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(The New York Times)   California requires their own special seasonal blends of gas that aren't the same as what the rest of the country uses, then complains about how high their gas prices are. Oh, and it doesn't help when the local refineries crap out   ( nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Southern California, gas prices, high taxes, refineries, valero, gasoline, Valero Energy  
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7477 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Oct 2012 at 2:43 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



192 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-10-07 01:35:54 PM  
this story gets printed twice a year.
WHY is this not the most boring REPEAT of all time???
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-07 01:58:31 PM  
Lots of places have oxygenated gas during part of the year.
 
2012-10-07 02:09:19 PM  
Well excuse us for breathing
 
2012-10-07 02:46:02 PM  
The rest of the country is just mad they're:

1)In a drought
2)Facing hurricanes
3)Facing tornadoes
4)Detroit

I'll just drive less.

/difficulty: I live 15 minutes from my Uni campus
//2 hours from Sacramento
 
2012-10-07 02:46:32 PM  
I paid $4.75 gallon for 87 octane yesterday.
 
2012-10-07 02:46:56 PM  
This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.
 
2012-10-07 02:47:29 PM  
The reason that it is galling right now is that gas is up 75 cents since Monday.
 
2012-10-07 02:49:13 PM  
Yep, we're paying for the ability to see more than half a mile and not breathe in carbon particles all day, and it's worth the price. (That is, it's worth the price differential relative to other states.)
 
2012-10-07 02:49:18 PM  
Or we can be pragmatic and just switch to the winter blend a couple weeks sooner. I doubt that'll break the environment.
 
2012-10-07 02:49:54 PM  

L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.


WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
 
2012-10-07 02:50:37 PM  

APE992: The rest of the country is just mad they're:

1)In a drought
2)Facing hurricanes
3)Facing tornadoes
4)Detroit

I'll just drive less.

/difficulty: I live 15 minutes from my Uni campus
//2 hours from Sacramento


No no, no and no.

Glad I don't live out there, nice to visit but wouldn't want to live there, prices are too high and outside if San Fran doesn't have much to offer in arts.

I would move to Europe first.
 
2012-10-07 02:50:47 PM  
This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.
 
2012-10-07 02:52:31 PM  
At the risk of sounding like a no-good, tree-hugging, liberal communist socialist, I can kinda see why California wants to go with electric cars. It's constant and consistent irregardless of the other energy sources used to generate it.
 
2012-10-07 02:52:38 PM  
omgsmog!
img.timeinc.net
 
2012-10-07 02:52:57 PM  

L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.


Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.
 
2012-10-07 02:54:26 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.


Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.
 
2012-10-07 02:54:36 PM  
Surprisingly, when you have the 9th largest economy in the world, you can affect production and distribution.
 
2012-10-07 02:56:01 PM  

steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.

Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.


Stop thinking and start citing.
 
2012-10-07 02:56:45 PM  
Also, for the most part, the Californians complaining about gas prices are not the same ones who demand gas blends that help control smog. Rather, the gas price complainers are more likely to be the ones saying "Smog schmog, I want my cheap gas!" Or put another way, Orange County.
 
2012-10-07 02:58:13 PM  
As a reminder to all Californians considering a move to the north: Oregon is terrible and rains all the time.
 
2012-10-07 02:58:31 PM  
Why can't we simply have one formula across the country and standardize on it? Get the EPA to approve a formula of blah and leave it at that. This kind of thing is entirely the kind of self wrought insanity that needs to end.
 
2012-10-07 03:00:57 PM  
Oh, and it doesn't help when the local refineries crap out

... purely coincidentally just before the election.
 
2012-10-07 03:01:30 PM  

steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.

Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.


Even if it did have something to do with car emissions (debatable), the smog reduction would have to be attributed to stricter emissions testing, and not gasoline regulations. I struggle every two years to pass, because my car is so old, it was never designed to meet the ridiculous smog figures CA demands.
 
2012-10-07 03:02:55 PM  
All Obama's fault.
 
2012-10-07 03:05:19 PM  
The price increases(beatings) will continue until morale(your crappy Partisan Attitude) improves.

/just a l'il message sent out to you drivers w/ opinions in CA
 
2012-10-07 03:05:38 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: As a reminder to all Californians considering a move to the north: Oregon is terrible and rains all the time.


too late, moved to Astoria 8 weeks ago.

/Dryest summer on record.
 
2012-10-07 03:05:54 PM  
Just another reason to get one of these...

imageshack.us
 
2012-10-07 03:06:44 PM  

onyxruby: Why can't we simply have one formula across the country and standardize on it? Get the EPA to approve a formula of blah and leave it at that. This kind of thing is entirely the kind of self wrought insanity that needs to end.


Cause down here in the South, we ain't lettin a bunch of West Coast Lieberals dictate how we can or can't polute our air.

/Freedom!
 
2012-10-07 03:06:49 PM  

Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.


I dunno if it's news... I just like saying it.

/California sucks.
 
2012-10-07 03:08:39 PM  
It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

This is what happens when oil companies yield to the will of the EPA. They see that the price of oil will go up as a consequence of the refinery closing.

Oil is at $89 per barrel; that's less than $2 a gallon. Add in taxes; processing and shipping and a gallon of gas costs anywhere from $2.50 - $2.90 to produce. In some cases; we pay $5 a gallon. Some of that is oil futures; but what is the rest? Pure profit.

/ I know there are other factors; but, most of the remainer is profiteering
 
2012-10-07 03:08:59 PM  
an it also doesn't help that it's an election year, and republicans own alot of the oil companies.
 
2012-10-07 03:09:24 PM  

onyxruby: Why can't we simply have one formula across the country and standardize on it? Get the EPA to approve a formula of blah and leave it at that. This kind of thing is entirely the kind of self wrought insanity that needs to end.


People in flyover country don't need the expensive blends that urban areas need because of the amount of vehicle traffic.
 
2012-10-07 03:09:51 PM  
Start burning treehuggers at the stake. Problem solved.
 
2012-10-07 03:11:02 PM  
But unemployment went down so we're good right?
 
2012-10-07 03:12:04 PM  

Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.


What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?
 
2012-10-07 03:12:22 PM  

GodsTumor: Just another reason to get one of these...

[imageshack.us image 276x183]


Yes it is.
Big Coal loves you long time.

/ownership is much less sociopathic
 
2012-10-07 03:12:37 PM  

iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.


Capacity is just fine. The problem is the industry has consolidated and exanded (think Mom and Pop to Wal Mart) which means when there is a problem, it affects a much bigger chunk than it used to.

energyanswered.org
 
2012-10-07 03:12:43 PM  

steamingpile: Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.


Stop huffing expensive gasoline, dude, you'll make more farking sense.
 
2012-10-07 03:12:53 PM  

redlegrick: At the risk of sounding like a no-good, tree-hugging, liberal communist socialist, I can kinda see why California wants to go with electric cars. It's constant and consistent irregardless of the other energy sources used to generate it.


Except for when they hit rollIng brown and black outs. Just wait until the price of electricity jumps up as usage goes up. Like any other fuel, it's price can change.
 
2012-10-07 03:12:54 PM  

steamingpile: APE992: The rest of the country is just mad they're:

1)In a drought
2)Facing hurricanes
3)Facing tornadoes
4)Detroit

I'll just drive less.

/difficulty: I live 15 minutes from my Uni campus
//2 hours from Sacramento

No no, no and no.

Glad I don't live out there, nice to visit but wouldn't want to live there, prices are too high and outside if San Fran doesn't have much to offer in arts.

I would move to Europe first.


Denial.
 
2012-10-07 03:13:46 PM  

wantingout: an it also doesn't help that it's an election year, and republicans own alot of the oil companies.


Are you saying they need a quick cash infusion to pay for their fantasy?
That's tin foil talk.
 
2012-10-07 03:14:09 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: I struggle every two years to pass, because my car is so old


Minnesota dropped its emmission testing some years ago because the fails were almost entirely by the poor and their badly tuned shiat-piles.

Before ending the program, a waiver system was developed to help these folks, until nearly all the results were either a pass or a waiver, so what's the farking point? 

Most of the old testing stations were sold off and turned into quick-lube joints.
 
2012-10-07 03:14:38 PM  

Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.


Yeah, well our (FL) Gov. was involved and profited in largest health care fraud case in US history and the rednecks here elected him anyway.
Plus we don't have medical weed to forget how farked up things our here!
 
2012-10-07 03:14:59 PM  
I'm trying to separate my income from location so I can take the advice of Tom Waits, which is to spend some time in New York, but leave before it makes you hard, and some time in LA, but leave before it makes you soft.
 
2012-10-07 03:15:25 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.

Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.

Even if it did have something to do with car emissions (debatable), the smog reduction would have to be attributed to stricter emissions testing, and not gasoline regulations. I struggle every two years to pass, because my car is so old, it was never designed to meet the ridiculous smog figures CA demands.


They run in parallel. Smog comes from unburned hydrocarbons coming from older cars and higher volatility gasoline that has to be avoided in warm weather. Oxidized gasoline also reduces unburned HC. California's blends are some of the most aggressive because of the issues peculiar to their region.
 
2012-10-07 03:16:31 PM  

steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.

Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.


OR(Get this...), it could be BOTH! Yep, car emission requirements sure could have contributed to less smog along with cleaner factories. I know it doesn't fit anybody's Farkgenda™ to have both answers be right, but I can guarantee you that while cleaner factories have helped contribute to less smog, there is no way that you can convince me that having cars burn less fuel, thereby putting less pollutants in the atmosphere isn't helping as well.
 
2012-10-07 03:17:19 PM  
Yes, it sucks. Everyone please move somewhere else. I keep hearing lots of jobs in Ohio.
 
2012-10-07 03:17:20 PM  
Given that the vast majority of cars on the road are fuel injected (nearly all are port injected no less) with all the requisite computer control over fueling, why do we need oxygenated fuel at all?

Any car with an oxygen sensor whose feedback is used to control the fueling process adjusts for oxygen density differences continuously. The only thing that oxygenated fuel does for fuel injected cars is cause the computer to increase injector duty cycle (more fuel) to compensate. Some cars have the added benefit of losing top end power because of injectors that are near the edge of their limits with non-oxygenated fuel and simply can't flow more fuel to make up for the extra oxygen.

Maybe someone else can explain how oxygenated fuel makes any emissions difference in any computer controlled fuel system that uses O2 sensor(s) for feedback (probably ~80+% of the cars on the road today).
 
2012-10-07 03:17:29 PM  

Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?


Linda Rondstat
 
2012-10-07 03:17:42 PM  
Really, peeps.
Last week saw the greatest orgy of campaign cashification in history.
Untill next time, which, BTW starts in a month.

Since the Bankers hid all of theirs, where do you think it comes from?
 
