind Desert Storm to Yuri Andropv's Incandescent Hatred of Jews to the Mitrokhin Archives the real truth is Red Russia's bloody hands all over the Middle East with intrigues, assassinations, political corruption, propaganda piled upon propaganda saturating our American MSM and it's willing sycophants who tout the Party line. 

To defeat America Andropov like his predecessors and his antecedents in the new, sanitized version of Russian Evil chose a course of deploying the massive, intractable, easily stirred up and mostly illiterate Muslim mob to conduct a proxy war for Russia. Tie hatred of Jews to America as the Great Satan and let nature take it's course. Andropov had 4,000 agents in Egypt alone spewing propaganda and manipulating Muslim sentiments behind the lines.

Then there's Iran. And Syria, both client states. The tussle between the US and Russia over Turkey and Pakistan. Wherever you look the red hands of Russia are at work, or as Gorbachev said just this past week, the Arab Spring is the last act of our Cold War.

Or, we could just read Laura Logan's speech in Chicago Link October 07, 2012 

Meanwhile, me and my house say ...



It will always be Six Days, no matter what they try.

Love that image!

Philip Francis Queeg: Only a person of your monumental levels of intellectual dishonesty could claim a condemnation of the use of civilians as human shields in all cases is a double standard.

You are pretending a group that punishes people for doing it (Israel) is as bad as a group that encourages it (Palestine).

That is the dishonesty. Actually that is one of many exampels of your dishonesty in this thread.

Here is another one. Pretending that since I think using your own kids as human shields is worse than using somebody elses means I am ok with using somebody elses (even after being corrected numerous times) is dishonest.

liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: Only a person of your monumental levels of intellectual dishonesty could claim a condemnation of the use of civilians as human shields in all cases is a double standard.

You are pretending a group that punishes people for doing it (Israel) is as bad as a group that encourages it (Palestine).

That is the dishonesty. Actually that is one of many exampels of your dishonesty in this thread.

Here is another one. Pretending that since I think using your own kids as human shields is worse than using somebody elses means I am ok with using somebody elses (even after being corrected numerous times) is dishonest.

Your insistence that the nationality of the child makes the slightest bit or moral or ethical difference is what makes you the ultra-nationalist barbarian you are. Holding a child, any child, as human shield is utterly and completely despicable. That evil is not minimized in the slightest if the child is not of your tribe.

Philip Francis Queeg: RoyBatty: Philip Francis Queeg: It is sad and tragic that you would allow a piece of cloth and an imaginary line determine how you would treat an innocent child.

This sort of intentional misrepresentation of other people's views is why you are in yellow and labeled as old yellow stain.

Huh, and I thought it was because you were familiar with 20th Century American literature.

Huh? What are you referencing?

Philip Francis Queeg: Your insistence that the nationality of the child makes the slightest bit or moral or ethical difference is what makes you the ultra-nationalist barbarian you are.

If I was an "ultra-nationalist barbarian" I would rate the difference on if the kid was of my tribe. I am not.


Philip Francis Queeg: Holding a child, any child, as human shield is utterly and completely despicable.

How many times you going to lie about this one?

Pretending that since I think using your own kids as human shields is worse than using somebody elses means I am ok with using somebody elses (even after being corrected numerous times) is dishonest. :

Saying X is worse than Y doesn't mean you are fine with Y. Only a liar would continue to pretend that is what it means. :


Philip Francis Queeg: That evil is not minimized in the slightest if the child is not of your tribe

No but it does speak to why you are fighting. Fighting to save your people I can understand. If you are risking your kids you aren't "fighting to save your people" you are "fighting to kill the other guy" (like in Palestine).

So for those keeping score, you are still lying about my position on human shields, and you are still ignoring any differences between the stance Israel and Palestine have (which is extra funny because you are only doing so because it is Israel, even though you get mad abotu peopel having different standards because of what "bit of cloth" they fly).

Joe Blowme: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Girion47: Think about the money we've spent on wars outside our borders, what could it have gone to?

For the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars the US could have fitted every house in the country with either solar power or a geothermal heating/cooling system and had a few hundred billion dollars left over for hookers and blow.

Instead we gave 39+million people a chance at freedom and self determination Why do you hate brown people?

How's that working out?

There's ten times that number of people here who need bridges that aren't going to collapse under them and all sorts of other things that we could've done with that money.

RoyBatty: Philip Francis Queeg: RoyBatty: Philip Francis Queeg: It is sad and tragic that you would allow a piece of cloth and an imaginary line determine how you would treat an innocent child.

This sort of intentional misrepresentation of other people's views is why you are in yellow and labeled as old yellow stain.

Huh, and I thought it was because you were familiar with 20th Century American literature.

Huh? What are you referencing?

The Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk.

Philip Francis Queeg: Huh? What are you referencing?

The Caine Mutiny by Herman Wouk.

