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(Daily Mail)   Paralyzed woman with terminal brain cancer wants Doctors to remove her breathing tube and let her die relatively quickly and painlessly with dignity, but her parents are preventing that from happening because Jesus   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 53
    More: Sad, Long Island North Shore Hospital, North Shore, anxiolytics, Acp, Ms Lee  
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11103 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Oct 2012 at 2:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-05 02:16:27 AM
5 votes:
Sick and wrong.

They interrupted any God's will the moment she was hooked up to machines and pumped full of chemicals.
2012-10-05 02:22:43 AM
4 votes:
Were one of my children or grandchildren to be in this situation, my heart would tell me to keep them alive at any cost but my head would tell me let it go.

There is nothing, just nothing that is going to heal this woman. She knows it, the doctors know it and anyone with half a brain knows it. If she wants to go, let her go. I would hate to have to witness this with any of my relatives, but if they wanted to let go, I'd let them. The parents here are just being selfish and stupid.
2012-10-05 02:10:52 AM
4 votes:
Damn. I can't handle all these "Stupid Events in Religion" posts in such quick succession.

Your religion is bad and you should feel bad.
2012-10-05 09:14:45 AM
3 votes:

SpacemanSpoof: kicksmile: SpacemanSpoof: Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.


It is the internet. Anti-thiests (mostly Christian hating psuedo-intellectuals) are like starving hyenas waiting for a story like this so they can run in cackling and gnashing teeth. But welcome to the internet anyway!

Oh, I'm no newbie... I was going toe-to-toe with anti-theists online when Fark was just a big-nutted squirrel. Of course, those were the more civilized days when people actually debated rather than just spewing hate at each other. (lawn, off, etc.) :)

It just seems that the hate is particularly strong with this thread for some reason, that's all.


What I don't understand is why the wishes of an adult are being trumped by other adults.

Parents or not, she is way past 18 and should be able to decide her own fate.
2012-10-05 09:11:49 AM
3 votes:

kicksmile: SpacemanSpoof: Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.


It is the internet. Anti-thiests (mostly Christian hating psuedo-intellectuals) are like starving hyenas waiting for a story like this so they can run in cackling and gnashing teeth. But welcome to the internet anyway!


These people are torturing their daughter because they believe that magic is real ... and we are the bad guys?!?

Fark you and your magic bullshiat ... this person is suffering and begging to have the man-made intervention stopped. This has nothing to do with magic or god or any other imaginary crap.

She has rights and these selfish, stupid people are denying them.
2012-10-05 02:52:49 AM
3 votes:
The euthanasia fight is a lot older than you think here's an Aug 31, story about a woman going to court for the right to die. That's August 31, 1912 Hell people were fighting for abortion rights in the 1830. Nothing is new and nothing ever changes the things your great-grandparents biatched about 100 years ago is the same things your great grand children will be biatching about in 2112.
2012-10-05 02:27:53 AM
3 votes:
The machine is keeping her alive? Turn off the machine.

If she lives, it's because god wants her to. If she dies, it's because god wants her to. End of story.
2012-10-05 02:23:15 AM
3 votes:
Those life support machines are playing God. Removing the machines only puts her life in God's hands.
2012-10-05 10:22:50 AM
2 votes:

You Are All Sheep: wingnut396: SpacemanSpoof:

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.

My step-mother was in a similar situation about a 2 years ago now. Her lungs were so scarred that there was not way for her to beath without being induced into a coma and kept on a breathing machine. There is no cure for the scarring that ARDS did to her lungs.

But the doctor kept stringing my dad along for about 7 weeks or so saying that "you never know, miracles happen".

Bullshiat. The only miracle that can happen now is if my dad wins the lottery to pay off 7 weeks of ICU care.

As far as do now harm. Which is more harmful? Keeping a person alive against their wishes as they lie in pain and agony with no hope of recover, or letting them die peacefully?

I think you hit the nail on the head. They have to pay for the machine that goes "BING".


As a nurse who spent many years working ICU, let me tell you how absolutely farking stupid you are. The goal of the ICU is to stabilize critically ill people, it is not to pay for machines that go "bing". If people don't meet the criteria, they are sent to other floors/units. There is not a practicing nurse or doctor who would let a terminal patient lie there and suffer to make money. Only a really sick fark would even conceive of something that evil. We know when it's time to let go, you farking imbeciles who are too afraid of offending god or great aunt margaret are what continues their suffering, not us. You farking lackwit.
2012-10-05 08:23:53 AM
2 votes:
It really is true.