2012-10-07 03:18:55 PM  

Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?


Ahhhh, yes, Prop 13, allowing Warren Buffet to only pay $300/yr in property taxes for his mansion in Laguna Beach while the state goes broke. 

www.instablogsimages.com
 
2012-10-07 03:19:03 PM  

TomD9938: Minnesota dropped its emmission testing some years ago because the fails were almost entirely by the poor and their badly tuned shiat-piles.


Which is my biggest problem with vehicle emissions programs. Apparently being poor means you get to pollute. It's like letting people get waivers to burn their trash in their front yard because garbage service costs too much.
 
2012-10-07 03:19:38 PM  

Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?


He has a really stupid looking official portrait.

/California sucks.
 
2012-10-07 03:19:43 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: onyxruby: Why can't we simply have one formula across the country and standardize on it? Get the EPA to approve a formula of blah and leave it at that. This kind of thing is entirely the kind of self wrought insanity that needs to end.

People in flyover country don't need the expensive blends that urban areas need because of the amount of vehicle traffic.



onyxruby has a point though, in that it probably wouldn't be as expensive of a blend if it was the only one they made for the US. Now, whether or not that new price was lower than the average paid now for the different blends is a different matter...
 
2012-10-07 03:20:14 PM  
Why does California have a so called "Winter blend gasoline"? There's no winter here in California.
 
2012-10-07 03:23:56 PM  
Meh. It costs me just about $100 to fill each of my (2) cars, and the same is true for both of my wife's cars. To be honest, I don't really notice a fluctuation. Whether it costs $89 one day or $120 another day, it's pretty much the same. I think gas prices would have to get up to about $15 or $20 a gallon if I was really going to notice.
 
2012-10-07 03:24:20 PM  

Seacop: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: As a reminder to all Californians considering a move to the north: Oregon is terrible and rains all the time.

too late, moved to Astoria 8 weeks ago.

/Dryest summer on record.


That's fine, the coast is ok. Portland though, just terrible. No one should ever move here.

/3% rental vacancy in downtown, very annoying
 
2012-10-07 03:24:21 PM  
Arizona (Maricopa county, at lest) does the same thing.
 
2012-10-07 03:25:04 PM  

pedrop357: TomD9938: Minnesota dropped its emmission testing some years ago because the fails were almost entirely by the poor and their badly tuned shiat-piles.

Which is my biggest problem with vehicle emissions programs. Apparently being poor means you get to pollute. It's like letting people get waivers to burn their trash in their front yard because garbage service costs too much.


Yeah, nice idea, but unintended consequences and all that.
 
2012-10-07 03:25:40 PM  
I drive a Chevy Volt and I'm getting a kick out of these comments.
$32 was TOTAL fuel cost for the MONTH and I drove 1700 miles.

250 MPG Baby!!!
 
2012-10-07 03:27:13 PM  
Because California is the ONLY state that expects special treatment for their regional foolishness? Please. What do you think the Senate does?
 
2012-10-07 03:28:03 PM  

iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.


Plenty of existing refineries have been expanded since they were built, though. There's no reason to go through the whole rigmarole of environmental impact studies on a new site when there's plenty of room to expand on the existing site.

"Capacity has also been added to existing refineries through upgrades or new construction. The most recent examples include:

* In 1998, Orion Refinery massively upgraded and reopened a refinery in Norco, Louisiana, which was a small, simple refinery that originally opened in 1967. (It is now owned by Valero.)
* Valero opened a "new" and very sophisticated refinery in 1983 in Corpus Christi, Texas, on the site of a simple refinery that originally opened in 1975."

Source
 
2012-10-07 03:28:56 PM  

xl5150: Meh. It costs me just about $100 to fill each of my (2) cars, and the same is true for both of my wife's cars. To be honest, I don't really notice a fluctuation. Whether it costs $89 one day or $120 another day, it's pretty much the same. I think gas prices would have to get up to about $15 or $20 a gallon if I was really going to notice.


You don't know how the other half lives.

I'm in the gas station convenience store from time to time because the big stores don't sell Mountain Dew Throwback, and you'd be surprised how many people are getting gas. One guy the other day used a roll of nickels and a few high value coins to get 5 bucks of gas. My experience is that those going inside (as opposed to pay at the pump) are more likely to be getting 20 bucks or less than 50 bucks or more.
 
2012-10-07 03:31:38 PM  

Seacop: Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?

Linda Rondstat


i847.photobucket.com

Well done. 

/I'll overlook the spelling error
 
2012-10-07 03:33:49 PM  

12349876: iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

Capacity is just fine. The problem is the industry has consolidated and exanded (think Mom and Pop to Wal Mart) which means when there is a problem, it affects a much bigger chunk than it used to.


I agree; production has gone up. But; demand has skyrocketed as well. An increase in the number of refineries would increase production; and hopefully decrease the price of gas.

California has been slowly depriving itself of refineries and production capacity. They went from 21 refineries in 2007 with none idle to 18 refineries in 2012 with 2 idle; and from 2,037,188 barrels per day in 2007 to 1,955,971 barrels per day in 2012.

That's 81 thousand barrels a day or 4 million gallons a day less.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_c ap1_dcu_sca_a.htm
 
2012-10-07 03:34:55 PM  
I live and work in San Francisco and the Mrs. works across the Bay. Public transit gets us where we need to go. We do have cars but haven't filled up in over a week. I am glad I made a deposit for a Tesla SUV.
 
2012-10-07 03:34:58 PM  

L.D. Ablo: As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

I remember those days well. We had to play (without running, so we didn't die of teh azmuh) inside. I'm in NorCal now, so I have to put up with tree pollen and the dreaded cottonwood instead.

steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.


My Mother retired from the Air Resources Board. The only job in the US she ever had. Every time they'd manage to give new recommendations to either factories or for car emissions, she'd get death threats as people who were against improving air quality would start handing out the phone numbers for everyone at ARB. It was a combination of factors causing smog and no one wanted to fix it, not the car manufacturers, the drivers of those cars or the factory owners/managers. If the levees are crumbling, you don't patch just one section, you have to do your best to fix everything. Same with air quality and SoCal's smog (which has improved dramatically - I was down there just 4 or 5 months ago and was delighted with the results.)

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: As a reminder to all Californians considering a move to the north: Oregon is terrible and rains all the time.


You left out the freaky, kid-killing religious extremists known as Oregon City Followers of Christ Church and the occasional former member who will speak out about weird teachings and fatal shenanigans. The relative tolerance of fatal child neglect for "religious freedom" is one of the scariest things about Oregon IMO. I'll stay in Overpriced stuff but year round growing season, no tolerance for "faith healing" that kills others and lovely weather land, thanks.
 
2012-10-07 03:35:27 PM  

pedrop357: Given that the vast majority of cars on the road are fuel injected (nearly all are port injected no less) with all the requisite computer control over fueling, why do we need oxygenated fuel at all?

Any car with an oxygen sensor whose feedback is used to control the fueling process adjusts for oxygen density differences continuously. The only thing that oxygenated fuel does for fuel injected cars is cause the computer to increase injector duty cycle (more fuel) to compensate. Some cars have the added benefit of losing top end power because of injectors that are near the edge of their limits with non-oxygenated fuel and simply can't flow more fuel to make up for the extra oxygen.

Maybe someone else can explain how oxygenated fuel makes any emissions difference in any computer controlled fuel system that uses O2 sensor(s) for feedback (probably ~80+% of the cars on the road today).


Or you could look it up. Wouldn't it be crazy if you were connected to a computer network where this kind of information was available at your fingertips?

Try searching under "oxygenated fuel"
 
2012-10-07 03:39:06 PM  

Mithiwithi: iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

Plenty of existing refineries have been expanded since they were built, though. There's no reason to go through the whole rigmarole of environmental impact studies on a new site when there's plenty of room to expand on the existing site.

"Capacity has also been added to existing refineries through upgrades or new construction. The most recent examples include:

* In 1998, Orion Refinery massively upgraded and reopened a refinery in Norco, Louisiana, which was a small, simple refinery that originally opened in 1967. (It is now owned by Valero.)
* Valero opened a "new" and very sophisticated refinery in 1983 in Corpus Christi, Texas, on the site of a simple refinery that originally opened in 1975."

Source


I agree; existing refineries can and should be expanded. There are also plenty of sites that used to have a refinery that could be used. The problem is; the EPA doesn't like refineries. Even expanding existing operations or reopening an old refinery is an onerous process that might need an act of congress to actually take affect.
 
2012-10-07 03:39:56 PM  

snocone: GodsTumor: Just another reason to get one of these...

[imageshack.us image 276x183]

Yes it is.
Big Coal loves you long time.

/ownership is much less sociopathic


So much this ^. I still don't get how people think electric cars are the answer. Where the f#$* do you think electricity comes from ? Oh yeah that's right Californians don't care because they won't allow new power generation facilities to be built in their state but will import the hell out of PNW hydropower and drive up our prices.
 
2012-10-07 03:42:41 PM  
Call me snooty, but I always love the time of year when I switch over to Pumpkin Spiced Unleaded.
 
2012-10-07 03:43:17 PM  
12349876: You don't know how the other half lives.

Sure I do. The summer after 11th grade my dad made me get a job for the entire summer to show me what it's like to have to work for a living. I had to spend 3 days a week working for $11 an hour (this was the mid 90s, so it was minimum wage back then). It taught me a valuable lesson about the working man, so I resent the remark that I don't know how the other half lives.

12349876: I'm in the gas station convenience store from time to time because the big stores don't sell Mountain Dew Throwback, and you'd be surprised how many people are getting gas. One guy the other day used a roll of nickels and a few high value coins to get 5 bucks of gas

Then it's on them to work and make themselves marketable so that they can demand more for their services. I don't feel bad for anyone who sits around moaning about their situation and doesn't do anything to improve it.
 
2012-10-07 03:44:22 PM  
stiletto_the_wise: steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.

Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.

Even if it did have something to do with car emissions (debatable), the smog reduction would have to be attributed to stricter emissions testing, and not gasoline regulations. I struggle every two years to pass, because my car is so old, it was never designed to meet the ridiculous smog figures CA demands.


You do know that the standards differ by model, your car only has to meet the standards that were existing at the time it was built? Last time I got my old (22yrs) car smogged, it failed one of the standards by .01 (allowable was .10, mine was .11). The tech said it was probably a bad cat. When I pulled off the old one, it was empty inside, all of the the catalyst had blown out along with the gridwork that held it in. New cat installed, passed with flying colors. If you're struggling to pass, your car probably has some issues.
 
2012-10-07 03:45:27 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Or you could look it up. Wouldn't it be crazy if you were connected to a computer network where this kind of information was available at your fingertips?

