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(Daily Mail)   Paralyzed woman with terminal brain cancer wants Doctors to remove her breathing tube and let her die relatively quickly and painlessly with dignity, but her parents are preventing that from happening because Jesus   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 119
    More: Sad, Long Island North Shore Hospital, North Shore, anxiolytics, Acp, Ms Lee  
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11106 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Oct 2012 at 2:07 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-05 02:10:52 AM  
Damn. I can't handle all these "Stupid Events in Religion" posts in such quick succession.

Your religion is bad and you should feel bad.
 
2012-10-05 02:12:26 AM  
REPUBLICANS to the rescue!

Shine up those "Save Terry" buttons!
 
2012-10-05 02:14:33 AM  
jesus loves him some suffering
 
2012-10-05 02:15:11 AM  
Ms Lee's mother, Jin-ah Lee, said: 'I keep telling her she can get better.'

I'm speechless.
 
2012-10-05 02:16:09 AM  
Yeah, and the paralyzed guy who handles the estate is named Will. I've heard this one before.
 
2012-10-05 02:16:18 AM  
Not a repeat from 2005...
 
2012-10-05 02:16:27 AM  
Sick and wrong.

They interrupted any God's will the moment she was hooked up to machines and pumped full of chemicals.
 
2012-10-05 02:17:00 AM  
This just in! Religion turns good people into sociopaths.
 
2012-10-05 02:20:57 AM  
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1132623/
 
2012-10-05 02:21:15 AM  

ryant123: This just in! Religion is an excuse people use to act like turns good people into sociopaths.

 
2012-10-05 02:22:27 AM  
www.amsterdamtrader.com
 
2012-10-05 02:22:43 AM  
Were one of my children or grandchildren to be in this situation, my heart would tell me to keep them alive at any cost but my head would tell me let it go.

There is nothing, just nothing that is going to heal this woman. She knows it, the doctors know it and anyone with half a brain knows it. If she wants to go, let her go. I would hate to have to witness this with any of my relatives, but if they wanted to let go, I'd let them. The parents here are just being selfish and stupid.
 
2012-10-05 02:22:59 AM  
meh. They're working it out at the hearing. The woman is probably already dead. Beyond that I think we can be respectful enough of other cultures not to subject them to our own standards, even if they say stuff that's patently crazy, like the statement that removing a breathing tube is suicide.
 
2012-10-05 02:23:15 AM  
Those life support machines are playing God. Removing the machines only puts her life in God's hands.
 
2012-10-05 02:23:53 AM  
What? They aren't praying her better? DNRTFA.
 
2012-10-05 02:24:37 AM  

phrenicmonkey: Ms Lee's mother, Jin-ah Lee, said: 'I keep telling her she can get better.'

I'm speechless.


This isn't like being turned into a newt!
 
2012-10-05 02:25:09 AM  
On Grey's Anatomy, there was a patient who had terminal brain cancer and was trying to refuse treatment. Her family stepped in and finally convinced her that treatment was her only hope.

She made a full recovery and went on to see her daughter get married and have grandchildren.

That woman's name was Gladys Knight and the Pips.

And now you know the rest of the story.
 
2012-10-05 02:25:27 AM  
And now that I've RTFA I can say that, parents or jeebus, someone really hates that gal.

/Can't it be both?
 
2012-10-05 02:26:34 AM  
Christians encouraging human suffering?

Must be a day ending in y.
 
2012-10-05 02:27:12 AM  
'Whose Life is it anyway?'

Not yours, biatch! You belong to Jesus!
 
2012-10-05 02:27:44 AM  
whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-05 02:27:53 AM  
The machine is keeping her alive? Turn off the machine.

If she lives, it's because god wants her to. If she dies, it's because god wants her to. End of story.
 
2012-10-05 02:30:01 AM  

BoxOfBees: Beyond that I think we can be respectful enough of other cultures not to subject them to our own standards, even if they say stuff that's patently crazy, like the statement that removing a breathing tube is suicide.


Culture, sure. Irrationality not so much.
It's a shame this woman is unable to make the choice for herself. For all anyone knows she may want to just die and her family is doing her a disservice by not respecting that; albeit not knowing either way of course.
 
2012-10-05 02:31:06 AM  
28 is too farking young...
 
2012-10-05 02:32:47 AM  
Culture, sure. Irrationality not so much.
It's a shame this woman is unable to make the choice for herself. For all anyone knows she may want to just die and her family is doing her a disservice by not respecting that; albeit not knowing either way of course.


FTFM
 
2012-10-05 02:36:49 AM  
What selfish parents. I know it must be hard to see her like that, but imagine being her and having to have such stress and drama at the end of your life :( is this really how these people want to end the time they have with her...a court battle?
 
2012-10-05 02:45:02 AM  

EmmaLou: What selfish parents. I know it must be hard to see her like that, but imagine being her and having to have such stress and drama at the end of your life :( is this really how these people want to end the time they have with her...a court battle?


It's not selfish. It's stupid, but it's not selfish. They legitimately believe that if they let her get the tube removed, she'll burn in hell. Now I personally think that's idiotic, but if you believe it to be true, then preventing her from doing it would be the correct thing to do.
 
2012-10-05 02:46:17 AM  
Speaking with the New York Daily News, Ms Lee's mother, Jin-ah Lee, said: 'Despite all this confusion, (my daughter) wants to go to heaven. I keep telling her she can get bette

Some Tiger Mom putting her own wishes ahead of the well being and dignity of her daugher. Color me shocked
 
2012-10-05 02:46:55 AM  
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Link
 
2012-10-05 02:47:23 AM  
God's here with me.
ecx.images-amazon.com 
God's on my side.
 
2012-10-05 02:47:33 AM  

EmmaLou: What selfish parents. I know it must be hard to see her like that, but imagine being her and having to have such stress and drama at the end of your life :( is this really how these people want to end the time they have with her...a court battle?


When she dies, they will comfort themselves by telling themselves they did everything possible to prolong her stay on earth. They'll disregard the agony they kept her alive in, and assure themselves that what they did was right in the sight of their God. They'll believe with all their hearts that she is looking down from some kind of Heaven and smiling on them, saying that she loves them and forgives them for everything and doesn't blame them for the hell they put her through. Even while the court case drags on, they will be telling themselves she doesn't really want to die, it's the drugs or the cancer or Satan telling her that.

They will really believe all this and will never think for a second that they did something wrong.
 
2012-10-05 02:48:56 AM  

phrenicmonkey: Ms Lee's mother, Jin-ah Lee, said: 'I keep telling her she can get better.'

I'm speechless.


Good thing you can still type.

JESUS!
 
2012-10-05 02:50:11 AM  
I have the best family. They've promised to kill me in this situation, even if it means going to jail.
 
