FARK.com: (7368633) California requires their own special seasonal blends of gas that aren't the same as what the rest of the country uses, then complains about how high their gas prices are. Oh, and it doesn't help when the local refineries crap out

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		California requires their own special seasonal blends of gas that aren't the same as what the rest of the country uses, then complains about how high their gas prices are. Oh, and it doesn't help when the local refineries crap out (nytimes.com)		192
		More: Dumbass, Southern California, gas prices, high taxes, refineries, valero, gasoline, Valero Energy

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HempHead		2012-10-07 03:18:55 PM

Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?

Ahhhh, yes, Prop 13, allowing Warren Buffet to only pay $300/yr in property taxes for his mansion in Laguna Beach while the state goes broke.

www.instablogsimages.com

pedrop357		2012-10-07 03:19:03 PM

TomD9938: Minnesota dropped its emmission testing some years ago because the fails were almost entirely by the poor and their badly tuned shiat-piles.

Which is my biggest problem with vehicle emissions programs. Apparently being poor means you get to pollute. It's like letting people get waivers to burn their trash in their front yard because garbage service costs too much.

Pray 4 Mojo		2012-10-07 03:19:38 PM

Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?

He has a really stupid looking official portrait.

/California sucks.

mongbiohazard		2012-10-07 03:19:43 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: onyxruby: Why can't we simply have one formula across the country and standardize on it? Get the EPA to approve a formula of blah and leave it at that. This kind of thing is entirely the kind of self wrought insanity that needs to end.

People in flyover country don't need the expensive blends that urban areas need because of the amount of vehicle traffic.

onyxruby has a point though, in that it probably wouldn't be as expensive of a blend if it was the only one they made for the US. Now, whether or not that new price was lower than the average paid now for the different blends is a different matter...

Tony_Pepperoni		2012-10-07 03:20:14 PM

Why does California have a so called "Winter blend gasoline"? There's no winter here in California.

xl5150		2012-10-07 03:23:56 PM

Meh. It costs me just about $100 to fill each of my (2) cars, and the same is true for both of my wife's cars. To be honest, I don't really notice a fluctuation. Whether it costs $89 one day or $120 another day, it's pretty much the same. I think gas prices would have to get up to about $15 or $20 a gallon if I was really going to notice.

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad		2012-10-07 03:24:20 PM

Seacop: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: As a reminder to all Californians considering a move to the north: Oregon is terrible and rains all the time.

too late, moved to Astoria 8 weeks ago.

/Dryest summer on record.

That's fine, the coast is ok. Portland though, just terrible. No one should ever move here.

/3% rental vacancy in downtown, very annoying

Gaius		2012-10-07 03:24:21 PM

Arizona (Maricopa county, at lest) does the same thing.

TomD9938		2012-10-07 03:25:04 PM

pedrop357: TomD9938: Minnesota dropped its emmission testing some years ago because the fails were almost entirely by the poor and their badly tuned shiat-piles.

Which is my biggest problem with vehicle emissions programs. Apparently being poor means you get to pollute. It's like letting people get waivers to burn their trash in their front yard because garbage service costs too much.

Yeah, nice idea, but unintended consequences and all that.

mrtremere		2012-10-07 03:25:40 PM

I drive a Chevy Volt and I'm getting a kick out of these comments.
$32 was TOTAL fuel cost for the MONTH and I drove 1700 miles.

250 MPG Baby!!!

Rug Doctor		2012-10-07 03:27:13 PM

Because California is the ONLY state that expects special treatment for their regional foolishness? Please. What do you think the Senate does?

Mithiwithi		2012-10-07 03:28:03 PM

iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

Plenty of existing refineries have been expanded since they were built, though. There's no reason to go through the whole rigmarole of environmental impact studies on a new site when there's plenty of room to expand on the existing site.

"Capacity has also been added to existing refineries through upgrades or new construction. The most recent examples include:

* In 1998, Orion Refinery massively upgraded and reopened a refinery in Norco, Louisiana, which was a small, simple refinery that originally opened in 1967. (It is now owned by Valero.)
* Valero opened a "new" and very sophisticated refinery in 1983 in Corpus Christi, Texas, on the site of a simple refinery that originally opened in 1975."

Source

12349876		2012-10-07 03:28:56 PM

xl5150: Meh. It costs me just about $100 to fill each of my (2) cars, and the same is true for both of my wife's cars. To be honest, I don't really notice a fluctuation. Whether it costs $89 one day or $120 another day, it's pretty much the same. I think gas prices would have to get up to about $15 or $20 a gallon if I was really going to notice.

You don't know how the other half lives.

