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(CBS Los Angeles 2)   Californians having trouble with reality thinking their gas prices are going to go back down   (losangeles.cbslocal.com) divider line 93
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4403 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Oct 2012 at 3:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-05 09:17:31 PM
Why would it be a surprise if a few people from Texas that play a fair-sized part in the oil industry decide just to screw with California just because?
 
2012-10-05 09:48:21 PM
Not until the economy collapses again

/and judging by how fast the prices went up, I'm guessing that will be around the end of the month
//what a coincidence
 
2012-10-05 09:50:12 PM
They went up 20 cents overnight. I'm sure this isn't just a gas industry money grab.
 
2012-10-05 10:04:47 PM
Two refinery fires would tend to keep prices higher than normal.
 
2012-10-06 03:21:03 AM
FTFA: One station in Calabasas is charging the highest rate in LA County - nearly $6 for a gallon.

Reporting for CBS2 and KCAL9, Amanda Burden went to the station and called it a virtual ghost town.

She said cars peeled in but peeled right out when they saw the sign for $5.79 a gallon for regular. Said one customer, "I can't believe this! $5.79 a gallon? Oh my God!"

Said another, "Crap! I've never seen it so high. This is unbelievable."

It gets worse. Super costs $5.99.


That's just f*cking ridiculous. I just paid $3.79 a gallon for mid-grade (89) here in Phoenix the other day. Sounds like the stations in that area are just milking customers for as much as they can get. Isn't Calabasas over on the western end of L.A.? Could it be that the station owners are just taking advantage of the higher income folks who live in that area? And how much of this price is going to the state in taxes?
 
2012-10-06 03:57:35 AM
switching from summer to winter blend?
again??
do they do that EVERY year ??

IF ONLY there were some method of "storing" gas for a few days or weeks while the switch took place.
Some method to "tank" gas.

Alas, there is no reason for the refineries or the stations to do this. NONE.
Why do something which would cost you profits and save your customers money??
 
2012-10-06 03:59:50 AM

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: One station in Calabasas is charging the highest rate in LA County - nearly $6 for a gallon.

Reporting for CBS2 and KCAL9, Amanda Burden went to the station and called it a virtual ghost town.

She said cars peeled in but peeled right out when they saw the sign for $5.79 a gallon for regular. Said one customer, "I can't believe this! $5.79 a gallon? Oh my God!"

Said another, "Crap! I've never seen it so high. This is unbelievable."

It gets worse. Super costs $5.99.

That's just f*cking ridiculous. I just paid $3.79 a gallon for mid-grade (89) here in Phoenix the other day. Sounds like the stations in that area are just milking customers for as much as they can get. Isn't Calabasas over on the western end of L.A.? Could it be that the station owners are just taking advantage of the higher income folks who live in that area? And how much of this price is going to the state in taxes?


Two refinery fires, pipeline problems, and the requirement for specific warm weather blends to fight smog means they're screwed. The $6 is gouging but the average for regular is over $4.40 in the area.
 
2012-10-06 04:07:29 AM
idiot consumer : OMG gas prices going up!

scientists, economists, and other smart people : we should look in to energy alternatives, thus reducing demand of oil, which would ultimately reduce the cost of gas

idiot consumer : eff that communist bullshiat!! gimme cheap gas naow!!
 
2012-10-06 04:13:09 AM

Quasar: They went up 20 cents overnight. I'm sure this isn't just a gas industry money grab.


It has to be some kind of price manipulation. Even if there was a refinery fire, even with pipeline issues, unless the fire burned down the tank farms at Carson and Benicia (which I know for a fact they didn't) there is NO WAY there is suddenly no gas. It's not like all the gasoline is gone or the ability to make more has vanished. This is gougers taking advantage of a possible shortage that might somehow occur sometime in the future someday.
 
2012-10-06 04:13:54 AM
They got to pay the price if they want to live in paradise. Just as long as they stay there and don't move here where gas is $3.52 a gallon.
 
2012-10-06 04:15:23 AM
fark ethanol. Ruins 2 cycle engines.

Also loves to collect water, then watery ethanol mix separates out of the gasoline and sits at the bottom of your fuel tank, ready to either rust out your old tank, or ruin the engine of your new car.

/Never let ethanol blended fuel sit more then a couple months.
 
2012-10-06 04:16:38 AM

Gyrfalcon: This is gougers taking advantage of a possible shortage that might somehow occur sometime in the future someday.


Congratulations! You've figured out how the commodities market works!

/The house always wins
 
2012-10-06 04:24:14 AM
FTFA: One station in Calabasas is charging the highest rate in LA County - nearly $6 for a gallon.

Reporting for CBS2 and KCAL9, Amanda Burden went to the station and called it a virtual ghost town.

She said cars peeled in but peeled right out when they saw the sign for $5.79 a gallon for regular. Said one customer, "I can't believe this! $5.79 a gallon? Oh my God!"

Said another, "Crap! I've never seen it so high. This is unbelievable."

It gets worse. Super costs $5.99.

A $0.20 jump from regular to premium would be fantastic. Around these parts it's a minimum $0.30 jump, with a few places gouging with a $0.40 jump between 87 and 93 octane.
 
2012-10-06 04:27:03 AM

Gyrfalcon: Quasar: They went up 20 cents overnight. I'm sure this isn't just a gas industry money grab.

