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(MLive.com)   Should students be allowed to tape lectures on their phones? Teacher contract forbids the practice   (mlive.com) divider line 181
    More: Interesting, University of New York, Graduate School of Journalism, lessons  
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7498 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Oct 2012 at 5:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-07 08:03:39 PM  

Don't Tongue the Reaper!: Temescal: Why don't you like it? I'm genuinely curious.

Can't speak for some beer drinker, but most of us consider our lectures our intellectual property. It complicates things.


I also consider you wife to be my property, but that doesn't make it so.
 
2012-10-07 08:06:20 PM  
If I were paying for a class and felt recording would help me pass, I would do so, with or without permission, and my doing it wouldn't be obvious to the professor.

You know who would be hurt by this?
.
.
.
.
.
.
no one.
 
2012-10-07 08:08:31 PM  

hlehmann: I also consider you wife to be my property, but that doesn't make it so.


Producing course lectures requires a great deal of research and work. Just like a paper or presentation given at a professional conference. It is absolutely my intellectual property. In my syllabus I state that I personally allow my students to record my lectures, especially those with certain kinds of learning disabilities--as long as they don't try to sell/give them to others. But that is because I allow it--and any student caught violating that clause is disenrolled.
 
2012-10-07 08:09:01 PM  

hudef: Good thing nobody uses tape recorders any more.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 493x427]


Back in the day,,,
Every 15 minutes, clackety bang, switch, snap.

/the sound of flipping tape

//wha's "tape"?
 
2012-10-07 08:10:03 PM  

Girion47: If I were paying for a class and felt recording would help me pass, I would do so, with or without permission, and my doing it wouldn't be obvious to the professor.


Keep on thinking that. We in no way have any experience with people cheating. None whatsoever.
 
2012-10-07 08:11:50 PM  

FloydA: The weird thing for me is the students who snap pictures of the slides I show, because I also post the slideshows online


I post slideshows online in Blackboard, but with no voiceover. Precisely so that students don't try to substitute them for coming to class.
 
2012-10-07 08:14:03 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Anything done by government employees should be viewable by the public.


You're welcome to watch me take a shiat in the bathroom next to the classrooms I use. But that's it. Anything else requires you to pay tuition.
 
2012-10-07 08:17:15 PM  

Somacandra: Girion47: If I were paying for a class and felt recording would help me pass, I would do so, with or without permission, and my doing it wouldn't be obvious to the professor.

Keep on thinking that. We in no way have any experience with people cheating. None whatsoever.


Recording a lecture isn't "cheating"
 
2012-10-07 08:19:24 PM  

Nmissi: Je5tEr: I never recorded a teacher either, but I always got in trouble for not taking notes. I learned early on I was much better off by not taking notes than diverting my attention from the teacher to write something down and then return my focus to the lecture. I still don't take notes, and it gets me all sorts of negativity at work, even though I can quote nearly everything of importance that was said in any meeting I'm forced to suffer through.

When I was in college, a prof once called me out publicly for not paying attention- because I was looking down at my notebook, taking notes. I told her I was paying attention, and read back part of her last section. She then decided that none of us should take notes, since we should be "engaging with her." Yes, it was a communications class, and I did do my part in discussion. But the problem is, I don't recall what I do not write. Literally, I write it, I remember it- I don't even have to read it later, the act of writing sort of engraves the information on my brain. But if I don't write it down, I lose about half of what's said.

Had to go notebook-less for the rest of that semester in that class, and I still begrudge her my C; I'd have had an A if she'd let me take notes.


A teacher isn't your boss. I know it sounds trite, but especially at a university, they work for you. Yes, they run the class, but I would have told the professor, sorry but this is what's best for me to do well in this class and I'm going to continue doing what I know works best for me. If she insisted, I would have to insist back. Sorry, prof, you're going to have to live with it. If, because of this, you want me out of your class, I guess I'll have to drop it because you're an asshole.
 
2012-10-07 08:20:39 PM  

Somacandra: FloydA: The weird thing for me is the students who snap pictures of the slides I show, because I also post the slideshows online

I post slideshows online in Blackboard, but with no voiceover. Precisely so that students don't try to substitute them for coming to class.