2012-10-05 02:52:49 AM  
The euthanasia fight is a lot older than you think here's an Aug 31, story about a woman going to court for the right to die. That's August 31, 1912 Hell people were fighting for abortion rights in the 1830. Nothing is new and nothing ever changes the things your great-grandparents biatched about 100 years ago is the same things your great grand children will be biatching about in 2112.
 
2012-10-05 02:55:58 AM  

borg: The euthanasia fight is a lot older than you think here's an Aug 31, story about a woman going to court for the right to die. That's August 31, 1912 Hell people were fighting for abortion rights in the 1830. Nothing is new and nothing ever changes the things your great-grandparents biatched about 100 years ago is the same things your great grand children will be biatching about in 2112.


All lies! Things are terrible now for the first time ever, and the battles we fight today are the most important ones that have ever been fought!
 
2012-10-05 02:56:37 AM  
I had to help kill my dad this year (on my birthday) and then a few months later, on my vacation, I had to help my mom and family decide to let my grandmother go as well. While that was going on, my aunt died alone because we were all at the other hospital.

I believe that a person should have the right to decide when and how they die. What I've seen this year is deplorable behavior by medical "professionals" who care only for the bottom line. This woman's decision should be respected.
 
2012-10-05 02:59:48 AM  

borg: ...the things your great-grandparents biatched about 100 years ago is the same things your great grand children will be biatching about in 2112.


Not if the priests of the Temple of Syrinx have anything to say about it.
 
2012-10-05 03:02:55 AM  
FTFA:

Dr Powell said that there are some practices that could help Ms Lee's parents come to terms with their daughter's illness. 'These are religious people, and they know we are all mortal,' she said. 'Being clear about that can maybe help decrease their suffering.'


I dunno, it seems to me that many religions are based around the idea that people (or their spirit or soul or whatever the f*ck) are not mortal, and when we shuffle off this earthly coil we go on to heaven, hell, ghosthood or reincarnation or whatever. Pretty much every religion I can think of absolutely relies on the idea of some sort of afterlife.

If these parents want to come to terms with it in a Christian way, can't they realize Jesus is "calling her home" or similar bullsh*t?
 
2012-10-05 03:03:36 AM  

Gyrfalcon: EmmaLou: What selfish parents. I know it must be hard to see her like that, but imagine being her and having to have such stress and drama at the end of your life :( is this really how these people want to end the time they have with her...a court battle?

When she dies, they will comfort themselves by telling themselves they did everything possible to prolong her stay on earth. They'll disregard the agony they kept her alive in, and assure themselves that what they did was right in the sight of their God. They'll believe with all their hearts that she is looking down from some kind of Heaven and smiling on them, saying that she loves them and forgives them for everything and doesn't blame them for the hell they put her through. Even while the court case drags on, they will be telling themselves she doesn't really want to die, it's the drugs or the cancer or Satan telling her that.

They will really believe all this and will never think for a second that they did something wrong.


Worst still - they're 1000% convinced that her suffering is just part of God's plan for her, and that there is always a silver lining to be found.

Now, I'm a religious person myself, but I doubt God said to himself, "when I create this person, I'm giving her a terminal brain tumor, just for the lulz".
 
2012-10-05 03:06:14 AM  

Bonzo_1116: FTFA:

Dr Powell said that there are some practices that could help Ms Lee's parents come to terms with their daughter's illness. 'These are religious people, and they know we are all mortal,' she said. 'Being clear about that can maybe help decrease their suffering.'


I dunno, it seems to me that many religions are based around the idea that people (or their spirit or soul or whatever the f*ck) are not mortal, and when we shuffle off this earthly coil we go on to heaven, hell, ghosthood or reincarnation or whatever. Pretty much every religion I can think of absolutely relies on the idea of some sort of afterlife.

If these parents want to come to terms with it in a Christian way, can't they realize Jesus is "calling her home" or similar bullsh*t?


Getting into Heaven relies on playing by the rules, and apparently you can only get in if you fight and scratch and cling to every second of life here on earth. Which makes sense, when you don't really think about it.
 
2012-10-05 03:09:05 AM  

Crudbucket:

Getting into Heaven relies on playing by the rules, and apparently you can only get in if you fight and scratch and cling to every second of life here on earth. Which makes sense, when you don't really think about it.


I guess all those saints and other assorted martyrs are burning in Hell, then. Good to know.
 
2012-10-05 03:14:03 AM  

Bonzo_1116: I guess all those saints and other assorted martyrs are burning in Hell, then. Good to know.


According to every baptist I've ever met, they most certainly are.
 
2012-10-05 03:21:53 AM  
medical professionals see people suffer while family members live in denial every day of the week. regardless of your age be wise and prepare the proper documentation so this cannot happen to you. and make damn sure several people know such paperwork exists. save yourself needless suffering, keep an unscrupulous medical facility from making money off your ravaged being (if that is your fear) and remove the guilt/denial from the minds of your loved ones.

/do it
//do it now, damn you!
 
2012-10-05 04:19:28 AM  
Stories like this are precisely why my wife and I drafted advance health care directives (more commonly known as living wills) so that our respective families know our wishes. Neither one of us wants to be kept alive by machines and slowly waste away when there's no chance of a cure.

Her family is mainly comprised of religious nutjobs who all claim to know the will of God for basically any major life event, so I expect to be battling them tooth and nail should we ever be in that type of situation. 

/hopefully we both just die together in our sleep
//or while farking
 
2012-10-05 04:19:33 AM  
praise jeebus!
 
2012-10-05 04:37:20 AM  

elementalogic:
//or while farking


The whole "nice guys finish last" bit just got a lot more creepier.
 
2012-10-05 04:52:27 AM  
I haz a RAGE.

Die slowly, Christers, preferably with no one to hear you beg.
 
2012-10-05 04:57:27 AM  
I know I'm going to go relatively soon. The choice of when, and how to do so is therefor extremely important to me.

Leaving this world is unpleasant enough; should my loved ones really suffer criminal penalties for holding my hand as I do so?

Religious shiatbags; you can have my soul; I'm bloody done with it.
 
2012-10-05 04:57:42 AM  

BoxOfBees: meh. They're working it out at the hearing. The woman is probably already dead. Beyond that I think we can be respectful enough of other cultures not to subject them to our own standards, even if they say stuff that's patently crazy, like the statement that removing a breathing tube is suicide.


But, but, godly miracle! Praise jeebus!
/let the poor lady already
 
2012-10-05 05:32:55 AM  

farkingismybusiness: God's here with me.
[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300] 
God's on my side.




i1.ytimg.com
(Clicky-poppy)
 
2012-10-05 05:35:36 AM  
Painless suffocation? Yeah, right, Subby.
 
2012-10-05 05:52:59 AM  
Elementalogic - while farking? That would surely mean one goes first. Do you keep going in that situation? Something to ponder.
 
