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(NBC News)   Boy denied Eagle Scout status and has his Boy Scout membership revoked because he's gay. Boy Scouts of America -- Be Prepared (for teh ghays)   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 360
    More: Asinine, Eagle Scout, Boy Scouts of America, number of troops, stay-at-home mother, property management, mother said, NBC News, master status  
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7601 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Oct 2012 at 11:41 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-05 10:29:37 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: I honestly don't buy the $8m number that the anti-boy scout website threw out there. It says it's for "military personnel, land use, and other support". Not going to get bent out of shape about costs of military personnel attending jamborees or implied free rent on governmental land.


They aren't attending, they are working them.

If you don't like those number go read up on the law that was passed after the 05 Jamboree.

And there is nothing "implied" about the rent. They get things free or a steep discount which translates for less money for the govt.

Debeo Summa Credo: If the govt writes a check to BSA for $8m a year, you are right that I think it should stop


There is no difference, you realize that, right?

It is liek the difference between the govt saying we will send a check for 1k to everyone making over 80k and saying those people will get a tax break of 1k.

At the end of the day the govt is out that money.

I am guessing, since you didn't answer the question, that you are fine because you like the BSA, not because you think it is no big deal. Or do you want to come out and say that you htink it would be no big dealif the US govt 8 mil in support for a big kkk (or black panther, or gay only club)'fest once a year?
 
2012-10-05 10:30:39 AM  

liam76: Joe Blowme: Yes but they have to be deployed to combat zone to qualify for membership

Yes, and they have gay people who have done that.

deosn't have fark all to do with the BSA.


Joe Blowme: Im sure they too can apply for support, gov cant descriminate. So what is your deal again? Too lazy to do all the set up work yourself to create your own club

Govt can, and does.

I an not going to re-post the indivicdual links, btu the govt gives a lot of support to the BSA that wouldn't be there for a new group.


liam76: Are you unaware of their preferential treatment in many towns and cities? You were a boy scout right, never had a meeting in a school?

In cases where they don't get it over their stance they have been suing ?

You didn't know that the 2005 Jamboree, alone, cost the Us taxpayers about 8 million dollars?

How about the "Boy Scouts of America Centennial Commemorative Coin Act"?

In January 2006, Congress included the "Support Our Scouts Act of 2005" in its defense authorization bill. This law requires the Department of Defense to provide at least the same level of support for the BSA's national and world Jamborees as in past years. This law also requires any state or local government entity that receives Community Development Block Grant money from the Department of Housing and Urban Development to allow BSA to have meetings in their facilities or on their property. This requirement would override any of these entities' own anti-discrimination laws or regulations forbidding access to a discriminatory group such as the BSA. (linked above)

I got no problem with the BSA taking whatever stance they want on gays, or religion, but thwne they get that level of govt support it is farking BS


I was talking about membership rules, you can not be a post member unless you meet certain criteria.
 
2012-10-05 10:33:45 AM  

liam76: Debeo Summa Credo: I honestly don't buy the $8m number that the anti-boy scout website threw out there. It says it's for "military personnel, land use, and other support". Not going to get bent out of shape about costs of military personnel attending jamborees or implied free rent on governmental land.

They aren't attending, they are working them.

If you don't like those number go read up on the law that was passed after the 05 Jamboree.

And there is nothing "implied" about the rent. They get things free or a steep discount which translates for less money for the govt.

Debeo Summa Credo: If the govt writes a check to BSA for $8m a year, you are right that I think it should stop

There is no difference, you realize that, right?

It is liek the difference between the govt saying we will send a check for 1k to everyone making over 80k and saying those people will get a tax break of 1k.

At the end of the day the govt is out that money.

I am guessing, since you didn't answer the question, that you are fine because you like the BSA, not because you think it is no big deal. Or do you want to come out and say that you htink it would be no big dealif the US govt 8 mil in support for a big kkk (or black panther, or gay only club)'fest once a year?


They have school sponsored clubs for gays and such. Even the NAACP and CBC is funded by gov and yet they are racists. Not sure why all the but hurt over boy scouts, unless youhave an axe to grind with them.
 
2012-10-05 10:35:38 AM  

Joe Blowme: I was talking about membership rules, you can not be a post member unless you meet certain criteria


Rules about accomplishing certain actions are completely different than rules about religion.

And when you receive govt support (as the BSA does) you aren't allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion or sexual preference.

