If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(MLive.com)   Should students be allowed to tape lectures on their phones? Teacher contract forbids the practice   (mlive.com) divider line 181
    More: Interesting, University of New York, Graduate School of Journalism, lessons  
•       •       •

7500 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Oct 2012 at 5:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



181 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-10-07 06:27:15 PM  

BumpInTheNight:
For some reason I have you farkied as 'once tracked down a student's parents to tell them about their kid skipping his class'. Imagine that.


You have me what?
Should I be flattered?

No, they're all legal adults where I am. Tracking down their parents is against FERPA. Occasionally I have to turn down requests for information from their parents.
 
2012-10-07 06:27:17 PM  

office_despot: Theaetetus: office_despot: I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

If only there were some way of keeping track of who shows up to class and who doesn't, and writing off the ones who miss, say, three classes. I guess it's impossible, though.

I teach at a pretty advanced level. Taking attendance on people over 21 is ridiculous. I don't make people ask permission to go to the bathroom, either.


No, but you could make a seating chart on the first few days of class, and then just do a visual "is there someone in that seat? No, seat gets an X" scan in a few seconds.

There have been some electronic efforts to take attendance but they haven't worked so far.

Like, say, take a photograph of the room at the beginning of the class? And then if someone is doing poorly, take a look through the past photographs and determine that they never showed up?

In all seriousness... I know students believe that professors "are trying" to fail them. This is 99% crazy-untrue. I personally would like everyone to have an "A" at the end of the semester. So come to class, be an active listener, and take notes!

I agree with you - if someone doesn't show up, their lousy grade is their own fault. So why are you taking it upon yourself to make sure everyone passes? You'll recognize the kids who are doing the work but aren't getting it, because they're the ones staying after to ask you questions. If you don't recognize someone, then why put yourself out?
 
2012-10-07 06:28:22 PM  

Je5tEr: office_despot: BunkyBrewman: Bunch of bullshiat. Students have been recording professor lectures for decades.

The teachers have no reasonable expectation of privacy in a classroom.

Legally, anyone has a reasonable expectation to not be recorded if they request not to be (and they haven't agreed to it in some kind of contract previously). This is why, when you make something like a customer service call, they have to tell you if the call is being recorded. The exception to this is a warrant, of course.

I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

You know, all the time I was in school I never recorded a teacher. I took notes. With, you know, a pen. It's a skill every student should have. Especially since the act of writing it down helps you remember it.

I never recorded a teacher either, but I always got in trouble for not taking notes. I learned early on I was much better off by not taking notes than diverting my attention from the teacher to write something down and then return my focus to the lecture. I still don't take notes, and it gets me all sorts of negativity at work, even though I can quote nearly everything of importance that was said in any meeting I'm forced to suffer through.


Same here. My "notes" looks like a few well placed words on a page then handed over to John Madden to make up for clarity.
 
2012-10-07 06:28:38 PM  
I think another issue, at least at the K-12 level, is what devices students are using to take these recordings. A digital voice recorder or flip cam seems like it should be OK, but have schools eased off on the 'no phones at school' thing now? When I was in HS cell phones were a thing, but those who had them were still in a minority, and my senior year this was pretty much the height of phone technology:

upload.wikimedia.org

Today phones are pretty much computers, and I can see teachers not wanting students having them out during class as there would be a lot of temptation to be texting, playing games, etc.
 
2012-10-07 06:32:21 PM  

Aikidogamer: Je5tEr: office_despot: BunkyBrewman: Bunch of bullshiat. Students have been recording professor lectures for decades.

The teachers have no reasonable expectation of privacy in a classroom.

Legally, anyone has a reasonable expectation to not be recorded if they request not to be (and they haven't agreed to it in some kind of contract previously). This is why, when you make something like a customer service call, they have to tell you if the call is being recorded. The exception to this is a warrant, of course.

I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

You know, all the time I was in school I never recorded a teacher. I took notes. With, you know, a pen. It's a skill every student should have. Especially since the act of writing it down helps you remember it.

