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(Daily Mail)   A 12-year-old schoolgirl has been accepted into Mensa after discovering she is brainier than both Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 205
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18274 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Oct 2012 at 2:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-06 11:20:22 AM

COMALite J: Mensa isn′t even the most exclusive intellectual society. It′s actually one of the least exclusive. You only need to be in the top 2%, which means that out of the ~300 million people in the USA, about six million would qualify. Big whoop.

The Four Sigma Society, for instance, requires that you be a minimum of four standard deviations to the right of the mean. And they′re not the most exclusive either.

Mensa ― where you have to be smart enough to score reasonably high on an I.Q. test, yet stupid enough to plunk down annual dues for little more than what basically amounts to bragging rights.


Someone sounds like they flunked the mensa test
 
2012-10-06 11:24:37 AM
If she is so smart why is she carrying that huge stack of books, and not having some guy do it for her, in fact what the hell is she doing with books anyway in the information age not smart enough to get a kindle?
 
2012-10-06 11:55:52 AM
Hey Mensoids... have you cured AIDS? Cured Cancer? Solved the problem of global economic inequality? Then shut the fark up, we're not impressed.
 
2012-10-06 12:05:38 PM

DreamSnipers: Lionel Mandrake: Well, then. I look forward to reading her groundbreaking work in the coming years. Or not.

Exactly, give me a call when she does something that surpasses Einsteins or Hawkings contributions, Einstein in particular with general and special relativity stands as the greatest mind since Newton.


Einstein's first wife helped him with the math.
 
2012-10-06 12:09:32 PM

intelligent comment below: omeganuepsilon: That's because people shoot for the stars and get in over their heads, another effect of what I mentioned above. SO MANY applicants, the actually capable ones are hard to locate or simply not applying to that job.


You are misunderstanding me. A desk job doesn't need to be "over your head" to be stressful. Most desk jobs these days are you doing the work of 2-4 people. The higher up you go the more your decisions affect others. You also have to manage people below you, and managing people who aren't that bright is stressful by itself. Most people are drama queens who resort to high school attitudes of cliques and gossip and all that nonsense.


No, I am not.

For just about every person fed up with their job's problems, there is some one else out there who could do it well, and easily, AND enjoy life outside of work, not be this brain dazzled zombie that you try to pretend is the absolute rule of the universe for that job.

Besides, your example is more about people skills from the vague sound of it(of which you apparently have none if you so intimately know this "problem), rather than intelligence(of which you apparently have a shortage of as well since you cannot follow a quite simple conversation and think you are "misunderstood").
 
2012-10-06 12:14:45 PM
Einstein never took an IQ test.
 
2012-10-06 12:25:29 PM
IQ huh?

I'll save my kudos for people who invent, discover or organize things that help humanity.

I could give a crap about some dumbass test a bunch of self appointed 'geniuses' put together.
 
2012-10-06 12:27:56 PM

LeGnome: Hey Mensoids... have you cured AIDS? Cured Cancer? Solved the problem of global economic inequality? Then shut the fark up, we're not impressed.


I hear they kick butt on crossword puzzles.
 
2012-10-06 12:31:56 PM

cryinoutloud: Why is it that every IQ thread around here seems to touch a great many nerves? My mother was right--she never told me my IQ score. Said it wouldn't be good for my head. All these years later, I'm glad I don't know. No, I've never been tested since I was an adult.

/Not going to tell my son what his is either.


It's a method of telling some people they are innately 'better' than other people. It SHOULD rile people up. Considering it seems to have no real world evidence, it also needs to be ridiculed.
 
2012-10-06 12:40:03 PM

Raiden333: Jim_Callahan: Lionel Mandrake: Well, then. I look forward to reading her groundbreaking work in the coming years. Or not.

That. MENSA membership is more an indication that you're gullible enough for the "special club" scam than anything meaningful. At least IQ itself is trying to be meaningful (and just failing).

Admittedly I facepalm a lot less at the 12-year-old joining than usual, tweens are supposed to be obsessed with stupid clique bullshiat.

I hate to say it, but THIS.

