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(NBC News)   Boy denied Eagle Scout status and has his Boy Scout membership revoked because he's gay. Boy Scouts of America -- Be Prepared (for teh ghays)   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 377
    More: Asinine, Eagle Scout, Boy Scouts of America, number of troops, stay-at-home mother, property management, mother said, NBC News, master status  
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7611 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Oct 2012 at 11:41 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-04 06:54:19 PM  
This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.
 
2012-10-04 07:03:46 PM  
When the Boy Scouts are joined at the hip with the Mormon Church, you know this is going to be the case. Plain and simple.
 
2012-10-04 07:07:33 PM  

Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.


All of this.

/Former Eagle Scout
//Completely disgusted with the way the organization is acting
 
2012-10-04 07:09:46 PM  
Looks like some Scout Council is not going to get a Diversity Merit Badge, plus they'll need to rewrite the oath Here's a start: honor, country, help other people at all times, morally, kind, friendly, brave  I'm sure they won't get to ever associate with Scouts from other countries either.
 
2012-10-04 07:30:13 PM  
I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..
 
2012-10-04 07:48:28 PM  
This same thing happened to me. Parents and church found out about teh gay a week before my board of review. Refused to recommend me for my Eagle.

/Damn Mormons.
 
2012-10-04 08:28:23 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.

All of this.

/Former Eagle Scout
//Completely disgusted with the way the organization is acting


All of those, equally disgusted.
 
2012-10-04 08:35:30 PM  
Can't one of you former Eagle Scouts design an anti-homophobic (or perhaps non-bigoted) merit badge and distribute it to those who qualify as a form of protest?

Sure, the BSA wouldn't recognize it, but if enough people wore that patch, it might send a powerful message.
 
2012-10-04 09:41:30 PM  
I do wonder what would happen if he came out AFTER he got the Eagle Scout award.
 
2012-10-04 09:47:08 PM  
The Cub Scouts was the gayest thing I've ever participated in, and I've been to gay marriage fundraisers that had musical theater performances.
 
2012-10-04 09:57:21 PM  

brap: The Cub Scouts was the gayest thing I've ever participated in, and I've been to gay marriage fundraisers that had musical theater performances.


The whole idea of sleeping in a cabin with a bunch of other dudes always has seemed a little gay to me.
 
2012-10-04 10:19:13 PM  

brap: The Cub Scouts was the gayest thing I've ever participated in, and I've been to gay marriage fundraisers that had musical theater performances.


The Cub Scouts was the gayest thing I've ever participated in, and I've done the food for a gay wedding reception.
 
2012-10-04 10:29:24 PM  
This was my experience in the Boy Scouts:
imageshack.us

As a teenager, I went to two meetings, then refused to go back.
 
2012-10-04 10:46:37 PM  
Wait.. I did the cub scout thing and a year of actual boy scouts before I told my parents that I'd rather play soccer and little league than filter water and shiat in the woods, and I haven't really thought about it since.

What's this about the Mormons?

/Honest question
 
2012-10-04 10:48:50 PM  
My seven year old son is a scout. The scouts here are absolutely nothing like the US version. My sons troop couldn't be any more accepting, they even refuse to do the whole god thing.

But then i read crap like this and I am reminded of its roots and I am ashamed that my son is involved in an organisation that pulls this sort of crap.
 
2012-10-04 10:54:58 PM  
I got kicked out of my Cub Scout troop because I kept trying to play the Door's "Light My Fire" on the church organ. 
 
:{
 
And I ALMOST had it you mather freaking Nazis.
 
2012-10-04 11:14:10 PM  
I participated in Camp Fire Girls in the 60's and 70's. I hear that they have changed to include everyone, I learned this from a gay male coworker.
Hmmm.
 
2012-10-04 11:28:48 PM  
fark these guys.

Next time I walk into a grocery store and they're trying to sell me popcorn I will say "sorry, I'm gay" and keep walking.

No need to be rude or anything, just no way I'm supporting them any more.
 
2012-10-04 11:29:47 PM  
A "tolerance wall" is some kind of f*&cking copout for an Eagle project. An eagle service project should involve at least 40 person-hours of work.

That said, screw the BSA and their intolerance.
 
2012-10-04 11:30:20 PM  

GleeUnit: What's this about the Mormons?


I have this same question.

I know that individual troops can be rather locally biased, so if you were in a heavily Mormon area, they might add "Be a good Mormon" to the activites, but that's not a universal "All Scouts Follow Mormonism" thing. The troop I was a part of was mostly Catholic with the rest being Presbyterian (and we met at a Lutheran church just for fun). Obtaining the religious award was a group activity (that we never actually finished), but they let us pick the one that was aligned with our religious affiliation rather than saying "You should also do the Mormon one" or something similar.
 
2012-10-04 11:41:24 PM  

snuff3r: My seven year old son is a scout. The scouts here are absolutely nothing like the US version. My sons troop couldn't be any more accepting, they even refuse to do the whole god thing.

But then i read crap like this and I am reminded of its roots and I am ashamed that my son is involved in an organisation that pulls this sort of crap.


There is no "US version" of the scouts.

The organization itself is structured to allow discrimination against atheists and homosexuals. Individual troops have to be complicit in order for that discrimination to actually take place. There are plenty of troops that welcome atheists and homosexuals. However, it is unfortunate that it just takes one douchebag on the troop committee to start f*cking things up.

My son loves Cub Scouting. I'll encourage him to continue in Boy Scouts because as far as I know, it's the only organization where activities largely organized and directed by the youths themselves (when done right and not involving a bunch of helicopter parents).
 
2012-10-04 11:45:06 PM  
It's a religious organization, people need to stop being surprised by this stuff.
Your boy will be better off in some heathenish group anyway.
 
2012-10-04 11:46:58 PM  
Just wait a decade and become a Scout Leader. Duh.
 
2012-10-04 11:47:59 PM  
I'm sure he was Clean, Brave, Thrifty, Helpful, Friendly, Kind, and Obedient. Maybe had a problem with the Reverent part of it with all the gay in the way.

/Don't remember this bullshiat as a scout
//Hope my son doesn't either
 
2012-10-04 11:49:00 PM  
They should change their name to Christian Scouts or something. If the organization won't expel scout masters who rape boys, but will expel a gay scout, then they should be open about their agenda, and maybe there can be a secular/sane scout organization in the future.

/Kicked out as a Weebalo for attracting bears to the camp
 
2012-10-04 11:49:12 PM  

snowjack: As a teenager, I went to two meetings, then refused to go back.


ytrewq.com
 
2012-10-04 11:52:48 PM  

Big Dave: /Kicked out as a Weebalo for attracting bears to the camp


Sounds like there's a story behind that.

/Heh, Weebalo.
//New funny name of the day
///Weebalo
 
2012-10-04 11:52:55 PM  
1. Don't you understand, guys? They have a tradition of excluding black people the gheyz. You can't honestly expect them to change now.
2. It's a private organization. Let the people vote with their feet and their dollars. We don't need the government stepping in here.
3. Look at all the good they have done in the world!
4. Oh great, another thing ruined because one sensitive kid had his feelings hurt. Next you'll be asking that they all get medals just for showing up, right?
5. Why don't we just leave it up to the states each troop to decide? My local troop is totally cool with black people the gheyz.

I really want to play the role of scumbag concerned apologist, but I'm too tired to pick a turd tonight. Please just pick one for me and respond to it.
 
2012-10-04 11:55:01 PM  
They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

/still, fark those guys
 
2012-10-04 11:55:50 PM  
media.caglecartoons.com
 
2012-10-04 11:56:34 PM  
As someone who has three of his former cubs becoming Eagle scouts next year, I and most scouts I deal with do not give a fark. Wait for the next generation of leadership.
 
2012-10-04 11:57:15 PM  
This is SOP for the Boy Scouts. They've done this in the past and haven't been penalized... thus they are doing it still.
 
2012-10-04 11:57:18 PM  

Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

/still, fark those guys


But do they have to make THIS rule?

In 2012? Really?
 
2012-10-04 11:57:34 PM  
I'm eyeing the Navigators in a local town (NavigatorsUSA), but I suspect it's gonna be a tiny tiny troupe.
 
2012-10-04 11:57:49 PM  
Those popcorn sales are a total ripoff. Way too expensive and the quality is nothing special.
 
2012-10-04 11:58:37 PM  
So... he joined an organization with a religious background, and then is shocked when it imposes a certain set of moral codes on its members? I thought Eagle Scouts were supposed to be smart.

Don't believe in what the Scouts believe? Then don't join. Go start a Gay Scouts group or something. You can probably even get some gub'mint money to support it since it's not religious and being gay is in fashion these days.
 
2012-10-04 11:58:56 PM  

Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

/still, fark those guys


Sure. Time to revoke their tax exempt status and federal funding.
 
2012-10-04 11:59:23 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

/still, fark those guys

But do they have to make THIS rule?

In 2012? Really?


If they can find justification in it, and won't get in trouble for it, they will do it.
 
2012-10-05 12:00:14 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

/still, fark those guys

But do they have to make THIS rule?

In 2012? Really?


I live in a state that overwhelmingly banned gay marriage. A majority of the US just doesn't like homosexuals. Give it another 10-20 years.
 
2012-10-05 12:00:48 AM  

timujin: I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..


Private organisation? You'd think so but no...

From The Ethical Spectacle website:

"When I first approached this subject, I thought the Boy Scouts of America was a private organization and had the right to set its own rules and make its own policies. I was perfectly willing to defend this right, even though I think their policies are wrong.

Then I checked out the Boy Scouts of America web page, http://www.bsa.scouting.org/index.htm. According to the Boy Scouts: "The purpose of the Boy Scouts of America, incorporated on February 8, 1910, and chartered by Congress in 1916, is to provide an educational program for boys and young adults to build character, to train in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and to develop personal fitness."

So I now know that the organization is "chartered by Congress", i.e. the organization has the express support and approval of Congress. Any organization that discriminates or otherwise exhibits prejudice should not have Congressional endorsement. If the Boy Scouts choose to claim that they are a totally private organization, they should request that Congress rescind that charter. Congress should no more charter the Boy Scouts than it should charter the Ku Klux Klan.

It gets worse. Quoting again from the Boy Scouts' Web site, "Financial resources for the local council (the local nonprofit corporation chartered by the National Council) come from local United Ways, Sustaining Members, foundations, special events, project sales, investment income, trust funds, bequests, and gifts of real and personal property." So while some of the funds for the Boy Scouts come from dues and fees paid by members and their families, a large percentage of these funds are paid by taxpayers."

I'm wondering if this will end in substantial legal proceedings down the track.
 
2012-10-05 12:00:49 AM  
There's also Campfire. I don't have any experience with any of these organizations, so I dunno how big/good they are.
 
2012-10-05 12:00:50 AM  

Aidan: I'm eyeing the Navigators in a local town (NavigatorsUSA), but I suspect it's gonna be a tiny tiny troupe.


That looks pretty great.
 
2012-10-05 12:00:59 AM  
Another Eagle Scout revulsed by the modern BSA
 
2012-10-05 12:01:03 AM  
Daddy beat me with a hose. Kicked out of the Webelos.
 
2012-10-05 12:01:03 AM  
pfft. I learned about woodlore the old fashioned way, not from an effeminate yet anti-gay scoutmaster.
 
2012-10-05 12:01:36 AM  
I'm glad the Unitarians told them to fark off a few years ago. One of the few religious institutions I still have any respect for nowadays.
 
2012-10-05 12:02:04 AM  

brap: The Cub Scouts was the gayest thing I've ever participated in, and I've been to gay marriage fundraisers that had musical theater performances.


i got kicked out of the boy scouts because i've got a greek last name.

/the skirt and fake eyelashes probably didn't help.
 
2012-10-05 12:02:20 AM  
They're just not sure if he shouldn't have been a brownie
 
2012-10-05 12:03:25 AM  
Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.
 
2012-10-05 12:04:53 AM  

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.


Newsletter, etc.
 
2012-10-05 12:05:37 AM  
Your powers of retention, are as wet as a warthog's backside

Thick as you are, pay attention, even you can't be caught unaware

BE PREPARED!
 
2012-10-05 12:05:41 AM  

reaperducer: Don't believe in what the Scouts believe? Then don't join.


I thought the Scouts believed in covering up tens of thousands of instances of child rape. Simply "not joining" doesn't seem to be enough of a response.
 
2012-10-05 12:07:08 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

/still, fark those guys

But do they have to make THIS rule?

In 2012? Really?


Again, it's a religious organization. If it modernized it's no longer religious.
 
2012-10-05 12:07:40 AM  

DrPainMD: No different from groups that are only open to gays.


Which of these cover up for their child rapist members?
Catholic Church
Boy Scouts of America
Log Cabin Republicans

/right... no difference...
 
2012-10-05 12:09:07 AM  
Stop joining organizations like this, stop supporting organizations that support them. When people join them, donate money to them, buy goods that support them, etc. it tells them that people approve of their policies

Even if a boycott doesn't hurt them or does't cause them to change their ways, it's still better then supporting an organization that behaves like this.
 
2012-10-05 12:09:20 AM  
And now the BSA will never get any money or support from me. I'm ashamed that I was ever part of that organization.
 
2012-10-05 12:09:26 AM  
A Scout is:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent. 

"Straight" notably absent......
 
2012-10-05 12:09:37 AM  
He has a really cool uniform and he's 17 and gay so he won't have any trouble joining an alternative organization. NAMBLA is still recruiting and would take him in an instant. I'm just not sure if they'd bring him back.
 
2012-10-05 12:09:50 AM  
Everybody just needs to calm down and use a little common sense. The "Boy Scouts Of America" should be allowed to continue business as usual as long as they incorperate a new division of their group, called "The Sissy Boys Of America". Instead of teaching them survival skills they would teach them how to suck d*ck and make samiches.
 
2012-10-05 12:09:50 AM  

Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.


This. And me too.
 
2012-10-05 12:10:02 AM  

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.



Except most kids that make it egal start scouts in 2nd grade long before they think about sex at all so it's not a matter of not joining if your gay its them kicking out someone who worked 9 years
 
2012-10-05 12:10:31 AM  

Cheesus: Gyrfalcon: Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

/still, fark those guys

But do they have to make THIS rule?

In 2012? Really?

I live in a state that overwhelmingly banned gay marriage. A majority of the US just doesn't like homosexuals. Give it another 10-20 years.


So I guess by the same logic they can ban blacks, browns, reds, poors, retards...and nobody will care because they're a private organization and they've got a good reason for it, right? Just wait another X amount of years?

People suck. I'm moving to Mars.
 
2012-10-05 12:10:51 AM  
Tom Lehrer is a favorite of mine around christmas
 
2012-10-05 12:12:49 AM  

DrPainMD: I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join.


I have another great idea: Don't try to take organizations that were established to accept, bolster and encourage youngsters from vastly different backgrounds to share common and noble codes and ideal, to be self-reliant leaders and fine citizens, and turn them into hateful taxpayer-supported bigoted religious propaganda mills.

Just a thought, you goddam dicks.
 
2012-10-05 12:13:04 AM  

The Saturday Night Massacre: A Scout is:

Friendly,
Unique,
Courteous,
Kind,
Youthful,
Obedient,
United,
Ready,
Knowledgeable,
Intelligent,
Dutiful, and
Smart. 

 
2012-10-05 12:13:18 AM  
Could this be a little more poorly written? I was able to get most of what it was trying to say, but it was an annoying read. And now I'm also convinced that a lot of jobless people were editors just a few years ago.
 
2012-10-05 12:13:44 AM  
I'm sure this kid knew the consequences of coming out of the closet. He stood up in the face of bigotry and announced to the world he is a homosexual. He's proven he's stronger and more confident than any Eagle Scout. Good for him for not being intimidated by some antiquated organization from the early 20th century. If I could give him his Eagle Scout badge, I would.
 
2012-10-05 12:14:03 AM  

Theaetetus: The Saturday Night Massacre: A Scout is:

Friendly,
Unique,
Courteous,
Kind,
Youthful,
Obedient,
United,
Ready,
Knowledgeable,
Intelligent,
Dutiful, and
Smart.


But only the girls, right?
 
2012-10-05 12:14:16 AM  
And as members of this private organization (assuming a few other here are) we can continue to talk shiat, openly discuss in the community why we despise what they are doing, donate money to groups opposed to their stupid bigotry, and steer others towards organizations that are not child hating monsters. I realize you are just trolling but your point is made well, assuming these farkers were trying to join the Boy Scouts.


I do not turn my card so that I can actively represent myself in my community as an Eagle Scout who thinks the Boy Scouts have become a private hate group instead of the upstanding organization it once was.

All my Scoutmasters told me to lie about the whole stupid god thing. All of them. In two different troops. As a teenager, that is when I learned adults, even the ones I look up to, lie all the time in important situations.

Discrimination, public or private, is a big deal.
 
2012-10-05 12:14:46 AM  
Read this and compare how many of these are homosexual vs heterosexual occurrences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_sex_abuse_cases
I'm sorry, but older men on boys does bring bad attention down on homosexuality.
You can say it's not the same thing, but same gender on same gender fits the definition.
I don't mean to upset anyone, but I refuse to ignore reality just because it is hurtful or not how I wish.
 
2012-10-05 12:15:10 AM  

pedrop357: Theaetetus: The Saturday Night Massacre: A Scout is:

Friendly,
Unique,
Courteous,
Kind,
Youthful,
Obedient,
United,
Ready,
Knowledgeable,
Intelligent,
Dutiful, and
Smart.

But only the girls, right?


If you're a scout leader, the boys too.
 
2012-10-05 12:15:38 AM  
This is a private organization that is allowed to regulate it's membership. If you disagree with their views on homosexuality don't join. I don't understand why a gay kid would join anyway.
 
2012-10-05 12:15:40 AM  

AbbeySomeone: I participated in Camp Fire Girls in the 60's and 70's. I hear that they have changed to include everyone, I learned this from a gay male coworker.
Hmmm.


Holy cats, I thought I was the only one who'd ever been a Campfire Girl. In 40 years, you're literally the second Campfire Girl (outside of the 8 girls in my troop) I've ever met. I think my mother enrolled me because they met at our church and she was too lazy to find a Girl Scout troop.

4 years later, the den mother who ran my troop moved & a Girl Scout troop started at the church. My sister belonged to that.

/I think I only got as high as Bluejay or something--whatever was the 2nd level--before the den mother moved. Really can't remember
 
2012-10-05 12:16:13 AM  
Private organization. Right or wrong (I think it is wrong), they can do what they want.

What is to stop gay (or GTLB) adult mentors and gay (or GTLB) teens from starting their OWN scouting organization? To busy whining?
 
2012-10-05 12:16:16 AM  

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy ScoutsThe KKK isn't open to gaysblacks. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gaysblacks. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.


How does that sound? Sure, I and many support the right of the KKK to exist, we also are enraged when they do something showing blatant bigotry.
You don't see why people would be upset about it? As noted by others (and in TFA), this kid started at a very young age, well before he knew he was gay. From the sounds of it, he would have received the Eagle Scout he so deserved by meeting all written requirements if he had been with another troop or in another part of the country. You don't see why people don't think this is right? This is an organization for kids -- why the heck does sexual orientation have anything to do with it? Is the Boy Scouts of America banning homosexual teens or not?
 
2012-10-05 12:16:31 AM  
I wish they could freeze my body for 100 years and then I can wake up and live out my life after all the religious bigots have died off. We might have flying cars by then too.
 
2012-10-05 12:17:14 AM  
For the record, I support peoples right to be gay.. if that does it for you, good for you.

HOWEVER... you cant deny the elephant in the room in regards to gay scout masters/elders. While it sucks to paint innocent gays with such a tainted brush, I can understand the concerns of parents with leaving their children under the supervision of gay adults who actively seek interaction with little boys. Its just... sketchy. The boy scouts of america have an image to keep up, and saying "leave your little boy with gay uncle jimmy!" just leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths.

I'm not homophobic.. but theres just certain things people wont be comfortable with, and this is one of them. The risk of damaging the reputation of the boy scouts in the same fashion as the Catholic church is too large for them to bear, and I understand.

I'm not saying its right... but I understand.
 
2012-10-05 12:17:41 AM  

WxGuy1: DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy ScoutsThe KKK isn't open to gaysblacks. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gaysblacks. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.

How does that sound? Sure, I and many support the right of the KKK to exist, we also are enraged when they do something showing blatant bigotry.
You don't see why people would be upset about it? As noted by others (and in TFA), this kid started at a very young age, well before he knew he was gay. From the sounds of it, he would have received the Eagle Scout he so deserved by meeting all written requirements if he had been with another troop or in another part of the country. You don't see why people don't think this is right? This is an organization for kids -- why the heck does sexual orientation have anything to do with it? Is the Boy Scouts of America banning homosexual teens or not?