What's the difference between the slideshow + voice over vs being in the class watching you talk and clicking next on the controller?
 
2012-10-07 08:20:42 PM  

Somacandra: Girion47: If I were paying for a class and felt recording would help me pass, I would do so, with or without permission, and my doing it wouldn't be obvious to the professor.

Keep on thinking that. We in no way have any experience with people cheating. None whatsoever.


How does recording something to review later equate to cheating? Don't be ridiculous. And don't kid yourself that you couldn't be recorded without knowing it.
 
2012-10-07 08:23:09 PM  

office_despot: Theaetetus: office_despot: I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

If only there were some way of keeping track of who shows up to class and who doesn't, and writing off the ones who miss, say, three classes. I guess it's impossible, though.

I teach at a pretty advanced level. Taking attendance on people over 21 is ridiculous. I don't make people ask permission to go to the bathroom, either.

There have been some electronic efforts to take attendance but they haven't worked so far.

In all seriousness... I know students believe that professors "are trying" to fail them. This is 99% crazy-untrue. I personally would like everyone to have an "A" at the end of the semester. So come to class, be an active listener, and take notes!


That IS a crazy attitude especially at the graduate level. Everyone in the institution wants a grad student to make it through with a degree, or else the program's ratings will suffer. I heard enough speeches from a university president to know that on-time graduation rates are about the only metric that institutions use, and I know enough profs to know that each successfully mentored grad is another notch on their belt.

Got most of a MS in GISc and five years after leaving the program they are still begging me to return to complete it. I keep telling them I'll do it if they revamp their student loan contracts so they can't unilaterally demand loan repayment while students are taking classes. Which they did to everyone in my program during the financial crisis.
 
2012-10-07 08:23:13 PM  
I have an idea, why even have classes? Just post the recording of the lectures online, They can watch them whenever they feel like it, make it so students can take the quizes/tests anytime they feel like, bam 9 months of school shortened down to a few weeks.
 
2012-10-07 08:23:39 PM  

Girion47: If I were paying for a class and felt recording would help me pass, I would do so, with or without permission


This.
 
2012-10-07 08:24:32 PM  
I wear a very small Olympus recorder and record every lecture and make them available to any of my students.
Don't see what all the hub-bub is about.
We also chat about IP and copyrights and all that.
Not Pollyannish either.
There's nothing you can learn from anyone that comes from a deity so it's all in a book somewhere.
 
2012-10-07 08:27:26 PM  

Somacandra: Girion47: If I were paying for a class and felt recording would help me pass, I would do so, with or without permission, and my doing it wouldn't be obvious to the professor.

Keep on thinking that. We in no way have any experience with people cheating. None whatsoever.


Between cell phones, mp3 players and a zillion other handheld portable electronics that can record, you honestly think you can pick up on one of them recording? My first mp3 player that I used to record lectures was the size of a pack of gum. I found I could have it in my T-shirt pocket and it would record just fine. Sit a few rows back, but towards the front of the class, and I got a good recording of what was being said. I seriously doubt you'd find that. Do you frisk everybody in the class then check all electronics you find to see if they are recording?

You think finding a passive recording device on somebodies person is the same as finding some way somebody is using for cheating? If you're that good at spotting somebody wearing a wire, you should be working for the mob, not for a college

You'd honestly try to get somebody over recording you? Get them suspended or expelled? Fail them? Over that petty crap?

Get over yourself. Seriously. You, and your lectures, are not that important.

Lighten up, Francis.
 
2012-10-07 08:30:30 PM  
I had a prof, Dr. Bawa Singh, in college as an undergrad who did not allow any recordings in his class. This was back around 1969 or 1970, so any recording would be kind of obvious as it would be on cassette recorders. I cannot recall now what he said the consequences would be if anyone tried, but they were dire enough that no one ever tried.
 
2012-10-07 08:32:35 PM  

office_despot: I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.


But it's not your problem at all. They're in college. They're "adults" and it's 100% their problem. It's so "not fair" except that it totally is. Hell, one time I had this kid, I mean adult, come to me after the semester was over because he got a C and needed an A to keep his scholarship. Sorry, bud. I can't just give you an A because you ask for one and you should have come to me a long time ago. Your scholarship is not my problem, especially not now after the semester is over.
 
