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(LA Times)   California: We'll give you a nickel deposit for every can you return for recycling. Nevada and Arizona: Hey, look, California's giving out free nickels   (latimes.com) divider line 143
    More: Asinine, California, recycling  
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20401 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Oct 2012 at 6:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-07 09:47:44 PM  

meanmutton: In Michigan, we have machines you have to put your bottles back in. They scan the bottles and if it's an out-of-state bottle, it gets rejected.


In California, we have hippies & make-work program folks in off-site recycling centers (i.e. not in a supermarket like in Michigan) who take a garbage bag full of empties, pick it up & approximate how much you have in your garbage bag, and then dole out your refund.
 
2012-10-07 09:49:22 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: meanmutton: Glendale: craxyd: FTA: Last summer, the state Department of Food and Agriculture counted all vehicles driving into the state with used beverage containers through 16 border stations.

This leads me to believe that CA has something resembling customs like when entering a different country.

They do, actually.

http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/pe/ExteriorExclusion/borders.html (pop s)

How the farkin is that legal?

Same way this is legal: 

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 500x400] 

Border Patrol Checkpoint at the San Diego/Orange county line.


To be fair, most of the time cars pass right through. The interior border checkpoint on the 5 is only usually active (and thus stopping traffic) at nights (10-midnight, after rush hour) and on the weekend. Those interior checkpoints are not unique to California.

In terms of agriculture checkpoints (what the "entering California" border stations really are), Hawaii has the same sort of controls. Granted, because Hawaii is a set of islands and access is restricted to sea/airports, the inspection can be made much more thorough without bothering people to much. While there is the advantage that California's borders are protected by high mountains and arid desert, conducting agricultural control California is a little more challenging. That being said, California produces a LOT of food and an invasive species can cause serious agricultural issues.

For those farkers who go into histrionics about "zomg police state in california!", realize that you don't have the constitutional right to cause an agricultural catastrophe, and that a worker asking "hey, do you have any food in there" is not a search.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_Interior_Che c kpoints
 
2012-10-07 09:54:39 PM  

DON.MAC: Aussie_As: ......

Did you read that? 29% of your tonnage of "recycling" is concrete. Other states don't count that do they?

How about the "Cardboard & waxed cardboard, 162,000t , 6%"
There is zero market in Australia for recycled waxed cardboard. That stuff all gets landfilled. And it gets landfilled in Victoria since that is where most of your cardboard gets processed.

What is your wine bottle recycling rate?

An empty truck or container going to SA can take 10 tons of cans or many times more in glass bottles. Are they counted? Why no... or are they?

Your cite shows 57 ktons of glass vs 18 ktons of Aluminium. So some how SA managed to recycle 40% of the aluminiums 44.1 ktons of cans sold in Australia in a given year. See why I don't think the numbers are quite right?

http://www.aluminium-cans.com.au/Facts.html


If "other states don't count (concrete recycling) do they", why is it so apparent in Victoria's and NSW's recycling activity? (cite and cite) These were just the first results which popped up when I GIS'd the state's name and the words recycling rate.

Here's yet another cite - this time from the Sydney Morning Herald, which has no reason to be pro-South Australian - talking up the results of our system. Link

I can't find a rate of recycling wine bottles in the 45 seconds I spent googling this, but these are acknowledged to form a low rate of litter. I would expect given we've had separated recycling for about 20 years its on a par with other locations.

Where does my citation show SA recycling 18Ktons of aluminium cans? It shows a bit under 4ktons. Perhaps you've confused all aluminium with aluminium cans? Link

I'm also confused about your reference to 6% cardboard recycling. You do understand taht the 6% refers to this as being 6% of all recycled material by mass, don't you?

Yes perhaps a few trucks from Victoria exploit the SA system, but they're very farking stupid if they're doing this all over SA because the petrol costs would be very prohibitive, yet we have recycling depots all over the place, not just near the Victorian border.
 
2012-10-07 10:14:14 PM  

proteus_b: not to mention the costs of the recycling fraud unit...