2012-10-05 06:07:48 AM  
i love the pic of them crowded around her bed, and praying, with the minister laying his hands on her head to "DRIVE THE SATAN'S DEMON OF CANCER" out. Sighs, ya, that will do it..thanks. Let the poor girl die with a shred of dignity.
 
2012-10-05 06:39:39 AM  

yukichigai: farkingismybusiness: God's here with me.
[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300] 
God's on my side.


[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]
(Clicky-poppy)


You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Faved.
 
2012-10-05 06:51:40 AM  

CarrieWhite: Elementalogic - while farking? That would surely mean one goes first. Do you keep going in that situation? Something to ponder.


Ideally - we both go at climax...or during that wonderful, relaxing afterglow.

/which means she'll be immortal
//I keed, I keed
 
2012-10-05 06:54:24 AM  
So in this thread i've learned:

- Man has more power than ChristGod because they can use a Man made machine to stop ChristGod from taking what he wants thereby interrupting his Plan or breaking his Will

- Even though Man has more power than ChristGod, man will still pray to ChristGod to heal the sick and dying hooked up to the machine that is currently breaking ChristGod's will or plan

- Man presumes that once Man has interrupted ChristGod's will, that ChristGod will still listen to Man's prayers
 
2012-10-05 07:20:22 AM  

aagrajag: I know I'm going to go relatively soon. The choice of when, and how to do so is therefor extremely important to me.


That's ok, you'll be back soon, and Arthur Dent will just kill you again.

But seriously, I hope you're able to make the choice that you want to make, when you need to make it.
 
2012-10-05 07:25:19 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The machine is keeping her alive? Turn off the machine.

If she lives, it's because god wants her to. If she dies, it's because god wants her to. End of story.


Yep.
TFA said that the church members were praying for her and telling her what God had planned. It seems that she is real aware of what God has planned for her.
That is just so wrong.

/rage
 
2012-10-05 07:33:01 AM  
Stupid christians or not its a parent who doesn't want their child to die. Who knows, if I where ever in that position maybe I'd become a stupid Christian.

Hope I never ever have get to finf out.
/going to kiss my child now.
//talk amonst youselves.
 
2012-10-05 07:41:31 AM  
Ante Mortem

It is likely enough that lions and scorpions
Guard the end; life never was bonded to be endurable nor the
act of dying
Unpainful; the brain burning too often
Earns, though it held itself detached from the object, often a
burnt age.
No matter, I shall not shorten it by hand.
Incapable of body or unmoved of brain is no evil, one always
went envying
The quietness of stones. But if the striped blossom
Insanity spread lewd splendors and lightning terrors at the end
of the forest;
Or intolerable pain work its known miracle,
Exile the monarch soul, set a sick monkey in the office . . .
remember me
Entire and balanced when I was younger,
And could lift stones, and comprehend in the praises the cruelties
of life.
 
2012-10-05 07:43:30 AM  
It says in the article the seizure that paralyzed her only happened last month, so understandably her parents haven't come to terms with the idea of "This won't get better"

Frankly, I think the woman in question should give it some more serious thought. Yeah, it's a horrible situation,and complete physical restriction, but she is at least able to communicate. Does she really want to die?
 
2012-10-05 07:53:26 AM  
^ Somehow I missed the part where she is terminally ill. That's a bit of a different ball of wax. Tell her to wait a few days and really think it over, if she is still adamant, take out the tubes. Living in a condition needing a breathing tube AND terminally ill means it is not suicide to remove the tube.
 
2012-10-05 07:57:56 AM  

octopied: Tell her to wait a few days and really think it over, if she is still adamant, take out the tubes.


Erm, she's had that tumor for a whole year and has been paralyzed for a month. Also "Speaking on behalf of Ms Lee, Dr Dana Lustbader testified that the patient 'consistently asks that her breathing tube be removed.'" (FTFA).

I'd say she's already had enough day to think it over, wouldn't you agree?
 
2012-10-05 08:14:48 AM  
I'm really curious if all the people who claim "God has a plan! You'll get better!" will apologize when she finally dies after months or years of paralysis and mental agony from her situation.
 
2012-10-05 08:18:44 AM  
So glad I have a living will to dictate what happens in these situations.
Not so glad I made my twin brother the 'man in charge' of the living will.

/he unplugs things in my house and calls it 'practice'
 
2012-10-05 08:20:58 AM  
Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.
 
2012-10-05 08:23:48 AM  

Bhruic: EmmaLou: What selfish parents. I know it must be hard to see her like that, but imagine being her and having to have such stress and drama at the end of your life :( is this really how these people want to end the time they have with her...a court battle?

It's not selfish. It's stupid, but it's not selfish. They legitimately believe that if they let her get the tube removed, she'll burn in hell. Now I personally think that's idiotic, but if you believe it to be true, then preventing her from doing it would be the correct thing to do.


No, it's stupid, not legitimate. I am honestly certain that someone who beats them until they give in will keep THEM from going to hell.

There is nowhere in the Bible that you have an obligation to torture someone to keep them alive, even if that person is yourself.

These people are sick, selfish, and evil.
 
2012-10-05 08:23:53 AM  
It really is true.

We will never, as a species, achieve our great potential until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
 
2012-10-05 08:27:59 AM  

Nezu Chiza: months or years of paralysis and mental agony


Duh! Months and years of paralysis and mental agony IS part of his plan.

/fark you, fundies
 
2012-10-05 08:38:40 AM  

SpacemanSpoof: Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.


Shows how much of a true christian you are... a REAL christian wouldn't take a loved one to the devil's alter and have satan's priests treat him for cancer... they would turn to JAAAAYSUS and pray the cancer away...
 
2012-10-05 08:44:52 AM  

SpacemanSpoof: Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.


It is the internet. Anti-thiests (mostly Christian hating psuedo-intellectuals) are like starving hyenas waiting for a story like this so they can run in cackling and gnashing teeth. But welcome to the internet anyway!
 
2012-10-05 08:52:32 AM  
Doesn't Free Will allow her to make the choice?
 
2012-10-05 08:56:04 AM  
St Peter is standing next to the gate, looking at his watch. "Damn. Another one. They look for every way to avoid coming here. No matter. They get here sooner or later."
 
2012-10-05 09:03:10 AM  

kicksmile: SpacemanSpoof: Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.


It is the internet. Anti-thiests (mostly Christian hating psuedo-intellectuals) are like starving hyenas waiting for a story like this so they can run in cackling and gnashing teeth. But welcome to the internet anyway!


Oh, I'm no newbie... I was going toe-to-toe with anti-theists online when Fark was just a big-nutted squirrel. Of course, those were the more civilized days when people actually debated rather than just spewing hate at each other. (lawn, off, etc.) :)

It just seems that the hate is particularly strong with this thread for some reason, that's all.
 
