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(WTKR)   America's flagship ocean liner, the SS United States, sits rusting away at a pier in Philly. Now a group is trying to raise millions to restore her to her former glory   (wtkr.com) divider line 92
    More: Sad, United States, piers, cold-war, flagship, Just Seventeen, maiden voyage, Hampton Roads, Newport News  
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10869 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Oct 2012 at 3:13 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-06 12:10:00 PM  
This vessel still holds the west bound speed record for the fastest Atlantic crossing by a steamship.

/your gee whiz trivia for today
 
2012-10-06 12:21:23 PM  
Schutzstaffel United States.

Kinda has a ring to it.
 
2012-10-06 12:29:35 PM  
Synchronized orbit space station. Thorium-powered reactor.

Newt will be Captain. Callista is your Social Officer and Head of Security.
 
2012-10-06 12:35:51 PM  

BunkyBrewman: This vessel still holds the west bound speed record for the fastest Atlantic crossing by a steamship.

/your gee whiz trivia for today


So what? The Flying Cloud was the world's fastest clipper ship. Being the best at a dead technology is not worth much.
 
2012-10-06 12:41:05 PM  
Why do we need to save it?

Where is America's Flagship Steam Locomotive? Or America's Flagship horse carriage?

We didn't need to save those...
 
2012-10-06 01:51:08 PM  

Godscrack: Schutzstaffel United States.

Kinda has a ring to it.


i105.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-06 01:53:53 PM  

Godscrack: Schutzstaffel United States.

Kinda has a ring to it.


S.S.U.S.?
 
2012-10-06 02:08:00 PM  
in Philly? Surprised it hasn't been sunk in a drive-by shooting.
 
2012-10-06 03:17:33 PM  
They did a big push last year and raised a couple million dollars to be able to keep it in dock for a couple months. It's kind of sad since the Olympia sits up the river in need of tens of millions of dollars in repairs. People are trying to save another dumb cruiseship that should be a tramp steamer in the Phillipines while one of the five ships that define the evolution of American maritime power rusts away neglected.
 
2012-10-06 03:22:52 PM  
Ask yourself- when the Gamelon comet bombs fall what ship can be retrofitted for a cruise to Iscandar to save the human race? Are we going to let the Japanese surge ahead in space battleship retrofitting techology, too?
 
2012-10-06 03:24:26 PM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: They did a big push last year and raised a couple million dollars to be able to keep it in dock for a couple months. It's kind of sad since the Olympia sits up the river in need of tens of millions of dollars in repairs. People are trying to save another dumb cruiseship that should be a tramp steamer in the Phillipines while one of the five ships that define the evolution of American maritime power rusts away neglected.


Not saying the Olympia shouldn't be saved, but the S.S. United States was also a military vessel, its top speed was classified for years, pictures and models below the waterline and screws were also classified, it was built to be the worlds largest, fastest troop transport ship. The US government subsidised a large portion of the build budget. The engines are military spec. This is not a slow prodding cruise ship/tramp steamer.
 
2012-10-06 03:25:56 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: in Philly? Surprised it hasn't been sunk in a drive-by shooting.


It's the world's largest floating crack house.
 
2012-10-06 03:26:11 PM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Ask yourself- when the Gamelon comet bombs fall what ship can be retrofitted for a cruise to Iscandar to save the human race? Are we going to let the Japanese surge ahead in space battleship retrofitting techology, too?


No spot for a wave motion gun on a cruise ship. We'll raise the Arizona for that.
 
2012-10-06 03:27:50 PM  
Since they already gutted it and sold off the valuable stuff... scrap it. It's not worth putting money into.

Imagine the upgrades required by the Coast Guard to be seaworthy!
 
2012-10-06 03:29:29 PM  
Yes because pumping millions of dollars into an old ship that we have no use for is a much better investment then say spending that money on education, roads, space, paying down the debt, etc. Sell it for scrap and be done with it.
 