In the Environmental Justice System, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious misdemeanors are members of an elite squad known as the Recycling Fraud Unit. These are their stories.
*DONK DONK*
 
2012-10-07 10:20:38 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Agricultural checkpoints... they "stop" every vehicle coming into the State... "Where are you coming from? Any fruits or vegetables?" And they will search campers and shiat.


This. There are pests in other states that aren't present in California, and the state would like to keep that way. Being a major agricultural state agricultural pests are taken seriously.

Official Song of the California's Border Protection Stations
 
2012-10-07 10:21:27 PM  
Columbia, Mo has/had the deposit law. If you buy a case of whatever in town it cost $1.20/case more than if you buy it just out of town. The cans had to be returned intact (ie not crushed). Complete PITA so I always bought mine from out of town and let the homeless people figure it out.
 
2012-10-07 10:35:00 PM  
Someone should let the airline industry know
 
2012-10-07 10:49:36 PM  

Aussie_As: Here's yet another cite - this time from the Sydney Morning Herald, which has no reason to be pro-South Australian - talking up the results of our system. Link

I can't find a rate of recycling wine bottles in the 45 seconds I spent googling this, but these are acknowledged to form a low rate of litter. I would expect given we've had separated recycling for about 20 years its on a par with other locations.

Where does my citation show SA recycling 18Ktons of aluminium cans? It shows a bit under 4ktons. Perhaps you've confused all aluminium with aluminium cans? Link

I'm also confused about your reference to 6% cardboard recycling. You do understand taht the 6% refers to this as being 6% of all recycled material by mass, don't you?

Yes perhaps a few trucks from Victoria exploit the SA system, but they're very farking stupid if they're doing this all over SA because the petrol costs would be very prohibitive, yet we have recycling depots all over the place, not just near the Victorian border.


The recycled concrete on any data involving weight make all the data useless. It wasn't int the last Victoria data I saw which was used to prove the SA can law was more effective than Victorias.

Your other data sources are all the same data from the same sources, just reported differently.

Now the 4ktons of cans still makes the point that SA recycles more cans than they use. The 4kton number is more reasonable but the 18 ktons can be found on green group web pages. I expect it shows the fraud problem is even worse.

The trucks from Victoria would be driving empty trucks to pick up things in SA. Their extra load for the cans is just cash in the drivers pocket and they aren't driving there just to sell the cans.

I'm skeptical of most figures to prove how one system works better than another when you can't compare two of them directly. When you start throwing in other figures like superannuation firms investment in landfills shows a different skew in the data, something else is going on and the numbers aren't telling the whole story.
 
2012-10-07 10:58:22 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: Columbia, Mo has/had the deposit law. If you buy a case of whatever in town it cost $1.20/case more than if you buy it just out of town. The cans had to be returned intact (ie not crushed). Complete PITA so I always bought mine from out of town and let the homeless people figure it out.


As an experiment on social behavior, I helped someone set up a video camera up on the Mark Twain hall pointed at a can that didn't have the sticker on it and wasn't a common drink. Many bums picked it up and put it back down and it stayed there at least a week until some bum just put it in his bag. There was good money making the orange stickers too.

The litter rates in Columbia tend to be higher than Jeff City which doesn't have the deposit law and has a co-mingled recycle program.

There have been several studies at the Mizzou university hospital research groups that work with medical issues with the city homeless and many of the researchers have proposed a connection between going through garbage and some of the spread of some of the otherwise very rare conditions. Others counter that the bums that have the problems have no other likely source of income so they work in the only town in the area where it makes any real income.
 
2012-10-07 11:00:31 PM  

ceebeecates4: Pray 4 Mojo: meanmutton: Glendale: craxyd: FTA: Last summer, the state Department of Food and Agriculture counted all vehicles driving into the state with used beverage containers through 16 border stations.

This leads me to believe that CA has something resembling customs like when entering a different country.

They do, actually.

http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/pe/ExteriorExclusion/borders.html (pop s)

How the farkin is that legal?

Same way this is legal: 

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 500x400] 

Border Patrol Checkpoint at the San Diego/Orange county line.

