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(NBC News)   GOP: We must do something to stop abortion. Science: How about some free birth control?   (vitals.nbcnews.com) divider line 279
    More: Obvious, GOP, dog foods, Guttmacher Institute, St. Louis area, First Things, birth control, Affordable Care Act, NBC News  
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2560 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Oct 2012 at 5:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-05 07:20:58 AM
Ironic how the ones whose births need controlling and whose fetuses need aborting are the ones most against it.

/Natural selection, how werk it.
 
2012-10-05 07:21:15 AM

randomjsa: In other words not free at all. The fact that people think they are getting a free education is also a small part of the reason why education in this country is such crap. People who think things are free don't appreciate them nearly as much. People that understand the costs of things appreciate them even if they are not paying for them themselves.


So, now you're against free public education because kids, being kids, cannot understand its value? I know you loves you some trollin', but this is just dumb.

randomjsa: Additionally comparing education, which is a necessary thing, with birth control which is associated with choice in behavior is stupid.


On the contrary, society is picking up the tab for a small cost now which prevents a greater cost later, and results in a higher standard of living for all concerned. I think it's a good analogy.
 
2012-10-05 07:21:56 AM
These anti-contraceptive people seem to absolutely view women as nothing more than baby factories and the property of their fathers, and later their husbands. I was hanging out at Fundies Say the Darndest Things and actually saw some... thing (I refuse to call it a "man") claim it was impossible for a man to rape his wife because "her body belongs to him". She's property. She's a carrier for his strange obsession with his own DNA regardless of their ability to properly care for or raise any resultant child(ren). Blessed Gods and Goddesses forbid we should start viewing and valuing our fellow humans based on their deeds rather than what kind of genitalia they're packing in their underpants. Then we'd turn into Scandinavia and then, you know, soshulizms!!!

If these same types are willing to take out Big Bird to save money, you'd think they'd be OK with saving even more money by providing contraceptives to women. The benefits and savings definitely outweigh anyone's butthurt "it's against my religion" BS. A lot of things go on in this country that my taxes support that are against my religion, but I don't throw a hissy over it or try to force my own faith on others, especially those that do not even belong to it. I don't care if those from my base faith took over the US tomorrow, you'd still not see us do that sort of thing. It would be dishonorable behavior and that doesn't go over too well with many of us. The fundie Christians could learn a lot from acting more like Pagans and Heathens instead of just adopting some of our fun stuff and integrating it into their stuff.

/yeah, I'm female so my opinion does not matter to these douchebags
//sammiches on the way, just for them
/// turkey, avocado and bacon with chipotle-arsenic aioli on a toasted, homemade croissant
 
2012-10-05 07:22:05 AM

keylock71: Why do we have to stop abortions?

It's a legal procedure and it's not like there's a lack of humans on the earth.

Hell, we should be encouraging it.

You know, that or educating the populace and handing out birth control like it was Halloween candy.


Three of my professors are very conservative Catholics, and I have argued with all of them regarding overpopulation. None of them thinks that overpopulation is a problem. In fact, they have argued that birth control has basically upset the natural order. They have gone so far as to suggest that if the West doesn't keep breeding rates up, the Muslims will overtake us.
 
2012-10-05 07:22:05 AM
starting teach sex ed / use of contraception in 6th grade and provide same to boys and girls. have them repeat that course every year until they graduate HS. and keep all sorts of contraception available to people at no charge to them.

any retard can father a child. and they do.

lots of mothers and fathers. not many parents.

bumper sticker / t-shirt slogans spoken here.
 
2012-10-05 07:22:23 AM

keylock71: Why do we have to stop abortions?

It's a legal procedure and it's not like there's a lack of humans on the earth.

Hell, we should be encouraging it.

You know, that or educating the populace and handing out birth control like it was Halloween candy.


I am pretty sure most people who support abortion rights think that needing less of them would be a good thing. They're never pleasant. Much like I support your right to get a cast put on you arm, but it really would be better if you didn't break it in the first place.
 
2012-10-05 07:24:11 AM

jayhawk88: Aside from the minimal amount you would pay in taxes to support this, THERE IS NO DOWN SIDE! None! Zero! Society would only benefit.


Not to mention a reduction in crime due to fewer children being born to low income families. Since randomjsa is not only unwilling but also utterly incapable of raising other people's children, why would he not want the damn kids that broke into his house and stole his crap to have never been born?
 