We will never, as a species, achieve our great potential until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
2012-10-05 06:54:24 AM
2 votes:
So in this thread i've learned:

- Man has more power than ChristGod because they can use a Man made machine to stop ChristGod from taking what he wants thereby interrupting his Plan or breaking his Will

- Even though Man has more power than ChristGod, man will still pray to ChristGod to heal the sick and dying hooked up to the machine that is currently breaking ChristGod's will or plan

- Man presumes that once Man has interrupted ChristGod's will, that ChristGod will still listen to Man's prayers
2012-10-05 03:21:53 AM
2 votes:
medical professionals see people suffer while family members live in denial every day of the week. regardless of your age be wise and prepare the proper documentation so this cannot happen to you. and make damn sure several people know such paperwork exists. save yourself needless suffering, keep an unscrupulous medical facility from making money off your ravaged being (if that is your fear) and remove the guilt/denial from the minds of your loved ones.

/do it
//do it now, damn you!
2012-10-05 03:03:36 AM
2 votes:

Gyrfalcon: EmmaLou: What selfish parents. I know it must be hard to see her like that, but imagine being her and having to have such stress and drama at the end of your life :( is this really how these people want to end the time they have with her...a court battle?

When she dies, they will comfort themselves by telling themselves they did everything possible to prolong her stay on earth. They'll disregard the agony they kept her alive in, and assure themselves that what they did was right in the sight of their God. They'll believe with all their hearts that she is looking down from some kind of Heaven and smiling on them, saying that she loves them and forgives them for everything and doesn't blame them for the hell they put her through. Even while the court case drags on, they will be telling themselves she doesn't really want to die, it's the drugs or the cancer or Satan telling her that.

They will really believe all this and will never think for a second that they did something wrong.


Worst still - they're 1000% convinced that her suffering is just part of God's plan for her, and that there is always a silver lining to be found.

Now, I'm a religious person myself, but I doubt God said to himself, "when I create this person, I'm giving her a terminal brain tumor, just for the lulz".
2012-10-05 02:56:37 AM
2 votes:
I had to help kill my dad this year (on my birthday) and then a few months later, on my vacation, I had to help my mom and family decide to let my grandmother go as well. While that was going on, my aunt died alone because we were all at the other hospital.

I believe that a person should have the right to decide when and how they die. What I've seen this year is deplorable behavior by medical "professionals" who care only for the bottom line. This woman's decision should be respected.
2012-10-05 02:47:33 AM
2 votes:

EmmaLou: What selfish parents. I know it must be hard to see her like that, but imagine being her and having to have such stress and drama at the end of your life :( is this really how these people want to end the time they have with her...a court battle?


When she dies, they will comfort themselves by telling themselves they did everything possible to prolong her stay on earth. They'll disregard the agony they kept her alive in, and assure themselves that what they did was right in the sight of their God. They'll believe with all their hearts that she is looking down from some kind of Heaven and smiling on them, saying that she loves them and forgives them for everything and doesn't blame them for the hell they put her through. Even while the court case drags on, they will be telling themselves she doesn't really want to die, it's the drugs or the cancer or Satan telling her that.

They will really believe all this and will never think for a second that they did something wrong.
2012-10-05 02:46:17 AM
2 votes:
Speaking with the New York Daily News, Ms Lee's mother, Jin-ah Lee, said: 'Despite all this confusion, (my daughter) wants to go to heaven. I keep telling her she can get bette

Some Tiger Mom putting her own wishes ahead of the well being and dignity of her daugher. Color me shocked
2012-10-05 02:32:47 AM
2 votes:
Culture, sure. Irrationality not so much.
It's a shame this woman is unable to make the choice for herself. For all anyone knows she may want to just die and her family is doing her a disservice by not respecting that; albeit not knowing either way of course.


FTFM
2012-10-05 02:22:59 AM
2 votes:
meh. They're working it out at the hearing. The woman is probably already dead. Beyond that I think we can be respectful enough of other cultures not to subject them to our own standards, even if they say stuff that's patently crazy, like the statement that removing a breathing tube is suicide.
2012-10-05 02:22:27 AM
2 votes:
www.amsterdamtrader.com
2012-10-05 02:15:11 AM
2 votes:
Ms Lee's mother, Jin-ah Lee, said: 'I keep telling her she can get better.'

