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(Daily Mail)   A 12-year-old schoolgirl has been accepted into Mensa after discovering she is brainier than both Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 205
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18278 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Oct 2012 at 2:04 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-06 02:50:14 AM  
Every couple of years they come out with these stories...like the kid who will be the 'next Mozart'! And you never farking hear from them again.
 
2012-10-06 02:52:07 AM  

mr lawson: jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it

 
2012-10-06 02:52:48 AM  

mr lawson: jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it


i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-06 02:52:49 AM  

FishyFred: IQ scores are skewed in the early years because, if I'm not mistaken, age is factored in.


Also, kids are smart. Adults find answers and put them together, but for solving new problems even scientists start to get sucky over time, and they have a system to follow.

Kids have nothing to go on but a tiny pool of experience, so their brains are REALLY good at dealing with new information and they can apply it outside of the normal ways as they don't even know what the normal ways are.
 
2012-10-06 02:54:33 AM  
I can't help but notice that the math she is doing is really not that complicated.
I've seen younger people do more interesting math. Her math is just integration. Anyone can do integration. I could teach a 6th grader integration. You really don't even need algebra.
 
2012-10-06 02:56:21 AM  

Rockstone: Her math is just integration. Anyone can do integration. I could teach a 6th grader integration. You really don't even need algebra.


Err..photo shoot dude. But the cameraman prob was very confused and impressed.
 
2012-10-06 02:56:30 AM  

Rockstone: I can't help but notice that the math she is doing is really not that complicated.
I've seen younger people do more interesting math. Her math is just integration. Anyone can do integration. I could teach a 6th grader integration. You really don't even need algebra.


Actually, I just looked at that, it's summation, not integration... 
My point still stands.
 
2012-10-06 02:56:31 AM  
I could join Mensa based on my LSAT scores but I don't really see the point. It seems like the sort of person who would join an organization to tell them they're smart isn't all that smart.
 
2012-10-06 02:58:04 AM  

doglover: as they don't even know what the normal ways are.


The best thing a parent can teach their kid is the scientific method. Teach it to them and let em loose.
 
2012-10-06 03:01:16 AM  

Rockstone: Actually, I just looked at that, it's summation, not integration...


basic calculus
 
2012-10-06 03:02:42 AM  

ciberido: The system is designed such that, if everything works correctly and it's accurate and it's precise, your IQ is the same forever.


Does this account for all the weed I smoked between the ages of 16-23?
 
2012-10-06 03:03:41 AM  
Standardized testing flaws? Check. Freaks in Mensa who are just misfits looking to excuse their condition with some bullshiat about intelligence? Also check.

Only thing I can add is anecdotal: I had a crush on a woman with a Ph.D once, and whenever I would try to engage her in conversation about some subjects, it would immediately become a contest about how much more she knew about a certain subject than I did. Brain chemistry? Sure, she knew it. Linux? She had built farms of machines, ready for use! Various other geekish things? Oh yeah. And while I was blinded to her behavior at first, I slowly realized that she had some issues of her own. Namely, the inability to really deal with people as people. Everything was a competition she had to win first, and the sense of being recognized as perfect in anything she touched was of prime importance.

And I think that's what fuels organizations like Mensa as well: the sense of being the top of the field, utterly perfect, and without flaw. Americans love the idea of being better than everybody else to the point where it's a mental illness. It's odd that an organization--an entity dedicated to meeting people and interacting with them--is dedicated to the idea of being anti-people, anti-socializing, and so utterly and painfully dedicated to acting as proxy self-esteem. Dedication to a subject has its benefits, but at some point it was taken too far.
 
2012-10-06 03:04:35 AM  
jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it


Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.
 
2012-10-06 03:05:56 AM  

prjindigo: Sounds like one wanted to be Righteous, the other has fantasies about authority and you just said "I wanna be happy."


Nah, I really did try to be more, and am still trying. I test super high on abstract intelligence tests, but I bombed my SATs, and most other kinds of testing where the proctor is looking for a specific defined answer.

Inferring trends and patterns is a useful trait that the education system doesn't like to showcase, because you can't give someone a diploma for lateral thinking.
 