The KKK is open to black members. The problem is that the membership rules are extremely strict and most blacks can't make the cut.
 
2012-10-05 12:17:43 AM  
I'm tired of taking the right side so I'm going to take the wrong side.

Gay is a sin according to the bible. Groups should be commended for punishing the choice to sin. Choosing the sin of homosexuality has negative consequences as it ought to and as God intended. If we ever expect to get this country back on track we should support this action and not pander to the gay agenda.
 
2012-10-05 12:17:45 AM  

reaperducer: Don't believe in what the Scouts believe? Then don't join.


You're right. Those 6 year olds who could care less about anything sexual because they're largely devoid of sexual feelings should know they're gay and not join Cub Scouts.
 
2012-10-05 12:18:39 AM  
17 and too openly gay for the Boy Scouts.

Awesome.

Top or bottom?
 
2012-10-05 12:18:52 AM  

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.


I would love to unjoin the BSA, but my taxes still go towards them having free meeting places in buildings I pay for, the state will not let me unjoin their tax structure, nor will the BSA, for all it's talk of how private it is, actually cough up market rate values to build or rent it's own places. Farkin welfare queens.
 
2012-10-05 12:18:54 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

/still, fark those guys

But do they have to make THIS rule?

In 2012? Really?


The argument could just as easily be made that the kid knew he'd get kicked out because he wasn't following the rules. So why did he bother working towards the goal in the first place?
 
2012-10-05 12:20:07 AM  
bfd. my friend got his eagle scout badge for organizing little kids to paint picnic tables in the park.

FFS if it was something really earned, and not thought up on the way to the meeting where the deadline for submitting your idea was set...maybe it would be important.
 
2012-10-05 12:20:10 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: WxGuy1: DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy ScoutsThe KKK isn't open to gaysblacks. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gaysblacks. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.

How does that sound? Sure, I and many support the right of the KKK to exist, we also are enraged when they do something showing blatant bigotry.
You don't see why people would be upset about it? As noted by others (and in TFA), this kid started at a very young age, well before he knew he was gay. From the sounds of it, he would have received the Eagle Scout he so deserved by meeting all written requirements if he had been with another troop or in another part of the country. You don't see why people don't think this is right? This is an organization for kids -- why the heck does sexual orientation have anything to do with it? Is the Boy Scouts of America banning homosexual teens or not?

The KKK is open to black members. The problem is that the membership rules are extremely strict and most blacks can't make the cut.


...paper bag test?
 
2012-10-05 12:20:10 AM  
Whenever I see the BSA peddling their popcorn outside a store, I REALLY want to go off on the parents who are there w/the kids. Happy to know you're actively promoting a homophobic organization, folks! But that's unfair to the kids. They don't know and are too young to care. All I can hope is that eventually they'll wake the fark up and either campaign to change the rule or quit in protest & start their own, inclusive organization.
 
2012-10-05 12:20:44 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.

All of this.

/Former Eagle Scout
//Completely disgusted with the way the organization is acting


THIS X 1000!

/Former and disgruntled Eagle Scout
 
2012-10-05 12:20:59 AM  

Alonjar: For the record, I support peoples right to be gay.. if that does it for you, good for you.

HOWEVER... you cant deny the elephant in the room in regards to gay scout masters/elders. While it sucks to paint innocent gays with such a tainted brush, I can understand the concerns of parents with leaving their children under the supervision of gay adults who actively seek interaction with little boys. Its just... sketchy. The boy scouts of america have an image to keep up, and saying "leave your little boy with gay uncle jimmy!" just leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths.

I'm not homophobic.. but theres just certain things people wont be comfortable with, and this is one of them. The risk of damaging the reputation of the boy scouts in the same fashion as the Catholic church is too large for them to bear, and I understand.

I'm not saying its right... but I understand.


You sound...concerned...
 
2012-10-05 12:21:03 AM  

Aussie_As: "Financial resources for the local council (the local nonprofit corporation chartered by the National Council) come from local United Ways, Sustaining Members, foundations, special events, project sales, investment income, trust funds, bequests, and gifts of real and personal property." So while some of the funds for the Boy Scouts come from dues and fees paid by members and their families, a large percentage of these funds are paid by taxpayers."


None of these sources of income are taxpayer funds.
 
2012-10-05 12:21:11 AM  
epicdemotivational.com
 
2012-10-05 12:21:33 AM  

farkingismybusiness: Daddy beat me with a hose. Kicked out of the Webelos.


That was perhaps the hottest 7" you'll ever find.
 
2012-10-05 12:21:34 AM  

Babwa Wawa: A "tolerance wall" is some kind of f*&cking copout for an Eagle project. An eagle service project should involve at least 40 person-hours of work.

That said, screw the BSA and their intolerance.


Yeah I feel for the kid and ultimately the BSA is sending the wrong message. But that's a bullshiat project pure and simple.
 
2012-10-05 12:22:09 AM  

brap: I got kicked out of my Cub Scout troop because I kept trying to play the Door's "Light My Fire" on the church organ. 
 
:{
 
And I ALMOST had it you mather freaking Nazis.


Should have played In the Garden of Eden by I. Ron Butterfly.
 
2012-10-05 12:22:50 AM  

Theaetetus: DrPainMD: No different from groups that are only open to gays.

Which of these cover up for their child rapist members?
Catholic Church
Boy Scouts of America
Log Cabin Republicans

/right... no difference...


You had me fooled. Really. All this time, I've thought you were kind of smart. Now I know better.
 
2012-10-05 12:22:59 AM  
And late Thursday, the Boy Scouts of America said in a statement that because of Andresen's sexual orientation and that he did not agree to Scouting's principle of "Duty to God," "he is no longer eligible for membership in Scouting."

well, yeah - I mean it's their club house, the BSA sets the rules on this one. If they say 'no gay eagle scouts' then they won't let anyone gay become an eagle scout. you might not like their rules...but you do have to respect the right of the BSA to set their own rules for their own membership.. don't like the rules, don't join the scouts.
 
2012-10-05 12:23:54 AM  

Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.


The question is, will you?
 
2012-10-05 12:24:44 AM  
Hmm. I'm a bit perplexed at so many people in the thread being surprised by this.
The Boy Scouts have had this stance for a while now (along with supporting pedophilia), and it's been widely known for years.

Well, spread the word then.
 
2012-10-05 12:24:48 AM  

Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.


DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business.


obamadidcoke: This is a private organization that is allowed to regulate it's membership.


Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Private organization. Right or wrong (I think it is wrong), they can do what they want.


OK, if they're a private organization, then cut off their government support so my taxes aren't helping run a hate group.
 
2012-10-05 12:25:31 AM  

Alonjar: HOWEVER... you cant deny the elephant in the room in regards to gay scout masters/elders. While it sucks to paint innocent gays with such a tainted brush, I can understand the concerns of parents with leaving their children under the supervision of gay adults who actively seek interaction with little boys. Its just... sketchy. The boy scouts of america have an image to keep up, and saying "leave your little boy with gay uncle jimmy!" just leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths.


The big word you're looking for there is "pedophile." And it has nothing to do with "gay." Those who think it does need to learn other big words, such as "ignorant," "bigot," and "dumbass."
 
2012-10-05 12:25:35 AM  

brigid_fitch: Whenever I see the BSA peddling their popcorn outside a store, I REALLY want to go off on the parents who are there w/the kids. Happy to know you're actively promoting a homophobic organization, folks! But that's unfair to the kids. They don't know and are too young to care. All I can hope is that eventually they'll wake the fark up and either campaign to change the rule or quit in protest & start their own, inclusive organization.


I don't know why you'd care in the first place. you don't have to like the BSA 'no gays' rule but it's their club house...they can make up whatever rules they want for their membership. SCOTUS even said so.
 
2012-10-05 12:25:40 AM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Theaetetus: DrPainMD: No different from groups that are only open to gays.

Which of these cover up for their child rapist members?
Catholic Church
Boy Scouts of America
Log Cabin Republicans

/right... no difference...

You had me fooled. Really. All this time, I've thought you were kind of smart. Now I know better.


Are you accusing the Log Cabin Republicans of child rape?
Because they're a gay organization and not a religious one.
 
2012-10-05 12:25:57 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business.

obamadidcoke: This is a private organization that is allowed to regulate it's membership.

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Private organization. Right or wrong (I think it is wrong), they can do what they want.

OK, if they're a private organization, then cut off their government support so my taxes aren't helping run a hate group.


My point exactly.
 
2012-10-05 12:26:05 AM  
Why does anyone care about BSA, let them do what they do. An overwhelming number of Americans aprove to the mission of BSA, so get over it.
 
2012-10-05 12:27:45 AM  

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.


FTA: Ryan, 17, came out in July. Andresen said the Scoutmaster knew about Ryan's sexual orientation and they had no idea he wouldn't sign off on the paperwork. It was "a total shock," she said, adding that Ryan was led all along to believe he would be able to get the award.

Here's an idea. If you know that someone is wasting their time, effort, and probably money working towards a goal that you won't allow them to achieve, how about you don't act like a spiteful piece of shiat and at least have the decency to tell them. It's disgusting enough when someone acts like that towards an adult, but towards a child that has placed their trust in you. That's just goddamn vile.
 
2012-10-05 12:27:48 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Private organization. Right or wrong (I think it is wrong), they can do what they want.

What is to stop gay (or GTLB) adult mentors and gay (or GTLB) teens from starting their OWN scouting organization? To busy whining?


Always fun to see OC guy posting.
imageshack.us
 
2012-10-05 12:27:57 AM  
I am an eagle scout, and this shiat makes me sick to my stomach. If he earned the badges and did the project, give him the damned rank. I had to fake God for 3 years for mine, and it was BS then. Give the kid a break.
 
2012-10-05 12:28:36 AM  

Abox: I'm tired of taking the right side so I'm going to take the wrong side.

Gay is a sin according to the bible. Groups should be commended for punishing the choice to sin. Choosing the sin of homosexuality has negative consequences as it ought to and as God intended. If we ever expect to get this country back on track we should support this action and not pander to the gay agenda.


Ignoring your reference to "choosing" (other than to ask if you care to cite this?), homosexuality is no more a sin than eating pork or shellfish, wearing clothes of mixed cloth (such as boy scout uniforms) or working on the Sabbath (so no weekend camps for boy scouts then). To be so selective about which bits of the bible you want to follow smacks strongly of simple bigotry. It's hypocrisy, not simply about the gay agenda (what the hell is the gay agenda anyway? Margaret Cho brilliantly identified it as "assless wedding gowns").
 
2012-10-05 12:28:41 AM  

Theaetetus: DrPainMD: No different from groups that are only open to gays.

Which of these cover up for their child rapist members?
Catholic Church
Boy Scouts of America
Log Cabin Republicans

/right... no difference...


This is what really set me off. I know that they're a private organization and they can do whatever the Fark they want.

But deriding gays by saying they can't be in the Scouts to "protect the Scouts" while simultaneously covering for Scoutmasters who diddled their Scouts is crossing the line for me.

I was shocked and disgusted when that report came out. But I've been through this sort of thing before...I'm a Catholic.
 
2012-10-05 12:28:42 AM  
I need to go back and visit the BSA camp I went to and later worked at, and see if the OA lodge is still there with the name of the dude that paid to have it built still on it.

/Everyone knew that dude was gay and didn't really care
//Not happy with the direction the BSA has gone lately
 
2012-10-05 12:29:30 AM  

Weaver95: well, yeah - I mean it's their club house, the BSA sets the rules on this one. If they say 'no gay eagle scouts' then they won't let anyone gay become an eagle scout. you might not like their rules...but you do have to respect the right of the BSA to set their own rules for their own membership.. don't like the rules, don't join the scouts.


I wonder if we'd see much outrage if the DOD was authorized by Congress to offer lend supplies, equipment and transportation to the KKK, gave special promotions to Grand High Wizards, helped KKK recruiting, and let them burn crosses on federal land...
 
2012-10-05 12:29:39 AM  

obamadidcoke: Why does anyone care about BSA, let them do what they do. An overwhelming number of Americans aprove to the mission of BSA, so get over it.


I don't know if I'd go THAT far. there's a fair number of people who don't like the BSA policy regarding homosexuality, and believe that one issue alone should bar the BSA from any sort of funding.
 
2012-10-05 12:29:48 AM  
Doesn't matter if anyone thinks being gay is good or bad or neutral. Lots of clubs and private organizations have rules and standards, about being gay, about gender, weight, age, marital status. Should I get pissed at the AARP or VFW for not accepting me because I don't meet the standards of their group? I can't belong to very many organizations because I'm poor. I probably couldn't adopt a child no matter how hard I try. I would not be able to get a mortgage. Should I (a) go around whining about it, or (b) suck it up and move on? Get a brain! Morans.
 
2012-10-05 12:30:10 AM  

Weaver95: And late Thursday, the Boy Scouts of America said in a statement that because of Andresen's sexual orientation and that he did not agree to Scouting's principle of "Duty to God," "he is no longer eligible for membership in Scouting."

well, yeah - I mean it's their club house, the BSA sets the rules on this one. If they say 'no gay eagle scouts' then they won't let anyone gay become an eagle scout. you might not like their rules...but you do have to respect the right of the BSA to set their own rules for their own membership.. don't like the rules, don't join the scouts.


The problem, as others have stated above (and as the parent in TFA says), is that young CHILDREN join the cub scouts. These are 6-8 year olds who have no sexual feeling or identities. How in the world are these children supposed to know that they are unwelcomed? I agree that a private organization can set their own membership criteria, but do you really think children know, at the time, whether they are heterosexual or homosexual and, thus, comply with this unwritten membership rule? Cmon...

Maybe the scout should have just stayed in the closet until after he received the Eagle Scout status, but what a terribly shiatty choice. He spent years in the Boy Scouts, and he's supposed to abandon it because he's learned that he's gay? Again, for an adult, that's fine, but these are kids for crying out loud. Certainly there should be lessons that should be taught to children that do not include" if you like penis, you should be ashamed for thinking you can a Boy Scout".
 
2012-10-05 12:31:15 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: well, yeah - I mean it's their club house, the BSA sets the rules on this one. If they say 'no gay eagle scouts' then they won't let anyone gay become an eagle scout. you might not like their rules...but you do have to respect the right of the BSA to set their own rules for their own membership.. don't like the rules, don't join the scouts.

I wonder if we'd see much outrage if the DOD was authorized by Congress to offer lend supplies, equipment and transportation to the KKK, gave special promotions to Grand High Wizards, helped KKK recruiting, and let them burn crosses on federal land...


because the BSA is *exactly* like the KKK, right?
 
2012-10-05 12:31:17 AM  

Alonjar: HOWEVER... you cant deny the elephant in the room in regards to gay scout masters/elders. While it sucks to paint innocent gays with such a tainted brush, I can understand the concerns of parents with leaving their children under the supervision of gay adults who actively seek interaction with little boys. Its just... sketchy. The boy scouts of america have an image to keep up, and saying "leave your little boy with gay uncle jimmy!" just leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths.


I hope you're trolling.

Or were you in a cave when this investigation from the LA Times came out?
 
2012-10-05 12:31:28 AM  

firefly212: DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.

I would love to unjoin the BSA, but my taxes still go towards them having free meeting places in buildings I pay for, the state will not let me unjoin their tax structure, nor will the BSA, for all it's talk of how private it is, actually cough up market rate values to build or rent it's own places. Farkin welfare queens.


That's okay 55% of Americans don't approve of their tax dollars being used for abortions, but they are. I don't like the fact that my tax dollars go to buy missiles and bombs that are used to murder civilians in Afghanistan but I can't opt out.

Social contract, get over it.
 
2012-10-05 12:31:31 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business.

obamadidcoke: This is a private organization that is allowed to regulate it's membership.

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Private organization. Right or wrong (I think it is wrong), they can do what they want.

OK, if they're a private organization, then cut off their government support so my taxes aren't helping run a hate group.


I agree 100%. Even if the DID accept gays, the government has no farking business giving money to any private organization. Yes, that includes corporate welfare.
 
2012-10-05 12:31:41 AM  

Shadyman: Big Dave: /Kicked out as a Weebalo for attracting bears to the camp

Sounds like there's a story behind that.


There was some sort of week-long jamboree or something at Silver Lake or Clear Lake or some other Lake out in eastern California. I had to google it to see how old I was - 4th or 5th grade. It was great; first time away from mom, breakfast with 500 other boys in the morning, hikes out to cliffs where the older boys found deep water so we could we dive into the lake, huge bonfires and funny skits at night, and then sleeping in my own cold little tent alone. And archery! I was really looking forward to that.

Anyway they said "Don't leave food out anywhere or you will attract bears". But there was a sort of camp store that sold candy and I had a $30 credit (a fortune in 1989). So for some reason (listening to the destructive impulse in all boys) I threw bits of food everywhere and even squirted toothpaste on trees (out of the line of site of the camp) in the hopes that bears would come. And the bears came. And it's been more than 20 years so I don't remember exactly how I was caught, but I do remember being picked up and the looong drive home and I never made it to the goddamn archery range.

(also, when was 8 years old, at an under-the-stars campout where we slept in just our sleeping bags with no tents, I had to leave after the first night because mosquitos ate my face. Mom had to pick me up from that event too, and she cried when she saw my misshapen, swollen head. Today she would have sued lol)

/has done ok in life despite incomplete scouting skills
//also, another long story short; their religious indoctrination failed and I was an atheist from age 10 on
///slashies come in threes
 
2012-10-05 12:32:17 AM  

Weaver95: because the BSA is *exactly* like the KKK, right?


Bigotry is bigotry. One group gets a pass because they do camp-outs?
 
2012-10-05 12:32:30 AM  

Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.


If you really mean it: Link
 
2012-10-05 12:33:19 AM  

WxGuy1:

The problem, as others have stated above (and as the parent in TFA says), is that young CHILDREN join the cub scouts. These are 6-8 year olds who have no sexual feeling or identities. How in the world are these children supposed to know that they are unwelcomed? I agree that a private organization can set their own membership criteria, but do you really think children know, at the time, whether they are heterosexual or homosexual and, thus, comply with this unwritten membership rule? Cmon...

Maybe the scout should have just stayed in the closet until after he received the Eagle Scout status, but what a terribly shiatty choice. He spent years in the Boy Scouts, and he's supposed to abandon it because he's learned that he's gay? Again, for an adult, that's fine, but these are kids for crying out loud. Certainly there should be lessons that should be taught to children that do not include" if you like penis, you should be ashamed for thinking you can a Boy Scout".


I didn't say their policies had to make sense or that you had to like them. I said that the BSA gets to set their policies for their membership. don't like it, don't join the organization. And by the way, feel free to complain about it endlessly. But...ya can't outlaw the BSA just 'cause you don't like 'em. And making life difficult for them seems kinda mean and petty...but hey, if that's what floats yer boat then have at it.
 
2012-10-05 12:34:13 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: because the BSA is *exactly* like the KKK, right?

Bigotry is bigotry. One group gets a pass because they do camp-outs?


so you really, honestly believe that the Boy Scouts are in all ways identical to the KKK? that's what yer going with here?
 
2012-10-05 12:34:40 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: because the BSA is *exactly* like the KKK, right?

Bigotry is bigotry. One group gets a pass because they do camp-outs?


Can't we let the warmth of the bonfires bring us together?
 
2012-10-05 12:36:20 AM  

Weaver95: so you really, honestly believe that the Boy Scouts are in all ways identical to the KKK? that's what yer going with here?


I never said "in all ways". In the particular way called "being a hate group" I would say they are the same, apart from their targets.
 
2012-10-05 12:36:55 AM  

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.


Private organizations are immune from criticism? Huh?

Calling out bigotry is not bigotry. Seriously. You're an idiot.
And there are no groups "only open to gays".
 
2012-10-05 12:36:55 AM  

Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.


Rather than mailing in your eagle patch, which would be something that only the BSA would know about and would be easily ignored, you should make a public statement. The BSA claims that they ban gays because that is what their members want. If the members make it clear that that is not true then the BSA might change their policy.
 
2012-10-05 12:37:11 AM  
Another Eagle Scout here who is thoroughly disgusted with today's BSA.

Fark you and your magic underwear, Mormons. Take your idiot theology, written by a convicted felon scam artist, and shove it.

The Scouts have taken a lot of knocks, but aside from the Christian nightsoil, the organization is good. We did a lot of backpacking and went on long-term hikes of 7-10 days in the summer in the high Sierras.

You learned basic survival, got to run around the woods with your friends and it was a good time.

We had good leaders, too. All the adults were professionals. A doctor was almost always on the hikes, some lawyers, and lots of engineers. The engineers were cool. A few of them worked on military satellites who knew a ridiculous amount about the stars. They'd tell us around the campfire and they'd also pick out satellites and could tell if they were Soviet or US based on the orbit and how fast they rotated.