2012-10-05 09:10:52 AM  
photos.upi.com 

ah the memories
 
2012-10-05 09:11:49 AM  

kicksmile: SpacemanSpoof: Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.


It is the internet. Anti-thiests (mostly Christian hating psuedo-intellectuals) are like starving hyenas waiting for a story like this so they can run in cackling and gnashing teeth. But welcome to the internet anyway!


These people are torturing their daughter because they believe that magic is real ... and we are the bad guys?!?

Fark you and your magic bullshiat ... this person is suffering and begging to have the man-made intervention stopped. This has nothing to do with magic or god or any other imaginary crap.

She has rights and these selfish, stupid people are denying them.
 
2012-10-05 09:14:45 AM  

SpacemanSpoof: kicksmile: SpacemanSpoof: Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.


It is the internet. Anti-thiests (mostly Christian hating psuedo-intellectuals) are like starving hyenas waiting for a story like this so they can run in cackling and gnashing teeth. But welcome to the internet anyway!

Oh, I'm no newbie... I was going toe-to-toe with anti-theists online when Fark was just a big-nutted squirrel. Of course, those were the more civilized days when people actually debated rather than just spewing hate at each other. (lawn, off, etc.) :)

It just seems that the hate is particularly strong with this thread for some reason, that's all.


What I don't understand is why the wishes of an adult are being trumped by other adults.

Parents or not, she is way past 18 and should be able to decide her own fate.
 
2012-10-05 09:16:06 AM  
When you are admitted into the hospital with a potentially life threatening pathology, ask to speak to a social worker, clergy person of your choice, or hell, even your doctor. Tell them flat out the extent of life prolonging measures you would be OK with. If this is not something you are familiar with, ask a nurse or a physician about end of life treatment. It is your right as a patient, and while you may not get answers immediately, you should get them in a timely manner.
Verbally, or in writing if you have the capacity, give your advanced care directive to your physician in the presence of a family member, nurse, resident (whatever, just a witness).
Take a lesson from all this coverage of such incidents and do yourself a favour: draft an advanced care directive. Encourage your family to do the same. Discuss your decision with your family, and tell them in no uncertain term what your directive stipulates.
As a physician, I've had 'the talk' with several families of varying beliefs, and it inevitably comes down to 'What would the patient want?'. Your beliefs as a relative be damned (sorry), but my prima facie duty is to the patient, and any medical professional worth his or her salt will abide by the patient's directive either personally or through referral. I will do my best to counsel their loved ones, and clarify the situation to the best of my ability and their understanding, but I will not renege on my duty to my patients.
 
2012-10-05 09:23:09 AM  

SpacemanSpoof:

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.


My step-mother was in a similar situation about a 2 years ago now. Her lungs were so scarred that there was not way for her to beath without being induced into a coma and kept on a breathing machine. There is no cure for the scarring that ARDS did to her lungs.

But the doctor kept stringing my dad along for about 7 weeks or so saying that "you never know, miracles happen".

Bullshiat. The only miracle that can happen now is if my dad wins the lottery to pay off 7 weeks of ICU care.

As far as do now harm. Which is more harmful? Keeping a person alive against their wishes as they lie in pain and agony with no hope of recover, or letting them die peacefully?
 
2012-10-05 09:27:24 AM  

wingnut396: SpacemanSpoof:

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.

My step-mother was in a similar situation about a 2 years ago now. Her lungs were so scarred that there was not way for her to beath without being induced into a coma and kept on a breathing machine. There is no cure for the scarring that ARDS did to her lungs.

But the doctor kept stringing my dad along for about 7 weeks or so saying that "you never know, miracles happen".

Bullshiat. The only miracle that can happen now is if my dad wins the lottery to pay off 7 weeks of ICU care.

As far as do now harm. Which is more harmful? Keeping a person alive against their wishes as they lie in pain and agony with no hope of recover, or letting them die peacefully?


Nothing is more terrifying to folks than going to that glorious and beautiful great reward of perfection they pray and sing about every Sunday.
 
2012-10-05 09:40:28 AM  

phrenicmonkey: Ms Lee's mother, Jin-ah Lee, said: 'I keep telling her she can get better.'

I'm speechless.


I'm not a parent, but I can imagine that Mrs. Lee is probably so distraught due to her daughters condition and imminent death that she *wants* to believe that things can somehow turn around. Can't say I can really blame her or judge her either way for that
 
2012-10-05 09:45:58 AM  

sseye: No, it's stupid, not legitimate. I am honestly certain that someone who beats them until they give in will keep THEM from going to hell.

There is nowhere in the Bible that you have an obligation to torture someone to keep them alive, even if that person is yourself.

These people are sick, selfish, and evil.


There are plenty of things not in the bible that some Christians believe. Hell, the Catholic church has reams of stuff not in there. Among the things not in there that they believe is the suicide thing. Now you might not agree with that interpretation. You might not agree that what would be happening here is suicide. But if they believe it - which they do - then their belief is that they are saving her soul. What we think of what they are doing is irrelevant to their beliefs. So you might be able to claim sick and evil, but they aren't being selfish.
 
2012-10-05 09:54:21 AM  

kicksmile: SpacemanSpoof: Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.


It is the internet. Anti-thiests (mostly Christian hating psuedo-intellectuals) are like starving hyenas waiting for a story like this so they can run in cackling and gnashing teeth. But welcome to the internet anyway!


Grrr. Bark. Bark. Grrr.
 
2012-10-05 09:56:03 AM  

SpacemanSpoof: So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?


This is the most personal freedom of all. All other freedoms come from the personal freedom of controlling one's own life and body. Having someone else interject their principles or beliefs in a way that takes that freedom away should only be done when absolutely necessary, with as minimal intrusion as possible, and with oversight and transparency of the person who is exerting control.

If you oppose euthanasia on the basis of your philosophy, then fine. If you oppose euthanasia on the basis of your religion, good for you. If you take control of my body in order to impose your convictions or beliefs on me, then you're a no good son of a biatch, no matter how "moral" or "correct" those beliefs are.
 
2012-10-05 10:03:09 AM  

Bhruic: So you might be able to claim sick and evil, but they aren't being selfish.


Yes they are.

It is the victim's choice as to what religious beliefs she is going to follow and she either doesn't believe in magic or she doesn't believe that stopping man-made intervention is suicide. Either way the parents are selfishly overriding her choice!
 
2012-10-05 10:04:58 AM  

phyrkrakr: SpacemanSpoof: So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

This is the most personal freedom of all. All other freedoms come from the personal freedom of controlling one's own life and body. Having someone else interject their principles or beliefs in a way that takes that freedom away should only be done when absolutely necessary, with as minimal intrusion as possible, and with oversight and transparency of the person who is exerting control.

