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(Daily Mail)   Really, REALLY fast... That's how quickly the universe is expanding, according to most accurate estimate yet made by science   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 41
    More: Amusing, Spitzer Space Telescope, universe, Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe, Large Magellanic Cloud, Hubble Space Telescope, cosmic dust, kilometres per second, apparent brightness  
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41 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2012-10-05 08:13:53 PM
Can someone dumb it down even more? Difficulty: so even I can understand it. I know, its hard, but please, I want to play with the big boys, too
 
2012-10-05 08:18:35 PM
FTFA: 74.3 ± 2.1 kilometres per second per megaparsec

Though going to The Daily Mail for this information is a bit like using a concussed 3 year old as your science authority,
 
2012-10-05 08:28:55 PM

jimmyego: FTFA: 74.3 ± 2.1 kilometres per second per megaparsec

Though going to The Daily Mail for this information is a bit like using a concussed 3 year old as your science authority,


You are dealing with me, you gotta dumb it down even more
 
2012-10-05 08:49:22 PM
Nice picture of the Spitzer scope.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-05 08:55:21 PM
I'm sure there's a plot of Hubble constant vs. time out there but I can't find it. In 1930 it was 500 km/s/Mpc. There was a series of major corrections (oh, there are two kinds of Cepheid variables, we'll have to make the universe bigger). Around 1990 there was a young universe 100 km/s/Mpc faction and an old universe 50 km/s/Mpc faction. Some time after I was in school the sides got together and split the difference between their estimates.
 
2012-10-05 08:55:57 PM

cman: Can someone dumb it down even more? Difficulty: so even I can understand it. I know, its hard, but please, I want to play with the big boys, too


The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, the speed of light, you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is
 
2012-10-05 08:58:34 PM
Anyone think the rubber band theory (the big crunch) is a possibility?
 
2012-10-05 09:31:14 PM

cman: Anyone think the rubber band theory (the big crunch) is a possibility?


It looks more like we're heading to the heat death.
 
2012-10-05 11:04:22 PM

cman: Can someone dumb it down even more? Difficulty: so even I can understand it. I know, its hard, but please, I want to play with the big boys, too


Bad Astronomy to the rescue.
 
2012-10-05 11:04:52 PM

Kanemano: cman: Can someone dumb it down even more? Difficulty: so even I can understand it. I know, its hard, but please, I want to play with the big boys, too

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, the speed of light, you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is


Monty Python reference, huh. Link
 
2012-10-05 11:08:09 PM

cman: Can someone dumb it down even more? Difficulty: so even I can understand it. I know, its hard, but please, I want to play with the big boys, too


Fine. I'll do it:

Just remember that your standing on a planet thats evolving,
revolving at nine-hundred miles an hour.
Its orbiting at ninety miles a second, so its reckoned.
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars
that we can see are moving at a million miles a day
in an outer spiral arm at forty-thousand miles an hour
of the galaxy we call the Milky Way

Our galaxy itself
contains a hundred billion stars
its a hundred thousand lightyears side to side
it bulges in the middle
sixteen-thousand lightyears thick
but out by us its just three-thousand lightyears wide
were thirty-thousand lightyears from galatic central point
we go round every two-hundred-million years
and our galaxy is only one of millions of billions in this amazing and expanding universe.

/care to donate your organs?
 
2012-10-05 11:49:27 PM

cman: Can someone dumb it down even more? Difficulty: so even I can understand it. I know, its hard, but please, I want to play with the big boys, too


It just means a few more weeks travel time to colonize Andromeda. You might want to leave your keys to your Mars condo with your neighbors so they can feed the Mars cat.
 
2012-10-05 11:57:56 PM

simplicimus: cman: Anyone think the rubber band theory (the big crunch) is a possibility?

It looks more like we're heading to the heat death.


Yup. From the wikipedia: "Recent experimental evidence (namely the observation of distant supernova as standard candles, and the well-resolved mapping of the cosmic microwave background) has led to speculation that the expansion of the universe is not being slowed down by gravity but rather accelerating. However, since the nature of the dark energy that is postulated to drive the acceleration is unknown, it is still possible (though not observationally supported as of today) that it might eventually reverse sign and cause a collapse."

And then there's this theory:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2012/06/the-greatdark-energy-de ba te-does-the-mysterious-anti-gravitaional-force-driving-the-universe-ap art-e.html
"Senovilla proposes that we have been fooled into thinking the expansion of the universe is accelerating, when in reality, time itself is slowing down. Senovilla says the appearance of acceleration is caused by time itself gradually slowing down, like a clock with a run-down battery." 

It's a fun time to be alive when there's all this science to be done!
 
2012-10-06 12:05:33 AM
img38.imageshack.us
 
2012-10-06 12:09:04 AM
Which is all the more impressive when you remember that space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

/Don't Panic
 
2012-10-06 12:12:37 AM

Kanemano: cman: Can someone dumb it down even more? Difficulty: so even I can understand it. I know, its hard, but please, I want to play with the big boys, too

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, the speed of light, you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is


Came for this
 
2012-10-06 12:25:27 AM
The thing that I don't get is that we can see almost as far away as there universe is old (makes sense), but in every direction? How does that work?
 