It has to be some kind of price manipulation. Even if there was a refinery fire, even with pipeline issues, unless the fire burned down the tank farms at Carson and Benicia (which I know for a fact they didn't) there is NO WAY there is suddenly no gas. It's not like all the gasoline is gone or the ability to make more has vanished. This is gougers taking advantage of a possible shortage that might somehow occur sometime in the future someday.


Most likely. I'm in NorCal, and 3 weeks ago prices were 4.17. I went out of town on a work trip for a week, and when I returned, they were 4.53. As of today, the same station is up to 4.75. I don't get it.

Fortunately, I live 5 minutes away from work, so I go through a tank of gas in about a month. I know there are people who drive an hour or more just to get to work, probably more during rush hour, but honestly, the extra time I don't spend seated in traffic as well as the gas costs are well worth the +200/month to live there. I like leaving at 5 and being able to pull a beer out of my own fridge at 5:15 assuming crappy traffic.

It's not the gas that confuses me, it's the time everyone is willing to spend getting to/from work that's completely wasted. Also, they have to pay for the gas.
 
2012-10-06 04:27:26 AM
Paying the equivalent of 4.92 a gallon for premium in Saskatoon. Doesn't bother me too much - I knew with all the CAFE standards coming in the V8 was in it's death knell, so I got while the gettin' was good. Probably not helped along by my lead foot.

/Shell V-Power please
//No ethanol
 
2012-10-06 04:28:23 AM
ugh..html, you win again!

/I blame John Stockton
 
2012-10-06 04:29:04 AM

Fark Me To Tears: That's just f*cking ridiculous. I just paid $3.79 a gallon for mid-grade (89) here in Phoenix the other day.


California has all sorts of specialized regional blend requirements that make it illegal to bring in gasoline from (for example) Phoenix to relieve shortages (except incidentally, in your own car's fuel tank). Operating a refinery is itself very complicated (and dangerous), and requires significant planning and careful, deliberate effort to change production volume, blends, et cetera; there's no safe or economical way to meet sudden shortages in production (like one caused by a refinery going offline because of a fire). This is especially true when they're in the middle of switching blends; they can't just reverse and make more of the summer stuff.

So, any supply shocks in California can't be cushioned (in anything like the short term) by diverting supply from elsewhere, or by making more. So price goes up until demand matches supply.
 
2012-10-06 04:37:32 AM
The refinery fire occurred a few weeks ago causing an immediate 20 cent jump in prices that hasn't really been recovered from. That calamity has been factored into the prices and really shouldn't be used in the present excuses for the increases.

The new issues as I understand them are as follows. One of three crude oil pipelines from the central valley to San Francisco refineries is down due to excess chlorine in the line (don't know what thats about). There was also a power outage in Torrence that affected two refineries (one big, one little) but power has been restored so it will just take a little time to get them back into production and there is no reported affect on their ability to fulfill contracts. Add to it a couple refineries have units offline for maintenance an there is somewhat of a supply disruption.

However it certainly seems like this spike is going beyond mere supply issues and the oil companies and trades are taking some additional profits while they have an excuse.  A price rise of 40 to 50 cents over a 36 hour period just doesn't seem quite right for the above disruptions. We didn't lose the tank farms and almost all the production units will be operational in the immediate future.
 
2012-10-06 04:48:48 AM
I am going to go out on a limb here. Oil companies would much prefer to see a republican in office. Oil companies can and do fix prices in areas regardless of commodity markets. "Lets steadily raise prices for the months leading up to the election and really jump them up the last month. Will the independents still think that things are getting better when they pay 5 bucks a gallon? Want to bet all the refinery problems go away let's say around Nov 4th or 5th?
 
2012-10-06 04:53:06 AM
$3.38 last Tuesday for me.
 
2012-10-06 05:02:39 AM
Gas prices need to go up and stay up. And I'm talking $7-8/gallon, at least. And it needs to be an overnight shift, a gradual increase isn't as hard of a sting. It's the only way we're going to have an attention span long enough to truly focus on an alternate means of propulsion. Yes it will suck, but only in the short term.
 
2012-10-06 05:11:51 AM

TheSwizz: Gas prices need to go up and stay up. And I'm talking $7-8/gallon, at least. And it needs to be an overnight shift, a gradual increase isn't as hard of a sting. It's the only way we're going to have an attention span long enough to truly focus on an alternate means of propulsion. Yes it will suck, but only in the short term.


We could fix internet congestion by making people pay a dollar a megabyte too.

I mean, it'd be hard for a while, but only in the short term.
 
2012-10-06 05:25:06 AM

fluffy2097:
We could fix internet congestion by making people pay a dollar a megabyte too.

I mean, it'd be hard for a while, but only in the short term.


I wasn't aware that bandwidth was a finite resource and once it was used it could never be replenished, which would cripple our world because we didn't have a backup plan in place.
 
2012-10-06 05:37:02 AM

TheSwizz: Gas prices need to go up and stay up. And I'm talking $7-8/gallon, at least. And it needs to be an overnight shift, a gradual increase isn't as hard of a sting. It's the only way we're going to have an attention span long enough to truly focus on an alternate means of propulsion. Yes it will suck, but only in the short term.


And only for poor people and the middle class until they all buy new cars. Which is like, what, a coupla weeks?
 
