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(Talking Points Memo)   Moments after the unemployment numbers were released, Jack Welch insisted the Bureau of Labor Statistics was part of a vast conspiracy and they are helping President Obama change numbers. Jack Welch has created a Job Truthers movement   (2012.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 293
    More: Followup, Bureau of Labor Statistics, President Obama, truther, rules for radicals, Saul Alinsky, local governments, wharton business school, Department of Labor  
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6269 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Oct 2012 at 1:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-05 04:14:30 PM
Since manipulating those numbers for political reasons would require federal employees to be in violation of the Hatch act, just how long before he gets sued for libel? Talk about nice deep pockets!
 
2012-10-05 04:14:48 PM

vegasj: but do they count the people out of work who cannot claim unemployment anymore?

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 600x600]

Nope.


If you're going to be a lying sack of shat, why don't you just say unemployment is 100%.
 
2012-10-05 04:15:34 PM

archichris: ManateeGag: So:
Anything that looks even remotely bad for Romney = Grand conspiracy or falsehood to get Obama reelected.
Anything that looks even remotely bad for Obama = God's honest truth and should be trusted with every fiber of your being.

does that cover it?

Class, take out your calculators and perform the following calculation:

7.8 / .3 x 114,000 = 2964000

By the math of this labor report we only need 2,964,000 jobs to reduce the unemployment rate to 0%.

But of course you know that isnt true. You know that this number only represents people who have looked for a job in the last 6 months. It does not count the much larger number of people who have simply given up.

You may also be aware that this was predicted months ago by Rush Limbaugh. Say what you will about him, but he has been saying that we should look to October for a magical sub 8% unemployment rate.

The real math has the unemployment rate at about 11% and when you include people who have a job but need more work or a better job, the number jumps to more like 23%.

Which is about 11 million jobs, which is right about at the amount we would have needed through the course of the Obama Presidency to keep up with new workers entering the labor force.

Vote your pocket book or vote your welfare check, but dont lie to yourself about your candidate.


The 114,000 number comes from a survey of businesses, and the 7.8% comes from a survey of households. They don't move hand-in-hand, and there are often discrepancies. The biggest source of discrepancy, of course, comes from self-employed individuals and people working on an ad hoc basis (babysitters, cleaning ladies, delivery people, etc). Farm workers are also not counted in the survey of businesses, but they still comprise something like 1% of the workforce. The establishment survey (survey of businesses) also are often adjusted after the due date because of surveys that are returned late -- for example the August data was adjusted upwards by 46,000, and the July data by 40,000 in the most recent release. Lastly, there's the fundamental problem with any survey -- that the people that you surveyed are slightly out of sync with the population (or the business world) as a whole. That last bit of statistical error would hit the household survey and the establishment survey in different ways because of pure randomness.
 
2012-10-05 04:16:23 PM
"He had some friends in Congress too. Rep. Allen West (R-FL) tweeted "I agree with former GE CEO Jack Welch, Chicago style politics is at work here."

And who invented 'Chicago style' politics? It wasn't Papa Murphy. It was the Republicans!

In way of contrast, Canada's job numbers were up considerably for September as well. Seeing as our economies are fairly close, it would substantiate the US job numbers data... Unless Harper has become a Democrat (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA).
 
2012-10-05 04:17:02 PM

vegasj: but do they count the people out of work who cannot claim unemployment anymore?

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 600x600]

Nope.


Actually, they do. Don't worry, there's always a bunch of people who make that mistake every month in these threads, so don't feel too bad about it.
 
2012-10-05 04:17:08 PM

I_C_Weener: Bonkthat_Again: Jack Welch is single handedly responsible for creating the majority of misery in working for Corporate America.

I'm going out on a limb here, but this appears to be hyperbole.


My guess is that you've never encountered the GE model, or had any interaction with GE as a partner. It may be hyperbole, but it's so damn close to the truth, it's a coonthair off from being an absolute fact.
 
2012-10-05 04:18:52 PM

WhyteRaven74: Great_Milenko: yes, they absolutely could.

BTW Apple has admitted that building their stuff in the US wouldn't be prohibitively expensive.



You could increase the labor unit cost by a factor of 10, and the iPhone would still be profitable. IIRC, the main benefit of making them where they are is the supply chain system.
 