I'm speechless.
gja [TotalFark]
2012-10-05 05:25:49 PM
1 votes:

WhoGAS: gja: You, sir, get the prize for understanding a basic tenet of life. PERSPECTIVE.
I applaud you. I salute you. I raise a glass in commiseration with you.
YOU GET IT. So many simply do not.

When all is done and said you have made an outstanding effort at life.
It has thrown nothing but curves, knuckles and bean-balls at you yet you get up, dust off, and make ready for another swing.

Good on you! And I really f-ing mean that, sincerely.

Here's hoping for brighter tomorrows for you and yours.


I don't mean to make this thread about me (I really don't, the girl in the article needs the respect and attention she deserves) but I did want to say that what you said is about the nicest thing someone's said to me in years. Thank you for that. It means a lot to hear it.


My point, for this thread, is this:
This body that they are maintaining so artificially has managed (against odds that make a wimp of most of us) to clearly make her wishes known.
And the people that have the unmitigated GALL and HUBRIS, the vanity of these people...!
They make me sick-up. They are abhorrent meddling farks.

This woman deserves the dignity which is due her. Let he go. Let her find her peace.
The peace that she has decided will only come with a release from life and the shackles of this existence.
If ANY of these people were TRULY Christian, they would grant her that. They are "Christian for the cameras", for show, for their vanity. For shame.
Even this poor woman, as messed up as she is, GETS IT! It is the quality of your life as YOU perceive it that matters, not anothers perception.
gja [TotalFark]
2012-10-05 04:01:41 PM
1 votes:

WhoGAS: swangoatman: WhoGAS: I had to help kill my dad this year (on my birthday) and then a few months later, on my vacation, I had to help my mom and family decide to let my grandmother go as well. While that was going on, my aunt died alone because we were all at the other hospital.

I believe that a person should have the right to decide when and how they die. What I've seen this year is deplorable behavior by medical "professionals" who care only for the bottom line. This woman's decision should be respected.

Stay the F*ck away from me..

I try to stay the F*CK away from everyone these days.

2012

Turn 40
Dad dies (in front of me on birthday)
Sister is admitted to hospice care as her health deteriorates due to previous meth use (2 days after my dad died)
Mom gets cancer (diagnosed while visiting on vacation)
Brother gets 15th DUI (while I was there on vacation)
Grandmother falls, breaks hip, neck and head and dies days later (yeah, vacation)
Aunt has a heart attack, dies in hospital across town while family was at grandma's hospital (vacation)
Divorce is final
Bankruptcy was filed

Looks like a horrible list but I got my kids, ex got the money. I have a decent job (for today), my bills are paid, my children are happy, my fridge is stocked with food and drink and I still have an ounce of bud sitting here.

My life is actually pretty damn good if you ask me...I just don't do vacations or birthdays any more. :o)


You, sir, get the prize for understanding a basic tenet of life. PERSPECTIVE.
I applaud you. I salute you. I raise a glass in commiseration with you.
YOU GET IT. So many simply do not.

When all is done and said you have made an outstanding effort at life.
It has thrown nothing but curves, knuckles and bean-balls at you yet you get up, dust off, and make ready for another swing.

Good on you! And I really f-ing mean that, sincerely.

Here's hoping for brighter tomorrows for you and yours.
2012-10-05 02:32:22 PM
1 votes:

swangoatman: WhoGAS: I had to help kill my dad this year (on my birthday) and then a few months later, on my vacation, I had to help my mom and family decide to let my grandmother go as well. While that was going on, my aunt died alone because we were all at the other hospital.

I believe that a person should have the right to decide when and how they die. What I've seen this year is deplorable behavior by medical "professionals" who care only for the bottom line. This woman's decision should be respected.

Stay the F*ck away from me..


I try to stay the F*CK away from everyone these days.

2012

Turn 40
Dad dies (in front of me on birthday)
Sister is admitted to hospice care as her health deteriorates due to previous meth use (2 days after my dad died)
Mom gets cancer (diagnosed while visiting on vacation)
Brother gets 15th DUI (while I was there on vacation)
Grandmother falls, breaks hip, neck and head and dies days later (yeah, vacation)
Aunt has a heart attack, dies in hospital across town while family was at grandma's hospital (vacation)
Divorce is final
Bankruptcy was filed

Looks like a horrible list but I got my kids, ex got the money. I have a decent job (for today), my bills are paid, my children are happy, my fridge is stocked with food and drink and I still have an ounce of bud sitting here.