Try searching under "oxygenated fuel"


Prick.

I understand quite clearly what oxygenated fuel IS (the majority of searches only explain what it is.). Very few explain beyond some vaguery about reducing CO emissions and most revolve around carburetors.

My attempt to ask here was to a.)See if any of the farkers here had some insight. and b.)spurn a discussion about the merits of oxygenated gas in modern engines.
 
2012-10-07 03:46:31 PM  

xl5150: $11 an hour (this was the mid 90s, so it was minimum wage back then)


You can't be serious, can you?

The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm
 
2012-10-07 03:50:05 PM  
When CARB boots Hein Tran out for good and maybe show some remorse for keeping a fraud liar on the payroll, I will gleefully pay more for gas. Until that day, anything that CARB has a a hand in I will oppose for no other reason than to oppose CARB.

-Hein Tran Lied about a phd from U.C. Davis, and Mary NIchols covered it up. They slapped him on the wrist and he is still employed by CARB. I am sure there are actual scientists with phds that they could find to replace him. Any fraud in government makes the rest look bad. They should ferret out fraud and destroy the lives and careers of these turd bags.
 
2012-10-07 03:51:01 PM  
12349876: The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009.

Meh. There's not much you can do with $11 that you can't do with $7.25.
 
2012-10-07 03:52:54 PM  
I just bought one of these:

images.dealerrevs.com

$150 doesn't even fill it up and it gets about 13mpg.

Love it.
 
2012-10-07 03:53:24 PM  

xl5150: 12349876: The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009.

Meh. There's not much you can do with $11 that you can't do with $7.25.


7.25 * 40 hours * 50 weeks = 14,500

11 *40 *50 = 22,000

7,500 a year makes a huge difference.
 
2012-10-07 03:53:50 PM  
Actually, the entire country uses the same blends. There's a summer blend and a winter blend. The problem is while the rest of the country switches to the winter blend at the beginning of October, California waits another month to make the switch. This produces a gas shortage every damn year along with the subsequent price hike.
 
2012-10-07 03:54:50 PM  
12349876: 7,500 a year makes a huge difference.

Not really. Especially on a week-to-week basis.
 
2012-10-07 03:58:17 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: onyxruby: Why can't we simply have one formula across the country and standardize on it? Get the EPA to approve a formula of blah and leave it at that. This kind of thing is entirely the kind of self wrought insanity that needs to end.

People in flyover country don't need the expensive blends that urban areas need because of the amount of vehicle traffic.


Want to know an ugly secret? Nobody needs those blends anymore.

Oxygenated fuel blends made a big difference back in the days of carberetors, but since 99% of gasoline vehicles are feedback fuel injection the oxygenated fuel doesn't make a difference.
 
2012-10-07 03:58:57 PM  

iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

This is what happens when oil companies yield to the will of the EPA. They see that the price of oil will go up as a consequence of the refinery closing.

Oil is at $89 per barrel; that's less than $2 a gallon. Add in taxes; processing and shipping and a gallon of gas costs anywhere from $2.50 - $2.90 to produce. In some cases; we pay $5 a gallon. Some of that is oil futures; but what is the rest? Pure profit.

/ I know there are other factors; but, most of the remainer is profiteering


Just to help you out on a few points:

Oil is measured by 42 gallon barrels. If you're curious why Wikipedia gives a good history.

Gasoline yield per barrel is 19.9 gallons. Lots of other things are made with the rest including diesel, asphalt, roofing, bunk fuel, etc.

Not all oil is 89 per barrel. That is NYMEX West Texas intermediate crude. Sour, aka high sulphur, oil sells for up to $15 less. Also the price of oil is immediately affected by the strength of the currency used to purchase it, in our case the dollar.

Hope this info helps.
 
2012-10-07 04:00:42 PM  

xl5150: 12349876: 7,500 a year makes a huge difference.

Not really. Especially on a week-to-week basis.


On a weekly basis it's 290 vs. 440. That's a 50% difference. Think of how your life would be changed with a 50% pay raise. All of our lives would be changed drastically. Even Mitt Romney's.
 
2012-10-07 04:02:25 PM  
Why was this the last line in TFA? Should have been first.

"Her firing came just before she was to get tenure."

Pretty goddamn obvious why she got canned. Also pretty obvious some heads will roll and she'll win that lawsuit.
 
2012-10-07 04:03:16 PM  

Cyclometh: Why was this the last line in TFA? Should have been first.

"Her firing came just before she was to get tenure."

Pretty goddamn obvious why she got canned. Also pretty obvious some heads will roll and she'll win that lawsuit.


OK, so I've done another Fark first. Been here five years and never did the "Post on the wrong thread" thing. I feel all special.

Carry on.
 
2012-10-07 04:03:41 PM  

Cyclometh: Why was this the last line in TFA? Should have been first.

"Her firing came just before she was to get tenure."

Pretty goddamn obvious why she got canned. Also pretty obvious some heads will roll and she'll win that lawsuit.


This.
 
2012-10-07 04:05:11 PM  
12349876: On a weekly basis it's 290 vs. 440. That's a 50% difference. Think of how your life would be changed with a 50% pay raise. All of our lives would be changed drastically. Even Mitt Romney's.

My point is that there's not much difference between a pittance and a slightly larger pittance. An extra $150 a week? What can you really do with that? And that comes out to $7500 a year, which is less than I spent on our last weekend trip to Santa Barbara.

You're right, it is more. But my point, which is that it's not a significant amount of money, is also right. I mean, I could offer you a penny and then DOUBLE the offer. Wow! A 100% improvement! Would you be so excited about that too?
 
2012-10-07 04:05:33 PM  
I used to drive a 2001 Honda Insight. There was someone on the forums complaining that they tried to do a sensor based smog test in Massachusettes and it failed because it didn't put out enough emissions. The sensor registered at 0 unless the engine was going more than 3000 rpm.

Apparently if you don't register high enough they think you are pumping air in your exhaust.
 
2012-10-07 04:07:37 PM  

onyxruby: Why can't we simply have one formula across the country and standardize on it? Get the EPA to approve a formula of blah and leave it at that. This kind of thing is entirely the kind of self wrought insanity that needs to end.


I think it has something to do with our multiple climates and hilly areas
 
2012-10-07 04:08:08 PM  

xl5150: 12349876: On a weekly basis it's 290 vs. 440. That's a 50% difference. Think of how your life would be changed with a 50% pay raise. All of our lives would be changed drastically. Even Mitt Romney's.

My point is that there's not much difference between a pittance and a slightly larger pittance. An extra $150 a week? What can you really do with that? And that comes out to $7500 a year, which is less than I spent on our last weekend trip to Santa Barbara.

You're right, it is more. But my point, which is that it's not a significant amount of money, is also right. I mean, I could offer you a penny and then DOUBLE the offer. Wow! A 100% improvement! Would you be so excited about that too?


Yes. Let's take that money per month. 1160 vs. 1760. Let's assume you're spending 1/3 your income on rent. So that's 385 and 585. I live in a pretty low cost of living area, and even there at 385 you're going to need a roommate/workingspouse or live in the ghetto. At 585, you can live by yourself in a decent safe area. HUGE DIFFERENCE
 
2012-10-07 04:08:35 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.


Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of how awesome we are.
 
2012-10-07 04:09:22 PM  

Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.


Um were you even alive back then? Brown was far more fiscally conservative than Reagan. California never fully recovered from Wilson's deregulation fiasco.
 
2012-10-07 04:09:24 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: I just bought one of these:

[images.dealerrevs.com image 480x360]

$150 doesn't even fill it up and it gets about 13mpg.

Love it.


But where are the weapons and the push bar? Then it would be worth it.

I use one of these for transportation:

img.photobucket.com

(with titanium trucks and semi-hards) and it costs me an ice coffee, made at home, to power it. Ta-Da!

/no emissions unless I have bean burrito, so bonus!
 
2012-10-07 04:09:45 PM  

pedrop357: TomD9938: Minnesota dropped its emmission testing some years ago because the fails were almost entirely by the poor and their badly tuned shiat-piles.

Which is my biggest problem with vehicle emissions programs. Apparently being poor means you get to pollute. It's like letting people get waivers to burn their trash in their front yard because garbage service costs too much.


This is perfect for Fark then. The poor get to fark up and do dumb shiat while people who do not make fail life choices get to pay to bail them out. This is what most of the boot licking statist farkers believe at least.
 
2012-10-07 04:13:33 PM  

12349876: Yes. Let's take that money per month. 1160 vs. 1760. Let's assume you're spending 1/3 your income on rent. So that's 385 and 585. I live in a pretty low cost of living area, and even there at 385 you're going to need a roommate/workingspouse or live in the ghetto. At 585, you can live by yourself in a decent safe area. HUGE DIFFERENCE


xl5150 argues just to argue. He does it in every damn thread. I don't think he agrees with a single person ever. Save your breath.
 
2012-10-07 04:14:17 PM  

Aikidogamer: pedrop357: TomD9938: Minnesota dropped its emmission testing some years ago because the fails were almost entirely by the poor and their badly tuned shiat-piles.

Which is my biggest problem with vehicle emissions programs. Apparently being poor means you get to pollute. It's like letting people get waivers to burn their trash in their front yard because garbage service costs too much.

This is perfect for Fark then. The poor get to fark up and do dumb shiat while people who do not make fail life choices get to pay to bail them out. This is what most of the boot licking statist farkers believe at least.


This is what trolls actually post. 3/10. Step up your game son. Old talking points are old.
 
2012-10-07 04:17:52 PM  

Honest Bender: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of how awesome we are.


I don't think that's "awesome" you're hearing.

www.femtalks.com
 
2012-10-07 04:18:51 PM  

thursdaypostal: 12349876: Yes. Let's take that money per month. 1160 vs. 1760. Let's assume you're spending 1/3 your income on rent. So that's 385 and 585. I live in a pretty low cost of living area, and even there at 385 you're going to need a roommate/workingspouse or live in the ghetto. At 585, you can live by yourself in a decent safe area. HUGE DIFFERENCE

xl5150 argues just to argue. He does it in every damn thread. I don't think he agrees with a single person ever. Save your breath.


Thanks for ruining my fun... Mr. Fun Ruiner.
 
2012-10-07 04:18:51 PM  

Cyclometh: Why was this the last line in TFA? Should have been first.

"Her firing came just before she was to get tenure."

Pretty goddamn obvious why she got canned. Also pretty obvious some heads will roll and she'll win that lawsuit.


This!
 
2012-10-07 04:20:15 PM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: (with titanium trucks and semi-hards)


I have that problem too.
 