2012-10-06 05:48:06 AM

Hoopy Frood:

And only for poor people and the middle class until they all buy new cars. Which is like, what, a coupla weeks?


We will adapt. Nobody said change was easy.
 
2012-10-06 05:53:06 AM
AAA tells Burden that the higher prices are a result of refinery power outages, a fire in Northern California, and low fuel inventory as stations switch from summer to winter blends.

What is with the power outages?

Say what you want but I will take the federally owned TVA over those private utilities any day.
 
2012-10-06 06:11:36 AM

namatad: switching from summer to winter blend?
again??
do they do that EVERY year ??

IF ONLY there were some method of "storing" gas for a few days or weeks while the switch took place.
Some method to "tank" gas.

Alas, there is no reason for the refineries or the stations to do this. NONE.
Why do something which would cost you profits and save your customers money??


It's just their excuse... 10-12 years ago, it was just one yearly 'bump', the "summer driving season", mid July to early September, when everyone supposedly took their vacations. Then there was the summer/winter blends thing, then the "winter driving season". Now they have an excuse every 3 months or so to jack the price up again. 10 cents in a day, and then drop it like a feather in time for the next jump(Down 3 cents in a week and a half).

Yes, they could easily plan for this, but they never will. The truth is that with the price hies while Bush was in office(Easy to blame those on the war), the oil companies tested us and figured out just where we finally get pissed off and quit driving, and they just tease that total all year long now. Throughout the 90's, gas stayed relatively stable at $1.35-ish a gallon, sometimes dropping below a dollar, and occasionally going up to $1.50-$1.60, but really always tending to bounce back into that range. We freaked out over a 5 cent increase in a week. I'm not sure I ever saw it go above $2, except at price gouging places, such as the 'Last gas for 200 miles' types of stations, or the ones in the ritzier parts of town. We'll never see that again. That $1.75/gal price that the Right pushes when biatching about Obama lasted about a week, and is the only time ince I started driving in '87 that I have seen it drop anywhere near as fast as it climbs, and that one was a result of the crash of the dollar. After that week of fun, it flew right back up.

And then these bastards reap record profits every quarter, not record revenue, but profits. Fark them, if they ever figure out an electric that will go more than 200 miles on a charge, and someone manages to sneak it past these asshats and sell it for an affordable price, I'll never buy gas again.
 
2012-10-06 06:33:09 AM
Hi! Since you spoiled whiners don't want it, where can I get that cheap $6/gallon gas?

/uk resident

but more seriously...

there are 12 cars at "whatmpg co uk" which get over 60 mpg, combined. some are diesels. some are not. very very few, if any, of them, are available for sale in the USA.

at $10 per gallon, a reasonable 10,000 miles of yearly driving at 25 mpg costs a less than whopping $4000 - or $333 per month. At $5 per gallon that's all of $167 per month. The reality is that petrol is cheap cheap cheap even if it is still "more expensive than it used to be" which is really, when you get down to it, what the whining is all about.
 
2012-10-06 06:37:11 AM
A barrel of oil is $89.03.
So how come gas is nearly 6 bucks a gallon in CA?

Let's speculate on the answer...
 
2012-10-06 06:43:16 AM
I just paid 33 bucks for 3.5 gallons. Painful. But, I really don´t drive all that much.

Plus, all the gas here is 95 octane. What is that all about?
 
2012-10-06 06:58:05 AM

TheSwizz: fluffy2097:
We could fix internet congestion by making people pay a dollar a megabyte too.

I mean, it'd be hard for a while, but only in the short term.

I wasn't aware that bandwidth was a finite resource and once it was used it could never be replenished, which would cripple our world because we didn't have a backup plan in place.


We could also end world hunger by not sending food to people who are hungry.

/it will only be a rough few months as billions starve
//but then there will be enough land for your overpriced organic crap.
///Who knew all the worlds problems could be solved by just denying shiat to people
 
2012-10-06 07:02:23 AM

CAPTIAN SLAPPY: I am going to go out on a limb here. Oil companies would much prefer to see a republican in office. Oil companies can and do fix prices in areas regardless of commodity markets. "Lets steadily raise prices for the months leading up to the election and really jump them up the last month. Will the independents still think that things are getting better when they pay 5 bucks a gallon? Want to bet all the refinery problems go away let's say around Nov 4th or 5th?


I was about to say this... except the amazing price jumps are here in California. And California's Electoral College votes have zero chance of swinging toward Romney. It might help the Republican candidates for the House or state legislative seats in some areas... but California is not Romney country.
 
2012-10-06 07:03:42 AM

Free Radical: A barrel of oil is $89.03.
So how come gas is nearly 6 bucks a gallon in CA?

Let's speculate on the answer...


well. that would be 2.11 if you were buying crude.

But you have to refine the crude first. Which takes you from 42 gallons crude in, to 19 gallons of gasoline out, comes to $4.68 a gallon. Factor in refining and transportation costs and it makes sense.

If you forget that they still use and sell the other 23 gallons as other products, it almost seems reasonable.
 
2012-10-06 07:48:02 AM

Verzio: Fark Me To Tears: That's just f*cking ridiculous. I just paid $3.79 a gallon for mid-grade (89) here in Phoenix the other day.