To be fair, most of the time cars pass right through. The interior border checkpoint on the 5 is only usually active (and thus stopping traffic) at nights (10-midnight, after rush hour) and on the weekend. Those interior checkpoints are not unique to California.

In terms of agriculture checkpoints (what the "entering California" border stations really are), Hawaii has the same sort of controls. Granted, because Hawaii is a set of islands and access is restricted to sea/airports, the inspection can be made much more thorough without bothering people to much. While there is the advantage that California's borders are protected by high mountains and arid desert, conducting agricultural control California is a little more challenging. That being said, California produces a LOT of food and an invasive species can cause serious agricultural issues.

For those farkers who go into histrionics about "zomg police state in california!", realize that you don't have the constitutional right to cause an agricultural catastrophe, and that a worker asking "hey, do you have any food in there" is not a search.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_Interior_Che c kpoints


In my family, we always called them the "fruit stands." I seem to recall that Arizona also had them; I can't find a date for when they stopped. I'm sure that didn't turn out well.
 
2012-10-07 11:04:00 PM  

ceebeecates4: To be fair, most of the time cars pass right through. The interior border checkpoint on the 5 is only usually active (and thus stopping traffic) at nights (10-midnight, after rush hour) and on the weekend. Those interior checkpoints are not unique to California.


Wasn't making a judgement on the checkpoints really... I think they're completely pointless window dressing... but I just choose to avoid them in kinda the same way I avoid the TSA.

The big issue I have with them is the ones in East County SD use those loose, rubber speed bumps. They need to outlaw those farking things. I still have a nice pink scar on my forearm from hitting one of things on my motorcycle.
 
2012-10-07 11:05:09 PM  

wildcardjack: I don't know what spot prices are for bricked beverage cans, but it's about 30 cans to the pound. So it costs about $1.50 a pound to buy them back for recycling. If they get 85 cents per pound it might not cost them anything to operate after they get the deposits.


I dunnot how it is elsewhere, but in Michigan, the 10 cents is actually collected at the point of sale. So, you return a can, you get 10 cents, nothing is lost. You don't return a can, the company nets an EXTRA ten cent profit.
 
2012-10-07 11:43:54 PM  

legion_of_doo: meanmutton: In Michigan, we have machines you have to put your bottles back in. They scan the bottles and if it's an out-of-state bottle, it gets rejected.

In California, we have hippies & make-work program folks in off-site recycling centers (i.e. not in a supermarket like in Michigan) who take a garbage bag full of empties, pick it up & approximate how much you have in your garbage bag, and then dole out your refund.


That Simpsons episode makes sense now.

/contemporize, man!
//don't have/need a car (most of the time, borrow / rent when I do) but the party store down the street takes $2 worth back at a time. So every time I host a coworker gathering I end up with $2 off my next purchase for up to the next four visits. Also bonus, any obscure beer gets accepted there no questions asked.
//still takes awhile for out of staters to get into the habit
///20+ years and it's as natural to me as washing the dishes, cept I get cash back for that chore
 
2012-10-07 11:47:17 PM  
Anyone remember the Golden Goat? Standalone kiosks where you could drop cans. They chewed them up and dispensed change based on the price per pound, which was displayed on the outside in the same manner as gas prices. Good times for a ten-year-old. Pocket full of change, scampering off to buy penny whistles and moon rockets.
 
2012-10-07 11:47:49 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: wildcardjack: I don't know what spot prices are for bricked beverage cans, but it's about 30 cans to the pound. So it costs about $1.50 a pound to buy them back for recycling. If they get 85 cents per pound it might not cost them anything to operate after they get the deposits.

I dunnot how it is elsewhere, but in Michigan, the 10 cents is actually collected at the point of sale. So, you return a can, you get 10 cents, nothing is lost. You don't return a can, the company nets an EXTRA ten cent profit.


The *state* gets the profit.

AFAIK.

I realize I'm throwing down the 10 cents initially ... unless it's friends bringing over drinks then bonus.
 