2012-10-07 08:38:46 PM  

Aikidogamer: Theaetetus: office_despot: I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

If only there were some way of keeping track of who shows up to class and who doesn't, and writing off the ones who miss, say, three classes. I guess it's impossible, though.

Most of my professors did exactly this.


When did you go to school? My first trip through college was in '94 and no school I visited penalized attendence as a policy. "You are old enough to make your own decisions, so while individual instructors may take attendence they won't lower your grade for missing class time" has been the mantra.

My second go-round the only one who kept attendence was the seriously ODC Latin instructor, who was the Dean of Admission for the school of medicine. If one student sat somewhere different he'd throw a hissy fit. He would also stop in mid-lesson to remove staples from the corkboard and needed everyone's socks to be straight with no wrinkles showing or he'd toss you out for the day.

Other profs cared about attendence but nobody else officially tracked it because it meant nothing.

/almost all my undergrad classes were seminar format anyway
 
2012-10-07 08:40:39 PM  

jigger: office_despot: I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

But it's not your problem at all. They're in college. They're "adults" and it's 100% their problem. It's so "not fair" except that it totally is. Hell, one time I had this kid, I mean adult, come to me after the semester was over because he got a C and needed an A to keep his scholarship. Sorry, bud. I can't just give you an A because you ask for one and you should have come to me a long time ago. Your scholarship is not my problem, especially not now after the semester is over.


YOU go have that talk with my dean, then.
If half my >100-person class fails, it's my problem, trust me.
 
2012-10-07 08:53:50 PM  

propasaurus: Imagine a teacher reading aloud from Mark Twain, including the as-written repeated references to the "N****r Jim" character. Imagine a student putting together a video compilation, recorded on his iPhone, of that teacher repeatedly saying "N****g N****r N****r N****r" and posting it to YouTube.


I would have to respect the EPIC trolling there...

swingerofbirches: Also had another one in middle school who let it be known that she could not be photographed (something about her religion and the camera stealing her soul), which led to a student chasing her around the classroom with a camera. I felt sorry for her, anyhow . . .


Don't, that is what happens when you give 12-14 year olds that kind of ammunition. Teachable moment there, to be sure.

office_despot: I used to work at a private university that had the same rule you describe about ownership of things one did at home. Some companies also have this. My bf and I designed a new bike rack (of all things) and briefly considered trying to patent it before we realized we were both screwed in this exact way.


I hate rules like this. For instance, if I was an IT guy and designed the next step forward in anti-material rifle, I could not patent it. Even though it has Fark all to do with computers. (correct me if I misunderstand this rule) This is garbage.
 
2012-10-07 08:55:21 PM  

Aikidogamer: propasaurus: Imagine a teacher reading aloud from Mark Twain, including the as-written repeated references to the "N****r Jim" character. Imagine a student putting together a video compilation, recorded on his iPhone, of that teacher repeatedly saying "N****g N****r N****r N****r" and posting it to YouTube.

I would have to respect the EPIC trolling there...

swingerofbirches: Also had another one in middle school who let it be known that she could not be photographed (something about her religion and the camera stealing her soul), which led to a student chasing her around the classroom with a camera. I felt sorry for her, anyhow . . .

Don't, that is what happens when you give 12-14 year olds that kind of ammunition. Teachable moment there, to be sure.

office_despot: I used to work at a private university that had the same rule you describe about ownership of things one did at home. Some companies also have this. My bf and I designed a new bike rack (of all things) and briefly considered trying to patent it before we realized we were both screwed in this exact way.

I hate rules like this. For instance, if I was an IT guy and designed the next step forward in anti-material rifle, I could not patent it. Even though it has Fark all to do with computers. (correct me if I misunderstand this rule) This is garbage.


The company would have to prove that they provided you with the tools or inspiration for the invention, or that you worked on it, on company time.
 
