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(Des Moines Register)   Making a high school athlete run extra laps as a form of discipline is now considered as evil as paddling. "I think youth sports are in trouble"   (desmoinesregister.com) divider line 121
    More: Silly, school bullying, National Occupational Standards, Bear Bryant, Iowa Department of Education, corporal punishments, Education Act 1696, Bobby Knight, physical education  
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4458 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Oct 2012 at 6:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-06 07:30:27 PM  
A good coach can get his players to buy in on the team ethos.
His team will train hard for each other. I played in such a team.
When we farked up we voluntarily ran laps. We all knew by the standards the entire group set in place.
3 times champs in a row.
This is a poor coach.
 
2012-10-06 07:37:24 PM  

Mike_LowELL: haha look at all thes old ppl sittin around sayin "BACK IN MY DAY" LOLLL BACK IN YOU'RE DAY U WERE READING BOOKS, U LOOSERDS. funny how u all talk about how tough u are but not 1 of u could hang wit me in call of duty modern warfare 3 (soon to be call of duty black ops 2)...yea ill run laps around u...on xbox live loll. my mom told me too stop playing that game but i told her she was ugly. if your generation's so tough why didn't she do anything about it? yea thot so loll back to modern warfare 3 gotta get 18th prestiged so i can brag about it on gamefaqs


Meow was more amusing.

At any rate, when someone stepped out of line while I was playing HS varsity baseball everyone had to run. And our laps were backward, which is much more tiring. Needless to say it was a punishment that did not have to used much because while the coach can only make you run, your teammates can make your life hell all day.

None of that matters here though because the full story behind this is a little more significant than a coach making some kids run a few extra laps.
 
2012-10-06 07:44:15 PM  
When we are talking about punishment everyone remember there are two kinds:

1. Positive punishment- you add something bad (extra laps, spanking)

2. Negative punishment- you take away something good (lose your cell phone, lose recess, don't get to play at the game)

So yes, you CAN have discipline without physically OR mentally hurting someone. So stop saying that we are too soft these days and aren't disciplining just because parents aren't spanking. Aren't violent crime rates down?

And studies for animals (which are very different from humans!!!) show that they learn faster through reward. (When animal trainers only using positive reinforcement have a dog that does something bad, they redirect the bad behavior into good behavior.) So take that how you will and maybe someone who studies how humans learn can come explain what works best for children.
 
2012-10-06 07:44:24 PM  
Laps? Laps? Laps are for pussies. We had this huge ass hill next to our practice field. If you farked up at all, even an offsides or false start, you ran 10 hills. If you really pissed the coach off, he'd make you stand at attention and sock you in the gut. If you got flagged during a game (fri nights) they would make you come in at 6AM on Saturday and run hills for an hour or so.

Guess what? Not only did we NOT complain, we learned to pay attention and not make stupid mental mistakes that would cost our team a game. If that's not for you, then join the goddamn marching band. If you are playing a sport, you shouldn't be afraid of a little running.

/dnrtfa
/I'm 40 and still run hills for exercise.
 
2012-10-06 07:44:30 PM  
I didn't play any sports in school, but if I had and the coach made me run as a punishment and the rest of the team didn't have to run, I would have told my dad and he would have gotten the coach fired.
 
2012-10-06 07:47:15 PM  

cbathrob: In other words, the coach discouraged you from trying to make those top corner shots--difficult to make, but even more difficult to save


Pretty much. It was a stupid move by an otherwise good coach.

He was a baseball coach in real life.

/ and an algebra teacher...
 
2012-10-06 07:47:47 PM  

xl5150: I didn't play any sports in school, but if I had and the coach made me run as a punishment and the rest of the team didn't have to run, I would have told my dad and he would have gotten the coach fired.


You are everything that is wrong with this world. Not for being a pussy, but for being a troll.

0/10.
 
2012-10-06 07:47:57 PM  
discipline != punishment.

Discipline instills order.

There is no reason why running laps should not be an acceptable way to promote order.
 