California has all sorts of specialized regional blend requirements that make it illegal to bring in gasoline from (for example) Phoenix to relieve shortages (except incidentally, in your own car's fuel tank). Operating a refinery is itself very complicated (and dangerous), and requires significant planning and careful, deliberate effort to change production volume, blends, et cetera; there's no safe or economical way to meet sudden shortages in production (like one caused by a refinery going offline because of a fire). This is especially true when they're in the middle of switching blends; they can't just reverse and make more of the summer stuff.

So, any supply shocks in California can't be cushioned (in anything like the short term) by diverting supply from elsewhere, or by making more. So price goes up until demand matches supply.


Thank you - people flat out don't realize that it's illegal to use/pump gas in Cali that wasn't refined in Cali.

When I lived there in '99, it took a special act of the State Assembly to bring something like 50,000 gallons from
Nevada.

California gas, like everything about California, is, well, different.
 
2012-10-06 07:53:36 AM

johncb76006: They got to pay the price if they want to live in paradise. Just as long as they stay there and don't move here where gas is $3.52 a gallon.


Moved out of SoCal 15 years ago. It had stopped being a paradise a decade before I was able to leave.
 
2012-10-06 08:04:07 AM

muck1969: idiot consumer : OMG gas prices going up!

scientists, economists, and other smart people : we should look in to energy alternatives, thus reducing demand of oil, which would ultimately reduce the cost of gas

idiot consumer : eff that communist bullshiat!! gimme cheap gas naow!!


This^, but it seems like a broken record, unfortunately. Been hearing such since I was a kid, and that was a long time ago. I wish it wasn't so, but this is the truth, sadly.
 
2012-10-06 08:12:38 AM
Its funny, but I know from watching some documentarys and such that you can replace your fuel tank with some kinda hydrogen electrolysis rig that basically means you can just run your car off of some sort of water indefinitely, but when I do a search for that on the internet, all I ever come up with how to make your car into a hydrogen hybrid. Wonder what's up with that. Now I think I'm gonna go search again, but it feels like a fools errand. Sorry about my lack of technical terms, but somebody knows what I'm talking about (hopefully) This whole gas thing is a sham, and when we run out of gas and run into Mad Max world, people, for the most part, will most likely be surprised by this somehow. . .
 
2012-10-06 08:20:47 AM
I want to ride my bicycle
I want to ride my bike
I want to ride my bicycle
I want to ride it where I like
 
2012-10-06 08:28:10 AM
We're Americans. We have a constitutional right to cheap petroleum products.
 
2012-10-06 08:37:06 AM
3.43 per gallon here in the ozarks.
The leaves are starting to change and the elk are bugling. Californians, you live in a communist state, what do you expect? Tank farms store gas, are they empty too? If not, there is no gas shortage. Get a news crew over there and demand the status of the tank farms.
 
2012-10-06 08:50:45 AM
On Tuesday I paid $4.39 a gallon then yesterday I topped off at the same station and it was $4.89. Some stations won't resupply. The Volero by my house said when they run out they won't get anymore until prices drop. I doubt they will but it is interesting to hear the desperation in the gas station owners.
 
2012-10-06 08:59:41 AM

fluffy2097:

We could also end world hunger by not sending food to people who are hungry.

/it will only be a rough few months as billions starve
//but then there will be enough land for your overpriced organic crap.
///Who knew all the worlds problems could be solved by just denying shiat to people


Now I'm learning that oil is an absolute necessity to survival. An educational day today. Do these apples taste like oranges?
 
2012-10-06 09:01:40 AM
Please don't show this to station owners in CT. I think they enjoy raising prices to be number 1 in something.
 
2012-10-06 09:22:25 AM
100 pts to submitter for getting California and reality in the same sentence.
 
2012-10-06 09:34:18 AM
i86.photobucket.com

Sucks to be California.
 
2012-10-06 09:36:40 AM

Nappy Imus: This^, but it seems like a broken record, unfortunately. Been hearing such since I was a kid, and that was a long time ago. I wish it wasn't so, but this is the truth, sadly.


I'm a child of the 70's. When did the environmental movement really get cooking? The 70's. I've been a tree-hugger since I was a kid. I have never seen any change in people's habits or attitudes that wasn't matched by two steps backwards toward even MORE consumption. So you recycle your plastic now.....OK good. And 3/4 of your recycling is the little plastic bottles of water that you simply must have. But you recycle!

/early morning rant. Leave me alone, or I might really get going.
 
2012-10-06 09:52:31 AM
I'm just wondering what the excuse is in the Midwest right now. I'm currently visiting relatives in Michigan, and saw the price jump from about $3.75 to $3.95.

"Because fark you, that's why" is probably the excuse. Just because Enron got smashed to bits doesn't mean that the Enron mentality ever went away.

It's especially interesting to plot gas prices against crude prices. Link
 
2012-10-06 09:52:37 AM
According to the White House, gas prices have already gone down.
 
2012-10-06 09:54:59 AM

TheSwizz: Gas prices need to go up and stay up. And I'm talking $7-8/gallon, at least. And it needs to be an overnight shift, a gradual increase isn't as hard of a sting. It's the only way we're going to have an attention span long enough to truly focus on an alternate means of propulsion. Yes it will suck, but only in the short term.


In other words, fark THE POOR.
 