2012-10-07 04:21:54 PM  

thursdaypostal: 12349876: Yes. Let's take that money per month. 1160 vs. 1760. Let's assume you're spending 1/3 your income on rent. So that's 385 and 585. I live in a pretty low cost of living area, and even there at 385 you're going to need a roommate/workingspouse or live in the ghetto. At 585, you can live by yourself in a decent safe area. HUGE DIFFERENCE

xl5150 argues just to argue. He does it in every damn thread. I don't think he agrees with a single person ever. Save your breath.


Kinda obvious troll with the whole $11/hr minimum wage thing.
 
2012-10-07 04:22:05 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: I don't think that's "awesome" you're hearing.


WHAT? I can't... I can't hear you! BRB, In-n-out run. On second though, BBL. The weather is really nice today. Think I'll go for a walk in the park after lunch.
 
2012-10-07 04:23:03 PM  
thursdaypostal: xl5150 argues just to argue. He does it in every damn thread. I don't think he agrees with a single person ever. Save your breath.

I would readily agree with someone who says that you're a dumbass. Quick, somebody post it so that I can agree with you and we can prove him wrong quickly and severely.
 
2012-10-07 04:26:30 PM  

snocone: wantingout: an it also doesn't help that it's an election year, and republicans own alot of the oil companies.

Are you saying they need a quick cash infusion to pay for their fantasy?
That's tin foil talk.


Nope, just making the derps gnash and wail about gas prices, blame it on Obama, and throw more votes to Romney. Typical partisan BS.
 
2012-10-07 04:29:10 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: I think it has something to do with our multiple climates and hilly areas


Would it really be that hard to come up with one blend that worked in urban ares and the rest? Economies of scale dictate that if your only making one thing your going to make it cheaply.

Establish a more environmentally friendly flavor for California and then standardize the nation on that one formula. Everyone wins with a more environmentally friendly blend and cheaper prices as your no longer beholden to artificial monopolies.
 
2012-10-07 04:29:31 PM  

wildcardjack: I'm trying to separate my income from location so I can take the advice of Tom Waits, which is to spend some time in New York, but leave before it makes you hard, and some time in LA, but leave before it makes you soft.


After five years in LA I'm more jaded than I've ever been... the only way I've gotten "soft" is being spoiled by the weather. It's a tough city to live in.
 
2012-10-07 04:30:16 PM  
Smog in LA is caused mostly by cars:
Link
 
2012-10-07 04:30:43 PM  
TorqueToad: wildcardjack: I'm trying to separate my income from location so I can take the advice of Tom Waits, which is to spend some time in New York, but leave before it makes you hard, and some time in LA, but leave before it makes you soft.

After five years in LA I'm more jaded than I've ever been... the only way I've gotten "soft" is being spoiled by the weather. It's a tough city to live in.


Agreed. LA is a pretty hard city. I'd always heard that advice as being NY and San Francisco.
 
2012-10-07 04:31:03 PM  
Gosh-damn to hell 'n gone! I was back in California in 71-72 when gas skyrocketed from 0.35/gal. to the unheard of 0.50 a gallon! I'll tell you right now we were outraged,outraged I say.The stations(no selfserve those days)that still had gas formed lines a half mile long for rationing.We went on cold weather training to the Mojave Desert in July. Years later I find out we were doing prelimenary exercises to invade Saudia Arabia and protect our oil rights.
So west coasters,grab your bootstraps and suck it up.You deserve it.
 
2012-10-07 04:33:49 PM  

haineux: Smog in LA is caused mostly by cars:
Link


Ric Romero reporting...
 
2012-10-07 04:34:45 PM  

12349876: xl5150: 12349876: On a weekly basis it's 290 vs. 440. That's a 50% difference. Think of how your life would be changed with a 50% pay raise. All of our lives would be changed drastically. Even Mitt Romney's.

My point is that there's not much difference between a pittance and a slightly larger pittance. An extra $150 a week? What can you really do with that? And that comes out to $7500 a year, which is less than I spent on our last weekend trip to Santa Barbara.

You're right, it is more. But my point, which is that it's not a significant amount of money, is also right. I mean, I could offer you a penny and then DOUBLE the offer. Wow! A 100% improvement! Would you be so excited about that too?

Yes. Let's take that money per month. 1160 vs. 1760. Let's assume you're spending 1/3 your income on rent. So that's 385 and 585. I live in a pretty low cost of living area, and even there at 385 you're going to need a roommate/workingspouse or live in the ghetto. At 585, you can live by yourself in a decent safe area. HUGE DIFFERENCE


Give it up. He is a known troll who likes to pose as an unsympathetic person of wealth with no concern for others
 
2012-10-07 04:35:15 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.

I dunno if it's news... I just like saying it.

/California sucks.


I can't disagree with you. Outside of my 12 year old and my 19 year old, I have yet to find another adult-like entity in this state.

/Six more years...unless I can get the ex to give up her weekends with the kid.
 
2012-10-07 04:38:54 PM  

Honest Bender: Pray 4 Mojo: I don't think that's "awesome" you're hearing.

WHAT? I can't... I can't hear you! BRB, In-n-out run. On second though, BBL. The weather is really nice today. Think I'll go for a walk in the park after lunch.


Ha ha... you mean... after you drive to the park... you're going to walk around it... then drive back home?

In-N-Out is a fair point... but you do know that they exist outside of CA right?
 
2012-10-07 04:42:26 PM  

iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

This is what happens when oil companies yield to the will of the EPA. They see that the price of oil will go up as a consequence of the refinery closing.

Oil is at $89 per barrel; that's less than $2 a gallon. Add in taxes; processing and shipping and a gallon of gas costs anywhere from $2.50 - $2.90 to produce. In some cases; we pay $5 a gallon. Some of that is oil futures; but what is the rest? Pure profit.

/ I know there are other factors; but, most of the remainer is profiteering


Hot flash: Check your figures.

1. A market "barrel" of oil is 42 Gallons.
2. Fuel taxes in California are 69 cents/gal Plus 18.5 Federal excise, plus whatever city and local sales taxes are added. (Diesel tax is 79.5/gal + 24.4/gal + local sales)
3. How much do the extra "boutique" additives cost, as well as the extra production and special delivery facilities and costs required. Remember that the delivery trucks use diesel and have to pay the higher taxes... (They don't spring out of the ground for free, despite Socialist fantasies.)

Now, would you want to re-figure, or are you content with your lies?

 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-07 04:54:55 PM  

steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.

Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.


The scientists who actually track and measure the pollution are wrong based on what? Because you say so?
 
2012-10-07 04:56:21 PM  

xl5150: 12349876: You don't know how the other half lives.

Sure I do. The summer after 11th grade my dad made me get a job for the entire summer to show me what it's like to have to work for a living. I had to spend 3 days a week working for $11 an hour (this was the mid 90s, so it was minimum wage back then). It taught me a valuable lesson about the working man, so I resent the remark that I don't know how the other half lives.

12349876: I'm in the gas station convenience store from time to time because the big stores don't sell Mountain Dew Throwback, and you'd be surprised how many people are getting gas. One guy the other day used a roll of nickels and a few high value coins to get 5 bucks of gas

Then it's on them to work and make themselves marketable so that they can demand more for their services. I don't feel bad for anyone who sits around moaning about their situation and doesn't do anything to improve it.


...$11 an hour (this was the mid 90s, so it was minimum wage back then)

When was mininum wage EVER $11 an hour???

that is all
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-07 04:58:42 PM  

meintx2001: redlegrick: At the risk of sounding like a no-good, tree-hugging, liberal communist socialist, I can kinda see why California wants to go with electric cars. It's constant and consistent irregardless of the other energy sources used to generate it.

Except for when they hit rollIng brown and black outs. Just wait until the price of electricity jumps up as usage goes up. Like any other fuel, it's price can change.


Even though the rolling blackouts were caused by a price fixing scheme by private power generators and electricity isn't generated using with oil.
 
2012-10-07 05:00:50 PM  

xl5150: 12349876: You don't know how the other half lives.

Sure I do. The summer after 11th grade my dad made me get a job for the entire summer to show me what it's like to have to work for a living. I had to spend 3 days a week working for $11 an hour (this was the mid 90s, so it was minimum wage back then). It taught me a valuable lesson about the working man, so I resent the remark that I don't know how the other half lives.



No, you don't.

$11 isn't minimum wage now and it sure wasn't back when you were in 11th grade. And you worked 3 days a week? Wow, what a sacrifice.

You're profile says Beverly Hills, it says you've never left CA, and you went to USC. So based on my powers of deduction I'm going out on a limb and say you've had every single opportunity left at your feet by your rich daddy, you probably didn't pay a dime of your own money for your education, and you were hired at a law firm owned by your daddy or one of his friends. You've spent your entire life with other entitled morons in your Beverly Hills bubble and you probably have $100s in parking tickets in a given week yet you try to haggle with cashiers at supermarkets (Whole Foods or Gelsen's)

Assuming you're not a troll you are an incredibly sheltered individual who has ZERO idea "how the other half lives."
 
2012-10-07 05:00:54 PM  

onyxruby: drjekel_mrhyde: I think it has something to do with our multiple climates and hilly areas

Would it really be that hard to come up with one blend that worked in urban ares and the rest? Economies of scale dictate that if your only making one thing your going to make it cheaply.

Establish a more environmentally friendly flavor for California and then standardize the nation on that one formula. Everyone wins with a more environmentally friendly blend and cheaper prices as your no longer beholden to artificial monopolies.


STOP

MAKING

SENSE
 
2012-10-07 05:05:06 PM  

daxxenos: iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

This is what happens when oil companies yield to the will of the EPA. They see that the price of oil will go up as a consequence of the refinery closing.

Oil is at $89 per barrel; that's less than $2 a gallon. Add in taxes; processing and shipping and a gallon of gas costs anywhere from $2.50 - $2.90 to produce. In some cases; we pay $5 a gallon. Some of that is oil futures; but what is the rest? Pure profit.

/ I know there are other factors; but, most of the remainer is profiteering

Hot flash: Check your figures.1. A market "barrel" of oil is 42 Gallons.
2. Fuel taxes in California are 69 cents/gal Plus 18.5 Federal excise, plus whatever city and local sales taxes are added. (Diesel tax is 79.5/gal + 24.4/gal + local sales)
3. How much do the extra "boutique" additives cost, as well as the extra production and special delivery facilities and costs required. Remember that the delivery trucks use diesel and have to pay the higher taxes... (They don't spring out of the ground for free, despite Socialist fantasies.)Now, would you want to re-figure, or are you content with your lies?


Quite content; did you miss the part where I came up with California's production stats?

Well; here it is again,
http://www.era.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_sca_a.htm

In essence; California has been stripping itself of refineries and refining capacity. In 2007; California had 21 refineries producing 2,037,188 barrels per day. In 2012 California has 18 refineries, with 2 idle; producing 1,955,971 barrels per day.