2012-10-07 11:54:49 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: wildcardjack: I don't know what spot prices are for bricked beverage cans, but it's about 30 cans to the pound. So it costs about $1.50 a pound to buy them back for recycling. If they get 85 cents per pound it might not cost them anything to operate after they get the deposits.

I dunnot how it is elsewhere, but in Michigan, the 10 cents is actually collected at the point of sale. So, you return a can, you get 10 cents, nothing is lost. You don't return a can, the company nets an EXTRA ten cent profit.


It's the same in Oregon. For example, when you buy a 12 pack of soft drinks you pay the 60¢ (5¢ per can) deposit on top of the price. It's up to you whether or not you redeem the bottles/can and get your deposit back.
 
2012-10-07 11:59:19 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: I dunnot how it is elsewhere, but in Michigan, the 10 cents is actually collected at the point of sale. So, you return a can, you get 10 cents, nothing is lost. You don't return a can, the company nets an EXTRA ten cent profit.


In California, you pay the CRV at the register, but you don't return cans at the store.

Maybe the store has the hippie behind the store, but many stores don't have the recycling guy behind the store to do your refund.

It's often a separate stop on the shopping trip to do the recycling, so there's a disincentive to recycle that way. For many people, a lot of the cans/bottles go out in the recycling bins or the regular trash because of the inconvenience, so the rate at which people are actually redeeming the CRV does seem kind of high.

/it's like the state wants to keep your money!
 
2012-10-08 12:04:17 AM  
Some time ago I saw a guy in Texas with a Ford Econoline just STUFFED with empty cans. On top were four big bags, 4' diameter and 8' long, and he was headed to Michigan to resell them at 10 cents each.

In Texas they were paying 45 cents Lb at the time, it takes 26 cans to make a pound on average.

Interstate can smuggling? What will they think of next?
 
2012-10-08 12:30:28 AM  

foxyshadis: Glendale: I think California takes this a bit further in their own special way. Truck scales are everywhere, sure, but CA actually has everyone pass through their inspection stations as close as possible to the state line, as in the entire freeway diverts through them, not some optional thing only for commercial vehicles. I have Nevada plates on my car so they normally just wave me through before I can manage to come to a stop, but if not, the worst case is they stop you and ask where you're coming from. Or if you have a boat they'll go through it and make sure it isn't carrying anything they don't want to see. I suppose if it looked like you were transporting a lot of stuff they'd check that out, too.

That's odd, because my experience is this:

Pray 4 Mojo: Agricultural checkpoints... they "stop" every vehicle coming into the State... "Where are you coming from? Any fruits or vegetables?" And they will search campers and shiat.

They are pressured by the DEA to at least do a look-see inside for drugs, but yeah, they always ask about food. Flying into CA airports from international will ask the same thing, but not from other states, oddly. If you are bringing food, it has to be a one-day's supply; a box of oranges will get seized, as my mom found out coming from Oregon one time. Not sure about cheese, but we spent so much money on our cheese in Holland that we said nothing to get through.


My experience is pretty much driving I-80 from Reno through their Truckee checkpoint. I have to think they see NV plates and probably assume you're from Reno (and aren't towing a boat, or have a trailer, a camper, etc.). I've never had anything but wave-throughs from the checkpoint or at the most slowly rolling through long enough to tell them I was coming from Reno. I have seen them going through a boat with several guys and the owner off to the side. But for me personally I guess I've never tripped their spidey-produce sense.
 
2012-10-08 12:38:57 AM  

chuckufarlie: I lived in Michigan in 1979 and they had a law like this. They were smart enough that they also passed a law requiring that all cans sold in Michigan had that fact prominently displayed on the can. Poor California, maybe you should smarten up. Then again, you DID elect ARNOLD to be your governator.


So why were my friends able to bring bags upon bags of Ohio cans up to Michigan in the 90s and redeem them for 10 cents each at Meijer? I don't think your brilliant law was very effective.
 
2012-10-08 12:43:38 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: State officials say recycling centers in California are required to take reasonable precautions: They are not allowed, for instance, to buy more than 500 pounds of aluminum or 2,500 pounds of glass from any one person in any given day

Seems like you could cut the fraud back significantly by simply reducing that to 50 lbs/day. Even Drew doesn't generate 50 lbs of empty Heineken cans in a week.