Homosexuality never came up. There were probably a few gays, but it wasn't a problem and I don't think they would have been thrown out. Also, most of the troop were non-believers. That didn't come up, either.

Anyhow, I got a lot of the Scouts. I just wish it wasn't so farked up.

No, I'm not giving them a cent or a minute of volunteer work until they knock off the horsepoop.
 
2012-10-05 12:37:13 AM  
As an Eagle Scout and Order of the Arrow member myself (got em about 25 years ago), I agree with most of the thoughts here.

Just cuz he likes sucking Richard, doesn't mean the poor boy should be denied his Eagle.

Daymnit Scouts.... Get your head outta your arse.

shiate likes this makes me ashamed I was once a proud member of the Boy Scouts of America.
 
2012-10-05 12:37:22 AM  
Not sure that they get direct government funding.

http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/Funding.aspx
 
2012-10-05 12:37:40 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: because the BSA is *exactly* like the KKK, right?

Bigotry is bigotry. One group gets a pass because they do camp-outs?

Can't we let the warmth of the bonfires bring us together?


Why bring Hitler into this?
 
2012-10-05 12:37:41 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: so you really, honestly believe that the Boy Scouts are in all ways identical to the KKK? that's what yer going with here?

I never said "in all ways". In the particular way called "being a hate group" I would say they are the same, apart from their targets.


ah, so the BSA do have SOME differences from the KKK. lets go a bit further.

do the boy scouts organize gangs to go out and 'curb stomp' gays and minorities like the KKK does?
 
2012-10-05 12:38:04 AM  

Weaver95: well, yeah - I mean it's their club house, the BSA sets the rules on this one. If they say 'no gay eagle scouts' then they won't let anyone gay become an eagle scout. you might not like their rules...but you do have to respect the right of the BSA to set their own rules for their own membership.. don't like the rules, don't join the scouts.


The problem with your "logic" is that the Federal and local Governments give all kinds of in-kind support to the Scouts at taxpayer expense, ranging from free meeting spaces in schools to open houses in police and fire departments to the Department of Defense spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to help run the Jamboree.

If the Scouts want to exclude gays, fine. But why should taxpayers subsidize a group that discriminates?
 
2012-10-05 12:38:24 AM  
Should just change their name to the Straight Boy Scouts and be done with it. SBS, even has a nice ring to it. or Straight Non-Atheist Boy Scouts and call themsekves SNABS. Even better ring. Disgusting bunch of disgraces to the human race. Any of you people actively involved or have children actively involved should be ashamed of yourselves.
 
2012-10-05 12:38:44 AM  

Weaver95: And late Thursday, the Boy Scouts of America said in a statement that because of Andresen's sexual orientation and that he did not agree to Scouting's principle of "Duty to God," "he is no longer eligible for membership in Scouting."

well, yeah - I mean it's their club house, the BSA sets the rules on this one. If they say 'no gay eagle scouts' then they won't let anyone gay become an eagle scout. you might not like their rules...but you do have to respect the right of the BSA to set their own rules for their own membership.. don't like the rules, don't join the scouts.


Since most of them join the scouts before they ever think about sexuality, how does that work? Why should they be punished for being born the way they are?

God doesn't give a flying shiat about who you love and find attractive, why should we?
 
2012-10-05 12:38:51 AM  
obamadidcoke: This is a private organization that is allowed to regulate it's membership. If you disagree with their views on homosexuality don't join. I don't understand why a gay kid would join anyway.

I keep reading variations on this "Boy Scouts are a private organization" meme, even though the fact that they were chartered by congress and receive federal tax money has been mentioned several times in this thread already. Do you guys just not read, or are you trying to drown out reality with your homophobe-supporting bullsh#t?
 
2012-10-05 12:39:27 AM  

Weaver95: WxGuy1:

The problem, as others have stated above (and as the parent in TFA says), is that young CHILDREN join the cub scouts. These are 6-8 year olds who have no sexual feeling or identities. How in the world are these children supposed to know that they are unwelcomed? I agree that a private organization can set their own membership criteria, but do you really think children know, at the time, whether they are heterosexual or homosexual and, thus, comply with this unwritten membership rule? Cmon...

Maybe the scout should have just stayed in the closet until after he received the Eagle Scout status, but what a terribly shiatty choice. He spent years in the Boy Scouts, and he's supposed to abandon it because he's learned that he's gay? Again, for an adult, that's fine, but these are kids for crying out loud. Certainly there should be lessons that should be taught to children that do not include" if you like penis, you should be ashamed for thinking you can a Boy Scout".

I didn't say their policies had to make sense or that you had to like them. I said that the BSA gets to set their policies for their membership. don't like it, don't join the organization. And by the way, feel free to complain about it endlessly. But...ya can't outlaw the BSA just 'cause you don't like 'em. And making life difficult for them seems kinda mean and petty...but hey, if that's what floats yer boat then have at it.


Where did I say that I want to "outlaw the BSA"?! I'm expressing frustration that such policies exist in 2012 (just as I would have if I lived in the 1950s and saw racial discrimination first hand). I even said that they have every right to exist (just as the KKK does), but I also have a right to express my dissatisfaction with the inequality being shown by the BSA regarding something that the members don't know about and don't care about when they join (that is, sexual orientation).
 
2012-10-05 12:39:39 AM  
Count me as a disgruntled Eagle.

My troop had a scout who was gay. And more than a couple of us who didn't care for the God part. Most of us did reach Eagle.

Everybody knew, nobody cared. I like to think that troops like mine still exist out there.

For now, I'll cross my fingers and put some hope in Stephenson and Turley
 
2012-10-05 12:39:48 AM  

Weaver95: brigid_fitch: Whenever I see the BSA peddling their popcorn outside a store, I REALLY want to go off on the parents who are there w/the kids. Happy to know you're actively promoting a homophobic organization, folks! But that's unfair to the kids. They don't know and are too young to care. All I can hope is that eventually they'll wake the fark up and either campaign to change the rule or quit in protest & start their own, inclusive organization.

I don't know why you'd care in the first place. you don't have to like the BSA 'no gays' rule but it's their club house...they can make up whatever rules they want for their membership. SCOTUS even said so.


So...no one is allowed to call them out or criticize them?
 
2012-10-05 12:43:05 AM  

Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.


Send it in quickly. It's Boy Scouts, not Homo Scouts...
 
2012-10-05 12:43:44 AM  
On May 15, 2008 the House of Representatives passed H.R. 5872, an act "To require the Secretary of the Treasury to mint coins in commemoration of the centennial of the Boy Scouts of America, and for other purposes." The sale of the coins by the Secretary of the Treasury includes a surcharge on each coin sold to "be paid to the National Boy Scouts of America Foundation." In other words, this is a Congressionally mandated fundraiser for the Boy Scouts.

Congress is raising money for the Boy Scouts. I'd say that makes it my business.
 
2012-10-05 12:44:24 AM  

GleeUnit: What's this about the Mormons?

/Honest question



The LDS church is a major sponsor of Scout troops in the US. How close the relationship really is, I don't know.
 
2012-10-05 12:44:35 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Kingly Weevil: I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.

All of this.

/Former Eagle Scout
//Completely disgusted with the way the organization is acting


I hope you both turn in your Eagle insignia and let the BSA know why.
 
2012-10-05 12:44:53 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: well, yeah - I mean it's their club house, the BSA sets the rules on this one. If they say 'no gay eagle scouts' then they won't let anyone gay become an eagle scout. you might not like their rules...but you do have to respect the right of the BSA to set their own rules for their own membership.. don't like the rules, don't join the scouts.

The problem with your "logic" is that the Federal and local Governments give all kinds of in-kind support to the Scouts at taxpayer expense, ranging from free meeting spaces in schools to open houses in police and fire departments to the Department of Defense spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to help run the Jamboree.

If the Scouts want to exclude gays, fine. But why should taxpayers subsidize a group that discriminates?


well, for starters - the BSA put in a LOT of time and effort to maintain state and federal game lands and parks. if you want to put a price tag on it, the various scouting organizations put in literally hundreds of thousands of man hours (which translates to a couple billion $$$ a year in free labor) cleaning up parks, assisting in conservation efforts and working on upgrades and standard maintenance at every level of the park system. cut the BSA off from that and wanna guess what happens next? it won't be good for the parks, I can tell you that much. Careful where you go with this sort of logic. it'll bite ya in the ass faster than you realize.

I get that you don't like the BSA policies on homosexuality. hey, that's great. diversity right? But even if you don't like the scouting organization's rules on homosexuality, don't forget that they still manage to do a helluva lot of good for their local communities. everything from conservation to volunteer work. you start cutting the scouts out of society then you'll end up hurting all the people the scouts have helped. you really wanna cut your nose off to spite your face? is that a trade off you're willing to make?
 
2012-10-05 12:45:46 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah:
God doesn't give a flying shiat about who you love and find attractive, why should we?


You speak for god?
 
2012-10-05 12:45:53 AM  

eddiesocket: Weaver95: brigid_fitch: Whenever I see the BSA peddling their popcorn outside a store, I REALLY want to go off on the parents who are there w/the kids. Happy to know you're actively promoting a homophobic organization, folks! But that's unfair to the kids. They don't know and are too young to care. All I can hope is that eventually they'll wake the fark up and either campaign to change the rule or quit in protest & start their own, inclusive organization.

I don't know why you'd care in the first place. you don't have to like the BSA 'no gays' rule but it's their club house...they can make up whatever rules they want for their membership. SCOTUS even said so.

So...no one is allowed to call them out or criticize them?


sure thing! have at it!
 
2012-10-05 12:46:36 AM  

Cataholic: Aussie_As: "Financial resources for the local council (the local nonprofit corporation chartered by the National Council) come from local United Ways, Sustaining Members, foundations, special events, project sales, investment income, trust funds, bequests, and gifts of real and personal property." So while some of the funds for the Boy Scouts come from dues and fees paid by members and their families, a large percentage of these funds are paid by taxpayers."

None of these sources of income are taxpayer funds.


There's more to it than that, though. BSA groups also get off-book funding of a sort, in the form of free provisions from publicly-owned, taxpayer-funded facilities and resources. It's long been the practice in many communities, for example, to let the BSA use facilities such as public school spaces for free -- spaces that other non-profits would be asked to pay to use. That amounts to taxpayer support.
 
2012-10-05 12:47:56 AM  

Weaver95: the various scouting organizations put in literally hundreds of thousands of man hours (which translates to a couple billion $$$ a year in free labor)


How does hundreds of thousands of hours of labor = a couple of billion dollars? Let's say it's 500,000 hours... is their labor really worth $40 an hour?
 
2012-10-05 12:48:11 AM  

Weaver95: well, for starters - the BSA put in a LOT of time and effort to maintain state and federal game lands and parks. if you want to put a price tag on it, the various scouting organizations put in literally hundreds of thousands of man hours (which translates to a couple billion $$$ a year in free labor) cleaning up parks, assisting in conservation efforts and working on upgrades and standard maintenance at every level of the park system. cut the BSA off from that and wanna guess what happens next? it won't be good for the parks, I can tell you that much. Careful where you go with this sort of logic. it'll bite ya in the ass faster than you realize.


Take the taxpayer money that's going to the Boy Scouts and create some damn JOBS cleaning up the parks.
 
2012-10-05 12:48:16 AM  

Weaver95: And making life difficult for them seems kinda mean and petty...


Oh, farking Christ! Yes, let's all shed a tear for the poor bigoted BSA. Let's not be mean and petty by calling them out as the bigots they are.
Seriously, this "you must tolerate my intolerance" BS by conservatives never fails to amuse. We're not doing that anymore. Sorry. No more turning the other cheek.
 
2012-10-05 12:48:55 AM  

Weaver95: ah, so the BSA do have SOME differences from the KKK. lets go a bit further.

do the boy scouts organize gangs to go out and 'curb stomp' gays and minorities like the KKK does?


You can still be a hate group and not openly make use of physical violence to express your hate.
 
2012-10-05 12:48:58 AM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch:
There's more to it than that, though. BSA groups also get off-book funding of a sort, in the form of free provisions from publicly-owned, taxpayer-funded facilities and resources. It's long been the practice in many communities, for example, to let the BSA use facilities such as public school spaces for free -- spaces that other non-profits would be asked to pay to use. That amounts to taxpayer support.


not really. I mean...consider all the effort the BSA puts into their local communities. again - everything from volunteer work to conservation efforts. VERY few other organizations do that for local communities. I think it's a wash as far as this talking point goes.
 
2012-10-05 12:49:45 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: the various scouting organizations put in literally hundreds of thousands of man hours (which translates to a couple billion $$$ a year in free labor)

How does hundreds of thousands of hours of labor = a couple of billion dollars? Let's say it's 500,000 hours... is their labor really worth $40 an hour?


Have you ever SEEN how much government contractors get paid!?
 
2012-10-05 12:50:02 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Keizer_Ghidorah:
God doesn't give a flying shiat about who you love and find attractive, why should we?

You speak for gGod?


/had he used the lowercase G, I wouldn't have bothered...
//bored
 
2012-10-05 12:50:04 AM  

Weaver95: The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: well, yeah - I mean it's their club house, the BSA sets the rules on this one. If they say 'no gay eagle scouts' then they won't let anyone gay become an eagle scout. you might not like their rules...but you do have to respect the right of the BSA to set their own rules for their own membership.. don't like the rules, don't join the scouts.

The problem with your "logic" is that the Federal and local Governments give all kinds of in-kind support to the Scouts at taxpayer expense, ranging from free meeting spaces in schools to open houses in police and fire departments to the Department of Defense spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to help run the Jamboree.

If the Scouts want to exclude gays, fine. But why should taxpayers subsidize a group that discriminates?

well, for starters - the BSA put in a LOT of time and effort to maintain state and federal game lands and parks. if you want to put a price tag on it, the various scouting organizations put in literally hundreds of thousands of man hours (which translates to a couple billion $$$ a year in free labor) cleaning up parks, assisting in conservation efforts and working on upgrades and standard maintenance at every level of the park system. cut the BSA off from that and wanna guess what happens next? it won't be good for the parks, I can tell you that much. Careful where you go with this sort of logic. it'll bite ya in the ass faster than you realize.

I get that you don't like the BSA policies on homosexuality. hey, that's great. diversity right? But even if you don't like the scouting organization's rules on homosexuality, don't forget that they still manage to do a helluva lot of good for their local communities. everything from conservation to volunteer work. you start cutting the scouts out of society then you'll end up hurting all the people the scouts have helped. you really wanna cut your nose off to spite your face? is that a trade off you're willing to make ...


Oh, whoopee, they helped out nature. Gee, they did nice things for some people. I guess that means they're free to be assholes towards others as a form of reward or something.

I clean empty lots and help at soup kitchens, therefore I'm entitled to discriminate against Asians because they're not the same as me and I feel they're an affront to God and Jesus.
 
2012-10-05 12:50:07 AM  
Schools in Texas that allow BSA to use facilities must also allow other organizations to use facilities under the same guidelines as BSA. So if you want to start Queer Scouts go right ahead.
 
2012-10-05 12:51:13 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: the various scouting organizations put in literally hundreds of thousands of man hours (which translates to a couple billion $$$ a year in free labor)

How does hundreds of thousands of hours of labor = a couple of billion dollars? Let's say it's 500,000 hours... is their labor really worth $40 an hour?


Those old biddies aren't going to cross the streets on their own, you know.
 
2012-10-05 12:51:16 AM  

diaphoresis: God-is-a-Taco: Keizer_Ghidorah:
God doesn't give a flying shiat about who you love and find attractive, why should we?

You speak for gGod?

/had he used the lowercase G, I wouldn't have bothered...
//bored


Oh, right. That'll do, pig, that'll do.
 
2012-10-05 12:51:17 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: the various scouting organizations put in literally hundreds of thousands of man hours (which translates to a couple billion $$$ a year in free labor)

How does hundreds of thousands of hours of labor = a couple of billion dollars? Let's say it's 500,000 hours... is their labor really worth $40 an hour?


Math correction = $4,000 per hour.

"you really wanna cut your nose off to spite your face? is that a trade off you're willing to make?"

At $4,000 per hour, hell yes.
 
2012-10-05 12:51:52 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: ah, so the BSA do have SOME differences from the KKK. lets go a bit further.

do the boy scouts organize gangs to go out and 'curb stomp' gays and minorities like the KKK does?

You can still be a hate group and not openly make use of physical violence to express your hate.


ooook, so there's a point of difference. the KKK goes out and uses physical threats and intimidation while the BSA...does what again exactly? oh, right...doesn't let gays join their reindeer games.

not exactly the same sorts of organizations after all, are they?
 
2012-10-05 12:52:18 AM  

Weaver95: Have you ever SEEN how much government contractors get paid!?


I don't see how that makes a Boy Scout's labor worth $4,000 per hour.
 
2012-10-05 12:52:25 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Keizer_Ghidorah:
God doesn't give a flying shiat about who you love and find attractive, why should we?

You speak for god?


Hey, he's not saying anything. Hasn't for 2,000 years or so. If he really cared about anything, you think he'd have voiced it by now. Of course it IS difficult for a fictional thing to actually speak.

/God said to stone people to death who eat shellfish, wear blended fabrics, and work on a certain day. Why would anyone with a heart and brain follow a monster like that?
 
2012-10-05 12:52:33 AM  

eddiesocket: Weaver95: And making life difficult for them seems kinda mean and petty...

Oh, farking Christ! Yes, let's all shed a tear for the poor bigoted BSA. Let's not be mean and petty by calling them out as the bigots they are.
Seriously, this "you must tolerate my intolerance" BS by conservatives all people (regardless of political allegience) never fails to amuse. We're not doing that anymore. Sorry. No more turning the other cheek.


Let the truth speak...
 
2012-10-05 12:53:03 AM  

eddiesocket: Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.

If you really mean it: Link


Wow.... That's an amazing link. I only skimmed over the first 3 letters, and was shocked to see that the page just went on and on and on. If the other letters are like the first 3 (and I must assume they are), the Boy Scouts administration has done a very very stupid thing. There are some eloquent, earnest people returning their badges (?) right there.
 
2012-10-05 12:53:27 AM  
farkin' Business Software Alliance!
 
2012-10-05 12:53:37 AM  

Weaver95: Sylvia_Bandersnatch:
There's more to it than that, though. BSA groups also get off-book funding of a sort, in the form of free provisions from publicly-owned, taxpayer-funded facilities and resources. It's long been the practice in many communities, for example, to let the BSA use facilities such as public school spaces for free -- spaces that other non-profits would be asked to pay to use. That amounts to taxpayer support.

not really. I mean...consider all the effort the BSA puts into their local communities. again - everything from volunteer work to conservation efforts. VERY few other organizations do that for local communities. I think it's a wash as far as this talking point goes.


Well, we certainly can't argue with your solid stats.
 
2012-10-05 12:54:40 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Oh, whoopee, they helped out nature. Gee, they did nice things for some people. I guess that means they're free to be assholes towards others as a form of reward or something.

I clean empty lots and help at soup kitchens, therefore I'm entitled to discriminate against Asians because they're not the same as me and I feel they're an affront to God and Jesus.


sorry man - the world isn't always black and white. you drive the BSA out of your local communities and well...you'll pay a price for it. actions, consequences, blah blah blah.
 
2012-10-05 12:54:48 AM  

Weaver95: Have you ever SEEN how much government contractors get paid!?


Yes, and you don't need ANY middlemen. You don't need Blackwater to be your middlemen, you don't need homophobic scout leaders to be your middlemen. Pay them DIRECTLY, like the current park employees, who I guarantee you aren't taking baths in gold coins.
 
2012-10-05 12:54:56 AM  
Obviously BSA camp is for straight boys, dance camp is for the gays. It's a perfect world.
 
2012-10-05 12:55:26 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: Have you ever SEEN how much government contractors get paid!?

I don't see how that makes a Boy Scout's labor worth $4,000 per hour.


then talk to your elected officials about the fedgov and how they pay federal contractors.
 
2012-10-05 12:56:00 AM  

Weaver95: sorry man - the world isn't always black and white. you drive the BSA out of your local communities and well...you'll pay a price for it. actions, consequences, blah blah blah.


So you're sticking with your "Boy Scout labor is worth $4,000 per hour" nonsense? Unreal.
 
2012-10-05 12:56:06 AM  

Weaver95: ooook, so there's a point of difference. the KKK goes out and uses physical threats and intimidation while the BSA...does what again exactly? oh, right...doesn't let gays join their reindeer games.

not exactly the same sorts of organizations after all, are they?


Again, I never said they were the same. Only that they were both hate groups.

You and I are not the same, but we are both male.
 