If there were Mohommad scouts running around that said you had to be muslim and they were getting 8+mil a year fromt he govt in terms of support and free or reduced fees for govt property you would be flipping your lid.
 
2012-10-05 10:39:36 AM  

Joe Blowme: They have school sponsored clubs for gays and such. Even the NAACP and CBC is funded by gov and yet they are racists.


I don't think they have clubs "for gays" they have clubs that deal with gay issues that are open to everyone.

NAACP doesn't require you to be black (and I don't thinkthey get govt funds, but could be wrong).

Not sure how the canadian broadcast systemplays into this.


Not sure why all the but hurt over boy scouts, unless youhave an axe to grind with them

That is becasue you are dishonest, stupid, or ignorant. You can't name me another group that gets the level of support they do fromt he govt that places limits on the faith and sexual orientation of its members.
 
2012-10-05 10:42:44 AM  
As an Eagle Scout, I am disappointed by both parties. Obviously, the BSA has doubled down on it's short-sighted, bigoted policy. But also in this kid. He had completed the requirements and only had to keep quiet until he had it in his hands and it was "official". HE KNEW that coming out would make him ineligible. Yet he came out anyway. His Ticket...bought it.

Spending your entire young life involved in the BSA is something I can relate to. It sucks for all involved. I wish he had just kept quiet, gotten the award, and then he could have done anything he wanted. The BSA cannot remove an Eagle once awarded. If he wanted it so badly, could have shut up, got the award and gotten on with his life.
But now, he will get to his early 30's and resent himself for his decision. Every person I've ever known to have dropped out when they were close to Eagle or not gotten it for some other reason has regretted it. EVERY. ONE.

Terrible situation for all involved. Choices are a biatch. At least this kid made a bad one early on. Hopefully, he'll learn to think future decisions through a little more before pulling the trigger. But I wouldn't hold your breath on the BSA changing it's policy. Not gonna happen.
 
2012-10-05 10:44:02 AM  

timujin: I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..


+1
 
2012-10-05 10:45:19 AM  

mark12A: I do not have a problem with this. BSA is a private organization, and can do whatever the fark they want.

Denying membership does NOT equal hatred.

The practical fact of the matter is that parents of young boys simply do not want their boys going camping in the woods with gays anymore than parents want their daughters going camping in the woods with young straight boys. Simply too much potential for trouble.

And I've seen it and heard it, in scouting (co-ed Explorer Posts) and many years ago in Civil Air Patrol cadet units, until they clamped down and set up night watches. As scout leaders, we would say we would lead coed units as soon as BSA started issuing Chastity Belts.

Go ahead and laugh, but your attitude is way different when you're responsible for teh kiddies....


Pedophiles are not the same thing as homosexuals. Gay guys don't like little boys any more than straight guys like little girls.

Now if you're talking about two gay scouts knocking boots in the tent, well, I misunderstood your point. But considering the percentage of gay people in the country and the percentage of people in BSA, I find it unlikely that there would even be two gay scouts in the same troop and furthermore that they wouldn't be able to act with restraint. In other words, mountain out of molehills.
 
2012-10-05 10:45:54 AM  

coolschool_dropout: As an Eagle Scout, I am disappointed by both parties. Obviously, the BSA has doubled down on it's short-sighted, bigoted policy. But also in this kid. He had completed the requirements and only had to keep quiet until he had it in his hands and it was "official". HE KNEW that coming out would make him ineligible. Yet he came out anyway. His Ticket...bought it.


I actually respect him more for that.

You don't change it by lying abotu what you believe then turning around and saying I was faking all along.

He showed them, that evenw ithout religions, he was going to be honest.


coolschool_dropout: Terrible situation for all involved. Choices are a biatch. At least this kid made a bad one early on. Hopefully, he'll learn to think future decisions through a little more before pulling the trigger.


Eagle scouts aren't that rare. A guy who forgoes his eagle scout because hee was true to himself, not so much.


/project wass till weak sauce.
 
2012-10-05 10:51:56 AM  

phyrkrakr: Pedophiles are not the same thing as homosexuals. Gay guys don't like little boys any more than straight guys like little girls.


I agree they aren't the same but I would have some issues with a guy 19+ being in charge of girls that are 10-18.
 
2012-10-05 10:52:56 AM  

exvaxman: As someone who has three of his former cubs becoming Eagle scouts next year, I and most scouts I deal with do not give a fark. Wait for the next generation of leadership.


Ahh, the old "fark you, we're getting ours" canard. Awesome! I'm guessing you're a Republican.
 