BOTTLES. He gets them from Lootie.
 
2012-10-08 12:44:06 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: Pfft. Bring 'em to Michigan.


[images.mentalfloss.com image 500x368]


I used to do that!

// ohio!
 
2012-10-08 12:58:16 AM  

optikeye: Deposits used to be built in the prices of soda sold in glass bottles. It wasn't a law here but it was always that way for as long I could remember. It was only when 'no deposit/return' bottles where introduced some states started making laws about bottle returns.

You'd take the empties back to the supermarket and they'd give a few cents for the bottle (I think it was 25 cent for case)..The distributor would pick them up and return to the bottling plant where they where cleaned, refilled and capped. It wasn't a law it just something you did..like saving you empty glass milk bottles for pickup.


They still do that for chocolate milk and root beer milk at Whole Foods, but the deposit is now $1.50.
 
2012-10-08 01:01:30 AM  

legion_of_doo: It's often a separate stop on the shopping trip to do the recycling, so there's a disincentive to recycle that way. For many people, a lot of the cans/bottles go out in the recycling bins or the regular trash because of the inconvenience, so the rate at which people are actually redeeming the CRV does seem kind of high.


Exactly. I had a friend visit once and she was aghast that I throw my soda cans in the trash (and I drink diet soda like most people drink water). I told her that there are so many homeless people whose job is dumpster diving in my neighborhood, it's gonna get recycled anyway.

/csb
 
2012-10-08 01:08:04 AM  
I do miss michigans bottle returns system. It was so much easier than it is here in Cali. Trying to find an open recycling center here is a pain in the ass. The one near me was only open 1 day a week for years. And I was always working when it was open. I figure that for how few returnables we have it is just not worth it to return them. At least in MI I could just take them to the grocery store, liquor store, 7-11, etc to return them.

\Also drank plenty

peewinkle: Mad Scientist: I used to play that scam when I lived in Michigan many years ago. Back then, it was a dime per can or bottle. I'd gather them up when I visited family in Chicago, and net a few buck bringing them back home. But then the grocery store went to automatic machines, and would reject containers with the wrong bar code, or brands they didn't sell.

The state of Michigan still made millions off unclaimed deposits, but I couldn't return Old Style cans in Ann Arbor.

I've never seen Old Style sold here, and I'm 40.

/used to rock a trunk full off cans back myself when I came home before the machines


They sold it in Mt Pleasant when i was in college there in the 90's.
 
2012-10-08 01:35:43 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: To solve the problem of out of state people inflating numbers, just adjust the payout on cans to reflect market value. If people still want to drive across the boarder and get money, yay for entrepreneurship. To solve the problem of actual fraud (inflating numbers or re-selling the same load), get some investigators in the statehouse. Ta-da. If you want to be eco-friendly, just say that any income gained by recycling cans and bottles isn't subject to state taxation.
um.


So you are one of those "ha-ha it's not a tax it's a fee " creeps? It IS a tax/fee on the buyer when we are charged the deposit, but it's all but impossible to get the deposit back. Far locations, open just 9-3, long lines, haunted locations. To waste an hour to get 90 cents for 18 cans? Not a tax? The extra tax is paid when you buy the drink.
 
2012-10-08 01:47:27 AM  
Hell, I do this all the time. Mass has a bottle return program. RI doesn't. A good portion of the time, you get the returnable bottles/cans in RI, so you're not paying the deposit fee. I then take those back to MA and get the nickle from 'em. Then again, I do most of my grocery shopping in MA anyway. It's less expensive there.
 
2012-10-08 01:51:13 AM  
Sounds like a job for the TSA
 
2012-10-08 02:33:13 AM  
How is it "fraud" -- seems like the natural result of an idiotic policy.

