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(The New York Times)   Who made the escape key? Probably the same guy that invented the 'any' key   (nytimes.com) divider line 143
    More: Interesting, Dance Dance Revolution, Tower of Babel, Timeline of computing 1950-1979, In other words  
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5123 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Oct 2012 at 2:55 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-07 01:34:39 PM  
Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net
 
2012-10-07 03:01:03 PM  

cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net


Or when I worked at UPS and they used an AS/400 networked to a bunch of PCs. Pressing ESC twice gave me access to the supervisor or whatever it was called. I was able to reboot workstations at random and send messages to all, etc. The IT bigwigs came up from Paramus to interrogate me since it was "impossible" to do what I did...
 
2012-10-07 03:04:02 PM  

cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net


for autoCAD is an essential command. In fact, my left ring finder sits over the ESC by default when i am drafting.
 
2012-10-07 03:04:37 PM  

cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net


copcop.net
 
2012-10-07 03:11:47 PM  
Get rid of the damn Insert key!

Escape gets me out of fullscreen and I use it. Unless I get stuck in Firefox fullscreen, in which case I throw my computer on the ground and go buy a new one.
 
2012-10-07 03:12:32 PM  
Doors to the old Fry's Electronics:

www.fanac.org
 
mhd
2012-10-07 03:12:35 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-07 03:13:37 PM  

cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net


I'm guessing you don't use PowerPoint much.
 
2012-10-07 03:17:44 PM  
It's a nice key if you're gaming...
 
2012-10-07 03:18:05 PM  
I've often wondered why the little diskette icon is still used almost universally as save. it's been at least 15 years since diskettes were even relevant.
Unless you count installing windows server using a 3rd party scsi driver. goddam microsoft.
 
2012-10-07 03:26:37 PM  

Green Scorpio: I've often wondered why the little diskette icon is still used almost universally as save. it's been at least 15 years since diskettes were even relevant.
Unless you count installing windows server using a 3rd party scsi driver. goddam microsoft.


Unless you are installing Server 2003 or older, you should be using a USB key for that
 
2012-10-07 03:29:22 PM  
I am rather curious what the "hallucination key" in the side panel was used for.
 
2012-10-07 03:30:58 PM  
Why do outmoded keys, like ESC, persist? Our devices have legacies built into them. For more than a hundred years, when you wanted to write something, you sat down in front of a typewriter. But computers look different now - they're like smartphones. It will be interesting to see whether in 10 or 15 years the whole idea of a keyboard will seem strange. We might be saying, "Remember when we used to type things?"

How would we control computers in this future-without-typing? Think of the Wii and Kinect, or even specialized input devices for games like Guitar Hero or Dance Dance Revolution. All might be bellwethers for the rest of computing. We might see a rise in all sorts of input, like voice recognition and audio control - think about Siri.


-----

How about no?
 
2012-10-07 03:35:40 PM  
computers from different manufacturers communicated in a variety of codes. Bemer invented the ESC key as way for programmers to switch from one kind of code to another.

Maybe it's just me, but this explanation been dumbed down so much that I can't follow it anymore.
 
2012-10-07 03:43:46 PM  
It's been almost 30 years since we've had 101-key keyboards that removed the need for Num Lock. Enough already.
 
2012-10-07 03:44:02 PM  

APE992: Why do outmoded keys, like ESC, persist? Our devices have legacies built into them. For more than a hundred years, when you wanted to write something, you sat down in front of a typewriter. But computers look different now - they're like smartphones. It will be interesting to see whether in 10 or 15 years the whole idea of a keyboard will seem strange. We might be saying, "Remember when we used to type things?"

How would we control computers in this future-without-typing? Think of the Wii and Kinect, or even specialized input devices for games like Guitar Hero or Dance Dance Revolution. All might be bellwethers for the rest of computing. We might see a rise in all sorts of input, like voice recognition and audio control - think about Siri.


-----

How about no?


I'm inclined to think direct neural inputs. They have demonstrated machine-assisted telepathy in monkeys. I forget where I saw the study, I was in grad school at the time. Put blinders on a monkey, a camera on his head and a transcranial implant. Put another monkey with a transcranial implant in front of a monitor. Watch the second monkey direct the first monkey to food through the implants.

How soon this will actually be tested in humans is beyond me, but I'm very excited by its potential to utterly bring civilization to a grinding halt as we desperately try to keep our computers from surfing to inappropriate destinations every few seconds or sending unwitting UWIE to our co-workers.
 
2012-10-07 03:47:00 PM  
i.istockimg.com
 
2012-10-07 03:47:00 PM  
Back in the day, escape keys weren't on all keyboards. As an emacs user, I got used to ^[

/csb
//I'm old
 
2012-10-07 04:01:22 PM  

sinanju: Back in the day, escape keys weren't on all keyboards. As an emacs user, I got used to ^[

/csb
//I'm old


well i used Function 9 on my TI-99/4A
 
2012-10-07 04:04:29 PM  
s12.postimage.org

What about the "Pig Up" and "Katarl" keys?
 
2012-10-07 04:08:38 PM  

nmemkha: [s12.postimage.org image 400x300]

What about the "Pig Up" and "Katarl" keys?


no time 4 that the computers starting
 
2012-10-07 04:09:46 PM  

goatleggedfellow: Unless I get stuck in Firefox fullscreen, in which case I throw my computer on the ground and go buy a new one.


You too, huh?

Anyways, the escape key comes in handy from time to time.

The SysRq key, though? Or the AltGr?

/csb time. The Ctrl-Alt-Del used to be much more difficult when you couldn't substitute the AltGr for the Alt key.
 
2012-10-07 04:16:55 PM  
Meh Esc is still my go to button to get into a game's menu system to pause/save/quit etc, only blizzard seems to insist on using something different (F10).

NOW CAPSLOCK, THAT THERE IS A FANTASTIC BUTTON.
 
2012-10-07 04:18:10 PM  
Also,

i158.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-07 04:37:06 PM  

cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net


Someone never watches videos in full screen
 
2012-10-07 04:38:35 PM  
Also it's basically the same thing as the Back button on every android phone.
 
2012-10-07 04:43:37 PM  
My name is Annie Key.

Please don't hit me...
 
2012-10-07 04:46:15 PM  
The Esc key still has plenty of uses. Num Lock and Scroll Lock, not so much.
 
2012-10-07 04:49:40 PM  
Hit any key to quit, any other key to continue...
 
2012-10-07 04:52:58 PM  
Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?
 
2012-10-07 04:53:53 PM  

LemSkroob: cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net

for autoCAD is an essential command. In fact, my left ring finder sits over the ESC by default when i am drafting.


Same here, and for other 3D modeling and drafting software I use. It's handy to unselect objects without fear they will be part of the selection set of the next command. Funny I never thought about it as a default left-hand position, but I do the same as you.
 
2012-10-07 04:54:12 PM  

theorellior: The Esc key still has plenty of uses. Num Lock and Scroll Lock, not so much.


NumLock is useful, mostly for turning the numbers back on when someone turns them off.

Scroll Lock I've only ever used in Excel, and only about two or three times in my life.