2012-10-06 03:30:53 PM  
We're spending millions to save an old boat? Come on.
 
2012-10-06 03:32:22 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: Yes because pumping millions of dollars into an old ship that we have no use for is a much better investment then say spending that money on education, roads, space, paying down the debt, etc. Sell it for scrap and be done with it.


it's a metaphor for the actual United States, hence some people wanting to save it and others wanting to render it down.
 
2012-10-06 03:33:18 PM  
Meanwhile the NS Savannah sits rotting away while the government decides what to do with it...
 
2012-10-06 03:35:55 PM  
Brings a tear to my eye. Every time I pass her watching her waist away is just sad.
/they've been trying to restore her for many years, this is just another round.


I really cried when they sent the SS France to the scrap yard.
My dad spent 2 years on her when she was the Norway (for his retirement as an actor)

/ I enjoyed many cocktails as his son ...and a few sailings
 
2012-10-06 03:41:35 PM  

BunkyBrewman: This vessel still holds the west bound speed record for the fastest Atlantic crossing by a steamship.

/your gee whiz trivia for today


Her top speed was also classified (and utterly exaggerated) until 1977, because she was designed to double as a Navy troop carrier or hospital ship.

/the more you know
//but what's new in TFA? They've been promising to save her for a decade now, and it's been going nowhere for a decade
 
2012-10-06 03:41:43 PM  
I've seen it in person and it is said to see it rusting there. I'd love to see some someone find a constructive use for it and restore it, but it is dead technology and there just isn't a huge demand for retrofitting projects when the Koreans can make you something new for half the cost to fix an old one up. They should shop it around and see if someone wants to one up Paul Allen's yacht or something. Or maybe we could come up with a plan where the whole vessel was brought into service as a disaster relief ship and run by the USN. Not as cost effective as buying new since you'd have to drop in a whole new powerplant but there are worse ways to spend tax dollars.
 
2012-10-06 03:42:02 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: I really cried when they sent the SS France to the scrap yard.
My dad spent 2 years on her when she was the Norway (for his retirement as an actor)



Fun Fact the S.S. United States was the first choice of Norwegian Cruise Lines over the S.S. France, but at the time the design of the engine was still being used in U.S. Navy Ships so the Government wouldn't allow the sale.
 
2012-10-06 03:43:13 PM  
It's in better shape than the country it represents.
 
2012-10-06 03:43:40 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: Yes because pumping millions of dollars into an old ship diversity that we have no use for is a much better investment then say spending that money on education, roads, space, paying down the debt, etc. Sell it for scrap and be done with it.


FTFY
 
2012-10-06 03:46:57 PM  
Wow, that sounds worthwhile.
 
2012-10-06 03:47:23 PM  

GammaTitan: No spot for a wave motion gun on a cruise ship. We'll raise the Arizona for that.


I was talking about retrofitting the Olympia because it's so cool looking. Don't mention Starblazers on a cruise ship too loud or else Joss Whedon will make a show about it.

f="http://www.fark.com/comments/7367556/79846151#c79846151" target="_blank">Tom_Slick: Not saying the Olympia shouldn't be saved, but the S.S. United States was also a military vessel, its top speed was classified for years, pictures and models below the waterline and screws were also classified, it was built to be the worlds largest, fastest troop transport ship. The US government subsidised a large portion of the build budget. The engines are military spec. This is not a slow prodding cruise ship/tramp steamer.

But at the end of the day it is just a transport ship. I don't get why people are so gung ho to throw money at it. Especially not the amounts that have already been wasted on it. And I get why people want to preserve ships, etc, but the economics of it- it's huge and they are already having troubles keeping the New Jersey, Olympia and Becuna afloat. Suddenly adding a not-very-well-known ship is going to flip that around?
 
2012-10-06 03:48:26 PM  
If a plausible reason to save her could have been discovered, someone would have done it by now.

She had her day in the sun but that day is over. Let her die in peace.
 