2012-10-06 03:05:59 AM  

Guntram Shatterhand: Dedication to a subject has its benefits, but at some point it was taken too far.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-10-06 03:06:42 AM  

Harry_Seldon: ciberido: The system is designed such that, if everything works correctly and it's accurate and it's precise, your IQ is the same forever.

Does this account for all the weed I smoked between the ages of 16-23?


I have to admit I have to wonder how much lower my IQ might be now than it was back when I was in my late teens, due to some unfortunate things that have happened to my poor brain in the years since.
 
2012-10-06 03:07:40 AM  

jeremie: jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it


Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.


that is also possible...he could, in fact, just be lazy
 
2012-10-06 03:11:32 AM  

ciberido: FishyFred: IQ scores are skewed in the early years because, if I'm not mistaken, age is factored in.

Well, not in theory, at least. I wouldn't say so much that they're skewed as potentially less accurate.

Originally, IQ was supposed to be the ratio of a person's "mental age" to their "chronological age," so if Johnny was only 10 years old but could think and reason about as well as the average 14-year-old, he had an IQ score of 140 (14/10*100). But people quickly realized that that definition got very silly once a person reached adulthood. Would a twenty-year old who had the "mental age" of a 40-year-old have an IQ score of 200? And what does 'the "mental age" of a 40-year-old' even mean? We don't percieve the average 40-year-old to be "twice as smart as" the average 20-year-old the same way we perceive the average 14-year-old to be "twice as smart as" the average 7-year-old. Intelligence just doesn't progress that linearly.

So they gave up on "mental age" and redefined the IQ score as a measure of deviation from the mean intelligence, given the principle that intelligence is normally distributed (like a bell curve).

[upload.wikimedia.org image 325x163]

So a person with an IQ score of 115 is one standard deviation above the average for their age group, a person with a score of 130 is two standard deviations above. It is supposed to be adjusted for age group so that someone who has an IQ of 120 when they're 13 will still have an IQ of 120 when they're 33 (baring unforseen events such as brain damage, disease, injury, etc).

In theory, then, IQ scores are not skewed in the early years precisely because age is factored in. The system is designed such that, if everything works correctly and it's accurate and it's precise, your IQ is the same forever. But that only works because you're not so much measuring what the kids' IQ really is NOW so much as PREDICTING what it will be in adulthood, which adds another measure of uncertainty to the process.

(It's a little bit like issuing a speeding ticket based on a radar measurement of what your speed was 3 miles back and assuming that you didn't hit the brakes or stomp on the accelerator since then.)

I'm not sure that "skewed" is the right word for it, though, because that suggests a bias in one particular direction and I think it's more like imprecision.


This.

The imprecision comes from the fact that most of the verbal IQ score is based on basic knowledge questions. In a very literal sense, memorizing Trivial Pursuit answer cards can boost your IQ, but it probably isn't associated with a greater likelihood of success later in life.
 
2012-10-06 03:13:12 AM  

mr lawson: jeremie: jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it


Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.

that is also possible...he could, in fact, just be lazy


Thank you.
 
2012-10-06 03:14:40 AM  

jeremie: jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it


Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.


You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.
 
2012-10-06 03:17:32 AM  

COMALite J: Mensa ― where you have to be smart enough to score reasonably high on an I.Q. test, yet stupid enough to plunk down annual dues for little more than what basically amounts to bragging rights.


Not really. My mother was a member of mensa and I was asked to join. I didn't, but I went to meetings with my mother a few times. Mensa meetings were just a place for people with high IQs to get together and set up rather mundane activities such as: bowling, barbecues, picnics, movies, and so forth with other folks who had high IQs. They weren't trying to solve the mysteries of the universe or what not, they were just trying to arrange activities with other people who they were more likely to be able to relate to both during and after the events.

Being a member often resulted in negative responses from others; i.e. friends, family members, co-workers, and supervisors. As such, even mentioning membership, outside of the group, was discouraged.
 
2012-10-06 03:21:57 AM  

LeafyGreens: jeremie: jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it


Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.

You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.


Hey, why don't I just go eat some hay, make things out of clay, lay by the bay? I just may! What'd ya say?
 
2012-10-06 03:28:39 AM  

LeafyGreens: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7367030/79841157#c79841157" target="_blank">jeremie</a>:</b> <i>jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it


Maybe, or maybe he found out that <b>putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work</b>, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.</i>

You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.


