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(Des Moines Register)   Making a high school athlete run extra laps as a form of discipline is now considered as evil as paddling. "I think youth sports are in trouble"   (desmoinesregister.com) divider line 20
    More: Silly, school bullying, National Occupational Standards, Bear Bryant, Iowa Department of Education, corporal punishments, Education Act 1696, Bobby Knight, physical education  
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4453 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Oct 2012 at 6:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-06 08:13:12 PM
2 votes:

xl5150: the coach made me run as a punishment and the rest of the team didn't have to run


Did the rest of the team fark up, or just you? Man up and take your lumps, cupcake.

Unpleasant consequences teach you not to make mistakes when other people are counting on you.

xl5150: I would have told my dad and he would have gotten the coach fired.


Wow, you're a self-important whiny little biatch.
2012-10-06 03:32:28 PM
2 votes:
we are raising a nation of pussies.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-06 02:30:53 PM
2 votes:
To use conditioning as punishment is "almost vindictive in nature."

Punishment is vindictive by definition.
2012-10-06 11:28:34 PM
1 votes:

ongbok: We had the nutcracker drill to determine the depth rankings for linemen, and basically the nutcracker was "two man enter, one man leaves."


Damn right.

I was a little concerned as I got a little older and chunkier that I would need to be 'afraid' of the more athletic, younger set when I found myself in situations with "bad crowds"... as I often do.

It's good to know that I could probably still kick the crap out of a 21 year old kid because he's never had his limits tested by this soft and fluffy world we encase our kids in.

/those MMA junkies though... yikes... "Sorry about that Sir,... may I get you a beer?"
2012-10-06 08:14:02 PM
1 votes:
About 30 years ago, my freshman basketball team had the JV football coach as its coach. In preseason, he got us in the best shape of our lives, then or since. His favorite thing was having us run up, across, and down each set of bleachers on either side of the gym, over and over and over. Basketball-wise, he was a terrible coach and we sucked because we spent 80% of the time running and conditioning instead of playing basketball. We could fast break but couldn't hit a jump shot.

We had a star football player that wanted to play, and he came on board after football season was done. The coach's first act with him was to attempt to run him ragged, even though he was in great shape coming from football. He told him, "See ya!", turned around and left, never coming back.

After an 0-7 start and a 9 pm game on a Friday night, he decided in his infinite wisdom to practice us the following morning at 7 am, completely changing the system we had committed to memory and executed fairly well, to this complex system no one could figure out in the five minutes he gave us to explain it and master it. After I made a wrong move on one of these new plays, he told me to hit the stairs without ever telling me what I did wrong. By that time I was in such good shape that I loved to run and knew what a runner's high meant. So I ran and ran and ran. He stopped me and asked me if I knew what I did wrong and I told him no and kept running for another 20 minutes. He finally stopped me and told me to get back in there and actually play some basketball. The punishment actually had the opposite effect and the conditioning was already there.

He was an idiot, I think we won 2 games all season and I never played organized basketball again because of it. The next season with mostly the same guys and a good basketball coach they won a lot of games.
2012-10-06 07:47:57 PM
1 votes:
discipline != punishment.

Discipline instills order.

There is no reason why running laps should not be an acceptable way to promote order.
2012-10-06 07:44:15 PM
1 votes:
When we are talking about punishment everyone remember there are two kinds:

1. Positive punishment- you add something bad (extra laps, spanking)

2. Negative punishment- you take away something good (lose your cell phone, lose recess, don't get to play at the game)

So yes, you CAN have discipline without physically OR mentally hurting someone. So stop saying that we are too soft these days and aren't disciplining just because parents aren't spanking. Aren't violent crime rates down?

And studies for animals (which are very different from humans!!!) show that they learn faster through reward. (When animal trainers only using positive reinforcement have a dog that does something bad, they redirect the bad behavior into good behavior.) So take that how you will and maybe someone who studies how humans learn can come explain what works best for children.
2012-10-06 07:30:27 PM
1 votes:
A good coach can get his players to buy in on the team ethos.
His team will train hard for each other. I played in such a team.
When we farked up we voluntarily ran laps. We all knew by the standards the entire group set in place.
3 times champs in a row.
This is a poor coach.
2012-10-06 07:12:44 PM
1 votes:

meanmutton: Krieghund: I don't understand why a high school coach would need to discipline a kid. If the kid wants to do the work, let him play. If he doesn't, don't let him.

Stop being reasonable!

Even though studies uniformly say that coaches yelling at kids or punishing them with physical discipline is counterproductive at best, we need to continue to bully children because otherwise people might think we're gay or something.