I got into Mensa at age 14. I'm not even kidding, I'll take a picture of my old membership card if anyone calls me a liar. And yeah, that's why I joined, because I thought I was hot shiat and smarter than everyone and wanted to prove it to the world. I stopped paying my membership dues within two years because I went to a few meetings and read the letters section in the Mensa Bulletin and realized that just because you're really really good at taking certain kinds of tests mean you're a stable individual worth knowing. Honestly, the letters in the Mensa Bulletin were crazier than the letters to the editor in my small town's local newspaper.

You want to know what the Mensa test consisted of when I took it?

1. Straight analogies, ala the SAT.
2. Picture analogies. Same thing as section 1, but with pictures instead of words.
3. On the left side is a list of ammounts of money. On the right side is a list of numbers of coins (A. 2 quarters, 1 penny, 5 dimes, 3 nickels). You have to match them up as quickly as possible.
4. We got read a story about the history of greek stagecraft and Dionysus, and had to answer questions about details we remembered from listening to the story.

IMO the true IQ test is realizing that Mensa is bullshiat once you're in it and deciding to not give them $50 a year for the "bragging right" of being a mensa member.


The Mensa Bulletin pretty much did it for me. .
 
2012-10-06 12:44:43 PM

kmoser: [www.instantattitudes.com image 300x186]


That can only possibly work if u = e to start with, at which point you're just playing with yourself anyway =/
 
2012-10-06 12:47:46 PM

starsrift: Kind of weird that the Daily Fail chooses two scientists who, although they were certainly very bright, and brighter than most, were examples of extreme application of their intelligence versus innate ability.

Isn't there that guy with a 206 IQ that works for NASA and nobody bothers to remember his name because he hasn't done anything standout yet?


I think you mean this guy: Chris Hirata
 
2012-10-06 12:53:08 PM
I was given an IQ test when I was 12. I scored 164. Since then I've done everything I could do to kill those brain cells. I'm now an atheist, alcoholic dope-smoker with homicidal tendencies and a penchant for young Asian girls dressed up like cats and a deep-seated fear of mimes.

If I had started out with an IQ of 103, I wouldn't be the awesome guy I am today. Ladies, I'm available... and my Mom has a big guest room we could move into. It's bigger than the room I'm in now. Must like ferrets.
 
2012-10-06 01:01:14 PM
She said: 'A lot more people are coming up to me asking for help with their homework.'

Typical farking freeloader dregs of society. Always some monkey trying to leech off of her abilities. I hope she can get away from there as soon as possible.
 
2012-10-06 01:17:03 PM
Teacher and club organiser Stacey Meighen joked: 'We have given her extra work to do and will now want to know why she's not getting As in everything.'

F*ck you. The girl does not need extra work but differentiated work which increases complexity, depth, or pace of material. Further, low scores, lack of completion on assignments, etc., are common amongst gifted students because the material is not appropriate to them and is therefore boring and worthless. What this tells me is she is kept on grade level work with the assumption she will flourish as a result of generating an identity of achievement which is counter to what we know about gifted social and emotional development.

Being a Mensa club organizer means you should know something about this. Being a teacher means you should know something about this. Why don't you?

Hawnkee: Typical farking freeloader dregs of society. Always some monkey trying to leech off of her abilities. I hope she can get away from there as soon as possible.


This is probably pressed a little by the teacher, too. Teachers frequently exploit the abilities of students in teaching or reteaching concepts to other students rather than enriching or extending or otherwise accelerating the content.

Aquapope: a penchant for young Asian girls dressed up like cats and a deep-seated fear of mimes.


How to dress up in a fear of mimes?
 
2012-10-06 01:36:32 PM

jeremie: Our local MENSA guy mows lawns for a living. Having a great a great mind means nothing if you're not smart enough to harness it.


True.

However, having a great mind sometimes means figuring out what makes you happy and setting yourself up to be able to do it.

Some people find yard work (especially if you have a ride on mower) to be very relaxing and enjoyable. He might be one of those folks and now gets paid to do it. As a bonus, he's even a productive member of society.

It's a win-win.

/had an older janitor in high school who graduated when he was 15 (back in the day)
//he was a janitor because he enjoyed interacting with the kids, not because he needed the money.
 