I'm in the gas station convenience store from time to time because the big stores don't sell Mountain Dew Throwback, and you'd be surprised how many people are getting gas. One guy the other day used a roll of nickels and a few high value coins to get 5 bucks of gas. My experience is that those going inside (as opposed to pay at the pump) are more likely to be getting 20 bucks or less than 50 bucks or more.

Martonio		2012-10-07 03:31:38 PM

Seacop: Mithiwithi: Minimum: The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up kept Prop 13 from totally screwing things up in the 70's.

What exactly did Jerry Brown screw up in the 70's, anyway?

Linda Rondstat

i847.photobucket.com

Well done.

/I'll overlook the spelling error

iheartscotch		2012-10-07 03:33:49 PM

12349876: iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

Capacity is just fine. The problem is the industry has consolidated and exanded (think Mom and Pop to Wal Mart) which means when there is a problem, it affects a much bigger chunk than it used to.

I agree; production has gone up. But; demand has skyrocketed as well. An increase in the number of refineries would increase production; and hopefully decrease the price of gas.

California has been slowly depriving itself of refineries and production capacity. They went from 21 refineries in 2007 with none idle to 18 refineries in 2012 with 2 idle; and from 2,037,188 barrels per day in 2007 to 1,955,971 barrels per day in 2012.

That's 81 thousand barrels a day or 4 million gallons a day less.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_c ap1_dcu_sca_a.htm

teto85		2012-10-07 03:34:55 PM

I live and work in San Francisco and the Mrs. works across the Bay. Public transit gets us where we need to go. We do have cars but haven't filled up in over a week. I am glad I made a deposit for a Tesla SUV.

Real Women Drink Akvavit		2012-10-07 03:34:58 PM

L.D. Ablo: As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.
I remember those days well. We had to play (without running, so we didn't die of teh azmuh) inside. I'm in NorCal now, so I have to put up with tree pollen and the dreaded cottonwood instead.

steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.

My Mother retired from the Air Resources Board. The only job in the US she ever had. Every time they'd manage to give new recommendations to either factories or for car emissions, she'd get death threats as people who were against improving air quality would start handing out the phone numbers for everyone at ARB. It was a combination of factors causing smog and no one wanted to fix it, not the car manufacturers, the drivers of those cars or the factory owners/managers. If the levees are crumbling, you don't patch just one section, you have to do your best to fix everything. Same with air quality and SoCal's smog (which has improved dramatically - I was down there just 4 or 5 months ago and was delighted with the results.)

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: As a reminder to all Californians considering a move to the north: Oregon is terrible and rains all the time.

You left out the freaky, kid-killing religious extremists known as Oregon City Followers of Christ Church and the occasional former member who will speak out about weird teachings and fatal shenanigans. The relative tolerance of fatal child neglect for "religious freedom" is one of the scariest things about Oregon IMO. I'll stay in Overpriced stuff but year round growing season, no tolerance for "faith healing" that kills others and lovely weather land, thanks.

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves		2012-10-07 03:35:27 PM

pedrop357: Given that the vast majority of cars on the road are fuel injected (nearly all are port injected no less) with all the requisite computer control over fueling, why do we need oxygenated fuel at all?

Any car with an oxygen sensor whose feedback is used to control the fueling process adjusts for oxygen density differences continuously. The only thing that oxygenated fuel does for fuel injected cars is cause the computer to increase injector duty cycle (more fuel) to compensate. Some cars have the added benefit of losing top end power because of injectors that are near the edge of their limits with non-oxygenated fuel and simply can't flow more fuel to make up for the extra oxygen.

Maybe someone else can explain how oxygenated fuel makes any emissions difference in any computer controlled fuel system that uses O2 sensor(s) for feedback (probably ~80+% of the cars on the road today).

Or you could look it up. Wouldn't it be crazy if you were connected to a computer network where this kind of information was available at your fingertips?

Try searching under "oxygenated fuel"

iheartscotch		2012-10-07 03:39:06 PM

Mithiwithi: iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

Plenty of existing refineries have been expanded since they were built, though. There's no reason to go through the whole rigmarole of environmental impact studies on a new site when there's plenty of room to expand on the existing site.

"Capacity has also been added to existing refineries through upgrades or new construction. The most recent examples include:

* In 1998, Orion Refinery massively upgraded and reopened a refinery in Norco, Louisiana, which was a small, simple refinery that originally opened in 1967. (It is now owned by Valero.)
* Valero opened a "new" and very sophisticated refinery in 1983 in Corpus Christi, Texas, on the site of a simple refinery that originally opened in 1975."