I never recorded a teacher either, but I always got in trouble for not taking notes. I learned early on I was much better off by not taking notes than diverting my attention from the teacher to write something down and then return my focus to the lecture. I still don't take notes, and it gets me all sorts of negativity at work, even though I can quote nearly everything of importance that was said in any meeting I'm forced to suffer through.

Same here. My "notes" looks like a few well placed words on a page then handed over to John Madden to make up for clarity.


Wow. Usually I'm completely alone when I bring up my lack of note-taking. Nice to know I'm not the only oddball out there.
 
2012-10-07 06:32:42 PM  

BunkyBrewman: Bunch of bullshiat. Students have been recording professor lectures for decades.


This.

Remember the scene in Real Genius where the students all put recorders on their desks and walked out? It's not a new idea.

My father was in Flight School in the US Army back circa 1981, every candidate there had a little microcassette recorder they used to record the lectures and review them later that night. He was always the biggest proponent of recording classes as I grew up.

When I went back to college briefly circa 2007, and had my first MP3 player, which also had a record function, and used it regularly. It was even a law professor (who was guest lecturing for the semester in the undergrad pre-law classes) that suggested we all do it if we could.

Professors getting in a huff over intellectual property rights for their in-class lectures are letting narrow-minded obsession with IP law cloud the fact that they are there to profess. You know, teach, instruct, convey knowledge. What happens if that mp3 gets out? It means knowledge is shared. Somebody might just learn something.

Yeah, nobody is paying for it, but generally you don't go to college to learn (sad but true). Most people go to college to get a piece of paper that an accreditation agency says has value. For the vast majority of people, it's about getting an accredited degree so they can be competitive in the job market, for a job that will likely not use their degree, or only make peripheral use of it and job experience will be more important than academic learning in the long run.
 
2012-10-07 06:33:22 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: office_despot: BunkyBrewman: Bunch of bullshiat. Students have been recording professor lectures for decades.

The teachers have no reasonable expectation of privacy in a classroom.

Legally, anyone has a reasonable expectation to not be recorded if they request not to be (and they haven't agreed to it in some kind of contract previously). This is why, when you make something like a customer service call, they have to tell you if the call is being recorded. The exception to this is a warrant, of course.

I am a prof. and request not to be recorded. "Why?" you ask. Because if I allowed recording, I would have one person in class making an .mp3 for the other 100 don't want to get out of bed. What happens in this case is that ~50 of those people decide to listen to 15 lectures for the first time the night before the exam, and then they fail. And then getting their grade up before the end of the semester is somehow _my_ problem.

You know, all the time I was in school I never recorded a teacher. I took notes. With, you know, a pen. It's a skill every student should have. Especially since the act of writing it down helps you remember it.

Yep and blind people need to learn how to see.

It's a useful skill every student should have.

Oh, hearing damage, tough, learn the skill. It's a useful skill to have.

Fearful, stuck in the past Teachers like you are not useful any more. Well, we do need daycare workers.


Speaking of "stuck in the past," you seem to be sadly unaware of the ADA. If a student comes in with a note for an accommodation of any disability, special arrangements are made. This is true of 100% of schools in the United States, as far as I am aware. I ask students not to record my lectures. I never said anything about whether or not I recorded them myself, and who I might distribute them to in that case.
 
2012-10-07 06:36:20 PM  
I'll just leave this here.

I'm not connected in any way with the company but these things are really damn cool and useful.
 
2012-10-07 06:37:00 PM  

Theaetetus: No, but you could make a seating chart on the first few days of class, and then just do a visual "is there someone in that seat? No, seat gets an X" scan in a few seconds.


Ugh, a seating chart for a college class? In... 7 years of undergrad & grad classes I don't think I ever hard one with a seating chart.


Theaetetus: I agree with you - if someone doesn't show up, their lousy grade is their own fault. So why are you taking it upon yourself to make sure everyone passes? You'll recognize the kids who are doing the work but aren't getting it, because they're the ones staying after to ask you questions. If you don't recognize someone, then why put yourself out?