The Pause/Break key used to be useful back in the DOS days. I doubt I've used it since the 1980s.

In 30 years of using PCs, I've never used the SysRq key.

www.simtropolis.com
 
2012-10-07 04:56:54 PM  

D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?


If you were an accountant, they would have to pry the numkeys from your cold, dead hands
 
2012-10-07 05:02:48 PM  
There are keys I don't use much, but Esc isn't one of them.
 
2012-10-07 05:02:51 PM  
Why are they describing the purpose of the BRK key in a story about ESC?
 
2012-10-07 05:12:52 PM  

D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?


You obviously don't work with numbers much. It's much faster to key in numbers on a numeric keypad.

/ Uses the ESC key all the time, too.
 
2012-10-07 05:13:33 PM  

cman: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

If you were an accountant, they would have to pry the numkeys from your cold, dead hands


Thanks for a graphic explanation.
 
2012-10-07 05:16:29 PM  

flaminio: In 30 years of using PCs, I've never used the SysRq key.


You've never taken a screenshot using that key?
 
2012-10-07 05:26:51 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Meh Esc is still my go to button to get into a game's menu system to pause/save/quit etc, only blizzard seems to insist on using something different (F10).

NOW CAPSLOCK, THAT THERE IS A FANTASTIC BUTTON.


But without the caps lock, how will people type capital letters?

//It drives me batshiat insane watching some people type in capital letters by hitting the caps lock, typing the single letter in their password or to start the sentence, then hit caps lock again to continue with their entry.

USE THE GODDAMN SHIFT key!
 
2012-10-07 05:30:01 PM  
There is a pretty good Rich Tennant cartoon for the escape key - Guy sitting at a computer with a tentacle coming out, wrapped around his head and neck, and another guy saying, something like, "Alice, very carefully, go over and press the 'Escape' key."
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-07 05:37:58 PM  
The Pause/Break key used to be useful back in the DOS days. I doubt I've used it since the 1980s.

Sending a "break" (sustained low level on the wire) used to be a way to smack the other end of a serial connection and suggest it try a different baud rate. I don't know if the break key ever sent a break.
 
2012-10-07 05:41:05 PM  
I keep thinking that one day I'll develop my own chorded keyboard system for sitting on the back of handheld devices. It will, of course, include control characters.
/First thing we do, let's kill all the lock keys
 
2012-10-07 05:43:30 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Meh Esc is still my go to button to get into a game's menu system to pause/save/quit etc, only blizzard seems to insist on using something different (F10).

NOW CAPSLOCK, THAT THERE IS A FANTASTIC BUTTON.


CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME?

TimeCubeFan: LemSkroob: cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net

for autoCAD is an essential command. In fact, my left ring finder sits over the ESC by default when i am drafting.

Same here, and for other 3D modeling and drafting software I use. It's handy to unselect objects without fear they will be part of the selection set of the next command. Funny I never thought about it as a default left-hand position, but I do the same as you.


After 20 years of ACAD, MDT and Inventor, it's pretty much a habit for me too. Sometimes I still go for CTRL+C if my left hand is on autopilot.
 
mhd
2012-10-07 05:44:30 PM  
Now for some keyboard pr0n:
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-07 05:46:04 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: flaminio: In 30 years of using PCs, I've never used the SysRq key.

You've never taken a screenshot using that key?


Sure, but that's a PrtScn, not a SysRq.
 
2012-10-07 05:48:19 PM  

mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]


JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE fark IS THAT?
 
2012-10-07 05:54:56 PM  

mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]


heheh hehehhehehhuhhuhhehehe, 'rub out', hehehehhhuuhhehehehehe.
 
2012-10-07 05:55:10 PM  
ESC is fine, so is Print Screen. But Scroll Lock and Pause/Break are just puzzling.
 
2012-10-07 05:56:03 PM  

cman: mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]

JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE fark IS THAT?


Its' got a 'rub out' key. Don't ask.
 
2012-10-07 05:57:18 PM  

cman: mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]

JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE fark IS THAT?


Standard issue girlfriend remote, what you didn't get one with yours?
 
2012-10-07 06:00:36 PM  
Does anyone use the shft, ctrl and alt keys on the right side?
 
2012-10-07 06:04:42 PM  

BumpInTheNight: cman: mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]

JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE fark IS THAT?

Standard issue girlfriend remote, what you didn't get one with yours?


I think it's gay. There's also a "Top" and "Greek" key.
 
2012-10-07 06:07:21 PM  

AlanSmithee: cman: mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]

JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE fark IS THAT?

Its' got a 'rub out' key. Don't ask.


u push it while it's watching porn and it spews white stuff out of the CD tray
 
2012-10-07 06:13:14 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: BumpInTheNight: cman: mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]

JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE fark IS THAT?

Standard issue girlfriend remote, what you didn't get one with yours?

I think it's gay. There's also a "Top" and "Greek" key.


Nah its all good just gotta bring it up a peg, works best when you 'lock mode'-asterisks-(digits 1-5)
when in rome...
 
2012-10-07 06:19:37 PM  

D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?


People in financial occupations often learn to touchtype on desktop printing calculators. The right middle finger rests on the 5, the index finger on 4, and the ring finger on the 6. With practice, they can type long columns of numbers accurately without looking at the keyboard.

That is why you can buy external numeric keypads for laptop computers. They also, sometimes, have little numbers scribbled on the laptop -- mine has 1 on J, 2 in K, 4 on U, 5 on I, etc. Then, with a certain function key combination, use can use it as a numeric keypad. It sucks. Too diagonal...
 
2012-10-07 06:21:32 PM  

mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]


What do those extra keys mean? I'll tell you what they mean -- they mean that you could make big bucks for knowing how to work with a mainframe or mini computer back in the old days...
 
2012-10-07 06:25:32 PM  
The break key is used while consoled into Cisco routers/switches during the devices start up to interrupt the boot process to perform a password recovery.

besides that....
 
2012-10-07 06:26:48 PM  

AlanSmithee: Does anyone use the shft, ctrl and alt keys on the right side?


Touch typist here and the right shift key is used quite often. Ctrl and Alt, not so much.
 
2012-10-07 06:28:06 PM  

D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?


I see things the other way. When I'm typing, I can just move my hand over and bang out numbers on the 10-key pad without looking down. There's no reason to have the retarded row of numbers above the main keyboard, so that you have to look down to peck out numbers, unless you're stuck on a laptop. They need to change that top row so you don't have to shift to access all the common symbols like $%@&!
 
2012-10-07 06:33:22 PM  
So what happens if you type Ctrl + Alt and the right arrow key on your computer? Anything interesting??
 
2012-10-07 06:36:19 PM  

D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?


"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"
 
2012-10-07 06:39:00 PM  

flaminio: theorellior: The Esc key still has plenty of uses. Num Lock and Scroll Lock, not so much.

NumLock is useful, mostly for turning the numbers back on when someone turns them off.

Scroll Lock I've only ever used in Excel, and only about two or three times in my life.

The Pause/Break key used to be useful back in the DOS days. I doubt I've used it since the 1980s.