2012-10-06 12:28:28 AM

picturescrazy: The thing that I don't get is that we can see almost as far away as there universe is old (makes sense), but in every direction? How does that work?


To clarify, in my uneducated head it would seem we could see quite far into the distance/past in one direction, but a relatively limited view in the direction we're expanding towards.
 
2012-10-06 12:33:56 AM

cman: Can someone dumb it down even more? Difficulty: so even I can understand it. I know, its hard, but please, I want to play with the big boys, too


Yakko's Universe Song
 
2012-10-06 12:44:14 AM

ZAZ: I'm sure there's a plot of Hubble constant vs. time out there but I can't find it. In 1930 it was 500 km/s/Mpc. There was a series of major corrections (oh, there are two kinds of Cepheid variables, we'll have to make the universe bigger). Around 1990 there was a young universe 100 km/s/Mpc faction and an old universe 50 km/s/Mpc faction. Some time after I was in school the sides got together and split the difference between their estimates.


So, what's the fuel mileage on that?
 
2012-10-06 12:49:06 AM
46 miles per second per megaparsec

This doesn't actually sound that fast to me.

3 million light years away = 46 miles per second
 
2012-10-06 01:03:01 AM
The universe is expanding so fast, that the things that are far away from you look small because at the time that the light left them to get to your eye, they actually were that small. For instance that TV over there.

/no?
 
2012-10-06 01:03:17 AM
And for the record, 46 miles per second, while it seems fast, is only about 6 times the escape velocity of Earth, and less than three times the speed of the Earth around the sun.

So, a million light-years away, the universe is expanding about twice as fast as a rocket zooming away from Earth.
 
2012-10-06 01:14:17 AM
I am in our system and in a ship going away from our sun. I am going 2 times the speed of light and hold a mirror up one foot in front of my face, what do I see in the mirror?
 
2012-10-06 01:24:51 AM

Lava_Backflips: I am in our system and in a ship going away from our sun. I am going 2 times the speed of light and hold a mirror up one foot in front of my face, what do I see in the mirror?


img.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-06 01:25:10 AM

Lava_Backflips: I am in our system and in a ship going away from our sun. I am going 2 times the speed of light and hold a mirror up one foot in front of my face, what do I see in the mirror?


You can never go faster than the speed of light based on our current understanding of physics. This seems to be a constraint built into the this Universe, and not likely to change. (but you know that and a making a joke).
 
2012-10-06 02:14:48 AM

Lava_Backflips: I am in our system and in a ship going away from our sun. I am going 2 times the speed of light and hold a mirror up one foot in front of my face, what do I see in the mirror?


Speed is relative, so assuming you we're holding the light source creating your reflection, you'd see your face.

I could be wrong though, it's kinda wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
 
2012-10-06 02:24:48 AM

Harry_Seldon: Lava_Backflips: I am in our system and in a ship going away from our sun. I am going 2 times the speed of light and hold a mirror up one foot in front of my face, what do I see in the mirror?

You can never go faster than the speed of light based on our current understanding of physics. This seems to be a constraint built into the this Universe, and not likely to change. (but you know that and a making a joke).


If the ship kept accelerating its time would slow down and it could seem to the passengers that they are going faster than light. They would see nothing in the rear view mirror. For some reason the entire universe, including the part behind them, would appear scrunched into a small field of view in front of the ship.
 
2012-10-06 02:30:55 AM

ZAZ: I'm sure there's a plot of Hubble constant vs. time out there but I can't find it. In 1930 it was 500 km/s/Mpc. There was a series of major corrections (oh, there are two kinds of Cepheid variables, we'll have to make the universe bigger). Around 1990 there was a young universe 100 km/s/Mpc faction and an old universe 50 km/s/Mpc faction. Some time after I was in school the sides got together and split the difference between their estimates.


Came for this...which makes the Daily Fail's headline even more failureful.

And here's the Hubble-constant-versus-time plot: 

galaxyzooblog.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-06 02:38:02 AM
Jai Guru Deva. Om.
 
2012-10-06 03:08:24 AM

OriginalGamer: Lava_Backflips: I am in our system and in a ship going away from our sun. I am going 2 times the speed of light and hold a mirror up one foot in front of my face, what do I see in the mirror?

Speed is relative, so assuming you we're holding the light source creating your reflection, you'd see your face.

I could be wrong though, it's kinda wibbly wobbly timey wimey.


No, you're right.

You would see your face.

Someone standing still at another point relative to you would see something different.
 
2012-10-06 04:31:50 AM
Okay a couple things not mentioned.

It may not be that the universe is expanding that fast, but it may be that our area of space is moving very quickly, throwing off our readings. I'm not sure how far this space telescope has to be to minimize that effect.

Semi related to that - faster than light travel is sort of possible. If the universe's expansion is accelerating, two objects going in opposite directions could at some point appear to be moving away from one another at faster than light speed, essentially causing those bodies to disappear from our visible view.

