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(New York Magazine)   Jim Lehrer defends his debate performance, says he's only sorry Obama didn't show up   (nymag.com) divider line 58
    More: Interesting, Jim Lehrer, Frank Rich  
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1297 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Oct 2012 at 11:21 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-05 08:59:53 AM  
So, he admits that the few things he was responsible for:
- selection of an appropriate number of topics
- selection of the topics that are relevant to Americans
- time management

he completely failed at.

He did manage to keep the debaters from kicking each other in the nutbag. So, there is that.
 
2012-10-05 09:10:29 AM  
Blaming the moderator in a debate is like blaming the refs in football, only more childish.

Lehrer is a giant, and hardly deserves the drubbing he is getting. Face it: Obama miscalculated, and he blew it. You'll get over it.
 
2012-10-05 09:21:21 AM  
Romney steamrolled Lehrer so hard I expected him to hold Lehrer down and cut his hair off.
 
2012-10-05 09:29:32 AM  

gilgigamesh: Blaming the moderator in a debate is like blaming the refs in football


You might want to rethink that analogy.
 
2012-10-05 09:31:47 AM  
Countdown to SNL skit of this debate(with Killam as Lehrer) begins....now.
 
2012-10-05 09:38:52 AM  

hinten: So, he admits that the few things he was responsible for:
- selection of an appropriate number of topics
- selection of the topics that are relevant to Americans
- time management

he completely failed at.


Right. Even if you want to grant him the argument that it's not his job to fact-check the candidates or to push them to actually answer his questions, he was farking terrible.
 
2012-10-05 10:12:33 AM  

gilgigamesh: Blaming the moderator in a debate is like blaming the refs in football, only more childish.

Lehrer is a giant, and hardly deserves the drubbing he is getting. Face it: Obama miscalculated, and he blew it. You'll get over it.


Those two ideas aren't mutually exclusive. You can think both blew it.
 
2012-10-05 10:21:49 AM  
Thats not the Jim Lehrer I remember.

Bring back Gwen Ifill

Bring back the league of women voters presidential debates. Dump the sham.
 
2012-10-05 10:47:25 AM  
FishyFred
Right. Even if you want to grant him the argument that it's not his job to fact-check the candidates or to push them to actually answer his questions, he was farking terrible.


His "What's the difference between your take on X and the other guy's take on X" were a big mistake in my opinion.
He basically invited a lot of empty "My opponent says X / No I didn't / Yes you did / No I didn't" which wasted a lot of time and also enabled a lot of non-answers.
You don't ask what they think is the difference between them on X, you ask them about what they're going to do or think about X and let the viewer work out the difference.
Instead, he gave an open invitation to being bullshiatted.
 
2012-10-05 11:22:40 AM  
good for him, the blaming of the moderator comes of as whiny and weak, people should stop doing that.
 
2012-10-05 11:24:12 AM  
It was better than "Boxers or Briefs" or "What's your favorite song"
 
2012-10-05 11:24:42 AM  
he let them have a debate.
good on him.
 
2012-10-05 11:25:00 AM  

gilgigamesh: Blaming the moderator in a debate is like blaming the refs in football, only more childish.


static1.businessinsider.com
 
2012-10-05 11:25:45 AM  

Headso: good for him, the blaming of the moderator comes of as whiny and weak, people should stop doing that.


Remember this should Headso ever go into one of those "THE LAMESTREAM DRIVE-BY MEDIA'S IN THE TANK FOR THIM LIBRULZ!!!" whines.
 
2012-10-05 11:27:26 AM  

Headso: good for him, the blaming of the moderator comes of as whiny and weak, people should stop doing that.


The moderator is supposed to moderate, not let the loudest and most insistent speaker go on. Lehrer lost control of it as soon as Romney decided to go on for minutes past his time. Then again and again, interrupting both Obama and the moderator and demanding the last word. Lehrer should have swiftly quashed that shiat, which is entirely bad form in debates.
 
2012-10-05 11:31:33 AM  
Anyone else see that Mitt Romney Cheat Sheet video in the comments?

Link
 
2012-10-05 11:36:04 AM  
Should have stayed semi-retired.

Tom Lehrer could have done a better job asking questions in song.
 