If you oppose euthanasia on the basis of your philosophy, then fine. If you oppose euthanasia on the basis of your religion, good for you. If you take control of my body in order to impose your convictions or beliefs on me, then you're a no good son of a biatch, no matter how "moral" or "correct" those beliefs are.


Ah, my point exactly. My grandfather made his wishes very clear, and it was obvious to anyone with a brain that he wasn't going to get better. But still, except for a few family members, everyone involved tried to hang on as long as possible in complete defiance of his instructions, for whatever reasons they could contrive. In the end, does it really matter what each person's rationalization was?
 
2012-10-05 10:07:21 AM  

wingnut396: SpacemanSpoof:

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.

My step-mother was in a similar situation about a 2 years ago now. Her lungs were so scarred that there was not way for her to beath without being induced into a coma and kept on a breathing machine. There is no cure for the scarring that ARDS did to her lungs.

But the doctor kept stringing my dad along for about 7 weeks or so saying that "you never know, miracles happen".

Bullshiat. The only miracle that can happen now is if my dad wins the lottery to pay off 7 weeks of ICU care.

As far as do now harm. Which is more harmful? Keeping a person alive against their wishes as they lie in pain and agony with no hope of recover, or letting them die peacefully?


I think you hit the nail on the head. They have to pay for the machine that goes "BING".
 
2012-10-05 10:09:14 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Damn. I can't handle all these "Stupid Events in Religion" posts in such quick succession.

All Your religion is bad and you should feel bad and stop doing it.


If faith can move mountains, why can't I bury a church?
 
2012-10-05 10:12:48 AM  
Sadly, I can picture my girlfriend's parents doing this. They're deeply evangelical-Christian. Fortunately, she, as a product of that Ebil Secular Hoomanist Edumacation, has dumped the religion of her childhood.

I need to point her at this story as a prompt for her to get a living will drawn up, in case she ends up in the unfortunate circumstance the woman in TFA is in. She doesn't talk to her parents much any more but if push came to shove they're her next of kin and are legally the people who would be making decisions regarding her health care if she were unable to make her wishes known. I'm pretty certain she's miles apart from them on this, like she is on most controversial issues involving morality or ethics.
 
2012-10-05 10:14:09 AM  

You Are All Sheep:

I think you hit the nail on the head. They have to pay for the machine that goes "BING".


You know, a small, jaded part of me thinks that way, but the really, that can't be the case. My step mom worked for a doctor that was associated with the hospital and the ICU doc and the ENT she worked for knew each other very well. They simply can't make money from people that don't have it, no matter how much debt they leverage against an estate that has nothing.

I think this doc did really want to help, but in combination with my Dad's denial of the situation and any glimmer of hope, it kept going on for far to long IMO.
 
2012-10-05 10:17:00 AM  
I'm baffled why people who are convinced that they are going to this "heaven" place, are uniformly afraid to die. Is it possible that they aren't truly certain?
 
2012-10-05 10:20:37 AM  

natazha: I'm baffled why people who are convinced that they are going to this "heaven" place, are uniformly afraid to die. Is it possible that they aren't truly certain?


4.bp.blogspot.com 

I he actually believed he'd be happy to be taken out by some nut-job.
 
2012-10-05 10:22:50 AM  

You Are All Sheep: wingnut396: SpacemanSpoof:

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.

My step-mother was in a similar situation about a 2 years ago now. Her lungs were so scarred that there was not way for her to beath without being induced into a coma and kept on a breathing machine. There is no cure for the scarring that ARDS did to her lungs.

But the doctor kept stringing my dad along for about 7 weeks or so saying that "you never know, miracles happen".

Bullshiat. The only miracle that can happen now is if my dad wins the lottery to pay off 7 weeks of ICU care.

As far as do now harm. Which is more harmful? Keeping a person alive against their wishes as they lie in pain and agony with no hope of recover, or letting them die peacefully?

I think you hit the nail on the head. They have to pay for the machine that goes "BING".


As a nurse who spent many years working ICU, let me tell you how absolutely farking stupid you are. The goal of the ICU is to stabilize critically ill people, it is not to pay for machines that go "bing". If people don't meet the criteria, they are sent to other floors/units. There is not a practicing nurse or doctor who would let a terminal patient lie there and suffer to make money. Only a really sick fark would even conceive of something that evil. We know when it's time to let go, you farking imbeciles who are too afraid of offending god or great aunt margaret are what continues their suffering, not us. You farking lackwit.
 
2012-10-05 10:38:14 AM  

Bender The Offender: You Are All Sheep: wingnut396: SpacemanSpoof:

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.

My step-mother was in a similar situation about a 2 years ago now. Her lungs were so scarred that there was not way for her to beath without being induced into a coma and kept on a breathing machine. There is no cure for the scarring that ARDS did to her lungs.

But the doctor kept stringing my dad along for about 7 weeks or so saying that "you never know, miracles happen".

Bullshiat. The only miracle that can happen now is if my dad wins the lottery to pay off 7 weeks of ICU care.

As far as do now harm. Which is more harmful? Keeping a person alive against their wishes as they lie in pain and agony with no hope of recover, or letting them die peacefully?

I think you hit the nail on the head. They have to pay for the machine that goes "BING".

As a nurse who spent many years working ICU, let me tell you how absolutely farking stupid you are. The goal of the ICU is to stabilize critically ill people, it is not to pay for machines that go "bing". If people don't meet the criteria, they are sent to other floors/units. There is not a practicing nurse or doctor who would let a terminal patient lie there and suffer to make money. Only a really sick fark would even conceive o ...


I sure hope this doesn't group me in with the "lackwits" - but there are many doctors and nurses out there that will keep the machines on to make money. There are many doctors out there that will prescribe drugs to people who don't need them. There are nurses out there that kill their patients on purpose. There are pharmacists that cut drugs in half (to save money) knowing full well the patient will die. There are doctors and nurses that have sex with their comatose patients. Do you not read the news outsdie of Fark? As much as you think we live in a perfect world, we don't. Doctors and nurses are people and people can be assholes.
 
2012-10-05 10:44:32 AM  

Bender The Offender: You Are All Sheep: wingnut396: SpacemanSpoof:

So let me see if I understand this... If a doctor opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held philosophical belief (do no harm), he's making a logical, rational argument. If a Christian opposes euthanasia because of a deeply held religious belief (sanctity of life), he's a crazy inbred derpbeast?

For the record, my grandfather was in just such a situation about a year ago. Even though he had a living will stating that he didn't want any kind of life support when his time came, the doctors refused to move him to a hospice because they couldn't provide the same level of oxygen that the hospital did. The family argued for a while about whether or not the breathing tube counted as life support, but he settled the argument by dying that very day.

My step-mother was in a similar situation about a 2 years ago now. Her lungs were so scarred that there was not way for her to beath without being induced into a coma and kept on a breathing machine. There is no cure for the scarring that ARDS did to her lungs.