My life is actually pretty damn good if you ask me...I just don't do vacations or birthdays any more. :o)
2012-10-05 02:11:40 PM
1 votes:
Religious busy bodies are disgusting people. This is like someone denying you your rights because they staunchly believe Mother Goose stories are real.
2012-10-05 02:03:24 PM
1 votes:
The article doesn't clearly state that there is no hope for recovery -- or else I missed it but I assume, from the details, there is none.

Most people tend to forget that a paralyzed person usually has no feeling from the neck down. Some do, but most don't. Christopher Reeves had no feeling from the neck down.

Nothing works.

This means they can't control their bladder or bowels. They can't move their arms or legs and can't feel anything that happens to them. They can't scratch an itch. Can't use a TV remote. No sex. (1: no feeling there, 2: nothing works.) The majority require breathing assistance because without it, they'll suffocate. The automatic muscles which control the breathing no longer work.

I don't know if they can feel suffocation when it begins.

Most of the time, they lay alone in a room, with a TV on, accompanied by assorted machines that keep them alive. Food is usually delivered via naselgastric tube through the nose and into the stomach. Sometimes, a line is surgically inserted into the stomach through the abdominal wall.

Often this is done to prevent chocking, a danger when eating solid food and when the chest muscles no longer have the strength to cough the stuff out.

Interaction is limited. You just get to lay there, doing nothing, hour after hour, day after day.

Christopher Reeves found a purpose to keep himself going. Most don't. Treatment is tremendously expensive and many insurance companies have a set limit as to how much they'll pay out.

The person is susceptive to pneumonia, chest colds, bed sores, muscle atrophy and contractions. Basically, they can shrivel up, and the limbs twist into odd positions unless care is taken. Unused muscles loose mass. Tendons shrink.

They'll need a urinary, indwelling catheter, which will leave them prone to bladder infections, that can turn into kidney infections. They'll need to be physically moved and rolled every so many hours to keep their skin from breaking down where it touches the bed. They'll have to be cleaned by hand even with diapers. (For women, there's a little complication: the usually liquid feces, constrained by a diaper, makes it's way up into the vagina. This requires manual cleaning, can break down the membranes, cause vaginitis and a host of infections.)

An alternative is a colostomy, which requires surgery.
Young women will still have their period, meaning someone will have to take care of that. (Option: hysterectomy, which requires major surgery.)

However, the worst thing for most quadriplegics is NOT being able to interact. Just hours and hours of mind numbing solitude.

Personally, IMO, that's pure, unadulterated hell. The controversy over solitary confinement in prisons is a walk in the park compared to this. At least the prisoners can move about, feel things, eat real food, shout to each other and exchange messages and DO THINGS.

The psychological effects of this state, with insufficient stimulation, or even with stimulation, would naturally be major depression. Some people have just gone insane and delusional.

When there is no cure, no hope, I believe the person has the right to die. I also believe that Dr. Kevorkian's method was a lot more merciful than just removing breathing or feeding tubes and let them suffocate or starve to death.

With his method, the person just 'goes to sleep'. I suspect that the initial rush of the tranquilizer makes them feel good before passing out and they don't feel the heart stopping medication when it begins.
Something like Lethal Injection, only without the paralytic and activated by the person at a time of their choosing. It can be activated by a mouth switch. It's also IV drip, not pressurized injection.

Try and imagine the living hell this woman is in. Especially once the furor eases up, which it will in days or weeks, and less and less people come to visit her.

I think Kevorkian was ahead of his time. His device, IMO, is a lot better than letting them suffocate or starve to death and a whole lot quicker.

I understand the religious aspect, but some religions allow suicide. Plus, her folks need to consider what she is going through. From a vibrant, active, energetic life, to basically a head on a pillow in a small room.

BTW. Some patients can actually will themselves to die. This is rare, but real. It also helps if there is a no resuscitation order.
2012-10-05 01:52:42 PM
1 votes:
Religion is really given too much power in this country. The patient wants it ended, her doctors say she's lucid, and the doctors don't seem to think she will get better. Why is her parents' opinion important again? Oh wait, because other people agree with them based on what they think a 2000 year old book says when it at best only metaphorically touches upon the situation.