2012-10-07 09:10:29 PM  

office_despot: jigger: office_despot: I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

But it's not your problem at all. They're in college. They're "adults" and it's 100% their problem. It's so "not fair" except that it totally is. Hell, one time I had this kid, I mean adult, come to me after the semester was over because he got a C and needed an A to keep his scholarship. Sorry, bud. I can't just give you an A because you ask for one and you should have come to me a long time ago. Your scholarship is not my problem, especially not now after the semester is over.

YOU go have that talk with my dean, then.
If half my >100-person class fails, it's my problem, trust me.


If half your 100 person class is failing, it's probably not because of note-recording.

Listen profs, different people learn in different ways and, while some are great at taking notes while listening, others have for a long time preferred to be able to reference exactly what was said when studying later.

Furthermore, I understand the intellectual property issue but many of you provide frankly awful notes if the assumption is that we are going to be actively listening and learning during your lecture. I've gotten a BS and a medical degree and yearly I take lectures for CE and I would say a good 65% of you provide notes that are a sparse outline of what you intend to cover and we are somehow expected to scramble to write down in detail what you say off the cuff in the margins of what you provided while somehow absorbing what is being said. All of this under the false assumption that any of us who have trouble learning this way are somehow not interested in paying attention, when for many of us the opposite is true.

Stop trying to teach with the purpose of outwitting the lazy and stupid. You can't help those people anyway.
 
2012-10-07 09:11:31 PM  

office_despot: Theaetetus: office_despot: I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

If only there were some way of keeping track of who shows up to class and who doesn't, and writing off the ones who miss, say, three classes. I guess it's impossible, though.

I teach at a pretty advanced level. Taking attendance on people over 21 is ridiculous. I don't make people ask permission to go to the bathroom, either.

There have been some electronic efforts to take attendance but they haven't worked so far.

In all seriousness... I know students believe that professors "are trying" to fail them. This is 99% crazy-untrue. I personally would like everyone to have an "A" at the end of the semester. So come to class, be an active listener, and take notes!


Need to keep up enrollment. Sales, sales, sales. Jaded from working for a University, in collections.

I say pad with an easy class in case you need to drop, grade withheld. If you need to maintain a minimun amount of credits for financial aid. Then it's easy.


/we are farked
 
2012-10-07 09:14:29 PM  

office_despot: YOU go have that talk with my dean, then.
If half my >100-person class fails, it's my problem, trust me.


and that is a brutal problem with for-profit educational institutions, I saw the same bullshiat happen with my own class. First semester honestly 1/3 of the class failed out bigtime because well frankly they were goofing off or genuinely incapable of mastering the material yet the management pushed to some how keep them enrolled (cash!). It was disgusting to see these people continue further despite blatantly cheating or being completely under-capable of learning the content.
 
2012-10-07 09:19:44 PM  

Theaetetus: office_despot: I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

If only there were some way of keeping track of who shows up to class and who doesn't, and writing off the ones who miss, say, three classes. I guess it's impossible, though.


That's the entire purpose of exams, I thought.

/Dropping people for absences doesn't stop them from whining any more than giving them a C, either.
 
2012-10-07 09:25:32 PM  

BolloxReader: When did you go to school? My first trip through college was in '94 and no school I visited penalized attendence as a policy. "You are old enough to make your own decisions, so while individual instructors may take attendence they won't lower your grade for missing class time" has been the mantra.


That's true of almost all classes in my experience, but there are some where class participation is a large part of the point of the class and you're required to not just be there but to participate.


tiamet4: ...a good 65% of you provide notes that are a sparse outline of what you intend to cover and we are somehow expected to scramble to write down in detail what you say off the cuff in the margins


As devil's advocate & future-professor-hopeful for a second: the complete notes are typically called "the textbook". :-)

(That said, how many times did I actually go through a textbook as a student? Not many.)
 
2012-10-07 09:29:32 PM  

Girion47: Aikidogamer: propasaurus: Imagine a teacher reading aloud from Mark Twain, including the as-written repeated references to the "N****r Jim" character. Imagine a student putting together a video compilation, recorded on his iPhone, of that teacher repeatedly saying "N****g N****r N****r N****r" and posting it to YouTube.