2012-10-05 07:27:01 AM

James F. Campbell: Three of my professors are very conservative Catholics, and I have argued with all of them regarding overpopulation. None of them thinks that overpopulation is a problem. In fact, they have argued that birth control has basically upset the natural order. They have gone so far as to suggest that if the West doesn't keep breeding rates up, the Muslims will overtake us.


So... even if there is enough arable land to give them living area, how does he propose feeding another few billion people?
 
2012-10-05 07:27:27 AM

jayhawk88: Aside from the minimal amount you would pay in taxes to support this, THERE IS NO DOWN SIDE! None! Zero! Society would only benefit.


Sure there is. The downside is that people like Randomjsa wouldn't get the chance to watch people suffer. That's all he cares about, that other people are hurt so it can prove he's better than them. Why fix society when you can just blame someone else?
 
2012-10-05 07:28:57 AM

ox45tallboy: James F. Campbell: Three of my professors are very conservative Catholics, and I have argued with all of them regarding overpopulation. None of them thinks that overpopulation is a problem. In fact, they have argued that birth control has basically upset the natural order. They have gone so far as to suggest that if the West doesn't keep breeding rates up, the Muslims will overtake us.

So... even if there is enough arable land to give them living area, how does he propose feeding another few billion people?


I don't really want to have this argument, but there is still plenty of room for both. Of course, it would take some lifestyle adjustments.
 
2012-10-05 07:28:58 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: If these dogmatic fools weren't so short-sighted, they'd have realized decades ago that informed birth control actions are the single greatest way to reduce unwanted pregnancies, abortions, and in some cases, the rate of children born to parents who cannot adequately care for them.


It's almost as though they're more interested in controlling women than they are in preventing abortions.
 
2012-10-05 07:29:42 AM
The idea that free birth control lowers the abortion rate is hardly revolutionary, and I agree with all the conclusions of the study except one. In a study focusing largely on IUD use, they put forth the idea that ectopic pregnancy, especially, is a cost that can be avoided with contraception use. Somebody correct me if I'm wildly mistaken, but I'm pretty sure ectopic pregnancy is one thing _not_ prevented by a regular IUD. The IUD is placed in the uterus to prevent implantation of the fertilized egg in the uterine wall, rather than preventing release of an egg like hormonal birth control, so it's still possible for a fertilized egg to find it's way into the Fallopian tube. So even a woman with an IUD could have an ectopic pregnancy. (This is supposing a regular copper IUD like the kind supplied to low-income women in my community if you can qualify for the grant at the health department. Might be different with the hormonal IUDs?)
 
2012-10-05 07:31:28 AM

randomjsa: bunch of cherry-picked answers



The most important thing you didn't address here is the cost issue that practically everyone brought up. Why is that?
 
2012-10-05 07:32:31 AM
Republicans refuse to engage in rationally self-interested long-term societal thinking in order to punish individuals whose thinking is short-sighted and irrational. Makes sense. An ounce (or however much your preferred method weighs) of prevention and all. Wonder if we could somehow apply such thinking to healthcare as well...
 
2012-10-05 07:33:00 AM

James F. Campbell: keylock71: Why do we have to stop abortions?

It's a legal procedure and it's not like there's a lack of humans on the earth.

Hell, we should be encouraging it.

You know, that or educating the populace and handing out birth control like it was Halloween candy.

Three of my professors are very conservative Catholics, and I have argued with all of them regarding overpopulation. None of them thinks that overpopulation is a problem. In fact, they have argued that birth control has basically upset the natural order. They have gone so far as to suggest that if the West doesn't keep breeding rates up, the Muslims will overtake us.


I love that argument... We've got to out breed them! It's Dark Age thinking, which I guess isn't surprising for the Catholic Church.

Seriously, though, a couple of my childhood friends became priests (That'll happen in a neighborhood where everybody is either Irish Catholic or Portuguese Catholic), and they're fairly liberal-minded when it comes to issue like this. I find priests in urban areas tend to be a bit more realistic than their rural counterparts when it comes to these issues. One of them worked in Africa for a while and he's told me he finds the church's stance on birth control ridiculous. He also points out education and birth control are probably the most effective ways to reduce abortions. Now if a Priest can figure that out, why can't our politicians?



EvilEgg
:
I am pretty sure most people who support abortion rights think that needing less of them would be a good thing. They're never pleasant. Much like I support your right to get a cast put on you arm, but it really would be better if you didn't break it in the first place.


Of course... That was mostly tongue in cheek.
 