2012-10-06 01:37:45 PM

hitlersbrain: It's a method of telling some people they are innately 'better' than other people. It SHOULD rile people up. Considering it seems to have no real world evidence, it also needs to be ridiculed.


Then why even discuss it? See, that's what I love--everyone making fun of how we score "intelligence"--but lording it over others if they happen to do well on the test and making sure to mention the number at the same time they're ranting about how it means nothing. Because someone scored higher than THEY did.
 
2012-10-06 01:39:00 PM

Vangor: Aquapope: a penchant for young Asian girls dressed up like cats and a deep-seated fear of mimes.

How to dress up in a fear of mimes?


Curled up in a fuzzy cat-ball, ignoring the invisible wall and the non-existent wind, of course.
Yeah, I needed a comma or I needed to reorganize that sentence. But still, mimes suck and Asian cat-girls are kinda cute.
 
2012-10-06 01:42:13 PM

Aquapope: Yeah, I needed a comma or I needed to reorganize that sentence. But still, mimes suck and Asian cat-girls are kinda cute.


Well, you'll notice my comment was not exactly grammatically correct, either. I do agree, mimes suck and Asian girls are kinda cute, cat-girls in general.

Better, the new term for a group of mimes is "fear"; similar to how one has a "pride of lions" or "murder of crows", this would be a "fear of mimes".
 
2012-10-06 01:58:59 PM

Vangor: Better, the new term for a group of mimes is "fear"; similar to how one has a "pride of lions" or "murder of crows", this would be a "fear of mimes".


"Fear of mimes" I like it. But I think I'd like better the crow collective. A murder of crows. A murder of mimes. Even if the mimes aren't murdered, it sounds calming and good. If the mimes are murdered, well then, we all win!
 
2012-10-06 02:07:02 PM

COMALite J: Mensa isn′t even the most exclusive intellectual society. It′s actually one of the least exclusive. You only need to be in the top 2%, which means that out of the ~300 million people in the USA, about six million would qualify. Big whoop.

The Four Sigma Society, for instance, requires that you be a minimum of four standard deviations to the right of the mean. And they′re not the most exclusive either.

Mensa ― where you have to be smart enough to score reasonably high on an I.Q. test, yet stupid enough to plunk down annual dues for little more than what basically amounts to bragging rights.



Hey, that's smart and funny.

/nobody likes an insecure brainiac.
 
2012-10-06 02:21:29 PM

MajorGroove: I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of change that this is the last the world hears of her.

My brother outscored me on IQ testing when we were kids. I'm a doctor; he's a barista. He's still unbelievably brilliant, and I'm certain that he is smarter than me, but brilliance does not equal motivation.


Or the kid wanting to do anything that would lead to brilliance. This girl might want to be a novelist, or firefighter, or something else that, well, isn't math. And then everyone will complain about wasted talent.

/And that's if the parents don't fark her up...
//Isn't life grand?
 
2012-10-06 02:30:06 PM

cryinoutloud: hitlersbrain: It's a method of telling some people they are innately 'better' than other people. It SHOULD rile people up. Considering it seems to have no real world evidence, it also needs to be ridiculed.

Then why even discuss it? See, that's what I love--everyone making fun of how we score "intelligence"--but lording it over others if they happen to do well on the test and making sure to mention the number at the same time they're ranting about how it means nothing. Because someone scored higher than THEY did.


Mocking a flawed method of finding guessing at intelligence(IQ) is not devaluing actual intelligence or the benefit to society an accurate measure of ability would be.

Discussing why the IQ measurement is bunk is key to finding a better way. A lot of people in this thread specifically don't mention their own score, or do so in passing ( an instance of why it's ridiculous).
 
2012-10-06 02:37:06 PM
Any particular reason for the animosity toward this girl? She doesn't come off as a biatch.
 
2012-10-06 02:38:47 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Any particular reason for the animosity toward this girl? She doesn't come off as a biatch.


Welcome to Fark!
 
2012-10-06 02:40:51 PM

omeganuepsilon: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Any particular reason for the animosity toward this girl? She doesn't come off as a biatch.

Welcome to Fark!