2012-10-06 03:48:30 PM  
I'm sorry. Historic as the ship is there's a reason it has been sitting around for years falling apart.

That would be because it outlived its usefulness.

If you're going to spend 10s of millions of dollars on something I'm sure the infrastructure of your city could use it more.
 
2012-10-06 03:48:59 PM  
There's not enough valuable lead or asbestos to save her. As to the wood, aluminum, copper, sculptures and other worthless stuff, that's been removed a long time ago.

On the bright side, there's an IKEA at the other end of the pier's parking lot, and maybe a Best Buy. So outfitting her should be a cinch. 

Many of the Russian spacecraft ended up in a cafeteria in Parc Disneyland, outside of Paris.
 
2012-10-06 03:49:16 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: Every time I pass her watching her waist away is just sad.


ha-ha-guy: I've seen it in person and it is said to see it rusting there.


I morn for the litter racy of my fellow Farkers.
 
2012-10-06 03:49:33 PM  
I have some miscellaneous items from the ship I purchased before the ship left Hampton Roads for Philly like a Grey Star china lemon serving bowl I use as a soap dish. Also, the electrical engineers for the ship still have offices in Norfolk and still have copies of the original design drawings in their offices.

It was beautiful ship.
 
2012-10-06 03:50:11 PM  

GAT_00: BunkyBrewman: This vessel still holds the west bound speed record for the fastest Atlantic crossing by a steamship.

/your gee whiz trivia for today

So what? The Flying Cloud was the world's fastest clipper ship. Being the best at a dead technology is not worth much.


3.bp.blogspot.com ?
 
2012-10-06 03:52:12 PM  
A rusty boat in Philly? I know some people who might be interested

phillyist.com
 
2012-10-06 03:55:51 PM  
This headline wouldn't happen to be an analogy for the country, would it?
 
2012-10-06 03:56:15 PM  
"When I first moved to Philadelphia 12 years ago, I was riding to the airport..."

There's your problem right there. Get rid of all them airports, and the ships will reappear.
 
2012-10-06 03:57:04 PM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: They did a big push last year and raised a couple million dollars to be able to keep it in dock for a couple months. It's kind of sad since the Olympia sits up the river in need of tens of millions of dollars in repairs. People are trying to save another dumb cruiseship that should be a tramp steamer in the Phillipines while one of the five ships that define the evolution of American maritime power rusts away neglected.


Two new artificial reefs, waiting
 
2012-10-06 03:59:05 PM  

olddinosaur: If a plausible reason to save her could have been discovered, someone would have done it by now.

She had her day in the sun but that day is over. Let her die in peace.


I think the problem is these "We're going to turn the ship into condos/casino/museum/etc" projects fail is they're always done in isolation. The deep water capable piers in Philly are not in the nicest section of town and no one wants to live there. A better idea would be to say buy up the old Brooklyn Naval Yard and bring in a half dozen ships. Plus warships as eye candy/museum pieces. Dock them all there, add infrastructure on the docks, and clean the area up. If you had hundreds to thousands of residents (either owning or renting on a passenger ship) and a steady stream of tourists to see the warships + whatever areas of the passenger ships was open to the public there is a chance you could get the economies of scale working. Plus you could get more support from the local and state government.

/also transatlantic steamer + Brooklyn = one of the most sought after hipster properties in NYC
 
2012-10-06 04:01:39 PM  
Photos: Slideshow
Click here for Photos: Slideshow
Click here for the web site: Flash website

Three strikes, you're out!
 
2012-10-06 04:01:47 PM  
Now? They've been trying to raise money for decades. Like someone else said, let it go because man, it's gone. Just like that Wright house from a few days ago. Preservationists make me think of a favorite quote from Duncan Idaho, the oldest man who ever lived:

"There's a time, Leto, a time when you're alive. A time when you're supposed to be alive. It can have a magic, that time, while you're living it. You know you're never going to see a time like that again."
 