To be fair, I suspect there could be some blowback that he'd have to deal with -- either from school administration and/or parents, not to mention students. And even if you're well-grounded saying "you skipped my class for two months, what do you expect?", it's still hard to not care. A lot of professors are doing it because they like teaching (obviously this is probably more true at a smaller school and less true at a big research institution where a lot of the professors are interested in research and teaching is a necessary evil), and I suspect it's hard to like teaching and not care.
 
2012-10-07 06:38:01 PM  

Fizpez: Nem Wan: ArkAngel: Any records made without the knowledge and permission of the teacher shall become the property of the teacher.

I don't see how this is legal. Any record made is the property of the person who made it, i.e. the student. A contract between the teachers and the school can't affect the student's IP

The students aren't a party to the contract anyway.

So if I go to a concert and record the show then try to market and sell it I shouldnt have any problems?


The students aren't selling it, they are using it for their own edification - this easily falls under fair use.

Where it would be in violation is if they started recording the lectures and then selling access to them via a private service, or simply re-selling copies without permission/licensing rights.
-yay
 
2012-10-07 06:38:29 PM  
I encourage my students to record my lectures. I also encourage them to listen to the lectures again whenever they have free time. Some of them tell me that their kids wonder who "that man" is that mommy is always listening too. After the first major test I have 15-20 recorders and cell phones lined up on my desk. It is a real help because they can take basic notes and fill in the details later. Multiple listening sessions also help with information retention. I avoid the problem of students skipping classes by giving unannounced quizzes each week. I also encourage them to take pictures of my concept maps and other "modern art masterpieces" that I draw on the board. The only thing I don't allow is video taping the lectures. I'm not ending up in a gangam style remix.
 
2012-10-07 06:39:39 PM  

office_despot: BumpInTheNight:
For some reason I have you farkied as 'once tracked down a student's parents to tell them about their kid skipping his class'. Imagine that.

You have me what?
Should I be flattered?

No, they're all legal adults where I am. Tracking down their parents is against FERPA. Occasionally I have to turn down requests for information from their parents.


Perhaps I'd marked the wrong person then, I can tell its a pretty old one because there's a colour code on it too (fark favourite tag, optional text commonly used as notes).

What I can say though is I've experienced both ends of the spectrum where a teacher will vehemently be against recording but who's lecture style is the sort where its all one-sided talking without room for questions or discussion and then the other where a teacher would record them self and post it to provide more options. I tend to agree with the 'more options' and if your leaning back on 'well they're adults they outta be self-accountable' but then turn around and suggest the only thing holding them to the class room is the inability to obtain the information from the lecture except by live attendance, I think there's a conflict of logic there.
 
2012-10-07 06:41:19 PM  

Don't Tongue the Reaper!: Can't speak for some beer drinker, but most of us consider our lectures our intellectual property. It complicates things.


Is there some reason lectures doesn't become the property of the school, just like every other bit of work product generated by employees in every other industry?
 
2012-10-07 06:41:57 PM  
Really don't mind if you sit this one out.
My words but a whisper, your deafness a SHOUT.
I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.
Your sperm's in the gutter, your love's in the sink.
So you ride yourselves over the fields
and you make all your animal deals
and your wise men don't know how it feels, to be thick, as a brick.
 
2012-10-07 06:43:26 PM  
I don't let my students record my lectures, primarily because it discourages class participation. I used to allow recording, but found that when students know that any questions they ask or comments they make will be recorded, they tend to just sit there. I'd like for my classes to be a dialogue, not a monologue, so no recording allowed.
 
2012-10-07 06:43:38 PM  

Vampirococcus rocks: I encourage my students to record my lectures. I also encourage them to listen to the lectures again whenever they have free time. Some of them tell me that their kids wonder who "that man" is that mommy is always listening too. After the first major test I have 15-20 recorders and cell phones lined up on my desk. It is a real help because they can take basic notes and fill in the details later. Multiple listening sessions also help with information retention. I avoid the problem of students skipping classes by giving unannounced quizzes each week. I also encourage them to take pictures of my concept maps and other "modern art masterpieces" that I draw on the board. The only thing I don't allow is video taping the lectures. I'm not ending up in a gangam style remix.


