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(My San Antonio)   For the first time in decades, more people are moving from the U.S. to Mexico than are coming to the U.S. from Mexico   (mysanantonio.com) divider line 142
    More: Interesting, Mexico, immigrants  
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7194 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Oct 2012 at 12:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-07 02:55:47 PM

proteus_b: HempHead: That is the difference between immigration 200 years ago and today. 200 years ago it was a one way trip to the new world. You had to assimilate with your new country. America was the great melting pot of cultures and peoples.

2/3 of immigrants to America in the great waves of immigration at the end of the 19th and early 20th century actually returned to their countries of origin. Everything old is new again...


Citation needed here. The population of Ireland is still lower than it was in 1840.
 
2012-10-07 02:56:19 PM

HempHead: proteus_b: HempHead: That is the difference between immigration 200 years ago and today. 200 years ago it was a one way trip to the new world. You had to assimilate with your new country. America was the great melting pot of cultures and peoples.

2/3 of immigrants to America in the great waves of immigration at the end of the 19th and early 20th century actually returned to their countries of origin. Everything old is new again...

Citation needed here. The population of Ireland is still lower than it was in 1840.


They all died.
 
2012-10-07 03:00:52 PM

xl5150: Newsflash: When your "skill set" is such that you're only able to work in unskilled labor, you will be easy to replace and won't be able to command many perks and benefits since any monkey plucked out of the line of willing applicants can replace you.
If you actually work to make yourself more specialized, educated, and marketable (a foreign concept, I know), then you will not face that problem.
You're welcome for the free advice, even though most of you won't take it and will still just sit around and biatch.


Oh shut up. Nobody cares about how many millions you've made because you're simply so awesome, while the rest of us plebes aren't able to figure out how to apply for a job at Burger King.

You're like a farking broken record. Why don't you just post your life story about how awesome you are and get it over with? You know you want to.
 
2012-10-07 03:05:03 PM

Honest Bender: Why would you ever move to Mexico? Gang violence, poverty, and political corruption aside, you will forever be a second class citizen. Seriously. Look it up.


I moved here 5 years ago. Because I love the people, the culture and the society. Yes, i make about 10% of what I made in the states, but I love it here.
 
2012-10-07 03:09:55 PM

HempHead: proteus_b: HempHead: That is the difference between immigration 200 years ago and today. 200 years ago it was a one way trip to the new world. You had to assimilate with your new country. America was the great melting pot of cultures and peoples.

2/3 of immigrants to America in the great waves of immigration at the end of the 19th and early 20th century actually returned to their countries of origin. Everything old is new again...

Citation needed here. The population of Ireland is still lower than it was in 1840.


www.blog4history.com
 
2012-10-07 03:28:54 PM
CSB:I work with a Mexican national who owns a 50 acre sugarcane farm in Central Mexico. He works for us mainly for our medical benefits. I told him I was gonna sneak across the border and come down with my family (kids, wife and cousins) to work on his farm for less than the locals and see how THEY like it. He thought about it for a minute and laughed and said "Come on gringo....."

/end CSB
 
2012-10-07 04:13:27 PM

xl5150: Newsflash: When your "skill set" is such that you're only able to work in unskilled labor, you will be easy to replace and won't be able to command many perks and benefits since any monkey plucked out of the line of willing applicants can replace you.

If you actually work to make yourself more specialized, educated, and marketable (a foreign concept, I know), then you will not face that problem.

You're welcome for the free advice, even though most of you won't take it and will still just sit around and biatch.


That's actually not true at all; IMHO.

Skilled labor still faces many of the same immigration problems.

People's intelligence levels have little to do with where they are born. And many (relatively) poor countries have educational systems that are on par or better than the US (or UK, or Australian, or wherever else you want to go)'s systems. I can speak specifically about Europe....

I work with some really smart people from all over Europe. They are every bit as smart as their US counterparts. They are just as well educated. And they'd jump at the chance to work in the US. Better pay, lower taxes, more opportunity.