2012-10-06 04:03:47 PM  
I received a diploma for crossing the Atlantic on her. I was only three, but it is a connection. Preserving history IS what a great nation does.
 
2012-10-06 04:04:17 PM  
Yeah, putting I95 on the waterfront was a great idea when Washington Ave on down was nothing but meatpacking plants, slaughter houses and manufacturing. When I moved to the Belle Vista/Queen Village area there were still warehouses all along Third Street.

Making tourists walk the hell out of the way to see a bunch of ships and the sunny vista of Camden? Not so much of a good idea.

TheOther: SockMonkeyHolocaust: They did a big push last year and raised a couple million dollars to be able to keep it in dock for a couple months. It's kind of sad since the Olympia sits up the river in need of tens of millions of dollars in repairs. People are trying to save another dumb cruiseship that should be a tramp steamer in the Phillipines while one of the five ships that define the evolution of American maritime power rusts away neglected.

Two new artificial reefs, waiting


I'd be sad to see the Olympia go, but the Oregon and a couple others of her class were made into reefs, too.
 
2012-10-06 04:04:47 PM  

Tom_Slick: AlwaysRightBoy: I really cried when they sent the SS France to the scrap yard.
My dad spent 2 years on her when she was the Norway (for his retirement as an actor)


Fun Fact the S.S. United States was the first choice of Norwegian Cruise Lines over the S.S. France, but at the time the design of the engine was still being used in U.S. Navy Ships so the Government wouldn't allow the sale.


Thanks for that info.

In the early 80s, the Norway made her way up into philly's harbor. They had to get guys up on the towers to blow torch the tips because she wouldn't fit under the bridge.

/met my dad there, introduced him to my wife -to-be and got on board
 
2012-10-06 04:06:18 PM  
I sailed on it back in the 60's when I was 4. Still remember some of it. But that ship is like a junky old house people like to label historic. Its time to scrap it. Why waste multi-millions on it.
 
2012-10-06 04:15:16 PM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: People are trying to save another dumb cruiseship that should be a tramp steamer in the Phillipines while one of the five ships that define the evolution of American maritime power rusts away neglected.


Yes, we should always celebrate warmongering and violence, not peace and relaxation.

/troll out
 
2012-10-06 04:15:30 PM  
FTFA: It is the last of the American ocean liners.

Not true. Norwegian Cruise Line's Pride of America is a US-flagged cruise ship that sails the Hawaiian Islands and has an entirely US and unionized crew. 

cruiseweb.com
 
2012-10-06 04:19:46 PM  
Put Big Bird on it and sink the motherf@I(3R !
 
2012-10-06 04:24:57 PM  

Intoxoman: I sailed on it back in the 60's when I was 4. Still remember some of it. But that ship is like a junky old house people like to label historic. Its time to scrap it. Why waste multi-millions on it.


Me too, same age, and I agree that some things aren't worth spending enormous resources to keep around.
 
GBB
2012-10-06 04:27:33 PM  
Why are they not putting this on the KickStarter?? Get your big investors, yes, but also crowd source the hell out of this. There are plenty of cruise fanatics that would love them to offer special incentives for investing. Heck, if the plans fall through and they scrap the thing, they could at least cut up something from the ship to give to the investors so they won't be left completely empty handed.
 
2012-10-06 04:31:59 PM  

Bladel: Why do we need to save it?

Where is America's Flagship Steam Locomotive? Or America's Flagship horse carriage?

We didn't need to save those...


You still wear short pants, don't you?
 
2012-10-06 04:32:02 PM  

DSF6969: FTFA: It is the last of the American ocean liners.

Not true. Norwegian Cruise Line's Pride of America is a US-flagged cruise ship that sails the Hawaiian Islands and has an entirely US and unionized crew. 