2012-10-06 10:03:36 AM

TheSwizz: Gas prices need to go up and stay up. And I'm talking $7-8/gallon, at least. And it needs to be an overnight shift, a gradual increase isn't as hard of a sting. It's the only way we're going to have an attention span long enough to truly focus on an alternate means of propulsion. Yes it will suck, but only in the short term.


s3-ak.buzzfed.com
 
2012-10-06 10:10:34 AM
Meanwhile, oil companies continue to post record profits. What a strange coincidence.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-06 10:16:35 AM
The price elasticity of demand for gasoline is thought to be well under 1, especially in the short term. That means it takes a big price increase to cause a small drop in consumption. Alternatively, a small drop in production causes a large increase in price. And all the "tax cars off the roads" crowd get to watch the oil industry collect the revenue they wanted.

I fail to comprehend California's gas tax because it consists of multiple taxes. How much does state revenue increase when pump prices double?
 
2012-10-06 10:19:55 AM

Gyrfalcon: Quasar: They went up 20 cents overnight. I'm sure this isn't just a gas industry money grab.

It has to be some kind of price manipulation. Even if there was a refinery fire, even with pipeline issues, unless the fire burned down the tank farms at Carson and Benicia (which I know for a fact they didn't) there is NO WAY there is suddenly no gas. It's not like all the gasoline is gone or the ability to make more has vanished. This is gougers taking advantage of a possible shortage that might somehow occur sometime in the future someday.


Actually it's pretty easy to arrange a shortage of gas in California. Just pass a law granting an appointed beauracrat the power to craft a "regulation", with the force of law, that you can't sell the gasoline that you have on hand which was blended for the summer season.
 
2012-10-06 10:33:42 AM
Just hang in there till Rmoney gets in. He'll invade Iran and that'll larn them goldarn Ayrabs.

Mittens for President! Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran!
 
2012-10-06 10:34:01 AM

Teknowaffle: I just paid 33 bucks for 3.5 gallons. Painful. But, I really don´t drive all that much.

Plus, all the gas here is 95 octane. What is that all about?


Different measurements. Looks like they use RON there, and US uses (R+M)/2.

Octane Rating
 
2012-10-06 10:35:59 AM
Won't need gas today but will soon. Any ideas when prices will fall? Like, maybe by Tuesday?
 
2012-10-06 10:46:20 AM
What we need is a full electric car, with a body made out of photovoltaic cells, and with a small wind turbine in the trunk that you can erect on the outside of the car while parked.

Hybrids blow. You have the weight of the electric motor/generator, the batteries, PLUS all of the weight of an internal combustion engine, gas tank, catalytic converter, etc. The electric range will be much higher if you just ditch the petroleum boat anchor. Pick a drive system and optimize it.
 
2012-10-06 11:04:03 AM

eurotrader: Why would it be a surprise if a few people from Texas that play a fair-sized part in the oil industry decide just to screw with California just because?


Typical liberals; just like Obama is not to blame for his poor debate performance California is not to blame for their energy problems be it a shortage of electric generating capacity or oil refining capacity it is always somebody other than California's fault.

California is third in the nation in proven oil reserves but it just won't develope them. They prefer to be broke and blame others.

from 1985 to 1995, 10 California refineries closed, resulting in a 20 percent reduction in refining capacity

California is a net importer of oil. It produces only about 37.2 percent of the petroleum it uses. In 2007, the state spent nearly $50 billion for gasoline and $9.7 billion for diesel.

.
 
2012-10-06 11:13:14 AM

cryinoutloud: Nappy Imus: This^, but it seems like a broken record, unfortunately. Been hearing such since I was a kid, and that was a long time ago. I wish it wasn't so, but this is the truth, sadly.

I'm a child of the 70's. When did the environmental movement really get cooking? The 70's. I've been a tree-hugger since I was a kid. I have never seen any change in people's habits or attitudes that wasn't matched by two steps backwards toward even MORE consumption. So you recycle your plastic now.....OK good. And 3/4 of your recycling is the little plastic bottles of water that you simply must have. But you recycle!

/early morning rant. Leave me alone, or I might really get going.


For crying out loud, I'm a child of the 70's and in the 70's we recycled just newspapers, cans and bottles. I recycle a lot more now. Of the 30 trees I've planted on my property (some from the Arbor day foundation) 7 are fruit trees, which help me crap.
/rant off
 
2012-10-06 11:28:53 AM
If a drop in the unemployment numbers just before the election means that it's an anti-Romney conspiracy, does that make a monster price increase in gasoline just before the election an anti-Obama conspiracy? Nah, everyone knows that Obama is an black, commie, mooslime.
 
2012-10-06 11:55:50 AM
The United States of America exports(sells at a PROFIT) more finished petrolium products that it consumes.

There simply is no such thing as "dependance on foreign oil".
That fact puts the lie to most of the crappy derp both sides spew.

California is now hoist on their own petard. Can't help but think that BIG OIL is sending a message.
 
2012-10-06 11:58:55 AM

Khazar-Khum: TheSwizz: Gas prices need to go up and stay up. And I'm talking $7-8/gallon, at least. And it needs to be an overnight shift, a gradual increase isn't as hard of a sting. It's the only way we're going to have an attention span long enough to truly focus on an alternate means of propulsion. Yes it will suck, but only in the short term.

[s3-ak.buzzfed.com image 300x441]


You first.

