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(Telegraph)   Suck it, haters - the UK's socialized health system only let 43 people starve to death in their hospitals last year. And the number who died of thirst? Only 111. And if granny's in hospital, she'll usually be fed. Half the time. Luxury   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 185
    More: Fail, Patients Association, health system, Office for National Statistics, public inquiry, Royal College of Physicians, death certificates, care homes, malnutrition  
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2281 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Oct 2012 at 2:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-07 01:33:25 PM
That is truly awful, subs.

Certainly far worse than the 45,000 people dying in America each year because they don't have health insurance.
 
2012-10-07 01:36:27 PM
Simple solution to both problems is don't get sick.

Also pretty much the GOP platform.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-07 01:39:12 PM
That's sick. When we starve people to death we make the go die in the street instead of dirtying up our nice hospitals.
 
2012-10-07 02:19:18 PM
If they couldn't pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, f*ck 'em, they had it coming. More resources for me.
 
2012-10-07 02:19:22 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-07 02:28:12 PM
Guess what, subtard, people die. It's hella better and more humane to allow someone a little dignity than shove a tube up their nose or stab them in the stomach and stick a tube in there just so someone can collect their social security check.

www.jesus-is-savior.com 
caffeinatedthoughts.com
 
2012-10-07 02:34:12 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57478238-10391695/photos-show-al leged-neglect-at-u.s.-funded-afghan-hospital/
 
2012-10-07 02:36:26 PM
Daily Mail and Telegraph are Rupert Murdoch newspapers AKA
Fox News England 


/Wall Street Journal circling drain
 
2012-10-07 02:36:27 PM
Since an alternative isnt perfectly perfect and solve the problem in 5 seconds, fark it and stay with the current much worse system?
 
2012-10-07 02:37:34 PM
Good thing Obamacare bears no resemblance whatsoever to the British NHS.
 
2012-10-07 02:37:39 PM

Via Infinito: That is truly awful, subs.

Certainly far worse than the 45,000 people dying in America each year because they don't have health insurance.


And that doesn't even cover the neglected seniors that live in poorly run nursing homes throughout the U.S.
 
2012-10-07 02:37:55 PM
Well they were spared the fate of British "cuisine," so there's that at least.
 
2012-10-07 02:42:28 PM
So basically what the story is talking about isn't people who are dying because of "death panels" or "rationed care". From the story, it seems that these are people who are being tended to by poorly trained staff who aren't paying attention to how loften(or how seldom) the patients eat or drink, they just clock in, go through the motions, and go home. Sad, but not a "Socialized Medicine---BAD!!" scenario.

The truth of the matter is that grandma isn't eating and nobody is noticing, they are treating the patients like "tasks", instead of people. This isn't a result of the type of healthcare, but of completely inadequate training. Once again, someone is trying to misrepresent an issue because it happens where there is(Oh My GOD!!) Socialized Medicine, while ignoring the ACTUAL issue.

Suck it, Subby...
 
2012-10-07 02:42:47 PM

Bathia_Mapes: And that doesn't even cover the neglected seniors that live in poorly run nursing homes throughout the U.S.


It's cute, isn't it? Submitter is ignoring the fact that American Civil Attorneys make their entire careers on cases resulting from neglect in nursing homes to try to make a cute political point that giving everyone healthcare without them having to sign away their next three generations to pay the bill for it.

If you don't think this happens in the United States very, very often, submitter, you're either naive, an idiot, or a liar by willful omission.
 
2012-10-07 02:43:24 PM

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Good thing Obamacare bears no resemblance whatsoever to the British NHS.


Heck, it doesn't even resemble the private care-public insurance system in Canada.
 
2012-10-07 02:43:44 PM
Keep in mind they pay 8% GDP we pay 18% GDP for health care.
 
2012-10-07 02:44:19 PM

cmb53208: Well they were spared the fate of British "cuisine," so there's that at least.


yum...

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-07 02:51:49 PM

Mikey1969: The truth of the matter is that grandma isn't eating and nobody is noticing, they are treating the patients like "tasks", instead of people.


We should just privatize the system. They would care if it affected their paycheck.
 
2012-10-07 02:52:08 PM
They let Joe Arpaio run their health care system?
 
2012-10-07 02:54:03 PM
And what were the stats in the US (or other countries)? 'Cause if you don't give us a comparison, it's like you're just trying to shock us with numbers.
 
2012-10-07 02:54:16 PM
Well that does it then, I'm voting for Romney!


Isn't that what you wanted to hear subtard?
 
2012-10-07 02:55:55 PM
The derp when it comes to conservatives in this country and healthcare is just about too much to handle.


Even looking at it from a purely fiscal point of view you would realize that it's waaaaaay more expensive to send people to hospitals and let them become seriously ill from preventable or manageable diseases than it is to insure them.


But no lets scare people with bullshiat like this because I'm sure the amount people suffering in the US due to lack of treatment isn't tenfold(per capita) what it is in the UK or any other civilized country.
 
2012-10-07 02:57:24 PM
Since this is the Daily Mail we're talking about here, I have to ask the obligatory question of how we can blame immigrants for this?
 