Maybe he is working on a complex problem that can only be solved by mowing lawns.
 
2012-10-06 03:32:24 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Well, then. I look forward to reading her groundbreaking work in the coming years. Or not.


Exactly, give me a call when she does something that surpasses Einsteins or Hawkings contributions, Einstein in particular with general and special relativity stands as the greatest mind since Newton.
Probably the highlight of her career will be: she develops a technique for extracting more money from the general public for a major corporation.
 
2012-10-06 03:34:21 AM  

mr lawson: The best thing a parent can teach their kid is the scientific method.


It's really not.

Science is cool and all, but it's tediously boring and not at all the fastest or the best way to approach many things.

A far better piece of advice would be "Do what you love." Far better to be happy than anything else.
 
2012-10-06 03:39:51 AM  

Guntram Shatterhand: Everything was a competition she had to win first, and the sense of being recognized as perfect in anything she touched was of prime importance.


You can use that to your advantage in bed.
 
2012-10-06 03:40:36 AM  
One of the many problems with IQ tests is that memory alone can score really high(which is probably a large part of the case here) but not really be all that functionally intelligent(we'll know in a few years if that's the case here).

My computer's hard drive has an excellent memory, and like some autistic people, isn't very functional when you tell it to tie its shoes or walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.

LeafyGreens: You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.


As someone with a moderately high intelligence(I can walk and chew gum at the same time, heh, I'd say more but bragging about IQ on fark is pointless, especially after I slam the rating system), I'm a janitor(farking life choices, how do they work?) who works 8 hours a day at a school, and I'm probably more intelligent than the the lion's share of the teachers(granted it's k-8 where religion > science in some things(native american school), but still) and staff(especially the administration actually).

I may be the odd bird in that case, but really, most working folks would say the same, and most would also think they're smarter than the staff, never you mind that they never finished the 8th grade and that third digit in their IQ is non-existant.


Seriously though, you don't throw out your back from doing a job that requires intelligence, and you certainly don't break a leg during a complicated chess move if you're a functional and rational human being. (shouldn't be obscure on fark)

OK, so much for being serious.

Our education system is a bit of a joke, as is its standard measuring stick. Really, it's a sad reflection of society at large. Whatever some scheister can sway the populace to vote for is what we do, regardless of his intent or the actual repercussions. Schoolboards to our governing body.
 
2012-10-06 03:41:07 AM  
Steven Hawking's IQ has not been measured as 160; it's been estimated as being "over 160." When asked, he said he had no idea what it was, and that "people who boast about their IQ are losers."
 
2012-10-06 03:45:48 AM  
She sounds like an ideal candidate for the Krell mind booster
 
2012-10-06 03:48:07 AM  

Molavian: LeafyGreens: jeremie: jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it


Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.

You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.

Hey, why don't I just go eat some hay, make things out of clay, lay by the bay? I just may! What'd ya say?


Sounds gay!
 
2012-10-06 03:49:09 AM  
The majority of successful business people are just average intelligence. Making money doesn't take brains, just work. The majority of intelligent people don't get satisfaction from making a lot of money. That's why you usually see them as researchers or scientists relying on grant money and professorships.
 
2012-10-06 03:49:49 AM  

omeganuepsilon: One of the many problems with IQ tests is that memory alone can score really high(which is probably a large part of the case here) but not really be all that functionally intelligent(we'll know in a few years if that's the case here).

My computer's hard drive has an excellent memory, and like some autistic people, isn't very functional when you tell it to tie its shoes or walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.

LeafyGreens: You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.

As someone with a moderately high intelligence(I can walk and chew gum at the same time, heh, I'd say more but bragging about IQ on fark is pointless, especially after I slam the rating system), I'm a janitor(farking life choices, how do they work?) who works 8 hours a day at a school, and I'm probably more intelligent than the the lion's share of the teachers(granted it's k-8 where religion > science in some things(native american school), but still) and staff(especially the administration actually).

I may be the odd bird in that case, but really, most working folks would say the same, and most would also think they're smarter than the staff, never you mind that they never finished the 8th grade and that third digit in their IQ is non-existant.