I would have to respect the EPIC trolling there...

swingerofbirches: Also had another one in middle school who let it be known that she could not be photographed (something about her religion and the camera stealing her soul), which led to a student chasing her around the classroom with a camera. I felt sorry for her, anyhow . . .

Don't, that is what happens when you give 12-14 year olds that kind of ammunition. Teachable moment there, to be sure.

office_despot: I used to work at a private university that had the same rule you describe about ownership of things one did at home. Some companies also have this. My bf and I designed a new bike rack (of all things) and briefly considered trying to patent it before we realized we were both screwed in this exact way.

I hate rules like this. For instance, if I was an IT guy and designed the next step forward in anti-material rifle, I could not patent it. Even though it has Fark all to do with computers. (correct me if I misunderstand this rule) This is garbage.

The company would have to prove that they provided you with the tools or inspiration for the invention, or that you worked on it, on company time.


Many companies have a clause in your contract of employment that anything you invent is their property. Nothing to do with tools, inspiration etc.

Not sure how they'd stand up in court, but it could be very expensive if you have to find out....
 
2012-10-07 09:32:35 PM  

Jumpthruhoops: Curses! Stupid having to remember which password to use and slowing down my post.


That's okay, I'm so late to the party the only thing I have to offer...

img6.imageshack.us


/how do you sit?
 
2012-10-07 09:36:59 PM  
aikidogamer had it right: both my uni and his company had "all your IP are belong to us" clauses in the contracts. I personally thought it would be fun to file jointly for the patent just to see Giant Company and Rich University slug it out in court over who got a bigger share.
 
2012-10-07 09:40:04 PM  
i teach students who pay $15,000-$20,000 per year in tuition to attend my university.

taping is not a problem. rather, the problem is students who take notes on their computers. Here's why: it's really obvious to me when you're on Facebook. most students will give in to checking their fantasy teams, the weather, watching TV, etc. while in lecture if they have a laptop in front of them. the same is true to a lesser extent with iPhones.

my best students come to class and take notes by hand on my handouts while paying attention because they are trying to listen for the key points and illustrations. in my experience the pleas on behalf of the students who can't listen and take notes at the same time are misplaced.
 
2012-10-07 09:42:57 PM  
Heh- I both teach at a college and take occasional classes there for fun.

When I'm on the student side, I record all of the lectures on a smartpen. I'm auditing a music theory class right now and it's possibly the greatest tool ever created- I not only have my notes but I have the audio of the professor playing.

I encourage my students to do the same when I'm on the professor side. Anything that makes you better able to learn the material I'm all for. I'm sure I sound like an idiot some of the time- oh well, hazard of the profession.
 
2012-10-07 09:45:33 PM  
The teachers should be forced to lecture naked as well, and probably be whipped in ten-minute intervals, just to drive home the point that they are there providing a service for the snowflakes who have better things to do than listen to the lecture.
 
2012-10-07 09:46:00 PM  
As a college prof., this is a pretty interesting thread. I've never been approached about recording in one of my classes. I think that it would negatively affect my teaching if I knew about it, it would make me too self conscious. I have video taped lectures for the class at my home, but often stop part of the way through and redo parts to make them as good as possible.

I write the notes on the board (either on the white board or on the document camera) while giving the lecture. I do this because I often have several international students who wouldn't be able to keep up with a verbal lecture only. I don't take attendance, but I tell students that I won't repeat my lecture in my office. If a student shows up with a lot of questions that make it seem like they haven't been to class, I'll ask them to get out their notes so that we can go over them.

I know that students keep and pass on old tests (especially the greeks), so I put the old tests and keys online as study aids, so that everyone has an equal playing field. If I've changed how I teach something, I make notes of that or remove the question from the old tests.

About IP According to the faculty handbook at my school, I own the IP that I create. This is so that after I spend the time to create a class, another faculty member won't be able to take the material that I've spent time creating to teach the class (and get paid for it). I actually had this happen when another instructor was given a course that I developed to teach as an overload class (this would normally pay an extra $6,000). She had not taught the class before and would have to invest a lot of time to develop the class (homework, materials, lectures, etc.). This put both of us in an uncomfortable position. I had offered to teach it as an overload and she was being "punished" for not meeting her publishing requirements.
 