2012-10-05 04:20:24 PM

ringersol: Hey, at least makes some sense as a goal.
As opposed to the last derping point about Obama keeping gas prices higher because... who the fark knows why?
(somehow high gas prices were thought to be *good* for his re-election chances? or something?)


I don't think you can get a clearer example of how patently insane our country and its discourse have become, than tracking the inane 'criticisms' of Obama that have been and continue to be created. It's like all the fringe lunatic shiat said by random internet accounts about GWB -- but when it's pointed at Obama, it's coming from Congressmen, Senators, State politicians, party officials, prominent talking heads and radio hosts, former administration officials... It's absolutely mind-bottling.


I lol-d.
 
2012-10-05 04:20:30 PM

EyeballKid: It would be the first time that walking turd actually created something worthwhile.


I was going to disagree, but then I remembered Mister Hankey hops.
 
2012-10-05 04:26:23 PM

archichris: Vote your pocket book or vote your welfare check, but dont lie to yourself about your candidate.


Right, so vote for the guy who spent his career destroying American jobs and was governor of the state that was 47th in employment. That sounds awe...what the fark am even doing, I'm talking to someone who just quoted Rush Limbaugh.
 
2012-10-05 04:28:48 PM
i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-10-05 04:35:47 PM
Neither Dems nor Reps want to create jobs, However they both wish to create perpetual economic debt slaves. I will never vote for either Gang ever again, I don't even care if their canidate is Zombie Jesus II or Reincarnated JFK or MLK.
 
2012-10-05 04:36:27 PM

Civil_War2_Time: MSFT: Civil_War2_Time: Big job gains: Oil and gas.
Big job losses: Aerospace, defense and security.

Both are industries the liberals want to wreck, but have only succeeded in doing that to one of them...

Once Romney gets elected, and "sequestration" is revoked, huge job gains in A, D&S will make him (Obama) look like a fool for signing that into effect last year.

Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies.
Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s.
God Is Born Of A Mother -
She Left Belly B. Signature.
Every Priest Has Ma Sign
But Lies To Honor Queers.
Belly B. Proves 4 Corners.

I don't even know WTF you are trying to say.


Your post was silly gibberish with no basis in fact. That's what he was trying to say.
 
2012-10-05 04:37:28 PM
Jack Welch is quite a guy, an a credit to his race. But, no matter what the time or opportunity he can always wrap his dick all the way around his finger.
 
2012-10-05 04:42:03 PM

vegasj: but do they count the people out of work who cannot claim unemployment anymore?

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 600x600]

Nope.


http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

Persons not in the labor force (not seasonally adjusted)
Marginally attached to the labor force.. . . . . . . . . 2,511 2,529 2,561 2,517 -
Discouraged workers.. . . . ................................. . 1,037 852 844 802 -

That's from the bottom of page 4. The numbers are Sept 2011, July 2012, Aug 2012, and Sept 2012.

The number marginally attached changed an insignificant number, but "discouraged workers", people who have given up looking for work, has gone WAY down in the last year, about 20%. The unemployment rate dropped in spite of over 40,000 people who have found or are looking for work when they weren't looking a month ago.

If you are talking about actually receiving unemployment, that has NOTHING to do with this. They don't use that at all. It's completely irrelevant to these numbers. They survey thousands of businesses and thousands of people. That's it.
 
2012-10-05 04:49:06 PM

vegasj: but do they count the people out of work who cannot claim unemployment anymore?

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 600x600]

Nope.


they didn't count them under Bush either
 
2012-10-05 04:50:51 PM
so do we add the Bureau of Labor Statistics to the list of things opposing the GOP?
 
2012-10-05 04:54:37 PM
Jack

STFU & get back to making my juice.
 
2012-10-05 04:56:52 PM

medieval: MSFT: Civil_War2_Time: Big job gains: Oil and gas.
Big job losses: Aerospace, defense and security.

Both are industries the liberals want to wreck, but have only succeeded in doing that to one of them...

Once Romney gets elected, and "sequestration" is revoked, huge job gains in A, D&S will make him (Obama) look like a fool for signing that into effect last year.

Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies.
Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s.
God Is Born Of A Mother -
She Left Belly B. Signature.
Every Priest Has Ma Sign
But Lies To Honor Queers.
Belly B. Proves 4 Corners.

hnnnnng what the fark am I reading


Romney/Ray 2012!
img717.imageshack.us
 
2012-10-05 04:58:43 PM
So... it has come to this.
 