But you must live on a farm out in the country 30 miles from town.

Send smoke signals when you want to give up.
 
2012-10-06 12:01:57 PM

Arthurgoboom: What we need is a full electric car, with a body made out of photovoltaic cells, and with a small wind turbine in the trunk that you can erect on the outside of the car while parked.

Hybrids blow. You have the weight of the electric motor/generator, the batteries, PLUS all of the weight of an internal combustion engine, gas tank, catalytic converter, etc. The electric range will be much higher if you just ditch the petroleum boat anchor. Pick a drive system and optimize it.


Simply put, the secret to better mileage is lighter vehicles.
Heavy batteries that ultimately burn coal are not a real answer.
Neither is converting food to fuel.
While they do offer short term profitability, they are not long term solutions.

If we could just elect real politicians instead of industry shills, and make some, any rational long term Energy Plan.
Something other than top down rape of the citizenry.
 
2012-10-06 12:06:38 PM

Hoopy Frood: TheSwizz: Gas prices need to go up and stay up. And I'm talking $7-8/gallon, at least. And it needs to be an overnight shift, a gradual increase isn't as hard of a sting. It's the only way we're going to have an attention span long enough to truly focus on an alternate means of propulsion. Yes it will suck, but only in the short term.

And only for poor people and the middle class until they all buy new cars. Which is like, what, a coupla weeks?


Nope LPG conversion kit and it would be done in a couple of days with help from my visa card.
 
2012-10-06 12:09:22 PM
California votes Democratic == Highest Gas Prices
 
2012-10-06 12:10:50 PM

Bomb Head Mohammed: Hi! Since you spoiled whiners don't want it, where can I get that cheap $6/gallon gas?

/uk resident

but more seriously...

there are 12 cars at "whatmpg co uk" which get over 60 mpg, combined. some are diesels. some are not. very very few, if any, of them, are available for sale in the USA.

at $10 per gallon, a reasonable 10,000 miles of yearly driving at 25 mpg costs a less than whopping $4000 - or $333 per month. At $5 per gallon that's all of $167 per month. The reality is that petrol is cheap cheap cheap even if it is still "more expensive than it used to be" which is really, when you get down to it, what the whining is all about.


Come talk to me when you have a state bigger than many countries. I drive 700 miles weekly for work, in my car.
 
2012-10-06 12:23:15 PM

snocone: The United States of America exports(sells at a PROFIT) more finished petrolium products that it consumes.

There simply is no such thing as "dependance on foreign oil".


The US imports ~10 million barrels of oil a day, a little under half of the total oil it uses. Just because some of the refined product can be sold and exported at a profit doesn't mean the US isn't dependent on foreign oil.
 
2012-10-06 01:10:24 PM
why does everyone hate us kellifornians?
 
2012-10-06 01:15:38 PM

beer4breakfast: snocone: The United States of America exports(sells at a PROFIT) more finished petrolium products that it consumes.

There simply is no such thing as "dependance on foreign oil".

The US imports ~10 million barrels of oil a day, a little under half of the total oil it uses. Just because some of the refined product can be sold and exported at a profit doesn't mean the US isn't dependent on foreign oil.


Bullchit!/big>b>

Link

Are you lying for a reason, or just misinformed?
 
2012-10-06 01:18:21 PM
I've got about a third of a tank left and I'm leaving on a vacation Tuesday night. I'm waiting to fill up till I get back and crossing my fingers it's lower.

/It will probably be higher and I'll look like an idiot
 
2012-10-06 01:22:03 PM

snocone: beer4breakfast: snocone: The United States of America exports(sells at a PROFIT) more finished petrolium products that it consumes.

There simply is no such thing as "dependance on foreign oil".

The US imports ~10 million barrels of oil a day, a little under half of the total oil it uses. Just because some of the refined product can be sold and exported at a profit doesn't mean the US isn't dependent on foreign oil.

Bullchit!/big>b>

Link

Are you lying for a reason, or just misinformed?


I'm afraid you're the one who's misinformed. You posted a link with a list of US liquid exports. Are you trying to say because there's a small amount of crude exported that means the US doesn't import any crude oil?

From the same EIA source: "The United States relied on net imports (imports minus exports) for about 45% of the petroleum (crude oil and petroleum products) that we consumed in 2011."
 
2012-10-06 01:27:10 PM

beer4breakfast: snocone: beer4breakfast: snocone: The United States of America exports(sells at a PROFIT) more finished petrolium products that it consumes.

There simply is no such thing as "dependance on foreign oil".

The US imports ~10 million barrels of oil a day, a little under half of the total oil it uses. Just because some of the refined product can be sold and exported at a profit doesn't mean the US isn't dependent on foreign oil.

Bullchit!/big>b>

Link

Are you lying for a reason, or just misinformed?

I'm afraid you're the one who's misinformed. You posted a link with a list of US liquid exports. Are you trying to say because there's a small amount of crude exported that means the US doesn't import any crude oil?

From the same EIA source: "The United States relied on net imports (imports minus exports) for about 45% of the petroleum (crude oil and petroleum products) that we consumed in 2011."


I mean, we import oil to refine it and resell finished products. More than half of these products are exported.
Get it? If we did not export, we would not need imports.
But, Big Oil sells for PROFIT. Their PROFIT takes precidence over a realistic energy strategy that favors US citizens.