2012-10-07 09:54:02 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Fizpez: Nem Wan: ArkAngel: Any records made without the knowledge and permission of the teacher shall become the property of the teacher.

I don't see how this is legal. Any record made is the property of the person who made it, i.e. the student. A contract between the teachers and the school can't affect the student's IP

The students aren't a party to the contract anyway.

So if I go to a concert and record the show then try to market and sell it I shouldnt have any problems?

Depends, did you pay for a ticket and did that ticket have lots of tiny writing on the back of it?


At a state college, if the document is created on state equipment, it's FOI-able.
 
2012-10-07 09:56:12 PM  
Isn't one of the basic skills that students should be acquiring and refining in college, regardless of the subject matter at hand (which is rarely the subject matter in which said students are later employed or devote much time or effort after graduation), the ability to sit through a lecture and determine what were the salient points?

I personally would rather have that ability than all of the books in the world (incidentally, all of the books of the world are readily available, in libraries!).

It would be efficacious for students to spend an hour after each lecture going over their notes from the lecture and improving upon them. This enhances the learning process far more than "having a recording and listening to it again" would. I will grant that having the recording in addition would not be harmful in and of itself, but its possession would likely prevent a student from taking notes and revising them in the first place.
 
2012-10-07 09:58:02 PM  

proteus_b: The teachers should be forced to lecture naked as well, and probably be whipped in ten-minute intervals, just to drive home the point that they are there providing a service for the snowflakes who have better things to do than listen to the lecture.


had some hysterical emails from parents of snowflakes this year, reminding me/the TA/the Dean that they were the paying customer, and that their satisfaction should take precedence.

i usually tell students/parents who drop the "paying customer" line that what they are paying for is access to my classroom, individual attention in my office hours, and most importantly an expert evaluation of the work submitted.

i'm pretty sure your doctor takes no pleasure in telling you that you're morbidly obese, and i'm sure you don't demand that he/she change his diagnosis because it hurts your feelings. i'm in pretty much the same position.
 
2012-10-07 10:03:45 PM  

I have a pocket recorder I carry everywhere, it cost me $37.76 at Wal--Mart and is good for 112 hours of sound storage.

It is called an Olympus Note-Corder DP-201, and is about the size of a pack of cigarettes.

Push the button, stick it in your pocket, who is to know?

static.bhphoto.com
 
2012-10-07 10:03:53 PM  

wildlifer: BumpInTheNight: Fizpez: Nem Wan: ArkAngel: Any records made without the knowledge and permission of the teacher shall become the property of the teacher.

I don't see how this is legal. Any record made is the property of the person who made it, i.e. the student. A contract between the teachers and the school can't affect the student's IP

The students aren't a party to the contract anyway.

So if I go to a concert and record the show then try to market and sell it I shouldnt have any problems?

Depends, did you pay for a ticket and did that ticket have lots of tiny writing on the back of it?

At a state college, if the document is created on state equipment, it's FOI-able.


and? I was merely attempting to shutdown an attempt to parallel that very valid concept with someone trying to suggest its the same as bootlegging a concert.
 
2012-10-07 10:04:40 PM  

office_despot: aikidogamer had it right: both my uni and his company had "all your IP are belong to us" clauses in the contracts. I personally thought it would be fun to file jointly for the patent just to see Giant Company and Rich University slug it out in court over who got a bigger share.


LMAO...

That would be a
/popcorn
For sure!
 
2012-10-07 10:16:19 PM  
In other news, college professors are an entitled bunch who frequently forget who's paying whom. Ric Romero brings you this exclusive hard-hitting exposé at 11!
 
2012-10-07 10:16:54 PM  

Aikidogamer: I personally thought it would be fun to file jointly for the patent just to see Giant Company and Rich University slug it out in court over who got a bigger share.


That would be the lawyers, Bob.
 
2012-10-07 10:17:52 PM  

ahasp:

I know that students keep and pass on old tests (especially the greeks), so I put the old tests and keys online as study aids, so that everyone has an equal playing field. If I've changed how I teach something, I make notes of that or remove the question from the old tests.