In 30 years of using PCs, I've never used the SysRq key.

[www.simtropolis.com image 350x263]


I have, and still do. I won't waste time telling you what you can already look up.

A lot of this thread seems to be people complaining that something they're personally unfamiliar must therefore logically be obsolete, redundant, or useless. I'm here to tell you that the people who design, manufacture, and sell us these products include these features for a reason, and know what they're doing. If you don't know what it's for, that's fine. Don't assume just because you don't, it's stupid.
 
2012-10-07 06:40:19 PM  

Candygram4Mongo: So what happens if you type Ctrl + Alt and the right arrow key on your computer? Anything interesting??


If your screen turned sideways, Ctrl + Alt and the up arrow should return it back to normal

/works with some Intel and nVidia graphics cards
//not a bug, a feature
///but particularly a nice prank on the uninformed
 
2012-10-07 06:41:41 PM  

BizarreMan: BumpInTheNight: Meh Esc is still my go to button to get into a game's menu system to pause/save/quit etc, only blizzard seems to insist on using something different (F10).

NOW CAPSLOCK, THAT THERE IS A FANTASTIC BUTTON.

But without the caps lock, how will people type capital letters?

//It drives me batshiat insane watching some people type in capital letters by hitting the caps lock, typing the single letter in their password or to start the sentence, then hit caps lock again to continue with their entry.

USE THE GODDAMN SHIFT key!


I get why it might make you smile to yourself, maybe raise an eyebrow, or even, on a bad day, make you shake your head with dismay. But it drives you "batshiat insane," you need to switch to decaf.
 
2012-10-07 06:42:46 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"


Real jobs require a cash register?

/lulz
//rarely use the number pad
///rapidly inputting numbers isn't a real job, that's something I program a computer to do for me.
 
2012-10-07 06:45:36 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"

Real jobs require a cash register?

/lulz
//rarely use the number pad
///rapidly inputting numbers isn't a real job, that's something I program a computer to do for me.


I found the numpad pretty useful as keybinds for old arcade-style games. Also, ALT-Codes?!
 
2012-10-07 06:53:14 PM  
there are a few keys that i never use because i just dont find any reason to because like no one else does seriously have you been on facebook and like youtube obviously we have moved forwarda s a society and no longer need those keys anymore they are just for dumb dummies and olds who think that the value of a nidea is in some way tyed to the precision and amoiunt of error in the language that was used toi express it
 
2012-10-07 06:54:12 PM  

flaminio: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: flaminio: In 30 years of using PCs, I've never used the SysRq key.

You've never taken a screenshot using that key?

Sure, but that's a PrtScn, not a SysRq.


SysRq is 'system request,' and delivers an accompanying control code (defined by one or more other keys, according to preset bindings) to a low level of the system, which will have priority over running OS-level processes. It performs a function similar to ESC, except that instead of a single fixed code, it allows the user to deliver any of a larger number of discrete codes or series of codes. (Also, ESC often won't do anything useful in the worst cases, where SysRq still can.) In Linux, we use it most often to perform a soft forced reboot if the system goes into kernal panic or similarly enters an inescapable hang, loop, or halt. (Similar to BSD or equivalent major, OS-wide failure situations.)
 
2012-10-07 06:57:17 PM  

BizarreMan: AlanSmithee: Does anyone use the shft, ctrl and alt keys on the right side?

Touch typist here and the right shift key is used quite often. Ctrl and Alt, not so much.


The right-side duplicates serve two functions. Most commonly, they are used in combination with some right-side-only keys (such as SysRq) to perform special functions. Much less commonly, they are backups if the left-side ones fail, as they inevitably will if used enough, or you happened to spill something on that side.
 
2012-10-07 07:09:17 PM  

Candygram4Mongo: So what happens if you type Ctrl + Alt and the right arrow key on your computer? Anything interesting??


That combination can (or rather could) be used in sequence as a dedicated Web navigator. This is a legacy implentation from dating back to Win95, from Microsoft's now-defunct 'Media Web Partners' programme of that era, and only works with IE versions prior to 7, so it's *officially* 'impossible' to use now. However, community hacks have updated the callouts, and it supposedly works with a special third-party plugin I haven't bothered to look for. The callouts were different back in the day, but now it supposedly work like this: With control focus in IE, hit..

CTRL + ALT+ → takes you to National Review
" →→ (two strikes in rapid succession) takes you to Fox News
" →→→ -- Freep
" →→→→ -- WND
" →→→→→ -- InfoWars (a.k.a., the 'back around' callout)

There were also callouts for up, and left. Up-calls were mostly religious, as you'd expect, and were sposored, so probably none of them work anymore, (Though I can imagine hacks doing it just for the fun of it; maybe they go to ChristWire or something like that now.) Left-calls were like the above, and I'm not inclined to guess what they might be now, if they're still coded in any way. Left-one (one click) originally went to CPB. Down-calls were never officially allocated, but there have supposely been hacks for them all along. There's probably some Deep Web shiat on those now, if anything, probably a bad idea to try. (Again, assuming it even works, which it probably doesn't.)
 
2012-10-07 07:12:10 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"

Real jobs require a cash register?

/lulz
//rarely use the number pad
///rapidly inputting numbers isn't a real job, that's something I program a computer to do for me.


"I've also never had a real job, but I like to brag about it."
 
2012-10-07 07:12:21 PM  
The CTRL Key is much more important.
 
2012-10-07 07:14:49 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"

Real jobs require a cash register?

/lulz
//rarely use the number pad
///rapidly inputting numbers isn't a real job, that's something I program a computer to do for me.

"I've also never had a real job, but I like to brag about it."


I would like two orders of onion rings too please.
 
2012-10-07 07:23:18 PM  

D1551D3N7: cman: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

If you were an accountant, they would have to pry the numkeys from your cold, dead hands

Thanks for a graphic explanation.


It's a calculator
 
mhd
2012-10-07 07:36:48 PM  

cman: JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE fark IS THAT?


That's a keyboard for a Symbolics Lisp Machine, nickname "space cadet keyboard". Having dedicated keys for some functions was pretty common, Sun keyboards had "Undo" and "Help" buttons. And it's been coming back now, with the default "start menu" button or the non-standardized media/browser buttons on most non-office keyboards nowadays.

The scary thing about this specific keyboard is that a lot of those keys are modifiers. With your normal keyboard, you've got two of those, accessed with the shift key: lowercase, uppercase or number/symbol. International keyboards also have the "AltGr" key to access euro signs or weird national letters.
As you can see, this keyboard had additional symbols printed on each key, access with "top" or "front". Mostly mathematical symbols and typographical punctuation (similar to what you can do on Mac keyboards with the Alt key or the old C64 graphical symbols).

And then you've got Hyper/Super/Meta/Control, all used for keyboard combinations, like you use 'Control-C' to copy and 'Alt-F4' to close windows. Apparently quite often used together, so you could e.g. be told to press "Hyper-Meta-S" to do something.
Although we're getting closer to that again. For a long time it was Control and Alt only, now you've got your Windows key, too (and of course on Macs you always had Command, Alt and Control).