[cruiseweb.com image 600x429]


Not quite the same thing. An ocean liner is a form of public transportation, serving fixed routes on a regular schedule for transportation purposes, just like the vehicles of an air or bus line. A cruise ship is not dissimilar, but is designed with the intent of the time on the boat itself being much or all of the pleasure. It's the difference between Greyhound and a tour bus, or Southwest and a sightseeing charter.
 
2012-10-06 04:32:14 PM  
living in the past is a favorite thing for americans and old men.
 
2012-10-06 04:34:58 PM  
Ya sure...just as soon as they cure Cancer and AIDS and every school in the US is in perfect fair working order...with budget surpluses!
 
2012-10-06 04:37:00 PM  
I've seen that boat from the dining area at the Philly IKEA. My kids always ask about the big boat while we're eating those yummy, yummy chicken fingers.
 
2012-10-06 04:38:33 PM  
Not unlike the US itself.
 
2012-10-06 04:42:05 PM  
Raising millions of $$$ to restore the boat and turn it into a hotel and tourist attraction, which would create thousands of jobs and millions in tax revenue?

Someone would like to see your business plan:

upload.wikimedia.org
(hot, like salsa picante)
 
2012-10-06 04:43:36 PM  
I'm as much of an ocean liner nut as the next guy, but from those pictures that ship is positively gutted. It's going to take millions upon millions to make that ship livable, even if it just sits at a dock for the rest of time.
 
2012-10-06 04:45:00 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: Yes because pumping millions of dollars into an old ship that we have no use for is a much better investment then say spending that money on education, roads, space, paying down the debt, etc. Sell it for scrap and be done with it.


Paying down the debt? Maybe you don't understand how Republicans and Democrats operate. Wiki it, Google it, but here's tl;dr

Both major parties spend like drunken sailors, such as when they try to restore useless boats or useless people.
 
2012-10-06 04:52:27 PM  

Bladel: Where is America's Flagship Steam Locomotive?


www.ronsaari.com
 
2012-10-06 05:01:59 PM  

Marshall Willenholly: I've seen that boat from the dining area at the Philly IKEA. My kids always ask about the big boat while we're eating those yummy, yummy chicken fingers.


I will never understand people who go to a furniture store to eat. Do you go into a restaurant and ask to buy the tables?
 
2012-10-06 05:05:00 PM  
She could join her sister...

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-06 05:17:10 PM  
I see scrap metal. Tons and tons of precious scrap metal.
 
2012-10-06 05:42:25 PM  
Where is America's Flagship Steam Locomotive?
www.steamlocomotive.com 

Where she's been since the sixties, The Henry Ford in Dearborn. All 500 tons of 'er.
 
2012-10-06 06:01:17 PM  
It may be a history making boat, but nobody knows what it does, unlike famous WWII carriers.

If it does not have an audience outside of a few naval history geeks, what is the point of restoring a boat that nobody remembers and appears gutted.
 
2012-10-06 06:04:09 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: Yes because pumping millions of dollars into an old ship that we have no use for is a much better investment then say spending that money on education, roads, space, paying down the debt, etc. Sell it for scrap and be done with it.


I don't understand how my donation to a charity will change how much the local school board spends on the schools. I'm pretty sure I still have to pay sales, property, income, payroll, etc taxes whether I send in $50 or not..
 
2012-10-06 06:04:28 PM  
Here's what she looks like now:

farm8.staticflickr.com

I tried to find a way onto her but there's no access from the shore at all, even if I did get past the fence.
 
2012-10-06 06:05:53 PM  
Obviously the term "flagship" is commonly used metaphorically to describe all sorts of things as the foremost of their kinds, but for ships, the word has an actual specific meaning, and this ain't it -- so I find the repeated use of it, as if there's some some sort of official significance involved, really annoying.

It's not a flagship; it's an already-gutted junk heap that (back when it was actually useful) someone decided to name after the U.S.. Restoring it would take immense amounts of money, money that I personally think would be more usefully spent on any of a million more practical and more historically significant historical preservation/restoration projects.
 