Each year they enter the immigration lottery or whatever it is the US has.. Many of them have tried other ways of getting into the US but it's quite difficult, even if they find a company willing to sponsor them it doesn't always work. Even with these controls in place, many skilled US workers already feel the H1-B visa system is lowering wages and decreasing working conditions. Supply and Demand would suggest they are probably right.

I know, for a fact, they'd gladly work 45-50 hours per week for 25% less than their American counterparts. It'd still be as much as they get paid now and they'd have more disposable income because the lower income/sales tax and cost of living. That, and the ones with families would probably be willing to take even less with the belief that their children would have a significantly better life.

The only thing that stops them is that they can't legally do it.
 
2012-10-07 04:15:27 PM

mikemoto: Somewhat off subject but I wonder why so many people, especially Republicans assume that Hispanics are wedded to the Democratic party. Yes, large majorities vote that way currently, but if look at countries like Mexico, they tend to elect center-right or outright conservative governments as opposed to center-left or hard left governments. The PRD in Mexico has NEVER won a national election and probably won't in the near future. The GOP needs to drop its immigrant bashing.


If they were smart, they'd embrace Mexicans, Muslims, and gays. Seriously, some of the most conservative people I've known fit into one or more of those categories, but they vote D because they feel like the Rs want to kill them.
 
2012-10-07 04:26:32 PM
Does this mean we can stop panicing over all the foreigners?
 
2012-10-07 04:27:52 PM

OrygunFarker: So, they moved here when the times were good to mooch off the system and take our jerbs, but now that we are in a recession they are moving away instead of helping pull us out of the mess they helped create.


Sounds about right for Mexicans.


/amirite?


Obvious troll!
 
2012-10-07 04:28:04 PM
All I have to say is, " Don't let the door hit your asses on the way out."
 
2012-10-07 04:32:44 PM

I should be in the kitchen: mikemoto: Somewhat off subject but I wonder why so many people, especially Republicans assume that Hispanics are wedded to the Democratic party. Yes, large majorities vote that way currently, but if look at countries like Mexico, they tend to elect center-right or outright conservative governments as opposed to center-left or hard left governments. The PRD in Mexico has NEVER won a national election and probably won't in the near future. The GOP needs to drop its immigrant bashing.

If they were smart, they'd embrace Mexicans, Muslims, and gays. Seriously, some of the most conservative people I've known fit into one or more of those categories, but they vote D because they feel like the Rs want to kill them.


Well seeing has how immigrants tend to be not well off, and the D's tend to pander to the poor (promise to help them, but let them continue to wallow in financial futility to guarantee votes) I will agree with this.
 
2012-10-07 04:38:04 PM
W're takin' their jobs... er.
 
2012-10-07 04:50:14 PM

HempHead: Citation needed here. The population of Ireland is still lower than it was in 1840.


And the population of italy is now more than triple what it was then. Do you have some kind of a point?

But since you are clearly too feeble-minded to use google (imagine, child, if you could, how much more difficult it was to obtain information long ago, before you could just type your question into a compute and immediately receive an answer!)

From http://www.genealogy.com/96_donna.html:

Statistics by nationality are quite striking. According to a report in 1908 comparing the departures in 1908 with the arrivals of 1907, 61% of the Southern Italians returned home. Croatians and Slovenians (59.8%), Slovaks (56.1%) and Hungarians (48.7%) also had high return rates. The lowest rate, 5.1%, belonged to the Jews (categorized as "Hebrews"). This is understandable since they fled the pogroms to save their lives and had nowhere to return. Surprisingly, when you think of all the nostalgic songs about their homeland, the Irish rarely went back - only 6.3%. Others with a low return rate were Czechs (7.8%), English (10.4%) and Scandinavians (10.9%). In the middle range were Germans (15.5%), Serbs and Bulgarians (21.9%), Finns (23.3%), Poles (33.9%) and Northern Italians (37.8%). Interestingly enough, the Irish and the Swedish were also groups with a very high percentage of woman immigrants.
 