When my brother was in his last days, it's possible that a breathing tube could have extended his life. He was in the end stages of leukemia, so probably not very much extra life, but an outside shot. The doctors advised against a breathing tube because of the possible legal implications of removing it later. He agreed he wanted no heroic measures, as did my parents. I've always resented that the possible intrusion of fundies denied him one last shot. He was 25.

Religion is theoretically fine, but in many ways it seems like a virus. It just can't be kept to oneself way, way too often. It's often touted as a system of morality, but more often it seems like a set of loopholes to justify emotional or just bad thinking.

\happy friday?
2012-10-05 01:52:18 PM
1 votes:
Suicide? If it hadn't been for all the plumbing the hospital put into this poor woman she'd be dead already. 100 years ago she might have made it only a few months before dying of "consumption" or whatever they called cancer back then, doped up on morphine.

My stepsister died from cancer a few years ago, and letting her go was the hardest thing her mother (a deaconess at her southern baptist church) had ever done. She had been diagnosed with lupus as an early teen (go ahead with the "it's not lupus" jokes - welcome to FARK) and had to deal with hospital stay after hospital stay, kidney transplants and other horrendous sh*t that I don't know I could have endured. Then there was the cancer that came back again and again and again. Finally after her umpteenth round of chemo she said "fark all this sh*t, let me go. I'm done". Her mother, who had gone through all this with her, agreed, and all treatment was stopped. The docs gave her enough painkillers to put down an entire herd of rhino, and her family was at her side when she passed away, laughing and talking and spending the hours she had left. She cussed like a drunken sailor when she was high.

She died one month shy of her 40th birthday.

I understand her parents want to keep her around, because they're her parents. But this religious fanaticism is bullsh*t. If they really loved her they would let her go rather than see her suffer.

/reason 1,987,564 why I hate the f*ck out of religion
//not faith, but religion
2012-10-05 01:14:44 PM
1 votes:
my grandmother had a Do Not Resuscitate order on file. she was in the hospital for a week alert and happy. when her heart finally gave out, my mother had to remind the hospital staff about the DNR. that had to be extremely difficult for her to do, but she and my dad watched as g-ma slowly slipped away... with quiet dignity. the same way she lived her life.

/my 2 cents
2012-10-05 10:55:19 AM
1 votes:

kicksmile: You are everything that is wrong with anti-theists. And thank you for confirming my post.


a) I am not anti-theist ... I am atheist.
b) I am anti-religion as I recognize it for the snake-oil that it is.

Most importantly, I am against religious people inflicting their bullshiat on to others.

Losing your respect does not bother me in the least ... you are defending people who are torturing this poor woman. That is sick and twisted.
2012-10-05 10:44:32 AM
1 votes:

Bender The Offender: You Are All Sheep: wingnut396: SpacemanSpoof:

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.

My step-mother was in a similar situation about a 2 years ago now. Her lungs were so scarred that there was not way for her to beath without being induced into a coma and kept on a breathing machine. There is no cure for the scarring that ARDS did to her lungs.

But the doctor kept stringing my dad along for about 7 weeks or so saying that "you never know, miracles happen".

Bullshiat. The only miracle that can happen now is if my dad wins the lottery to pay off 7 weeks of ICU care.

As far as do now harm. Which is more harmful? Keeping a person alive against their wishes as they lie in pain and agony with no hope of recover, or letting them die peacefully?

I think you hit the nail on the head. They have to pay for the machine that goes "BING".

As a nurse who spent many years working ICU, let me tell you how absolutely farking stupid you are. The goal of the ICU is to stabilize critically ill people, it is not to pay for machines that go "bing". If people don't meet the criteria, they are sent to other floors/units. There is not a practicing nurse or doctor who would let a terminal patient lie there and suffer to make money. Only a really sick fark would even conceive o ...


Good God woman, you're going to have an aneurysm. Yes, it sucks that health care providers are portrayed as bad guys, but come on, if I got used to it within a year, surely someone of your experience can shake it off.

I mean, the guy feels put out, but probably also realizes that is expertise over pathology and disease process does not match the doctor's. He also probably recognizes that he's missing something, or is the victim of miscommunication, but he needs to assign blame to feel better. So, let him (or her) assign it where he or she sees fit. His vitriol isn't going to affect any health care professional, however, your particular brand of condescension will just play into his or her perception of persecution.