2012-10-05 07:34:17 AM
Ignorant question from someone who has never been through it:

How hard is it to adopt in this country?

Trying to determine if tying BC spending to Adoption spending could be a useful compromise.
 
2012-10-05 07:35:18 AM
Christians are farking nuts. Bring on the lions I say. That's some population control I can get behind.
 
2012-10-05 07:37:56 AM
Another option: Publicize the "Safe Haven" laws in every state.

While the details vary from state to state, safe haven laws generally allow you to anonymously leave your newborn child at a hospital, occupied doctors office, police station, or fire station with fear of prosecution for child abandonment. You will not be asked for identification, you will not be prosecuted, and you will be giving your child a life that you can't. Anyone who adopts has been through at least one, if not more, rigorous series of criminal, background, financial, and home checks that assure, to the extent humanly possible, that they will be appropriate parents.

As a person who adopted a safe haven baby (who is now a precocious 8 year old), It's one of my big missions in life to advocate for it. Here is my spiel:

Ladies, if you are pregnant and scared, and for whatever reason abortion is not for you, consider leaving your newborn at a hospital or other designated place anonymously under your state's "Safe Haven law". Not only will you be saving the life of your child and avoiding prosecution, but you just might end up making a childless couple the happiest people in the World.
 
2012-10-05 07:38:23 AM

ox45tallboy: Or at least in the US Territory known as the Marianas Islands.


or in a for profit prison working for Unicor
 
2012-10-05 07:39:32 AM

BarrRepublican: Ignorant question from someone who has never been through it:

How hard is it to adopt in this country?

Trying to determine if tying BC spending to Adoption spending could be a useful compromise.


As someone who as been through it. It is pretty difficult. You have to submit to a very extensive background check, counciller visits.
 
2012-10-05 07:40:29 AM

Hobodeluxe: or in a for profit prison working for Unicor


hmmm... poor people are disproportionately convicted of crimes... I think we've come full circle here.
 
2012-10-05 07:42:29 AM

randomjsa: How bout...

You pay for your own birth control if you simply can't control yourself by not having sex if you don't want children.


Ya mean like rape?
 
2012-10-05 07:44:13 AM

EvilEgg: BarrRepublican: Ignorant question from someone who has never been through it:

How hard is it to adopt in this country?

Trying to determine if tying BC spending to Adoption spending could be a useful compromise.

As someone who as been through it. It is pretty difficult. You have to submit to a very extensive background check, counciller visits.


phark, I hit add comment too soon.

Counselor. Pay a large fee up front. Then if you are trying to adopt a new born you are put in touch with a you woman who is generally speaking pretty poor. So you pay her medical bills and try to help her buy healthy food, because, of course you want the child to be healthy. At any time up to two years after the child is born, she or any member of her immediate family can say never mind. Most time they do. So you are out like $40K
 
2012-10-05 07:44:26 AM
Phony christian morality does nothing but hold us back.
 
2012-10-05 07:46:05 AM

keylock71: Why do we have to stop abortions?


It's a crappy form of birth control. It's inefficient and slow. People shouldn't be getting pregnant if they don't want to.
 
2012-10-05 07:48:11 AM

moothemagiccow: keylock71: Why do we have to stop abortions?

It's a crappy form of birth control. It's inefficient and slow. People shouldn't be getting pregnant if they don't want to.


See response to EvilEgg...
 
2012-10-05 07:54:31 AM

keylock71: moothemagiccow: keylock71: Why do we have to stop abortions?

It's a crappy form of birth control. It's inefficient and slow. People shouldn't be getting pregnant if they don't want to.

See response to EvilEgg...


see urbandictionary: entry douchebag
 
2012-10-05 07:58:55 AM

elementalogic: Stop abortion? There are over 7 billion of us around already, I don't think we really need to shore up the numbers anymore.


It's a shame that the people who are the poorest on the planet are most certainly going to be difficult to persuade that they need to stop burdening the planet with children it can't support.
 
2012-10-05 08:01:47 AM

Aar1012: If Mary had taken birth control then there would be no baby Jesus!


But is God's ghost so powerful he can make a contraceptive so effective even his super-god-sperm couldn't penetrate it?

That's how it worked right? I think that was in the Gospel of John, oh that non-synoptic dirty dirty John...
 
2012-10-05 08:02:14 AM
Ah yes, the GOP

Doesn't want to pay $5 for birth control, doesn't want to pay a few hundred dollars for abortions, so we pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to house them in prisons when they grow up unwanted and turn to a life of crime.