2012-10-07 04:51:34 PM
And we should care.... why?
 
2012-10-07 05:12:34 PM
Well of course it's better in Mexico right now, they have much lower unemployement and their whole housing system wasn't hijacked by Wall Street and turned to the goose that laid golden eggs, and here is some news for you folks...it hasn't stopped laying for them.

Just look at all the rounds of QE, The Fed pretty much just bought mortgage derivatives so the poor little financial bankers can feel more secure about not loosing their 10th summer home.
 
2012-10-07 05:13:14 PM
I've noticed this trend. Know a handful of friends who are attempting to move to Mexico and two who already have.
 
2012-10-07 05:14:48 PM

douchebag/hater: I'm sick of illegals being here and the politicians that pander to them.


I should also mention that all of the friends I know are in fact, legal, US-born citizens.
 
2012-10-07 05:18:32 PM

06Wahoo: Hmm, he turns into the head of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.


Yeah
So how are those democratic elections going on in North Korea?
 
2012-10-07 06:04:16 PM
Mexico should close their borders. That will teach em.
 
2012-10-07 06:20:33 PM

Godscrack: Vectron: I don't think they are taking the gangs with them.

That's because gangs like the gun laws here.


I would like you to do some research into mexican "gangs" (also known as cartels) and then tell me that criminals anywhere care about gun laws.

Your statement is irrelevant to the article. Troll elsewhere please.
 
2012-10-07 06:26:10 PM

HoratioGates: W're takin' their jobs... er.


Who is "W're"? Most of these "migrants" are Mexicans returning/being returned to Mexico. Mexico isn't throwing out the welcome mat for everyone to come in and compete with Mexican citizens for jobs.
 
2012-10-07 06:52:29 PM

06Wahoo: Godscrack: [imageshack.us image 626x509]

Hmm, he turns into the head of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.


The only thing socialist about Hitler's crew was the word socialist in their name - they were very definitely right wing extremists.

In a similar vein, communist East Germany was called the German Democratic Republic.
 
2012-10-07 06:54:10 PM

Mrtraveler01: roadkillontheweb: That's why my friends retired down there. Much cheaper to live great climate (in the mountains) and the healthcare is so much better.

Yeah, but you also have to worry about drug gangs and other acts of violence.

It's like retiring to Opa Locka, North Miami Beach, or to a smaller extent Hialeah (some of the most crime ridden parts of Miami) just to escape the cold weather.


You're a dumb ass, and you seem to know a lot about the seedier parts of Miami. I'm posting from Xcaret, so I'm getting a kick...
 
2012-10-07 07:01:38 PM

MorteDiem: Honest Bender: Why would you ever move to Mexico? Gang violence, poverty, and political corruption aside, you will forever be a second class citizen. Seriously. Look it up.

I moved here 5 years ago. Because I love the people, the culture and the society. Yes, i make about 10% of what I made in the states, but I love it here.


Another dumb ass who has never been out of his 'rent's basement makes a sweeping generalization of the Republic. Tomorrow should I dive on the live reef or hit the Pacific for surfing?

Agreed on the wages, and unfortunately everything else costs about the same as the US. Except labor..labor's cheap!
 
2012-10-07 07:20:20 PM
FTFA: He'd recently divorced his wife and won custody of his children in 2009 when U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents arrested him at his South Side home and deported him over a pair of years-old marijuana possession charges. Now, he lives alone in Monterrey while his children remain in San Antonio with his parents.

God damn the War on Civil LibertiesDrugs.
 
2012-10-07 07:46:51 PM

HempHead: Fark_Guy_Rob: OrygunFarker: So, they moved here when the times were good to mooch off the system and take our jerbs, but now that we are in a recession they are moving away instead of helping pull us out of the mess they helped create.


Sounds about right for Mexicans.


/amirite?
Sounds about right for Immigrants.