2012-10-06 07:49:38 PM  

swingerofbirches: You can't make someone run.[snip]
It's bad pedagogy. And it's shaming when children should be forming a sense of autonomy and initiative. It's good pedagogy if you want bitter but resigned slaves. But not if you want happy children who become happy adults.

/No, I am not a troll.


What do you suggest would be a better alternative? I ask because you seem genuinely concerned. Please keep in mind that we're talking about kids who are disrupting the activities of a larger group.
 
2012-10-06 07:53:11 PM  

red5ish: swingerofbirches: You can't make someone run.[snip]
It's bad pedagogy. And it's shaming when children should be forming a sense of autonomy and initiative. It's good pedagogy if you want bitter but resigned slaves. But not if you want happy children who become happy adults.

/No, I am not a troll.

What do you suggest would be a better alternative? I ask because you seem genuinely concerned. Please keep in mind that we're talking about kids who are disrupting the activities of a larger group.


That is really easy- if you want discipline then you take away privileges like they don't play in the game this week, or they are no longer on the starting line, or if they mess up 3 times they are off the team.

If you don't want punishment at all then you just institute a system where only the kids who are good get to play.
 
2012-10-06 07:53:30 PM  
Running laps as a form of discipline, on a sports team, is "wrong" now? My God. The pussification of our country is happening at an advanced rate. I occassionaly have to pick my grandkids (8 and 10 years old) up from school. It's amazing to see all the obese kids come out of that school. When I was in school you might have had one or two "fat kids" in your class. Now the "fat kids" are the majority.

Kick you kids off of the couch, people. It wouldn't hurt them to run a few laps.
 
2012-10-06 07:55:52 PM  

HectorSchwartz: Laps? Laps? Laps are for pussies. We had this huge ass hill next to our practice field. If you farked up at all, even an offsides or false start, you ran 10 hills. If you really pissed the coach off, he'd make you stand at attention and sock you in the gut. If you got flagged during a game (fri nights) they would make you come in at 6AM on Saturday and run hills for an hour or so.

Guess what? Not only did we NOT complain, we learned to pay attention and not make stupid mental mistakes that would cost our team a game. If that's not for you, then join the goddamn marching band. If you are playing a sport, you shouldn't be afraid of a little running.

/dnrtfa
/I'm 40 and still run hills for exercise.


Ha! My team's hill was so bad they made a movie about it: Link

/Ok, so maybe not.
 
2012-10-06 08:06:27 PM  
My wrestling coach in high school preferred pushups over running, since running meant you had to leave the mat room and someone had to keep an eye on you. By January every year, I would get so good at pushups that they were basically a rest period for me.
 
2012-10-06 08:07:03 PM  
If they are being properly conditioned then extra laps will hinder their progress.

That said, I could give a shiat about voluntary sports programs asking kids to run, voluntarily (which is what any accepted punishment in a voluntary program is).

Dnrtfa.
 
2012-10-06 08:13:12 PM  

xl5150: the coach made me run as a punishment and the rest of the team didn't have to run


Did the rest of the team fark up, or just you? Man up and take your lumps, cupcake.

Unpleasant consequences teach you not to make mistakes when other people are counting on you.

xl5150: I would have told my dad and he would have gotten the coach fired.


Wow, you're a self-important whiny little biatch.
 
2012-10-06 08:14:02 PM  
About 30 years ago, my freshman basketball team had the JV football coach as its coach. In preseason, he got us in the best shape of our lives, then or since. His favorite thing was having us run up, across, and down each set of bleachers on either side of the gym, over and over and over. Basketball-wise, he was a terrible coach and we sucked because we spent 80% of the time running and conditioning instead of playing basketball. We could fast break but couldn't hit a jump shot.

We had a star football player that wanted to play, and he came on board after football season was done. The coach's first act with him was to attempt to run him ragged, even though he was in great shape coming from football. He told him, "See ya!", turned around and left, never coming back.