2012-10-05 05:13:31 PM

vegasj: but do they count the people out of work who cannot claim unemployment anymore?

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 600x600]

Nope.


Google "U6", and then find when the last update to that metric was. Post it here, then apologize for either "posting while un(der)informed", or "being a disingenuous cock".

// because intellectual honesty should mean something, dammit
// unless I meant "U3", in which case, Google that one instead
 
kab
2012-10-05 05:23:24 PM
Funny, you didn't seem to give a fark about adding to the unemployment pool when you were at the helm, did you?

Choke yourself.
 
2012-10-05 05:50:45 PM

meat0918: Well, America had a nice run, but she can't compete with the massive amount of FUD because 40% of the country doesn't like the president despite things getting demonstratively and quantitatively better over the last 4 years.

I wish we had a computer sim of the last 4 years, and we could see what would happen if Republicans hadn't made Obama being a one term president their number one goal, and instead had worked with him.


Well, if the RNC made the simulation, it would say that the US would be a soviet-style communist dicatorship vassal-state of China, under Sharia Law, with Obama as President-for-life, Christianity outlawed, private gun ownership outlawed and Death PanelsTM deciding when to euthanize senior citizens because their healthcare costs became uneconomical.

That's what they seem to be saying will happen if he ever gets what he wants. That's been the right-wing talking points since Day One of what America will be like under Obama. . .and if he gets a second term that's when he'll really put it into effect because he won't have to worry about being re-elected.
 
2012-10-05 06:12:07 PM

Lochsteppe: Civil_War2_Time: MSFT: Civil_War2_Time: Big job gains: Oil and gas.
Big job losses: Aerospace, defense and security.

Both are industries the liberals want to wreck, but have only succeeded in doing that to one of them...

Once Romney gets elected, and "sequestration" is revoked, huge job gains in A, D&S will make him (Obama) look like a fool for signing that into effect last year.

Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies.
Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s.
God Is Born Of A Mother -
She Left Belly B. Signature.
Every Priest Has Ma Sign
But Lies To Honor Queers.
Belly B. Proves 4 Corners.

I don't even know WTF you are trying to say.

Your post was silly gibberish with no basis in fact. That's what he was trying to say.


Exactly - I thought we were trading time cube quotes, did I get that wrong?
 
2012-10-05 06:15:25 PM

Civil_War2_Time: Big job gains: Oil and gas.
Big job losses: Aerospace, defense and security.

Both are industries the liberals want to wreck, but have only succeeded in doing that to one of them...

Once Romney gets elected, and "sequestration" is revoked, huge job gains in A, D&S will make him (Obama) look like a fool for signing that into effect last year.


Ah! So your fellah will massively hike government spending, like a good socialist.

Nice to know.
 
2012-10-05 06:17:40 PM

kc278:
Romney/Ray 2012!


12 corners
 
2012-10-05 06:46:50 PM

ManateeGag: So:
Anything that looks even remotely bad for Romney = Grand conspiracy or falsehood to get Obama reelected.
Anything that looks even remotely bad for Obama = God's honest truth and should be trusted with every fiber of your being.

does that cover it?


Exactly.
 
2012-10-05 06:50:43 PM
To believe in a conspiracy theory you have to be sufficiently negative on someone to think they would actually do such a thing.

Which pretty much means you're not voting for them anyway.

Which pretty much means your conspiracy theory isn't going to change anyone's minds.
 
2012-10-05 07:08:00 PM

Silverstaff: That's been the right-wing talking points since Day One of what America will be like under Obama. . .and if he gets a second term that's when he'll really put it into effect because he won't have to worry about being re-elected.


That viewpoint has always amused me. If Obama gets elected to a second term, suddenly he'll have unlimited power and the Republicans who have stood directly in the way of anything and everything Obama tried to do in his first term are suddenly going to roll over and be utterly powerless to stop him from becoming a dictator for life.
 
2012-10-05 07:22:55 PM
How Jack he knows the numbers are wrong

i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-05 07:25:39 PM

MacWizard: Silverstaff: That's been the right-wing talking points since Day One of what America will be like under Obama. . .and if he gets a second term that's when he'll really put it into effect because he won't have to worry about being re-elected.

That viewpoint has always amused me. If Obama gets elected to a second term, suddenly he'll have unlimited power and the Republicans who have stood directly in the way of anything and everything Obama tried to do in his first term are suddenly going to roll over and be utterly powerless to stop him from becoming a dictator for life.