/and I say that as a Californian
 
2012-10-08 02:42:23 AM  

Glendale: foxyshadis: Glendale: I think California takes this a bit further in their own special way. Truck scales are everywhere, sure, but CA actually has everyone pass through their inspection stations as close as possible to the state line, as in the entire freeway diverts through them, not some optional thing only for commercial vehicles. I have Nevada plates on my car so they normally just wave me through before I can manage to come to a stop, but if not, the worst case is they stop you and ask where you're coming from. Or if you have a boat they'll go through it and make sure it isn't carrying anything they don't want to see. I suppose if it looked like you were transporting a lot of stuff they'd check that out, too.

That's odd, because my experience is this:

Pray 4 Mojo: Agricultural checkpoints... they "stop" every vehicle coming into the State... "Where are you coming from? Any fruits or vegetables?" And they will search campers and shiat.

They are pressured by the DEA to at least do a look-see inside for drugs, but yeah, they always ask about food. Flying into CA airports from international will ask the same thing, but not from other states, oddly. If you are bringing food, it has to be a one-day's supply; a box of oranges will get seized, as my mom found out coming from Oregon one time. Not sure about cheese, but we spent so much money on our cheese in Holland that we said nothing to get through.

My experience is pretty much driving I-80 from Reno through their Truckee checkpoint. I have to think they see NV plates and probably assume you're from Reno (and aren't towing a boat, or have a trailer, a camper, etc.). I've never had anything but wave-throughs from the checkpoint or at the most slowly rolling through long enough to tell them I was coming from Reno. I have seen them going through a boat with several guys and the owner off to the side. But for me personally I guess I've never tripped their spidey-produce sense.


It's easy to avoid the checkpoints altogether if you want to. They only exist on the major roads (interstates) -- if you get off the interstate before the border and just drive on back-roads, there's no check. I crossed from AZ to CA near Needles, CA on in-town streets and never was hassled with a checkpoint. Imagine that -- state-to-state, with no papers.

www.ibiblio.org
 
2012-10-08 08:27:18 AM  
I have no idea how people were able to return crushed cans in MI. As far back as I remember, early 80's, stores would not accept crushed cans.
 
2012-10-08 08:37:02 AM  

bingo the psych-o: Introitus: Oh darn, now California has a bunch of aluminum.

That means they have stealth bombers. I don't even have cannons yet!


I see what you did there!
 
2012-10-08 09:14:44 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: MI's 10 cent deposit law, last I heard, was *the* most successful recycling program in the country. Considering it was started as an anti-littering thing, that's pretty effing awesome. (I still have friends who pick up an easy $30-$50 for an hour or two of work on football Saturdays just from deposits. If you toss it, *someone* will find it and get the effing dime).


I really, really wish Illinois would do that as well. Nothing like getting home from Michigan and seeing tossed cans and bottles lying on the roadside.
 
2012-10-08 09:17:38 AM  
It took 3 whole posts. Fark, I am disappoint.
 
2012-10-08 09:57:26 AM  

foxyshadis: Glendale: I think California takes this a bit further in their own special way. Truck scales are everywhere, sure, but CA actually has everyone pass through their inspection stations as close as possible to the state line, as in the entire freeway diverts through them, not some optional thing only for commercial vehicles. I have Nevada plates on my car so they normally just wave me through before I can manage to come to a stop, but if not, the worst case is they stop you and ask where you're coming from. Or if you have a boat they'll go through it and make sure it isn't carrying anything they don't want to see. I suppose if it looked like you were transporting a lot of stuff they'd check that out, too.

That's odd, because my experience is this:

Pray 4 Mojo: Agricultural checkpoints... they "stop" every vehicle coming into the State... "Where are you coming from? Any fruits or vegetables?" And they will search campers and shiat.

They are pressured by the DEA to at least do a look-see inside for drugs, but yeah, they always ask about food. Flying into CA airports from international will ask the same thing, but not from other states, oddly. If you are bringing food, it has to be a one-day's supply; a box of oranges will get seized, as my mom found out coming from Oregon one time. Not sure about cheese, but we spent so much money on our cheese in Holland that we said nothing to get through.