Seriously though, you don't throw out your back from doing a job that requires intelligence, and you certainly don't break a leg during a complicated chess move if you're a functional and rational human being. (shouldn't be obscure on fark)

OK, so much for being serious.

Our education system is a bit of a joke, as is its standard measuring stick. Really, it's a sad reflection of society at large. Whatever some scheister can sway the populace to vote for is what we do, regardless of his intent or the actual repercussions. Schoolboards to our governing body.


Can't argue with the throwing your back out thing.
 
2012-10-06 03:50:34 AM  

doglover: mr lawson: The best thing a parent can teach their kid is the scientific method.

It's really not.

Science is cool and all, but it's tediously boring and not at all the fastest or the best way to approach many things.

A far better piece of advice would be "Do what you love." Far better to be happy than anything else.


Still, our populace is so devoid of logic that it's now almost incapable of doing what it takes to be happy for a large amount of people. It's depressing when viewed on scale.

Teaching hard logic and doing what you love are not two things exclusive to eachother. Society and the individual would be better off with a good education and a dash of hippy plattitudes. If you don't raise them to be intelligent beings, you stave off their ultimate happiness because they will always have unrealistic goals and dreams because they don't know better. That basketweaving diploma will do them no good in life, no matter how much they thought it guaranteed they'd never be sewer workers and would have a nice desk job managing some company.

A less sarcastic look:

Trade skill jobs are important, but not fashionable. Everyone gets educated to do more fashionable things, many of those people end up on unemployment or worse, because they didn't have realistic expectations of what reality really is. An over abundance of people for X duty, and no one doing Y duty. Bad for society as a whole and for large numbers of individuals.

Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather educate and teach my child that it's good to be educated and to find a job that they like.
 
2012-10-06 03:54:10 AM  

LeafyGreens: You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.



The difference between those jobs is a physical job leaves your mind free to think and relax while the desk job is tons of stress that leaves your mind in a vegetable state. I came across a few very smart people who enjoyed physical jobs because they could go home and not be zombies after work.
 
2012-10-06 03:57:44 AM  
Back in grade school, 4 out of about 40 of us scored over 140 and a few statisticians got upset and sent some experts in to retest us because they thought there had been some funny business. We all scored as well or better on the 2nd round. They never did tell us what we actually scored. Nuns didn't approve of people thinking they were special.
 
2012-10-06 03:57:47 AM  
Mrs. Fister was a flight attendant for twenty years and was tested at 140 when she was 20. She is pretty farking smart but not a butt about it. She is retired now from being smart. I myself am not that bright.
 
2012-10-06 03:58:10 AM  
If Hawking's so damn smart, how come he can't figure out how to walk and talk without mechanical assistance?
 
2012-10-06 04:01:13 AM  

LeafyGreens: jeremie: jeremie: You mean like in his secret lair?

more like he found out that the rat race to make a lot of money is not worth it


Maybe, or maybe he found out that putting your mind to work is a lot harder than putting your body to work, at least in the short term. Also you don't have to chase a dollar to put your mind to work. I bet you could think of a few occupations which benefit from high intelligence yet garner low pay.

You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.


Why would you assume that? I spent years working as an Able Bodied Seaman (AB). Twelve hours a day, seven days a week for 120 days straight, followed by 120 off. Straight, mindless labor. Mostly "chipping and painting", removing rust with a chipping hammer and a needle gun.I went back to school, got my license, and now sail as a deck officer. Mostly it's boring and easy, but sometimes it gets crazy, and the consequences of a bad decision are pretty serious, sometimes life or death. Now mowing the three acres I hope to build a house on someday, and planting and trimming the trees on it is pretty blissful. Whether you use you body or your mind to make a living makes no difference to me, as long as you're productive. I just feel there is an abundance of able bodies, and a shortage of able minds. If you have an able mind, you should put it to work.
 
2012-10-06 04:01:24 AM  
to those that think it's a blessing... you are obviously not "blessed" in this fashion.

to those that think, being well adjusted to a fundamentally sick society is healthy, you might need some more "blessing"....

ever wondered why so many "brainy" people seem to lack the ability to "make it" in the real world...
 
2012-10-06 04:02:38 AM  

intelligent comment below: LeafyGreens: You've never done physical labor for 8 hours a day, have you? I would much rather sit in my office that think through things than have to say, bail hay all day.