Very few immigrants go anywhere because they love the culture and want to be a part of a particular country. Most immigrants go for strictly economic reasons. As an immigrant myself, I can tell you that it was strictly about money and quality of life. I have no love or loyalty to my current country of residency and I'd *rather* be back where I was born. As soon as it makes sense for me, I'll go back home.

That is the difference between immigration 200 years ago and today. 200 years ago it was a one way trip to the new world. You had to assimilate with your new country. America was the great melting pot of cultures and peoples.

Now a days, immigrants come here, but refuse to assimilate. They come strictly for the money and leave when that ends.


Most of the original US "immigrants" were deported here, just like Australia, though I haven't seen a history book at high school that mentions that. College ones do, that's what indentured servitude usually meant. 17th century versions of hippies, survivalists, anarchists, and other social rejects filled out most of the willing. The only reason businessmen came at all was because it was close enough to England, Europe, and the Caribbean to make a half-decent trade, until the economy really started expanding in the mid-18th century and the slave trade picked up with it.
 
2012-10-07 07:52:33 PM

proteus_b: HempHead: Citation needed here. The population of Ireland is still lower than it was in 1840.

And the population of italy is now more than triple what it was then. Do you have some kind of a point?

But since you are clearly too feeble-minded to use google (imagine, child, if you could, how much more difficult it was to obtain information long ago, before you could just type your question into a compute and immediately receive an answer!)

From http://www.genealogy.com/96_donna.html:

Statistics by nationality are quite striking. According to a report in 1908 comparing the departures in 1908 with the arrivals of 1907, 61% of the Southern Italians returned home. Croatians and Slovenians (59.8%), Slovaks (56.1%) and Hungarians (48.7%) also had high return rates. The lowest rate, 5.1%, belonged to the Jews (categorized as "Hebrews"). This is understandable since they fled the pogroms to save their lives and had nowhere to return. Surprisingly, when you think of all the nostalgic songs about their homeland, the Irish rarely went back - only 6.3%. Others with a low return rate were Czechs (7.8%), English (10.4%) and Scandinavians (10.9%). In the middle range were Germans (15.5%), Serbs and Bulgarians (21.9%), Finns (23.3%), Poles (33.9%) and Northern Italians (37.8%). Interestingly enough, the Irish and the Swedish were also groups with a very high percentage of woman immigrants.


This only tells us that the Italians are a bunch of mama's boys who slunk back into their parent's basement after the life in the US proved to be too hard. I thought this was well established, haven't we had several articles here about how many 30 year old Italian men still haven't left?

That's about as useful as telling us that most Otaku who relocate to Japan come crawling back in short order.

Regarding the report: Is that of people who requested immigration visas, anyone who requested any kind of visa, or just every tourist, immigrant, and businessman?
 
2012-10-07 07:57:34 PM

Sultan Of Herf: Mrtraveler01: roadkillontheweb: That's why my friends retired down there. Much cheaper to live great climate (in the mountains) and the healthcare is so much better.

Yeah, but you also have to worry about drug gangs and other acts of violence.

It's like retiring to Opa Locka, North Miami Beach, or to a smaller extent Hialeah (some of the most crime ridden parts of Miami) just to escape the cold weather.

When I went to MEPS (military enlistment processing center) im Miami I was left at a train station in Hialeah for a few hours awaiting a train back to Palm Beach. It was an unstaffed station with only vending type machines to give tickets. I could see the local barrio just about a block away, and they could see me...I was just waiting for it. A couple times a security guard drove through...guess that was enough to keep em away. That is probably the most uncomfortable a place has ever made me.


In 1990 it was Military Entrance Processing Station. At least in Amarillo TX.
 
2012-10-07 08:05:37 PM

xl5150: Newsflash: When your "skill set" is such that you're only able to work in unskilled labor, you will be easy to replace and won't be able to command many perks and benefits since any monkey plucked out of the line of willing applicants can replace you.

If you actually work to make yourself more specialized, educated, and marketable (a foreign concept, I know), then you will not face that problem.