LOL. they used to have this thing on JibJab where one could put heads of whoever on dancing characters. This was quite popular for a while -- the students used to take photos from the school web pages, make the jibjab videos and e-mail them to me. Truly hilarious.
 
2012-10-07 06:43:38 PM  
Were the students party to the contract? No. I don't see how that rule is binding on the students.
 
2012-10-07 06:43:46 PM  

evaned: Theaetetus: No, but you could make a seating chart on the first few days of class, and then just do a visual "is there someone in that seat? No, seat gets an X" scan in a few seconds.

Ugh, a seating chart for a college class? In... 7 years of undergrad & grad classes I don't think I ever hard one with a seating chart.


Had 'em all the time in law school. It's not assigned seating, rather, you let people find their own seats during the first few classes, and you make the chart in class three or so, responsive to where everyone wants to sit. The benefit for the prof is that they can then call on students by name when they raise their hand, without needing to actually recognize them.
 
2012-10-07 06:44:29 PM  
i129.photobucket.com


Count me in as one of the people who doesn't listen to the instructor when im writing down notes. OK Teacher, here's how it works with me: I either write, or listen. I don't do both, and if I try, I do poorly at both. The newer teachers I work with in community college are pretty cool. One of the older ones, and most older ones i've had the pleasure of studying under, screw this up. Especially if they suddenly discovered Powerpoint, and feel like skipping through 15 frames in about 15 minutes. Theres no way I can write all that down, let alone actually listen to what the fark you're actually saying.

If you demand I write notes, then just so you know, bub, I am not even attempting to listen to the lecture. I am writing notes. You can and should be replaced with a pink flamingo, for all the good you are doing as a teacher. Don't be such a luddite, and let people record if they want to. If they fail, it's on them.

Also, to the person saying that a lecture is your intellectual property, i'd be inclined to agree, provided the lecture is wholly made up of materials discovered, researched, and published by you. Teaching History, Math, Art, basically anything? You're building upon the work others did, I am disinclined to agree with your thought that it's your work.

Respectfully.
 
2012-10-07 06:46:14 PM  

everlastinggobstopper: I don't let my students record my lectures, primarily because it discourages class participation. I used to allow recording, but found that when students know that any questions they ask or comments they make will be recorded, they tend to just sit there. I'd like for my classes to be a dialogue, not a monologue, so no recording allowed.


This I must admit is a strong point, as a student I really forced myself to engage in the lectures when appropriate but my shy earlier self might have been put more on edge seeing a dozen or two iphones held up 'with the recording light on' so to speak.
 
2012-10-07 06:48:19 PM  
Temescal

Why don't you like it? I'm genuinely curious.

For the same reason cops don't like to be filmed.


// lack of ethical behavior.
 
2012-10-07 06:56:15 PM  

Theaetetus: It's not assigned seating, rather, you let people find their own seats during the first few classes, and you make the chart in class three or so, responsive to where everyone wants to sit.


I'm pretty ure even that's still beyond anything I had, though I'd say that's what largely happened anyway. I suppose that there could be fields, locations, or universities where that practice is common, in which case using it makes sense I guess.
 
2012-10-07 06:57:12 PM  

OnlyM3: For the same reason cops don't like to be filmed.// lack of ethical behavior.


WTF did your teachers do to you?
 
2012-10-07 06:58:21 PM  
For f*ck sake notes are just a transcript of a lecture, albeit a transcript that is very likely not as thorough as a recording. Will students have to return their notes at the end of class to be burned to ash?

The whole "don't record my lectures, bro" thing just makes teachers and professors seem anachronistic and petty. It reminds me quite a bit of the RIAA and MPAA. The students, and I'm speaking about college kids here, are going into massive debt just to be able to be gifted with a your wisdom and expertise but...

OHHHHH...I got it. Ha, this is about not wanting to switch your class around next semester when a former students gives/sells the recordings to a current student. Lame, yet more understandable than the "intellectual property" nonsense.