Yeah, I guess. I get the comedic value of the intentionally-overly-sexist jokes, but a lot of people actually seem like they're upset about this.
 
2012-10-06 02:48:35 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: omeganuepsilon: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Any particular reason for the animosity toward this girl? She doesn't come off as a biatch.

Welcome to Fark!

Yeah, I guess. I get the comedic value of the intentionally-overly-sexist jokes, but a lot of people actually seem like they're upset about this.


Again, welcome to fark.

People like that are why I never clicked the politics tab, and now they're spreading and occupying every thread, including minor drivel like this(the article, not the girl, because really "look here's a smart kid" is not a news story).

More and more random every day whackos are finding that they can speak their mind on the internet, to include fark, with impunity. I can see the allure, the anonymity granting all kinds of things. I use it to be a snarky asshole, but many others use it to display their, well, bigotry and obsession. That anonymity grants the poster a certain credit, in that he's now an equal, one individual voice, no longer needing the approval of the masses to speak out.

Places like fark are more and more short lived as a gathering place for more intellectual discourse.
 
2012-10-06 03:46:02 PM
jeremie: Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.

LeafyGreens: You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.


I used to work full time loading and unloading trucks. Doesn't get much more physical than that. It wasn't wonderful, but it wasn't hell, either. Biggest advantage, perhaps, was that you could let your body fall into a kind of groove and your mind could roam pretty freely. Sometimes I miss it.

Just because you prefer things one way doesn't mean that everybody does, nor does someone liking something you don't necessarily mean that they don't know it as well as you do. That's presumptuous, and while it's common enough on Fark, it doesn't do either of you any good.
 
2012-10-06 04:05:10 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: If I might weigh in, I think "subject to change" is more to the point than either "skewed" or "less accurate".

The tested IQ of a 30 year old will probably not change much in the next 20 years of life. The tested IQ of a 12 year old could potentially go either up or down by a considerable margin in the next 10 years.


Well, it's something a lot of people disagree about. There's a "nature versus nurture" debate there, where some people claim (and can come up with some studies that back them up) that a person's IQ score measures something innate, largely genetic, that is set by age 6 (or earlier!) and will not change much over time. But there are also quite a number of people in the "nurture" camp who argue that a 12-year-old's intelligence is not yet set in stone and there's still plenty of opportunity to either stunt it or enhance it. And they, too, have studies to back them up.

The general scientific consensus, meanwhile, SEEMs to be that the truth lies somewhere in the middle and that both "nature" and "nurture" play significant roles. But it's not yet a decided question.

To get to a more specific example of the IQ score of a person at 12 versus that same person's IQ score at age 30, you do see some variation. But the question is, are the different scores different because the person's intelligence ACTUALLY changed, or is the difference in scores mostly due to inaccuracy (or imprecision or bias) in the childhood tests? Or, for that matter, what about inaccuracy or imprecision or bias in the adult tests? Both sides of the arguments can point to the same studies and same facts and claim that they bolster their argument.

It's also complicated by the fact that bigots will use the position that intelligence is mostly innate (and probably genetic) to defend racism. The entire position, whatever scientific validity it may have, is tainted by that association. There's a book by Stephen J. Gould called "The Mismeasure of Man" that's worth reading if you're interested -- though take it with a grain of salt if you do read it, as I personally think Gould takes some liberties with the facts to make his arguments seem more convincing that they really are.
 
2012-10-06 04:09:22 PM
Not a member of Mensa.

/I'm fine with this.
 
2012-10-06 04:18:47 PM
Pumpernickel bread: I can't help but wonder if being a member of the mensa's problem solving club helped her score in the same way sat review courses help with that test. Perhaps she is just really smart and prepared for that specific test, and not a super genius along the lines of Einstein and hawking. And if she is that smart, she is now burdened by enormous expectations. If she "just" becomes a doctor or lawyer, she will be regarded as underachieving

starsrift: If you read TFA, I'd be more suspicious of eidetic memory. She memorizes her part for a play within 24 hrs.

Eidetic memory always screws up IQ test results.


Probably not, for two main reasons. First because eidetic memory, in the sense that I think you mean, is largely a myth. People who can flip through a book and then recite the entire thing from first word to last do not actually exist.