You mean that the greeks actually go to class? I figured that they would be too busy butt chugging booze!
 
2012-10-07 10:40:40 PM  

evaned: BolloxReader: When did you go to school? My first trip through college was in '94 and no school I visited penalized attendence as a policy. "You are old enough to make your own decisions, so while individual instructors may take attendence they won't lower your grade for missing class time" has been the mantra.

That's true of almost all classes in my experience, but there are some where class participation is a large part of the point of the class and you're required to not just be there but to participate.


tiamet4: ...a good 65% of you provide notes that are a sparse outline of what you intend to cover and we are somehow expected to scramble to write down in detail what you say off the cuff in the margins

As devil's advocate & future-professor-hopeful for a second: the complete notes are typically called "the textbook". :-)

(That said, how many times did I actually go through a textbook as a student? Not many.)


Oh you mean those things that usually profit the professor since his name is on them and are never referenced in class and written in a way that interpretation on your own is nigh-impossible?

OOOO look, a new image for the chapter intros, we can claim new editions, not buy back the old ones, and scare the students into spending thousands more, yippee!!!
 
2012-10-07 10:42:18 PM  
Most of my lectures for my degree course were recorded by the lecturers and put up for download on the university website. I thought this happened everywhere.
 
2012-10-07 10:44:17 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Somacandra: FloydA: The weird thing for me is the students who snap pictures of the slides I show, because I also post the slideshows online

I post slideshows online in Blackboard, but with no voiceover. Precisely so that students don't try to substitute them for coming to class.

What's the difference between the slideshow + voice over vs being in the class watching you talk and clicking next on the controller?


If you're watching the slide show and voice over at home and you raise your hand to ask a question, I'm not coming to your house to answer it.

No lecture can possibly include all of the information that the professor knows. If you want to actually benefit from the class, the best way to do it is to ask the prof for further information when things aren't clear, or ask me to expand upon a topic that interests you. I don't know what you already know and don't know- my lectures are based on an estimate of what I expect most students know, but I am aware that each student is different. I teach the way that worked best for me when I was a student, but I'm not you. If the way that works best for you is different from the way that works best for me, come to class and ask questions, and I'll adjust my teaching style to accommodate you. I'm good at that.

But if you sit at home and just look at the slides and listen to the audio and then complain that I didn't teach in a way that accommodates your preferred learning style, well, there isn't much I can do about it. Tell me how you learn best, and I will teach the material in a way that is most effective in helping you understand it. But if you expect me to just "guess" how you learn, well, I already did- I guessed "slides and audio." If you want more than that, I recommend coming to class and asking me for it; I'll be glad to oblige. See you there. 

(Not "you" personally, I meant the generalized "you," of course.)
 
2012-10-07 10:48:35 PM  

evaned: BolloxReader: When did you go to school? My first trip through college was in '94 and no school I visited penalized attendence as a policy. "You are old enough to make your own decisions, so while individual instructors may take attendence they won't lower your grade for missing class time" has been the mantra.

That's true of almost all classes in my experience, but there are some where class participation is a large part of the point of the class and you're required to not just be there but to participate.


tiamet4: ...a good 65% of you provide notes that are a sparse outline of what you intend to cover and we are somehow expected to scramble to write down in detail what you say off the cuff in the margins

As devil's advocate & future-professor-hopeful for a second: the complete notes are typically called "the textbook". :-)

(That said, how many times did I actually go through a textbook as a student? Not many.)


And the number of professors who tested on the textbook vs what was said in lecture...:-)

"Yes, there's an extensive 50 page textbook chapter which discusses the physiological basis for the procedure I'm about to describe. My recommended method, which is the one you'll want to refer to when you try this on your patients in a few years and which will be on the test is loosely outlined in a single 4 bullet-point slide. Now I'll verbally describe it in detail with pictures that I won't release due to my "intellectual property" rights. Get your pencils ready!..."
 
2012-10-07 10:49:22 PM  

wildlifer: At a state college, if the document is created on state equipment, it's FOI-able.


This is so false it's hilarious.