Get the f*ck over yourselves.
 
2012-10-07 07:01:36 PM  
Every presentation, lecture, etc., I have given, predominantly on the topic of giftedness, I have explicitly mentioned the materials and lecture itself being available under a Creative Commons, Share-Alike, Non-Commercial license without the need for attribution. I am someone who champions the dissemination of information, freely. However, this is still my intellectual property, and whatever my whims should be followed with concern to recording. I wouldn't stop anyone from audio or video or written recording because I support fair use, but this is me. An instructor should be at least versed enough in pedagogy to realize the recordings and snapshots are beneficial for studying, but there is a concern this is replacing active learning within the classroom; the wishes of the intellectual property creator should be respected (unless I have to pay in which case torrents it is!).
 
2012-10-07 07:01:50 PM  

evaned: OnlyM3: For the same reason cops don't like to be filmed.// lack of ethical behavior.

WTF did your teachers do to you?


He's just being an asshole, pay no attention.
 
2012-10-07 07:03:38 PM  

Gyrfalcon: evaned: OnlyM3: For the same reason cops don't like to be filmed.// lack of ethical behavior.

WTF did your teachers do to you?

He's just being an asshole, pay no attention.


Yah, that twat I have ignored as 'anti-cop zealot' and surprise surprise.
 
2012-10-07 07:05:26 PM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 300x169]

/stop touching yourself


Came here for this...

/leaving satisfied!
//Your mom sews license plates in your underwear? How do you sit?
 
2012-10-07 07:06:07 PM  

OnlyM3: Temescal

Why don't you like it? I'm genuinely curious.
For the same reason cops don't like to be filmed.


// lack of ethical behavior.


No no no, the real reason is because they don't want to have to rewrite tests and answer keys that they've used for the past however many semesters; at least it's the only motivation that makes even a tiny bit of sense.
 
2012-10-07 07:08:22 PM  

Je5tEr: Don't Tongue the Reaper!: Temescal: Why don't you like it? I'm genuinely curious.

Can't speak for some beer drinker, but most of us consider our lectures our intellectual property. It complicates things.

Assuming a public school, how is your taxpayer funded lecture, based on a curriculum developed by public employees, not a work for hire?


I work at a private university, so I have no idea how that works.
 
2012-10-07 07:13:33 PM  

Owangotang: No no no, the real reason is because they don't want to have to rewrite tests and answer keys that they've used for the past however many semesters; at least it's the only motivation that makes even a tiny bit of sense.


That doesn't even make sense, except for perhaps the couple days when tests are returned or something.

I'd like to get a teaching (or maybe mostly-teaching) position at some presumably smaller college, and I don't fully understand it. The one thing that does make sense is the participation-dampening effect as FloydA and everlastinggobstopper noted, and that can be reason enough. But that's the only convincing reason I can come up with.
 
2012-10-07 07:13:42 PM  
I don't allow my college students to tape record (or any other type of voice recording) my lectures because I crack jokes and tell stories to break up a 3 hour lecture period, to snap them out of the "lecture trance", and to keep things interesting. If one were to take some of my stories/jokes out of context, there could be a misunderstanding.

I don't require my students to take notes. If you can pass my class just by listening and doing all other required work, who am I to argue? It works for you, do it.

I provide PDFs of my lecture slides so that the slow note-takers and those who can't listen and take notes at the same time can keep up. They are also there for those who miss the occasional class.

I drop students when they miss more than the allowed number of classes (two weeks worth for most classes). I do so pretty much mercilessly.

If I have a student who has some disability and one of their accommodations is that they get to tape record my lectures, then I am legally required to allow them to do so. I find that when I know I am being recorded I tone it down and the class can get kinda slow and boring. Being recorded is inhibiting to me and I'm sure to some students (they may not ask a question if they know they're being recorded).

/everyone should have the opportunity to go to college
//not everyone should go to college
///many people in college should not be there
////why do we push everyone to go to college?
 