It has nothing to do with the DEA. Jesus. California is an agricultural state(5th largest ag output in the world, according to wiki). It produces most of the nation's winter produce. We had the med fly in the 80s and we worked very hard to get rid of it, including setting up checkpoints to keep infested produce from coming in.
 
2012-10-08 10:26:30 AM  

bwilson27: Employees were so lazy at the Lincoln City, OR Safeway that all you would have to do is throw your bag of empty cans in a bin in the back room and tell them how much you had. I always had 15.00 more than I thought I had, imagine that!


I miss living in Lincoln City. Was there from 96-02. I used to save all my cans, and head to Kenny's IGA in Taft to return them. Good times!
 
2012-10-08 12:03:29 PM  

Kevin72: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: To solve the problem of out of state people inflating numbers, just adjust the payout on cans to reflect market value. If people still want to drive across the boarder and get money, yay for entrepreneurship. To solve the problem of actual fraud (inflating numbers or re-selling the same load), get some investigators in the statehouse. Ta-da. If you want to be eco-friendly, just say that any income gained by recycling cans and bottles isn't subject to state taxation.
um.

So you are one of those "ha-ha it's not a tax it's a fee " creeps? It IS a tax/fee on the buyer when we are charged the deposit, but it's all but impossible to get the deposit back. Far locations, open just 9-3, long lines, haunted locations. To waste an hour to get 90 cents for 18 cans? Not a tax? The extra tax is paid when you buy the drink.


So you're angry that people come across the state line for economic reasons. I assume you've never bought gas, groceries, or "sin tax" items in another state to get more bang for your buck, just for the sake of consistency.

Read my proposal again. If you pay market value per pound of aluminum, the tax/fee/surcharge/whatever you want to call it goes to administering the program and investigating commodity fraud (which is what selling the same load twice is). Then, one can becomes as good as the next. If you're really that upset about it, drive the other way across the border and buy your cans.
 
2012-10-08 03:06:24 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Kevin72: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: To solve the problem of out of state people inflating numbers, just adjust the payout on cans to reflect market value. If people still want to drive across the boarder and get money, yay for entrepreneurship. To solve the problem of actual fraud (inflating numbers or re-selling the same load), get some investigators in the statehouse. Ta-da. If you want to be eco-friendly, just say that any income gained by recycling cans and bottles isn't subject to state taxation.
um.

So you are one of those "ha-ha it's not a tax it's a fee " creeps? It IS a tax/fee on the buyer when we are charged the deposit, but it's all but impossible to get the deposit back. Far locations, open just 9-3, long lines, haunted locations. To waste an hour to get 90 cents for 18 cans? Not a tax? The extra tax is paid when you buy the drink.

So you're angry that people come across the state line for economic reasons. I assume you've never bought gas, groceries, or "sin tax" items in another state to get more bang for your buck, just for the sake of consistency.

Read my proposal again. If you pay market value per pound of aluminum, the tax/fee/surcharge/whatever you want to call it goes to administering the program and investigating commodity fraud (which is what selling the same load twice is). Then, one can becomes as good as the next. If you're really that upset about it, drive the other way across the border and buy your cans.


Just pissed that i would like to do the right thing and recycle. But all i see is crv is so easy to tax from me, and the opportunity to actually recycle, paid or not, is totally Sisyphusian.
 
2012-10-08 04:48:15 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: It's the same in Oregon. For example, when you buy a 12 pack of soft drinks you pay the 60¢ (5¢ per can) deposit on top of the price. It's up to you whether or not you redeem the bottles/can and get your deposit back.


When I first moved to Oregon I took my empties to the local supermarket and dealt with the machine, never again. My time is worth more than that. Now I just collect bags of them and wait until some kids are collecting for something worthwhile (not a trip to jebus camp) and donate.
 
2012-10-08 06:11:53 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: fusillade762: Bathia_Mapes: Meh. Oregon passed the Bottle Bill in 1971. Most stores have bottle return centers nowadays and you must redeem the deposit chit the machine dispenses the same day and at the same store.

Yeah, I was thinking "Good luck processing a semi trailer full of cans and bottles with one of these"

[insidescoopsf.sfgate.com image 600x448]

But I'm guessing CA doesn't make you do it yourself.