Laugh if you will, but I know people who believe this.
 
2012-10-05 07:53:26 PM

Sock Ruh Tease: impaler: Is Gallup in on it too?

[growlersoftware.com image 580x559]

[growlersoftware.com image 580x544]

Typical liberal polling by Gallup there. Rasmussen polled 5,000 children and senior citizens and found a whopping 99% unemployment rate. There is simply no excuse for 99% unemployment, no matter how much Presidebt Barack wants to try to make one up. This is due to Barry Hussein Marshall Davis's failed leadership and policies.


That's a new one. And a good one. And one I will shamelessly steal in the future :-)
 
2012-10-05 08:35:12 PM

Arkanaut: archichris: ManateeGag: So:
Anything that looks even remotely bad for Romney = Grand conspiracy or falsehood to get Obama reelected.
Anything that looks even remotely bad for Obama = God's honest truth and should be trusted with every fiber of your being.

does that cover it?

Class, take out your calculators and perform the following calculation:

7.8 / .3 x 114,000 = 2964000

By the math of this labor report we only need 2,964,000 jobs to reduce the unemployment rate to 0%.

But of course you know that isnt true. You know that this number only represents people who have looked for a job in the last 6 months. It does not count the much larger number of people who have simply given up.

You may also be aware that this was predicted months ago by Rush Limbaugh. Say what you will about him, but he has been saying that we should look to October for a magical sub 8% unemployment rate.

The real math has the unemployment rate at about 11% and when you include people who have a job but need more work or a better job, the number jumps to more like 23%.

Which is about 11 million jobs, which is right about at the amount we would have needed through the course of the Obama Presidency to keep up with new workers entering the labor force.

Vote your pocket book or vote your welfare check, but dont lie to yourself about your candidate.

The 114,000 number comes from a survey of businesses, and the 7.8% comes from a survey of households. They don't move hand-in-hand, and there are often discrepancies. The biggest source of discrepancy, of course, comes from self-employed individuals and people working on an ad hoc basis (babysitters, cleaning ladies, delivery people, etc). Farm workers are also not counted in the survey of businesses, but they still comprise something like 1% of the workforce. The establishment survey (survey of businesses) also are often adjusted after the due date because of surveys that are returned late -- for example the August data was adjusted upwards ...


Margin of error in the household survey was 400,000 jobs +/- SO about 50%. A 50% margin of error. But its all irrelevant as long as they insist on using the U6 number. There are far more people sitting out the economy waiting for brighter skys ahead than the U6 can account for.
 
2012-10-05 09:07:42 PM

archichris: Margin of error in the household survey was 400,000 jobs +/- SO about 50%. A 50% margin of error.


There are only 800,000 jobs in our economy?
 
2012-10-05 09:46:57 PM

meat0918: Lt_Ryan: meat0918: Well, America had a nice run, but she can't compete with the massive amount of FUD because 40% of the country doesn't like the president despite things getting demonstratively and quantitatively better over the last 4 years.

I wish we had a computer sim of the last 4 years, and we could see what would happen if Republicans hadn't made Obama being a one term president their number one goal, and instead had worked with him.

Obama: I won.

Not sure if you can pin the non-cooperation solely on the the Republicans.



Boehner: I do. When you look at this final agreement that we came to with the white House, I got 98 percent of what I wanted. I'm pretty happy.

 

We can do this dance all day, but there are many, many examples of the president reaching out and incorporating some Republican ideas into his proposals and the Republicans smacking the hand away.


This pissed me off more than anything! We are in an economic crisis. We need a government willing to make compromises. Obama reached out multiple times to the Republicans for compromise and they didn't budge! They would have rather the economy crapped out than compromise to improve to country.
 
2012-10-05 11:31:36 PM

lennavan: I would just like to take this moment to remind people GE has made $80 Billion in the last decade, paying a 2.3% tax rate on that profit.


"And also, its CEO is an idiot."
 
2012-10-06 01:17:10 AM

JackieRabbit: jjorsett: I don't know why people are having such a hard time believing the best improvement in the jobless rate in 30 years happened one month before a presidential election.