2012-10-07 07:14:41 PM  

ArkAngel:
I don't see how this is legal. Any record made is the property of the person who made it, i.e. the student. A contract between the teachers and the school can't affect the student's IP


You really must try recording a film in a cinema and then selling the recording online. Because that would so totally be your IP.
 
2012-10-07 07:15:27 PM  

Don't Tongue the Reaper!: Je5tEr: Don't Tongue the Reaper!: Temescal: Why don't you like it? I'm genuinely curious.

Can't speak for some beer drinker, but most of us consider our lectures our intellectual property. It complicates things.

Assuming a public school, how is your taxpayer funded lecture, based on a curriculum developed by public employees, not a work for hire?

I work at a private university, so I have no idea how that works.


I used to work at a private university (not a prof tho) and I do know that while I was there the school tried to assert ownership over something that one of the facilities staff guys invented and patented/produced on his own time and with his own stuff at his own home, so you might want to make sure your contract is iron-clad as far as "your IP" is concerned. Private uni's can be real jerks.
 
2012-10-07 07:15:51 PM  

Je5tEr: how is your taxpayer funded lecture, based on a curriculum developed by public employees, not a work for hire


The lecture itself, perhaps, but not the performance of it.
 
2012-10-07 07:22:28 PM  

Owangotang: For f*ck sake notes are just a transcript of a lecture, albeit a transcript that is very likely not as thorough as a recording. Will students have to return their notes at the end of class to be burned to ash?

The whole "don't record my lectures, bro" thing just makes teachers and professors seem anachronistic and petty. It reminds me quite a bit of the RIAA and MPAA. The students, and I'm speaking about college kids here, are going into massive debt just to be able to be gifted with a your wisdom and expertise but...

OHHHHH...I got it. Ha, this is about not wanting to switch your class around next semester when a former students gives/sells the recordings to a current student. Lame, yet more understandable than the "intellectual property" nonsense.

Get the f*ck over yourselves.


I took attendance for a 101 class of my major. The professor LOVED when greeks would take his class. He got excited, happy, and then spent a couple hours making sure his tests, with the same questions as previous semesters, all had different answer layouts. I got to share in the joy when I passed out the graded tests, seeing a bro or airhead go from smug and smiling to "wtf happened I memorized all the order of the letters" was awesome.
 
2012-10-07 07:23:34 PM  

evaned: Owangotang: No no no, the real reason is because they don't want to have to rewrite tests and answer keys that they've used for the past however many semesters; at least it's the only motivation that makes even a tiny bit of sense.

That doesn't even make sense, except for perhaps the couple days when tests are returned or something.

I'd like to get a teaching (or maybe mostly-teaching) position at some presumably smaller college, and I don't fully understand it. The one thing that does make sense is the participation-dampening effect as FloydA and everlastinggobstopper noted, and that can be reason enough. But that's the only convincing reason I can come up with.


Sure it does, kids sell recordings of a teacher going over a test or instantly grading a quiz and the teacher has to switch things up.

Students will either participate or they won't. The recordings have no impact; students that participate are more engaged and are going to remain more engaged even if they are recording the class.

It's simply teachers and professors fighting back against progress, because THEY didn't use such tools to assist their learning so why should YOU be able to?
 
2012-10-07 07:25:00 PM  

Je5tEr: I never recorded a teacher either, but I always got in trouble for not taking notes. I learned early on I was much better off by not taking notes than diverting my attention from the teacher to write something down and then return my focus to the lecture. I still don't take notes, and it gets me all sorts of negativity at work, even though I can quote nearly everything of importance that was said in any meeting I'm forced to suffer through.


When I was in college, a prof once called me out publicly for not paying attention- because I was looking down at my notebook, taking notes. I told her I was paying attention, and read back part of her last section. She then decided that none of us should take notes, since we should be "engaging with her." Yes, it was a communications class, and I did do my part in discussion. But the problem is, I don't recall what I do not write. Literally, I write it, I remember it- I don't even have to read it later, the act of writing sort of engraves the information on my brain. But if I don't write it down, I lose about half of what's said.