And there's also a limit to how many cans/bottles you can redeem too.


Am I a bad person for simply throwing my cans and bottles into the recycling container that gets picked up each week? I probably throw away $2-4 dollars a week, but figure I'd pay somebody that to wait in line at grocery store recycling bins and deal with all the sticky cans for me. Wonder if Waste Management tries to collect those nickles?
 
2012-10-08 08:32:12 PM  

caddisfly: Bathia_Mapes: fusillade762: Bathia_Mapes: Meh. Oregon passed the Bottle Bill in 1971. Most stores have bottle return centers nowadays and you must redeem the deposit chit the machine dispenses the same day and at the same store.

Yeah, I was thinking "Good luck processing a semi trailer full of cans and bottles with one of these"

[insidescoopsf.sfgate.com image 600x448]

But I'm guessing CA doesn't make you do it yourself.

And there's also a limit to how many cans/bottles you can redeem too.

Am I a bad person for simply throwing my cans and bottles into the recycling container that gets picked up each week? I probably throw away $2-4 dollars a week, but figure I'd pay somebody that to wait in line at grocery store recycling bins and deal with all the sticky cans for me. Wonder if Waste Management tries to collect those nickles?


I'm even worse, I don't put out the recycling until the morning before they pick it up so the guys driving the pickup trucks with the giant particle board walls don't grab it first.
 
2012-10-08 09:47:36 PM  

caddisfly: Bathia_Mapes: fusillade762: Bathia_Mapes: Meh. Oregon passed the Bottle Bill in 1971. Most stores have bottle return centers nowadays and you must redeem the deposit chit the machine dispenses the same day and at the same store.

Yeah, I was thinking "Good luck processing a semi trailer full of cans and bottles with one of these"

[insidescoopsf.sfgate.com image 600x448]

But I'm guessing CA doesn't make you do it yourself.

And there's also a limit to how many cans/bottles you can redeem too.

Am I a bad person for simply throwing my cans and bottles into the recycling container that gets picked up each week? I probably throw away $2-4 dollars a week, but figure I'd pay somebody that to wait in line at grocery store recycling bins and deal with all the sticky cans for me. Wonder if Waste Management tries to collect those nickles?


Probably not since it's likely not too cost effective for them. They likely process it along with the rest of the metal they get. Aluminum with aluminum, tin cans with tin cans, etc. Same goes for the plastic soda bottles.
 
2012-10-09 09:55:10 AM  

bhcompy: foxyshadis: Glendale: I think California takes this a bit further in their own special way. Truck scales are everywhere, sure, but CA actually has everyone pass through their inspection stations as close as possible to the state line, as in the entire freeway diverts through them, not some optional thing only for commercial vehicles. I have Nevada plates on my car so they normally just wave me through before I can manage to come to a stop, but if not, the worst case is they stop you and ask where you're coming from. Or if you have a boat they'll go through it and make sure it isn't carrying anything they don't want to see. I suppose if it looked like you were transporting a lot of stuff they'd check that out, too.

That's odd, because my experience is this:

Pray 4 Mojo: Agricultural checkpoints... they "stop" every vehicle coming into the State... "Where are you coming from? Any fruits or vegetables?" And they will search campers and shiat.

They are pressured by the DEA to at least do a look-see inside for drugs, but yeah, they always ask about food. Flying into CA airports from international will ask the same thing, but not from other states, oddly. If you are bringing food, it has to be a one-day's supply; a box of oranges will get seized, as my mom found out coming from Oregon one time. Not sure about cheese, but we spent so much money on our cheese in Holland that we said nothing to get through.

It has nothing to do with the DEA. Jesus. California is an agricultural state(5th largest ag output in the world, according to wiki). It produces most of the nation's winter produce. We had the med fly in the 80s and we worked very hard to get rid of it, including setting up checkpoints to keep infested produce from coming in.


Yeah there's nothing sinister about CA's agricultural checkpoints. Weird to anyone who isn't familiar with such things, sure, but not really a big deal.
 
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