2012-10-05 12:56:28 AM  

Weaver95:
not exactly the same sorts of organizations after all, are they?


I think the main branch, the Mormons themselves, offer the best comparison in this situation.

The Mormons buckled and accepted black people as human in 1978.
It will happen again with gays, but I think the Mormons and Catholics will be the last bulwarks against them.
 
2012-10-05 12:57:05 AM  

Weaver95: then talk to your elected officials about the fedgov and how they pay federal contractors.


What does that have to do with your claim that Boy Scout labor is worth $4,000 per hour? You're going to have to try a lot harder to change the subject.
 
2012-10-05 12:57:42 AM  

eddiesocket: Weaver95: Sylvia_Bandersnatch:
There's more to it than that, though. BSA groups also get off-book funding of a sort, in the form of free provisions from publicly-owned, taxpayer-funded facilities and resources. It's long been the practice in many communities, for example, to let the BSA use facilities such as public school spaces for free -- spaces that other non-profits would be asked to pay to use. That amounts to taxpayer support.

not really. I mean...consider all the effort the BSA puts into their local communities. again - everything from volunteer work to conservation efforts. VERY few other organizations do that for local communities. I think it's a wash as far as this talking point goes.

Well, we certainly can't argue with your solid stats.


it's 1am and f*ck you if think i'm gonna go wade thru google searches looking for verified stats on just how many man hours the BSA puts in per year on conservation work across the USA. short answer? lots. longer answer: HELL of a lot.
 
2012-10-05 12:58:21 AM  

Weaver95: Keizer_Ghidorah: Oh, whoopee, they helped out nature. Gee, they did nice things for some people. I guess that means they're free to be assholes towards others as a form of reward or something.

I clean empty lots and help at soup kitchens, therefore I'm entitled to discriminate against Asians because they're not the same as me and I feel they're an affront to God and Jesus.


sorry man - the world isn't always black and white. you drive the BSA out of your local communities and well...you'll pay a price for it. actions, consequences, blah blah blah.


Sorry man. You making up bullshiat doesn't make it true.
 
2012-10-05 12:58:26 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah:
Hey, he's not saying anything. Hasn't for 2,000 years or so. If he really cared about anything, you think he'd have voiced it by now. Of course it IS difficult for a fictional thing to actually speak.

/God said to stone people to death who eat shellfish, wear blended fabrics, and work on a certain day. Why would anyone with a heart and brain follow a monster like that?


Oh, okay. Good, good. You are on the side of humanity. Cheers.
 
2012-10-05 12:59:49 AM  

Weaver95: eddiesocket: Weaver95: Sylvia_Bandersnatch:
There's more to it than that, though. BSA groups also get off-book funding of a sort, in the form of free provisions from publicly-owned, taxpayer-funded facilities and resources. It's long been the practice in many communities, for example, to let the BSA use facilities such as public school spaces for free -- spaces that other non-profits would be asked to pay to use. That amounts to taxpayer support.

not really. I mean...consider all the effort the BSA puts into their local communities. again - everything from volunteer work to conservation efforts. VERY few other organizations do that for local communities. I think it's a wash as far as this talking point goes.

Well, we certainly can't argue with your solid stats.

it's 1am and f*ck you if think i'm gonna go wade thru google searches looking for verified stats on just how many man hours the BSA puts in per year on conservation work across the USA. short answer? lots. longer answer: HELL of a lot.


Argued like a true Teabagger. Except you should've said H-E-Double Hockey Sticks.
 
2012-10-05 01:00:12 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: then talk to your elected officials about the fedgov and how they pay federal contractors.

What does that have to do with your claim that Boy Scout labor is worth $4,000 per hour? You're going to have to try a lot harder to change the subject.


are you really this f*cking stupid or do you just hate the fact that the BSA makes up rules that you don't like and cannot force them to change...?

short answer - the BSA puts in a LOT of free labor. quibble on the details if you'd like...but they put a lot of work into conservation projects and volunteer work. I'd say that MORE than earns them a couple of perks for their organization. hell, it's a bargain for the states with all that free labor.
 
2012-10-05 01:01:00 AM  

Weaver95: it's 1am and f*ck you if think i'm gonna go wade thru google searches looking for verified stats on just how many man hours the BSA puts in per year on conservation work across the USA. short answer? lots. longer answer: HELL of a lot.


Oh, so now you're admitting you have no idea what you're talking about, but f*ck us? Whatever.
 
2012-10-05 01:01:19 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: then talk to your elected officials about the fedgov and how they pay federal contractors.

What does that have to do with your claim that Boy Scout labor is worth $4,000 per hour? You're going to have to try a lot harder to change the subject.


He's completely spun out, defending the indefensible. "They pick up litter, who cares if they hate f*gs?" It's ridiculous.
 
2012-10-05 01:01:22 AM  

eddiesocket: Weaver95: eddiesocket: Weaver95: Sylvia_Bandersnatch:
There's more to it than that, though. BSA groups also get off-book funding of a sort, in the form of free provisions from publicly-owned, taxpayer-funded facilities and resources. It's long been the practice in many communities, for example, to let the BSA use facilities such as public school spaces for free -- spaces that other non-profits would be asked to pay to use. That amounts to taxpayer support.

not really. I mean...consider all the effort the BSA puts into their local communities. again - everything from volunteer work to conservation efforts. VERY few other organizations do that for local communities. I think it's a wash as far as this talking point goes.

Well, we certainly can't argue with your solid stats.

it's 1am and f*ck you if think i'm gonna go wade thru google searches looking for verified stats on just how many man hours the BSA puts in per year on conservation work across the USA. short answer? lots. longer answer: HELL of a lot.

Argued like a true Teabagger. Except you should've said H-E-Double Hockey Sticks.


so you wanna take the position that the BSA doesn't put in a lot of time and effort with conservation efforts around the country? you REALLY wanna go that route?

well alrightie then. good luck with that.
 
2012-10-05 01:02:15 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: it's 1am and f*ck you if think i'm gonna go wade thru google searches looking for verified stats on just how many man hours the BSA puts in per year on conservation work across the USA. short answer? lots. longer answer: HELL of a lot.

Oh, so now you're admitting you have no idea what you're talking about, but f*ck us? Whatever.


oh I know exactly what i'm talking about...i'm just giving you my standard 'f*ck you, do your own research' reply I give everyone on fark.
 
2012-10-05 01:03:00 AM  

Weaver95: are you really this f*cking stupid


You said: hundreds of thousands of hours of labor translates to a couple of billion dollars worth of value. Using 500,000 hours, that works out to $4,000 for each hour of labor.

That's your claim. And that makes me stupid?
 
2012-10-05 01:03:30 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: ooook, so there's a point of difference. the KKK goes out and uses physical threats and intimidation while the BSA...does what again exactly? oh, right...doesn't let gays join their reindeer games.

not exactly the same sorts of organizations after all, are they?

Again, I never said they were the same. Only that they were both hate groups.

You and I are not the same, but we are both male.


Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Now the black congressional caucus that's a hate group.
Link
 
2012-10-05 01:03:49 AM  

eddiesocket:

He's completely spun out, defending the indefensible. "They pick up litter, who cares if they hate f*gs?" It's ridiculous.


I think this point of view is hilarious.
 
2012-10-05 01:04:14 AM  
This would be the same BSA that functions as the Match.com for pedos? Well, at least they have hard, firm moral ground to stand upon with their wide stance.
 
2012-10-05 01:04:25 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: are you really this f*cking stupid

You said: hundreds of thousands of hours of labor translates to a couple of billion dollars worth of value. Using 500,000 hours, that works out to $4,000 for each hour of labor.

That's your claim. And that makes me stupid?


pretty much, yeah.
 
2012-10-05 01:05:52 AM  

Weaver95: Keizer_Ghidorah: Oh, whoopee, they helped out nature. Gee, they did nice things for some people. I guess that means they're free to be assholes towards others as a form of reward or something.

I clean empty lots and help at soup kitchens, therefore I'm entitled to discriminate against Asians because they're not the same as me and I feel they're an affront to God and Jesus.

sorry man - the world isn't always black and white. you drive the BSA out of your local communities and well...you'll pay a price for it. actions, consequences, blah blah blah.


What consequences? The people living in those areas can do those jobs just as easily, and they'd get the money instead. The kids can always join Little League or something if they need a group to belong to.

Fark bigots, plain and simple. You use your ancient religion to discriminate and hate, you can shove rusty nails in your eyes for all I care. Meanwhile the rest of us will be decent human beings.
 
2012-10-05 01:06:26 AM  

Weaver95: The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: then talk to your elected officials about the fedgov and how they pay federal contractors.

What does that have to do with your claim that Boy Scout labor is worth $4,000 per hour? You're going to have to try a lot harder to change the subject.

are you really this f*cking stupid or do you just hate the fact that the BSA makes up rules that you don't like and cannot force them to change...?

short answer - the BSA puts in a LOT of free labor. quibble on the details if you'd like...but they put a lot of work into conservation projects and volunteer work. I'd say that MORE than earns them a couple of perks for their organization. hell, it's a bargain for the states with all that free labor.


Here we go again...
Although somehow we've sunk from a "hell of a lot" to just "a LOT". But since it's in all caps, does that mean it's more? Hard to tell. Of course, a few posts earlier it was "a wash". This sure is confusing! But what he know for sure is...um...bigotry is justified if free labor is offered. Even though it's totally not free.
 
2012-10-05 01:07:24 AM  

Weaver95: The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: are you really this f*cking stupid

You said: hundreds of thousands of hours of labor translates to a couple of billion dollars worth of value. Using 500,000 hours, that works out to $4,000 for each hour of labor.

That's your claim. And that makes me stupid?

pretty much, yeah.


Your claim makes everyone stupid, from hearing it.
 
2012-10-05 01:07:53 AM  

obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.


Do they exclude gays?
 
2012-10-05 01:08:06 AM  

Weaver95: pretty much, yeah.


That's fine. If me thinking your claim that Boy Scout labor is worth $4,000 per hour means I'm stupid, I can live with that... because I most certainly do not think Boy Scout labor is worth $4,000 per hour.

Does that make the five hours a week that I volunteer worth $20,000?
 
2012-10-05 01:08:49 AM  

Weaver95: so you wanna take the position that the BSA doesn't put in a lot of time and effort with conservation efforts around the country? you REALLY wanna go that route?


Moving the goalposts, eh?
 
2012-10-05 01:08:50 AM  
I have seen several examples in this thread that 'pedophile scout masters' make people wary of gay scouts. What? If some guy goes around raping young girls, that doesn't make everyone suddenly suspect all the straight people of being pedophiles. And yet it's perfectly acceptable to make that assumption about gays because of a few pedophiles.

And this is putting aside that pedophilia is *not* the same as being gay, regardless of what gender they commit the crime against.

/I'm tired and annoyed so I hope that made sense.
 
2012-10-05 01:08:59 AM  

rwfan: Rather than mailing in your eagle patch, which would be something that only the BSA would know about and would be easily ignored, you should make a public statement. The BSA claims that they ban gays because that is what their members want. If the members make it clear that that is not true then the BSA might change their policy.


I agree - turning away from the organization is not a recipe for changing it, if you want it changed. These guys mailing in their patches are like the people who threaten to leave the country every time the party they don't support takes power. If you are an Eagle Scout and you don't like this, the solution is to get active on some level and complain - repeatedly - and work to see to it that things change. But also, the Scouts needs people to help find solutions to a difficult problem.
Scouts has a problem with being a magnet for pedophiles, but the organization mistakenly equates pedophilia with homosexuality. Jerry Sandusky was married and so are a lot of pedos, so clearly the policy is missing the mark. Cases like this one, where a boy's childhood achievements are trampled upon are particularly sad and wrong and clearly misguided, IMO.
But even more sad and wrong are children victimized by predators. Scouting needs to figure out how to completely eliminate predators from its midst or it will surely enter the dustbin of history.
 
2012-10-05 01:09:14 AM  
26.media.tumblr.com
 
zez
2012-10-05 01:09:19 AM  

DubyaHater: I'm sure this kid knew the consequences of coming out of the closet. He stood up in the face of bigotry and announced to the world he is a homosexual. He's proven he's stronger and more confident than any Eagle Scout. Good for him for not being intimidated by some antiquated organization from the early 20th century. If I could give him his Eagle Scout badge, I would.


I wonder if I could send him my eagle scout badge?
 
2012-10-05 01:10:05 AM  

eddiesocket: Here we go again...
Although somehow we've sunk from a "hell of a lot" to just "a LOT". But since it's in all caps, does that mean it's more? Hard to tell. Of course, a few posts earlier it was "a wash". This sure is confusing! But what he know for sure is...um...bigotry is justified if free labor is offered. Even though it's totally not free.


Earlier he said it was a couple hundred thousand man-hours of work at a value of a couple billion dollars. Those Boy Scouts must work really hard to be worth thousands of dollars per hour.
 
2012-10-05 01:10:27 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they exclude gays?


They don't exclude anyone. He's a liar.
 
2012-10-05 01:11:01 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they exclude gays?


I guess if the military excluded gays in past wars, then yes the VFW does.
 
2012-10-05 01:11:03 AM  

obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.


Do they require you not to be gay, or not black, or not something that's biological and unchangeable? If not, then you just made a really stupid attempt at a comparison.
 
2012-10-05 01:12:07 AM  
Weaver95: so you wanna take the position that the BSA doesn't put in a lot of time and effort with conservation efforts around the country? you REALLY wanna go that route?

Who said any such thing? I'm sure the Boy Scouts do a lot of volunteer work for conservation efforts. I just disagree with your claim that their work is worth $4,000 per man hour.
 
2012-10-05 01:12:44 AM  

Weaver95: Keizer_Ghidorah: Oh, whoopee, they helped out nature. Gee, they did nice things for some people. I guess that means they're free to be assholes towards others as a form of reward or something.

I clean empty lots and help at soup kitchens, therefore I'm entitled to discriminate against Asians because they're not the same as me and I feel they're an affront to God and Jesus.


sorry man - the world isn't always black and white. you drive the BSA out of your local communities and well...you'll pay a price for it. actions, consequences, blah blah blah.


No one's saying the BSA should be run out of anywhere. We're only saying if they're going to insist on pushing their "We're a PRIVATE org, nyah nyah!" line, then fine, let them pay their fair share, just like every other private org has to. No more free rides on the public dime. It's rationally irrelevajnt how much they do in the community, and it's absolutely untrue that "very few" other groups do. LOTS of groups do, just about everywhere. The BSA goes camping and tells boys God will smite them if they're queer. That's not the kind of 'community service' this taxpayer is enthusiastic about in her own community. Yours may be different. But here, we have actual laws against such discrimination in accommodation and public spaces, and that means that taxpayers are not allowed to fund any such thing. But when the BSA uses one of our schools for free, that's what's actually happening. It's not a 'wash'; it's actually illegal, and it doesn't matter what or how much else they do that's "good".
 
2012-10-05 01:14:55 AM  

Dalrint: I have seen several examples in this thread that 'pedophile scout masters' make people wary of gay scouts. What? If some guy goes around raping young girls, that doesn't make everyone suddenly suspect all the straight people of being pedophiles. And yet it's perfectly acceptable to make that assumption about gays because of a few pedophiles.

And this is putting aside that pedophilia is *not* the same as being gay, regardless of what gender they commit the crime against.

/I'm tired and annoyed so I hope that made sense.


Further to this, these clowns are also implying that it would be perfectly safe to leave your young daughter in the care of Jerry Sandusky for an afternoon while you go out and do some shopping, on the basis that he's a so-called gay paedophile. Ummm, hell no.
 
2012-10-05 01:15:22 AM  

eddiesocket: stiletto_the_wise: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they exclude gays?

They don't exclude anyone. He's a liar.


Link
No campaign medal, no VFW membership=exclusionary membership requirements.
 
2012-10-05 01:16:19 AM  

Weaver95: eddiesocket: Weaver95: Sylvia_Bandersnatch:
There's more to it than that, though. BSA groups also get off-book funding of a sort, in the form of free provisions from publicly-owned, taxpayer-funded facilities and resources. It's long been the practice in many communities, for example, to let the BSA use facilities such as public school spaces for free -- spaces that other non-profits would be asked to pay to use. That amounts to taxpayer support.

not really. I mean...consider all the effort the BSA puts into their local communities. again - everything from volunteer work to conservation efforts. VERY few other organizations do that for local communities. I think it's a wash as far as this talking point goes.

Well, we certainly can't argue with your solid stats.

it's 1am and f*ck you if think i'm gonna go wade thru google searches looking for verified stats on just how many man hours the BSA puts in per year on conservation work across the USA. short answer? lots. longer answer: HELL of a lot.


You're missing my point. It's irrelevant. ANY use of public space is public accommodation. Public accommodation in violation of law is illegal. That's all there is to this. There's nothing to look up, no accounting to be done. The BSA can paint every fire hydrant in town, but if they spend fifteen minutes in a public school gym that everyone else has to pay for, and they don't pay, and that jurisdiction bans discrimination against gays, then the law has been broken.

That's all we're saying: Private org, private rights, fine. But from now on you pay just like everyone else. If you don't want to obey our laws, then we can't legally extend you any public favours.
 
2012-10-05 01:18:07 AM  

Aussie_As: Dalrint: I have seen several examples in this thread that 'pedophile scout masters' make people wary of gay scouts. What? If some guy goes around raping young girls, that doesn't make everyone suddenly suspect all the straight people of being pedophiles. And yet it's perfectly acceptable to make that assumption about gays because of a few pedophiles.

And this is putting aside that pedophilia is *not* the same as being gay, regardless of what gender they commit the crime against.

/I'm tired and annoyed so I hope that made sense.

Further to this, these clowns are also implying that it would be perfectly safe to leave your young daughter in the care of Jerry Sandusky for an afternoon while you go out and do some shopping, on the basis that he's a so-called gay paedophile. Ummm, hell no.


They seem to either forget or ignore that a paedophile is someone attracted to children below the age of puberty, and they either forget or ignore that girls are as much the victims as boys. Because if they did remember or pay attention to those details, they wouldn't be able to use their "ALL GAYS ARE PEDOS!" idiocy.
 
2012-10-05 01:18:44 AM  

obamadidcoke: eddiesocket: stiletto_the_wise: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they exclude gays?

They don't exclude anyone. He's a liar.

Link
No campaign medal, no VFW membership=exclusionary membership requirements.


Wow. So you're just very, very stupid. Got it.
 
2012-10-05 01:19:24 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they require you not to be gay, or not black, or not something that's biological and unchangeable? If not, then you just made a really stupid attempt at a comparison.


The origins of homosexuality are unknown. There is no concretely genetic link, just as there is no concrete psychological link. Further, current research indicates that some individuals change sexual identity over time.
 
2012-10-05 01:21:16 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Aussie_As: Dalrint: I have seen several examples in this thread that 'pedophile scout masters' make people wary of gay scouts. What? If some guy goes around raping young girls, that doesn't make everyone suddenly suspect all the straight people of being pedophiles. And yet it's perfectly acceptable to make that assumption about gays because of a few pedophiles.

And this is putting aside that pedophilia is *not* the same as being gay, regardless of what gender they commit the crime against.

/I'm tired and annoyed so I hope that made sense.

Further to this, these clowns are also implying that it would be perfectly safe to leave your young daughter in the care of Jerry Sandusky for an afternoon while you go out and do some shopping, on the basis that he's a so-called gay paedophile. Ummm, hell no.

They seem to either forget or ignore that a paedophile is someone attracted to children below the age of puberty, and they either forget or ignore that girls are as much the victims as boys. Because if they did remember or pay attention to those details, they wouldn't be able to use their "ALL GAYS ARE PEDOS!" idiocy.


Also, most are married to women, even the ones who molest boys. Which makes sense. If you were attracted to little boys, you probably would want to hide that as much as possible. Openly gay men are already looked at with suspicion by many. If you're a pedophile, get yourself a wife.
 
2012-10-05 01:21:33 AM  

obamadidcoke: eddiesocket: stiletto_the_wise: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they exclude gays?

They don't exclude anyone. He's a liar.

Link
No campaign medal, no VFW membership=exclusionary membership requirements.


Don't see anything involving, race, gender, or sexual orientation. How is this similar to the BSA?
 
2012-10-05 01:21:38 AM  

Aussie_As: it would be perfectly safe to leave your young daughter in the care of Jerry Sandusky for an afternoon while you go out and do some shopping, on the basis that he's a so-called gay paedophile. Ummm, hell no.


Wouldn't it? Didn't he target boys exclusively?
 
2012-10-05 01:22:50 AM  

eddiesocket: If you're a pedophile, get yourself a wife.


Or get in a profession where you won't be questioned for being a bachelor. Like a Priest.
 
