If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mother Jones)   Paul Ryan: "Let's make this country a tax shelter", like the Cayman Islands where we can sip drinks on the beach and count cash with our toes   (motherjones.com) divider line 80
    More: Interesting, Paul Ryan, Cayman Islands, collective investment scheme, arms industries, capital formation, first world countries, McKinsey, beaches  
•       •       •

1818 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Oct 2012 at 1:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



80 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-05 11:57:49 AM
Let's just have everything be free and not have any taxes at all!
 
2012-10-05 12:27:54 PM
I have a better idea. Let's stop pulling our pants down and letting low wage countries fark our labor market in the ass.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-05 12:35:57 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I have a better idea. Let's stop pulling our pants down and letting low wage countries fark our labor market in the ass.


It's not low wage countries, it's American investors who hire lobbyists to get "free trade" policies passed so that they can have the benefits of the American consumer market without having to contribute anything, like jobs or import duties.
 
2012-10-05 12:55:41 PM
Lower corporate taxes will not bring in jobs. A company might setup a 'front office' here but they will continue to operate where the labor and that such is cheaper.
 
2012-10-05 01:08:54 PM
No. Go fark yourself, Paul Ryan.
 
2012-10-05 01:10:24 PM
Yeah, let's adopt third world banking laws in America.
Brilliant idea.
I think it's time the medical profession identified "Randroid Retardation" as a formal mental disorder.
 
2012-10-05 01:12:40 PM
So we're going to replace our taxes with huge tariffs on imported goods? I suppose that works for me but your outsourcing buddies are going to be pissed.
 
2012-10-05 01:16:26 PM
A database holding the digital records of billions of dollars which can be transferred instantaneously anywhere in the world doesn't really do anything for the people living near it.
 
2012-10-05 01:16:27 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-05 01:19:03 PM
FTA: What the past Republican budget says is bring those tax rates down to 25 percent on the corporate side, as well.

Here's what I don't get, and I may be wrong. Corporations have a rate of 30%, but there are enough loopholes that many corporations pay effectively zero, right?

So then what does the corporate tax rate matter in the end? I get the sense that corporate tax rates are kind of like net points for movie writers - there's always a way to say, "Oh, we have zero profits" through accounting tactics and the government/the writers never see any of that money anyway.

The point is that we're already effectively a tax haven for corporations, and it isn't doing me any good.
 
2012-10-05 01:21:31 PM
We really need to pressure DE to stop with the shadiness. There was a WSJ writeup of their "business" practices - some 9,000 entities all share a mailbox in one building. The black market's finances run out of Delaware, as do most of the gray market's. As do many of the legal market's, though by putting them in Delaware, we can only speculate as to how legal or non-shady those entities and their activities are.

It's like having a third-world fingers-in-ears island paradise, right here in the Freest Country on Earth!
 
2012-10-05 01:24:48 PM

Rapmaster2000: A database holding the digital records of billions of dollars which can be transferred instantaneously anywhere in the world doesn't really do anything for the people living near it.


But think of the 5 IT jobs that will be created to maintain the server housing it all!
 
JW
2012-10-05 01:28:46 PM
RACE TO THE BOTTOM!
 
2012-10-05 01:29:26 PM
emotibot.net
 
2012-10-05 01:33:37 PM
Nobody wins a race to the bottom.
 
2012-10-05 01:36:34 PM

hackalope: Nobody wins a race to the bottom.


The people hosting the race do.
 
2012-10-05 01:37:29 PM
Didn't watch the video, but let me guess anyway: We need to radically lower tax rates for corporations, right? Those same big corporations that never pay anything close to the current tax rate?

Fark you, Ryan. Go suck some more Koch.
 
2012-10-05 01:38:54 PM
Because they Cayman Islands have shiatload of jobs?

Oh no they don't. It's just shell companies and people parking their money there.
 
2012-10-05 01:40:09 PM
Among the biggest lies that Repubs insist on repeating:

"Taxes" live in the world of moral consructs alongside things like "sins".

As such, all taxes are morally equivalent in God's mind. $100 pulled out of a hedge fund manager's pocket is at least as sinful as $100 pulled from a hotel maid's purse, if not more so.

And of all of the factors in any possible financial equation, a rich guy's tax liability shall be deemed the largest factor. Actual magnitudes be damned.
 
2012-10-05 01:41:03 PM

Rapmaster2000: A database holding the digital records of billions of dollars which can be transferred instantaneously anywhere in the world doesn't really do anything for the people living near it.


Bingo. This will do absolutely nothing for Americans, except a tiny handful with the resources to hold all the money. This won't even benefit the top 1%. It'd benefit the top 0.1%.
 
2012-10-05 01:45:20 PM

phaseolus: Among the biggest lies that Repubs insist on repeating:

"Taxes" live in the world of moral consructs alongside things like "sins".

As such, all taxes are morally equivalent in God's mind. $100 pulled out of a hedge fund manager's pocket is at least as sinful as $100 pulled from a hotel maid's purse, if not more so.

And of all of the factors in any possible financial equation, a rich guy's tax liability shall be deemed the largest factor. Actual magnitudes be damned.