After an 0-7 start and a 9 pm game on a Friday night, he decided in his infinite wisdom to practice us the following morning at 7 am, completely changing the system we had committed to memory and executed fairly well, to this complex system no one could figure out in the five minutes he gave us to explain it and master it. After I made a wrong move on one of these new plays, he told me to hit the stairs without ever telling me what I did wrong. By that time I was in such good shape that I loved to run and knew what a runner's high meant. So I ran and ran and ran. He stopped me and asked me if I knew what I did wrong and I told him no and kept running for another 20 minutes. He finally stopped me and told me to get back in there and actually play some basketball. The punishment actually had the opposite effect and the conditioning was already there.

He was an idiot, I think we won 2 games all season and I never played organized basketball again because of it. The next season with mostly the same guys and a good basketball coach they won a lot of games.
 
2012-10-06 08:16:28 PM  

spidermilk: red5ish: swingerofbirches: You can't make someone run.[snip]
It's bad pedagogy. And it's shaming when children should be forming a sense of autonomy and initiative. It's good pedagogy if you want bitter but resigned slaves. But not if you want happy children who become happy adults.

/No, I am not a troll.

What do you suggest would be a better alternative? I ask because you seem genuinely concerned. Please keep in mind that we're talking about kids who are disrupting the activities of a larger group.

That is really easy- if you want discipline then you take away privileges like they don't play in the game this week, or they are no longer on the starting line, or if they mess up 3 times they are off the team.

If you don't want punishment at all then you just institute a system where only the kids who are good get to play.


And how do you determine who is good? If you can't make them run laps or do any other form of physical exercise, you'll have a team full of doughy brown-nosers who never break a rule, and also can't run a 15-hour mile.
 
2012-10-06 08:19:03 PM  
My sons soccer coach makes you run two laps if you arrive late at practice. You know what that does? Warms you up.

He had a club coach a couple of years ago that would make you run up and down the bleachers until you were willing to tell the coach that you were going to do what you were told during practice. The length of time that you spent running up and down was strictly up to you. I kind of liked that one.
 
2012-10-06 08:23:41 PM  
The pussification continues.

/got heat stroke from punishment laps.
//learned my lesson.
 
2012-10-06 08:29:32 PM  
So some folks think making athletes run as punishment is reasonable, promotes conditioning and creates a positive team environment. Others find it barbaric, and claim it is clearly counterproductive.

If only there were some way we could pit a team using the first method against a team using an alternate method in some competitive event and keep score to see which method seems to actually be working. I'll bet a lot of coaches would opt to use the winning method.
 
2012-10-06 08:36:13 PM  

kudayta: My wrestling coach in high school preferred pushups over running, since running meant you had to leave the mat room and someone had to keep an eye on you. By January every year, I would get so good at pushups that they were basically a rest period for me.


When I was in around 7th grade or so I went to a weeklong basketball camp at the Naval Academy in Annapolis. The gyms and the dorms we lived in weren't air conditioned and we drilled and ran laps all day long in the dead of summer. Every time you missed a shot during drills or practice you did 10 pushups. Most kids couldn't cut it and went home early. I came out probably in better shape than any other kid in my middle school. I miss having that kind of strict training regiment. It's good for you. Prepared me for 2-a-days during freshman football. They were a piece of cake.
 
2012-10-06 08:39:58 PM  

swingerofbirches: You can't make someone run


What planet are you from ?
 
2012-10-06 08:46:39 PM  
And these are the people that the FarkLibTards over in that doody Politics tab like to have in charge.
 
2012-10-06 09:10:23 PM  

swingerofbirches: You can't make someone run. The person decides to run to appease the person making the demand to maintain the social construct that one person can control another. In truth, the person asking the other to run is the one who is out of control: they want something, but they aren't in control of whether what they want happens or not.

The one who runs is voluntarily containing the other's psychological state. The only true control is something like sitting on another person (assuming you're heavy enough to restrict the other's movement). Everything else is agreement. It would be as if an angry, rude customer comes into your store and demands a cake 50% off and you contain that person's emotions, don't create a reflector of their emotions but rather absorb them, and give them the cake at 50% off.