Second, because there are IQ tests written such that fantastic memory would not be of great help. If you think someone's reported IQ score was skewed because of something like a cultural bias, language barrier, or eidetic memory, then you give them a test that factors that element out, and you compare scores. If the second score is substantially different from the first score, then you were right, and the person had a significant advantage or disadvantage that skewed the test. If the two scores are virtually identical, then there was probably never any significant advantage or disadvantage.
 
2012-10-06 04:44:39 PM
IQ is a meaningless number.
 
2012-10-06 04:47:04 PM

Bucky Katt: IQ is a meaningless number.


1 is the loneliest number.
 
2012-10-06 05:09:27 PM

ciberido: jeremie: Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.

LeafyGreens: You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.

I used to work full time loading and unloading trucks. Doesn't get much more physical than that. It wasn't wonderful, but it wasn't hell, either. Biggest advantage, perhaps, was that you could let your body fall into a kind of groove and your mind could roam pretty freely. Sometimes I miss it.

Just because you prefer things one way doesn't mean that everybody does, nor does someone liking something you don't necessarily mean that they don't know it as well as you do. That's presumptuous, and while it's common enough on Fark, it doesn't do either of you any good.


Personal taste aside. Thought is not difficult and does not usually yield pain. Stress above an accustomed level, maybe, but even at that it's not worse than putting strain on the physical body above what it's conditioned to.

It's the absolute of absolutes present in that original post that makes it contemptible. Plenty of smarter people not only find thought easy, but enjoyable. Plenty of working men find a manual labor job enjoyable as well.

Each sort of job has it's ups and downs, and a certain amount of either sort of effort is going to be detrimental to the person doing the work. Physical detriments though, certainly tend to be more permanent and are easy to achieve, full on mental fracture from stress is not all that common.
 
2012-10-06 05:58:06 PM

omeganuepsilon: It's the absolute of absolutes present in that original post that makes it contemptible. Plenty of smarter people not only find thought easy, but enjoyable. Plenty of working men find a manual labor job enjoyable as well.


I guess I'm one of the few people who read "putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work" completely differently. I assume we're talking about the difference between manual labor and academic work. In which case, breaking into academia requires four years of college, another 3-5 years of graduate school, novel research, a dissertation, and an oral exam. Working in manual labor requires being old enough to be allowed to work in manual labor (specialized training notwithstanding). The amount of time, money, and effort you have to front-load for a brain-job is huge compared to a brawn-job. That's what I figured he was getting at; the more intelligent sibling may have looked at all the bullshiat you have to go through in order to work in academia and decided "fark all of that", and went to work in something that pays the bills and doesn't require you to devote the next decade toward getting your foot in the door.
 
2012-10-06 06:21:05 PM

Jim_Callahan: Not been to school or had a kid there in a while, eh? Iirc basic series notation is somewhere in the grade school/Jr. High level nowadays.


Well I'm a recent college graduate but yeah, it has been quite a while since I was in grade school. I didn't learn sigma notation until I took Calculus in college. I suppose it could be introduced early in algebra, but none of my classes did so. Not that I'd be against such a thing -- I do think they should introduce more complex mathematical concepts earlier.
 
2012-10-06 06:48:48 PM

Zon: And all that tells me is that you were stupid enough to join.


What part of "16" didn't you understand?
 
Zon
2012-10-06 08:14:39 PM

clyph: Zon: And all that tells me is that you were stupid enough to join.

What part of "16" didn't you understand?


What part of "were" didn't you understand?
 
2012-10-06 09:18:36 PM
I thought that a high I.Q. meant only that one was proficient in the proffering of I.Q. tests.
 
2012-10-06 09:25:03 PM

trappedspirit: COMALite J: Mensa isn′t even the most exclusive intellectual society. It′s actually one of the least exclusive. You only need to be in the top 2%, which means that out of the ~300 million people in the USA, about six million would qualify. Big whoop.

The Four Sigma Society, for instance, requires that you be a minimum of four standard deviations to the right of the mean. And they′re not the most exclusive either.

Mensa ― where you have to be smart enough to score reasonably high on an I.Q. test, yet stupid enough to plunk down annual dues for little more than what basically amounts to bragging rights.