That's a difference of 81 thousand barrels a day; which works out to well over 3 million gallons of crude oil not being processed per day.

/ I was using the wrong barrel; 50 gallons; but me thinks I may have found the culprit for gas prices
 
2012-10-07 05:08:25 PM  

APE992: The rest of the country is just mad they're:

1)In a drought
2)Facing hurricanes
3)Facing tornadoes
4)Detroit

I'll just drive less.

/difficulty: I live 15 minutes from my Uni campus
//2 hours from Sacramento



We also have a small commute, so we only need to fill up our one car just once a month.

Gas could triple in price and we wouldn't flinch.
 
2012-10-07 05:08:26 PM  

Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.


As someone who escaped in '99, I'm rooting for you.

/GET OUT
 
2012-10-07 05:10:18 PM  

APE992: The rest of the country is just mad they're:

1)In a drought
2)Facing hurricanes
3)Facing tornadoes
4)Detroit

I'll just drive less.

/difficulty: I live 15 minutes from my Uni campus
//2 hours from Sacramento


That's ok, we won't let you use our water anymore. Enjoy your dehydration
 
2012-10-07 05:13:04 PM  

phamwaa: Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.

As someone who escaped in '99, I'm rooting for you.

/GET OUT


Well bye.
 
2012-10-07 05:26:41 PM  
wait until we label monsanto out of our state this election

then wait for us to complain about how expensive non gmo food is
 
2012-10-07 05:29:28 PM  

jasnotron: snocone: GodsTumor: Just another reason to get one of these...

[imageshack.us image 276x183]

Yes it is.
Big Coal loves you long time.

/ownership is much less sociopathic

So much this ^. I still don't get how people think electric cars are the answer. Where the f#$* do you think electricity comes from ? Oh yeah that's right Californians don't care because they won't allow new power generation facilities to be built in their state but will import the hell out of PNW hydropower and drive up our prices.


It should be coming from solar, wind ...other green energy's.
Germany produces nearly half of it's energy from solar and Germany is not a sunny country.
Oh yeah, we can't invest in green technology, we have to bow down to the oil companies. 
Germany solar
 
2012-10-07 05:32:59 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: I just bought one of these:

[images.dealerrevs.com image 480x360]

$150 doesn't even fill it up and it gets about 13mpg.

Love it.


I have one of those in black. Here's a pic:

www.adonisleathercrafters.com
 
2012-10-07 05:33:36 PM  

Minimum:
Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.


What exactly did he screw up? Because Meg Whitman who just ran against him -- and lost -- PRAISED the standard of living he provided through his policies had under his prior terms as governor.

Whitman: "Why I came to California"
 
2012-10-07 05:36:07 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Honest Bender: Pray 4 Mojo: I don't think that's "awesome" you're hearing.

WHAT? I can't... I can't hear you! BRB, In-n-out run. On second though, BBL. The weather is really nice today. Think I'll go for a walk in the park after lunch.

Ha ha... you mean... after you drive to the park... you're going to walk around it... then drive back home?

In-N-Out is a fair point... but you do know that they exist outside of CA right?


No. I mean walk. There's an In-n-out near me. Also a park. California!!! Perfect weather today.
 
2012-10-07 05:39:06 PM  
I say we just give everything south of sacramento back to mexico...
 
2012-10-07 05:44:18 PM  

Minimum: Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.


Actually the idiots were the ones who elected Nut Meg to run against him!

In California the Republicans seem to want to be regulated to third party status as evidenced by the Nuts they pick to run! If they had a brain we would have a Republican Gov. named Poizner right know!
 
2012-10-07 05:48:04 PM  

iheartscotch: In essence; California has been stripping itself of refineries and refining capacity. In 2007; California had 21 refineries producing 2,037,188 barrels per day. In 2012 California has 18 refineries, with 2 idle; producing 1,955,971 barrels per day.

That's a difference of 81 thousand barrels a day; which works out to well over 3 million gallons of crude oil not being processed per day.

/ I was using the wrong barrel; 50 gallons; but me thinks I may have found the culprit for gas prices


So tell me how the Fact that California EXPORTS to other states 10-25% of the gas produced affects your theory on this?
 
2012-10-07 05:54:50 PM  
It cracks me up how people hate on California, I think it is mostly jealousy.
 
2012-10-07 05:56:59 PM  
Here is the real problem

The Refineries are not properly maintained resulting in things like explosions

Many of the refineries actually schedule inspections to find shut down maintenance right before a holiday weekend when demand will drive up wholesale prices

The Refineries will also increase the amount of fuel that is not CA blend -which decreases the production of CA blend- to allow export to other states while ignoring the increase demand in CA

You also have Station owners that are raising their prices 3 or 4 times in a day even though they have not received any fuel at the higher wholesale price.
 
2012-10-07 06:05:26 PM  

Azlefty: iheartscotch: In essence; California has been stripping itself of refineries and refining capacity. In 2007; California had 21 refineries producing 2,037,188 barrels per day. In 2012 California has 18 refineries, with 2 idle; producing 1,955,971 barrels per day.

That's a difference of 81 thousand barrels a day; which works out to well over 3 million gallons of crude oil not being processed per day.

/ I was using the wrong barrel; 50 gallons; but me thinks I may have found the culprit for gas prices

So tell me how the Fact that California EXPORTS to other states 10-25% of the gas produced affects your theory on this?


They take 10-25% of the gasoline they produce and ship it elsewhere? You'd think, by definition; that gasoline is no longer in the California market.

Ok; California produces approximately 228 thousand barrels of gas per day (http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_dcu_sca_a.htm). You said 10% to 25% is exported. 10%-25% of that is approximately 22 thousand - 57 thousand barrels a day; leaving California with 206 thousand - 171 thousand barrels a day. You're right; I don't see how that would decrease the supply of gasoline in California at all.

But, I digress; I know 81 thousand barrels doesn't sound like much; but other things get made out of crude besides gasoline. Shrinking the supply of crude oil processed increases the price of all related products; I don't know if you missed that day in macro economics, but I didn't.

/ shrink supply = higher price
 
2012-10-07 06:09:05 PM  

FizixJunkee: Pray 4 Mojo: I just bought one of these:

[images.dealerrevs.com image 480x360]

$150 doesn't even fill it up and it gets about 13mpg.

Love it.

I have one of those in black. Here's a pic:

[www.adonisleathercrafters.com image 228x228]


What is the towing capacity of yours?
 
2012-10-07 06:11:48 PM  
How ironic that a regulation designed by Tree Huggers ends up as profit for oil companies.
 
2012-10-07 06:26:43 PM  

HempHead: Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?

Ahhhh, yes, Prop 13, allowing Warren Buffet to only pay $300/yr in property taxes for his mansion in Laguna Beach while the state goes broke. 

[www.instablogsimages.com image 585x389]


You realize that Prop 13 helps the non-wealthy far more than the wealthy, right? If Buffet had to pay $300,000/year in property tax on his mansion, he wouldn't even notice. If my grandpa had to pay "adjusted" taxes on his property/home that he bought/built in the early 60s, it would have consumed about 50% of his combined pension and social security income at the peak of the market. Just because he happened to build his house in an area that became very popular after he arrived and helped build it up. How on earth would that have been fair?

If you want people to put down roots and build a community, you can't punish them for creating a community where other people want to live. The increased property values and increased tax base are a direct result of the people who arrived first who created a desirable environment.
 
2012-10-07 06:28:55 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-07 06:35:29 PM  

jtown: HempHead: Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?

Ahhhh, yes, Prop 13, allowing Warren Buffet to only pay $300/yr in property taxes for his mansion in Laguna Beach while the state goes broke. 

[www.instablogsimages.com image 585x389]

You realize that Prop 13 helps the non-wealthy far more than the wealthy, right? If Buffet had to pay $300,000/year in property tax on his mansion, he wouldn't even notice. If my grandpa had to pay "adjusted" taxes on his property/home that he bought/built in the early 60s, it would have consumed about 50% of his combined pension and social security income at the peak of the market. Just because he happened to build his house in an area that became very popular after he arrived and helped build it up. How on earth would that have been fair?

If you want people to put down roots and build a community, you can't punish them for creating a community where other people want to live. The increased property values and increased tax base are a direct result of the people who arrived first who created a desirable environment.


Except they extended it to commercial property owned by non-human corporate entities. Yes, it helped out seniors and other fixed income folks immensely, but the unintended side effects have screwed over almost everyone else. There's a reason many towns refuse to zone for housing, which causes scarcity, which raises prices up the wazoo...
 
2012-10-07 06:49:29 PM  
Oh my God, I am paying $10 more a week for gas, I am going to go broke!

/sarcasm
 
2012-10-07 06:57:26 PM  

L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.



I couldnt believe it when an old coworker told me the Valley used to be drenched in smog. I figured if anything, we had it much worse today, but it turns out its not the case. Hell, you can see tankers floating around out in the ocean from some of the smaller peaks around Mt Baldy on windy days nowadays. The old coworker couldnt believe that.
 
2012-10-07 07:10:19 PM  

steamingpile: APE992: The rest of the country is just mad they're:

1)In a drought
2)Facing hurricanes
3)Facing tornadoes
4)Detroit

I'll just drive less.

/difficulty: I live 15 minutes from my Uni campus
//2 hours from Sacramento

No no, no and no.

Glad I don't live out there, nice to visit but wouldn't want to live there, prices are too high and outside if San Fran doesn't have much to offer in arts.

I would move to Europe first.


Maybe that's a dig at L.A. . . but you forgot L.A.
 
2012-10-07 07:13:22 PM  
imageshack.us
 
2012-10-07 07:14:11 PM  

badLogic: It cracks me up how people hate on California, I think it is mostly jealousy.


No, it is the batshiat insanery of your politicians and the fact you have 30 million+ people living in a desert draining water from watersheds of other states.
 
2012-10-07 07:17:01 PM  

D_Evans45: L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.


I couldnt believe it when an old coworker told me the Valley used to be drenched in smog. I figured if anything, we had it much worse today, but it turns out its not the case. Hell, you can see tankers floating around out in the ocean from some of the smaller peaks around Mt Baldy on windy days nowadays. The old coworker couldnt believe that.


Smog was so bad in the 80s and before that you could feel, taste and smell it. It was like a heavy fog but dirtier. The good old days when we had PE in the cafeteria and the occasional visit from the EMT since some kid or two had an asthma attack. Good times.
 
2012-10-07 07:52:40 PM  

xl5150: An extra $150 a week? What can you really do with that?


$150/week is about $7.500/yr.

Thats a trip to Oktoberfest for 4 days with about $4000 leftover. If you dont want yours, can I has?
 
2012-10-07 07:56:06 PM  
o5iiawah: $150/week is about $7.500/yr.