2012-10-06 06:06:36 PM  
Isn't that across the street from an Ikea?

Maybe they can open up a store in there. That way they can sell Swedish contemporary furniture made in China, on the United States.
 
2012-10-06 06:07:35 PM  

Isildur: Obviously the term "flagship" is commonly used metaphorically to describe all sorts of things as the foremost of their kinds, but for ships, the word has an actual specific meaning, and this ain't it -- so I find the repeated use of it, as if there's some some sort of official significance involved, really annoying.

It's not a flagship; it's an already-gutted junk heap that (back when it was actually useful) someone decided to name after the U.S.. Restoring it would take immense amounts of money, money that I personally think would be more usefully spent on any of a million more practical and more historically significant historical preservation/restoration projects.


ytrewq.com
 
2012-10-06 06:15:28 PM  
I do wonder if it will ever get to the point, because of gas prices or just because of the TSA, people will want to take boats to Europe or Asia? Not talking about luxury cruises, just willing to take two weeks to get there to save money.

/Then again two weeks worth of a room and food might add up.
 
2012-10-06 06:18:54 PM  
Maybe as a civilization we will move forward when we stop wasting billions of dollars preserving useless crap and spend that money where its needed.
 
2012-10-06 06:23:27 PM  
Taking a quick look at the photos, it looks like it's too far gone to save. It they had tried saving it 20 years ago, it would have been a successful effort.
 
2012-10-06 06:29:03 PM  

DSF6969: Not true. Norwegian Cruise Line's Pride of America is a US-flagged cruise ship that sails the Hawaiian Islands and has an entirely US and unionized crew.


Norwegian really pulled a fast one to get that, they bought the S.S. United States and promised to rebuild it in Philly for jobs but they needed a US flagged ship first so they got a special exemption since to be a US flagged ship has to be built in the US The bought the United States and 2 half finished cruise ships and convinced congress to exempt one of their previously existing ships, then they sent the half finished ships to Norway for completion and let the United States rot.
 
2012-10-06 06:33:32 PM  
I have to agree that I'm not sure it's worthy of salvation. It's got some historical significance, but, well, Philly also has the USS Olympia, which was Admiral Dewey's flagship during the Battle of Manila Bay in the Spanish-American War. It's a gorgeous ship:

farm4.staticflickr.com

farm4.staticflickr.com

farm4.staticflickr.com

And she's been in the water without any hull upkeep for far, far too long. The museum foundation which serves as her legal steward can't afford the upkeep,and they're shopping her around to see if anyone wants to take her and preserve her as a museum, or maybe to sink her as a reef or just to scrap her.

Given the choice between saving one of those ships, I'd really pick the Olympia.
 
2012-10-06 06:34:22 PM  

Tom_Slick: DSF6969: Not true. Norwegian Cruise Line's Pride of America is a US-flagged cruise ship that sails the Hawaiian Islands and has an entirely US and unionized crew.

Norwegian really pulled a fast one to get that, they bought the S.S. United States and promised to rebuild it in Philly for jobs but they needed a US flagged ship first so they got a special exemption since to be a US flagged ship has to be built in the US The bought the United States and 2 half finished cruise ships and convinced congress to exempt one of their previously existing ships, then they sent the half finished ships to Norway for completion and let the United States rot.


What are you, some kind of socialist?
 
2012-10-06 06:48:54 PM  

Enemabag Jones: I do wonder if it will ever get to the point, because of gas prices or just because of the TSA, people will want to take boats to Europe or Asia? Not talking about luxury cruises, just willing to take two weeks to get there to save money.

/Then again two weeks worth of a room and food might add up.


You can hitch a ride on cargo ships, but that's hardly mass transit.
 
2012-10-06 06:53:56 PM  

Enemabag Jones: I do wonder if it will ever get to the point, because of gas prices or just because of the TSA, people will want to take boats to Europe or Asia? Not talking about luxury cruises, just willing to take two weeks to get there to save money.