What we're using right now is the 'AT' layout (plus Windows keys), something introduced with the eponymous IBM PC. Before that, even PC keyboards varied widely, and terminal/workstation keyboards even more. If I remember correctly, the first Amstrad PCs had Control and Alt where the capslock key is nowadays, and the XT had Control there, as did Sun workstation keyboards. Which is why some shortcuts are a bit awkward nowadays.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-07 07:40:54 PM  
After you've read mhd's explanation, you will understand emacs a little better. Not how to use it, but why RMS thought people enjoyed playing keyboard chords.
 
2012-10-07 07:42:59 PM  

DrPainMD: The CTRL Key is much more important.


I agree, which is why I can't understand why they ever took it off the home row. IBM and their damn 5150. They broke more standards with that thing...
 
2012-10-07 07:46:47 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: flaminio: theorellior: The Esc key still has plenty of uses. Num Lock and Scroll Lock, not so much.

NumLock is useful, mostly for turning the numbers back on when someone turns them off.

Scroll Lock I've only ever used in Excel, and only about two or three times in my life.

The Pause/Break key used to be useful back in the DOS days. I doubt I've used it since the 1980s.

In 30 years of using PCs, I've never used the SysRq key.

[www.simtropolis.com image 350x263]

I have, and still do. I won't waste time telling you what you can already look up.

A lot of this thread seems to be people complaining that something they're personally unfamiliar must therefore logically be obsolete, redundant, or useless. I'm here to tell you that the people who design, manufacture, and sell us these products include these features for a reason, and know what they're doing. If you don't know what it's for, that's fine. Don't assume just because you don't, it's stupid.


That's some Grade A Butthurt there. Aside from the fact that we're just talking about a key on a keyboard, where did I ever say it was stupid? I just said I haven't used it.

What's even more funny is that you say you won't waste time telling me what it does, and then in your follow-up post you do exactly that. Thanks for the explanation, I guess.
 
2012-10-07 07:53:27 PM  
What was the @ for before email?


/grew up before email, never used it.
 
2012-10-07 07:57:19 PM  

stuhayes2010: What was the @ for before email?


/grew up before email, never used it.


It was an abbreviation for "at", as in "6 widgets @ $1.00"
Link
 
2012-10-07 08:18:27 PM  
hight3ch.com

surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. The most worthless and sadistically evil key in existence.
 
2012-10-07 08:27:43 PM  
I've spent too much on keyboards I like, and learned to how to use them too well, to drop them for voice input or the like. But I'd still spend plenty on yet another keyboard if I could find one that had (as mentioned above) the CTRL key on the home row, hard-wired in, rather than something that would have to be remapped via software. A good keyboard is worth every $0.01.
 
2012-10-07 08:50:34 PM  

stuhayes2010: What was the @ for before email?


/grew up before email, never used it.


@
 
2012-10-07 08:58:04 PM  

feanorn: I've spent too much on keyboards I like, and learned to how to use them too well, to drop them for voice input or the like. But I'd still spend plenty on yet another keyboard if I could find one that had (as mentioned above) the CTRL key on the home row, hard-wired in, rather than something that would have to be remapped via software. A good keyboard is worth every $0.01.


I'd like to try to learn Dvorak, myself. I'm a touch typist, but I've heard many times that Dvorak is better, once you learn it. I'm reluctant to change my keybindings, in case I get lost and might have trouble getting back, but there are Dvorak keyboards out there that I could try.
 
2012-10-07 09:29:56 PM  

Plant Rights Activist: [hight3ch.com image 400x261]

surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. The most worthless and sadistically evil key in existence.


Actually, there's a lot of neat Windows+Letter combinations, like Win+L, Win+R, etc. And games trap the Start menu call nowadays to prevent fullscreen meltdowns. (My wife used to physically pry the key of a few of her keyboards 10 years ago, though. Stuff like Asheron's Call wouldn't play nice with the Win key.)
 
2012-10-07 09:39:24 PM  
i172.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-07 10:11:23 PM  

mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]


Okay the Rub Out button must have been implemented shortly after they invented internet porn.
 
2012-10-07 10:14:32 PM  
I don't always interrupt processes...
imageshack.us
but when I do, I use the Esc key.
 
2012-10-07 10:19:15 PM  

red5ish: I don't always interrupt processes...
[imageshack.us image 283x178]
but when I do, I use the Esc key.


Weird I use the break key.

/long time ago I worked at a tele-surveying company and their program completely destroyed itself if you did a ctrl-C at any point. It was great for the lulz if you wanted to break early.
 
2012-10-07 10:21:56 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Why are they describing the purpose of the BRK key in a story about ESC?


They've never heard of current-loop circuit Teletypes.
 
2012-10-07 11:18:21 PM  

theorellior: The Esc key still has plenty of uses. Num Lock and Scroll Lock, not so much.


Oh? How do you unlock your scrolls?
 
2012-10-07 11:23:34 PM  

flaminio: In 30 years of using PCs, I've never used the SysRq key.


I don't use the key itself, but I did borrow the words for my new club name, DJ SYS RQ.

stuhayes2010: What was the @ for before email?


/grew up before email, never used it.


The anus in ASCII porn.
 
2012-10-07 11:26:57 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: AlanSmithee: cman: mhd: Now for some keyboard pr0n:
[i.imgur.com image 485x474]

JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE fark IS THAT?

Its' got a 'rub out' key. Don't ask.

u push it while it's watching porn and it spews white stuff out of the CD tray


CD Tray!?!?!? You mean the cup holder?
 
2012-10-07 11:31:23 PM  
Who made the escape key?
An underpaid kid in China.
 
2012-10-08 12:00:00 AM  
Some of us still have to use use UNIX subby.

/Unfortunately. State of the art supercomputer/cluster. Command-line interface. Meh.
 
2012-10-08 12:14:47 AM  
But computers look different now - they're like smartphones. It will be interesting to see whether in 10 or 15 years the whole idea of a keyboard will seem strange. We might be saying, "Remember when we used to type things?"

Oh, FFS, THIS crap again? Look, we're going to use keyboards. How else are we going to get data into the computer? Mind melds? Voice recognition is still flaky, nobody wants an office full of people screaming(more) at their computers, and I can type data into my laptop right now, sitting in bed watching TV without waking up my wife. I can also type in a public place, or while watching TV without disturbing everyone around me.

What about touchscreens, you say? Well, nobody wants to type on a flat piece of glass for any length of time. People who enter data with any regularity want a keyboard with tactile keys, they want their fingertips to fit into the scallops on top, they want to be able to touch type. With no physical keys for response, people won't be able to touch type for shiat.

Face it, the keyboard isn't going anywhere. The alternatives are nice for emails, texts and web searches, but for serious data entry of any kind, a physical keyboard is still the way to go. They may change in design, but they'll still be keyboards. Same goes for the mouse. As old as it is, it's still a pretty intuitive and accurate form of input. If you want to go the pure touchscreen route, you're going to need a stylus to get the precision even a cheap mouse can offer. Our fingers are just too fat. You'd think someone who typed blogs, supposedly for a living, would understand all of this.