But the doctor kept stringing my dad along for about 7 weeks or so saying that "you never know, miracles happen".

Bullshiat. The only miracle that can happen now is if my dad wins the lottery to pay off 7 weeks of ICU care.

As far as do now harm. Which is more harmful? Keeping a person alive against their wishes as they lie in pain and agony with no hope of recover, or letting them die peacefully?

I think you hit the nail on the head. They have to pay for the machine that goes "BING".

As a nurse who spent many years working ICU, let me tell you how absolutely farking stupid you are. The goal of the ICU is to stabilize critically ill people, it is not to pay for machines that go "bing". If people don't meet the criteria, they are sent to other floors/units. There is not a practicing nurse or doctor who would let a terminal patient lie there and suffer to make money. Only a really sick fark would even conceive o ...


Good God woman, you're going to have an aneurysm. Yes, it sucks that health care providers are portrayed as bad guys, but come on, if I got used to it within a year, surely someone of your experience can shake it off.

I mean, the guy feels put out, but probably also realizes that is expertise over pathology and disease process does not match the doctor's. He also probably recognizes that he's missing something, or is the victim of miscommunication, but he needs to assign blame to feel better. So, let him (or her) assign it where he or she sees fit. His vitriol isn't going to affect any health care professional, however, your particular brand of condescension will just play into his or her perception of persecution.

Oh, and in case, I wasn't clear, You Are All Sheep, your cynicism has given way to a persecution complex. A nonsensical one at that. Spaceman Spoof, I truly am sorry for your loss, and it sucks that you feel you were led on, but I think you need to acknowledge that deeper understanding of disease process and intervention is a more likely explanation to the doctor's course of action than malice. We aren't all bastards. As a matter of fact, the majority of us give two shiats about our patients and their well being. Sometimes, we can't communicate the rationale behind our decisions because of the complexity of the situation...and while platitudes like 'miracles can happen' don't help, please understand that sometimes the situation is probably beyond your understanding. I don't know the particulars of your relatives case, but I really do hope and think that there is something more to the situation.
 
2012-10-05 10:48:53 AM  

Farking Canuck: kicksmile: SpacemanSpoof: Wow, the anti-Christians are out in force today.


It is the internet. Anti-thiests (mostly Christian hating psuedo-intellectuals) are like starving hyenas waiting for a story like this so they can run in cackling and gnashing teeth. But welcome to the internet anyway!

These people are torturing their daughter because they believe that magic is real ... and we are the bad guys?!?

Fark you and your magic bullshiat ... this person is suffering and begging to have the man-made intervention stopped. This has nothing to do with magic or god or any other imaginary crap.

She has rights and these selfish, stupid people are denying them.


You are everything that is wrong with anti-theists. And thank you for confirming my post.
 
2012-10-05 10:55:19 AM  

kicksmile: You are everything that is wrong with anti-theists. And thank you for confirming my post.


a) I am not anti-theist ... I am atheist.
b) I am anti-religion as I recognize it for the snake-oil that it is.

Most importantly, I am against religious people inflicting their bullshiat on to others.

Losing your respect does not bother me in the least ... you are defending people who are torturing this poor woman. That is sick and twisted.
 
2012-10-05 10:58:19 AM  
I'm trying to figure out how the parents have any standing here.

The daughter is an adult. She told the doctors what she wanted. End of story.

I saw no mention of them having protective custody, power of attorney, or having filed a restraining order, etc. Perhaps the article left it out but once you are adult they don't have any more legal standing to make decisions for her than I do.

And I'd pull the plug on her if that was her wish. And I'd expect any Farker to do the same for me.
 
2012-10-05 11:18:20 AM  

WhoGAS: I had to help kill my dad this year (on my birthday) and then a few months later, on my vacation, I had to help my mom and family decide to let my grandmother go as well. While that was going on, my aunt died alone because we were all at the other hospital.

I believe that a person should have the right to decide when and how they die. What I've seen this year is deplorable behavior by medical "professionals" who care only for the bottom line. This woman's decision should be respected.


Stay the F*ck away from me..
 
2012-10-05 11:33:43 AM  
Oh, Jesus. It's this decade's Teri Schiavo, except this woman probably didn't cause herself to contract brain cancer -- Teri most likely caused her own condition by starving herself.

How long until Congress gets involved?
 
2012-10-05 12:20:59 PM  
As a practicing Chirstian (Go ahead and flame on), I believe the parents views are very selfish. There is no sin in death. When it is your time, it is time. Let the daughter go in peace. Please?
 
2012-10-05 01:13:04 PM  
I'm not sure if this has been addressed already, but if she is a legal adult and fully conscious why would her parents' wishes have any bearing on her care?

For people thinking the conflict is purely driven by religious motives (while ignoring grief and differences in culture as equally, if not greater, contributing factors), we all have some type of culture/belief system/ethics that determines our action and reaction to events in our lives. Sometimes those actions conflict with the actions of others, especially in emotionally charged situation as impending death of a family member. And I'd bet similar situations happen every day in hospitals across the country. That's why hospitals have ethics committees.
 
2012-10-05 01:14:44 PM  
my grandmother had a Do Not Resuscitate order on file. she was in the hospital for a week alert and happy. when her heart finally gave out, my mother had to remind the hospital staff about the DNR. that had to be extremely difficult for her to do, but she and my dad watched as g-ma slowly slipped away... with quiet dignity. the same way she lived her life.

/my 2 cents
 
2012-10-05 01:46:34 PM  

Farking Canuck: Bhruic: So you might be able to claim sick and evil, but they aren't being selfish.

Yes they are.

It is the victim's choice as to what religious beliefs she is going to follow and she either doesn't believe in magic or she doesn't believe that stopping man-made intervention is suicide. Either way the parents are selfishly overriding her choice!


Ok, do I really need to post the definition of selfish? To be selfish, the parents would have to be acting in their own interests. What do they gain by extending their daughter's torment? Nothing. There is no gain for them - whether they are correct in their beliefs or not. So by definition, they can't be acting selfishly.

What they are doing is all sorts of wrong, but let's label it the wrong it is, rather than trying to make it wrongs it isn't.
 
2012-10-05 01:52:18 PM  
Suicide? If it hadn't been for all the plumbing the hospital put into this poor woman she'd be dead already. 100 years ago she might have made it only a few months before dying of "consumption" or whatever they called cancer back then, doped up on morphine.

My stepsister died from cancer a few years ago, and letting her go was the hardest thing her mother (a deaconess at her southern baptist church) had ever done. She had been diagnosed with lupus as an early teen (go ahead with the "it's not lupus" jokes - welcome to FARK) and had to deal with hospital stay after hospital stay, kidney transplants and other horrendous sh*t that I don't know I could have endured. Then there was the cancer that came back again and again and again. Finally after her umpteenth round of chemo she said "fark all this sh*t, let me go. I'm done". Her mother, who had gone through all this with her, agreed, and all treatment was stopped. The docs gave her enough painkillers to put down an entire herd of rhino, and her family was at her side when she passed away, laughing and talking and spending the hours she had left. She cussed like a drunken sailor when she was high.