There is no dependance on foreign oil. There is PROFIT from importing more than we use and selling it, with all the lies.
 
2012-10-06 01:31:06 PM
I just love the lie that we do not have the refining capacity and that causes price increases.
We have more than twice the refining capacity we need to supply THIS COUNTRY.

How much tax did big oil pay for the privledge of refining foreign oil and selling it foreignly(?).
 
2012-10-06 01:31:58 PM
Oh, that's right, it is fungible.
 
2012-10-06 01:43:32 PM

Arthurgoboom: What we need is a full electric car, with a body made out of photovoltaic cells, and with a small wind turbine in the trunk that you can erect on the outside of the car while parked.

Hybrids blow. You have the weight of the electric motor/generator, the batteries, PLUS all of the weight of an internal combustion engine, gas tank, catalytic converter, etc. The electric range will be much higher if you just ditch the petroleum boat anchor. Pick a drive system and optimize it.


Here's what people don't understand: the electricity for the electric car has to come from somewhere.

People seem to think electricity is magically generated in the plug. Sorry to burst your bubble, but NO. If oil isn't making gasoline, it's making electricity at oil-fed power plants. Or going into countless consumer products, but whatever.

So if you think an electric car will mean 'less dependent' on oil, NO. It just takes a different form, and a different company gets your money.
 
2012-10-06 01:48:36 PM

Khazar-Khum: Arthurgoboom: What we need is a full electric car, with a body made out of photovoltaic cells, and with a small wind turbine in the trunk that you can erect on the outside of the car while parked.

Hybrids blow. You have the weight of the electric motor/generator, the batteries, PLUS all of the weight of an internal combustion engine, gas tank, catalytic converter, etc. The electric range will be much higher if you just ditch the petroleum boat anchor. Pick a drive system and optimize it.

Here's what people don't understand: the electricity for the electric car has to come from somewhere.

People seem to think electricity is magically generated in the plug. Sorry to burst your bubble, but NO. If oil isn't making gasoline, it's making electricity at oil-fed power plants. Or going into countless consumer products, but whatever.

So if you think an electric car will mean 'less dependent' on oil, NO. It just takes a different form, and a different company gets your money.


60% of electricity in USA is from coal.

Wahr da "clean coal"?
In your dreams.

Everybody is all up in the Big Oil.
What, ya'll fergotted Big Coal?
 
2012-10-06 02:11:34 PM
One of the reasons (metaphorically) CA is susceptible to energy problems among others....
static.rcgroups.net
 
2012-10-06 02:16:15 PM

Khazar-Khum: Arthurgoboom: What we need is a full electric car, with a body made out of photovoltaic cells, and with a small wind turbine in the trunk that you can erect on the outside of the car while parked.

Hybrids blow. You have the weight of the electric motor/generator, the batteries, PLUS all of the weight of an internal combustion engine, gas tank, catalytic converter, etc. The electric range will be much higher if you just ditch the petroleum boat anchor. Pick a drive system and optimize it.

Here's what people don't understand: the electricity for the electric car has to come from somewhere.

People seem to think electricity is magically generated in the plug. Sorry to burst your bubble, but NO. If oil isn't making gasoline, it's making electricity at oil-fed power plants. Or going into countless consumer products, but whatever.

So if you think an electric car will mean 'less dependent' on oil, NO. It just takes a different form, and a different company gets your money.


=================

ICE engines have a real world maximum efficiency of about 35%.....two thirds of the energy potential in a gallon of gas goes off as heat waste when used to operate an ICE engine. Electric motors have a maximum efficiency of around 90%. Yes, that electricity needs to be generated, but there are ways of generating electricity that don't involve petroleum: Nuclear. Water. Wind. Solar. Coal. Trash incineration. Secondly, it's much easier to control emissions from a few dozen electric plants, than it is to control emissions from millions of tailpipes. Switching to EVs would reduce overall energy consumption, as well as pollution.

The problem with EVs is that they will never be a 1:1 replacement for an ICE vehicle when operated exclusively from batteries. The energy density of a battery will never come close to the energy density of a gallon of gasoline or diesel fuel. There is only one way for a pure EV to have the range and capability of an ICE powered vehicle.........by drawing power from a power grid embedded in the roadway. It wouldn't be possible to wire every single road in the US for power, but it could be done for arterial roadways. Let's say you had a 30 mile commute to work. You would start off from home on a secondary or tertiary road under battery power. After 10 miles or so......well within the range of batteries, even when using A/C and headlights........you would enter a powered roadway and your car would automatically switch from battery power to induction power. The electric energy....for which you would be billed....will power your car's drive wheels as well as recharge the batteries. After 15 miles or so, you would leave the powered roadway to complete the last few miles of your trip under battery power.

Of course the above scenario will never happen, not in the USA at least, because no private company will invest in wiring up arterial roadways for power. Only the government could undertake such a project, and that would be like communism, and Muricans all hate godless communism.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-06 02:29:10 PM
OregonVet

For California the main body of the sign should be a Proposition 65 warning.
 
2012-10-06 04:51:04 PM

TheSwizz: fluffy2097:

We could also end world hunger by not sending food to people who are hungry.

/it will only be a rough few months as billions starve
//but then there will be enough land for your overpriced organic crap.
///Who knew all the worlds problems could be solved by just denying shiat to people

Now I'm learning that oil is an absolute necessity to survival. An educational day today. Do these apples taste like oranges?