That's what the children are doing. They're giving into the anger of adults. And that's how punishment has traditionally worked throughout history. Children contain adults' anger to make the world make sense for both them and the adults. The punishment is not the running. The punishment is not standing up for yourself, not reflecting the emotions of a person who is out of order. It's a voluntary punishment. And of course, there's the practical side: not voluntarily agreeing would lead to greater social problems. So, there's a sense of resignation. It's forcing children to not only contain the adult's emotions but their own. They have to sublimate and control their emotions for the long-term good of their lives. They can't blow up. Adults in their lives can.

It's bad pedagogy. And it's shaming when children should be forming a sense of autonomy and initiative. It's good pedagogy if you want bitter but resigned slaves. But not if you want happy children who become happy adults.

/No, I am not a troll.


Aren't you just a precious little snowflake? I don't want to hurt your feelings, but you should probably put down your smart phone and pay attention to the fry-o-lator or your manager might punish you and shatter your delicate psyche.
 
2012-10-06 09:19:10 PM  

swingerofbirches: You can't make someone run. The person decides to run to appease the person making the demand to maintain the social construct that one person can control another. In truth, the person asking the other to run is the one who is out of control: they want something, but they aren't in control of whether what they want happens or not.

The one who runs is voluntarily containing the other's psychological state. The only true control is something like sitting on another person (assuming you're heavy enough to restrict the other's movement). Everything else is agreement. It would be as if an angry, rude customer comes into your store and demands a cake 50% off and you contain that person's emotions, don't create a reflector of their emotions but rather absorb them, and give them the cake at 50% off.

That's what the children are doing. They're giving into the anger of adults. And that's how punishment has traditionally worked throughout history. Children contain adults' anger to make the world make sense for both them and the adults. The punishment is not the running. The punishment is not standing up for yourself, not reflecting the emotions of a person who is out of order. It's a voluntary punishment. And of course, there's the practical side: not voluntarily agreeing would lead to greater social problems. So, there's a sense of resignation. It's forcing children to not only contain the adult's emotions but their own. They have to sublimate and control their emotions for the long-term good of their lives. They can't blow up. Adults in their lives can.

It's bad pedagogy. And it's shaming when children should be forming a sense of autonomy and initiative. It's good pedagogy if you want bitter but resigned slaves. But not if you want happy children who become happy adults.

/No, I am not a troll.


Well, I am. And I hope you and everybody who even understands what you wrote up there goes to boot camp hell and has to do pointless physical exercise until you puke up pieces of your trachea, then wake up and do the same thing for eternity. Because America.
 
2012-10-06 09:28:28 PM  

cbathrob: I didn't play a lot of (i.e., no) organized sports, so I don't understand why coaches punish kids for, say, missing free throws. To me, that just smacks of making a kid wear a dunce's cap for scoring low on a test. I can see consequences for not trying one's best, but for trying and failing? That just seems dickish and counter-productive.


Fark how hard you tried. Real life is about delivering. If you can't deliver every time, you ought to expect your time in the real world to be embarrassing, exhausting, and pointless.
 
2012-10-06 09:54:19 PM  
This what we had to run when we pissed off the coach

10 miles up, find a rock with your name on it, grab it, 10 miles down. I only had to run it once.
 
2012-10-06 09:54:35 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: cbathrob: I didn't play a lot of (i.e., no) organized sports, so I don't understand why coaches punish kids for, say, missing free throws. To me, that just smacks of making a kid wear a dunce's cap for scoring low on a test. I can see consequences for not trying one's best, but for trying and failing? That just seems dickish and counter-productive.

Fark how hard you tried. Real life is about delivering. If you can't deliver every time, you ought to expect your time in the real world to be embarrassing, exhausting, and pointless.


Yeah, well I'm just a big loser anyway, so there you are.
 
2012-10-06 09:57:00 PM  
oops

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-06 10:03:54 PM  

Krieghund: [suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com image 379x214]

I don't understand why a high school coach would need to discipline a kid. If the kid wants to do the work, let him play. If he doesn't, don't let him.


That is thee perfect reason to allow the extra laps. The kid doesn't want to do them? Quit. Or face the consequences of disobeying the coach.
 