Thats a trip to Oktoberfest for 4 days with about $4000 leftover. If you dont want yours, can I has?



I don't think anyone making $7-something an hour will be taking any trips to Oktoberfest. That was precisely my point. For people who make plenty of money, that extra $150 a week is discretionary. For people who are low-wage earners, it's not going to raise them above the level they currently are.
 
2012-10-07 08:08:09 PM  

xl5150: o5iiawah: $150/week is about $7.500/yr.

Thats a trip to Oktoberfest for 4 days with about $4000 leftover. If you dont want yours, can I has?


I don't think anyone making $7-something an hour will be taking any trips to Oktoberfest. That was precisely my point. For people who make plenty of money, that extra $150 a week is discretionary. For people who are low-wage earners, it's not going to raise them above the level they currently are.


That's what I tell the poor people that work for me when they ask for more money. I swear I have to explain it to them like children. "A buck or two an hour for you is not really going to make any difference... but if I keep it all... that's a few grand a week I get to keep! Seriously, what's more important... that you guys get to have a fast food dinner an extra night a week... or that I get the upgraded bathroom fixtures on my yacht?"

Farking poor people... they're so selfish... and they're farking kids are already too fat.
 
2012-10-07 08:16:25 PM  

Trocadero: jtown: HempHead: Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?

Ahhhh, yes, Prop 13, allowing Warren Buffet to only pay $300/yr in property taxes for his mansion in Laguna Beach while the state goes broke. 

[www.instablogsimages.com image 585x389]

You realize that Prop 13 helps the non-wealthy far more than the wealthy, right? If Buffet had to pay $300,000/year in property tax on his mansion, he wouldn't even notice. If my grandpa had to pay "adjusted" taxes on his property/home that he bought/built in the early 60s, it would have consumed about 50% of his combined pension and social security income at the peak of the market. Just because he happened to build his house in an area that became very popular after he arrived and helped build it up. How on earth would that have been fair?

If you want people to put down roots and build a community, you can't punish them for creating a community where other people want to live. The increased property values and increased tax base are a direct result of the people who arrived first who created a desirable environment.

Except they extended it to commercial property owned by non-human corporate entities. Yes, it helped out seniors and other fixed income folks immensely, but the unintended side effects have screwed over almost everyone else. There's a reason many towns refuse to zone for housing, which causes scarcity, which raises prices up the wazoo...


You realize that landlords often times pass their property tax bills onto their tenants? If Prop 13 weren't around, tenant's rents would have jumped at least 50% between 2002 and 2008, never mind standard rent increases. That's a formula for disaster for tenants.
 
2012-10-07 08:19:03 PM  

xl5150: o5iiawah: $150/week is about $7.500/yr.

Thats a trip to Oktoberfest for 4 days with about $4000 leftover. If you dont want yours, can I has?


I don't think anyone making $7-something an hour will be taking any trips to Oktoberfest. That was precisely my point. For people who make plenty of money, that extra $150 a week is discretionary. For people who are low-wage earners, it's not going to raise them above the level they currently are.


It can if applied smartly. In the real world, we sometimes experience $500-$1,000 setbacks. broken tooth, blown tires, oops phone bill, you name it. What is a nuisance for some who set money aside can be a disaster for a low income earner if they dont have any money in reserve to deal with rainy days. Is $150/wk going to bring someone from poverty into the country club? No, but it gives them breathing room for when life throws curveballs. As long as they arent pissing the money away on booze and lotto tickets, that breathing room can make all the difference between stroking a check and going to a payday lender or pawn shop with the lawnmower.
 
2012-10-07 08:32:35 PM  

Fart_Machine: phamwaa: Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.

As someone who escaped in '99, I'm rooting for you.

/GET OUT

Well bye.


Geez, too lazy to post the pic? Typical Cal-ee-for-nee-an.

/Also, thirteen years too late
//Ya, bye to you too
 
2012-10-07 08:58:18 PM  
So basically, the 3.8 million people who live in the greater LA area dictate how much the 38,000,000 in the rest of the state pay for gas. Wait a minute... thats 1% and 99% !! Where have I heard this before?
The only pictures I've ever seen of smog in California have been of the LA basin. The smog in LA forced Cali legislature to force the refineries to make special blends to reduce the smog; special blends = higher prices, old refineries = breakdowns = higher prices, therefore LA smog = higher gas $$
I say make the 1%ers pay their fair share!!
Side note, in 2010 I paid $4.85 a gallon in Bridgeport, CA a one horse town in the Eastern Sierras during a hiking trip, no smog there. Seems very unfair.
 
2012-10-07 09:05:49 PM  

vpb: Even though the rolling blackouts were caused by a price fixing scheme by private power generators and electricity isn't generated using with oil.


Look, to get electricity, you have to do something to cause generators to spin. Sometimes its burning shiat, sometimes it is using a water fall, and maybe someday we can put two molecules together can make the turbines spin that way. The point is, if you switch from gas to electric it is still very likely to use non renewable resources to propel itself. And that fuel will change to reflect market demands.
 
2012-10-07 09:11:24 PM  
kyrg: So basically, the 3.8 million people who live in the greater LA area dictate how much the 38,000,000 in the rest of the state pay for gas. Wait a minute... thats 1% and 99% !! Where have I heard this before?.

The population of LA city itself is 3.8 million. Throw in the rest of the metro area around LA and you're closer to 13 million.

Carry on.
 
2012-10-07 09:26:22 PM  

kyrg: The only pictures I've ever seen of smog in California have been of the LA basin.


Well... that's certainly proof isn't it.

FYI... the worst air in the country is in the CA Central Valley.
 
2012-10-07 09:45:22 PM  

kyrg: So basically, the 3.8 million people who live in the greater LA area dictate how much the 38,000,000 in the rest of the state pay for gas. Wait a minute... thats 1% and 99% !! Where have I heard this before?
The only pictures I've ever seen of smog in California have been of the LA basin. The smog in LA forced Cali legislature to force the refineries to make special blends to reduce the smog; special blends = higher prices, old refineries = breakdowns = higher prices, therefore LA smog = higher gas $$
I say make the 1%ers pay their fair share!!
Side note, in 2010 I paid $4.85 a gallon in Bridgeport, CA a one horse town in the Eastern Sierras during a hiking trip, no smog there. Seems very unfair.


I've been camping near Bridgeport since the 80s and it has always had higher gas prices, probably due to there not being any other gas stations that close and that it's a bear to get in there in the winter. Thus I always top off in Minden when I go camping every year.

And the smog isn't just an LA thing, really a valley everywhere deal. I can remember looking down the hill along I80 toward Scaramento and you couldn't see anything but grey slop.especially in the summer. It's still pretty bad when it gets hot, but it has improved.
 
2012-10-07 09:50:20 PM  

vpb: Lots of places have oxygenated gas during part of the year.


My gas is oxygenated by Kenne Bell...
 
2012-10-07 09:50:53 PM  

phamwaa: Fart_Machine: phamwaa: Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.

As someone who escaped in '99, I'm rooting for you.

/GET OUT

Well bye.

Geez, too lazy to post the pic? Typical Cal-ee-for-nee-an.

/Also, thirteen years too late
//Ya, bye to you too


I'm posting from a phone doofus.
 
2012-10-07 10:04:34 PM  

wildcardjack: I'm trying to separate my income from location so I can take the advice of Tom Waits, which is to spend some time in New York, but leave before it makes you hard, and some time in LA, but leave before it makes you soft.


That was San Francisco that makes you soft. LA just makes you pretentious.
 
2012-10-07 10:08:30 PM  

wildcardjack: I'm trying to separate my income from location so I can take the advice of Tom Waits, which is to spend some time in New York, but leave before it makes you hard, and some time in LA, but leave before it makes you soft.


Wasn't that actually a line from Baz Luhrmann's "Sunscreen"?


"Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard.

Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft."
 
2012-10-07 10:10:20 PM  

kyrg: So basically, the 3.8 million people who live in the greater LA area dictate how much the 38,000,000 in the rest of the state pay for gas. Wait a minute... thats 1% and 99% !!


Noooooo, that's 10% and 90%.

And as was said before, the LA metro area's population is 13 million. So that's about 1/3 and 2/3rds
 
2012-10-07 10:16:55 PM  

jtown: HempHead: Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?

Ahhhh, yes, Prop 13, allowing Warren Buffet to only pay $300/yr in property taxes for his mansion in Laguna Beach while the state goes broke. 

[www.instablogsimages.com image 585x389]

You realize that Prop 13 helps the non-wealthy far more than the wealthy, right? If Buffet had to pay $300,000/year in property tax on his mansion, he wouldn't even notice. If my grandpa had to pay "adjusted" taxes on his property/home that he bought/built in the early 60s, it would have consumed about 50% of his combined pension and social security income at the peak of the market. Just because he happened to build his house in an area that became very popular after he arrived and helped build it up. How on earth would that have been fair?

If you want people to put down roots and build a community, you can't punish them for creating a community where other people want to live. The increased property values and increased tax base are a direct result of the people who arrived first who created a desirable environment.



I got mine - screw the rest of you. I love that mentality in older people.
 
2012-10-07 10:21:38 PM  

ScottRiqui: wildcardjack: I'm trying to separate my income from location so I can take the advice of Tom Waits, which is to spend some time in New York, but leave before it makes you hard, and some time in LA, but leave before it makes you soft.

Wasn't that actually a line from Baz Luhrmann's "Sunscreen"?


"Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard.

Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft."


Now I have to listen to Tom Waits until I find the reference. See if it's before or after Sunscreen.
 
2012-10-07 10:25:56 PM  

OneCrazyIvan: Trocadero: jtown: HempHead: Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?

Ahhhh, yes, Prop 13, allowing Warren Buffet to only pay $300/yr in property taxes for his mansion in Laguna Beach while the state goes broke. 

[www.instablogsimages.com image 585x389]

You realize that Prop 13 helps the non-wealthy far more than the wealthy, right? If Buffet had to pay $300,000/year in property tax on his mansion, he wouldn't even notice. If my grandpa had to pay "adjusted" taxes on his property/home that he bought/built in the early 60s, it would have consumed about 50% of his combined pension and social security income at the peak of the market. Just because he happened to build his house in an area that became very popular after he arrived and helped build it up. How on earth would that have been fair?

If you want people to put down roots and build a community, you can't punish them for creating a community where other people want to live. The increased property values and increased tax base are a direct result of the people who arrived first who created a desirable environment.

Except they extended it to commercial property owned by non-human corporate entities. Yes, it helped out seniors and other fixed income folks immensely, but the unintended side effects have screwed over almost everyone else. There's a reason many towns refuse to zone for housing, which causes scarcity, which raises prices up the wazoo...

