The Stealth Hippopotamus: You have to remember that the Obama administration is both legendarily inept and masterfully criminal at the same time according to many who oppose it.So just like Bush?
tomWright: The timing is suspicious
Fear_and_Loathing: Yeah that is the lie, if you run out of benefits, you no longer are looking. Kind of an odd jump in logic. My state has the second highest unemployment in the Nation at 10.7 percent statewide. Job fairs routinely bring in 4000 or more people to look in a single day. Many are officially not lo9oking for work. It isn't that they have stopped, the Federal Gov't has just conviently swept them under the carpet. The Gov't has given up on them, so they cease to exist, they have not given up on looking for jobs. The state EDC gave a sweetheart deal to a sports star to move his company and it was tied to creating 400 jobs. After 2 years, he had filled 200 jobs almost all from people he moved into the state from other states. Then he aquired a company in Maryland with 400 employees. This April he went bankrupt, laid off the 200 transients and the 400 in another state. But that is considered job creation. We got a lot of stimulus money, we have some very nice roads now. The money went to the largest businesses in the state. They hired few workers and those they hired were temp jobs. But the companies made a healthy profit. Job creation almost nil. But as I said, some nice back roads are very nice now. The state now wants to have a fullfledged Casino. Job creation, as long as the Indians don't own it. I live very close to the two largest Casinos in the Western Hemisphere. Where did most of the workforce come from? Casino states. Not local people. Casinos are smart, they want people who know the business, have the skills and know the grind. They don't want to train 1000's of workers. They are a business. Shipping in a whole workforce from out of state is not job creation. My own employer got state grants that included hiring goals. They could not make the hiring goals. So they laid off expensive employees so they could hire to meet the goals. Kind of like the big Red Sox trade this year to open up payroll. They hired a lot of people wit ...
foo monkey: What are they saying over at unskewedemploymentreports.com?
thurstonxhowell: I was gonna vote Libertarian, but the Libertarians I know managed to talk me out of it. Now I'm thinking Vermin Supreme. Or maybe Green. Depends how lulzy I'm feeling that day.
downstairs: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: downstairs: I'm saying I'm worth $X and making <$X.Self-assessment is not a scientific method.Which is why I used the variable "X". You can't deny that someone with mad skills in a high-end industry, which has been decimated (temporarily, we hope) by the economy... who is now working at a job well below their skill level... is bad for the economy in general. "underemployment" isn't really that bizarre of a concept, is it?
downstairs: Fear_and_Loathing: It isn't that they have stopped, the Federal Gov't has just conviently swept them under the carpet.Yep. That's why I ignore these numbers completely. Take my situation. I run a small two person business (well one-and-a-half... my partner pretty much left and got a job, but sticks around and helps a bit and does get some consulting cash for that.) I'm making maybe 1/3 of what I made for 10 years. I'm not on any government program, but for all intents and purposes I'm unemployed. Or I should be counted in some stat, as I'm not technically making ends meet. I'm looking for a job in a different industry, but there's no way the government or any third-party polling agency would know this. I pay taxes, so I'm counted as employed. But only because I can make some money from whats left of our business. But I consider that akin to "unemployment benefits" as it amounts to pretty much the same situation... enough money to barely scrape by for the time being. Until you count people like me, I'm not listening to any "employment" numbers.
InspectorZero: But the real reason the government's cooked numbers show a decrease in unemployment today is because of "part time jobs for economic reasons"
InspectorZero: If you all really believe unemployment is at 7.8%, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
unlikely: Odd, the Department of Labor said that's specifically not the case. Which is it? I'm confused.