Also, this conspiracy article strongly suggests that the DoD has already developed FTL communication. http://astroengineer.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/a-curiosity-of-spirit-fu ll-document/

A quick wiki search shows that there is indeed FTL communication being tested on Earth, and has been reported to be successful at a range of 89 miles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation

As for how we could move objects at faster than light speeds, it would have to involve some type of manipulation of "dark energy," whatever that is. If you could negate the accelerating expansion effect in the area around a spacecraft, you could in theory achieve relative faster than light travel to some object by the same principle that would cause them to disappear from our view, as explained above. However, since we don't even really know what dark energy is, that could be a long way off.

Not a scientist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
 
2012-10-06 07:07:33 AM
My first thought when I read about the end of entropy was that our actual reality is we are being sucked into some kind of giant black hole. Much like we don't realize how many different directions we are spinning at just amazingly high speeds, earth spins, around the Sun spins, Galaxy spins, Universe spins, etc., we just don't realize what's really happening. My head, it spins. For some reason every time I typed spins I first typed spings and had to go back and correct it. Any farking farker know what a sping is?
 
2012-10-06 08:51:15 AM
But what is it expanding into? What is it displacing as it is expanding?

/Whoa!
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-10-06 09:50:39 AM
justtray

Cosmologists accept the "cosmological principle" (q.v.) which says we probably live in a typical part of the universe. It's like Occam's Razor, but bigger.

We are moving with respect to the universe at large. (Search term: CMB dipole.)
 
2012-10-06 10:25:28 AM

IronTom: The universe is expanding so fast, that the things that are far away from you look small because at the time that the light left them to get to your eye, they actually were that small. For instance that TV over there.

/no?


pics.livejournal.com

stupid-tees.co.uk
 
2012-10-06 11:34:43 AM

MartinD-35: My first thought when I read about the end of entropy was that our actual reality is we are being sucked into some kind of giant black hole. ....


That's what I was going to say. Maybe all that space stuff isn't flying away from us faster... maybe we're falling into the gravity well faster.

/Help! I've fallen (into a black hole) and I can't get up!
 
2012-10-06 12:11:18 PM

justtray: Okay a couple things not mentioned.

It may not be that the universe is expanding that fast, but it may be that our area of space is moving very quickly, throwing off our readings. I'm not sure how far this space telescope has to be to minimize that effect.

Semi related to that - faster than light travel is sort of possible. If the universe's expansion is accelerating, two objects going in opposite directions could at some point appear to be moving away from one another at faster than light speed, essentially causing those bodies to disappear from our visible view.

Also, this conspiracy article strongly suggests that the DoD has already developed FTL communication. http://astroengineer.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/a-curiosity-of-spirit-fu ll-document/

A quick wiki search shows that there is indeed FTL communication being tested on Earth, and has been reported to be successful at a range of 89 miles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation

As for how we could move objects at faster than light speeds, it would have to involve some type of manipulation of "dark energy," whatever that is. If you could negate the accelerating expansion effect in the area around a spacecraft, you could in theory achieve relative faster than light travel to some object by the same principle that would cause them to disappear from our view, as explained above. However, since we don't even really know what dark energy is, that could be a long way off.

Not a scientist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.


Did you say FTL?

/Just got the Engi ship. This game is HARD but enjoyable because of that.
 
2012-10-06 12:53:29 PM
Bad Astronomy: The Universe obeys rules, and by doing so reveals those rules to us. We just have to be smart enough to investigate them and learn about them.

And we are that smart.


Phil obviously doesn't listen to Fox News.
 
2012-10-06 04:25:53 PM

RockofAges: justtray: Okay a couple things not mentioned.

It may not be that the universe is expanding that fast, but it may be that our area of space is moving very quickly, throwing off our readings. I'm not sure how far this space telescope has to be to minimize that effect.

Semi related to that - faster than light travel is sort of possible. If the universe's expansion is accelerating, two objects going in opposite directions could at some point appear to be moving away from one another at faster than light speed, essentially causing those bodies to disappear from our visible view.

Also, this conspiracy article strongly suggests that the DoD has already developed FTL communication. http://astroengineer.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/a-curiosity-of-spirit-fu ll-document/

A quick wiki search shows that there is indeed FTL communication being tested on Earth, and has been reported to be successful at a range of 89 miles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_teleportation

As for how we could move objects at faster than light speeds, it would have to involve some type of manipulation of "dark energy," whatever that is. If you could negate the accelerating expansion effect in the area around a spacecraft, you could in theory achieve relative faster than light travel to some object by the same principle that would cause them to disappear from our view, as explained above. However, since we don't even really know what dark energy is, that could be a long way off.

Not a scientist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Did you say FTL?

/Just got the Engi ship. This game is HARD but enjoyable because of that.


Wait wait wait... FTL is finally out?! As in, I can download and play it? How much and where do I go?
 
2012-10-06 04:33:05 PM

darthdrafter: MartinD-35: My first thought when I read about the end of entropy was that our actual reality is we are being sucked into some kind of giant black hole. ....

That's what I was going to say. Maybe all that space stuff isn't flying away from us faster... maybe we're falling into the gravity well faster.

/Help! I've fallen (into a black hole) and I can't get up!


What's the current theory about where the mass and energy that goes into a black hole winds up?
 
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