As for the 'Escape' key, I use it all of the time. I use it when I expand a video to full screen, and I use it in gaming, just to name a few. I'm with the person upthread; If you're going to get rid of any key, get rid of the farking 'Insert' key, I don't know the last time I used it, except for when the default 'Insert' feature accidentally gets turned off. If the stupid key wasn't there, people would quit accidentally turning it off. I've never heard of anyone needing to turn it off.
 
2012-10-08 12:29:07 AM  

Plant Rights Activist: [hight3ch.com image 400x261]

surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. The most worthless and sadistically evil key in existence.


I wish it worked like the Apple "command" key. That way I could copy (command-C) and terminate (control-C) in a terminal window on Windows and Linux without using nonstandard shortcuts.

Sadly, the Windows/meta key does not work that way.
 
DYI
2012-10-08 12:44:11 AM  
Ithinkweshoulddoawaywiththatpeskyspacebar.Seriously,thinkaboutallthesp acewecouldsaveifwedidn'tuseit!
 
2012-10-08 12:46:05 AM  

semiotix: flaminio: In 30 years of using PCs, I've never used the SysRq key.

I don't use the key itself, but I did borrow the words for my new club name, DJ SYS RQ.

stuhayes2010: What was the @ for before email?


/grew up before email, never used it.

The anus in ASCII porn.


Also, stoner eyes.

@.@
 
2012-10-08 12:50:45 AM  

Mikey1969: But computers look different now - they're like smartphones. It will be interesting to see whether in 10 or 15 years the whole idea of a keyboard will seem strange. We might be saying, "Remember when we used to type things?"

Oh, FFS, THIS crap again? Look, we're going to use keyboards. How else are we going to get data into the computer? Mind melds? Voice recognition is still flaky, nobody wants an office full of people screaming(more) at their computers, and I can type data into my laptop right now, sitting in bed watching TV without waking up my wife. I can also type in a public place, or while watching TV without disturbing everyone around me.

What about touchscreens, you say? Well, nobody wants to type on a flat piece of glass for any length of time. People who enter data with any regularity want a keyboard with tactile keys, they want their fingertips to fit into the scallops on top, they want to be able to touch type. With no physical keys for response, people won't be able to touch type for shiat.

Face it, the keyboard isn't going anywhere. The alternatives are nice for emails, texts and web searches, but for serious data entry of any kind, a physical keyboard is still the way to go. They may change in design, but they'll still be keyboards. Same goes for the mouse. As old as it is, it's still a pretty intuitive and accurate form of input. If you want to go the pure touchscreen route, you're going to need a stylus to get the precision even a cheap mouse can offer. Our fingers are just too fat. You'd think someone who typed blogs, supposedly for a living, would understand all of this.

As for the 'Escape' key, I use it all of the time. I use it when I expand a video to full screen, and I use it in gaming, just to name a few. I'm with the person upthread; If you're going to get rid of any key, get rid of the farking 'Insert' key, I don't know the last time I used it, except for when the default 'Insert' feature accidentally gets turned off. If the stupid key ...


Thanks for saying all this. People forget that the most important component in any user system -- the human -- is not going to change design for a very long time to come, and all our tools need to be compatible with us. We'll always have ass-holders to sit on, stuff-holders to put stuff on, grabby-things to hold and control stuff with, looky-see things to look at stuff with, and so on. For those proficient at it, tactile typing is very efficient, and there's no reason to change that system, unless somone comes up with something that really is better. I won't say that's impossible, but touchscreens definitely aren't it.
 
2012-10-08 12:52:17 AM  

DYI: Ithinkweshoulddoawaywiththatpeskyspacebar.Seriously,thinkaboutallthes p acewecouldsaveifwedidn'tuseit!


I the same way about verbs. I they not so necessary.
 
2012-10-08 01:46:13 AM  
I'm never able to get ALT+F4 to work as designed. I heard it only works on old versions of Windows -- it was always handy. Do the new versions of Windows use it?

/ Casting...
// OK, so 2000...
 
2012-10-08 02:35:37 AM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"


I've worked every day of my life and have worked helluva lot harder than you ever will. I merely asked a question. No need for rude remarks.
 
2012-10-08 02:47:39 AM  

flaminio: NumLock is useful, mostly for turning the numbers back on when someone turns them off.


If they did away with the key you wouldn't ever need to undo the stupidity. It was a fine idea when we didn't have dedicated directional keys. But that was 2 generations (people generations, not computer generations) ago. The key could just go away and whatever 87-year-old is still using it on his 87-key-keyboard can deal with it for the benefit of literally every other computer user.
 
mhd
2012-10-08 03:35:51 AM  

Plant Rights Activist: surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. The most worthless and sadistically evil key in existence.


Well, it does make using PC keyboards on Macs easier...
(I once had a Model M hooked up, and got by with remapping Ctrl->Alt, Alt->Cmd and CapsLock->Ctrl)

/and yay, another modifier key. Great for some editors or window management functions.
//Only thing I use it under Windows is Win+R and Win-[arrow keys]
 
2012-10-08 04:11:44 AM  

mhd: Well, it does make using PC keyboards on Macs easier...
(I once had a Model M hooked up, and got by with remapping Ctrl->Alt, Alt->Cmd and CapsLock->Ctrl)


FYI: In modern OS X you can remap the modifiers without even leaving the GUI (and you if you're willing to type things there are various remappings available under the default driver all the way back to 10.2).
 
2012-10-08 04:17:11 AM  
Why do people continue to insist on linking to NYTimes articles, when 99.95% of people viewing the link lack the subscription to view the article?

I, for one, would welcome a Fark-wide ban on any website that is behind a paywall.
 
mhd
2012-10-08 04:33:21 AM  

profplump: FYI: In modern OS X you can remap the modifiers without even leaving the GUI


That's what I did. My Model M escapade was fairly recent (10.5ish), after I finally broke my Extended II keyboard.

I'm still perplexed that some people that aren't Fortran programmers actually use the CapsLock key enough to warrant such a prominent location.
 
2012-10-08 04:39:56 AM  

goatleggedfellow: Get rid of the damn Insert key!


This. You accidentally bump it, and then spend the next 30 seconds trying to figure out WTF is wrong with your keyboard.

Escape gets me out of fullscreen and I use it. Unless I get stuck in Firefox fullscreen, in which case I throw my computer on the ground and go buy a new one.

and OMG so much THIS.
 
2012-10-08 04:54:45 AM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: I'd like to try to learn Dvorak, myself. I'm a touch typist, but I've heard many times that Dvorak is better, once you learn it. I'm reluctant to change my keybindings, in case I get lost and might have trouble getting back, but there are Dvorak keyboards out there that I could try.


If you use Windows, you can remap your keyboard to Dvorak quite easily. Just go to "Regions and Languages". When I lived in France and was typing a lot of email in two different languages, I had it set up so that three quick presses on the Shift key automatically switched from ENG to FR and back.