2012-10-05 11:36:11 AM  

gilgigamesh: Blaming the moderator in a debate is like blaming the refs in football, only more childish.


Wait, so Lehrer could have thrown a yellow flag at Romney and given him a 15 yard penalty for objectionable conduct?

Really, what could the moderator do in a debate other than "No, you may not rebuttal. Shut the fark up." And moderator's aren't known for doing that unless one of the debaters is belligerent to him.
 
2012-10-05 11:38:55 AM  

NateGrey: Anyone else see that Mitt Romney Cheat Sheet video in the comments?

Link


I saw that. It seems kind of blatant.
 
2012-10-05 11:39:00 AM  
I blame the altitude.
 
2012-10-05 11:40:37 AM  

NateGrey: Anyone else see that Mitt Romney Cheat Sheet video in the comments?

Link


Beit taxes or debates, Mitt Romney knows rules are strictly for the little people.
 
2012-10-05 11:43:51 AM  

gilgigamesh: Blaming the moderator in a debate is like blaming the refs in football, only more childish.

Lehrer is a giant, and hardly deserves the drubbing he is getting. Face it: Obama miscalculated, and he blew it. You'll get over it.


Yeah, kinda like how Green Bay beat Seattle on Monday Night Football by picking off a hail mary pass in the end zone.
 
2012-10-05 11:44:29 AM  

Nurglitch: NateGrey: Anyone else see that Mitt Romney Cheat Sheet video in the comments?

Link

I saw that. It seems kind of blatant.


A blatant handkerchief.

/So he went from being an unfactual liar to someone who smuggled in facts covertly and pummeled Obama with them
//It's a conspiracy!
 
2012-10-05 11:44:54 AM  

Bloody William: Headso: good for him, the blaming of the moderator comes of as whiny and weak, people should stop doing that.

The moderator is supposed to moderate, not let the loudest and most insistent speaker go on. Lehrer lost control of it as soon as Romney decided to go on for minutes past his time. Then again and again, interrupting both Obama and the moderator and demanding the last word. Lehrer should have swiftly quashed that shiat, which is entirely bad form in debates.


Complaining about it after the fact comes off whiny regardless and these guys aren't debating for sport so fair play isn't expected, it's an extension of the anything goes campaigning that is going on and in stereotypical fashion the republican ran over the democrat.
 
2012-10-05 11:46:32 AM  
Romney's Quote: "I got the chance to ask the president questions that people across the country have wanted to ask him, such as why is it that he pushed Obamacare at a time when we had 23 million people out of work? I asked him those questions and you heard his answers."
What a farking joke. We didn't hear any of Romney's answers to Obama's questions. What are those tax loopholes Romney is going to close for the rich again??
 
2012-10-05 11:48:00 AM  

colon_pow: he let them have a debate.
good on him.


They're upset he didn't run interference for Obama like any good member of the media should.
 
2012-10-05 11:48:49 AM  

diggumsmax: What a farking joke. We didn't hear any of Romney's answers to Obama's questions. What are those tax loopholes Romney is going to close for the rich again??


Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of him over all these years.
 
2012-10-05 11:50:18 AM  
Based on previous debates, Jim Lehrer was pretty farking par for the course. Of course, par is "abso-farking-lutely terrible" so there's that.

I still don't get it to this day. The candidates come in with their enormous laundry list of agreed upon rules. The moderator is supposed to enforce those rules. So when Romney said "He went first, so I get the last word," Jim should have interrupted and informed him of the rules, reminded him everyone agreed upon the rules and no, he would not get to have the last word, he gets to go first on the next question. And I get it, you agree on 2 minutes, you don't want to cut their mic after 120 seconds. But at 120 seconds you remind them "your time is up" but let them go on for another 5-10 seconds. Then you interrupt them and say "I'm sorry we have to move on." When the candidate says "let me finish" you remind them again of the rules, how everyone agreed to the rules, how there's a pretty colorful light behind the moderator to give them fair advance of their time running down so they have to wrap up and no, you do not get to finish anymore.

These are all small annoyances though. The worst, the complete moderation fail was when Jim Lehrer asked a question regarding education.