You're welcome for the free advice, even though most of you won't take it and will still just sit around and biatch.


You're really starting to hone your skillz. Keep it up!
 
2012-10-07 08:07:23 PM

foxyshadis: This only tells us that the Italians are a bunch of mama's boys who slunk back into their parent's basement after the life in the US proved to be too hard. I thought this was well established, haven't we had several articles here about how many 30 year old Italian men still haven't left?

That's about as useful as telling us that most Otaku who relocate to Japan come crawling back in short order.

Regarding the report: Is that of people who requested immigration visas, anyone who requested any kind of visa, or just every tourist, immigrant, and businessman?


If you weren't disparaging entire ethnic groups, then I might have invested a moment to explain this to you. As it is, you're likely too stupid to understand in any event.
 
2012-10-07 08:54:19 PM
Sounds good to me! I hope they're all Obama voters.
 
2012-10-07 09:07:59 PM
Interesting thread and article.

I don't want to comment much on immigration policy, because the wealthy love illegal immigration when it serves their purposes yet decry it when they sense a political advantage, while the poor rightly know that when wages are lowered because of too much pressure from illegals willing to take jobs at lower wages, they lose. There is a right and a left argument. I prefer the left, and see the wealthy as hypocritical.

In the meantime, having spent YEARS working in restaurants, I have a very strong respect for the Mexicans I have worked with (very many, of course). Sweet people, funny people, hard-ass-working people (hard to keep up with I found as a cook on a line that was half-Mexican). We should have tightened the borders a long time ago in order to avoid giving all these false dreams to a lot of people. For a long time it's been fairly easy to get into the USA from Mexico, and there's a reason for that.  There was a shortage of cheap labor.
 
2012-10-07 09:44:43 PM

HempHead:

Now a days, immigrants come here, but refuse to assimilate. They come strictly for the money and leave when that ends.


Consider all that really truly sucks about the culture in this country right now, with so much of that suck lovingly cataloged in the pages of FARK every single goddamned day, and there's good reason why some people would never want to "assimilate". Look around you... why in the hell would anyone who wasn't born here really want to be part of this insanity?

If where you came from was a civilized place where people don't fight every day about who's god's dick is bigger, whether women should be in control of their own bodies, where education is seen as a right and not an expense, and where old people and the poor aren't left to rot in the street, you're damn skippy you'd want to go back.

BTW, "assimilation" does not mean "give up all that you are to become something that you are not", as too many americans seem to believe it does. Yes you should learn to speak the local language as well as you are able to, but keep your original language as well and speak it wherever you like. Keep your clothes, your food, your gods, and those beliefs which are not harmful to other human beings. If the locals can't accept you for who and what you are, fu(k 'em. That's their problem, and their loss.  You're not here to make the locals "comfortable".
 
2012-10-07 10:06:27 PM

rewind2846: If where you came from was a civilized place where people don't fight every day about who's god's dick is bigger, whether women should be in control of their own bodies, where education is seen as a right and not an expense, and where old people and the poor aren't left to rot in the street, you're damn skippy you'd want to go back.


You've clearly never been to Mexico...
 
2012-10-07 10:20:28 PM

HempHead: Fark_Guy_Rob: OrygunFarker: So, they moved here when the times were good to mooch off the system and take our jerbs, but now that we are in a recession they are moving away instead of helping pull us out of the mess they helped create.


Sounds about right for Mexicans.


/amirite?
Sounds about right for Immigrants.

Very few immigrants go anywhere because they love the culture and want to be a part of a particular country. Most immigrants go for strictly economic reasons. As an immigrant myself, I can tell you that it was strictly about money and quality of life. I have no love or loyalty to my current country of residency and I'd *rather* be back where I was born. As soon as it makes sense for me, I'll go back home.

That is the difference between immigration 200 years ago and today. 200 years ago it was a one way trip to the new world. You had to assimilate with your new country. America was the great melting pot of cultures and peoples.

Now a days, immigrants come here, but refuse to assimilate. They come strictly for the money and leave when that ends.