HST's Dead Carcass: I know one that was cut off from unemployment and has been clinging on to everything he owns. He attributes to the number of people not on unemployment.Here's my town compared to statewide. Unemployment is dropping for the state because people were kicked off unemployment after an internal audit, but Colorado Springs is still rising.Our town is at 9.8%, and at least 50% of that is IT/Tech jobs. Additionally, you can see by the red line for Colorado, exactly when they got the results of the audit, because the line goes from 9.3% to 7.7%... in an effort to make the national average look better. That many jobs weren't found, they just ended Unemployment for thousands of people over a 2 month period.
tony41454: THIS. 7.8% is still not good enough to reelect someone over. Gas prices are also up.
theknuckler_33: HST's Dead Carcass: jst3p: I call bullshiat.Go ahead, HP closed their doors and laid a few hundred people in 2010-2012. That was just there, not including Oracle and Intel.You got a citation for those Oracle layoffs? They certainly let some people go from the companies they have acquired over the years, but that was due to redundancy (e.g. H.R., accounting, etc) rather than the economy. Possibly some non-US layoffs. I'd be interested in reading about that if you have a link./Oracle employee for about 5 years.
NateGrey: Nabb1: NateGrey: Nabb1: Lurking Fear: Huh, because these same methods and numbers work just fine during republican administrations. I wonder what could possibly be different...From what I recall of the politics threads from 2004, those methods and numbers did not work fine at all for the left leaning folks, many of whom rebuked the calculations with these same arguments in this article, but were perfectly okay for Bush supporters. Funny how things change, isn't it?Deep thoughts from a Fark Independent.Deep thoughts are probably a completely foreign concept to anyone who uses that term.Bush hit an all time high unemployment rate your reaction:" Nabb1 [TotalFark] 2003-06-06 05:08:48 PMHopefully, these jobless figures are mere hesitance on the part of businesses. The Dow is back up above 9000, and all the other recent numbers have been cautiously optimistic, like retail sales. "I like the cautious optimism. I am sure when Obama did it you had the same reaction:" Nabb1 [TotalFark] 2010-10-06 10:05:15 AMI bet they feel stimulated, though."Republican humor!
MacWizard: I don't really know where the BLS numbers come from (and don't particularly care). I just know I was never polled about anything, was never on unemployment and, during the time period I was discussing, was never on anyone else's payroll. This is my basis for saying I was never included in any of these numbers.
theknuckler_33: indylaw: tomWright: It could be legitimate, it could be politically shaded. The timing is suspiciousIn other words, it's suspicious because it doesn't favor your narrative.Indeed. A slow, but stead downward trend in the unemployment rate that has been going on for about two years has *gasp* continued. Very suspicious.
impaler: TheRedMonkey: Or is it because of seasonal hires?If only they could apply some adjustment for things that happen seasonally?"Seasonal re-factoring""time of year adjustment"
Big Man On Campus: I don't care how you calculate that 7.8%. It doesn't matter two spits how many people you have employed, what matters is what you have them doing...From the actual report from the BLS:Health care added 44,000 jobs in September. Job gains continued in ambulatoryhealth care services (+30,000) and hospitals (+8,000). Over the past year,employment in health care has risen by 295,000.In September, employment increased by 17,000 in transportation and warehousing.Within the industry, there were job gains in transit and ground passengertransportation (+9,000) and in warehousing and storage (+4,000).Employment in financial activities edged up in September (+13,000), reflectingmodest job growth in credit intermediation (+6,000) and real estate (+7,000).Manufacturing employment edged down in September (-16,000). On net, manufacturingemployment has been unchanged since April. In September, job losses occurredin computer and electronic products (-6,000) and in printing and relatedactivities (-3,000).Employment in other major industries, including mining and logging, construction,wholesale trade, retail trade, information, professional and business services,leisure and hospitality, and government, showed little change over the month.So how are we ever supposed to feel good about the direction our economy is going? We're adding jobs in health care (Service industry) thanks to Obamacare, but losing manufacturing for the billionth time. Hooray! If we continue on this track, our biggest industry will be looking after each other's health instead of adding wealth to the nation by building things that the world wants.Short version: Unemployment numbers mean crap, what is meaningful is what industries are expanding, and which ones are shrinking. The industries that do not bring in wealth are expanding, the industries that do make the country richer are continuing to shrink.
gerrychampoux: I'm sure all this September hiring had nothing to do with retailers hiring temporary employees for Halloween, Thanksgiving, Black Friday and the overall Christmas shopping season.