Source

I agree; existing refineries can and should be expanded. There are also plenty of sites that used to have a refinery that could be used. The problem is; the EPA doesn't like refineries. Even expanding existing operations or reopening an old refinery is an onerous process that might need an act of congress to actually take affect.

jasnotron		2012-10-07 03:39:56 PM

snocone: GodsTumor: Just another reason to get one of these...

[imageshack.us image 276x183]

Yes it is.
Big Coal loves you long time.

/ownership is much less sociopathic

So much this ^. I still don't get how people think electric cars are the answer. Where the f#$* do you think electricity comes from ? Oh yeah that's right Californians don't care because they won't allow new power generation facilities to be built in their state but will import the hell out of PNW hydropower and drive up our prices.

GriffXX		2012-10-07 03:42:41 PM

Call me snooty, but I always love the time of year when I switch over to Pumpkin Spiced Unleaded.

xl5150		2012-10-07 03:43:17 PM

12349876: You don't know how the other half lives.

Sure I do. The summer after 11th grade my dad made me get a job for the entire summer to show me what it's like to have to work for a living. I had to spend 3 days a week working for $11 an hour (this was the mid 90s, so it was minimum wage back then). It taught me a valuable lesson about the working man, so I resent the remark that I don't know how the other half lives.

12349876: I'm in the gas station convenience store from time to time because the big stores don't sell Mountain Dew Throwback, and you'd be surprised how many people are getting gas. One guy the other day used a roll of nickels and a few high value coins to get 5 bucks of gas

Then it's on them to work and make themselves marketable so that they can demand more for their services. I don't feel bad for anyone who sits around moaning about their situation and doesn't do anything to improve it.

dictyboy		2012-10-07 03:44:22 PM

stiletto_the_wise: steamingpile: L.D. Ablo: This, along with other changes, dramatically improved the smog problem in LA.

As a kid, we had smog days at school where we weren't allowed out for PE or recess. You could see the smog hanging in the air. It was awful.

There's still a bit of smog, but it's much better today.

Did you ever stop to think that it may be due to factories being cleaner and nothing to do with car emissions? I know what has been preached to you for over two decades but they could be wrong.

Even if it did have something to do with car emissions (debatable), the smog reduction would have to be attributed to stricter emissions testing, and not gasoline regulations. I struggle every two years to pass, because my car is so old, it was never designed to meet the ridiculous smog figures CA demands.

You do know that the standards differ by model, your car only has to meet the standards that were existing at the time it was built? Last time I got my old (22yrs) car smogged, it failed one of the standards by .01 (allowable was .10, mine was .11). The tech said it was probably a bad cat. When I pulled off the old one, it was empty inside, all of the the catalyst had blown out along with the gridwork that held it in. New cat installed, passed with flying colors. If you're struggling to pass, your car probably has some issues.

pedrop357		2012-10-07 03:45:27 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Or you could look it up. Wouldn't it be crazy if you were connected to a computer network where this kind of information was available at your fingertips?

Try searching under "oxygenated fuel"

Prick.

I understand quite clearly what oxygenated fuel IS (the majority of searches only explain what it is.). Very few explain beyond some vaguery about reducing CO emissions and most revolve around carburetors.

My attempt to ask here was to a.)See if any of the farkers here had some insight. and b.)spurn a discussion about the merits of oxygenated gas in modern engines.

12349876		2012-10-07 03:46:31 PM

xl5150: $11 an hour (this was the mid 90s, so it was minimum wage back then)

You can't be serious, can you?

The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm

AmbassadorBooze		2012-10-07 03:50:05 PM

When CARB boots Hein Tran out for good and maybe show some remorse for keeping a fraud liar on the payroll, I will gleefully pay more for gas. Until that day, anything that CARB has a a hand in I will oppose for no other reason than to oppose CARB.

-Hein Tran Lied about a phd from U.C. Davis, and Mary NIchols covered it up. They slapped him on the wrist and he is still employed by CARB. I am sure there are actual scientists with phds that they could find to replace him. Any fraud in government makes the rest look bad. They should ferret out fraud and destroy the lives and careers of these turd bags.

xl5150		2012-10-07 03:51:01 PM

12349876: The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009.

Meh. There's not much you can do with $11 that you can't do with $7.25.

Pray 4 Mojo		2012-10-07 03:52:54 PM

I just bought one of these:

images.dealerrevs.com

$150 doesn't even fill it up and it gets about 13mpg.

Love it.

12349876		2012-10-07 03:53:24 PM

xl5150: 12349876: The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $7.25 per hour effective July 24, 2009.

Meh. There's not much you can do with $11 that you can't do with $7.25.