Fluffy fantasies of a history that never happened. Immigrants have always, as a group, been hated and discriminated against by those born here. Until World War I, we had specialized public schools that taught in many languages rather than English. Unions and federations were for ethnicities long before they were for workers in this country because if you didn't stand for your own you would be begging on the streets with no one offering you a job or shelter. Urban US was s bunch of armed camps looking suspiciously at one another.

Ever seen The Gangs of New York? That was fairly accurate and played out in cities across the US.

The "melting pot" is a gross idealization by someone from Europe who romanticized everything he saw in this country. People only assimilated when the KKK started to control the public discourse.

/and that was an indictment of the concept of "assimilation" rather than praise for the KKK
 
2012-10-07 10:40:29 PM

proteus_b:

You've clearly never been to Mexico...


You clearly didn't read what I wrote.

And I happen to live 40 miles from the border. I've probably been to mexico more times in a month than you've been... ever. There are some things that even Mexico does as well if not better than the United States, despite their poor economy. Damn shame when a second world nation has a public health system for all its employed people, yet the richest nation in the world night next door does not. Almost all the other first world nations see this as the way things should be.

And before you start the "mexican health care is sh*t" whine, remember that some health care is better than no health care. A stale crust of bread will be the most delicious tasting thing in the world when you haven't eaten for a month. If they can do it, why can't we?

Sorry to burst that ego of yours, but this country ain't all that. Better than some, sucks compared to others, and could be a whole lot better.
 
2012-10-08 01:24:33 AM

make me some tea: That makes sense, low information cultures tend to be more conservative.


Racism much?
 
2012-10-08 02:35:55 AM

Forbidden Doughnut: FTA, © 2012 San Antonio Express-News: "He misses the U.S., Navarro said. He's had a hard time adjusting to the culture - for one thing, personal space isn't given a premium in Mexico, he said - and he gets a hostile reaction when people on the bus hear him speaking English."

It's interesting to note that Mexicans (apparently) are just as bigoted as Americans are.

/ turnabout is fair play, I guess.


They make bad neighbors.
 
2012-10-08 03:35:46 AM

Need_MindBleach: He misses the U.S., Navarro said. He's had a hard time adjusting to the culture - for one thing, personal space isn't given a premium in Mexico, he said - and he gets a hostile reaction when people on the bus hear him speaking English.

So Mexicans don't like it when people move to their country and refuse to speak their language? Wow, what a bunch of racists.


When I'm in Mexico (my fiance is Mexican), most people prefer to speak to me in English (even though I speak ok gringo Spanish) just to practice. Then again, I'm obviously a gringo and all of my gf's friends speak perfect English.
 
2012-10-08 11:47:42 AM
I smell deceptive propaganda. I seriously doubt the real data allow for this conclusion. The article, of course, does not discuss any details of this study, does not offer solid numbers, and has no link to the published findings. Couple that with the fact this "news" organization's readership is heavily Hispanic and liberal.

Confirmation bias - hooray!
 
2012-10-08 03:45:05 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Who is "W're"? Most of these "migrants" are Mexicans returning/being returned to Mexico. Mexico isn't throwing out the welcome mat for everyone to come in and compete with Mexican citizens for jobs.


The article actually mentioned Americans going across the border for employment, and the 'e' was taken out to make it sound more like the South Park 'They're taking our jobs, or thr, takin r jobs.

I personally think borders are just imaginary lines made up by people to control other people, especially considering how fluid culture really is, but hey, that's just my opinion, and all my ancestors were over oppressing the Natives by 1850. I live in Upstate New York where the Iroquois (who for the most part sided with the British in the American Revolution, complain that we took their land, that they took fair and square from the Huron, and I enjoy the irony when Texans complain about Mexicans coming across the border into the land they took from the Mexicans (who of course, took it from the Native Americans (although, just like in the US, many people in Mexico can trace their ancestry back at least tenuously to Native Americans.)
 
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