The difference between those jobs is a physical job leaves your mind free to think and relax while the desk job is tons of stress that leaves your mind in a vegetable state. I came across a few very smart people who enjoyed physical jobs because they could go home and not be zombies after work.


That's because people shoot for the stars and get in over their heads, another effect of what I mentioned above. SO MANY applicants, the actually capable ones are hard to locate or simply not applying to that job.
 
2012-10-06 04:13:02 AM  

3rotor: to those that think it's a blessing... you are obviously not "blessed" in this fashion.

to those that think, being well adjusted to a fundamentally sick society is healthy, you might need some more "blessing"....

ever wondered why so many "brainy" people seem to lack the ability to "make it" in the real world...


Instead of just "ability" I'd expand it to "ability, motivation, or desire"

(but you do kind of cover that with "make it")

Another factor that comes into play.
Location (from ideal weather to proximity(distant or close) to family and friends).
And a plethora of little things, hence my "life choices" statement above, little choices along the way have long lasting repercussions.
For example. I don't make a ton of money per paycheck, but I have always been debt free and don't own an extravagant car or house. I've a brother who lives in Denver(I live in the middle of bumfark nowhere) and makes great money, but at the end of the month, I've got boatloads more money to play with, or save, or whatever.

Even if not for debt, cost of living in an area can make or break a guy.
 
2012-10-06 04:22:03 AM  

omeganuepsilon: That's because people shoot for the stars and get in over their heads, another effect of what I mentioned above. SO MANY applicants, the actually capable ones are hard to locate or simply not applying to that job.



You are misunderstanding me. A desk job doesn't need to be "over your head" to be stressful. Most desk jobs these days are you doing the work of 2-4 people. The higher up you go the more your decisions affect others. You also have to manage people below you, and managing people who aren't that bright is stressful by itself. Most people are drama queens who resort to high school attitudes of cliques and gossip and all that nonsense.
 
2012-10-06 04:26:56 AM  
well... motivation and dezire is both ingredients of ability, for if you lack any of those, you will seem unable to succeed. not so?


so no, ability covers them all...
 
2012-10-06 04:30:03 AM  
I bet she has sharp knees.
 
2012-10-06 04:30:20 AM  
I really don't see how she could possibly have qualified for Mensa. Sure, she's smart, but there's no way that 12-year-old girl can grow a neckbeard, and she's not even old enough to buy her own pipe tobacco. Are there other qualifications? I'm just going by what I've observed from people who have told me they're in Mensa.
 
2012-10-06 04:32:05 AM  
Why is she not in the kitchen?

/IQ of 162?
//Bet she could make a helluva of a sammich!
 
2012-10-06 04:33:55 AM  

jeremie: Our local MENSA guy mows lawns for a living. Having a great a great mind means nothing if you're not smart enough to harness it.


Maybe he likes mowing lawns.
Otherwise, you get the Teddy Ks and
the dude who shot up the movie
theatre in Aurora.

You have to love what you do,
no matter what it is you do.
Loving mowing lawns is a valid
choice, as long as he loves it.
 
2012-10-06 04:45:21 AM  

omeganuepsilon: Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather educate and teach my child that it's good to be educated and to find a job that they like.


I'd rather teach my child to get out there and turn a profit doing what they love as opposed to trying to love what turns a profit.

Kind of like how Bald Bryan and Alison, clearly more intelligent in a bookish way, work for Adam Carola, a man who admits to picking up peanuts off an airport tarmac after a pigeon spit them out and eating them. But he's damn good at what he does and that's why he makes the big bucks. While they also do what they do well, but they don't entertain like Adam. He's a millionaire, they live in apartments. Entertainment pays more than sound effects and news stories. They've since started their own shows, but it's still not even close yet. Why? Adam like his talent more and he's liked it for a lot longer. He's the fastest wit in the west, despite not being the smartest.
 
2012-10-06 04:52:02 AM  
Fortunately, having a great mind, sometime also means, having the ability to foresee the outcome of using said mind in a particular way.... BUT, not always!!!
 
2012-10-06 05:09:19 AM  
Liverpool, baby. Where the Beatles are from. I'm all in favor of her being a genius.
 
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