Someone sounds like they flunked the mensa test


Actually, I passed it easily. I just never joined.
 
2012-10-06 09:48:10 PM

omeganuepsilon: LouDobbsAwaaaay: omeganuepsilon: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Any particular reason for the animosity toward this girl? She doesn't come off as a biatch.

Welcome to Fark!

Yeah, I guess. I get the comedic value of the intentionally-overly-sexist jokes, but a lot of people actually seem like they're upset about this.

Again, welcome to fark.

People like that are why I never clicked the politics tab, and now they're spreading and occupying every thread, including minor drivel like this(the article, not the girl, because really "look here's a smart kid" is not a news story).

More and more random every day whackos are finding that they can speak their mind on the internet, to include fark, with impunity. I can see the allure, the anonymity granting all kinds of things. I use it to be a snarky asshole, but many others use it to display their, well, bigotry and obsession. That anonymity grants the poster a certain credit, in that he's now an equal, one individual voice, no longer needing the approval of the masses to speak out.

Places like fark are more and more short lived as a gathering place for more intellectual discourse.


I never suspected that fark was a place for serious intellectual discourse...it happens by accident on occasion, and that's good.

I always figured it was a place to throw snark around and enjoy weird jokes.

Now, granted that snark and those jokes aren't funny when someone is just trying to find a way to show the world that they are bigoted morons who figured out how to work a series of tubes.
 
2012-10-06 10:38:18 PM

pippi longstocking: Einstein never took an IQ test.


He never used a telescope.
 
2012-10-06 10:56:39 PM

Deep Contact: pippi longstocking: Einstein never took an IQ test.

He never used a telescope.


Badasses don't need tools to do science.
 
2012-10-07 12:34:16 AM

omeganuepsilon: No, I am not.

For just about every person fed up with their job's problems, there is some one else out there who could do it well, and easily, AND enjoy life outside of work, not be this brain dazzled zombie that you try to pretend is the absolute rule of the universe for that job.

Besides, your example is more about people skills from the vague sound of it(of which you apparently have none if you so intimately know this "problem), rather than intelligence(of which you apparently have a shortage of as well since you cannot follow a quite simple conversation and think you are "misunderstood").



You're boring and overanalyzing, putting words in my mouth, all because you're desperate to come across as "smarter"

if you honestly believe that if you are stressed with your job then you just aren't smart enough, as you have claimed, then you have no real job experience in the first place.

"people skills" has nothing to do with it. Managing people is stressful by itself, regardless of how good your people skills are. That's strike 3 with you, I'm done feeding a blatant troll.
 
2012-10-07 12:36:37 AM

omeganuepsilon: More and more random every day whackos are finding that they can speak their mind on the internet, to include fark, with impunity. I can see the allure, the anonymity granting all kinds of things. I use it to be a snarky asshole, but many others use it to display their, well, bigotry and obsession. That anonymity grants the poster a certain credit, in that he's now an equal, one individual voice, no longer needing the approval of the masses to speak out.



translation: I was just as bad (still are) but it's okay when I do it
 
2012-10-07 01:01:48 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: omeganuepsilon: It's the absolute of absolutes present in that original post that makes it contemptible. Plenty of smarter people not only find thought easy, but enjoyable. Plenty of working men find a manual labor job enjoyable as well.

I guess I'm one of the few people who read "putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work" completely differently. I assume we're talking about the difference between manual labor and academic work. In which case, breaking into academia requires four years of college, another 3-5 years of graduate school, novel research, a dissertation, and an oral exam. Working in manual labor requires being old enough to be allowed to work in manual labor (specialized training notwithstanding). The amount of time, money, and effort you have to front-load for a brain-job is huge compared to a brawn-job. That's what I figured he was getting at; the more intelligent sibling may have looked at all the bullshiat you have to go through in order to work in academia and decided "fark all of that", and went to work in something that pays the bills and doesn't require you to devote the next decade toward getting your foot in the door.


You're oversimplifying one side down to "manual labor" and the other requiring a very specific education.

There are entry level jobs in both vague fields. Yeah, you can dig ditches, to start, and you can also be some secretary or errand boy.