2012-10-07 02:57:44 PM
I'm going to tell you a dirty little secret: people are starved to death right here in America. I know someone very close to me, whose mother was in a nursing home. The mother had very advanced Alzheimers, and at the end refused or could not be made to swallow her food. Rather than put them on artificial nutritional support and shoving a feeding tube down her throat, the mother was allowed to die, starving to death. The mother, by that time, had no awareness of anything. So, it happens. And, often, it's or the best.
 
2012-10-07 02:57:47 PM

Spartapuss: We should just privatize the system. They would care if it affected their paycheck.


And you would care when a much bigger chunk of YOUR paycheck goes to healthcare.
 
2012-10-07 02:58:30 PM

BronyMedic: If you don't think this happens in the United States very, very often, submitter, you're either naive, an idiot, or a liar by willful omission.


Bears repeating.
 
2012-10-07 02:59:34 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Via Infinito: That is truly awful, subs.

Certainly far worse than the 45,000 people dying in America each year because they don't have health insurance.

And that doesn't even cover the neglected seniors that live in poorly run nursing homes throughout the U.S.


^THIS

Medicare and Medicaid reimbursments have been cut so many times that the nursing homes are competing with McDonald's for labor. It's all they can afford under the current reimbursements.

Filpping burgers might suck, but it still beats changing soiled sheets.
 
2012-10-07 03:03:53 PM
Of course this is all just Right wing bullshiat for multiple reasons.

1. They list the cause of death, great, but what was the fault? I'm gonna go ahead and say that these people were not eating and already in horrible conditions physically. I find it impossible to believe that patients are in beds able to eat and drink while nurses deliver their food without noticing them not eating or drinking. Could they have done more? Seems like it, but prove it to me. Show me what we do here that prevents this from happening and why.

2. As mentioned, what is the acceptable tradeoff of having everyone get healthcare versus having people sick and not able to get healthcare at all?

3. Lastly, if you want high quality healthcare that is available to all, you need to be willing be pay for it as a community. I am. If you aren't, you have no place to speak to the lack of quality in socialized medicine.
 
2012-10-07 03:04:10 PM
So when people suffer in socialized medical hospitals its evil, but when people are made to suffer as a rule in hospices run by Mother Theresa's nuns then its a miracle?

/Don't act like the OMG SOCIALIZIZMS crowd think poorly of MT.
 
2012-10-07 03:04:22 PM

Lionel Mandrake: cmb53208: Well they were spared the fate of British "cuisine," so there's that at least.

yum...


I always think of Sweeney Todd for some reason.
 
2012-10-07 03:04:36 PM

Via Infinito: That is truly awful, subs.

Certainly far worse than the 45,000 people dying in America each year because they don't have health insurance.


This is about as one and done as it gets.
 
2012-10-07 03:06:36 PM

crab66: Spartapuss: We should just privatize the system. They would care if it affected their paycheck.

And you would care when a much bigger chunk of YOUR paycheck goes to healthcare.


The competitive market would drive those prices down. This is pretty simple stuff, really.
 
2012-10-07 03:08:36 PM
Is that all? Try googling "Nursing Home Abuse" to see how epidemic the problem is in the U.S.
 
2012-10-07 03:10:44 PM

Via Infinito: That is truly awful, subs.

Certainly far worse than the 45,000 people dying in America each year because they don't have health insurance.



yea, the USA can drop 'em as well as anyone. we just do it more subtley and keep it under the rug for appearance's sake.
 
2012-10-07 03:10:50 PM

Spartapuss: Mikey1969: The truth of the matter is that grandma isn't eating and nobody is noticing, they are treating the patients like "tasks", instead of people.

We should just privatize the system. They would care if it affected their paycheck.


Only if it were some kind of "bounty" system, otherwise, it's just a day of work and a ward full of people.
 
2012-10-07 03:13:19 PM
Via Infinito:
Certainly far worse than the 45,000 people dying in America each year because they don't have health insurance.

The study doesn't actually say that - it indicates that one of the indicating risk factors for a higher death rate is a lack of insurance, but that's also an indicator of someone who lives a higher-risk lifestyle. One of the things they don't control for in the study is immigration status, for example... (they filter out "socioeconomic factors" like income differences, but since most of the people without insurance are in the same income bracket, and suffer higher risks in general, that doesn't cover the problem).

This also pales in comparison to the number of people each year who are killed directly by medical malpractice in hospitals (somewhere around 200,000).
 
2012-10-07 03:13:57 PM

Via Infinito: That is truly awful, subs.

Certainly far worse than the 45,000 people dying in America each year because they don't have health insurance.


LOL, using a 19 year old study that doesn't take into account new drugs such as Liptor to lower deaths, then extrapolating that to current models...

Hilarious what liberals believe.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2012/06/20/new-estimate-on- d eaths-among-uninsured-is-actually-19-years-old/
 
2012-10-07 03:15:24 PM

MyRandomName: new drugs


...that uninsured people can't afford.
 