/Then again two weeks worth of a room and food might add up.


It only took five days each way for USA>Europe.

I took about 10 trans-Atlantic trips in the late 50s and early 60s, because my father worked for the State Department and it was much less expensive to pay ship fare for our family than to pay for plane trips (jets were relatively rare; once they were common, then the bottom dropped out of the trans-Atlantic market). The docks in Manhattan were like Grand Central Station in those days, with multiple ocean liners arriving and departing every day.

They were utilitarian trips, not "luxurious", at least not on the American lines, although the word Luxury was used to describe them. The accommodations were rather plain and spartan, even in First Class. Grace Kelly took the SS Constitution from New York to Monaco for her wedding, but photos of her during transit show that it was rather sedate. The activities were dull too: shuffleboard, swimming in the pool, bridge games, play groups for the kids. The food was delicious, but it wasn't a competition to gorge as much as possible.

My father once saw the Duke and Duchess of Windsor strolling the decks of the United States, and then saw them once in the dining room during that trip, and even they had just basic First Class accommodations. The goal was to get from point A to point B, not to have an orgasmic blast of overconsumption every waking moment.
 
2012-10-06 06:57:58 PM  
If it's done with private money given voluntarily, I don't care.
 
2012-10-06 06:58:56 PM  

DSF6969: Not true. Norwegian Cruise Line's Pride of America is a US-flagged cruise ship that sails the Hawaiian Islands and has an entirely US and unionized crew.


Shame that ship is the exception and not the rule - which can be fixed by providing a significant (read: something that can't be passed down) penalty for each ship with a flag of convenience.
 
2012-10-06 07:08:46 PM  

Enemabag Jones: I do wonder if it will ever get to the point, because of gas prices or just because of the TSA, people will want to take boats to Europe or Asia? Not talking about luxury cruises, just willing to take two weeks to get there to save money.

/Then again two weeks worth of a room and food might add up.


Not because of fuel prices. Cruise ships are among the least fuel-efficient vehicles around; even jetliners do better.
 
2012-10-06 07:31:22 PM  

DSF6969: Not true. Norwegian Cruise Line's Pride of America is a US-flagged cruise ship that sails the Hawaiian Islands and has an entirely US and unionized crew.

Pride of America

was towed to Germany to be finished with the hull only half-complete, so while it is U.S.-flagged, I wouldn't consider it U.S.-built.

SockMonkeyHolocaust: But at the end of the day it is just a transport ship. I don't get why people are so gung ho to throw money at it. Especially not the amounts that have already been wasted on it.


One could ask the same questions regarding the transport ships Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavour, but no one seems to have an issue with the hundreds of millions being spent for their preservation and display. I would argue that the United States has comparable historical value (and Olympia too, for that matter).  I personally have no idea why this country doesn't seem to place much value on preserving its history.
 
2012-10-06 07:55:24 PM  
My father once saw the Duke and Duchess of Windsor strolling goosestepping the decks of the United States, and then saw them once in the dining room during that trip, and even they had just basic Iron Cross, First Class accommodations. 

There. That's better.
 
2012-10-06 07:57:01 PM  

cgremlin: ).  I personally have no idea why this country doesn't seem to place much value on preserving its history.


I'm not sure what you're talking about, here. There are a *lot* of museum ships around, literally dozens, spanning a period from the USS Constitution to the Hiddensee. Okay, there's actually one even earlier than the Constitution, and that last one isn't even really "our" history, but that's just museum *ships*, not museums or parks at the state or national levels. We preserve enormous amounts of our history, and the fact that one foundation is having trouble finding donors for one particular ship of, let's face it, a significance that's middling *at best*, doesn't mean this country doesn't place much value on preserving its history.

We obviously can't preserve *all* our history, so the fact that we discuss what's worth saving doesn't mean that we don't value it.
 