MR. LEHRER: How do you see the federal government's responsibility to -- as I say, to improve the quality of public education in this country?

Romney: "...You put $90 billion into -- into green jobs...the role of government -- is not to become the economic player picking winners and losers...telling people what kind of health treatment they can receive, taking over the health care system...The right answer for government is to say, how do we make the private sector become more efficient and more effective?"


Holy farking shiat Jim you're absolutely terrible.
 
2012-10-05 11:50:55 AM  

soy_bomb: Nurglitch: NateGrey: Anyone else see that Mitt Romney Cheat Sheet video in the comments?

Link

I saw that. It seems kind of blatant.

A blatant handkerchief.

/So he went from being an unfactual liar to someone who smuggled in facts covertly and pummeled Obama with them
//It's a conspiracy!


Given how much Romney looked down during the debate, I doubt that he was using notes. But a hankerchief still violates the rules:

"No props, notes, charts, diagrams, or other writings or other tangible things may be brought into the debate by any candidate."
 
2012-10-05 11:50:57 AM  

CujoQuarrel: They're upset he didn't run interference for Obama like any good member of the media should.


But, if the mainstream media's in the tank for Obama, and Lehrer didn't go by the game plan you've imagined...? Are you implying Lehrer's Fox News debut next week, or is there a hole or 50 in your great lie about the media liberal conspiracy theory? Wasn't somebody talking about "whining about the refs" earlier?
 
2012-10-05 11:51:07 AM  

Nurglitch: NateGrey: Anyone else see that Mitt Romney Cheat Sheet video in the comments?

Link

I saw that. It seems kind of blatant.


It's a handkerchief. You've got to be farking kidding me with this shiat.
 
2012-10-05 11:52:01 AM  
Lehrer threw Obama several lifelines and Obama got more time to speak. Debates are supposed to be about the debaters speaking, not the moderator.
 
2012-10-05 11:52:05 AM  
Hey, cut Lehrer some slack. It's not easy being the world's most famous Hummel figurine impersonator.
 
2012-10-05 11:53:21 AM  

Nurglitch: "No props, notes, charts, diagrams, or other writings or other tangible things may be brought into the debate by any candidate."


I'm pretty sure Obama smuggled in some shoes. Seriously, this has to be the most pathetic attempt at Romney thus far. Lots of reasons to criticize him and you're gonna go with "he smuggled in a handkerchief?" Fark me you're stupid.
 
2012-10-05 11:55:19 AM  

lennavan: Nurglitch: "No props, notes, charts, diagrams, or other writings or other tangible things may be brought into the debate by any candidate."

I'm pretty sure Obama smuggled in some shoes. Seriously, this has to be the most pathetic attempt at Romney thus far. Lots of reasons to criticize him and you're gonna go with "he smuggled in a handkerchief?" Fark me you're stupid.


I'm not criticizing him. As I pointed out, even if it was a magical cheat-sheet containing a spell for winning the debate, he didn't appear to use it. No harm, no foul, right?
 
2012-10-05 12:11:16 PM  

EyeballKid: CujoQuarrel: They're upset he didn't run interference for Obama like any good member of the media should.

But, if the mainstream media's in the tank for Obama, and Lehrer didn't go by the game plan you've imagined...? Are you implying Lehrer's Fox News debut next week, or is there a hole or 50 in your great lie about the media liberal conspiracy theory? Wasn't somebody talking about "whining about the refs" earlier?


I thought he did a good job. Toss out the questions and let the candidates go at it.
 
2012-10-05 12:18:09 PM  

hinten: So, he admits that the few things he was responsible for:
- selection of an appropriate number of topics
- selection of the topics that are relevant to Americans
- time management

he completely failed at.


He did manage to keep the debaters from kicking each other Obama in the nutbag. So, there is that.


FTFY

There is no way in hell Obama would have kicked back. He's above that or it was the altitude, or something...
 
2012-10-05 12:36:19 PM  
My favorite part of Lehrer's performance was the 4 minutes or so he took explaining that there was only 3 minutes left in the debate. He had to have said "only 3 minutes left" at least six times.
 