Oh, and in case, I wasn't clear, You Are All Sheep, your cynicism has given way to a persecution complex. A nonsensical one at that. Spaceman Spoof, I truly am sorry for your loss, and it sucks that you feel you were led on, but I think you need to acknowledge that deeper understanding of disease process and intervention is a more likely explanation to the doctor's course of action than malice. We aren't all bastards. As a matter of fact, the majority of us give two shiats about our patients and their well being. Sometimes, we can't communicate the rationale behind our decisions because of the complexity of the situation...and while platitudes like 'miracles can happen' don't help, please understand that sometimes the situation is probably beyond your understanding. I don't know the particulars of your relatives case, but I really do hope and think that there is something more to the situation.
2012-10-05 10:20:37 AM
1 votes:

natazha: I'm baffled why people who are convinced that they are going to this "heaven" place, are uniformly afraid to die. Is it possible that they aren't truly certain?


4.bp.blogspot.com 

I he actually believed he'd be happy to be taken out by some nut-job.
2012-10-05 10:17:00 AM
1 votes:
I'm baffled why people who are convinced that they are going to this "heaven" place, are uniformly afraid to die. Is it possible that they aren't truly certain?
2012-10-05 10:03:09 AM
1 votes:

Bhruic: So you might be able to claim sick and evil, but they aren't being selfish.


Yes they are.

It is the victim's choice as to what religious beliefs she is going to follow and she either doesn't believe in magic or she doesn't believe that stopping man-made intervention is suicide. Either way the parents are selfishly overriding her choice!
2012-10-05 09:56:03 AM
1 votes:

SpacemanSpoof: So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?


This is the most personal freedom of all. All other freedoms come from the personal freedom of controlling one's own life and body. Having someone else interject their principles or beliefs in a way that takes that freedom away should only be done when absolutely necessary, with as minimal intrusion as possible, and with oversight and transparency of the person who is exerting control.

If you oppose euthanasia on the basis of your philosophy, then fine. If you oppose euthanasia on the basis of your religion, good for you. If you take control of my body in order to impose your convictions or beliefs on me, then you're a no good son of a biatch, no matter how "moral" or "correct" those beliefs are.
2012-10-05 09:27:24 AM
1 votes:

wingnut396: SpacemanSpoof:

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.

My step-mother was in a similar situation about a 2 years ago now. Her lungs were so scarred that there was not way for her to beath without being induced into a coma and kept on a breathing machine. There is no cure for the scarring that ARDS did to her lungs.

But the doctor kept stringing my dad along for about 7 weeks or so saying that "you never know, miracles happen".

Bullshiat. The only miracle that can happen now is if my dad wins the lottery to pay off 7 weeks of ICU care.

As far as do now harm. Which is more harmful? Keeping a person alive against their wishes as they lie in pain and agony with no hope of recover, or letting them die peacefully?


Nothing is more terrifying to folks than going to that glorious and beautiful great reward of perfection they pray and sing about every Sunday.
2012-10-05 09:16:06 AM
1 votes:
When you are admitted into the hospital with a potentially life threatening pathology, ask to speak to a social worker, clergy person of your choice, or hell, even your doctor. Tell them flat out the extent of life prolonging measures you would be OK with. If this is not something you are familiar with, ask a nurse or a physician about end of life treatment. It is your right as a patient, and while you may not get answers immediately, you should get them in a timely manner.
Verbally, or in writing if you have the capacity, give your advanced care directive to your physician in the presence of a family member, nurse, resident (whatever, just a witness).
Take a lesson from all this coverage of such incidents and do yourself a favour: draft an advanced care directive. Encourage your family to do the same. Discuss your decision with your family, and tell them in no uncertain term what your directive stipulates.
As a physician, I've had 'the talk' with several families of varying beliefs, and it inevitably comes down to 'What would the patient want?'. Your beliefs as a relative be damned (sorry), but my prima facie duty is to the patient, and any medical professional worth his or her salt will abide by the patient's directive either personally or through referral. I will do my best to counsel their loved ones, and clarify the situation to the best of my ability and their understanding, but I will not renege on my duty to my patients.
2012-10-05 08:52:32 AM
1 votes:
Doesn't Free Will allow her to make the choice?
2012-10-05 08:23:48 AM
1 votes:

Bhruic: EmmaLou: What selfish parents. I know it must be hard to see her like that, but imagine being her and having to have such stress and drama at the end of your life :( is this really how these people want to end the time they have with her...a court battle?