2012-10-06 08:06:49 PM  

r1niceboy: insertsnarkyusername: Yes because pumping millions of dollars into an old ship that we have no use for is a much better investment then say spending that money on education, roads, space, paying down the debt, etc. Sell it for scrap and be done with it.

it's a metaphor for the actual United States, hence some people wanting to save it and others wanting to render it down.


It's a junker, it's not a metaphor. It's a literal problem that we should deal with and can easily deal with..
 
2012-10-06 10:47:47 PM  

gweilo8888: AlwaysRightBoy: Every time I pass her watching her waist away is just sad.

ha-ha-guy: I've seen it in person and it is said to see it rusting there.

I morn for the litter racy of my fellow Farkers.


This !
 
2012-10-06 10:50:25 PM  

Morgellons: Enemabag Jones: I do wonder if it will ever get to the point, because of gas prices or just because of the TSA, people will want to take boats to Europe or Asia? Not talking about luxury cruises, just willing to take two weeks to get there to save money.

/Then again two weeks worth of a room and food might add up.

You can hitch a ride on cargo ships, but that's hardly mass transit.


And due to the ever-decreasing number of cargo lines willing to take on passengers, and the very limited number of berths available to begin with, it costs about as much as taking a cruise line anyway.
 
2012-10-06 11:06:10 PM  
soooo, what you're saying is, the ss united states is suffering the same fate as the united states? just slowly rusting away?
 
2012-10-06 11:33:04 PM  
either take it out and sink her or - rebuild the interior as a hotel -- drag it up to New York and park it next to Intrpid and can do a whole theme
 
2012-10-07 12:45:46 AM  
I am not sure how big of a military ship can fit up the St Lawrence through the locks but I think it would be cool to get an old destroyer or cruiser and sail it around the great lakes and do shows for the 4th and fire blanks in the guns. I have no idea if it would be self supporting or not.
 
2012-10-07 04:28:41 AM  

RickN99: insertsnarkyusername: Yes because pumping millions of dollars into an old ship that we have no use for is a much better investment then say spending that money on education, roads, space, paying down the debt, etc. Sell it for scrap and be done with it.

I don't understand how my donation to a charity will change how much the local school board spends on the schools. I'm pretty sure I still have to pay sales, property, income, payroll, etc taxes whether I send in $50 or not..


It won't but think of it as deciding between spending 50 bucks on your gas bill or a bottle of nice whiskey. One feels great for a little while and one actually does something for you.
 
2012-10-07 05:49:14 AM  

cgremlin: One could ask the same questions regarding the transport ships Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavour, but no one seems to have an issue with the hundreds of millions being spent for their preservation and display. I would argue that the United States has comparable historical value (and Olympia too, for that matter).  I personally have no idea why this country doesn't seem to place much value on preserving its history.


Seriously? You would argue the United States has comparable historical value to both Olympia and the shuttles?

Do you think you could do so successfully? Because I'd enjoy seeing that. I've read all the stuff in TFA and this thread, and I can't see the United States as even remotely close.

She's historic, certainly, but Olympia and the shuttles both made noticeable changes in the world. What did SS United States do, besides setting a speed record and being of interesting construction?
 
2012-10-07 02:28:21 PM  
Taken today October 7th:
i768.photobucket.com 

In person, and even in this condition... the SS United States is still an awesome sight.
 
2012-10-07 06:58:58 PM  

Enemabag Jones: I do wonder if it will ever get to the point, because of gas prices or just because of the TSA, people will want to take boats to Europe or Asia? Not talking about luxury cruises, just willing to take two weeks to get there to save money.

/Then again two weeks worth of a room and food might add up.


The TSA already has its fingers in passenger ships.

Ship travel would be cheaper if you have the time, and if the ship and food cost is less than other travel, hotel, and food costs. Time is a factor because many people who are traveling that far can earn more than the airfare cost in two weeks of work. If you're trying to save money, you should choose the cheaper route, and now that seems to be discount airfare.
 
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