She died one month shy of her 40th birthday.

I understand her parents want to keep her around, because they're her parents. But this religious fanaticism is bullsh*t. If they really loved her they would let her go rather than see her suffer.

/reason 1,987,564 why I hate the f*ck out of religion
//not faith, but religion
 
2012-10-05 01:52:42 PM  
Religion is really given too much power in this country. The patient wants it ended, her doctors say she's lucid, and the doctors don't seem to think she will get better. Why is her parents' opinion important again? Oh wait, because other people agree with them based on what they think a 2000 year old book says when it at best only metaphorically touches upon the situation.

When my brother was in his last days, it's possible that a breathing tube could have extended his life. He was in the end stages of leukemia, so probably not very much extra life, but an outside shot. The doctors advised against a breathing tube because of the possible legal implications of removing it later. He agreed he wanted no heroic measures, as did my parents. I've always resented that the possible intrusion of fundies denied him one last shot. He was 25.

Religion is theoretically fine, but in many ways it seems like a virus. It just can't be kept to oneself way, way too often. It's often touted as a system of morality, but more often it seems like a set of loopholes to justify emotional or just bad thinking.

\happy friday?
 
2012-10-05 01:57:07 PM  

Bhruic: Ok, do I really need to post the definition of selfish? To be selfish, the parents would have to be acting in their own interests. What do they gain by extending their daughter's torment? Nothing. There is no gain for them - whether they are correct in their beliefs or not. So by definition, they can't be acting selfishly.


And for some reason you cannot see how inflicting their religion on someone else is selfish.

They are making themselves happy by thinking that they are helping her into heaven. They are torturing here to achieve this goal.

She explicitly does not want it ... they are not helping her.

Again ... this is making the parents feel better and causing her to suffer horribly. It is 100% selfish.
 
2012-10-05 02:03:24 PM  
The article doesn't clearly state that there is no hope for recovery -- or else I missed it but I assume, from the details, there is none.

Most people tend to forget that a paralyzed person usually has no feeling from the neck down. Some do, but most don't. Christopher Reeves had no feeling from the neck down.

Nothing works.

This means they can't control their bladder or bowels. They can't move their arms or legs and can't feel anything that happens to them. They can't scratch an itch. Can't use a TV remote. No sex. (1: no feeling there, 2: nothing works.) The majority require breathing assistance because without it, they'll suffocate. The automatic muscles which control the breathing no longer work.

I don't know if they can feel suffocation when it begins.

Most of the time, they lay alone in a room, with a TV on, accompanied by assorted machines that keep them alive. Food is usually delivered via naselgastric tube through the nose and into the stomach. Sometimes, a line is surgically inserted into the stomach through the abdominal wall.

Often this is done to prevent chocking, a danger when eating solid food and when the chest muscles no longer have the strength to cough the stuff out.

Interaction is limited. You just get to lay there, doing nothing, hour after hour, day after day.

Christopher Reeves found a purpose to keep himself going. Most don't. Treatment is tremendously expensive and many insurance companies have a set limit as to how much they'll pay out.

The person is susceptive to pneumonia, chest colds, bed sores, muscle atrophy and contractions. Basically, they can shrivel up, and the limbs twist into odd positions unless care is taken. Unused muscles loose mass. Tendons shrink.

They'll need a urinary, indwelling catheter, which will leave them prone to bladder infections, that can turn into kidney infections. They'll need to be physically moved and rolled every so many hours to keep their skin from breaking down where it touches the bed. They'll have to be cleaned by hand even with diapers. (For women, there's a little complication: the usually liquid feces, constrained by a diaper, makes it's way up into the vagina. This requires manual cleaning, can break down the membranes, cause vaginitis and a host of infections.)

An alternative is a colostomy, which requires surgery.
Young women will still have their period, meaning someone will have to take care of that. (Option: hysterectomy, which requires major surgery.)

However, the worst thing for most quadriplegics is NOT being able to interact. Just hours and hours of mind numbing solitude.

Personally, IMO, that's pure, unadulterated hell. The controversy over solitary confinement in prisons is a walk in the park compared to this. At least the prisoners can move about, feel things, eat real food, shout to each other and exchange messages and DO THINGS.

The psychological effects of this state, with insufficient stimulation, or even with stimulation, would naturally be major depression. Some people have just gone insane and delusional.

When there is no cure, no hope, I believe the person has the right to die. I also believe that Dr. Kevorkian's method was a lot more merciful than just removing breathing or feeding tubes and let them suffocate or starve to death.

With his method, the person just 'goes to sleep'. I suspect that the initial rush of the tranquilizer makes them feel good before passing out and they don't feel the heart stopping medication when it begins.
Something like Lethal Injection, only without the paralytic and activated by the person at a time of their choosing. It can be activated by a mouth switch. It's also IV drip, not pressurized injection.

Try and imagine the living hell this woman is in. Especially once the furor eases up, which it will in days or weeks, and less and less people come to visit her.

I think Kevorkian was ahead of his time. His device, IMO, is a lot better than letting them suffocate or starve to death and a whole lot quicker.

I understand the religious aspect, but some religions allow suicide. Plus, her folks need to consider what she is going through. From a vibrant, active, energetic life, to basically a head on a pillow in a small room.

BTW. Some patients can actually will themselves to die. This is rare, but real. It also helps if there is a no resuscitation order.
 
2012-10-05 02:11:40 PM  
Religious busy bodies are disgusting people. This is like someone denying you your rights because they staunchly believe Mother Goose stories are real.
 
2012-10-05 02:20:06 PM  

C18H27NO3: BoxOfBees: Beyond that I think we can be respectful enough of other cultures not to subject them to our own standards, even if they say stuff that's patently crazy, like the statement that removing a breathing tube is suicide.

Culture, sure. Irrationality not so much.
It's a shame this woman is unable to make the choice for herself. For all anyone knows she may want to just die and her family is doing her a disservice by not respecting that; albeit not knowing either way of course.


I'm really not sure why she's not able to make that call herself. Isn't she a legal adult? If the doctors say the meds aren't affecting her judgement, shouldn't she legally be the only person who can decide on her own medical care?
 
2012-10-05 02:32:22 PM  

swangoatman: WhoGAS: I had to help kill my dad this year (on my birthday) and then a few months later, on my vacation, I had to help my mom and family decide to let my grandmother go as well. While that was going on, my aunt died alone because we were all at the other hospital.

I believe that a person should have the right to decide when and how they die. What I've seen this year is deplorable behavior by medical "professionals" who care only for the bottom line. This woman's decision should be respected.