I'm glad your time on Fark is not ill spent. And you might want to rethink you apple/oranges thing since they are both seasonal fruits and about the same size, weight, shape and cost.
 
2012-10-06 04:55:54 PM
FISSILE
The energy density of a battery will never come close to the energy density of a gallon of gasoline or diesel fuel.

You should check out lithium polymer cells--not the energy density of gas/diesel but very impressive and improving all the time.
 
2012-10-06 05:14:00 PM
Reality can think? Whoah... far out, man.
 
2012-10-06 05:33:28 PM
Lives in California, weather not an issue - 60 MPG

i1044.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-06 07:28:26 PM
A good question is what happened to the hydrogen highway access in Cal. that was supposed to be built. Hydrogen fuel cells actually work pretty well. When Obama threw around 90 billion dollars to his friends it would have been nice if some of that could have gone to something that could actually work out well for American driving habits.
 
2012-10-06 08:38:24 PM
"What goes up, must come down."

Writer is apparently unfamiliar with the concept of inflation.
 
2012-10-07 01:13:37 AM

SumFrequency: Gyrfalcon: Quasar: They went up 20 cents overnight. I'm sure this isn't just a gas industry money grab.

It has to be some kind of price manipulation. Even if there was a refinery fire, even with pipeline issues, unless the fire burned down the tank farms at Carson and Benicia (which I know for a fact they didn't) there is NO WAY there is suddenly no gas. It's not like all the gasoline is gone or the ability to make more has vanished. This is gougers taking advantage of a possible shortage that might somehow occur sometime in the future someday.

Most likely. I'm in NorCal, and 3 weeks ago prices were 4.17. I went out of town on a work trip for a week, and when I returned, they were 4.53. As of today, the same station is up to 4.75. I don't get it.

Fortunately, I live 5 minutes away from work, so I go through a tank of gas in about a month. I know there are people who drive an hour or more just to get to work, probably more during rush hour, but honestly, the extra time I don't spend seated in traffic as well as the gas costs are well worth the +200/month to live there. I like leaving at 5 and being able to pull a beer out of my own fridge at 5:15 assuming crappy traffic.

It's not the gas that confuses me, it's the time everyone is willing to spend getting to/from work that's completely wasted. Also, they have to pay for the gas.



Sometimes, I sit in traffic jams in Houston and I realize that the people around me sit in them twice a day 5 days per week throughout the year. And, it puzzles me, too, that they will waste so much of each year in traffic jams and periodically vote against relatively speedy mass transit. They just seem not to have enough math ability to do a cost and benefit analysis of their time in relation to their lifespan. It makes me think that math education must be woefully inadequate in this country.
 
2012-10-07 06:46:55 AM

bintherdunthat: that they will waste so much of each year in traffic jams and periodically vote against relatively speedy mass transit.


5 days a year in traffic beats 5 minutes stuck in a train with a crazy smelly person who has possibly soiled themselves.

/public transit attracts some bad elements
 
2012-10-07 11:36:09 AM

Poundit Hardus: Lives in California, weather not an issue - 60 MPG

[i1044.photobucket.com image 619x309]


Buy lots of life insurance.
Can I get a policy on you?
 
2012-10-07 11:39:07 AM
Not if Obama's people have any say in the matter. He loves high gas prices to prop up his idiotic policies of pushing us prematurely towards technology that is not viable.
 
2012-10-07 12:09:05 PM

Ilikeit: Not if Obama's people have any say in the matter. He loves high gas prices to prop up his idiotic policies of pushing us prematurely towards technology that is not viable.


There is tech that is viable but for unknown reasons not promoted. I have seen a Honda clarity and they actually work and drive like a car should. Currently converting an old jeep to use a fuel cell now because they work and refilling is about the same as using LPG and without the wait to recharge like battery powered cars. The price right now is not even a crazy number anymore.A little infrastructure would make it possible to drive beyond the 300 mile range. I will use mine close to home simply because that is where I have to refill for now. Not soo much I want to be green but the fact I can make my own fuel and my solar runs the electrolysis. The green I care more about is dollars but only water emissions are good.
 
2012-10-07 12:09:18 PM

fluffy2097: bintherdunthat: that they will waste so much of each year in traffic jams and periodically vote against relatively speedy mass transit.

5 days a year in traffic beats 5 minutes stuck in a train with a crazy smelly person who has possibly soiled themselves.

/public transit attracts some bad elements


Indeed. Evidence of this is fascinating.
 
2012-10-07 03:25:11 PM
Californians having trouble with reality thinking their gas prices are going to go back down

Oh they will . . . after the election.
 
2012-10-08 09:32:58 AM

fluffy2097: 5 days a year in traffic beats 5 minutes stuck in a train with a crazy smelly person who has possibly soiled themselves.


When I worked in downtown Chicago, the suburban trains (Metra) were never like that. It was nice to be able to read a book or newspaper, or look at the gridlock on the Dan Ryan and wave at the people stuck in traffic. Not only was the trip much faster, it was cheaper than merely parking downtown, never mind the gas prices, insurance rates, and wear and tear on the car. That being said, I really like having my job about five minutes from home as I do now - it's like getting two extra hours a day.
 
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