You realize that landlords often times pass their property tax bills onto their tenants? If Prop 13 weren't around, tenant's rents would have jumped at least 50% between 2002 and 2008, never mind standard rent increases. That's a formula for disaster for tenants.


But even though one 12.5-acre piece of Google's property was assessed last year for $65.5 million, much of the neighboring land is still taxed on values virtually unchanged from what they were three decades ago, when a nearby golf course and Shoreline Amphitheater had yet to be built and the area still served as San Francisco's garbage dump.

While that portion of Google's land is taxed at a rate of approximately 35 cents per  square foot, the land under Intuit's corporate campus, which is just around the corner, has an estimated property tax burden of 3 cents per square foot. Meantime, tax rates on land under recently purchased neighboring single-family homes ranged from $1 to $1.25 per square foot, according to a Bay Citizen examination of assessments on 2010 home sales in Mounts...


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/us/california-property-taxes-can-va r y-wildly-in-silicon-valley.html?pagewanted=all

.
 
2012-10-07 10:53:01 PM  

xl5150: 12349876: On a weekly basis it's 290 vs. 440. That's a 50% difference. Think of how your life would be changed with a 50% pay raise. All of our lives would be changed drastically. Even Mitt Romney's.

My point is that there's not much difference between a pittance and a slightly larger pittance. An extra $150 a week? What can you really do with that? And that comes out to $7500 a year, which is less than I spent on our last weekend trip to Santa Barbara.

You're right, it is more. But my point, which is that it's not a significant amount of money, is also right. I mean, I could offer you a penny and then DOUBLE the offer. Wow! A 100% improvement! Would you be so excited about that too?


Well, for some of us, $150 can be the groceries for a family of six for a week, so that makes a pretty big damned difference at minimum wage! If your looking at, if I fill my gas tank to go to work, will my kids have supper on Thursday, that's all the difference in the world.
 
2012-10-07 10:54:07 PM  

steamingpile: Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.


Other sources have been cleaned up as well. But really, most of it was cars.

xl5150: The population of LA city itself is 3.8 million. Throw in the rest of the metro area around LA and you're closer to 13 million.


Add the San Francisco Bay Area and that's another 7 million, that's 2/3rds the state population right there.

Offhand it seems from reading the papers most of the whining about California gas prices is from out of state.
 
2012-10-07 11:42:44 PM  

iheartscotch:

But, I digress; I know 81 thousand barrels doesn't sound like much; but other things get made out of crude besides gasoline. Shrinking the supply of crude oil processed increases the price of all related products; I don't know if you missed that day in macro economics, but I didn't.

/ shrink supply = higher price


can you explain why the elasticity of gasoline is how you are describing it? is there evidence that this is really the case? is it better to produce 100 kbd to sell at $4/gal or 200 kbd to sell at $3/gal? I guess in your case you believe that going from 100 to 200 kbd would more than cut price in half?

The reality behind this is not some ill intention of the refiners to limit supply and raise prices, but at the same time, sell less product by virtue of just making less. I have some experience in the refining industry and what I've seen is that most refineries are trying to run as much crude oil as they can. Reliability issues are just as painful for the producers as they are for the customers at the pump. If you aren't running the refinery, you aren't reaping any benefits of the increase in prices if you aren't selling anything.

You also may want to look into the profit margins in the refining side of the industry. Its very hard to survive as a solely refining based company, and this tends to be why you see closures, and why no one is pushing too hard to build grassroots refineries. Sunoco comes to mind as an example of a company that has been closing plants down on the east coast - because they just aren't making money. If you look at those huge integrated oil companies who make obscene profits, you will find that only very small fraction of that profit comes from the refining sector of the business. I'd say anywhere from 75-90% of their money is made on producing and selling the crude oil itself, not refining it.
 
2012-10-07 11:46:24 PM  
REP. CLIFF STEARNS, R-Fla.: Last September you made a statement that somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe, which at the time exceeded $8 a gallon. As Secretary of Energy, will you speak for or against any measures that would raise the price of gasoline?
SEC. CHU: As Secretary of Energy, I think especially now in today's economic climate it would be completely unwise to want to increase the price of gasoline. And so we are looking forward to reducing the price of transportation in the American family. And this is done by encouraging fuel-efficient cars; this is done by developing alternative forms of fuel like biofuels that can lead to a separate source, an independent source of transportation fuel.
REP. STEARNS: But you can't honestly believe that you want the American people to pay for gasoline at the prices, the level in Europe?
SEC. CHU: No, we don't.
REP. STEARNS: No. But somehow, your statement, "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," doesn't that sound a little bit silly in retrospect for you to say that?
SEC. CHU: Yes.
 
2012-10-07 11:58:41 PM  
All a matter of perspective... Last week I had a package to collect south of the border. I made sure to cross the border while on reserve and fill-up just before crossing back into Canada in order to take full advantage of the cheap $3.89/gal diesel in the US. Diesel in my town costs $1.37/litre ($5.13/US gal), but that's still way cheaper than regular unleaded at $1.47/L or $5.51/gal

USians get little sympathy from the rest of the world when it comes to complaining about the price of gas.
 
2012-10-08 12:03:53 AM  

Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.


Well... bye.
 
2012-10-08 12:38:49 AM  

mrtremere: I drive a Chevy Volt and I'm getting a kick out of these comments.
$32 was TOTAL fuel cost for the MONTH and I drove 1700 miles.

250 MPG Baby!!!


In the summer I ride a $150 motorcycle which gets over 80MPG and I'm getting a kick out of the $40k extra you spent. How many years will you have to drive it before you actually start saving money? Better yet, how many years will you have to drive your Volt before you start saving money over my $3000, 34MPG 1960s sports car? And how much will it cost to replace your battery pack when it fails after 7-10 years?

Since 5 years is a good average length of time to own a car (and a good average length of ownership without any major repair costs) I did some of the math for you. Over five years your Volt will cost $8,360/mo, my motorcycle will cost $1,110/mo, and my car will cost $3,247/mo. Since the battery packs look like they'll last between 7 and 10 years we can look at that, too. At the 7 year mark the monthly costs will average out to: Volt - $6,074/mo ($7,217 with battery replacement), bike - $1,101/mo, my car - $3,068/mo. At ten years: Volt - $4,360/mo ($5,160 with battery), bike - $1,095/mo, car - $2,940/mo. And those costs don't take into account the $8000+ cost of battery replacement.

So just keep "tooling" along in your hybrid, getting a kick out of how much money you're, uh... saving.

/False economy seems awesome if you can't think.
//Answer: 16 years with static gas prices and no battery replacements, or 7 years if gas rises steadily to $15/gal (average of ~$9.25) and you don't have to replace the battery by then. Resale would help both of our numbers since my car's value will go up, likely leading to a negative effective purchase price, and your purchase cost will go down by however much you can get for a used Volt. But that assumes that someone will want to pay anything for a boring car which needs dealer support to service and has worn-out, expensive batteries. If only it were legal to buy a 70MPG, $23000 VW Polo diesel in the USA ($4,425/mo after 7 years, and no batteries to replace)
///Tool
 
2012-10-08 12:43:51 AM  

LibertyHiller: Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.

Well... bye.


I'm still in CA most of the time... in fact... I'm sitting in South SF right now.

I just chose to pay taxes, register my vehicles, vote and get my mail elsewhere.

The savings are tremendous! (5 figures easy)

Unfortunately... I can't outsource the hordes of people and traffic. So even though it's cheaper now... it still sucks here.
 
2012-10-08 12:59:29 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: I just chose to pay taxes, register my vehicles, vote and get my mail elsewhere.

The savings are tremendous! (5 figures easy)


Ah, a freeloader. You live in the state but don't contribute to its upkeep.

How bootstrappy.
 
2012-10-08 01:39:04 AM  
Taoist Jedi: Well, for some of us, $150 can be the groceries for a family of six for a week, so that makes a pretty big damned difference at minimum wage! If your looking at, if I fill my gas tank to go to work, will my kids have supper on Thursday, that's all the difference in the world.

Christ, why the hell are you having four kids if you only make minimum wage? What is it about poor people always squirting out kids they can't afford in the first place, and then pointing at those of us who actually plan things out and work hard to do well and claim that we're the bad guys and it's our fault they're poor? If you only make minimum wage and you have a family of six and filling your gas tank will keep your family from eating, then you need to be starved off because you're too dumb to live. I have zero empathy for someone who makes minimum wage and decides that they want to go ahead and have a family of six. That's your bad decision and you can deal with the consequences.

My tax dollars at work in the form of Earned Income Credit.....
 
2012-10-08 02:24:34 AM  

xl5150: Christ, why the hell are you having four kids if you only make minimum wage? What is it about poor people always squirting out kids they can't afford in the first place, and then pointing at those of us who actually plan things out and work hard to do well and claim that we're the bad guys and it's our fault they're poor? If you only make minimum wage and you have a family of six and filling your gas tank will keep your family from eating, then you need to be starved off because you're too dumb to live. I have zero empathy for someone who makes minimum wage and decides that they want to go ahead and have a family of six. That's your bad decision and you can deal with the consequences.

My tax dollars at work in the form of Earned Income Credit.....


DEFUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD!
 
2012-10-08 02:27:15 AM  
Lee Jackson Beauregard: DEFUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD!

Not by a long shot. If planned parenthood gives abortions to poor people, then I'm all in favor of it. My only lament would be that they can't make abortions mandatory for poor people or else force sterilization on them in some way.
 
2012-10-08 04:25:59 AM  

vpb: Lots of places have oxygenated gas during part of the year.


True, except: 1) California was a net oil exporter until 1999, so pipelines are generally designed to ship east than west; 2) California has something like 17 different blend formulas.
 
2012-10-08 08:54:21 AM  
Go green, fark the poor
 
2012-10-08 10:35:29 AM  

Mikey1969: steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.

Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.

OR(Get this...), it could be BOTH! Yep, car emission requirements sure could have contributed to less smog along with cleaner factories. I know it doesn't fit anybody's Farkgenda™ to have both answers be right, but I can guarantee you that while cleaner factories have helped contribute to less smog, there is no way that you can convince me that having cars burn less fuel, thereby putting less pollutants in the atmosphere isn't helping as well.


ooh... I want in on this...

I bet it's outsourcing manufacturing that solved that California smog problem. Don't believe me? Look at all of the smog where the manufacturers went to... China.

/sweep the problem under the rug, problem solved.
//thanks China for being our rug.
 
2012-10-08 11:06:12 AM  

badLogic: It cracks me up how people hate on California, I think it is mostly jealousy.


Envy =/= Jeealousy. They are envious.
 
2012-10-08 11:12:59 AM  

Mr. Ekshun: mrtremere: I drive a Chevy Volt and I'm getting a kick out of these comments.
$32 was TOTAL fuel cost for the MONTH and I drove 1700 miles.