Both brawn and brain jobs have higher paying jobs though, and they both require fair educations + experience(though sometimes in largely different ratios). Relegating either to "harder" and implying the other easier, as an absolute, is preposterous. Sure, education is a preload, but often there is not necessarily as much OJT as required in a typical trade skill where it can take years or even decades to build up qualifications to operate specific equipment.

Most trade skill jobs that require physical fitness are not so much ditch digging jobs, but skilled professionals in their own right. You can't just walk in to a vast majority of those jobs at any given level and perform if you're physically fit, any more than those guys could simply be a lawyer one day if they had a high enough IQ.

The ditch digger sort of unskilled manual labor is actually a fairly small part of non-intellectual career paths, and typically filled with people that do it because they have no other options. Similarly, so is the part of being a professional substitute or temp secretary.

It's almost as if people, even in this supposedly intellectual thread, actually think "those jobs" are lesser non important things. Sound like a bunch of spoiled narcissistic prigs. As a hypothetical, let's let all "those" jobs suddenly vanish overnight. Power plants shut down, sewers back up, buildings fall into filth and disrepair, etc. Butchers, farmers, truck drivers gone....zero food coming into the cities. That's where the bear shiats in the buckwheat, so to speak. It would be a very rapid decline into a sort of dystopia.

Oh what's that? Those jobs are just fine, just not for you? . o O ( Ew, ick! ) O o .

Yeah, whatever, keep trying to make yourselves sound more important than everyone else, work harder than everyone else, and that your shiat smells like roses.

/not necessarily to you, you did exclude (specialized training)
// but you do still make the comparison to the minority, as it were
 
2012-10-07 01:05:25 AM

intelligent comment below: Managing people is stressful by itself, regardless of how good your people skills are. That's strike 3 with you, I'm done feeding a blatant troll.


Ha, HA!

Yeah, I'm the troll.

intelligent comment below: You're boring


Which is why you repeatedly reply to me.
 
2012-10-07 01:18:45 AM

omeganuepsilon: Yeah, I'm the troll.



Yes, you are. You actually believe anyone who is stressed at work is just not that smart.

This is your reply for "stressed out desk job"


omeganuepsilon: That's because people shoot for the stars and get in over their heads, another effect of what I mentioned above. SO MANY applicants, the actually capable ones are hard to locate or simply not applying to that job.


Yup, either a troll, or just very stupid
 
2012-10-07 04:18:18 AM
I know the patterns, so rather than read ALL the comments, here's what people are saying above:

> "Mensans are elitist arrogant dummies. They brag about being in Mensa and pay the dues, but they're really not that smart and they're awkward." "yeah, I qualified and joined as a tiny kid and didn't find it rewarding."

Heard it.

Our culture vilifies intelligence. The jock gets the girl and the geek gets tolerated only if he or she is useful in some way. People who use polysyllabic words or read books are weird in a bad way, as are people who spend time thinking or working on puzzles.

I've known several dozen Mensans, but I didn't know they were Mensans until years had passed. They were just, to my mind, ordinary people who were interested in more than the stupidest of TV shows (though often they liked those too) and other aggressively normal stuff.

I joined a little over a year ago, on a whim. I can afford it. Nobody knows I've joined except the people I meet when I go to one of the outings. Those people are considerate and friendly, and I've never seen or dealt with 'penis-measuring contests' like I have to deal with sometimes among the aggressively normal. I also don't get insulted or ostracized for using words like 'ostracize.'

Mensa wants to be many things, including a proto-thinktank for people to brainstorm the solutions to some of the world's problems. This hasn't really happened, but it's occasionally a successful social club. That's just fine.

The Mensa haters? I believe they spawn in one of two ways:

1) They met a teenage Mensan who was exceptionally annoying.

2) They're extremely insecure.

(The top 2% is not particularly exclusive and isn't meant to be. What's nice is not having to deal with the vocal, angry, and occasionally charismatic bottom 20% occasionally.)
 
2012-10-07 04:38:06 AM
img.photobucket.com

Not Impressed.

"Ever hear of Plato? Socrates? Olivia Manning? Morons!"
 
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