2012-10-05 10:56:18 AM  

liam76: Joe Blowme: They have school sponsored clubs for gays and such. Even the NAACP and CBC is funded by gov and yet they are racists.

I don't think they have clubs "for gays" they have clubs that deal with gay issues that are open to everyone.

NAACP doesn't require you to be black (and I don't thinkthey get govt funds, but could be wrong).

Not sure how the canadian broadcast systemplays into this.


Not sure why all the but hurt over boy scouts, unless youhave an axe to grind with them

That is becasue you are dishonest, stupid, or ignorant. You can't name me another group that gets the level of support they do fromt he govt that places limits on the faith and sexual orientation of its members.


Wha.... oh... this is FARk. You know damn well NAACP and CBC both get federal funding and are exclusive... but im the ignorant one.
 
2012-10-05 10:58:24 AM  
Hearn further reported that although the bylaws of the caucus do not make race a prerequisite for membership, former and current members of the caucus agreed that the group should remain "exclusively black".

Yea, not racist org at all
 
2012-10-05 11:03:37 AM  

Joe Blowme: Wha.... oh... this is FARk. You know damn well NAACP and CBC both get federal funding and are exclusive... but im the ignorant one


NAACP has non black members.

What funding does the CBC mean (honestly drew a black before)?

Joe Blowme: Hearn further reported that although the bylaws of the caucus do not make race a prerequisite for membership, former and current members of the caucus agreed that the group should remain "exclusively black".


What funds do they get? I know the members bring their own food to the meetings.

How much funding do they need to get together and talk?
 
2012-10-05 11:07:18 AM  

liam76: Joe Blowme: Wha.... oh... this is FARk. You know damn well NAACP and CBC both get federal funding and are exclusive... but im the ignorant one

NAACP has non black members.

What funding does the CBC mean (honestly drew a black before)?

Joe Blowme: Hearn further reported that although the bylaws of the caucus do not make race a prerequisite for membership, former and current members of the caucus agreed that the group should remain "exclusively black".

What funds do they get? I know the members bring their own food to the meetings.

How much funding do they need to get together and talk?


CBC lost federal funding in 94, and is now funded by private donations.
 
2012-10-05 11:09:31 AM  

liam76: Eagle scouts aren't that rare.


You don't think the .006% of the population of the USA is rare? My math must be off
 
2012-10-05 11:11:13 AM  

coolschool_dropout: liam76: Eagle scouts aren't that rare.

You don't think the .006% of the population of the USA is rare? My math must be off


Scouts are huge in my family, so honestly, no I didn't think it was that rare.

That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.
 
2012-10-05 11:25:40 AM  

DrPainMD: Yeah, yeah... we get it. Boy Scouts isn't open to gays. Big deal. Since it's a private organization, it's none of your business. No different from groups that are only open to gays. I have a great idea: join organizations that you want to join, and don't join those that you don't want to join. Unless you're against people living their lives the way they want, doing what they want to do and associating with who they want. In which case, you're just as bigoted and intolerant as they are.


I would agree if it were not for one thing and that is the BSA has in the past received government sponsorship and preferential access to government resources like land and facilities. Now this is changing as fast as the ACLU can bring lawsuits, because of their stance on homosexuality and atheism.

We as a people have supported this organization through our government, because it was viewed as beneficial. Now that our views of homosexuality and atheism have changed we expect those organizations that we have supported to change with it.
 
2012-10-05 11:29:48 AM  

liam76: Scouts are huge in my family, so honestly, no I didn't think it was that rare.

That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.


OK. I imagine your family is pretty large but, really? Six tenths of a percent isn't rare? Just because your family is into it and everybody is an Eagle, doesn't mean it's not rare. It just means that it's not rare in your family. Eagle is slightly easier now, but still less than 2% of all kids in Scouting attain Eagle.

My family was WAY involved also. Years and years of Scouting. Thousands of dollars and hours poured into the organization. We're all pretty much retired now.

liam76: That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.


True. But what seems too common, is to complain about something when you KNOW the outcome of decisions well before. If you want something, but are denied because you broke the rules, you can't complain when you don't get it. I feel for the kid, I really do. But that doesn't change the fact that he knew the rules and broke them at the eleventh hour. It's not right, but that's the fact.

I wish he could get it. Sounds like he deserves it. It's a shame and a stupid, short-sighted and bigoted policy.
 
2012-10-05 12:11:55 PM  

Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.