2012-10-05 01:23:46 AM  

obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they require you not to be gay, or not black, or not something that's biological and unchangeable? If not, then you just made a really stupid attempt at a comparison.

The origins of homosexuality are unknown. There is no concretely genetic link, just as there is no concrete psychological link. Further, current research indicates that some individuals change sexual identity over time.


Considering it's prevalent throughout the animal kingdom and has been documented for millennia, it's safe to say it's genetic in some way. Otherwise why would straight parents produce gay children?
 
2012-10-05 01:25:11 AM  

obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they require you not to be gay, or not black, or not something that's biological and unchangeable? If not, then you just made a really stupid attempt at a comparison.

The origins of homosexuality are unknown. There is no concretely genetic link, just as there is no concrete psychological link. Further, current research indicates that some individuals change sexual identity over time.


sooo... they make a conscience choice in some cases?

/That might explain why I went lesbian
 
2012-10-05 01:25:59 AM  
The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.
 
2012-10-05 01:27:28 AM  

spamdog: Aussie_As: it would be perfectly safe to leave your young daughter in the care of Jerry Sandusky for an afternoon while you go out and do some shopping, on the basis that he's a so-called gay paedophile. Ummm, hell no.

Wouldn't it? Didn't he target boys exclusively?


Well if you want to do that, your parenting skills are very scary. Courts don't ban paedophiles from contact with only boys or only girls for a very good reason.

Sandusky was a football coach. It follows that he had far more access to boys than girls, because parents were happy to drop their sons off to attend football programs which their daughters weren't interested in and even if they were, they'd have been using different shower facilities which Sandusky didn't have rights to access. I would suggest that is the reason for the exclusivity. European wolves don't tend to attack Australian wallabies on the basis they're on different continents, not because wallabies wouldn't be tasty to wolves.
 
2012-10-05 01:28:18 AM  

Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.


He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?
 
2012-10-05 01:28:40 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: eddiesocket: stiletto_the_wise: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they exclude gays?

They don't exclude anyone. He's a liar.

Link
No campaign medal, no VFW membership=exclusionary membership requirements.

Don't see anything involving, race, gender, or sexual orientation. How is this similar to the BSA?


Simple, exclusionary membership policies keep certain people out and let certain people in.
Of course if you want to look at state supported private organizations the Bar Association is probably the gold standard. If you are not a member of this organization you basically can't practice law in the U.S.
 
2012-10-05 01:29:59 AM  

obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: eddiesocket: stiletto_the_wise: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they exclude gays?

They don't exclude anyone. He's a liar.

Link
No campaign medal, no VFW membership=exclusionary membership requirements.

Don't see anything involving, race, gender, or sexual orientation. How is this similar to the BSA?

Simple, exclusionary membership policies keep certain people out and let certain people in.
Of course if you want to look at state supported private organizations the Bar Association is probably the gold standard. If you are not a member of this organization you basically can't practice law in the U.S.


You pretending to be this obtuse is fooling exactly no one.
 
2012-10-05 01:30:22 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they require you not to be gay, or not black, or not something that's biological and unchangeable? If not, then you just made a really stupid attempt at a comparison.

The origins of homosexuality are unknown. There is no concretely genetic link, just as there is no concrete psychological link. Further, current research indicates that some individuals change sexual identity over time.

Considering it's prevalent throughout the animal kingdom and has been documented for millennia, it's safe to say it's genetic in some way. Otherwise why would straight parents produce gay children?


You are new to genetics aren't you.
 
2012-10-05 01:32:01 AM  
As a former Eagle Scout, this is DISGUSTING. I say former because I am one of the Eagle Scouts that returned his award to the BSA.

While i am not gay myself, i learned from the Boy Scouts of America what it means to stand up for your principles and what is right.

Shame on the BSA and (especially) the Mormon church for completely ruining the Scouts.

The BSA is *NOT* and never was intended to be an extension on your religion.
 
2012-10-05 01:32:49 AM  

Weaver95: And late Thursday, the Boy Scouts of America said in a statement that because of Andresen's sexual orientation and that he did not agree to Scouting's principle of "Duty to God," "he is no longer eligible for membership in Scouting."

well, yeah - I mean it's their club house, the BSA sets the rules on this one. If they say 'no gay eagle scouts' then they won't let anyone gay become an eagle scout. you might not like their rules...but you do have to respect the right of the BSA to set their own rules for their own membership.. don't like the rules, don't join the scouts.


Agreed. Also, no more meeting in or on public facilities/property for free and no public funding. How do you get around the 'chartered by congress' thing? That's pretty embarrassing, not to mention unconstitutional.
 
2012-10-05 01:37:18 AM  

Aussie_As: Courts don't ban paedophiles from contact with only boys or only girls for a very good reason.


I'm pretty sure that's because some pedophiles are bisexual (like the rest of the population), but that doesn't mean all of them are - or even a plurality. Also I'm pretty sure it's because kids are around other kids quite a lot, too.

You don't think Sandusky would have made a conscious choice to build his career in a place where he would be around boys?

Of course this is all speculative, but I think there's a lot of "popular wisdom" about pedophilia which isn't necessarily true.
 
2012-10-05 01:37:55 AM  

obamadidcoke: Simple, exclusionary membership policies keep certain people out and let certain people in.
Of course if you want to look at state supported private organizations the Bar Association is probably the gold standard. If you are not a member of this organization you basically can't practice law in the U.S.


Bar Association doesn't exclude people based on gender, skin color, or sexual orientation, does it? No? Then it's not the same as BSA. Why are you willfully being so stupid?

obamadidcoke: You are new to genetics aren't you.


You just said yourself that there's no concrete link between homosexuality and genetics. Are you changing your mind?
 
2012-10-05 01:37:58 AM  

Cheesus: I live in a state that overwhelmingly banned gay marriage. A majority of the US just doesn't like homosexuals. Give it another 10-20 years.


Wrong. Polls from this year show consistently 50-55% of Americans support legal gay marriage. It's the obstructionist party that is keeping this from happening most places.


As for the boy scouts, many of the leaders were openly homophobic when I was in it, and there were no mormons involved, this was straight up protestant.
 
2012-10-05 01:40:39 AM  
Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.
 
2012-10-05 01:41:41 AM  
I think there is a point we are missing.

Scouting is actually teaching a great life lesson here.

If you want to get ahead in life you have to learn to lie. Eagle Scout looks pretty good on college apps and early resumes. There is no comparable for boys. If you want that leg-up in the market - learn to lie. This valuable skill will be immeasurably useful in preparing you for life in America.

So consider it the unwritten 13th part of the Boy Scout Law. A boy scout is deceitful (when it is necessary to accomplish an otherwise worthy goal).

/eagle scout
//not sure if I will enroll my 5 year old son next year...
 
2012-10-05 01:42:38 AM  

obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.


Im not a BSA hater, but as someone who spent more than two decades associated with them, their recent actions are shameful.
 
2012-10-05 01:43:52 AM  

The more you eat the more you fart: obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.

Im not a BSA hater, but as someone who spent more than two decades associated with them, their recent actions are shameful.


not sure how recent their stance on homosexuality is
 
2012-10-05 01:44:01 AM  
No gay scouts, but they have all those perverted, butt-farking leaders?

Yes, I se how that works - only priests as leaders.
 
2012-10-05 01:44:51 AM  

spamdog: Aussie_As: Courts don't ban paedophiles from contact with only boys or only girls for a very good reason.

I'm pretty sure that's because some pedophiles are bisexual (like the rest of the population), but that doesn't mean all of them are - or even a plurality. Also I'm pretty sure it's because kids are around other kids quite a lot, too.

You don't think Sandusky would have made a conscious choice to build his career in a place where he would be around boys?

Of course this is all speculative, but I think there's a lot of "popular wisdom" about pedophilia which isn't necessarily true.


Any parent accused of neglecting their daughter because they left them in the care of a known paedophile who ran the defense "but he only abused boys" would be (metaphorically) crucified by the courts. The big danger to public safety of making claims on-line or in general conversation that so-and-so is a gay paedophile is that some idiot parent is one day going to accept this as conventional wisdom and leave their daughter in the hands of a known paedophile on this basis. If you want that on your hands, so be it. I'm certainly not taking that risk.

Maybe some paedophiles are genuinely exclusively only into boys. I think it's much more likely that they'll take any port in a storm. Prepubescent boys and girls are physically not too different.
 
2012-10-05 01:45:46 AM  

obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.


You gotta love people who do this. "Hurr hurr I helped someone you don't like, suck it teeheehee". I thought it was a mental frame that people outgrew by age 12.
 
2012-10-05 01:49:52 AM  
What could be gayer than putting on neckerchiefs and hanging out alone with a bunch of dudes?

/Former Eagle scout- sent the badge back.
//It's embarrassing
 
2012-10-05 01:50:17 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.

You gotta love people who do this. "Hurr hurr I helped someone you don't like, suck it teeheehee". I thought it was a mental frame that people outgrew by age 12.


It's not about you, (regardless of what your mommy told you) it's about giving to a worthy cause.

You should try it some time, dickhead.
 
2012-10-05 01:51:56 AM  

obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.

You gotta love people who do this. "Hurr hurr I helped someone you don't like, suck it teeheehee". I thought it was a mental frame that people outgrew by age 12.

It's not about you, (regardless of what your mommy told you) it's about giving to a worthy cause.

You should try it some time, dickhead.


And you're so insecure you have to brag about your "worthy cause" donations.
 
2012-10-05 01:55:07 AM  

12349876: obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.

You gotta love people who do this. "Hurr hurr I helped someone you don't like, suck it teeheehee". I thought it was a mental frame that people outgrew by age 12.

It's not about you, (regardless of what your mommy told you) it's about giving to a worthy cause.

You should try it some time, dickhead.

And you're so insecure you have to brag about your "worthy cause" donations.


Lol
 
2012-10-05 01:55:58 AM  

obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.

You gotta love people who do this. "Hurr hurr I helped someone you don't like, suck it teeheehee". I thought it was a mental frame that people outgrew by age 12.

It's not about you, (regardless of what your mommy told you) it's about giving to a worthy cause.

You should try it some time, dickhead.


No it wasnt. You said so yourself, dickhead.
 
2012-10-05 01:56:27 AM  

12349876: obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.

You gotta love people who do this. "Hurr hurr I helped someone you don't like, suck it teeheehee". I thought it was a mental frame that people outgrew by age 12.

It's not about you, (regardless of what your mommy told you) it's about giving to a worthy cause.

You should try it some time, dickhead.

And you're so insecure you have to brag about your "worthy cause" donations.


Not sure how that makes me insecure, but okay. My point is that anyone who really believes in a cause should support it with more than words on the internet.
 
2012-10-05 02:00:04 AM  

Aussie_As: If you want that on your hands, so be it. I'm certainly not taking that risk.


I'm just asking hypothetically. In practice, I wouldn't leave my kid (I don't have kids) with a known pedophile. But still - from what I've read, most pedophiles are exclusively into one sex or the other.
 
2012-10-05 02:00:17 AM  

obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.

You gotta love people who do this. "Hurr hurr I helped someone you don't like, suck it teeheehee". I thought it was a mental frame that people outgrew by age 12.

It's not about you, (regardless of what your mommy told you) it's about giving to a worthy cause.

You should try it some time, dickhead.


No, I'm pretty sure it was about us "BSA haters", since you stated as much. (And likely didn't donate anything, anyway).
/"Worthy" causes don't discriminate.
 
2012-10-05 02:07:48 AM  

eddiesocket: obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.

You gotta love people who do this. "Hurr hurr I helped someone you don't like, suck it teeheehee". I thought it was a mental frame that people outgrew by age 12.

It's not about you, (regardless of what your mommy told you) it's about giving to a worthy cause.

You should try it some time, dickhead.

No, I'm pretty sure it was about us "BSA haters", since you stated as much. (And likely didn't donate anything, anyway).
/"Worthy" causes don't discriminate.


It's worthy to me and it's got my support and my money so get over it you pointless troll.

Thanks for keeping me amused this evening and thanks for reminding me that I needed to give to BSA.
/Good night and good luck with your continued trolling.
 
2012-10-05 02:10:22 AM  

obamadidcoke: 12349876: obamadidcoke: Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Link

I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.

You gotta love people who do this. "Hurr hurr I helped someone you don't like, suck it teeheehee". I thought it was a mental frame that people outgrew by age 12.

It's not about you, (regardless of what your mommy told you) it's about giving to a worthy cause.

You should try it some time, dickhead.

And you're so insecure you have to brag about your "worthy cause" donations.

Not sure how that makes me insecure, but okay. My point is that anyone who really believes in a cause should support it with more than words on the internet.


And numerous people in this thread have done so. But they don't feel the need to brag about all the money they've sent. And sending back your eagle scout badge is one hell of a way to support a cause. The ballot box is another great way.
 
mhd
2012-10-05 02:17:26 AM  
Was a scout for a very short time, so I just went to check how my old group is treating this. Well, quite a surprise: Fully supportive of LBGT, first Catholic youth organization to do so (couple of years back).

German youth organizations come a long way...
 
2012-10-05 02:20:25 AM  
I earned the rank of Eagle Scout. And this is bullsh*t.
 
2012-10-05 02:33:35 AM  

Weaver95: stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: ah, so the BSA do have SOME differences from the KKK. lets go a bit further.

do the boy scouts organize gangs to go out and 'curb stomp' gays and minorities like the KKK does?

You can still be a hate group and not openly make use of physical violence to express your hate.

ooook, so there's a point of difference. the KKK goes out and uses physical threats and intimidation while the BSA...does what again exactly? oh, right...doesn't let gays join their reindeer games.

not exactly the same sorts of organizations after all, are they?


You don't hesitate to call others out on their hypocrisy, Weaver? Why the sudden white-knighting of the BSA? Why suddenly the "o they're a private organization they can do what they like" piousness? I never saw you say this for, say, the Catholic Church or the Baptists.
 
2012-10-05 02:34:31 AM  

mhd: Was a scout for a very short time, so I just went to check how my old group is treating this. Well, quite a surprise: Fully supportive of LBGT, first Catholic youth organization to do so (couple of years back).

German youth organizations come a long way...


CINOs.
The Catholic Church is very strongly against it, going so far as to campaign against it in third world hellholes and even take it so far as to oppose UN resolutions to encourage decriminalization of it worldwide:
link
 
2012-10-05 02:37:36 AM  

obamadidcoke: I just donated $100 to my local area council. I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been reminded about BSA by this thread. I guess you BSA haters just helped the Boy Scouts, congratulations.


You're free to donate your money to whatever group you like. Nobody here cares in the least. We do care, however, when it's in-kind support funded by tax dollars.
 
2012-10-05 02:39:11 AM  

Theaetetus: reaperducer: Don't believe in what the Scouts believe? Then don't join.

I thought the Scouts believed in covering up tens of thousands of instances of child rape. Simply "not joining" doesn't seem to be enough of a response.


That was gay people attempting to corrupt our kids, we need to protect our kids and ban gays from public life until we can find a cure for this sickness
 
2012-10-05 02:43:59 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business.

obamadidcoke: This is a private organization that is allowed to regulate it's membership.

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Private organization. Right or wrong (I think it is wrong), they can do what they want.

OK, if they're a private organization, then cut off their government support so my taxes aren't helping run a hate group.


We raise our own money and not for nothing we pay taxes too, so get bent. We are making leaders for tomorrow the gay spread disease and disgrace.
 
2012-10-05 02:51:33 AM  
God Damn it BSA.............

Take my Eagle medal you bigoted pieces of shiat, and farking choke on it

Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow, and former JASM. I am very proud of me Eagle rank. I worked really hard for it. I spent many a weekend recycling glass, cleaning roads, dump sites, park trails, building bird houses, and a myriad of other worthy community causes. Boy Scouts taught me how to lead, be independant, and an all around decent human being. I learned skills in Scouts that use every single day of my life. I have Eagle Scout on my resume, and for the first time in my life it's accomplishment I'm considering removing.

Damn you and your pseudo-christian Bullshiat. Damn you for ruining one of the greatest things from my childhood. You old bigoted self righteous bastards. I hate you. This young man for all appearances seems to exemplify everything scouting is supposed to stand for, and you blatantly deny him something he very much deserves. Damn you damn you damn you. I've had it.

I just found a website called scoutingforall. They have an address to send my badges and awards to. They'll be soon getting a box with my uniform, OA sash, and felt box that holds my most precious childhood accomplishment. I was going to send it to the BSA, but I think sending it to scoutingforall might be better.
 
2012-10-05 03:16:09 AM  

Weaver95: . don't like it, don't join the organization.


Way late, but:
You outright ignored the actual problem here. A child joining the boy scouts (or his parents making him join) probably isn't going to know his sexual preference before spending a few years in the group. To place all the "blame" on them when they come to a realization and are forced to choose between being honest to themselves or hiding like a hunchback is damned silly.

Regardless, a government should not be sponsoring in ANY way a group that is so blatantly "only these groups allowed" discriminatory. Whether they're rather benign, or as destructive as the KKK, it really doesn't matter.
 
2012-10-05 03:16:59 AM  

mighty_maxx: God Damn it BSA.............

Take my Eagle medal you bigoted pieces of shiat, and farking choke on it

Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow, and former JASM. I am very proud of me Eagle rank. I worked really hard for it. I spent many a weekend recycling glass, cleaning roads, dump sites, park trails, building bird houses, and a myriad of other worthy community causes. Boy Scouts taught me how to lead, be independant, and an all around decent human being. I learned skills in Scouts that use every single day of my life. I have Eagle Scout on my resume, and for the first time in my life it's accomplishment I'm considering removing.

Damn you and your pseudo-christian Bullshiat. Damn you for ruining one of the greatest things from my childhood. You old bigoted self righteous bastards. I hate you. This young man for all appearances seems to exemplify everything scouting is supposed to stand for, and you blatantly deny him something he very much deserves. Damn you damn you damn you. I've had it.

I just found a website called scoutingforall. They have an address to send my badges and awards to. They'll be soon getting a box with my uniform, OA sash, and felt box that holds my most precious childhood accomplishment. I was going to send it to the BSA, but I think sending it to scoutingforall might be better.


From another eagle scout who already sent in his medal and OA sash: physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.
 
2012-10-05 03:27:31 AM  

Cheesus: They're a private organization and they can make whatever rules they want. My only complaint is forcing kids to attend their advertising pitches in public school.


Except that the BSA are kinda not a private organization since they benefit from government support.
 
2012-10-05 03:28:59 AM  

PsyLord: Sure. Time to revoke their tax exempt status and federal funding.


You know, if Romney really wants to save money by cutting minor items from the budget, maybe there's some other organization he could deep-six instead of PBS.
 
2012-10-05 03:35:39 AM  

cardex: Except most kids that make it egal start scouts in 2nd grade long before they think about sex at all so it's not a matter of not joining if your gay its them kicking out someone who worked 9 years


Being gay (or any other part of lbgtq) isn't necessarily about wanting to have sex with anyone. I knew I was bisexual in 4th grade. I wasn't thinking about having sex or even kissing anyone. I just knew in the 4th grade that you were supposed to like girls ONE way and like boys ANOTHER way and people thought it was bad and weird to like girls the same way you liked boys. I didn't know what "one way" and "another way" even WERE --- I just knew that they were supposed to be different somehow.
 
2012-10-05 03:44:25 AM  
When you earn Eagle Scout & enlist in the military don't you don't you automatically get a higher "rank" to Private First Class? Maybe it's time for that honor to be discontinued.
 
2012-10-05 03:47:15 AM  
On account of ongoing research in old newspapers on microfilm, I occasionally read Scouting columns that appeared in the mid-1930s.
All I can say is, Damn, you had to be smart just to earn merit badges back then!

Now, while I sympathize with the viewpoint of many who say It's a private group, stay away if you don't agree with their value set, I also believe in the dictum, "Those to whom much has been given, much is expected."

Meaning, Boy Scouts, you have a long and distinguished brand in which countless generations have place their trust and respect. Educated society now expects you not to slink off into the shadows of bigotry and ignorance, but to accept the demonstrable reality: Gays are not boogeymen and gay children are not defective, nor do they merit exclusion from your group. Anyone who interprets the Christian Bible as justifying otherwise is tragically wrong.
 
2012-10-05 03:47:38 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Weaver95:
not exactly the same sorts of organizations after all, are they?

I think the main branch, the Mormons themselves, offer the best comparison in this situation.

The Mormons buckled and accepted black people as human in 1978.
It will happen again with gays, but I think the Mormons and Catholics will be the last bulwarks against them.


The Official Declaration on blacks holding the priesthood was a pragmatic solution to a very real problem -- there weren't enough white priesthood holders to keep up with the explosive growth of the church in Brazil. It had nothing to do with civil rights or acceptance. The Mormons are going to be much more reluctant to accept homosexuality.