OgreMagi: BSABSVR: o5iiawah: supporting an automatic weapons ban is more gun friendly than a president who armed mexican drug cartels, enabling them to kill 2 americans and hundreds of mexicans.Guns don't kill people.Mexican drug dealers armed with American government supplied guns kill people. But what does this have to do with the unemployment rate?
skullkrusher: intelligent comment below: o5iiawah: Tainted1: Interesting, this same website has a story on it about the NRA endorsing Mitt Romney. Funny thing is though, they kind of forgot to mention that Mitt Romney has signed gun control legislature before making it odd that the NRA would pick him. I'm pretty sure that was a minor oversight and Hot Air is in no way biased or spinning data in a biased fashion.Hot air indeedsupporting an automatic weapons ban is more gun friendly than a president who armed mexican drug cartels, enabling them to kill 2 americans and hundreds of mexicans.skullkrusher like typing detectedholy crap you're pathetic. Seriously dude, seek help.
Whiskey Pete: lilbjorn: Hint: The very same thing was said under Reagan, Bush, Carter, and Bush.You said Bush twice.
colon_pow: theknuckler_33: colon_pow: theknuckler_33: colon_pow: All2morrowsparTs: colon_pow: so the administration has ways of juicing the numbers. it's to be expected. politics is hardball.So why didn't they present better numbers if they were able to juice the numbers?they didn't want to get greedy. they only need the number to go under 8. next month expect a half point drop. minimum.Makes you wonder why they bothered to make the rate go UP in May and July.do i have to explain everything to you? they were hoping the numbers would fall legitimately. this is their plan b.yeeesh.So, it's just this most recent report that is fake and the fall in unemployment is real up until NOW? Have I got that right?according to my sources, i believe this may in fact be the case.
vegasj: I love it DrewMain page = Jobless rate is down to 7.8% Romney still to be unemployed next month (spiffy)hidden over on the polictics tab = You know how unemployment dipped to 7.8%. There's just one problem with that number. Hint: Don't use fuzzy math and People who give up looking for a job and leave unemployment is not the same as people getting jobs (followup)
indylaw: tomWright: It could be legitimate, it could be politically shaded. The timing is suspiciousIn other words, it's suspicious because it doesn't favor your narrative.
coeyagi: intelligent comment below: The economy is finally starting to show signs of improvement and conservative trolls are OUTRAGED./Boy do they love AmericaIt's inconceivable, since Rush Limbaugh says Obama hates America, that anything under his Muslimpremacy would ever improve for America.
GhostFish: Somebody please explain this to me.According to the right, Obama is an incompetent empty suit and this was demonstrated in the debates.Also according to the right, Obama is a manipulative mastermind that has his insidious tendrils in every government bureau and department.How does this make sense?I've only ever seen this combination of features in Saturday morning cartoon villains like Skeletor and Snidely Whiplash.
tomWright: coeyagi: tomWright: [pjmedia.com image 850x481][www.aei-ideas.org image 801x491]A Pajamas Media infographic? Seems credible, Shillnestro!Just sayin'Some people are wondering why there are two such divergent numbers on employment. The reason is that there are actually two job surveys. One is based on asking establishments how many people are on their payroll, which initially covers roughly a third of all payroll employment. The second is based on asking households how many people in their family are working; the sample covers less than 1% of the population. Normal statistical variation guarantees that the two typically produce different results, though this month's difference was larger than usual. In addition, the two define employment differently. If somebody works two jobs, he will be counted twice by the payroll survey but just once by the household survey.It could be legitimate, it could be politically shaded. The timing is suspicious
coeyagi: theknuckler_33: Noam Chimpsky: I'm surprised the numbers aren't better on the expectation of regime change. Business folk I know have been hiring and ramping up production on the expectation that Obama will be thrown out of office.Surrrre.1. 30% of Hillary voters support Romney2. Silent majority3. I don't remember what #3 was.
aug3: As the year 2011 began on Jan. 1, the oldest members of the Baby Boom generation celebrated their 65th birthday. In fact, on that day, and for every day for the next 19 years, 10,000 baby boomers will reach age 65.