2012-10-05 12:45:12 PM  

diggumsmax: Romney's Quote: "I got the chance to ask the president questions that people across the country have wanted to ask him, such as why is it that he pushed Obamacare at a time when we had 23 million people out of work? I asked him those questions and you heard his answers."
What a farking joke. We didn't hear any of Romney's answers to Obama's questions. What are those tax loopholes Romney is going to close for the rich again??


this a few dozen time. obamacare and the employment numbers are apples and oranges unless you are romney/the republicans and can't walk and chew gum at the same time. the (pitiful) stimulus had been passed before healthcare reform was even worked on.
 
2012-10-05 01:57:06 PM  
lennavan: Seriously, this has to be the most pathetic attempt at Romney thus far. Lots of reasons to criticize him and you're gonna go with "he smuggled in a handkerchief?" Fark me you're stupid.

Pretending for a moment that the object Romney slyly placed on the podium was a handkerchief and not notes, does a handkerchief fall under the heading of a "tangible thing," as in the phrase "No props, notes, charts, diagrams, or other writings or other tangible things may be brought into the debate by any candidate"?

Don't get me wrong, I'm horribly disappointed in Obama's performance, and that has nothing to do with anything Romney said or did. But why are you flailing your hands around and trying to act like this is some liberal conspiracy theory when we've all seen the proof? Why are you so desperate to give Romney a pass on violating one of the most basic rules they both agreed to?
 
MFL
2012-10-05 02:04:44 PM  
LargeCanine
Lehrer threw Obama several lifelines and Obama got more time to speak. Debates are supposed to be about the debaters speaking, not the moderator.

They are just warning the moderators of the next debates to "put the kid gloves back on or else"

It's not so much that Obama is a bad debator, it's just that standing side by side with Mitt Romney he is obviously the beta male.
 
2012-10-05 02:23:15 PM  

MFL: It's not so much that Obama is a bad debator, it's just that standing side by side with Mitt Romney he is obviously the beta male.


It's not so much that. It's just that Romney was born into a life of privilege and position, so he has a smug, smearing sense of superiority and fascist-like insolence about him. He always conveys an impression of opulent elitism that unfortunately has him out-of-touch with the way the average American lives, which gives him the perfect position to tell everybody else how to live (ie: lesser than him), and it is this position of dominance and authoritarianism that you are interpreting as strength and conviction, ie: an alpha male.

Obama, meanwhile, grew up as a single, mixed-race child who moved constantly throughout his youth and had to work hard for everything he's earned, so he's far more appreciative of his success and he doesn't like to express it too wildly or use it as a point of pride. This virtue -- humility -- is often interpreted as a position of weakness unfit for command by people like yourself who wish their leaders to be dictatorial ubermensches, which is why you see him as an easy lesser to Romney's domineering, feudal classist archetype.
 
2012-10-05 02:29:42 PM  

gilgigamesh: Blaming the moderator in a debate is like blaming the refs in football, only more childish.

Lehrer is a giant, and hardly deserves the drubbing he is getting. Face it: Obama miscalculated, and he blew it. You'll get over it.


Obama did blow it, and nobody's blaming Lehrer for that. But Lehrer was a terrible moderator too. Was there a single topic that didn't run long? Was there a single topic that Romney didn't get the last word on?
 
2012-10-05 02:35:22 PM  

Bloody William: Headso: good for him, the blaming of the moderator comes of as whiny and weak, people should stop doing that.

The moderator is supposed to moderate, not let the loudest and most insistent speaker go on. Lehrer lost control of it as soon as Romney decided to go on for minutes past his time. Then again and again, interrupting both Obama and the moderator and demanding the last word. Lehrer should have swiftly quashed that shiat, which is entirely bad form in debates.


Obama spoke more than Romney... 53 to 47%.
 
2012-10-05 02:51:22 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: But why are you flailing your hands around and trying to act like this is some liberal conspiracy theory when we've all seen the proof?


Because there is no proof and there's actual video of Romney wiping himself with his so-called cheat sheet. This is equivalent to birtherism. There's actual irrefutable evidence proving you wrong and yet you refuse to believe. I can't help you, I'm sorry.

Barricaded Gunman: Why are you so desperate to give Romney a pass on violating one of the most basic rules they both agreed to?