2012-10-07 03:16:26 PM

whatsupchuck: Is that all? Try googling "Nursing Home Abuse" to see how epidemic the problem is in the U.S.

whatsupchuck: Is that all? Try googling "Nursing Home Abuse" to see how epidemic the problem is in the U.S.

whatsupchuck: Is that all? Try googling "Nursing Home Abuse" to see how epidemic the problem is in the U.S.

whatsupchuck: Is that all? Try googling "Nursing Home Abuse" to see how epidemic the problem is in the U.S.

whatsupchuck: Is that all? Try googling "Nursing Home Abuse" to see how epidemic the problem is in the U.S.

 
2012-10-07 03:17:59 PM

Mikey1969: Spartapuss: Mikey1969: The truth of the matter is that grandma isn't eating and nobody is noticing, they are treating the patients like "tasks", instead of people.

We should just privatize the system. They would care if it affected their paycheck.

Only if it were some kind of "bounty" system, otherwise, it's just a day of work and a ward full of people.


I'm not cynical enough to only support a bounty system but customer satisfaction would ultimately make a healthcare company more profitable and sustainable so you have the right idea.
 
2012-10-07 03:19:34 PM
These numbers are appalling. I know that nursing and care home budgets are being cut as a result of "austerity". Poorly paid, and less qualified "support assistants" were beginning to replace support workers when I was in the care industry. when you're not being paid much, you're not going to be that enthusiastic at your job. The ones that see it as a calling are often worse.

But the main point regarding the NHS, is that for all its faults, I am not a serf. I can move freely from job to job, with no worries about healthcare. If I had the balls to do it, I could start my own business, or become a contractor, all without even having to think about how to maintain healthcare provision.

Encouraging free markets for labour (if your boss is a jerk - find a new job), business creation and entrepreneurship. What does your healthcare funding system do for you?
 
2012-10-07 03:19:49 PM

MyRandomName: http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2012/06/20/new-estimate-on- d eaths-among-uninsured-is-actually-19-years-old/


From the article in your link:

"It's possible that the number is actually higher. A 2009 article in the American Journal of Public Health actually found 40% increase in the risk of death for those who lack insurance. The IOM notes this finding, and that using it would have substantially increased the 26,000 number."
 
2012-10-07 03:22:48 PM

Spartapuss: Mikey1969: Spartapuss: Mikey1969: The truth of the matter is that grandma isn't eating and nobody is noticing, they are treating the patients like "tasks", instead of people.

We should just privatize the system. They would care if it affected their paycheck.

Only if it were some kind of "bounty" system, otherwise, it's just a day of work and a ward full of people.

I'm not cynical enough to only support a bounty system but customer satisfaction would ultimately make a healthcare company more profitable and sustainable so you have the right idea.


Also weeding out the impersonal, neglegent ones. Naturally.
 
2012-10-07 03:26:07 PM
Spartapuss: The competitive market would drive those prices down. This is pretty simple stuff, really.


Yeah it works great in the US.

I can choose to be raped in the ass by dozens of different insurance providers.
 
2012-10-07 03:27:13 PM
Don't make me go digging up numbers on neglect deaths in US hospitals, submitter.
 
2012-10-07 03:27:29 PM

whatsupchuck: Is that all? Try googling "Nursing Home Abuse" to see how epidemic the problem is in the U.S.


The nursing home that my uncle was in got mad that my mom took him to the doctor instead of relying on the contracted guy, who, it turned out, missed the blood clot in his leg. They quite literally called an patient transport van and dumped him at the emergency room in the middle of the night with no notification to the family, all because my mom took him to a different doctor for a second opinion.
 
2012-10-07 03:29:31 PM

Spartapuss: Spartapuss: Mikey1969: Spartapuss: Mikey1969: The truth of the matter is that grandma isn't eating and nobody is noticing, they are treating the patients like "tasks", instead of people.

We should just privatize the system. They would care if it affected their paycheck.

Only if it were some kind of "bounty" system, otherwise, it's just a day of work and a ward full of people.

I'm not cynical enough to only support a bounty system but customer satisfaction would ultimately make a healthcare company more profitable and sustainable so you have the right idea.

Also weeding out the impersonal, neglegent ones. Naturally.


You gotta lot of faith in the Invisible Hand, son. It's touching to see.
 
2012-10-07 03:29:51 PM

rynthetyn: whatsupchuck: Is that all? Try googling "Nursing Home Abuse" to see how epidemic the problem is in the U.S.

The nursing home that my uncle was in got mad that my mom took him to the doctor instead of relying on the contracted guy, who, it turned out, missed the blood clot in his leg. They quite literally called an patient transport van and dumped him at the emergency room in the middle of the night with no notification to the family, all because my mom took him to a different doctor for a second opinion.


sacrag.com
 
2012-10-07 03:29:59 PM

Bocasio: Daily Mail and Telegraph are Rupert Murdoch newspapers AKA
Fox News England 


/Wall Street Journal circling drain


He owns neither. He owns the Times and the Sun.
 
2012-10-07 03:30:41 PM
I think we can all compromise and blame this on unions.
 
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