250 MPG Baby!!!

In the summer I ride a $150 motorcycle which gets over 80MPG and I'm getting a kick out of the $40k extra you spent. How many years will you have to drive it before you actually start saving money? Better yet, how many years will you have to drive your Volt before you start saving money over my $3000, 34MPG 1960s sports car? And how much will it cost to replace your battery pack when it fails after 7-10 years?

Since 5 years is a good average length of time to own a car (and a good average length of ownership without any major repair costs) I did some of the math for you. Over five years your Volt will cost $8,360/mo, my motorcycle will cost $1,110/mo, and my car will cost $3,247/mo. Since the battery packs look like they'll last between 7 and 10 years we can look at that, too. At the 7 year mark the monthly costs will average out to: Volt - $6,074/mo ($7,217 with battery replacement), bike - $1,101/mo, my car - $3,068/mo. At ten years: Volt - $4,360/mo ($5,160 with battery), bike - $1,095/mo, car - $2,940/mo. And those costs don't take into account the $8000+ cost of battery replacement.

So just keep "tooling" along in your hybrid, getting a kick out of how much money you're, uh... saving.

/False economy seems awesome if you can't think.
//Answer: 16 years with static gas prices and no battery replacements, or 7 years if gas rises steadily to $15/gal (average of ~$9.25) and you don't have to replace the battery by then. Resale would help both of our numbers since my car's value will go up, likely leading to a negative effective purchase price, and your purchase cost will go down by however much you can get for a used Volt. But that assumes that someone will want to pay anything for a boring car which needs dealer support to service and has worn-out, expensive batteries. If only it were legal to buy a 70MPG, ...


I'm curious, what do you ride ? no bike I've ever owned did 80mpg, and that includes a couple of 100s (though they were two-strokes)

Your math may apply to your specific circumstances, but for the majority of road users ownership of a Volt (which is not a hybrid, btw) should be compared with ownership of a regular 4-door sedan, then it starts making a lot of sense. You also fail to include the environmental cost of a grossly polluting 60s sports car, nice as that car may be. If we all drove one, the air would be unbreathable. And if those sports cars were British, we would be driving on a road surface that was permanently lubed with all sorts of fluids meant to be on the inside of an engine, but which the Brits never discovered the means to keep there. If that were the case, you couldn't use your 80mpg bike.

Finally, you can't buy a Lupo, diesel or otherwise, for a couple of reasons:

First, North Americans are not willing to buy expensive small cars.

Second, North Americans outside Quebec don't like diesels.

Third, the diesel Lupo does not meet US emissions regulations, though it does meet European regulations. This last point is an unintended consequence of the Tokyo accord: European governments pointedly chose to favour diesels with subsidized fuel and ad hoc emissions standards which permit higher levels of carcinogenic particulates, in order to lower their use of fossil fuels so as to meet their goals under the Tokyo protocol. In other words, they have traded higher carcinogens for lower greenhouse gases. Cleaning up diesel emissions in order to meet US standards requires particulate filters and urea injection, which raises the purchase price and operating costs...

Fourth, and final point, as stated in the previous point, in most member states of the EU, diesel is a heavily subsidized fuel. In the US and Canada, where it is not subsidized, diesel costs close to the same as unleaded, and sometimes more, making it impossible for most owners to recoup the additional purchase cost of a diesel over a gasoline-powered car.

/Still love my BlueTec
 
2012-10-08 11:14:44 AM  

Honest Bender: badLogic: It cracks me up how people hate on California, I think it is mostly jealousy.

Envy =/= Jeealousy. They are envious.


I stand corrected. I could not imagine living any where other then Sonoma County, even though I don't really care for wine. I recall reading a few years back that Sonoma has the most moderate weather in the country. Not to hot in the summer and not freezing in the winter.
 
2012-10-08 12:57:01 PM  

xl5150: -5/10


I have felt a great disturbance in the force, as if hundreds of ignore lists suddenly went *favorited!*, and another lousy troll was silenced.
 
2012-10-08 01:45:26 PM  

aerojockey: Yep, we're paying for the ability to see more than half a mile and not breathe in carbon particles all day, and it's worth the price. (That is, it's worth the price differential relative to other states.)


Actually you're paying for there being absolutely no excess refining capacity in the state. Four refineries have shut down in the past 20 years, none have been built, and the ones that exist are at full-out capacity. That means even a minor disruption in a single refinery can result in drastic price increases. The Global Warming Solutions Act (GWSA) will have its first Cap and Trade auction in November and the costs from that are going to be passed on to fuel consumers. When the heavier California Air Resources Board (CARB) regs kick in in 2015, you'll see more refineries shut down rather than upgrade to meet the new regs. You can expect gas prices to shoot up a lot from all of this. Add to that the price increases in electricity and natural gas that are coming due to CARB and GWSA, and it's going to get a lot pricier to live in Cally, and the state economy is going to get hit big time. And most of that will be due to attempts to control carbon emissions to fight global war ... uh, climate change, not "pollution". Yay, we saved the world .01 degrees of warming at the cost of our jobs and dying of heat prostration because we can't afford to run our air conditioners.
 
2012-10-08 03:44:09 PM  
capt.hollister:I'm curious, what do you ride ? no bike I've ever owned did 80mpg, and that includes a couple of 100s (though they were two-strokes)

Your math may apply to your specific circumstances, but for the majority of road users ownership of a Volt (which is not a hybrid, btw) should be compared with ownership of a regular 4-door sedan, then it starts making a lot of sense. You also fail to include the environmental cost of a grossly polluting 60s sports car, nice as that car may be. If we all drove one, the air would be unbreathable. And if those sports cars were British, we would be driving on a road surface that was permanently lubed with all sorts of fluids meant to be on the inside of an engine, but which the Brits never discovered the means to keep there. If that were the case, you couldn't use your 80mpg bike.

Finally, you can't buy a Lupo, diesel or otherwise, for a couple of reasons:

First, North Americans are not willing to buy expensive small cars.

Second, North Americans outside Quebec don't like diesels.

Third, the diesel Lupo does not meet US emissions regulations, though it does meet European regulations. This last point is an unintended consequence of the Tokyo accord: European governments pointedly chose to favour diesels with subsidized fuel and ad hoc emissions standards which permit higher levels of carcinogenic particulates, in order to lower their use of fossil fuels so as to meet their goals under the Tokyo protocol. In other words, they have traded higher carcinogens for lower greenhouse gases. Cleaning up diesel emissions in order to meet US standards requires particulate filters and urea injection, which raises the purchase price and operating costs...

Fourth, and final point, as stated in the previous point, in most member states of the EU, diesel is a heavily subsidized fuel. In the US and Canada, where it is not subsidized, diesel costs close to the same as unleaded, and sometimes more, making it impossible for most owners to recoup the additional purchase cost of a diesel over a gasoline-powered car.

/Still love my BlueTec


I had another wall of text all prepared but decided to spare the huddled masses of Fark and emailed it to you instead.
 
2012-10-08 04:06:40 PM  

badLogic: Honest Bender: badLogic: It cracks me up how people hate on California, I think it is mostly jealousy.

Envy =/= Jeealousy. They are envious.

I stand corrected. I could not imagine living any where other then Sonoma County, even though I don't really care for wine. I recall reading a few years back that Sonoma has the most moderate weather in the country. Not to hot in the summer and not freezing in the winter.


Are people still posting here?

It's not envy... or jealousy. Odds that are good that I lived in CA longer then either of you... 34 years as a resident... and still work in CA about 90% of my year. I know from experience. It sucks... and it sucks hard.
 
2012-10-08 04:49:51 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: badLogic: Honest Bender: badLogic: It cracks me up how people hate on California, I think it is mostly jealousy.

Envy =/= Jeealousy. They are envious.

I stand corrected. I could not imagine living any where other then Sonoma County, even though I don't really care for wine. I recall reading a few years back that Sonoma has the most moderate weather in the country. Not to hot in the summer and not freezing in the winter.

Are people still posting here?

It's not envy... or jealousy. Odds that are good that I lived in CA longer then either of you... 34 years as a resident... and still work in CA about 90% of my year. I know from experience. It sucks... and it sucks hard.


Well do this 48 year resident, and the state, a favor then and move the fark out and don't come back, As I recall, you're the freeloader that does everything he can to avoid paying his fair share in maintaining the infrastructure here.
 
2012-10-08 04:54:02 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo:
It's not envy... or jealousy. Odds that are good that I lived in CA longer then either of you... 34 years as a resident... and still work in CA about 90% of my year. I know from experience. It sucks... and it sucks hard.


Yet you're still here taking in all the suck and not contributing.

You sound like a Real American[tm].
 
2012-10-08 05:13:17 PM  

lohphat: Pray 4 Mojo:
It's not envy... or jealousy. Odds that are good that I lived in CA longer then either of you... 34 years as a resident... and still work in CA about 90% of my year. I know from experience. It sucks... and it sucks hard.

Yet you're still here taking in all the suck and not contributing.

You sound like a Real American[tm].


Most likely a bootstrappy Job Creator[tm].
 
2012-10-08 08:44:14 PM  

badLogic: Pray 4 Mojo: badLogic: Honest Bender: badLogic: It cracks me up how people hate on California, I think it is mostly jealousy.

Envy =/= Jeealousy. They are envious.

I stand corrected. I could not imagine living any where other then Sonoma County, even though I don't really care for wine. I recall reading a few years back that Sonoma has the most moderate weather in the country. Not to hot in the summer and not freezing in the winter.

Are people still posting here?

It's not envy... or jealousy. Odds that are good that I lived in CA longer then either of you... 34 years as a resident... and still work in CA about 90% of my year. I know from experience. It sucks... and it sucks hard.

Well do this 48 year resident, and the state, a favor then and move the fark out and don't come back, As I recall, you're the freeloader that does everything he can to avoid paying his fair share in maintaining the infrastructure here.


Ha ha... u mad bro?

I did move out... and won't ever move back. However... I travel for my job... so I go where they send me. I can refuse assignments in CA I guess... but that's not a smart thing to be doing right now. Two of our main clients are building heavily in CA right now... hopefully I'll be out of here next year.

I pay about 50 cents a gallon and about 8% of my local purchases to the support of the State (and local governments). Considering my lifestyle while traveling... that's not a small amount. And considering that the end result of my months of "free-loading" is somewhere between 100-500 new job openings... I wouldn't call it "free loading". Not that I'm a "job creator" or anything... I don;t own these companies... just saying... considering the balance sheet of my "free loading" vs some actual CA resident's "free loading"... I think you'd be better off with more people like me than them.

Also... I do apologize for assuming/guessing that you were a recent transplant to CA... not sure where I got that from.
 
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