/gay
//ex-Mormon
///slashies are back in style
 
2012-10-05 03:50:40 AM  

Gyrfalcon: People suck. I'm moving to Mars.


No, not Mars. Boy Scouts Are From Mars, Girl Scouts Are From Venus. Find another planet.
 
2012-10-05 04:05:02 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers:
The Official Declaration on blacks holding the priesthood was a pragmatic solution to a very real problem -- there weren't enough white priesthood holders to keep up with the explosive growth of the church in Brazil. It had nothing to do with civil rights or acceptance. The Mormons are going to be much more reluctant to accept homosexuality.

/gay
//ex-Mormon
///slashies are back in style


Seriously? Damn, I need to read up on it. Thank you, sir.
Clever little hellspawn.
 
2012-10-05 04:07:03 AM  

WxGuy1: The problem, as others have stated above (and as the parent in TFA says), is that young CHILDREN join the cub scouts. These are 6-8 year olds who have no sexual feeling or identities.


Your point is valid, but just to nitpick. Children develop gender identity by age 3. Many transgender children identify as the opposite gender often from age two or three.. A significant percentage of homosexual (or bisexual) children at least have an inkling by age 10.

In my own personal experience, as I mentioned already in this thread, I knew by 4th grade. I probably knew on some level before then, but 4th grade is the earliest clear memory I have of needing to HIDE my sexual orientation from other people.

To give one example Bobby Montoya is a transgender girl who joined the Girl Scouts when she was 7 years old.
 
2012-10-05 04:10:59 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Keizer_Ghidorah:
God doesn't give a flying shiat about who you love and find attractive, why should we?

You speak for god?


That's ... kinda ironic coming from someone with the handle "God-is-a-Taco," you know.
 
2012-10-05 04:34:42 AM  
where is it declared which god they are referring to, and why isn't anyone challenging the board on it (least of all it forces them to do at least one of 2 things, 1- declare that they speak for god (which is blasphemous from what i recall in a few religions), 2- declare what type of religious type they are beholden to)?

cause who ever came up with the nail of "not doing your 'duty to god' via 'being gay'" just gave the person denied eagle scout status a rather massive hammer to seal that coffin.
 
2012-10-05 04:44:28 AM  

SuperTran: This same thing happened to me. Parents and church found out about teh gay a week before my board of review. Refused to recommend me for my Eagle.

/Damn Morons.


FTFY
 
2012-10-05 05:10:49 AM  
I was Cub scout and a boy scout and i am proud of that. but i am disgusted with the organization.
 
2012-10-05 05:31:23 AM  
Kingly Weevil
This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.

THIS. I didn't make eagle, but was order of the arrow and senior patrol leader. Had "speedy" (old gay guy) as one of the "leaders". Never made any moves. Being gay myself, before knowing what the f@ck then, all of us in summer camp did a jerk-off. See who is biggest. My god shortest guy was HUNG. As in jaw dropping BIG. Good thing I didn't have any tendencies back then...
 
2012-10-05 05:56:42 AM  
This just makes me very sad.
 
2012-10-05 06:13:34 AM  
And late Thursday, the Boy Scouts of America said in a statement that because of Andresen's sexual orientation and that he did not agree to Scouting's principle of "Duty to God," "he is no longer eligible for membership in Scouting."

/And that's the game, thanks for playing folks. Good luck getting anyone except ultra right wing conservatives in the scouts. This statement and your lack of reporting child buggering makes you seem as bad as the catholic church, who's membership is declining. Good job.
 
2012-10-05 06:14:26 AM  
Discrimination is bad, but I also sort of don't want my son camping in the woods with other boys who are homosexuals, just like I wouldn't want him camping with girls.
 
2012-10-05 06:17:58 AM  
Yeah, I wouldn't trust him around children either.
 
2012-10-05 06:24:01 AM  

ransack.: Discrimination is bad, but I also sort of don't want my son camping in the woods with other boys who are homosexuals, just like I wouldn't want him camping with girls.


Girls are allowed in scouts around here (and I suspect so are luvers of their own sex.)

Mind you the BEST times I ever had at scouts was at the mixed Guides & Scouts Jamborees - why should the gays get all the fun :p
 
2012-10-05 06:28:09 AM  
Oy vey. Way to go, BSA.
 
2012-10-05 06:32:30 AM  

ciberido: God-is-a-Taco: Keizer_Ghidorah:
God doesn't give a flying shiat about who you love and find attractive, why should we?

You speak for god?

That's ... kinda ironic coming from someone with the handle "God-is-a-Taco," you know.


All I did was identify his corporeal form. I won't claim to speak of his crunchy ways.

He did tell me that you're getting coal in your stockings this year, though.
 
2012-10-05 06:49:28 AM  

Alonjar: I'm not homophobic.. but


Yes. Yes you are.

/never follow up a denial with a "but"
 
2012-10-05 07:03:44 AM  

Alonjar: For the record, I support peoples right to be gay.. if that does it for you, good for you.

HOWEVER... you cant deny the elephant in the room in regards to gay scout masters/elders. While it sucks to paint innocent gays with such a tainted brush, I can understand the concerns of parents with leaving their children under the supervision of gay adults who actively seek interaction with little boys. Its just... sketchy. The boy scouts of america have an image to keep up, and saying "leave your little boy with gay uncle jimmy!" just leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths.

I'm not homophobic.. but theres just certain things people wont be comfortable with, and this is one of them. The risk of damaging the reputation of the boy scouts in the same fashion as the Catholic church is too large for them to bear, and I understand.

I'm not saying its right... but I understand.


Then they should stop taking taxpayers money for funding. Actually the government should basically state that.
If I had got to eagle scouts (I didn't, I discovered girls) I would send this guy my badge
 
2012-10-05 07:21:54 AM  
farked up that they said he couldn't be an Eagle scout because he likes cock.

farked up that someone signed up on that stupid farking wall as an Eagle project.
 
2012-10-05 07:28:00 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Weaver95: so you really, honestly believe that the Boy Scouts are in all ways identical to the KKK? that's what yer going with here?

I never said "in all ways". In the particular way called "being a hate group" I would say they are the same, apart from their targets.


So are Democrats. Everyone is a hate group.
 
2012-10-05 07:41:30 AM  

unlikely: fark these guys.

Next time I walk into a grocery store and they're trying to sell me popcorn I will say "sorry, I'm gay" and keep walking.

No need to be rude or anything, just no way I'm supporting them any more.


We're selling popc
 
2012-10-05 07:48:12 AM  

Weaver95: I don't know why you'd care in the first place. you don't have to like the BSA 'no gays' rule but it's their club house...they can make up whatever rules they want for their membership. SCOTUS even said so


I don't know if you can really say it is "their" clubhouse when the govt does give them support.
 
2012-10-05 08:02:55 AM  

Dalrint: I have seen several examples in this thread that 'pedophile scout masters' make people wary of gay scouts. What? If some guy goes around raping young girls, that doesn't make everyone suddenly suspect all the straight people of being pedophiles. And yet it's perfectly acceptable to make that assumption about gays because of a few pedophiles.

And this is putting aside that pedophilia is *not* the same as being gay, regardless of what gender they commit the crime against.

/I'm tired and annoyed so I hope that made sense.


I'd be more comfortable leaving my daughter with a gay male. If that gay male is a pedophile, he would seek out boys to molest and not my daughter. I'd be much less comfortable leaving my daughter in the care of a straight male.

Likewise, if my son is going on an overnight trip under the supervision of some guy, I'd be much more comfortable if that guy were straight and not gay. Because gay pedophiles molest boys.

And pedophilia isn't equal to gay, you are correct. But if a guy molests a boy, he's gay. By definition.
 
2012-10-05 08:04:05 AM  

liam76: Weaver95: I don't know why you'd care in the first place. you don't have to like the BSA 'no gays' rule but it's their club house...they can make up whatever rules they want for their membership. SCOTUS even said so

I don't know if you can really say it is "their" clubhouse when the govt does give them support.


How much support is given to the boy scouts? In what form?
 
2012-10-05 08:07:41 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Dalrint: I have seen several examples in this thread that 'pedophile scout masters' make people wary of gay scouts. What? If some guy goes around raping young girls, that doesn't make everyone suddenly suspect all the straight people of being pedophiles. And yet it's perfectly acceptable to make that assumption about gays because of a few pedophiles.

And this is putting aside that pedophilia is *not* the same as being gay, regardless of what gender they commit the crime against.

/I'm tired and annoyed so I hope that made sense.

I'd be more comfortable leaving my daughter with a gay male. If that gay male is a pedophile, he would seek out boys to molest and not my daughter. I'd be much less comfortable leaving my daughter in the care of a straight male.

Likewise, if my son is going on an overnight trip under the supervision of some guy, I'd be much more comfortable if that guy were straight and not gay. Because gay pedophiles molest boys.

And pedophilia isn't equal to gay, you are correct. But if a guy molests a boy, he's gay. By definition.


Sadly they will never admit that.
 
2012-10-05 08:13:11 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: obamadidcoke: Not allowing homosexuals doesn't make BSA a hate group. I belong to both the American Bar Association and the VFW both of these organizations have exclusionary membership requirements, but they are not hate groups.

Do they require you not to be gay, or not black, or not something that's biological and unchangeable? If not, then you just made a really stupid attempt at a comparison.


Are boy scouts a hate group against women?

I don't agree with the BSA's stance, I think it is BS given their stance (on gays and religion) that they get federal assistance, but there is agrey area between "can't join" and "hate group".
 
2012-10-05 08:30:50 AM  

Babwa Wawa: A "tolerance wall" is some kind of f*&cking copout for an Eagle project. An eagle service project should involve at least 40 person-hours of work.


I agree and so I was thinking "Maybe he didn't get the project approved before he went ahead with it.... Maybe the kid really just didn't earn the rank..."

But then I saw this in the article
"But a spokesman for the Boys Scouts, Deron Smith, told NBC News in a statement that Andresen recently "notified his unit leadership and Eagle Scout Counselor that he does not agree to Scouting's principle of 'Duty to God' and does not meet Scouting's membership standard on sexual orientation. "


Maybe the project didn't meet the requirements BUT the statement from the BSA cites that the kid himself notified the scouts that he doesn't qualify for membership in the organization. Sorry kid, they have rules and you didn't follow them. (I don't agree with the rules about the ghey and the god, but those are the rules)

Kid shoulda gamed the system by staying in the closet until he had the eagle then held the biggest, baddest, gayest, boy scout themed coming out party on the planet. AND invited the national news.
OR
Made his service project a presentation about the negative effects of discrimination on a society.

\ Cub scout leader (non-pedophile type)
\\ I always tell folks that my goal in scouting is helping good boys grow into good men.
\\\ Good men don't discriminate, neither should the BSA
 
2012-10-05 08:37:11 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: liam76: Weaver95: I don't know why you'd care in the first place. you don't have to like the BSA 'no gays' rule but it's their club house...they can make up whatever rules they want for their membership. SCOTUS even said so

I don't know if you can really say it is "their" clubhouse when the govt does give them support.

How much support is given to the boy scouts? In what form?


Are you unaware of their preferential treatment in many towns and cities? You were a boy scout right, never had a meeting in a school?

In cases where they don't get it over their stance they have been suing ?

You didn't know that the 2005 Jamboree, alone, cost the Us taxpayers about 8 million dollars?

How about the "Boy Scouts of America Centennial Commemorative Coin Act"?

In January 2006, Congress included the "Support Our Scouts Act of 2005" in its defense authorization bill. This law requires the Department of Defense to provide at least the same level of support for the BSA's national and world Jamborees as in past years. This law also requires any state or local government entity that receives Community Development Block Grant money from the Department of Housing and Urban Development to allow BSA to have meetings in their facilities or on their property. This requirement would override any of these entities' own anti-discrimination laws or regulations forbidding access to a discriminatory group such as the BSA. (linked above)

I got no problem with the BSA taking whatever stance they want on gays, or religion, but thwne they get that level of govt support it is farking BS.
 
2012-10-05 08:39:00 AM  

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: Babwa Wawa: A "tolerance wall" is some kind of f*&cking copout for an Eagle project. An eagle service project should involve at least 40 person-hours of work.

I agree and so I was thinking "Maybe he didn't get the project approved before he went ahead with it.... Maybe the kid really just didn't earn the rank..."

But then I saw this in the article
"But a spokesman for the Boys Scouts, Deron Smith, told NBC News in a statement that Andresen recently "notified his unit leadership and Eagle Scout Counselor that he does not agree to Scouting's principle of 'Duty to God' and does not meet Scouting's membership standard on sexual orientation. "


Maybe the project didn't meet the requirements BUT the statement from the BSA cites that the kid himself notified the scouts that he doesn't qualify for membership in the organization. Sorry kid, they have rules and you didn't follow them. (I don't agree with the rules about the ghey and the god, but those are the rules)

Kid shoulda gamed the system by staying in the closet until he had the eagle then held the biggest, baddest, gayest, boy scout themed coming out party on the planet. AND invited the national news.
OR
Made his service project a presentation about the negative effects of discrimination on a society.

\ Cub scout leader (non-pedophile type)
\\ I always tell folks that my goal in scouting is helping good boys grow into good men.
\\\ Good men don't discriminate, neither should the BSA


deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-05 08:41:10 AM  
Time for some one to stop crying and start their own "Gay Scouts".
 
2012-10-05 08:52:54 AM  
The organization itself is structured to allow discrimination against atheists and homosexuals. Individual troops have to be complicit in order for that discrimination to actually take place. There are plenty of troops that welcome atheists and homosexuals. However, it is unfortunate that it just takes one douchebag on the troop committee to start f*cking things up.
I'm sorry... I'm not sure if you're discussing the Boy Scouts or the SS. Which was it again?
 
2012-10-05 08:55:32 AM  
A Scout is:
Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful,
Friendly, Courteous, Kind,
Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty,
Brave, Clean, Reverent, and stays well away from those icky gays,
unless scout leader John comes into your tent at night, that will be our little secret
 
2012-10-05 08:56:06 AM  

clintp: The organization itself is structured to allow discrimination against atheists and homosexuals. Individual troops have to be complicit in order for that discrimination to actually take place. There are plenty of troops that welcome atheists and homosexuals. However, it is unfortunate that it just takes one douchebag on the troop committee to start f*cking things up.I'm sorry... I'm not sure if you're discussing the Boy Scouts or the SS. Which was it again?


So does that mean the Vetrans of Foreign Wars is discriminating against everyone who was not deployed to combat zone? That is a requirement of membership. Get your own club and stop trying to takeover someone elses club.
 
2012-10-05 09:03:41 AM  

Joe Blowme: Time for some one to stop crying and start their own "Gay Scouts".


Sure, so long as the government yanks all the support it gave the Boy Scouts and gives it all to the Gay Scouts instead. 

Maybe you could be a Scoutmaster, err, I mean, Gaymaster.
 
2012-10-05 09:05:16 AM  

Joe Blowme: So does that mean the Vetrans of Foreign Wars is discriminating against everyone who was not deployed to combat zone?


VFW welcomes people who have earned their medals and then come out.

Joe Blowme: Get your own club and stop trying to takeover someone elses club


When the "club" in question gets serious financial and material support from the govt, then it is my club.
 
2012-10-05 09:06:48 AM  

ciberido: Joe Blowme: Time for some one to stop crying and start their own "Gay Scouts".

Sure, so long as the government yanks all the support it gave the Boy Scouts and gives it all to the Gay Scouts instead. 

Maybe you could be a Scoutmaster, err, I mean, Gaymaster.


Im sure they too can apply for support, gov cant descriminate. So what is your deal again? Too lazy to do all the set up work yourself to create your own club?
 
2012-10-05 09:08:16 AM  

liam76: Joe Blowme: So does that mean the Vetrans of Foreign Wars is discriminating against everyone who was not deployed to combat zone?

VFW welcomes people who have earned their medals and then come out.

Joe Blowme: Get your own club and stop trying to takeover someone elses club

When the "club" in question gets serious financial and material support from the govt, then it is my club.


Yes but they have to be deployed to combat zone to qualify for membership.
 
2012-10-05 09:14:16 AM  

The Saturday Night Massacre: A Scout is:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent. 

"Straight" notably absent......


"On my honor I will do my best to do my duty, to God and my country. To obey the scout law, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight" - scout oath

Now, I am not of the opinion that "morally straight" excludes homosexuals, but the powers at be in scouting are.

I really hate this too, scouting helped me develop discipline, get over my borderline OCD, and foster my love of camping. The vast majority of scout troops don't give a shiat if you're gay or an atheist. We had at least one atheist in our troop and just told him to hush up about the religion requirements. If we had had an openly gay scout, I'm sure we would have welcomed him too. The real issue is that the upper leadership are too old and too...mormon. It's a fantastic organization, but there needs to be a serious change at the highest levels.
 
2012-10-05 09:15:35 AM  
Penn and Teller - Full Episode on The Boy Scouts, and how the Mormon Church has hijacked it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndoP1YW72Zk
Link
 
2012-10-05 09:15:58 AM  

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.


How is it possible you missed the comment 4 above yours that shows it is not in fact a completely "private" group, as it was originally chartered by Congress? Your troll is weak too, equating discrimination and intolerance of discrimination is full retard.
 
2012-10-05 09:16:19 AM  

Joe Blowme: Yes but they have to be deployed to combat zone to qualify for membership


Yes, and they have gay people who have done that.

deosn't have fark all to do with the BSA.


Joe Blowme: Im sure they too can apply for support, gov cant descriminate. So what is your deal again? Too lazy to do all the set up work yourself to create your own club


Govt can, and does.

I an not going to re-post the indivicdual links, btu the govt gives a lot of support to the BSA that wouldn't be there for a new group.


liam76: Are you unaware of their preferential treatment in many towns and cities? You were a boy scout right, never had a meeting in a school?

In cases where they don't get it over their stance they have been suing ?

You didn't know that the 2005 Jamboree, alone, cost the Us taxpayers about 8 million dollars?

How about the "Boy Scouts of America Centennial Commemorative Coin Act"?

In January 2006, Congress included the "Support Our Scouts Act of 2005" in its defense authorization bill. This law requires the Department of Defense to provide at least the same level of support for the BSA's national and world Jamborees as in past years. This law also requires any state or local government entity that receives Community Development Block Grant money from the Department of Housing and Urban Development to allow BSA to have meetings in their facilities or on their property. This requirement would override any of these entities' own anti-discrimination laws or regulations forbidding access to a discriminatory group such as the BSA. (linked above)

I got no problem with the BSA taking whatever stance they want on gays, or religion, but thwne they get that level of govt support it is farking BS

 
2012-10-05 09:16:21 AM  

Theaetetus: DrPainMD: No different from groups that are only open to gays.

Which of these cover up for their child rapist members?
Catholic Church
Boy Scouts of America
Log Cabin Republicans

/right... no difference...


You forgot to include the GLBTA. It isn't straight dudes who are raping those boys.
 
2012-10-05 09:27:34 AM  

Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.


I would too, if I ever had what it takes to make it to Eagle Scout. I'd gladly send them back my Tenderfoot badge, this kid busted his ass and this is how he's treated? It's shameful.
 
2012-10-05 09:32:23 AM  
Reminds me of how the GOP tried to oust Akin when he stated what their platform was out loud.
 
2012-10-05 09:33:45 AM  
Three weeks ago, my son came running to me after school and said he wanted to join the Boy Scouts because a man came into their classroom and said they get to shoot BB guns and bows and arrows if they come to a meeting that night at school. We went, signed up, and now I got to figure out another activity for him each week because I'm pulling him out of it today. I want to teach my son tolerance, not hate.

/screw the boy scouts
 
2012-10-05 09:38:34 AM  
Kingly Weevil:

Sherman Potter
:

BendreGiant:

scottydoesntknow:

pudding7:

sgnilward:


Ok, it might've already been mentioned, but Eagle Scouts all across the country are just as disgusted as you with the way BSA has been acting, so they're writing letters to BSA and mailing their badges back. BoingBoing has covered it repeatedly and there's a tumblr of a bunch of different letters and pictures of people mailing their stuff in - 179 letters as of 10/1/12, after starting the site in late July this year.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-05 09:39:46 AM  

PapaChester: I do not turn my card so that I can actively represent myself in my community as an Eagle Scout who thinks the Boy Scouts have become a private hate group instead of the upstanding organization it once was.


Except that by these rules, it's always been a private hate organization. It's like keeping a KKK membership card so you can show the community that the KKK used to be OK, and you're trying to change things "from the inside."

There is no changing things from the inside of the BSA at this point.

/former Eagle scout
//glad I only have daughters
 
2012-10-05 09:40:26 AM  
Hey, they are an organization who can deny membership to anyone..