Republicans believe economics and religion are the same thing. They believe rich people are morally superior to poor people and should be "rewarded" while poor people are morally worse and should be punished. They believe economics works like punishing sinners and rewarding the good like judo-christian belief system.
 
2012-10-05 01:48:19 PM
And how do the Cayman Islands pay for the ability to be a tax shelter? Massive import duties. Surely Ryan wants those too? Right?
 
2012-10-05 01:50:23 PM
Between this guy and Walker, I no longer identify myself as "from Wisconsin" when I'm traveling. It's just too embarrassing at this point.
 
2012-10-05 01:58:25 PM
Seems appropriate:

Down to the Banana Republic
Down to the tropical sun
Go the expatriated Americans
Hoping to find some fun

Some of them go for the sailn'
Called by the lure of the sea
Trying to find what is ailing
From living in the land of the free

Some of them are running from lovers
Leaving no forward address
Some of them are running tons of ganja
Some are running from the IRS

And late at night you will find them
In the cheap hotels & bars
Hustling the senoritas while they dance beneath the stars

Spending those renegade pesos
On a bottle of rum & a lime
Singing, give me some words I can dance to
Or a melody that rhymes

First you learn the native customs
Soon a word of Spanish or two
But you know that you cannot trust them
Cause they know they can't trust you

Expatriated Americans feeling so all alone
Telling themselves the same lies
That they told themselves back home
Down to the Banana Republic things aren't as warm as they seem
When none of the natives are buying any second hand American dreams
 
2012-10-05 02:01:22 PM

Smelly McUgly: Here's what I don't get, and I may be wrong. Corporations have a rate of 30%, but there are enough loopholes that many corporations pay effectively zero, right?


those loop holes probably only apply to profits made with in the country. alot of corporations have billions in cash in offshore subsidiaries because of the rate difference between the usa and whatever tax heaven they're hording it in. the argument to lower the rate is so corporations can move those profits back and use it to hire more people (which is complete bs, the hiring more part).
 
2012-10-05 02:03:46 PM
i'm not putting my money in an american bank, that's for damn sure


/american
 
2012-10-05 02:09:51 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I have a better idea. Let's stop pulling our pants down and letting low wage countries fark our labor market in the ass.


You forgot to add the part "by dismantling all the laws, social infrastructure, and pretty much everything that makes the US a First World nation, thus making us more like the dirtbag banana republics I hope to hide my cash in some day".
 
2012-10-05 02:10:43 PM

Slives: Lower corporate taxes will not bring in jobs. A company might setup a 'front office' here but they will continue to operate where the labor and that such is cheaper.


Wage slavery is definitely cheaper than paying your people a living wage, after all.
 
2012-10-05 02:10:44 PM
ionenewsone.files.wordpress.com

This guy has a "Gerry Sandusky was my babysitter" vibe.
 
2012-10-05 02:22:12 PM
This is what passes for a Republican policy wonk, people.
 
2012-10-05 02:28:09 PM
no mention of a Star Wars bar reference from the chief economist of McKinsey???
 
2012-10-05 02:32:16 PM
But, I thought Romney said at the debates that he wasn't going to cut taxes for corporations and wealthy people.
 
2012-10-05 02:35:51 PM

12349876: And how do the Cayman Islands pay for the ability to be a tax shelter? Massive import duties. Surely Ryan wants those too? Right?


No, not at all.
 
2012-10-05 02:40:09 PM

readymix: But, I thought Romney said at the debates that he wasn't going to cut taxes for corporations and wealthy people.


Yes, but you see they're /really/ small businesses. We have to protect small businesses!

/You must have missed the part where Obama pointed out that under Romney's definition of "small business" Donald Trump is a small business.
 
2012-10-05 02:40:55 PM
Also - taxes as % GDP

Cayman Islands - 29.3
United States - 15.3

Based in CIA world fact book.
 
2012-10-05 02:41:06 PM

Smelly McUgly: FTA: What the past Republican budget says is bring those tax rates down to 25 percent on the corporate side, as well.

Here's what I don't get, and I may be wrong. Corporations have a rate of 30%, but there are enough loopholes that many corporations pay effectively zero, right?

So then what does the corporate tax rate matter in the end? I get the sense that corporate tax rates are kind of like net points for movie writers - there's always a way to say, "Oh, we have zero profits" through accounting tactics and the government/the writers never see any of that money anyway.

The point is that we're already effectively a tax haven for corporations, and it isn't doing me any good.


No, you are buying into left wing lies. GE had a negative tax rate for one year and that is the exple most often cited. The average all in corporate tax rate is 25%. This is reduced from the statutory rates due to loopholes and exemptions.

Both the GOP and Obama have proposed reducing loopholes/deductions and lowering the overall tax rate.

American loses jobs because of our relatively high corp tax rate. I don't know the specifics of Ryan's proposal, and knowjng him it probably goes too far, but most people are generally on board with lowering our overly high corporate tax rate.
 