Seriously, the wiki says you're right. Go figure.

liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: Holding a child, any child, as human shield is utterly and completely despicable.

How many times you going to lie about this one?

It's a lie to say that Holding a child, any child, as human shield is utterly and completely despicable?

liam76: No but it does speak to why you are fighting. Fighting to save your people I can understand. If you are risking your kids you aren't "fighting to save your people" you are "fighting to kill the other guy" (like in Palestine).

Holding a human shield of the other side shows no less that you are only concerned about killing the other guy, even if that other guy is a small child. Holding a child of the enemy as a shield doesn't show anything noble about your motivation. It just shows that you are a cowardly monster.

Through all your twists here, the very core of your argument is that the nationality of the human shield is of great moral and ethical impact. That what side of the imaginary line that child lives on somehow makes them intrinsically different than another child. That somehow your motivation to protect life is enhanced if you are cowering behind one child and not another. That's what makes you an ultra-nationalist barbarian.

That someone would reject your nationalist arguments is profoundly alien to you. You cannot conceive of viewing a child without the filter of political boundaries. You must see that child as the Other. The flag you wrap yourself in leaves you blind to greater truths. It's sad.

Philip Francis Queeg: liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: Holding a child, any child, as human shield is utterly and completely despicable.

How many times you going to lie about this one?

It's a lie to say that Holding a child, any child, as human shield is utterly and completely despicable?

No. However the context you used it in (and earleir flat out said) where it was phrased as something I was disagreed with is a lie.

Philip Francis Queeg: Holding a human shield of the other side shows no less that you are only concerned about killing the other guy, even if that other guy is a small child. Holding a child of the enemy as a shield doesn't show anything noble about your motivation. It just shows that you are a cowardly monster.

If someone comes to my house to shoot me and I use my kids as a shield while screaming I am trying to protect my family you know I am full of shiat.

If I use some other family's kid as a shield and make that claim you don't know if it is BS.

I never said anything about "nobility".

Philip Francis Queeg: Through all your twists here, the very core of your argument is that the nationality of the human shield is of great moral and ethical impact.

No. The core of my argument is that it makes a difference. You have pretended it is of "of great moral and ethical impact". You have pretended this distinction is unique to me even though it is shared by every nation on earth.

You can't reason with a guy who would rather sacrifice his kids to hurt you, and that is the position of the Palestenians.

Philip Francis Queeg: That somehow your motivation to protect life is enhanced if you are cowering behind one child and not another.

Never said anything remotely like that. I said it proves you aren't trying to protect the people you are using as a shield.

Philip Francis Queeg: You cannot conceive of viewing a child without the filter of political boundaries.

You can't have a grown up conversation about the implications of using your own peopel as human shields vice using sombody elses. You can pretend all you want you are above political boundaries, and they don't really matter but all your petty wishing does nothing for those kids and does nothing to help you understand the conversation.

Philip Francis Queeg: It's sad

What is sad is 10 posts on about how messed up it is to put value on a flag (which I didn't) and you are still having a different standard when we are talking about the Israeli and Palestenain flag.

liam76: What is sad is 10 posts on about how messed up it is to put value on a flag (which I didn't) and you are still having a different standard when we are talking about the Israeli and Palestenain flag.

You simply cannot comprehend that nationality is not at all part of my view on this argument. Nationalism is the very water you swim in. You simple do not have the intellectual abilities to have this discussion. Your ultra-nationalist obsession prevents that. A All you see are Palestinians and Israelis. I see children. If we aren't even seeing the same reality, we cannot fruitfully discuss it.

I do hope the scales fall away from your eyes someday. If not, hopefully you don't pass your obsessive ultra-nationalism onto another generation.

Philip Francis Queeg: You simply cannot comprehend that nationality is not at all part of my view on this argument.

If that were the case you wouldn't find it impossible, some 15 posts in to admit that Israel's stance toward human shields is better than the Palestinians.

Nationality doesn't have to be part of your view, if you can't recognize how i is part of other peoples view you are a farking moron.


Philip Francis Queeg: Nationalism is the very water you swim in. You simple do not have the intellectual abilities to have this discussion.

How many times are you going to lie about that?

I never said the value of a child's life is dependent on their nationality.

Just because I don't have my head firmly up my ass and realize that even if I call borders "imaginary lines" and flags "bits of cloth" that they still have meaning to others. I won't refuse to accept the reality that how a group treats their kids matters, and can tell you something about that group that how they treat other kids doesn't.


Philip Francis Queeg: All you see are Palestinians and Israelis. I see children.

No you see Palestinians and Israelis, which is why you can't judge them on the same scale.

I see people who put their kids at risk and people who go out of their way to protect their kids.


Philip Francis Queeg:If we aren't even seeing the same reality, we cannot fruitfully discuss it.

We are seeing the same thing, you are just lying about how you filter it.