Maybe he could join the Pikes when he goes to college.
 
2012-10-05 09:42:34 AM  

fluffytuff: /screw the boy scouts


That's why they don't want gheys in there.
 
2012-10-05 09:49:06 AM  
I really can't believe it's the year 2012 and people still use the old homosexual = pedophile canard. I used to ask people like that if they were sexually interested in young girls. I usually got insults back. Curiously, I never really got denials.

Fark the BSA. Happy that the Girl Scouts have gone in the opposite direction and are very inclusive. Will happily allow my daughter to become a girl scout when she's old enough.
 
2012-10-05 09:52:57 AM  

number8: homosexual = pedophile

 
2012-10-05 09:53:18 AM  
I do not have a problem with this. BSA is a private organization, and can do whatever the fark they want.

Denying membership does NOT equal hatred.

The practical fact of the matter is that parents of young boys simply do not want their boys going camping in the woods with gays anymore than parents want their daughters going camping in the woods with young straight boys. Simply too much potential for trouble.

And I've seen it and heard it, in scouting (co-ed Explorer Posts) and many years ago in Civil Air Patrol cadet units, until they clamped down and set up night watches. As scout leaders, we would say we would lead coed units as soon as BSA started issuing Chastity Belts.

Go ahead and laugh, but your attitude is way different when you're responsible for teh kiddies....
 
2012-10-05 09:53:22 AM  

liam76: Debeo Summa Credo: liam76: Weaver95: I don't know why you'd care in the first place. you don't have to like the BSA 'no gays' rule but it's their club house...they can make up whatever rules they want for their membership. SCOTUS even said so

I don't know if you can really say it is "their" clubhouse when the govt does give them support.

How much support is given to the boy scouts? In what form?

Are you unaware of their preferential treatment in many towns and cities? You were a boy scout right, never had a meeting in a school?

In cases where they don't get it over their stance they have been suing ?

You didn't know that the 2005 Jamboree, alone, cost the Us taxpayers about 8 million dollars?

How about the "Boy Scouts of America Centennial Commemorative Coin Act"?

In January 2006, Congress included the "Support Our Scouts Act of 2005" in its defense authorization bill. This law requires the Department of Defense to provide at least the same level of support for the BSA's national and world Jamborees as in past years. This law also requires any state or local government entity that receives Community Development Block Grant money from the Department of Housing and Urban Development to allow BSA to have meetings in their facilities or on their property. This requirement would override any of these entities' own anti-discrimination laws or regulations forbidding access to a discriminatory group such as the BSA. (linked above)

I got no problem with the BSA taking whatever stance they want on gays, or religion, but thwne they get that level of govt support it is farking BS.


Okay, so basically no significant support. I thought there were actual cash appropriations going to boy scouts. Our troop (den? Pack?) meets in a church basement, with no interaction with church officials at all. It's in the northeast so that whole "duty to god" thing is extremely muted.

I agree that we shouldn't be wasting tax dollars on BSA or any community organization, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about them using govt land or a school.
 
2012-10-05 09:58:52 AM  

mark12A: I do not have a problem with this. BSA is a private organization, and can do whatever the fark they want.

Denying membership does NOT equal hatred.

The practical fact of the matter is that parents of young boys simply do not want their boys going camping in the woods with gays anymore than parents want their daughters going camping in the woods with young straight boys. Simply too much potential for trouble.

And I've seen it and heard it, in scouting (co-ed Explorer Posts) and many years ago in Civil Air Patrol cadet units, until they clamped down and set up night watches. As scout leaders, we would say we would lead coed units as soon as BSA started issuing Chastity Belts.

Go ahead and laugh, but your attitude is way different when you're responsible for teh kiddies....


See the problem is the BSA is not a private group, they accept federal money, use public places with Sweetheart deals, like rent for a dollar, if not free.

Link Skip ahead to 18:30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndoP1YW72Zk
 
2012-10-05 10:01:50 AM  

phyrkrakr: Kingly Weevil:

Sherman Potter:

BendreGiant:

scottydoesntknow:

pudding7:

sgnilward:

Ok, it might've already been mentioned, but Eagle Scouts all across the country are just as disgusted as you with the way BSA has been acting, so they're writing letters to BSA and mailing their badges back. BoingBoing has covered it repeatedly and there's a tumblr of a bunch of different letters and pictures of people mailing their stuff in - 179 letters as of 10/1/12, after starting the site in late July this year.


I don't understand that. Werethe boy scouts more tolerant of gays in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, but just changed their minds recently?
 
2012-10-05 10:02:36 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Okay, so basically no significant support. I thought there were actual cash appropriations going to boy scouts. Our troop (den? Pack?) meets in a church basement, with no interaction with church officials at all. It's in the northeast so that whole "duty to god" thing is extremely muted.


Did you miss the 8 million dollars for the 2005 Jamboree alone?

Did you miss the legislation that says th US govt has to continue to give that level of supprot to future Jamobrees?

You are realy trying to pass that off as "no significant support"?

Debeo Summa Credo: I agree that we shouldn't be wasting tax dollars on BSA or any community organization, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about them using govt land (and resources) or a school


Would you get bent out of shape if the KKK, black panthers or some "gay only" group was allowed that sweetheart deal on govt land (and resources)? Because most people would and those that change their stance when it comes tot he BSA are hypocrites.
 
2012-10-05 10:12:16 AM  
can we boycott them?
 
2012-10-05 10:12:41 AM  

liam76: Debeo Summa Credo: Okay, so basically no significant support. I thought there were actual cash appropriations going to boy scouts. Our troop (den? Pack?) meets in a church basement, with no interaction with church officials at all. It's in the northeast so that whole "duty to god" thing is extremely muted.

Did you miss the 8 million dollars for the 2005 Jamboree alone?

Did you miss the legislation that says th US govt has to continue to give that level of supprot to future Jamobrees?

You are realy trying to pass that off as "no significant support"?

Debeo Summa Credo: I agree that we shouldn't be wasting tax dollars on BSA or any community organization, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about them using govt land (and resources) or a school

Would you get bent out of shape if the KKK, black panthers or some "gay only" group was allowed that sweetheart deal on govt land (and resources)? Because most people would and those that change their stance when it comes tot he BSA are hypocrites.


I honestly don't buy the $8m number that the anti-boy scout website threw out there. It says it's for "military personnel, land use, and other support". Not going to get bent out of shape about costs of military personnel attending jamborees or implied free rent on governmental land.

If the govt writes a check to BSA for $8m a year, you are right that I think it should stop.
 
2012-10-05 10:14:39 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: IAMTHEINTARWEBS: Babwa Wawa: A

[deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com image 506x760]


You're gonna have to explain that one to me
 
2012-10-05 10:29:37 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: I honestly don't buy the $8m number that the anti-boy scout website threw out there. It says it's for "military personnel, land use, and other support". Not going to get bent out of shape about costs of military personnel attending jamborees or implied free rent on governmental land.


They aren't attending, they are working them.

If you don't like those number go read up on the law that was passed after the 05 Jamboree.

And there is nothing "implied" about the rent. They get things free or a steep discount which translates for less money for the govt.

Debeo Summa Credo: If the govt writes a check to BSA for $8m a year, you are right that I think it should stop


There is no difference, you realize that, right?

It is liek the difference between the govt saying we will send a check for 1k to everyone making over 80k and saying those people will get a tax break of 1k.

At the end of the day the govt is out that money.

I am guessing, since you didn't answer the question, that you are fine because you like the BSA, not because you think it is no big deal. Or do you want to come out and say that you htink it would be no big dealif the US govt 8 mil in support for a big kkk (or black panther, or gay only club)'fest once a year?
 
2012-10-05 10:30:39 AM  

liam76: Joe Blowme: Yes but they have to be deployed to combat zone to qualify for membership

Yes, and they have gay people who have done that.

deosn't have fark all to do with the BSA.


Joe Blowme: Im sure they too can apply for support, gov cant descriminate. So what is your deal again? Too lazy to do all the set up work yourself to create your own club

Govt can, and does.

I an not going to re-post the indivicdual links, btu the govt gives a lot of support to the BSA that wouldn't be there for a new group.


liam76: Are you unaware of their preferential treatment in many towns and cities? You were a boy scout right, never had a meeting in a school?

In cases where they don't get it over their stance they have been suing ?

You didn't know that the 2005 Jamboree, alone, cost the Us taxpayers about 8 million dollars?

How about the "Boy Scouts of America Centennial Commemorative Coin Act"?

In January 2006, Congress included the "Support Our Scouts Act of 2005" in its defense authorization bill. This law requires the Department of Defense to provide at least the same level of support for the BSA's national and world Jamborees as in past years. This law also requires any state or local government entity that receives Community Development Block Grant money from the Department of Housing and Urban Development to allow BSA to have meetings in their facilities or on their property. This requirement would override any of these entities' own anti-discrimination laws or regulations forbidding access to a discriminatory group such as the BSA. (linked above)

I got no problem with the BSA taking whatever stance they want on gays, or religion, but thwne they get that level of govt support it is farking BS


I was talking about membership rules, you can not be a post member unless you meet certain criteria.
 
2012-10-05 10:33:45 AM  

liam76: Debeo Summa Credo: I honestly don't buy the $8m number that the anti-boy scout website threw out there. It says it's for "military personnel, land use, and other support". Not going to get bent out of shape about costs of military personnel attending jamborees or implied free rent on governmental land.

They aren't attending, they are working them.

If you don't like those number go read up on the law that was passed after the 05 Jamboree.

And there is nothing "implied" about the rent. They get things free or a steep discount which translates for less money for the govt.

Debeo Summa Credo: If the govt writes a check to BSA for $8m a year, you are right that I think it should stop

There is no difference, you realize that, right?

It is liek the difference between the govt saying we will send a check for 1k to everyone making over 80k and saying those people will get a tax break of 1k.

At the end of the day the govt is out that money.

I am guessing, since you didn't answer the question, that you are fine because you like the BSA, not because you think it is no big deal. Or do you want to come out and say that you htink it would be no big dealif the US govt 8 mil in support for a big kkk (or black panther, or gay only club)'fest once a year?


They have school sponsored clubs for gays and such. Even the NAACP and CBC is funded by gov and yet they are racists. Not sure why all the but hurt over boy scouts, unless youhave an axe to grind with them.
 
2012-10-05 10:35:38 AM  

Joe Blowme: I was talking about membership rules, you can not be a post member unless you meet certain criteria


Rules about accomplishing certain actions are completely different than rules about religion.

And when you receive govt support (as the BSA does) you aren't allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion or sexual preference.

If there were Mohommad scouts running around that said you had to be muslim and they were getting 8+mil a year fromt he govt in terms of support and free or reduced fees for govt property you would be flipping your lid.
 
2012-10-05 10:39:36 AM  

Joe Blowme: They have school sponsored clubs for gays and such. Even the NAACP and CBC is funded by gov and yet they are racists.


I don't think they have clubs "for gays" they have clubs that deal with gay issues that are open to everyone.

NAACP doesn't require you to be black (and I don't thinkthey get govt funds, but could be wrong).

Not sure how the canadian broadcast systemplays into this.


Not sure why all the but hurt over boy scouts, unless youhave an axe to grind with them

That is becasue you are dishonest, stupid, or ignorant. You can't name me another group that gets the level of support they do fromt he govt that places limits on the faith and sexual orientation of its members.
 
2012-10-05 10:42:44 AM  
As an Eagle Scout, I am disappointed by both parties. Obviously, the BSA has doubled down on it's short-sighted, bigoted policy. But also in this kid. He had completed the requirements and only had to keep quiet until he had it in his hands and it was "official". HE KNEW that coming out would make him ineligible. Yet he came out anyway. His Ticket...bought it.

Spending your entire young life involved in the BSA is something I can relate to. It sucks for all involved. I wish he had just kept quiet, gotten the award, and then he could have done anything he wanted. The BSA cannot remove an Eagle once awarded. If he wanted it so badly, could have shut up, got the award and gotten on with his life.
But now, he will get to his early 30's and resent himself for his decision. Every person I've ever known to have dropped out when they were close to Eagle or not gotten it for some other reason has regretted it. EVERY. ONE.

Terrible situation for all involved. Choices are a biatch. At least this kid made a bad one early on. Hopefully, he'll learn to think future decisions through a little more before pulling the trigger. But I wouldn't hold your breath on the BSA changing it's policy. Not gonna happen.
 
2012-10-05 10:44:02 AM  

timujin: I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..


+1
 
2012-10-05 10:45:19 AM  

mark12A: I do not have a problem with this. BSA is a private organization, and can do whatever the fark they want.

Denying membership does NOT equal hatred.

The practical fact of the matter is that parents of young boys simply do not want their boys going camping in the woods with gays anymore than parents want their daughters going camping in the woods with young straight boys. Simply too much potential for trouble.

And I've seen it and heard it, in scouting (co-ed Explorer Posts) and many years ago in Civil Air Patrol cadet units, until they clamped down and set up night watches. As scout leaders, we would say we would lead coed units as soon as BSA started issuing Chastity Belts.

Go ahead and laugh, but your attitude is way different when you're responsible for teh kiddies....


Pedophiles are not the same thing as homosexuals. Gay guys don't like little boys any more than straight guys like little girls.

Now if you're talking about two gay scouts knocking boots in the tent, well, I misunderstood your point. But considering the percentage of gay people in the country and the percentage of people in BSA, I find it unlikely that there would even be two gay scouts in the same troop and furthermore that they wouldn't be able to act with restraint. In other words, mountain out of molehills.
 
2012-10-05 10:45:54 AM  

coolschool_dropout: As an Eagle Scout, I am disappointed by both parties. Obviously, the BSA has doubled down on it's short-sighted, bigoted policy. But also in this kid. He had completed the requirements and only had to keep quiet until he had it in his hands and it was "official". HE KNEW that coming out would make him ineligible. Yet he came out anyway. His Ticket...bought it.


I actually respect him more for that.

You don't change it by lying abotu what you believe then turning around and saying I was faking all along.

He showed them, that evenw ithout religions, he was going to be honest.


coolschool_dropout: Terrible situation for all involved. Choices are a biatch. At least this kid made a bad one early on. Hopefully, he'll learn to think future decisions through a little more before pulling the trigger.


Eagle scouts aren't that rare. A guy who forgoes his eagle scout because hee was true to himself, not so much.


/project wass till weak sauce.
 
2012-10-05 10:51:56 AM  

phyrkrakr: Pedophiles are not the same thing as homosexuals. Gay guys don't like little boys any more than straight guys like little girls.


I agree they aren't the same but I would have some issues with a guy 19+ being in charge of girls that are 10-18.
 
2012-10-05 10:52:56 AM  

exvaxman: As someone who has three of his former cubs becoming Eagle scouts next year, I and most scouts I deal with do not give a fark. Wait for the next generation of leadership.


Ahh, the old "fark you, we're getting ours" canard. Awesome! I'm guessing you're a Republican.
 
2012-10-05 10:56:18 AM  

liam76: Joe Blowme: They have school sponsored clubs for gays and such. Even the NAACP and CBC is funded by gov and yet they are racists.

I don't think they have clubs "for gays" they have clubs that deal with gay issues that are open to everyone.

NAACP doesn't require you to be black (and I don't thinkthey get govt funds, but could be wrong).

Not sure how the canadian broadcast systemplays into this.


Not sure why all the but hurt over boy scouts, unless youhave an axe to grind with them

That is becasue you are dishonest, stupid, or ignorant. You can't name me another group that gets the level of support they do fromt he govt that places limits on the faith and sexual orientation of its members.


Wha.... oh... this is FARk. You know damn well NAACP and CBC both get federal funding and are exclusive... but im the ignorant one.
 
2012-10-05 10:58:24 AM  
Hearn further reported that although the bylaws of the caucus do not make race a prerequisite for membership, former and current members of the caucus agreed that the group should remain "exclusively black".

Yea, not racist org at all
 
2012-10-05 11:03:37 AM  

Joe Blowme: Wha.... oh... this is FARk. You know damn well NAACP and CBC both get federal funding and are exclusive... but im the ignorant one


NAACP has non black members.

What funding does the CBC mean (honestly drew a black before)?

Joe Blowme: Hearn further reported that although the bylaws of the caucus do not make race a prerequisite for membership, former and current members of the caucus agreed that the group should remain "exclusively black".


What funds do they get? I know the members bring their own food to the meetings.

How much funding do they need to get together and talk?
 
2012-10-05 11:07:18 AM  

liam76: Joe Blowme: Wha.... oh... this is FARk. You know damn well NAACP and CBC both get federal funding and are exclusive... but im the ignorant one

NAACP has non black members.

What funding does the CBC mean (honestly drew a black before)?

Joe Blowme: Hearn further reported that although the bylaws of the caucus do not make race a prerequisite for membership, former and current members of the caucus agreed that the group should remain "exclusively black".

What funds do they get? I know the members bring their own food to the meetings.

How much funding do they need to get together and talk?


CBC lost federal funding in 94, and is now funded by private donations.
 
2012-10-05 11:09:31 AM  

liam76: Eagle scouts aren't that rare.


You don't think the .006% of the population of the USA is rare? My math must be off
 
2012-10-05 11:11:13 AM  

coolschool_dropout: liam76: Eagle scouts aren't that rare.

You don't think the .006% of the population of the USA is rare? My math must be off


Scouts are huge in my family, so honestly, no I didn't think it was that rare.

That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.
 
2012-10-05 11:25:40 AM  

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.


I would agree if it were not for one thing and that is the BSA has in the past received government sponsorship and preferential access to government resources like land and facilities. Now this is changing as fast as the ACLU can bring lawsuits, because of their stance on homosexuality and atheism.

We as a people have supported this organization through our government, because it was viewed as beneficial. Now that our views of homosexuality and atheism have changed we expect those organizations that we have supported to change with it.
 
2012-10-05 11:29:48 AM  

liam76: Scouts are huge in my family, so honestly, no I didn't think it was that rare.

That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.


OK. I imagine your family is pretty large but, really? Six tenths of a percent isn't rare? Just because your family is into it and everybody is an Eagle, doesn't mean it's not rare. It just means that it's not rare in your family. Eagle is slightly easier now, but still less than 2% of all kids in Scouting attain Eagle.

My family was WAY involved also. Years and years of Scouting. Thousands of dollars and hours poured into the organization. We're all pretty much retired now.

liam76: That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.


True. But what seems too common, is to complain about something when you KNOW the outcome of decisions well before. If you want something, but are denied because you broke the rules, you can't complain when you don't get it. I feel for the kid, I really do. But that doesn't change the fact that he knew the rules and broke them at the eleventh hour. It's not right, but that's the fact.

I wish he could get it. Sounds like he deserves it. It's a shame and a stupid, short-sighted and bigoted policy.
 
2012-10-05 12:11:55 PM  

Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.


If you were ACTUALLY ashamed to be an eagle scout, you wouldn't have manufactured the opportunity to mention it to all of us just now.

That you did, shows you are nevertheless proud of it.
 
2012-10-05 12:15:27 PM  
Lousy situation. But if you get as far as Eagle Scout without knowing about the policy, well ... maybe your "paying attention" badge wasn't as well earned as you thought. Not to condone it, but it's not as if the BSA has made any secret of where it stands on such matters.

There *are* good alternatives to the Boy Scouts, folks. If enough people put their money where their mouth is and went with another organization, either BSA would cease to exist or change its policy.
 
2012-10-05 12:33:57 PM  

Kurmudgeon: Read this and compare how many of these are homosexual vs heterosexual occurrences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_sex_abuse_cases
I'm sorry, but older men on boys does bring bad attention down on homosexuality.
You can say it's not the same thing, but same gender on same gender fits the definition.
I don't mean to upset anyone, but I refuse to ignore reality just because it is hurtful or not how I wish.


The only one you're upsetting are people with very small brains like yourself.

Quick question, how many of those men were openly gay?
Zero. The number is zero. Why would a pedophile with intentions to molest little boys announce that he's gay? Most pedophiles are married to women and molest boys because they are the most easily available.
 
2012-10-05 12:35:43 PM  

Alonjar: For the record, I support peoples right to be gay.. if that does it for you, good for you.

HOWEVER... you cant deny the elephant in the room in regards to gay scout masters/elders. While it sucks to paint innocent gays with such a tainted brush, I can understand the concerns of parents with leaving their children under the supervision of gay adults who actively seek interaction with little boys. Its just... sketchy. The boy scouts of america have an image to keep up, and saying "leave your little boy with gay uncle jimmy!" just leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths.

I'm not homophobic.. but theres just certain things people wont be comfortable with, and this is one of them. The risk of damaging the reputation of the boy scouts in the same fashion as the Catholic church is too large for them to bear, and I understand.

I'm not saying its right... but I understand.