You pay for it somewhere. Pick where. And don't be stupid about it for god's sake.
 
2012-10-05 08:02:51 AM

randomjsa: How bout...

You pay for your own birth control if you simply can't control yourself by not having sex if you don't want children.


It sounds like you're not serious about reducing the number of abortions.

/i know, you're just threadshiatting
 
2012-10-05 08:04:15 AM

moothemagiccow: keylock71: moothemagiccow: keylock71: Why do we have to stop abortions?

It's a crappy form of birth control. It's inefficient and slow. People shouldn't be getting pregnant if they don't want to.

See response to EvilEgg...

see urbandictionary: entry douchebag


Huh? Ok, my friend. You have a nice day.
 
2012-10-05 08:04:37 AM
What comes free to you the rest of us pay for. Piss off.
 
2012-10-05 08:04:46 AM
Solution: offshore abortion boat.

The solution to every problem is a boat.
 
2012-10-05 08:04:55 AM

ox45tallboy: James F. Campbell: Three of my professors are very conservative Catholics, and I have argued with all of them regarding overpopulation. None of them thinks that overpopulation is a problem. In fact, they have argued that birth control has basically upset the natural order. They have gone so far as to suggest that if the West doesn't keep breeding rates up, the Muslims will overtake us.

So... even if there is enough arable land to give them living area, how does he propose feeding another few billion people?


Soylent Green
 
2012-10-05 08:06:44 AM

EvilEgg: ox45tallboy: James F. Campbell: Three of my professors are very conservative Catholics, and I have argued with all of them regarding overpopulation. None of them thinks that overpopulation is a problem. In fact, they have argued that birth control has basically upset the natural order. They have gone so far as to suggest that if the West doesn't keep breeding rates up, the Muslims will overtake us.

So... even if there is enough arable land to give them living area, how does he propose feeding another few billion people?

I don't really want to have this argument, but there is still plenty of room for both. Of course, it would take some lifestyle adjustments.


You can make the "plenty of room" argument up until you can't anymore, and in between there's all sorts of horror. The higher your population density, the more restrictive your society must be and the fewer perks (think things like national parks) you can have. You also need a larger industrial base to sustain quality of life and support intensive agriculture, sanitation requirements, and so on, leading to severe pollution problems. As you near an expanded carrying capacity, more stringent population controls become compulsory; historically, this has involved enforced celibacy, abortion, infanticide, familial suicide compelled by social mores, and when those controls failed, open warfare (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikopia and Collapse by Jared Diamond). Keep in mind this isn't "we want your oil" warfare--this is "there are too many of you" warfare.

One estimate says we could sustain 40 billion human beings on this planet. We've got the room. But that's not a planet I would want to live on.
 
2012-10-05 08:07:21 AM

Bontesla: randomjsa: How bout...

You pay for your own birth control if you simply can't control yourself by not having sex if you don't want children.

And quit calling it "free" because until it starts appearing out of thin air with no cost associated with manufacture or distribution, it is not free.

Society definitely works this way - said no one. Ever.

Look - we can't ban sex. People, in general, make bad decisions all of the damned time. Even the most rational person can set aside good decision making when it comes to getting laid. Now, we can either cross our arms and insist people evolve on demand or we can act like intelligent animals and start taking human stupidity into consideration.

The cost of adequate contraception shouldn't be a preventative factor. I've paid for 2 goddamned wars I never supported, tax cuts I've never requested (that bill is on its way), and a crap ton of other things that I had no say in.

There's a societal benefit in providing access to contraception and the cost of that access based on need.


How about YOU need it, then YOU pay for it.
 
2012-10-05 08:08:16 AM

Jackson Herring: Solution: offshore abortion boat.

The solution to every problem is a boat.


They could combine them with gambling barges...
 
2012-10-05 08:08:25 AM

jayhawk88: randomjsa: How bout...

You pay for your own birth control if you simply can't control yourself by not having sex if you don't want children.

And quit calling it "free" because until it starts appearing out of thin air with no cost associated with manufacture or distribution, it is not free.

Don't think about it as someone getting a benefit on your dime. Think of it as an investment. You (indirectly) pay a bit up front, and in return you get:

- Decreased need for welfare and other related benefits
- Decreased costs for insurance companies and hospitals
- Decreased rates of teen pregnancies
- Decreased rates of child abuse/neglect
- An improvement in public education, as not only will the number of children born decrease, but children will tend to be born more to families who are ready and willing to have children, increasing the chances these children will do well in school

Aside from the minimal amount you would pay in taxes to support this, THERE IS NO DOWN SIDE! None! Zero! Society would only benefit.