Had to go notebook-less for the rest of that semester in that class, and I still begrudge her my C; I'd have had an A if she'd let me take notes.
 
2012-10-07 07:25:11 PM  
I am fine with a student record a teacher's lecture so long as the teacher has given the okay in writing to the student and the student also in writing agrees to not use it for profit.

I could care less if the student shares the recording with friends so long as no money changes hand for the recording.
 
2012-10-07 07:27:24 PM  

evaned: Owangotang: No no no, the real reason is because they don't want to have to rewrite tests and answer keys that they've used for the past however many semesters; at least it's the only motivation that makes even a tiny bit of sense.

That doesn't even make sense, except for perhaps the couple days when tests are returned or something.

I'd like to get a teaching (or maybe mostly-teaching) position at some presumably smaller college, and I don't fully understand it. The one thing that does make sense is the participation-dampening effect as FloydA and everlastinggobstopper noted, and that can be reason enough. But that's the only convincing reason I can come up with.


I actually saw the half-the-class failing thing happen in the first course at my institution that got into recording. And you are right, the faculty get blamed for the students not coming to class. We do actually provide notes for the classes online, so it's not the all-or-nothing thing some would like to imagine -- but that year's failure in that class was striking.

BumpInTheNight, I guess I'm flattered then. I've been a on Fark for possibly longer than FERPA's been around, and I used to teach younger students. So it may be that you made a note about something I've completely forgotten!

I agree with you about the logical disconnect. As is often the case when a prof. looks like he or she is doing something weird, there are some discrepancies between school policy and practical reality, which I navigate the best I can.

Je5tEr, I used to work at a private university that had the same rule you describe about ownership of things one did at home. Some companies also have this. My bf and I designed a new bike rack (of all things) and briefly considered trying to patent it before we realized we were both screwed in this exact way.
 
2012-10-07 07:27:29 PM  
Allowing the students to record the lecture? Can't have that!

alum.mit.edu

Link to video
=Smidge=
 
2012-10-07 07:27:43 PM  
Live Scribe Pulse Pen

Good for meetings in the real world too!
 
2012-10-07 07:38:28 PM  
When I was in 12th grade, I had a paranoid teacher who thought that a student was audio recording her. I don't know why she thought that, but she freaked out. He had something on his desk she thought was recording. I can't remember what it was, but it wasn't a recorder. Also had another one in middle school who let it be known that she could not be photographed (something about her religion and the camera stealing her soul), which led to a student chasing her around the classroom with a camera. I felt sorry for her, anyhow . . .

The way I think about it is that the mind is recording all the time. Audio or video recorders just do a better job of it. Recording something that you're already privy to is different from say leaving an audio recorder in a place you're not supposed to be (a la George Costanza leaving the briefcase with a running audio recorder inside).

So my policy is: if you could hear it naturally, it's up for grabs. I think that's generally the rule for phone conversations in most states (1-party recording laws).

But times have definitely changed. When I was in school you would get suspended just for having a cell phone, even if you kept it in your locker. They associated it with drug deals for some reason.
 
2012-10-07 07:39:08 PM  

Je5tEr: Wow. Usually I'm completely alone when I bring up my lack of note-taking. Nice to know I'm not the only oddball out there.


I do not take notes. My professors in earlier years once chided me for this, but from junior year on all of my instructors and classmates have recognized I pay attention far better without. Important dates for conferences and such, I obviously wrote down, but otherwise I had the same composition journal through two years which was rarely opened and nothing else.
 
2012-10-07 07:41:39 PM  

Smidge204: Allowing the students to record the lecture? Can't have that!

[alum.mit.edu image 300x283]

Link to video
=Smidge=


Have started trying to utilize Khan Academy, for gifted students in particular, in my school due to the self-paced lectures and assessment. We need to make a transition to this format as much as is possible; the sheer amount I have learned or been able to review via the site is amazing, and the mathematics map is fantastic.
 
2012-10-07 07:44:18 PM  

RminusQ: Temescal: Why don't you like it? I'm genuinely curious.