For the record, you are absolutely homophobic. And for the further record, none of the Scout masters who molested boys were openly gay, so how exactly would banning gay people help?
 
2012-10-05 12:52:09 PM  

coolschool_dropout: Every person I've ever known to have dropped out when they were close to Eagle or not gotten it for some other reason has regretted it. EVERY. ONE.


Eagle scout here. I know a lot of Life scouts who dropped out (our service project requirements were somewhat daunting). All those guys regretted it. however, I don't know any that would regret giving it up to make a moral statement, which is what appears to have happened here.
 
2012-10-05 01:42:16 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?


Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.
 
2012-10-05 01:43:26 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?


Also, no one outside of the Scouts thinks that being a scout is "cool." The words Nerd or Dork or Loser are much more appropriate.
 
2012-10-05 01:49:12 PM  

Babwa Wawa: coolschool_dropout: Every person I've ever known to have dropped out when they were close to Eagle or not gotten it for some other reason has regretted it. EVERY. ONE.

Eagle scout here. I know a lot of Life scouts who dropped out (our service project requirements were somewhat daunting). All those guys regretted it. however, I don't know any that would regret giving it up to make a moral statement, which is what appears to have happened here.


When I was a Scout I made it as far as 2nd Class. I was in a troop that was heavy into the camping and I was more about the camping than I was about merit badges, so I never seriously pursued moving up the ladder. Not buckling down and going for Eagle is definitely a big regret in my life. I then left the Scouts for a while and eventually rejoined after being asked to lifeguard a few events for a local troop. I was a Scoutmaster for about 5 years and spent three summers as the Range Director at three different Scout camps. When the BSA one their lawsuit to deny entry to homosexuals I almost immediately wrote a "letter of resignation" to the BSA and mailed it off the next day. While I miss working with the kids and sharing with them my knowledge of various topics, I have absolutely no regrets about quitting over this.
 
2012-10-05 02:02:19 PM  
I used to be a scout and received the Chief Scout of Canada's award (Eagle was too american of a name for us)...and I HATE what these shiatheads just did to this kid!
 
2012-10-05 02:15:03 PM  

timujin: I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..


No, not really. BSA has a lot of good stuff, just like GSA does--I was a Girl Scout, and I remember the very dramatic differences between various troops. The organizations as a whole are robust enough to be fixed, and have enough good traditions and history to be worth fixing.
 
2012-10-05 02:25:24 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.

All of this.

/Former Eagle Scout
//Completely disgusted with the way the organization is acting


^^^ ALL OF THIS ^^^ including the Eagle
 
2012-10-05 02:39:51 PM  
They did the kid a favor.... Better to be gay than a dork.
 
2012-10-05 03:07:49 PM  
Sorry, it is a PRIVATE organization with KNOWN rules. If he is a HOMOSEXUAL, he has
NO business being in scouting, other than causing a problem. You don't like it? QUIT.
Plain and simple. No one is forced to join the BSA. If you don't like how they run their
organization, then start one of your own.
 
2012-10-05 03:39:50 PM  

Babwa Wawa: A "tolerance wall" is some kind of f*&cking copout for an Eagle project. An eagle service project should involve at least 40 person-hours of work.

That said, screw the BSA and their intolerance.


My Eagle Scout project took 6 weekends of work w/ help of others.

And echoing their other point, screw the BSA.
 
2012-10-05 03:49:02 PM  

PsiChick: timujin: I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..

No, not really. BSA has a lot of good stuff, just like GSA does--I was a Girl Scout, and I remember the very dramatic differences between various troops. The organizations as a whole are robust enough to be fixed, and have enough good traditions and history to be worth fixing.


I was a Scout and I agree that there are a lot of good traditions and history there. But I also believe that working to receive the highest accolade of the BSA as it exists today while holding beliefs that are fundamentally against the tenets of the organization is idiotic.

It would be like someone working to become a Bishop in the Catholic Church while at the same time saying they don't believe in Jesus.

/actually, those organizations both have very similar viewpoints: Smite the homos, but protect the child molesters!
 
2012-10-05 03:54:11 PM  

Red_Fox: I used to be a scout and received the Chief Scout of Canada's award (Eagle was too american of a name for us)...and I HATE what these shiatheads just did to this kid!


The Canadian Scouts are bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to not discriminate...

From the Scout's Canada FAQ page:
"Do You Have to Believe in God to Join Scouts Canada? Is Scouting a Christian Organization?
No, but you must have a basic spiritual belief. Spirituality has been one of the three main principles of Scouting around the world since its inception more than 100 years ago. Scouts Canada is proud of its commitment to diversity and welcomes members of many different faiths and denominations.
You need not belong to an organized religion, but all members must take the Scout Promise in good faith and leaders may include some form of spirituality in their program for the youth. "God" represents spirituality and for some may represent an actual deity, but it may also mean an expression of your personal spirituality.
"Duty to God" as defined by the World Organization of the Scouting Movement, means "a person's relationship with the spiritual values of life, the fundamental belief in a force above mankind."

Are Homosexuals Allowed to Join Scouts Canada?
Scouts Canada does not discriminate for reasons of gender, culture, religious belief or sexual orientation."

The God thing is a bit of a slippery slope, but the actual wording insulates them from leaders that want to get a little more religious.
 
2012-10-05 04:26:59 PM  

Joe Blowme: Im sure they too can apply for support, gov cant descriminate. So what is your deal again? Too lazy to do all the set up work yourself to create your own club?


It was your idea, Joe. You want to form a Gay Scouts and be Gaymaster, you go do it.
 
2012-10-05 04:33:42 PM  

p51d007: Sorry, it is a PRIVATE organization with KNOWN rules.


Read the thread, then get back to us.
 
2012-10-05 05:32:49 PM  

BendreGiant: I am an eagle scout, and this shiat makes me sick to my stomach. If he earned the badges and did the project, give him the damned rank. I had to fake God for 3 years for mine, and it was BS then. Give the kid a break.


So...you're admitting that you lied to get your Eagle Badge.

And this makes you an authority to pass moral judgment on the BSA how?
 
2012-10-05 06:32:54 PM  

coolschool_dropout: liam76: Scouts are huge in my family, so honestly, no I didn't think it was that rare.

That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.

OK. I imagine your family is pretty large but, really? Six tenths of a percent isn't rare? Just because your family is into it and everybody is an Eagle, doesn't mean it's not rare. It just means that it's not rare in your family. Eagle is slightly easier now, but still less than 2% of all kids in Scouting attain Eagle.

My family was WAY involved also. Years and years of Scouting. Thousands of dollars and hours poured into the organization. We're all pretty much retired now.

liam76: That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.

True. But what seems too common, is to complain about something when you KNOW the outcome of decisions well before. If you want something, but are denied because you broke the rules, you can't complain when you don't get it. I feel for the kid, I really do. But that doesn't change the fact that he knew the rules and broke them at the eleventh hour. It's not right, but that's the fact.

I wish he could get it. Sounds like he deserves it. It's a shame and a stupid, short-sighted and bigoted policy.


I wasn't clear. There a lot of eagle scouts in my family, so o didn't think it was that rare. Never looked into the stats. It is much more rare than I thought.

He didn't 'break the rules' he was honest. I was a life scout and did a lot of leg work for my project but didn't go through with it because I was very athiest (bounced back and forth for a few years after that so it was teen athiest ). I respect him more than a Guy who gets it and says that bit was BS.
 
2012-10-05 09:50:28 PM  

Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.


Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy book and use it as a weapon and a reason to oppress, harass, and murder. Then you have the audacity to cry "OPPRESSION!!" when people stand up to your bullshiat. You don't follow anything about your precious god. You took his good and made it your evil. So take your holy horseshiat and shove it back up your festering asses.

Duke_leto_Atredes: Theaetetus: reaperducer: Don't believe in what the Scouts believe? Then don't join.

I thought the Scouts believed in covering up tens of thousands of instances of child rape. Simply "not joining" doesn't seem to be enough of a response.

That was gay people attempting to corrupt our kids, we need to protect our kids and ban gays from public life until we can find a cure for this sickness


"Herp de derp, it's the gay agenda spreading a physical illness like it's a bacteria, all dah gays are pedos too, doo dee doo I'mma da next Galistein, wheeee!" Your kind can eat a shotgun.
 
2012-10-05 09:55:16 PM  
Seems like every couple months there's someone else crying about the Boy Scouts being anti-gay. That's like complaining that the KKK is anti-black. It's a stupid argument. The boy scouts organization was founded specifically to keep kids busy so they wouldn't become "sexual deviants", which meant then what "gay" means now. If you don't like anti-gay groups, don't join one.

And don't eat corn flakes, they were invented to give kids boring, bland food so they wouldn't get all excited and turn gay.

/true story
//not anti-gay, 100% don't-care, just don't like people whining at something for being what it was designed to be
 
2012-10-05 10:16:45 PM  
Debeo Summa Credo: I honestly don't buy the $8m number that the anti-boy scout website threw out there.... Not going to get bent out of shape about costs of military personnel attending jamborees or implied free rent on governmental land. If the govt writes a check to BSA for $8m a year, you are right that I think it should stop.

Oh please. If we showed you a copy of the front and back of a cashed $8 million check from the U.S. government to the Boy Scouts with "Screw the Queers" written in the memo section, you'd be all "Not going to get bent out of shape about this until I see the original check and an itemized receipt for exactly what it paid for." And after we gave you that you'd quibble about individual line items.
 
2012-10-05 10:39:20 PM  

thoreau: Seems like every couple months there's someone else crying about the Boy Scouts being anti-gay. That's like complaining that the KKK is anti-black. It's a stupid argument. The boy scouts organization was founded specifically to keep kids busy so they wouldn't become "sexual deviants", which meant then what "gay" means now. If you don't like anti-gay groups, don't join one.

And don't eat corn flakes, they were invented to give kids boring, bland food so they wouldn't get all excited and turn gay.

/true story
//not anti-gay, 100% don't-care, just don't like people whining at something for being what it was designed to be


The corn flakes was to prevent masturbation, which was considered "Sexual deviancy" back then, along with women having sexual urges at all as well as simply having an erection at any time. Why aren't the BSA also against those?

/God says there are many things that are evil and worthy of being executed, why do Christians only focus on the most vague one of them?
 
2012-10-05 10:51:21 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: thoreau: Seems like every couple months there's someone else crying about the Boy Scouts being anti-gay. That's like complaining that the KKK is anti-black. It's a stupid argument. The boy scouts organization was founded specifically to keep kids busy so they wouldn't become "sexual deviants", which meant then what "gay" means now. If you don't like anti-gay groups, don't join one.

And don't eat corn flakes, they were invented to give kids boring, bland food so they wouldn't get all excited and turn gay.

/true story
//not anti-gay, 100% don't-care, just don't like people whining at something for being what it was designed to be

The corn flakes was to prevent masturbation, which was considered "Sexual deviancy" back then, along with women having sexual urges at all as well as simply having an erection at any time. Why aren't the BSA also against those?

/God says there are many things that are evil and worthy of being executed, why do Christians only focus on the most vague one of them?


Because the overwhelming majority of the population isn't gay, so it's very easy to say being gay is a "sin" without worrying about offending the people who fill your coffers. Churches can no longer take a hard line against things like divorce, masturbation, women having sexual autonomy, because that makes up most of their membership roles. Gay people, however, are still an acceptable target. Although, even that is fading, as more and more gay people come out and more and more straight people realize that at least one person they love is gay, and that person isn't the evil sexual deviant the church always said they were.
 
2012-10-05 11:15:34 PM  

timujin: I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..


So, it's a church?
 
2012-10-06 03:08:19 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Okay, so basically no significant support.


Wrong.

First of all, one cent is one cent too much.

But it's much more. The Department of Defense spends hundreds of thousands of tax dollars helping the Scouts run their Jamboree. A few years ago Congress ordered the minting of a coin marking the centennial of Scouting. Congress ordered that the coin be sold with a surcharge, and the surcharge be donated to the Scouts. The surcharge was $10 per coin and the Scouts made $3.5 million off the sale. Now, I realize that both of the cases I mention do not involve handing over a check to the Scouts, but Congress and the Department of Defense used their authority and Federal infrastructure to provide in kind and financial support - to the tune of $3.5 million - for the Scouts. And you dismiss that as "no significant support". I'd call $3.5 million significant. But I'm just a Godless homo.

And that's not even getting into the local schools, police and fire departments etc. that make their facilities available to Scouts free of charge.
 
2012-10-06 03:17:10 AM  

coolschool_dropout: He had completed the requirements and only had to keep quiet until he had it in his hands and it was "official".


I guess he decided having a badge that is supposed to represent (among other things) honesty was less important than actually living honestly.
 
2012-10-06 08:59:48 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy book and use it as a weapon and a reason to oppress, harass, and murder. Then you have the audacity to cry "OPPRESSION!!" when people stand up to your bullshiat. You don't follow anything about your precious god. You took his good and made it your evil. So take your holy horseshiat and shove it back up your festering asses.


They are free to go ahead and ban blacks, and brunettes, and non-midgets and anyone else they want to. Again, they are a private organization and are free to do so. The Supreme Court ruled that. Is it retarded? Of course it is. That is why so many members quit after that lawsuit (myself included). That is why so many civic organizations stopped supporting them.

As for claiming to follow a being of love and tolerance, I never made any such claim, either in this discussion or while a member of the BSA.

Also, which farking part of "I quit the Boy Scouts because of their discrimination policy" do you not understand? Let me try this again. I quit the Boy Scouts because of their discrimination policy. And while I support their right to teach the values they want to teach, I do not believe in that right. I is the same with the KKK or Neo Nazis or the Roman Catholic Church or any other similar group protected by the 1st Amendment. Just because I fully support their Constitutionally protected right to free speech does mean that I support or believe in the message they preach. So, yeah, I fully support the BSA on their right to throw this kid out, but only because of the 1st Amendment. I do not, however, support the rules that they used to determine he should be thrown out. Clear enough for you now?
 
2012-10-07 02:47:25 AM  

Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy book and use it as a weapon and a reason to oppress, harass, and murder. Then you have the audacity to cry "OPPRESSION!!" when people stand up to your bullshiat. You don't follow anything about your precious god. You took his good and made it your evil. So take your holy horseshiat and shove it back up your festering asses.


They are free to go ahead and ban blacks, and brunettes, and non-midgets and anyone else they want to. Again, they are a private organization and are free to do so. The Supreme Court ruled that. Is it retarded? Of course it is. That is why so many members quit after that lawsuit (myself included). That is why so many civic organizations stopped supporting them.

As for claiming to follow a being of love and tolerance, I never made any such claim, either in this discussion or while a member of the BSA.

Also, which farking part of "I quit the Boy Scouts because of their discrimination policy" do you not understand? Let me try this again. I quit the Boy Scouts because of their discrimination policy. And while I support their right to teach the values they want to teach, I do not support their belief that homosexuality is a sin. I is the same with the KKK or Neo Nazis or the Roman Catholic Church or any other similar group protected by the 1st Amendment. Just because I fully support their Constitutionally protected right to free speech does mean that I support or believe in the message they preach. So, yeah, I fully support the BSA on their right to throw this kid out, but only because of the 1st Amendment. I do not, however, support the rules that they used to determine he should be thrown out. Clear enough for you now?

Fixed That For Myself.
 
2012-10-07 04:27:30 PM  

Mock26: They are free to go ahead and ban blacks, and brunettes, and non-midgets and anyone else they want to. Again, they are a private organization and are free to do so. The Supreme Court ruled that. Is it retarded? Of course it is. That is why so many members quit after that lawsuit (myself included). That is why so many civic organizations stopped supporting them.


Actually, the civil rights act of '64 said they cannot ban blacks or brunettes. Not sure about the non-midget part though.
 
2012-10-07 06:20:59 PM  

PallMall: Mock26: They are free to go ahead and ban blacks, and brunettes, and non-midgets and anyone else they want to. Again, they are a private organization and are free to do so. The Supreme Court ruled that. Is it retarded? Of course it is. That is why so many members quit after that lawsuit (myself included). That is why so many civic organizations stopped supporting them.

Actually, the civil rights act of '64 said they cannot ban blacks or brunettes. Not sure about the non-midget part though.


Actually, according to Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, private clubs are exempt.
 
2012-10-07 06:40:48 PM  

Mock26: Actually, according to Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, private clubs are exempt.


Tell the ACLU that.

If all businesses re-opened as private clubs, the "Private Club" exemption would get tossed in short order.
 
2012-10-07 08:34:26 PM  

Mock26: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy book and use it as a ...


Yet you still say that they're perfectly within their rights for discriminating because of biological reasons they dislike. A decent, intelligent, and compassionate person would put his or her foot down and say "No, we are not going to stand for this".
 
2012-10-07 09:05:49 PM  

PallMall: Mock26: Actually, according to Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, private clubs are exempt.

Tell the ACLU that.

If all businesses re-opened as private clubs, the "Private Club" exemption would get tossed in short order.


The Supreme Court ruled that the BSA was a private organization.
 
2012-10-07 09:07:51 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy book and use it as a ...

Yet you still say that they're perfectly within their rights for discriminating because of biological reasons they dislike. A decent, intelligent, and compassionate person would put his or her foot down and say "No, we are not going to stand for this".


No, a decent, intelligent and compassionate person would not presume to tell others what to think and believe.
 
2012-10-07 09:53:31 PM  

Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy bo ...


Hey, you wanna defend evil, knock yourself out. I won't. I'll tell them what I think of them and to get a clue and with the 21st century, along with anyone who thinks they're in the right.
 
2012-10-07 10:15:03 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy book and use it as a ...

Yet you still say that they're perfectly within their rights for discriminating because of biological reasons they dislike. A decent, intelligent, and compassionate person would put his or her foot down and say "No, we are not going to stand for this".

No, a decent, intelligent and compassionate person would not presume to tell others what to think and believe.

Hey, you wanna defend evil, knock yourself out. I won't. I'll tell them what I think of them and to get a clue and with the 21st century, along with anyone who thinks they're in the right.


Hey, you wanna cloak yourself in self-righteousness and try to tell people what to believe and force your moral beliefs upon everyone around you, then you really are no better than those same narrow minded bigots within the Boy Scouts who have banned homosexuals from the organization. It is funny how you presume in your arrogance that because you are morally right and just that everyone has to think like you do. Well, funny in a sad and pathetic sort of a way. To paraphrase Jackson or Voltaire, I may not agree with what someone says, but I will defend with my life their right to say it. You, however, would presume to suppress anything and everything that you disagree with.
 
2012-10-07 11:28:41 PM  

Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what yo ...


Blah blah blah stop being intolerant of my intolerance, evil must exist for there to be good, if you kill him you will be just like him.

Like I said, you can defend evil, hatred, and bigotry all you want. I won't. Some things just don't work in the "we must allow everything in order to be fair" mindset. I suppose you'd be fine with people who practiced hatred and bigotry towards redheads, dwarfism, hairy-armed men, or people over six feet tall, too?
 
2012-10-08 06:06:33 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.


You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what yo ...

Blah blah blah stop being intolerant of my intolerance, evil must exist for there to be good, if you kill him you will be just like him.

Like I said, you can defend evil, hatred, and bigotry all you want. I won't. Some things just don't work in the "we must allow everything in order to be fair" mindset. I suppose you'd be fine with people who practiced hatred and bigotry towards redheads, dwarfism, hairy-armed men, or people over six feet tall, too?


As part of a private organization, yeah, I would be fine with their Constitutionally protected rights of free speech and free association. For some reason, though, you seem to think that because I support their rights of free speech and free association that I agree with what they preach. Oh well, I have repeatedly said that I do not support or condone their message, only that in this county they are not only free to preach intolerance and hatred but that it is a Constitutionally protected right. If you cannot see the difference then that is your problem, not mine. But, continue to shiat all over the rights of others if you want to. It is no skin off my back.
 
2012-10-08 06:19:20 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what yo ...

Blah blah blah stop being intolerant of my intolerance, evil must exist for there to be good, if you kill him you will be just like him.

Like I said, you can defend evil, hatred, and bigotry all you want. I won't. Some things just don't work in the "we must allow everything in order to be fair" mindset. I suppose you'd be fine with people who practiced hatred and bigotry towards redheads, dwarfism, hairy-armed men, or people over six feet tall, too?.


One more thing, just to be perfectly clear. I am not defending evil, hatred and bigotry. I am defending the Constitution of the United States of America. There is a huge difference there. You, though, would only see the rights guaranteed by the Constitution apply to people who receive your self-righteous, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou stamp of bigoted approval. Sorry, but the Constitution applies to everyone in this country. As someone once said, the most vile speech is that which most needs to be protected. It really is sad that you cannot see the importance of protecting the rights of those whom you disagree with or may even hate, loathe and despise. But, as I said, it is no skin off my back if you want to be a bigot.
 
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