BTW, I bit the bullet and learned the Dvorak keyboard also about 10 years ago. It's marginally less work for your fingers, because so many words can be typed on the home row, but it's not really significantly faster in my experience. Maybe if you already type 100wpm or something, you might see some improvement from efficiency, but it's a pointless exercise for most people if you already know QWERTY.
 
2012-10-08 09:28:11 AM  
Incredible that journalists are getting so lazy (and/or stupid) that they can't even do a 0.25 second google...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_character#ASCII_escape_character

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascii
 
2012-10-08 10:16:08 AM  

D1551D3N7: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"

I've worked every day of my life and have worked helluva lot harder than you ever will. I merely asked a question. No need for rude remarks.


Something doesn't jibe with your answer. A responsible, thinking grown-up wouldn't need to ask what a number pad is for.
 
2012-10-08 10:30:56 AM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"

I've worked every day of my life and have worked helluva lot harder than you ever will. I merely asked a question. No need for rude remarks.

Something doesn't jibe with your answer. A responsible, thinking grown-up wouldn't need to ask what a number pad is for.


Seriously. Never seen a calculator or a telephone?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-08 10:53:58 AM  
rekabis

The Lords of Fark do block sites that cause excessive registration requests. Opinions vary as to which sites those are. A site that blocks you 99.95% of the time might always let me in.  NYT seems to be good enough for normal people. They might allow X free clicks per month, or let people in who are sent via Fark, but only if your cookie and proxy settings are "correct."
 
2012-10-08 10:55:18 AM  
As an Excel user, they can have my scroll lock key when they pry it from my cold dead hands. Also, insert is pretty handy when you work with the same cover sheets every day. What I would like is dedicated copy/cut/paste buttons above the number pad.
 
2012-10-08 10:58:34 AM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"

I've worked every day of my life and have worked helluva lot harder than you ever will. I merely asked a question. No need for rude remarks.

Something doesn't jibe with your answer. A responsible, thinking grown-up wouldn't need to ask what a number pad is for.


I'm still waiting on those onion rings.

A responsible thinking adult would see this is a thread about darwin'ed keys on keyboards and how the number pad's purpose can easily be shifted to a dedicated num-pad USB input for accountants and data entry specialists, thus allowing keyboards to hack off a third of their desk real-estate at penalty to no one.
 
2012-10-08 10:59:50 AM  

profplump: flaminio: NumLock is useful, mostly for turning the numbers back on when someone turns them off.

If they did away with the key you wouldn't ever need to undo the stupidity. It was a fine idea when we didn't have dedicated directional keys. But that was 2 generations (people generations, not computer generations) ago. The key could just go away and whatever 87-year-old is still using it on his 87-key-keyboard can deal with it for the benefit of literally every other computer user.


You're better than this. I know you are, because I've seen you be better than this. You're just insulting yourself with this petty snipe. I'm not going to burn up a lot of keyboard detailing what's wrong with what you've said, but I believe you're smart enough to figure it out yourself. At least, I hope you are, because I honestly like you, even when you disappoint me at times like this.
 
2012-10-08 11:09:14 AM  

Z-clipped: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: I'd like to try to learn Dvorak, myself. I'm a touch typist, but I've heard many times that Dvorak is better, once you learn it. I'm reluctant to change my keybindings, in case I get lost and might have trouble getting back, but there are Dvorak keyboards out there that I could try.

If you use Windows, you can remap your keyboard to Dvorak quite easily. Just go to "Regions and Languages". When I lived in France and was typing a lot of email in two different languages, I had it set up so that three quick presses on the Shift key automatically switched from ENG to FR and back.

BTW, I bit the bullet and learned the Dvorak keyboard also about 10 years ago. It's marginally less work for your fingers, because so many words can be typed on the home row, but it's not really significantly faster in my experience. Maybe if you already type 100wpm or something, you might see some improvement from efficiency, but it's a pointless exercise for most people if you already know QWERTY.


Thank you. You probably saved me some needless hardship. The way some people talk about it, Dvorak is a panacea for anyone who wants to type a lot, and I often do. I'm a QWERTY touch-typist, rated to around 45 wpm in an official test (of about, um, fifteen years ago). In reality, it varies a lot, but I think I'm usually under that. And yeah, I really don't want to learn a new method, if the one I already know is good enough.

I use mostly Linux. but also work with Windows a lot. I haven't used Mac much since OS7 or thereabouts. (The transparent cube era.) In respect to keybindings, though specific controls will vary, I feel sure they're all about the same with that.
 
2012-10-08 11:14:00 AM  

geezergeek: Incredible that journalists are getting so lazy (and/or stupid) that they can't even do a 0.25 second google...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_character#ASCII_escape_character

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascii


I agree, but not that specifically. This seems like a culture-wide phenomenon at this point. People just can't be bothered to look stuff up for themselves, but are happy to project their ignorant assumptions or puzzlement, as if that shouldn't be embarrassing, or ask a roomful of online strangers instead, as if that might be a more credible source. I don't know if it's just laziness, or, in the latter case, if it's people's apparent (and to me, inexplicable) addiction to social interaction, or what. But at this point, disappointing as it is, it's no longer suprising that people just don't look things up.
 
2012-10-08 11:15:16 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"

I've worked every day of my life and have worked helluva lot harder than you ever will. I merely asked a question. No need for rude remarks.

Something doesn't jibe with your answer. A responsible, thinking grown-up wouldn't need to ask what a number pad is for.

Seriously. Never seen a calculator or a telephone?


Come on. You're smarter than that, aren't you?
 
2012-10-08 11:17:18 AM  

Big Merl: As an Excel user, they can have my scroll lock key when they pry it from my cold dead hands. Also, insert is pretty handy when you work with the same cover sheets every day. What I would like is dedicated copy/cut/paste buttons above the number pad.


Well, I normally use CTRL+C/V, so that's two keys, nearly as good. I really wouldn't want to junk up the keyboard too much, but I get where you're coming from.
 
2012-10-08 11:20:07 AM  

BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"

I've worked every day of my life and have worked helluva lot harder than you ever will. I merely asked a question. No need for rude remarks.

Something doesn't jibe with your answer. A responsible, thinking grown-up wouldn't need to ask what a number pad is for.

I'm still waiting on those onion rings.

A responsible thinking adult would see this is a thread about darwin'ed keys on keyboards and how the number pad's purpose can easily be shifted to a dedicated num-pad USB input for accountants and data entry specialists, thus allowing keyboards to hack off a third of their desk real-estate at penalty to no one.


Kid, if you were half as clever as you think you are, you'd be ten times as clever as you really are. I don't often say this, but you're not merely being an ass here: you're actually just plain wrong.
 
2012-10-08 11:35:38 AM  

Mikey1969: But computers look different now - they're like smartphones. It will be interesting to see whether in 10 or 15 years the whole idea of a keyboard will seem strange. We might be saying, "Remember when we used to type things?"

Oh, FFS, THIS crap again? Look, we're going to use keyboards. How else are we going to get data into the computer? Mind melds? Voice recognition is still flaky, nobody wants an office full of people screaming(more) at their computers, and I can type data into my laptop right now, sitting in bed watching TV without waking up my wife. I can also type in a public place, or while watching TV without disturbing everyone around me.