Why am I giving Romney a pass for bringing a handkerchief when he agreed to "No props, notes, charts, diagrams, or other writings or other tangible things may be brought into the debate by any candidate?"

You need an actual answer to that? You're actually legitimately concerned that he broke the rules by bringing in a handkerchief? You think that gained him an unfair advantage or something? Or are you just pouting?
 
2012-10-05 03:01:10 PM  

lennavan: Barricaded Gunman: Why are you so desperate to give Romney a pass on violating one of the most basic rules they both agreed to?

Why am I giving Romney a pass for bringing a handkerchief when he agreed to "No props, notes, charts, diagrams, or other writings or other tangible things may be brought into the debate by any candidate?"

You need an actual answer to that? You're actually legitimately concerned that he broke the rules by bringing in a handkerchief? You think that gained him an unfair advantage or something? Or are you just pouting?


Obama was forced to let his snot crust around his mouth.
 
2012-10-05 03:12:07 PM  

HeartBurnKid: gilgigamesh: Blaming the moderator in a debate is like blaming the refs in football, only more childish.

Lehrer is a giant, and hardly deserves the drubbing he is getting. Face it: Obama miscalculated, and he blew it. You'll get over it.

Obama did blow it, and nobody's blaming Lehrer for that. But Lehrer was a terrible moderator too. Was there a single topic that didn't run long? Was there a single topic that Romney didn't get the last word on?


How exactly, did Obama "blow it?"

It's almost as if you expected Obama to squash Romney like a bug.

Seriously, this line of criticism is only self-deprecating.
 
2012-10-05 03:15:11 PM  

sprawl15: lennavan: Barricaded Gunman: Why are you so desperate to give Romney a pass on violating one of the most basic rules they both agreed to?

Why am I giving Romney a pass for bringing a handkerchief when he agreed to "No props, notes, charts, diagrams, or other writings or other tangible things may be brought into the debate by any candidate?"

You need an actual answer to that? You're actually legitimately concerned that he broke the rules by bringing in a handkerchief? You think that gained him an unfair advantage or something? Or are you just pouting?

Obama was forced to let his snot crust around his mouth.


i do believe he lost a couple of points because of that.
 
2012-10-05 03:20:37 PM  

whidbey: HeartBurnKid: gilgigamesh: Blaming the moderator in a debate is like blaming the refs in football, only more childish.

Lehrer is a giant, and hardly deserves the drubbing he is getting. Face it: Obama miscalculated, and he blew it. You'll get over it.

Obama did blow it, and nobody's blaming Lehrer for that. But Lehrer was a terrible moderator too. Was there a single topic that didn't run long? Was there a single topic that Romney didn't get the last word on?

How exactly, did Obama "blow it?"

It's almost as if you expected Obama to squash Romney like a bug.

Seriously, this line of criticism is only self-deprecating.


Obama blew it, ironically enough, the same way Lehrer did; he let Romney walk all over him, and failed to challenge him on anything, whether it was a violation of the debate rules or a blatant lie. He also lacked the bold passion we all know he has, and that we've seen from him time and time again. He looked tired, he sounded unconvincing, and he failed to effectively counter Romney's attacks against him (bullshiat though they may be).

Look, anyway you slice it, the debate was a victory for Romney. I feel it'll be a Pyrrhic victory, since he had to lie his ass off, contradict every single thing he's campaigned on thus far, and make himself look like a loud, obnoxious prick to pull it off, and I really don't think it'll move the polls much, but it was a victory nonetheless.
 
2012-10-05 04:02:37 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Look, anyway you slice it, the debate was a victory for Romney.


And that doesn't bother me, really. So the Republicans know how to draw their wagons into a circle at the debates. Not a big surprise.

I'm sure this has already been hashed out in the take-a-drink debates thread, but Obama more than held his own. Sure he looked a bit tired, but I'm kind of annoyed that the obvious hasn't been touted, that Obama called Romney out on his lack of a specific plan to lead this country.

Maybe I didn't get the same impression as everyone because I listened to the debate on radio, but Obama's strengths were there, and yeah, Romney came off like a cocky prick.

THAT'S what liberals should be saying. But no, instead it's "Obama blew it" like we're all secretly on the Fox News payroll or something.
 
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