But how would we shame the sluts?
 
2012-10-05 08:08:53 AM

Bhruic: elementalogic: Stop abortion? There are over 7 billion of us around already, I don't think we really need to shore up the numbers anymore.

I was going to post this already, but it's even funnier with your post. Apparently not only are we not overpopulated (we're underpopulated!), but contraception causes abortions. Well, plus it turns men gay.

Of course, that link - while probably safe for work - is not safe for brain cells.


i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-10-05 08:09:27 AM

RobertBruce: Bontesla: randomjsa: How bout...

You pay for your own birth control if you simply can't control yourself by not having sex if you don't want children.

And quit calling it "free" because until it starts appearing out of thin air with no cost associated with manufacture or distribution, it is not free.

Society definitely works this way - said no one. Ever.

Look - we can't ban sex. People, in general, make bad decisions all of the damned time. Even the most rational person can set aside good decision making when it comes to getting laid. Now, we can either cross our arms and insist people evolve on demand or we can act like intelligent animals and start taking human stupidity into consideration.

The cost of adequate contraception shouldn't be a preventative factor. I've paid for 2 goddamned wars I never supported, tax cuts I've never requested (that bill is on its way), and a crap ton of other things that I had no say in.

There's a societal benefit in providing access to contraception and the cost of that access based on need.

How about YOU need it, then YOU pay for it.


How about lets be practical because if we don't pay for the birth control we're going to pay for the kid.
 
2012-10-05 08:10:36 AM
Why stop at birth control? Abstinence CAN work - you just need to have mandatory tattoos performed on 12 year old girls, with Linda Tripp tattooed on her back for doggie style and Linda Hunt tattooed on her belly for missionary.

Find a boner pill to overcome that!
 
2012-10-05 08:12:09 AM

Endrick: But how would we shame the sluts?


Just assume all women are sluts and shame the lot of 'em.
 
2012-10-05 08:12:42 AM

rubi_con_man: elementalogic: Stop abortion? There are over 7 billion of us around already, I don't think we really need to shore up the numbers anymore.

It's a shame that the people who are the poorest on the planet are most certainly going to be difficult to persuade that they need to stop burdening the planet with children it can't support.


But that does wonders for Rmoney's 47%, with a ban on abortion and some good tax policy we can be at 55% by the end of his term.
 
2012-10-05 08:12:58 AM

keylock71: moothemagiccow: keylock71: moothemagiccow: keylock71: Why do we have to stop abortions?

It's a crappy form of birth control. It's inefficient and slow. People shouldn't be getting pregnant if they don't want to.

See response to EvilEgg...

see urbandictionary: entry douchebag

Huh? Ok, my friend. You have a nice day.


What the hell? I've only ever seen you be nice to people. That guy must be on his ladies' time.
 
2012-10-05 08:13:08 AM

CPennypacker: How about lets be practical because if we don't pay for the birth control we're going to pay for the kid.


The words, "practical" and "pragmatic" really don't come into play when you're dealing with ideologues...
 
2012-10-05 08:13:28 AM

randomjsa: lots of derp


Just keep berating the spawning masses - I am sure they'll find it in their hearts to stop procreating just because you want them to.

GOP: Fresh ideas!
 
2012-10-05 08:16:07 AM

randomjsa: If you can't control yourself then that's your problem. What you're basically saying is that 'people can't control themselves and shouldn't be expected to take responsibility for themselves so unless we do it for them... these problems will result'.


I wish we could control ourselves a bit better when considering invading other countries.
 
2012-10-05 08:16:39 AM
Shouldn't all meds be free? It would really save society money in the long run.
 
2012-10-05 08:17:00 AM
FTFA: A dramatic new study with implications for next month's presidential election finds that offering women free birth control can reduce unplanned pregnancies -- and send the abortion rate spiraling downward.

Yeah ... New to the US, maybe. The rest of the world has known this since forever.

randomjsa: And quit calling it "free" because until it starts appearing out of thin air with no cost associated with manufacture or distribution, it is not free.


I've never understood the far right's inability to look more than a minute or two into the future. "Free" condoms for all is a small investment you make now so you won't have to pay a far steeper price later.
 
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