What about touchscreens, you say? Well, nobody wants to type on a flat piece of glass for any length of time. People who enter data with any regularity want a keyboard with tactile keys, they want their fingertips to fit into the scallops on top, they want to be able to touch type. With no physical keys for response, people won't be able to touch type for shiat.

Face it, the keyboard isn't going anywhere. The alternatives are nice for emails, texts and web searches, but for serious data entry of any kind, a physical keyboard is still the way to go. They may change in design, but they'll still be keyboards. Same goes for the mouse. As old as it is, it's still a pretty intuitive and accurate form of input. If you want to go the pure touchscreen route, you're going to need a stylus to get the precision even a cheap mouse can offer. Our fingers are just too fat. You'd think someone who typed blogs, supposedly for a living, would understand all of this.

As for the 'Escape' key, I use it all of the time. I use it when I expand a video to full screen, and I use it in gaming, just to name a few. I'm with the person upthread; If you're going to get rid of any key, get rid of the farking 'Insert' key, I don't know the last time I used it, except for when the default 'Insert' feature accidentally gets turned off. If the stupid key ...


This.

As someone who's forged a meager supplementary income from writing, trying to write at length on a touchscreen or through voice recognition software would be a nightmare. As you said, the tactile response from the keyboard is a tool in and of itself. Most (if not all) people who type want that.

As for voice recognition; even if it is perfected at some point, I've found the act of physically typing something out is a tool in terms of composition. Perhaps it's just a personal quirk of mine, but, I find it easier to compose a sentence by typing it out physically as opposed to speaking it out. People don't speak using the same language they do when they type and I suspect there may be some sort of gap to bridge there, which requires some extra effort. Of course, a quick glance at any message board shows there are people whose minds work exclusively in the confines of the 'text speak' grammar graveyard.

I've toyed with voice recognition software, and beyond the bugs, I find it far more difficult to find the right words and rearrange the structure of a sentence (or paragraph) if I'm not hammering away at the keys. There's a lot of rearranging and experimentation going on when I write and it's an effortless process on a keyboard. Voice recognition software feels like an unnecessary step in that process.
 
2012-10-08 11:36:43 AM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Big Merl: As an Excel user, they can have my scroll lock key when they pry it from my cold dead hands. Also, insert is pretty handy when you work with the same cover sheets every day. What I would like is dedicated copy/cut/paste buttons above the number pad.

Well, I normally use CTRL+C/V, so that's two keys, nearly as good. I really wouldn't want to junk up the keyboard too much, but I get where you're coming from.


I frequently have one hand on the number pad and the other on the mouse, perhaps I could get a gaming mouse and bind some keys... To the it department!
 
2012-10-08 11:41:12 AM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Kid, if you were half as clever as you think you are, you'd be ten times as clever as you really are. I don't often say this, but you're not merely being an ass here: you're actually just plain wrong.


You are now farkied as 'keyboard hipster' :P
 
2012-10-08 12:04:52 PM  

Big Merl: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Big Merl: As an Excel user, they can have my scroll lock key when they pry it from my cold dead hands. Also, insert is pretty handy when you work with the same cover sheets every day. What I would like is dedicated copy/cut/paste buttons above the number pad.

Well, I normally use CTRL+C/V, so that's two keys, nearly as good. I really wouldn't want to junk up the keyboard too much, but I get where you're coming from.

I frequently have one hand on the number pad and the other on the mouse, perhaps I could get a gaming mouse and bind some keys... To the it department!


Hmm. I feel sure there should be a keybinding workaround. Maybe one of the F-keys? Most operating systems should allow that, though the game, as an application, might assign its own. But I'd assume that any it doesn't will default to the OS settings, and you should be able to reassign those without interfering with the game. INS would be an obvious one-finger choice for 'paste'. Depending on your layout, any other nearby key might be a good candidate for 'copy'.
 
mhd
2012-10-08 12:13:53 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Hmm. I feel sure there should be a keybinding workaround.


Remap some keys when the NumLock is off. + to copy, - cut, enter paste. Should be pretty trivial with something like AutoHotKey.
 
2012-10-08 12:14:53 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Kid, if you were half as clever as you think you are, you'd be ten times as clever as you really are. I don't often say this, but you're not merely being an ass here: you're actually just plain wrong.

You are now farkied as 'keyboard hipster' :P


No, hipsters are way cooler than I'll ever be. I know that because I used to live in a city full of them, and it was obvious they didn't think I was cool. S'okay, though, we got along anyway, more or less. Well, except in the truly uber-cool settings, but that's okay, too; everyone needs their own space, after all. I wasn't impressed, but I didn't hold it against them, and I doubt they judged me, either.

What I did learn over the years, though, is that the world is a huge* and weird and wonderful place, and there is no such thing as objective normality. That's a lesson that I think everone needs to learn and embrace, because it seems to me that that assumption of normality is key to an awful lot of needless unpleasantness in the world.

* It's also extremely tiny, and that's very important for all of us to appreciate, too.
 
2012-10-08 12:21:13 PM  

mhd: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Hmm. I feel sure there should be a keybinding workaround.

Remap some keys when the NumLock is off. + to copy, - cut, enter paste. Should be pretty trivial with something like AutoHotKey.

Yes, that's better than what I suggested. Of course, to do that, we'll need to have the number pad and NumLock key that were already declared extraneous in this thread as useless legacy baggage that only old stupid people want. But perhaps those claims were shortsighted.

 
2012-10-08 12:26:43 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Kid, if you were half as clever as you think you are, you'd be ten times as clever as you really are. I don't often say this, but you're not merely being an ass here: you're actually just plain wrong.

You are now farkied as 'keyboard hipster' :P

No, hipsters are way cooler than I'll ever be. I know that because I used to live in a city full of them, and it was obvious they didn't think I was cool. S'okay, though, we got along anyway, more or less. Well, except in the truly uber-cool settings, but that's okay, too; everyone needs their own space, after all. I wasn't impressed, but I didn't hold it against them, and I doubt they judged me, either.

What I did learn over the years, though, is that the world is a huge* and weird and wonderful place, and there is no such thing as objective normality. That's a lesson that I think everone needs to learn and embrace, because it seems to me that that assumption of normality is key to an awful lot of needless unpleasantness in the world.

* It's also extremely tiny, and that's very important for all of us to appreciate, too.


'keyboard snob'?

I really want to embrace the 'insists some obscure concept is critical yet can't be bothered to explain themself yet goes to great lengths to berate anyone who 'doesn't get it''.
 
mhd
2012-10-08 12:34:46 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Of course, to do that, we'll need to have the number pad and NumLock key that were already declared extraneous in this thread as useless legacy baggage that only old stupid people want. But perhaps those claims were shortsighted.


Well, I think I saw some kind of prototype keyboard where you could arrange buttons on a conductive base plate, so you still have proper haptic feedback, but touchscreen-like freedom. And, speaking of touchscreens, there were those PowerBook replacement keyboards that basically were one big touchpad. I think Apple bought them and the technology is now in their mobile devices.
Sun keyboards did have dedicated Copy/Paste keys in two rows left of the main area.