1. I have no interest in getting the Andrew Breitbart / James O'Keefe treatment.
2. Do wiretapping laws come into play? Is Michigan a two-party-consent state?
3. Similar to #2, I've been told if I intend to make a recording of my classroom, I should get written permission from all students' parents. If students wish to make a recording of me, they should get my permission.

Notice this isn't saying it's forbidden. Taping without knowledge and consent is what's forbidden.


Imagine a teacher reading aloud from Mark Twain, including the as-written repeated references to the "N****r Jim" character. Imagine a student putting together a video compilation, recorded on his iPhone, of that teacher repeatedly saying "N****g N****r N****r N****r" and posting it to YouTube.
 
2012-10-07 07:48:18 PM  

propasaurus:

Imagine a teacher reading aloud from Mark Twain, including the as-written repeated references to the "N****r Jim" character. Imagine a student putting together a video compilation, recorded on his iPhone, of that teacher repeatedly saying "N****g N****r N****r N****r" and posting it to YouTube.



hahahaha I just had a vision of one of the Wilford Brimley diabeetus videos gone so very wrong.
 
2012-10-07 07:48:29 PM  

kriegfusion: Count me in as one of the people who doesn't listen to the instructor when im writing down notes. OK Teacher, here's how it works with me: I either write, or listen. I don't do both, and if I try, I do poorly at both. The newer teachers I work with in community college are pretty cool. One of the older ones, and most older ones i've had the pleasure of studying under, screw this up. Especially if they suddenly discovered Powerpoint, and feel like skipping through 15 frames in about 15 minutes. Theres no way I can write all that down, let alone actually listen to what the fark you're actually saying.

If you demand I write notes, then just so you know, bub, I am not even attempting to listen to the lecture. I am writing notes. You can and should be replaced with a pink flamingo, for all the good you are doing as a teacher. Don't be such a luddite, and let people record if they want to. If they fail, it's on them.


The whiz-bang pace of those community college lectures really does get to some people...
Perhaps one of the skills you would learn (if you'd drop the confrontational attitude) is how to process information in real time. You might figure out how to discern what is worth writing down, and what isn't, and then you would have time to both listen and annotate the lectures. It would probably make you better at learning in general, in whichever field you might apply yourself...
 
2012-10-07 07:48:50 PM  

Don't Tongue the Reaper!: Temescal: Why don't you like it? I'm genuinely curious.

Can't speak for some beer drinker, but most of us consider our lectures our intellectual property. It complicates things.


I call BS on this. Sure it is your IP, but just having a student record your lecture does not violate IP laws. What they do with that recording can violate IP laws, for example, if that student then tried to sell that lecture as an MP3 file on some website.

And that is a different issue, that if you were actually teaching students you could use to explain how IP laws work and how they protect content creators. Rather than hiding behind some faux argument and then try to justify it by saying 'it complicates things'.
 
2012-10-07 08:03:32 PM  

Owangotang: Sure it does, kids sell recordings of a teacher going over a test or instantly grading a quiz and the teacher has to switch things up.


But how often does that happen? In college at least, exams usually happen once or twice a semester (not counting finals which doesn't have any classes after it); and even quizzes are rarely that often. Why not just prohibit recording those? And that's even granting that argument too much credit... if the tests are out there, you've already lost. (Though I guess some profs even will collect the exams back, which is pretty much BS but that's how things go.)

Students will either participate or they won't. The recordings have no impact; students that participate are more engaged and are going to remain more engaged even if they are recording the class.

We have two teachers who have stated evidence in contradiction to your assumption, and one person who has said that it seems natural. I make the latter count two. There are a variety of reasons that people could be uneasy with being recorded, and it is not even remotely hard for me to believe that there are people who would be less inclined to participate.

swingerofbirches: The way I think about it is that the mind is recording all the time. Audio or video recorders just do a better job of it.


Audio and video recording also provide hard evidence of what went on to third parties, which your memories do not at all. There is a big difference between the two worlds, and it's not just a matter of fidelity.
 
Displayed 50 of 181 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report