2012-10-05 02:45:24 PM

Slives: Lower corporate taxes will not bring in jobs. A company might setup a 'front office' mailbox here but they will continue to operate where the labor and that such is cheaper.


FTFY

This is how it works on the Cayman Islands:
 
2012-10-05 02:45:37 PM
Has anyone made a quip yet along the lines of "Asking Mitt Romney which tax deductions he'd eliminate is like asking Sarah Palin which newspapers she reads"?

Because if not, dibs on that one.
 
2012-10-05 02:47:07 PM

Corvus: Because they Cayman Islands have shiatload of jobs?

Oh no they don't. It's just shell companies and people parking their money there.


I know you were being sarcastic, but you may be onto something.

If they did park money here, that would be a pretty big capital injection for our economy; money the banks could loan domestically, maybe even targeted lending.

Agreed that our labor costs, environmental and other regulations still make it cost-prohibtive to actually set up shop here.
 
2012-10-05 02:47:39 PM

actualhuman: readymix: But, I thought Romney said at the debates that he wasn't going to cut taxes for corporations and wealthy people.

Yes, but you see they're /really/ small businesses. We have to protect small businesses!

/You must have missed the part where Obama pointed out that under Romney's definition of "small business" Donald Trump is a small business.


Oh, well yeah, we definitely need to help Donald Trump out.
 
2012-10-05 02:50:47 PM
Paul Ryan: "Let's make this country a tax shelter third world shiathole."
 
2012-10-05 02:56:14 PM
I'm all for providing tax incentives to keep American jobs here.

Lowering the corporate tax rate will not accomplish this.
 
2012-10-05 03:04:05 PM

CPennypacker: I'm all for providing tax incentives to keep American jobs here.

Lowering the corporate tax rate will not accomplish this.


Of course it will.
 
2012-10-05 03:08:19 PM

12349876: And how do the Cayman Islands pay for the ability to be a tax shelter? Massive import duties. Surely Ryan wants those too? Right?


Exactly that. Also, the idea of Tricycleracer and creating as many as 5 IT jobs to house the stuff, well, 5 might be a bit high.

I used to do quite a bit of work in Bermuda hosting facilities. My company had 20 some-odd racks of gear. In the rack next to ours was a "Large Bank", they had a 1/2 cabinet with a firewall and a switch in it. Just enough to land traffic on a Bermudian IP and then tunnel all traffic back to wherever all their actual stuff was. In the half cabinet below them was another bank with another firewall and switch.

I believe import duty was like 37% at the time I was importing tons of stuff. This model can only work in tiny countries blessed with lots of filing cabinets. The idea being that if they can host 100,000 companies in those cabinets, and those companies pay 1% tax, then the needs of the 60,000-odd residents of the country can be fully taken care of. Since those 100,000 companies are (let's say, largely) American, then America gets to pay for the infrastructure needed to run the businesses. Roads, power grids, caring for the needs of all those employees when they retire.

Ad absurdum: If Bermuda had to support the employees of the company I worked at, we would have raised their population by 5% by ourselves and the "Tax Shelter" profit model would start to break down. So it works great if, say, 280MM people leave the US, leaving a skeleton crew here to man the filing cabinets, and all the companies move away and use the US as a tax haven.

Brilliant!
 
2012-10-05 03:12:53 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: American loses jobs because of our relatively high corp tax rate.


Bullshiat.
 
2012-10-05 03:18:45 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: CPennypacker: I'm all for providing tax incentives to keep American jobs here.

Lowering the corporate tax rate will not accomplish this.

Of course it will.


Aw cmon even you can't believe that flavor of bullshiat.
 
Ant
2012-10-05 03:22:44 PM
FTFA: James Henry, a former chief economist at McKinsey & Co., describes offshore tax havens like the "bar scene in Star Wars."

Cool! I've always wanted to live in a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
 
2012-10-05 03:26:36 PM

CPennypacker: Debeo Summa Credo: CPennypacker: I'm all for providing tax incentives to keep American jobs here.

Lowering the corporate tax rate will not accomplish this.

Of course it will.

Aw cmon even you can't believe that flavor of bullshiat.


Sadly DSC can.
 
2012-10-05 03:30:38 PM
The came for the high-dollar tax accountants and I said nothing...
 
2012-10-05 03:37:24 PM
We have courts, roads, stable political systems, property rights, defense and infrastructure that costs money and that makes the US on balance an attractive place to do business. We don't need to race to the bottom, because we are inherently a more attractive place to do business to the point where US and non-US business owners will pay for the privilege of doing business here. Tax havens are for investing, not doing actual business. Nobody transfers their employees to the Cayman Islands they set up PO boxes and entities there. People transfer places of business to countries with a cheap labor force that offsets tax burdesn (e.g., India or Vietnam) or some combination of reduced taxes and skilled labor (e.g., Ireland). Our corporate tax rates are probably a bit too high and the system too complicated but it is an issue of tweaking the rates downward a bit not becoming a tax haven.

Anyone who thinks we should be a tax haven and doesn't recognize the inherent value of this country in order to properly price what it is worth to do business here doesn't have the mental capacity to govern us.
 
Displayed 50 of 80 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report