DamnYankees: The only way to ever make sense of these numbers is to use consistent parameters. As long as this is the system we use to judge these numbers, its the system we use. We need to accept that.
theknuckler_33: Noam Chimpsky: I'm surprised the numbers aren't better on the expectation of regime change. Business folk I know have been hiring and ramping up production on the expectation that Obama will be thrown out of office.Surrrre.
Nabb1: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Jackson Herring: Nabb1: Lurking Fear: Huh, because these same methods and numbers work just fine during republican administrations. I wonder what could possibly be different...From what I recall of the politics threads from 2004, those methods and numbers did not work fine at all for the left leaning folks, many of whom rebuked the calculations with these same arguments in this article, but were perfectly okay for Bush supporters. Funny how things change, isn't it?Oh of course, both sides are completely the sameSo vote Republican.You know, as much as I enjoy the Mutt and Jeff routine with the same boring, predictable, canned responses, there are other options besides the two dominant parties. Libertarian, Green, whatever. It may not affect the outcome, but at least you can assert your position in the booth.
odinsposse: Oooh, let's see what economic wizard Hot Air got to break down these numbers.Ed Morrissey is an American conservative blogger, columnist, motivational speaker, and talk show host. He goes by the nickname Captain EdSweet merciful crap. Conservative bloggers really are the awkward kid everyone made fun of in high school aren't they?
lilbjorn: Hint: The very same thing was said under Reagan, Bush, Carter, and Bush.
Noam Chimpsky: I'm surprised the numbers aren't better on the expectation of regime change. Business folk I know have been hiring and ramping up production on the expectation that Obama will be thrown out of office.
whidbey: lilbjorn: Unemployment under Romney is 47%.[3.bp.blogspot.com image 350x250]Well, if people would just humble out and take jobs a few dollars an hour beneath them, everyone would be employed.This is why we need to eliminate the minimum wage. Along with pornography.
bulldg4life: Hey, I know, let's start comparing U3 and U6 and get really mad that nobody is reporting the REAL numbers
Dusk-You-n-Me: [pbs.twimg.com image 580x415][i.imgur.com image 380x179]
mrshowrules: MeinRS6: These numbers will have the ever-livin'-shiat revised out of them in Nov.The lies from the Obama admin pile up so high so fast, you need a helicopter to stay above it.Did someone say helicopter?[doomsdayind.files.wordpress.com image 300x268]Do you think Fartbongo is going to tell them to drop the U3 again before the last jobs report before the election?
MeinRS6: These numbers will have the ever-livin'-shiat revised out of them in Nov.The lies from the Obama admin pile up so high so fast, you need a helicopter to stay above it.
Corvus: MeinRS6: These numbers will have the ever-livin'-shiat revised out of them in Nov.The lies from the Obama admin pile up so high so fast, you need a helicopter to stay above it.So do you have any proof these numbers were rigged? Or are these completely unsupported allegations just because it doesn't fit in with your world view?
impaler: The jobs figures are released on planned schedules. Everyone knew before the debate that this was going to be released today.
MeinRS6: And check out that re-benchmarking - Link That's some good timing.
impaler: MeinRS6: The lies from the Obama admin pile up so high so fast, you need a helicopter to stay above it.The Obama administration doesn't control the BLS, you moron.
impaler: Now if the BLS was into manipulating data to support Obama, why didn't they lower the U3 figure for the 2010 election?
Jackson Herring: Nabb1: Lurking Fear: Huh, because these same methods and numbers work just fine during republican administrations. I wonder what could possibly be different...From what I recall of the politics threads from 2004, those methods and numbers did not work fine at all for the left leaning folks, many of whom rebuked the calculations with these same arguments in this article, but were perfectly okay for Bush supporters. Funny how things change, isn't it?Oh of course, both sides are completely the same
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