[i50.tinypic.com image 350x277]

Best improvement in the jobless rate in 30 years? Where'd you get that? It only fell by 0.3% - an increase of 114K jobs. That's encouraging, but it is hardly historic. The number could be cooked, I don't deny that. But it could also be accurate. The BLS issue the monthly jobs report on the first Friday of every month. And over the last four months the trend trend for unemployment has been clearly downward.


A delta of 0.4% in one month is what I'm talking about. The underlying numbers belie it, but nobody but us geeks pay attention to that stuff; all the public will see is that one number, 7.8%. What makes me most suspicious is that there are two sets of data that go into these figures, and the 114K comes from hard data (or at least semi-firm, since those numbers keep getting revised over subsequent months). The 7.8% comes from a household survey, i.e. a poll, and polls have a way of being, shall we say, "flexible". What we see in later months will reveal whether there were any shenanigans going on here. I'd guess it's a better than even bet there were.
 
2012-10-06 05:32:33 AM
knightin.typepad.com

Yes, the real unemployment rate (unemployed+underemployed) is around %14 right now. To add insult to injury, we lost a whole lot of high and middle income jobs during the recession, but the jobs that have replaced them are almost all low wage jobs... We need to create jobs at twice the rate we are, and a significant portion of them need to be well paying...

/voting for Romney
//duh
 
2012-10-06 06:03:29 AM

jjorsett: A delta of 0.4% in one month is what I'm talking about. The underlying numbers belie it, but nobody but us geeks pay attention to that stuff; all the public will see is that one number, 7.8%. What makes me most suspicious is that there are two sets of data that go into these figures, and the 114K comes from hard data (or at least semi-firm, since those numbers keep getting revised over subsequent months). The 7.8% comes from a household survey, i.e. a poll, and polls have a way of being, shall we say, "flexible". What we see in later months will reveal whether there were any shenanigans going on here. I'd guess it's a better than even bet there were.


You geeks? You mean frothy wingnuts that see a conspiracy in everything.
 
2012-10-06 12:20:38 PM

Maul555: [knightin.typepad.com image 800x474]

Yes, the real unemployment rate (unemployed+underemployed) is around %14 right now. To add insult to injury, we lost a whole lot of high and middle income jobs during the recession, but the jobs that have replaced them are almost all low wage jobs... We need to create jobs at twice the rate we are, and a significant portion of them need to be well paying...

/voting for Romney
//duh


Need>Resources.
Fix that with a vote, fool.
 
2012-10-06 02:27:15 PM

snocone: Maul555: [knightin.typepad.com image 800x474]

Yes, the real unemployment rate (unemployed+underemployed) is around %14 right now. To add insult to injury, we lost a whole lot of high and middle income jobs during the recession, but the jobs that have replaced them are almost all low wage jobs... We need to create jobs at twice the rate we are, and a significant portion of them need to be well paying...

/voting for Romney
//duh

Need>Resources.
Fix that with a vote, fool.


You are wrong. We have the resources... also you are going onto my ignore list, fool..
 
2012-10-06 04:35:03 PM

Maul555: snocone: Maul555: [knightin.typepad.com image 800x474]

Yes, the real unemployment rate (unemployed+underemployed) is around %14 right now. To add insult to injury, we lost a whole lot of high and middle income jobs during the recession, but the jobs that have replaced them are almost all low wage jobs... We need to create jobs at twice the rate we are, and a significant portion of them need to be well paying...

/voting for Romney
//duh

Need>Resources.
Fix that with a vote, fool.

You are wrong. We have the resources... also you are going onto my ignore list, fool..


more bullchit
you know you love me
you can't stay away
 
2012-10-07 06:06:14 PM

Maul555: Yes, the real unemployment rate (unemployed+underemployed) is around %14 right now. To add insult to injury, we lost a whole lot of high and middle income jobs during the recession, but the jobs that have replaced them are almost all low wage jobs... We need to create jobs at twice the rate we are, and a significant portion of them need to be well paying...

/voting for Romney
//duh


Why is this recovery not acting like all the other post-war recoveries? Because government spending has declined:

From that noted bastion of socialism: the Wall Street Journal

The other main difference? Too many people in Congress who forgot their No. 1 responsibility was to the American public. So instead of making the economic recovery their main priority, you have people like GOP Senate leader Mitch McConnell who said his #1 priority was making sure Obama was a one-term president. Isn't that pretty close to treason? Actively working against your country's best interests? 

/And "duh" is exactly what your comment deserved.
 
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