Stay the F*ck away from me..


I try to stay the F*CK away from everyone these days.

2012

Turn 40
Dad dies (in front of me on birthday)
Sister is admitted to hospice care as her health deteriorates due to previous meth use (2 days after my dad died)
Mom gets cancer (diagnosed while visiting on vacation)
Brother gets 15th DUI (while I was there on vacation)
Grandmother falls, breaks hip, neck and head and dies days later (yeah, vacation)
Aunt has a heart attack, dies in hospital across town while family was at grandma's hospital (vacation)
Divorce is final
Bankruptcy was filed

Looks like a horrible list but I got my kids, ex got the money. I have a decent job (for today), my bills are paid, my children are happy, my fridge is stocked with food and drink and I still have an ounce of bud sitting here.

My life is actually pretty damn good if you ask me...I just don't do vacations or birthdays any more. :o)
 
2012-10-05 02:59:15 PM  

WhoGAS: 2012

Turn 40
Dad dies (in front of me on birthday)
Sister is admitted to hospice care as her health deteriorates due to previous meth use (2 days after my dad died)
Mom gets cancer (diagnosed while visiting on vacation)
Brother gets 15th DUI (while I was there on vacation)
Grandmother falls, breaks hip, neck and head and dies days later (yeah, vacation)
Aunt has a heart attack, dies in hospital across town while family was at grandma's hospital (vacation)
Divorce is final
Bankruptcy was filed


Damn .... I thought I was having a bad year.

/at least there is the bright spot there with the divorce!
//kidding
///sorta
 
2012-10-05 03:10:58 PM  
Pulling the plug seems to be the first choice. Because giving up is easy, and all that 'hope' stuff requires too much effort.
 
2012-10-05 03:42:04 PM  

Saruman_W: Pulling the plug seems to be the first choice. Because giving up is easy, and all that 'hope' stuff requires too much effort.


Right ... so you better make the choice for them.

/you obviously know when the time is right!!
 
2012-10-05 03:48:59 PM  

Another Government Employee: As a practicing Chirstian (Go ahead and flame on)


Ah, yes, the Chirstians... You're the guys that worship Jeuss Chirst, right? And your holy Bibel has old and new Tesatments (for former ripped off the Jwes)?

/What, a spelling flame was the best I could muster...
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-10-05 04:01:41 PM  

WhoGAS: swangoatman: WhoGAS: I had to help kill my dad this year (on my birthday) and then a few months later, on my vacation, I had to help my mom and family decide to let my grandmother go as well. While that was going on, my aunt died alone because we were all at the other hospital.

I believe that a person should have the right to decide when and how they die. What I've seen this year is deplorable behavior by medical "professionals" who care only for the bottom line. This woman's decision should be respected.

Stay the F*ck away from me..

I try to stay the F*CK away from everyone these days.

2012

Turn 40
Dad dies (in front of me on birthday)
Sister is admitted to hospice care as her health deteriorates due to previous meth use (2 days after my dad died)
Mom gets cancer (diagnosed while visiting on vacation)
Brother gets 15th DUI (while I was there on vacation)
Grandmother falls, breaks hip, neck and head and dies days later (yeah, vacation)
Aunt has a heart attack, dies in hospital across town while family was at grandma's hospital (vacation)
Divorce is final
Bankruptcy was filed

Looks like a horrible list but I got my kids, ex got the money. I have a decent job (for today), my bills are paid, my children are happy, my fridge is stocked with food and drink and I still have an ounce of bud sitting here.

My life is actually pretty damn good if you ask me...I just don't do vacations or birthdays any more. :o)


You, sir, get the prize for understanding a basic tenet of life. PERSPECTIVE.
I applaud you. I salute you. I raise a glass in commiseration with you.
YOU GET IT. So many simply do not.

When all is done and said you have made an outstanding effort at life.
It has thrown nothing but curves, knuckles and bean-balls at you yet you get up, dust off, and make ready for another swing.

Good on you! And I really f-ing mean that, sincerely.

Here's hoping for brighter tomorrows for you and yours.
 
2012-10-05 04:49:32 PM  

gja: You, sir, get the prize for understanding a basic tenet of life. PERSPECTIVE.
I applaud you. I salute you. I raise a glass in commiseration with you.
YOU GET IT. So many simply do not.

When all is done and said you have made an outstanding effort at life.
It has thrown nothing but curves, knuckles and bean-balls at you yet you get up, dust off, and make ready for another swing.

Good on you! And I really f-ing mean that, sincerely.

Here's hoping for brighter tomorrows for you and yours.



I don't mean to make this thread about me (I really don't, the girl in the article needs the respect and attention she deserves) but I did want to say that what you said is about the nicest thing someone's said to me in years. Thank you for that. It means a lot to hear it.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-10-05 05:25:49 PM  

WhoGAS: gja: You, sir, get the prize for understanding a basic tenet of life. PERSPECTIVE.
I applaud you. I salute you. I raise a glass in commiseration with you.
YOU GET IT. So many simply do not.

When all is done and said you have made an outstanding effort at life.
It has thrown nothing but curves, knuckles and bean-balls at you yet you get up, dust off, and make ready for another swing.

Good on you! And I really f-ing mean that, sincerely.

Here's hoping for brighter tomorrows for you and yours.


I don't mean to make this thread about me (I really don't, the girl in the article needs the respect and attention she deserves) but I did want to say that what you said is about the nicest thing someone's said to me in years. Thank you for that. It means a lot to hear it.


My point, for this thread, is this:
This body that they are maintaining so artificially has managed (against odds that make a wimp of most of us) to clearly make her wishes known.
And the people that have the unmitigated GALL and HUBRIS, the vanity of these people...!
They make me sick-up. They are abhorrent meddling farks.

This woman deserves the dignity which is due her. Let he go. Let her find her peace.
The peace that she has decided will only come with a release from life and the shackles of this existence.
If ANY of these people were TRULY Christian, they would grant her that. They are "Christian for the cameras", for show, for their vanity. For shame.
Even this poor woman, as messed up as she is, GETS IT! It is the quality of your life as YOU perceive it that matters, not anothers perception.
 
2012-10-06 07:09:23 PM  
This is why I strongly encourage everyone to have a clear living will prepared, because anyone can get hit by a bus or similarly severely and permanently impaired any day. And for those who don't have a clear and undisputed primary legal next-of-kin they feel entirely comfortable with, to also set up a Power of Attorney appropriate to their situation and anticipated needs. (Specifics will vary by state; consult an actual lawyer or other knowledgeable legal expert.) Because when your untestated case hits probate or some other legal filter, they're not going to be interviewing your lover and close friends: your legal kin get first shot at you, and can usually fend off everyone who actually knows you. Especially when it comes to issues of life and death, I can't stress enough how vital these preparations are.
 
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