2012-10-06 10:05:22 PM  

cbathrob: i upped my meds-up yours: cbathrob: I didn't play a lot of (i.e., no) organized sports, so I don't understand why coaches punish kids for, say, missing free throws. To me, that just smacks of making a kid wear a dunce's cap for scoring low on a test. I can see consequences for not trying one's best, but for trying and failing? That just seems dickish and counter-productive.

Fark how hard you tried. Real life is about delivering. If you can't deliver every time, you ought to expect your time in the real world to be embarrassing, exhausting, and pointless.

Yeah, well I'm just a big loser anyway, so there you are.


Learn to take it seriously.
 
2012-10-06 10:15:11 PM  
Farking people.

When I played HS Football (in the 80's, LATE 80's... fark you!), roster "depth rankings" among linemen and linebackers during summer practices were settled by the two fully padded players being closed into one of our chainlink baseball dugouts... first one to have a knee touch the ground lost. Some of them got pretty brutal. We also ALL ran when anybody farked up... that kinda peer pressure puts and end to that shiat quick.

It worked out fine for us... and everybody knew it went on. Parents didn't like it? Fine... take your kid off the team.

Now... kids are all a bunch of friggin' pansies... it;s scary.

/Private school
//Played with and against quite a few future NFLers.
 
2012-10-06 10:18:01 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: cbathrob: i upped my meds-up yours: cbathrob: I didn't play a lot of (i.e., no) organized sports, so I don't understand why coaches punish kids for, say, missing free throws. To me, that just smacks of making a kid wear a dunce's cap for scoring low on a test. I can see consequences for not trying one's best, but for trying and failing? That just seems dickish and counter-productive.

Fark how hard you tried. Real life is about delivering. If you can't deliver every time, you ought to expect your time in the real world to be embarrassing, exhausting, and pointless.

Yeah, well I'm just a big loser anyway, so there you are.

Learn to take it seriously.


I take my loserhood very seriously, thank you very much. I'm not so much as cracking a smile right now.
 
2012-10-06 10:36:34 PM  
Another casualty of a spreading philosophy that values feeling good over doing well.
 
2012-10-06 10:36:42 PM  

Lone Stranger: YOU WILL RUN LAPS UNTIL YOU PUKE! THEN AFTER YOU PUKE YOU'LL RUN UNTIL YOU POOP YOUR PANTS.


I ran 5 miles without stopping once and puked two hours later in the movie theater while on a date. It was a James Bond movie, the one with the blonde JB.
 
2012-10-06 10:38:45 PM  
Character is submission. All else is lies.
 
2012-10-06 10:44:35 PM  

Millennium: Another casualty of a spreading philosophy that values being good over doing well.


FTFY. Placing ethical subtleties over moral absolutes is far more dangerous than the mere pursuit of dumb pleasure.
 
2012-10-06 10:49:22 PM  
I went to an overseas British boarding school run on stern lines. For the slightest infraction students were given black marks. Accumulate 3 and you had 3 punishment laps. That is what they were called, as they were intended as punishment. The course was up and down hills, through streets, it was exhausting. Typically I had to do 12 laps by Saturday afternoon. It is a testament to my innately poor physique that I did not develop into a great cross-country athlete. Went back for a reunion 3 years ago, all were disappointed to learn that laps had been dropped some time ago. If this trend keeps up there may come a time when geriatrics who grew up under harsher regimes are a match for teenagers.
 
2012-10-06 11:08:38 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Farking people.

When I played HS Football (in the 80's, LATE 80's... fark you!), roster "depth rankings" among linemen and linebackers during summer practices were settled by the two fully padded players being closed into one of our chainlink baseball dugouts... first one to have a knee touch the ground lost. Some of them got pretty brutal. We also ALL ran when anybody farked up... that kinda peer pressure puts and end to that shiat quick.

It worked out fine for us... and everybody knew it went on. Parents didn't like it? Fine... take your kid off the team.

Now... kids are all a bunch of friggin' pansies... it;s scary.

/Private school
//Played with and against quite a few future NFLers.


We had the nutcracker drill to determine the depth rankings for linemen, and basically the nutcracker was "two man enter, one man leaves."