When in the U.S., I kept students' grades on state-owned computers. No, you can't see them.


One of the big differences between an academic environment and a corporate environment is that my discoveries are my discoveries, not my boss's discoveries. The hordes of IT workers on Fark might not grasp that.
 
2012-10-07 11:06:17 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I was never a fan of recording lectures. I could listen to the same thing 10x in a row and not retain nearly as much of it as I would from listening once while taking notes/outlining key points.

I suppose recording the lecture and then taking notes from the recording so that you know you didn't miss anything could be useful, but I wonder how many students take that step. I'm all for using technology to help achieve better results, but just taking a photo of the board with notes and studying from that wouldn't have been nearly as helpful to me as actually physically writing those notes down.

Then again, different peoples' brains work differently.


That's what i did during nursing school. The lectures were recorded and posted online with the Powerpoints. I'd ask my questions during lecture, and then i would listen to the lectures later on to jot down any key points i missed.

It only makes sense to have it recorded when the technology makes it so easy to record the lectures.

Doing so ensures that every type if learning style is covered.
 
2012-10-07 11:08:49 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Anything done by government employees should be viewable by the public. Exceptions: private court proceedings, national security, sealed records, top secret clearance, etc. By making lectures private, it puts them on level with national security. Students and teachers are not on that level.

If you are on a public payroll, hold yourself up to a higher standard. Don't stop recording of lectures, just because you like to say or do wacky things in class that might be illegal.


Add to your list of exceptions most anything involving medical treatment.

RminusQ: Temescal: Why don't you like it? I'm genuinely curious.

1. I have no interest in getting the Andrew Breitbart / James O'Keefe treatment.


What we need to do here is change the law so that out of context quoting can be considered libel/slander.

office_despot: In all seriousness... I know students believe that professors "are trying" to fail them. This is 99% crazy-untrue. I personally would like everyone to have an "A" at the end of the semester. So come to class, be an active listener, and take notes!


There are some. I once took a summer session 5-credit class. The teacher spent the entire first class period trying to convince us to drop as he didn't believe it could be taught in the summer session. He eventually did get me to drop because of his grading policy. At that point I had the fourth highest grade (of 120 students) in the class and yet I was one point from an F--the problem was his homework grading. Homework counted 0% for your final score except if your homework score was below 50% you failed. The homework wasn't all that hard except it was taken directly out of the book (so there was an answer key out there) and so he required us to show work--and it was much harder and more time consuming to figure out how to come up with enough work to show to make him happy. I simply didn't have enough time in the day to deal with this. (I had a long bus commute.)

Add to this that he had three TAs for the class. One was good, one was acceptable and one was awful. He divided us up into three basically equal groups but it was based on something only we knew (I forget what now, perhaps where we were sitting). Thus basically everyone who got the awful one switched to the good one, we were distributed about 90/30/0. He reassigned us based on a criteria he knew--you turn your homework in to the right TA or you get no credit. Idiot--didn't how we behaved tell you there was a problem?

Thisbymaster: I have an idea, why even have classes? Just post the recording of the lectures online, They can watch them whenever they feel like it, make it so students can take the quizes/tests anytime they feel like, bam 9 months of school shortened down to a few weeks.


You're not going to shorten the learning time all that much. Beyond that, though, I fully agree. There should be no lectures in a classroom. A VCR does a fine job of lecturing and it's an awful lot cheaper than a teacher. Use the humans for things the computer can't do--answering questions, helping students who are stuck.

ahasp: About IP According to the faculty handbook at my school, I own the IP that I create. This is so that after I spend the time to create a class, another faculty member won't be able to take the material that I've spent time creating to teach the class (and get paid for it). I actually had this happen when another instructor was given a course that I developed to teach as an overload class (this would normally pay an extra $6,000). She had not taught the class before and would have to invest a lot of time to develop the class (homework, materials, lectures, etc.). This put both of us in an uncomfortable position. I had offered to teach it as an overload and she was being "punished" for not meeting her publishing requirements.


I fully agree that you should own the IP. That doesn't make recording it wrong, though, it only makes it wrong if those recordings are then sold. I'd have no problem with you suing someone who did that.
 
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