7.25 * 40 hours * 50 weeks = 14,500

11 *40 *50 = 22,000

7,500 a year makes a huge difference.

OgreMagi		2012-10-07 03:53:50 PM

Actually, the entire country uses the same blends. There's a summer blend and a winter blend. The problem is while the rest of the country switches to the winter blend at the beginning of October, California waits another month to make the switch. This produces a gas shortage every damn year along with the subsequent price hike.

xl5150		2012-10-07 03:54:50 PM

12349876: 7,500 a year makes a huge difference.

Not really. Especially on a week-to-week basis.

scanman61		2012-10-07 03:58:17 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: onyxruby: Why can't we simply have one formula across the country and standardize on it? Get the EPA to approve a formula of blah and leave it at that. This kind of thing is entirely the kind of self wrought insanity that needs to end.

People in flyover country don't need the expensive blends that urban areas need because of the amount of vehicle traffic.

Want to know an ugly secret? Nobody needs those blends anymore.

Oxygenated fuel blends made a big difference back in the days of carberetors, but since 99% of gasoline vehicles are feedback fuel injection the oxygenated fuel doesn't make a difference.

DogBlack		2012-10-07 03:58:57 PM

iheartscotch: It doesn't help that there hasn't been a new refinery built in the us in at least 30 years; and there's a lot more demand for gas. Not only that; but many refineries have been closed for one reason or another.

This is what happens when oil companies yield to the will of the EPA. They see that the price of oil will go up as a consequence of the refinery closing.

Oil is at $89 per barrel; that's less than $2 a gallon. Add in taxes; processing and shipping and a gallon of gas costs anywhere from $2.50 - $2.90 to produce. In some cases; we pay $5 a gallon. Some of that is oil futures; but what is the rest? Pure profit.

/ I know there are other factors; but, most of the remainer is profiteering

Just to help you out on a few points:

Oil is measured by 42 gallon barrels. If you're curious why Wikipedia gives a good history.

Gasoline yield per barrel is 19.9 gallons. Lots of other things are made with the rest including diesel, asphalt, roofing, bunk fuel, etc.

Not all oil is 89 per barrel. That is NYMEX West Texas intermediate crude. Sour, aka high sulphur, oil sells for up to $15 less. Also the price of oil is immediately affected by the strength of the currency used to purchase it, in our case the dollar.

Hope this info helps.

12349876		2012-10-07 04:00:42 PM

xl5150: 12349876: 7,500 a year makes a huge difference.

Not really. Especially on a week-to-week basis.

On a weekly basis it's 290 vs. 440. That's a 50% difference. Think of how your life would be changed with a 50% pay raise. All of our lives would be changed drastically. Even Mitt Romney's.

Cyclometh		2012-10-07 04:02:25 PM

Why was this the last line in TFA? Should have been first.

"Her firing came just before she was to get tenure."

Pretty goddamn obvious why she got canned. Also pretty obvious some heads will roll and she'll win that lawsuit.

Cyclometh		2012-10-07 04:03:16 PM

Cyclometh: Why was this the last line in TFA? Should have been first.

"Her firing came just before she was to get tenure."

Pretty goddamn obvious why she got canned. Also pretty obvious some heads will roll and she'll win that lawsuit.

OK, so I've done another Fark first. Been here five years and never did the "Post on the wrong thread" thing. I feel all special.

Carry on.

Pray 4 Mojo		2012-10-07 04:03:41 PM

xl5150		2012-10-07 04:05:11 PM

12349876: On a weekly basis it's 290 vs. 440. That's a 50% difference. Think of how your life would be changed with a 50% pay raise. All of our lives would be changed drastically. Even Mitt Romney's.

My point is that there's not much difference between a pittance and a slightly larger pittance. An extra $150 a week? What can you really do with that? And that comes out to $7500 a year, which is less than I spent on our last weekend trip to Santa Barbara.

You're right, it is more. But my point, which is that it's not a significant amount of money, is also right. I mean, I could offer you a penny and then DOUBLE the offer. Wow! A 100% improvement! Would you be so excited about that too?

TheGreatGazoo		2012-10-07 04:05:33 PM

I used to drive a 2001 Honda Insight. There was someone on the forums complaining that they tried to do a sensor based smog test in Massachusettes and it failed because it didn't put out enough emissions. The sensor registered at 0 unless the engine was going more than 3000 rpm.

Apparently if you don't register high enough they think you are pumping air in your exhaust.

drjekel_mrhyde		2012-10-07 04:07:37 PM

onyxruby: Why can't we simply have one formula across the country and standardize on it? Get the EPA to approve a formula of blah and leave it at that. This kind of thing is entirely the kind of self wrought insanity that needs to end.