And as far as running laps, by the end of the season I could run with most of the cross country team. We would run laps if we were late to practice for any reason, if you missed practice with a reason you had to run laps, if you missed practice with out a reason to had a choice, either run all practice for a week and not play on Saturday or get kicked off the team. In practice if any of the offensive linemen jumped offsides during scrimmages, the whole offensive line had to run from one end of the practice field and back. You miss a tackle, block, drop a pass, fumble or throw an interception during practice, guess what? You ran for each one of those after practice.

Guess what happened? There was a lot of running in the beginning of the season but almost none by the end. After the first 2 or so weeks of practice knowbody was late or missed any practices and the Freshman, Sophomore, an JV teams always were 1 or 2 in the conference and the Varsity team won 2 state championships and 4 conference championships while I was in high school.
 
2012-10-06 11:28:34 PM  

ongbok: We had the nutcracker drill to determine the depth rankings for linemen, and basically the nutcracker was "two man enter, one man leaves."


Damn right.

I was a little concerned as I got a little older and chunkier that I would need to be 'afraid' of the more athletic, younger set when I found myself in situations with "bad crowds"... as I often do.

It's good to know that I could probably still kick the crap out of a 21 year old kid because he's never had his limits tested by this soft and fluffy world we encase our kids in.

/those MMA junkies though... yikes... "Sorry about that Sir,... may I get you a beer?"
 
2012-10-06 11:42:18 PM  

ManateeGag: we are raising a nation of pussies.


Correction. We are being molded into a nation of docile, non-combative, pussies.
 
2012-10-06 11:52:55 PM  

HectorSchwartz: Laps? Laps? Laps are for pussies. We had this huge ass hill next to our practice field. If you farked up at all, even an offsides or false start, you ran 10 hills. If you really pissed the coach off, he'd make you stand at attention and sock you in the gut. If you got flagged during a game (fri nights) they would make you come in at 6AM on Saturday and run hills for an hour or so.

Guess what? Not only did we NOT complain, we learned to pay attention and not make stupid mental mistakes that would cost our team a game. If that's not for you, then join the goddamn marching band. If you are playing a sport, you shouldn't be afraid of a little running.

/dnrtfa
/I'm 40 and still run hills for exercise.


The marching band will have you running laps while clanging cymbals above your head.

/called "cymbal laps"
//cures just about everything that ails ya.
 
2012-10-07 12:11:42 AM  
www.examiner.com
 
2012-10-07 12:26:36 AM  

xl5150: I didn't play any sports in school, but if I had and the coach made me run as a punishment and the rest of the team didn't have to run, I would have told my dad and he would have gotten the coach fired.


lemme guess, you were a piccolo player in the band?
 
2012-10-07 12:27:07 AM  
This was clearly not corporal punishment, the difference between corporal punishment and this is that this kid could have just stopped running anytime he damned well pleased. God forbid that a kid learns that his words and actions have consequences.
 
HBK
2012-10-07 12:37:16 AM  
I remember running dozens of laps for misconduct, etc. I would think to myself, "This is bullshiat, I could stop running at any time, but I'd have to quit the team." I never wanted to quit.

So as far as kids having to run laps, they always have a choice.
 
2012-10-07 12:37:21 AM  
Maybe you idiots, and subby, should actually read the PDF about the incident before jumping to conclusions. But I guess that's too much to ask.
 
2012-10-07 12:56:54 AM  

bVork: Maybe you idiots, and subby, should actually read the PDF about the incident before jumping to conclusions. But I guess that's too much to ask.


Maybe you should stop trying to turn everyone else into a bunch of docile pussies because one coach took it to an extreme.
 
2012-10-07 12:58:20 AM  

bVork: Maybe you idiots, and subby, should actually read the PDF about the incident before jumping to conclusions. But I guess that's too much to ask.


It's time to separate the wheat from the chaff, the men from the boys, the awkwardly feminine from the possibly Canadian.
 
HBK
2012-10-07 01:09:04 AM  

bVork: Maybe you idiots, and subby, should actually read the PDF about the incident before jumping to conclusions. But I guess that's too much to ask.


wtf are you talking about? There's no pdf. in the article.
 
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