It's not selfish. It's stupid, but it's not selfish. They legitimately believe that if they let her get the tube removed, she'll burn in hell. Now I personally think that's idiotic, but if you believe it to be true, then preventing her from doing it would be the correct thing to do.


No, it's stupid, not legitimate. I am honestly certain that someone who beats them until they give in will keep THEM from going to hell.

There is nowhere in the Bible that you have an obligation to torture someone to keep them alive, even if that person is yourself.

These people are sick, selfish, and evil.
2012-10-05 08:18:44 AM
1 votes:
So glad I have a living will to dictate what happens in these situations.
Not so glad I made my twin brother the 'man in charge' of the living will.

/he unplugs things in my house and calls it 'practice'
2012-10-05 07:57:56 AM
1 votes:

octopied: Tell her to wait a few days and really think it over, if she is still adamant, take out the tubes.


Erm, she's had that tumor for a whole year and has been paralyzed for a month. Also "Speaking on behalf of Ms Lee, Dr Dana Lustbader testified that the patient 'consistently asks that her breathing tube be removed.'" (FTFA).

I'd say she's already had enough day to think it over, wouldn't you agree?
2012-10-05 04:19:28 AM
1 votes:
Stories like this are precisely why my wife and I drafted advance health care directives (more commonly known as living wills) so that our respective families know our wishes. Neither one of us wants to be kept alive by machines and slowly waste away when there's no chance of a cure.

Her family is mainly comprised of religious nutjobs who all claim to know the will of God for basically any major life event, so I expect to be battling them tooth and nail should we ever be in that type of situation. 

/hopefully we both just die together in our sleep
//or while farking
2012-10-05 03:14:03 AM
1 votes:

Bonzo_1116: I guess all those saints and other assorted martyrs are burning in Hell, then. Good to know.


According to every baptist I've ever met, they most certainly are.
2012-10-05 03:09:05 AM
1 votes:

Crudbucket:

Getting into Heaven relies on playing by the rules, and apparently you can only get in if you fight and scratch and cling to every second of life here on earth. Which makes sense, when you don't really think about it.


I guess all those saints and other assorted martyrs are burning in Hell, then. Good to know.
2012-10-05 03:02:55 AM
1 votes:
FTFA:

Dr Powell said that there are some practices that could help Ms Lee's parents come to terms with their daughter's illness. 'These are religious people, and they know we are all mortal,' she said. 'Being clear about that can maybe help decrease their suffering.'


I dunno, it seems to me that many religions are based around the idea that people (or their spirit or soul or whatever the f*ck) are not mortal, and when we shuffle off this earthly coil we go on to heaven, hell, ghosthood or reincarnation or whatever. Pretty much every religion I can think of absolutely relies on the idea of some sort of afterlife.

If these parents want to come to terms with it in a Christian way, can't they realize Jesus is "calling her home" or similar bullsh*t?
2012-10-05 02:59:48 AM
1 votes:

borg: ...the things your great-grandparents biatched about 100 years ago is the same things your great grand children will be biatching about in 2112.


Not if the priests of the Temple of Syrinx have anything to say about it.
2012-10-05 02:50:11 AM
1 votes:
I have the best family. They've promised to kill me in this situation, even if it means going to jail.
2012-10-05 02:47:23 AM
1 votes:
God's here with me.
ecx.images-amazon.com 
God's on my side.
2012-10-05 02:46:55 AM
1 votes:
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Link
2012-10-05 02:36:49 AM
1 votes:
What selfish parents. I know it must be hard to see her like that, but imagine being her and having to have such stress and drama at the end of your life :( is this really how these people want to end the time they have with her...a court battle?
2012-10-05 02:31:06 AM
1 votes:
28 is too farking young...
2012-10-05 02:23:53 AM
1 votes:
What? They aren't praying her better? DNRTFA.
2012-10-05 02:21:15 AM
1 votes:

ryant123: This just in! Religion is an excuse people use to act like turns good people into sociopaths.

2012-10-05 02:12:26 AM
1 votes:
REPUBLICANS to the rescue!

Shine up those "Save Terry" buttons!
 
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