And there are some copy/paste versions using just mouse keys, from extra buttons, to the Unix version of every select being a copy and the middle mouse button (remember that?) used to paste. The Plan 9 OS used "mouse chords" to copy/past, so e.g. while selecting something with your left mouse button, it was cut if you pressed the middle button at the same time, and pressing the left and right pasted it.

Extra keys don't hurt. Useless keys do, so remapping is always a good option. The main reason for removing keys would probably be less distance between your right hand and your mouse, so switching back and forth doesn't require so much movement.
 
2012-10-08 12:43:34 PM  

TimeCubeFan: LemSkroob: cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net

for autoCAD is an essential command. In fact, my left ring finder sits over the ESC by default when i am drafting.

Same here, and for other 3D modeling and drafting software I use. It's handy to unselect objects without fear they will be part of the selection set of the next command. Funny I never thought about it as a default left-hand position, but I do the same as you.



Yeah, its a safety measure. always have to close the last command before starting a new one. Its reflex, i dont even notice doing it. it just happens.
 
2012-10-08 12:50:56 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Kid, if you were half as clever as you think you are, you'd be ten times as clever as you really are. I don't often say this, but you're not merely being an ass here: you're actually just plain wrong.

You are now farkied as 'keyboard hipster' :P

No, hipsters are way cooler than I'll ever be. I know that because I used to live in a city full of them, and it was obvious they didn't think I was cool. S'okay, though, we got along anyway, more or less. Well, except in the truly uber-cool settings, but that's okay, too; everyone needs their own space, after all. I wasn't impressed, but I didn't hold it against them, and I doubt they judged me, either.

What I did learn over the years, though, is that the world is a huge* and weird and wonderful place, and there is no such thing as objective normality. That's a lesson that I think everone needs to learn and embrace, because it seems to me that that assumption of normality is key to an awful lot of needless unpleasantness in the world.

* It's also extremely tiny, and that's very important for all of us to appreciate, too.

'keyboard snob'?

I really want to embrace the 'insists some obscure concept is critical yet can't be bothered to explain themself yet goes to great lengths to berate anyone who 'doesn't get it''.


You're trying hard to insult me or hurt my feelings, but you're using the wrong approach. For starters, I mostly ignore anything that's poorly written, so I suggest working on that.
 
2012-10-08 01:13:54 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: You're trying hard to insult me or hurt my feelings, but you're using the wrong approach. For starters, I mostly ignore anything that's poorly written, so I suggest working on that.


Yes, clearly I'm the one focused on insults rather then carrying a conversation forward in this thread.
/howtoannoyenglishmajors.jpg
 
2012-10-08 01:31:02 PM  

LemSkroob: cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net

for autoCAD is an essential command. In fact, my left ring finder sits over the ESC by default when i am drafting.


THIS
 
2012-10-08 01:53:00 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: You're trying hard to insult me or hurt my feelings, but you're using the wrong approach. For starters, I mostly ignore anything that's poorly written, so I suggest working on that.

Yes, clearly I'm the one focused on insults rather then carrying a conversation forward in this thread.
/howtoannoyenglishmajors.jpg


Yeah, well, actually that's kind of true. If you go back over the thread, you mostly just toss out passive-agressive insults. Which is a very Canadian thing to do, I understand that. I'm a New Englander, and I've been to Canada a bunch of times, so I'm familiar with this. And I have to say, it gets tired fast. Here, we just tell it like it is, for better or worse. You're making of ass out of yourself, starting with assuming that your normality is or should be everyone else's, that what doesn't make sense to you doesn't make sense objectively, and so on. That's a very common conceit of young people who haven't seen enough of the rest of the world yet. I mean, what goes through your head when you hear Americans jeer at milk in a bag and say it's stupid? See what I'm getting at?
 
2012-10-08 02:25:10 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: BumpInTheNight: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: You're trying hard to insult me or hurt my feelings, but you're using the wrong approach. For starters, I mostly ignore anything that's poorly written, so I suggest working on that.

Yes, clearly I'm the one focused on insults rather then carrying a conversation forward in this thread.
/howtoannoyenglishmajors.jpg

Yeah, well, actually that's kind of true. If you go back over the thread, you mostly just toss out passive-agressive insults. Which is a very Canadian thing to do, I understand that. I'm a New Englander, and I've been to Canada a bunch of times, so I'm familiar with this. And I have to say, it gets tired fast. Here, we just tell it like it is, for better or worse. You're making of ass out of yourself, starting with assuming that your normality is or should be everyone else's, that what doesn't make sense to you doesn't make sense objectively, and so on. That's a very common conceit of young people who haven't seen enough of the rest of the world yet. I mean, what goes through your head when you hear Americans jeer at milk in a bag and say it's stupid? See what I'm getting at?


ohyourseriousletmelaughharder.jpg
 
2012-10-08 09:32:56 PM  

D1551D3N7: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: D1551D3N7: Can someone explain what the numpad is for? The numbers are already above the letters why waste space on more numbers?

"I've never had a real job. Can anyone tell?"

I've worked every day of my life and have worked helluva lot harder than you ever will. I merely asked a question. No need for rude remarks.

 

t2.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-09 06:03:54 AM  
well, for the argument i didn't see the question answered:

the num pad exists to serve accountants, one of the primary early consumers of home pcs, and the key-arrangements they're accustomed to. in ages yet older than that, there were even keyboards with 0-9 keys for each digit of a number so someone could for example use 4 fingers and type 44.95 simultaneously. long story short, the reason is the numbers above the letters aren't arranged in a way convenient for people who are entering a lot of numbers.

now why now knowing that is supposed to symbolize you don't work hard, i don't get. there's a hell of a lot of ditch-diggers who don't know the ways of the white collar office.
 
2012-10-09 09:16:44 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: cman: Ahh, the escape key. Last time it held any sort of relevancy was in a 1994 film called The Net

Or when I worked at UPS and they used an AS/400 networked to a bunch of PCs. Pressing ESC twice gave me access to the supervisor or whatever it was called. I was able to reboot workstations at random and send messages to all, etc. The IT bigwigs came up from Paramus to interrogate me since it was "impossible" to do what I did...


Real fun being had here since, I thought my work was the only one in exsistance still using as400.
 
2012-10-09 02:43:31 PM  

fatkidinabeenie: I thought my work was the only one in exsistance still using as400.


A lot of places are, actually, as the hardware is pretty close to indestructible, and technology decisions are still being made by people who live by the maxim "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" from 30 years ago.
 
2012-10-09 02:53:17 PM  
It maybe the only

poot_rootbeer: fatkidinabeenie: I thought my work was the only one in exsistance still using as400.

A lot of places are, actually, as the hardware is pretty close to indestructible, and technology decisions are still being made by people who live by the maxim "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" from 30 years ago.


It just maybe the only system that will still run our billing software also.
 
hej
2012-10-09 11:33:11 PM  

Plant Rights Activist: [hight3ch.com image 400x261]

surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. The most worthless and sadistically evil key in existence.


I use it all the time for launching apps and shutting down my machine.
 
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