[citation needed]

Seriously. There are thousands of years of history that refute your claim. Besides, we're talking about running laps here. Physical conditioning is not counter-productive.
2012-10-06 07:12:22 PM
1 votes:
You can't make someone run. The person decides to run to appease the person making the demand to maintain the social construct that one person can control another. In truth, the person asking the other to run is the one who is out of control: they want something, but they aren't in control of whether what they want happens or not.

The one who runs is voluntarily containing the other's psychological state. The only true control is something like sitting on another person (assuming you're heavy enough to restrict the other's movement). Everything else is agreement. It would be as if an angry, rude customer comes into your store and demands a cake 50% off and you contain that person's emotions, don't create a reflector of their emotions but rather absorb them, and give them the cake at 50% off.

That's what the children are doing. They're giving into the anger of adults. And that's how punishment has traditionally worked throughout history. Children contain adults' anger to make the world make sense for both them and the adults. The punishment is not the running. The punishment is not standing up for yourself, not reflecting the emotions of a person who is out of order. It's a voluntary punishment. And of course, there's the practical side: not voluntarily agreeing would lead to greater social problems. So, there's a sense of resignation. It's forcing children to not only contain the adult's emotions but their own. They have to sublimate and control their emotions for the long-term good of their lives. They can't blow up. Adults in their lives can.

It's bad pedagogy. And it's shaming when children should be forming a sense of autonomy and initiative. It's good pedagogy if you want bitter but resigned slaves. But not if you want happy children who become happy adults.

/No, I am not a troll.
2012-10-06 07:02:19 PM
1 votes:
Running laps was supposed to be "win-win". The condition of the runner improved and that had a positive effect on everybody. It also gave the runner time alone to either cool down or contemplate a bad decision or both.

If it was a team issue causing the laps, then the preceding times team.
2012-10-06 07:02:10 PM
1 votes:
I don't think there's a problem with running laps as a form of discipline as long as it's not over done. If you want to make a point about minor misbehavior, one lap is as good as 10. That way, the kid knows you're in charge, and it's unlikely to cause any harm. For more severe stuff, suspension from play or expulsion from the team seems more appropriate. I suspect some coaches would rather not go there, however, if it means kicking the star player off the team, but sport participation is a privilege and should be treated as such.
2012-10-06 06:54:50 PM
1 votes:

Krieghund: I don't understand why a high school coach would need to discipline a kid. If the kid wants to do the work, let him play. If he doesn't, don't let him.


Stop being reasonable!

Even though studies uniformly say that coaches yelling at kids or punishing them with physical discipline is counterproductive at best, we need to continue to bully children because otherwise people might think we're gay or something.
2012-10-06 06:50:18 PM
1 votes:
Whoever is complaining doesn't have a lot of exposure to young men. Exhausting testosterone fueled kids is a great way of keeping them out of trouble.
2012-10-06 06:39:48 PM
1 votes:
Would rather not require extra running but would instead force them to walk laps. Tedium is a useful punishment, but running works to associate physical activity as punishment. Walking, on the other hand, is significantly less physical as well as providing ample time to think and reinforcing discipline by being unable to complete the punishment faster. However, there is nothing damaging about running, just less effective in my opinion.
2012-10-06 06:34:53 PM
1 votes:

ZAZ: To use conditioning as punishment is "almost vindictive in nature."

Punishment is vindictive by definition.


I think the idea is not to associate athletic conditioning with punishment. Like you don't punish a kid by making him read.

/difference - high school students are not six years old
2012-10-06 05:54:14 PM
1 votes:
My kids get pushups if they get out of line...whether we're in the store or at home. It gives them time to cool off and me time to breathe so we can move along without argument.

I've had comments, mostly from young parents, that it is damaging to my kids' self-esteem. I ignore these people. Mostly I get rave reviews from the older folks. And I have pretty well-behaved kids.

What, honestly, are teachers supposed to do with these kids who are out of line? Ask them to pretty please not do that? At some point it's more damaging to any child NOT to discipline them, and this certainly sounds like that point.
2012-10-06 05:17:32 PM
1 votes:
All I can say is that kids today better be glad they didn't go to military school with me 26 years ago. Running laps was the preferred form of punishment there. Pushups were a close second.
2012-10-06 04:35:46 PM
1 votes:
We got 10, maybe 15 years of football left before the concussion issue leads to insurance rates simply pricing the sport out of business. Stories like this simply accelerate its end.
2012-10-06 04:15:30 PM
1 votes:
suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com

I don't understand why a high school coach would need to discipline a kid. If the kid wants to do the work, let him play. If he doesn't, don't let him.
 
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