I think it has something to do with our multiple climates and hilly areas

12349876		2012-10-07 04:08:08 PM

xl5150: 12349876: On a weekly basis it's 290 vs. 440. That's a 50% difference. Think of how your life would be changed with a 50% pay raise. All of our lives would be changed drastically. Even Mitt Romney's.

My point is that there's not much difference between a pittance and a slightly larger pittance. An extra $150 a week? What can you really do with that? And that comes out to $7500 a year, which is less than I spent on our last weekend trip to Santa Barbara.

You're right, it is more. But my point, which is that it's not a significant amount of money, is also right. I mean, I could offer you a penny and then DOUBLE the offer. Wow! A 100% improvement! Would you be so excited about that too?

Yes. Let's take that money per month. 1160 vs. 1760. Let's assume you're spending 1/3 your income on rent. So that's 385 and 585. I live in a pretty low cost of living area, and even there at 385 you're going to need a roommate/workingspouse or live in the ghetto. At 585, you can live by yourself in a decent safe area. HUGE DIFFERENCE

Honest Bender		2012-10-07 04:08:35 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of how awesome we are.

Fart_Machine		2012-10-07 04:09:22 PM

Minimum: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Living in SoCal.

All I can say is:

This is news?

Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. The idiots in this state re elected him after he screwed things up in the 70's.
Looking to move out of here as soon as it is practical.

Um were you even alive back then? Brown was far more fiscally conservative than Reagan. California never fully recovered from Wilson's deregulation fiasco.

Real Women Drink Akvavit		2012-10-07 04:09:24 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: I just bought one of these:

[images.dealerrevs.com image 480x360]

$150 doesn't even fill it up and it gets about 13mpg.

Love it.

But where are the weapons and the push bar? Then it would be worth it.

I use one of these for transportation:

img.photobucket.com

(with titanium trucks and semi-hards) and it costs me an ice coffee, made at home, to power it. Ta-Da!

/no emissions unless I have bean burrito, so bonus!

Aikidogamer		2012-10-07 04:09:45 PM

pedrop357: TomD9938: Minnesota dropped its emmission testing some years ago because the fails were almost entirely by the poor and their badly tuned shiat-piles.

Which is my biggest problem with vehicle emissions programs. Apparently being poor means you get to pollute. It's like letting people get waivers to burn their trash in their front yard because garbage service costs too much.

This is perfect for Fark then. The poor get to fark up and do dumb shiat while people who do not make fail life choices get to pay to bail them out. This is what most of the boot licking statist farkers believe at least.

thursdaypostal		2012-10-07 04:13:33 PM

12349876: Yes. Let's take that money per month. 1160 vs. 1760. Let's assume you're spending 1/3 your income on rent. So that's 385 and 585. I live in a pretty low cost of living area, and even there at 385 you're going to need a roommate/workingspouse or live in the ghetto. At 585, you can live by yourself in a decent safe area. HUGE DIFFERENCE

xl5150 argues just to argue. He does it in every damn thread. I don't think he agrees with a single person ever. Save your breath.

Fart_Machine		2012-10-07 04:14:17 PM

Aikidogamer: pedrop357: TomD9938: Minnesota dropped its emmission testing some years ago because the fails were almost entirely by the poor and their badly tuned shiat-piles.

Which is my biggest problem with vehicle emissions programs. Apparently being poor means you get to pollute. It's like letting people get waivers to burn their trash in their front yard because garbage service costs too much.

This is perfect for Fark then. The poor get to fark up and do dumb shiat while people who do not make fail life choices get to pay to bail them out. This is what most of the boot licking statist farkers believe at least.

This is what trolls actually post. 3/10. Step up your game son. Old talking points are old.

Pray 4 Mojo		2012-10-07 04:17:52 PM

Honest Bender: Pray 4 Mojo: This just in:

California sucks.

That is all.

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of how awesome we are.

I don't think that's "awesome" you're hearing.

www.femtalks.com

Pray 4 Mojo		2012-10-07 04:18:51 PM

thursdaypostal: 12349876: Yes. Let's take that money per month. 1160 vs. 1760. Let's assume you're spending 1/3 your income on rent. So that's 385 and 585. I live in a pretty low cost of living area, and even there at 385 you're going to need a roommate/workingspouse or live in the ghetto. At 585, you can live by yourself in a decent safe area. HUGE DIFFERENCE

xl5150 argues just to argue. He does it in every damn thread. I don't think he agrees with a single person ever. Save your breath.

Thanks for ruining my fun... Mr. Fun Ruiner.