If you were ACTUALLY ashamed to be an eagle scout, you wouldn't have manufactured the opportunity to mention it to all of us just now.

That you did, shows you are nevertheless proud of it.
 
2012-10-05 12:15:27 PM  
Lousy situation. But if you get as far as Eagle Scout without knowing about the policy, well ... maybe your "paying attention" badge wasn't as well earned as you thought. Not to condone it, but it's not as if the BSA has made any secret of where it stands on such matters.

There *are* good alternatives to the Boy Scouts, folks. If enough people put their money where their mouth is and went with another organization, either BSA would cease to exist or change its policy.
 
2012-10-05 12:33:57 PM  

Kurmudgeon: Read this and compare how many of these are homosexual vs heterosexual occurrences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_sex_abuse_cases
I'm sorry, but older men on boys does bring bad attention down on homosexuality.
You can say it's not the same thing, but same gender on same gender fits the definition.
I don't mean to upset anyone, but I refuse to ignore reality just because it is hurtful or not how I wish.


The only one you're upsetting are people with very small brains like yourself.

Quick question, how many of those men were openly gay?
Zero. The number is zero. Why would a pedophile with intentions to molest little boys announce that he's gay? Most pedophiles are married to women and molest boys because they are the most easily available.
 
2012-10-05 12:35:43 PM  

Alonjar: For the record, I support peoples right to be gay.. if that does it for you, good for you.

HOWEVER... you cant deny the elephant in the room in regards to gay scout masters/elders. While it sucks to paint innocent gays with such a tainted brush, I can understand the concerns of parents with leaving their children under the supervision of gay adults who actively seek interaction with little boys. Its just... sketchy. The boy scouts of america have an image to keep up, and saying "leave your little boy with gay uncle jimmy!" just leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths.

I'm not homophobic.. but theres just certain things people wont be comfortable with, and this is one of them. The risk of damaging the reputation of the boy scouts in the same fashion as the Catholic church is too large for them to bear, and I understand.

I'm not saying its right... but I understand.


For the record, you are absolutely homophobic. And for the further record, none of the Scout masters who molested boys were openly gay, so how exactly would banning gay people help?
 
2012-10-05 12:52:09 PM  

coolschool_dropout: Every person I've ever known to have dropped out when they were close to Eagle or not gotten it for some other reason has regretted it. EVERY. ONE.


Eagle scout here. I know a lot of Life scouts who dropped out (our service project requirements were somewhat daunting). All those guys regretted it. however, I don't know any that would regret giving it up to make a moral statement, which is what appears to have happened here.
 
2012-10-05 01:42:16 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?


Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.
 
2012-10-05 01:43:26 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?


Also, no one outside of the Scouts thinks that being a scout is "cool." The words Nerd or Dork or Loser are much more appropriate.
 
2012-10-05 01:49:12 PM  

Babwa Wawa: coolschool_dropout: Every person I've ever known to have dropped out when they were close to Eagle or not gotten it for some other reason has regretted it. EVERY. ONE.

Eagle scout here. I know a lot of Life scouts who dropped out (our service project requirements were somewhat daunting). All those guys regretted it. however, I don't know any that would regret giving it up to make a moral statement, which is what appears to have happened here.


When I was a Scout I made it as far as 2nd Class. I was in a troop that was heavy into the camping and I was more about the camping than I was about merit badges, so I never seriously pursued moving up the ladder. Not buckling down and going for Eagle is definitely a big regret in my life. I then left the Scouts for a while and eventually rejoined after being asked to lifeguard a few events for a local troop. I was a Scoutmaster for about 5 years and spent three summers as the Range Director at three different Scout camps. When the BSA one their lawsuit to deny entry to homosexuals I almost immediately wrote a "letter of resignation" to the BSA and mailed it off the next day. While I miss working with the kids and sharing with them my knowledge of various topics, I have absolutely no regrets about quitting over this.
 
2012-10-05 02:02:19 PM  
I used to be a scout and received the Chief Scout of Canada's award (Eagle was too american of a name for us)...and I HATE what these shiatheads just did to this kid!
 
2012-10-05 02:15:03 PM  

timujin: I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..


No, not really. BSA has a lot of good stuff, just like GSA does--I was a Girl Scout, and I remember the very dramatic differences between various troops. The organizations as a whole are robust enough to be fixed, and have enough good traditions and history to be worth fixing.
 
2012-10-05 02:25:24 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Kingly Weevil: This makes me so sad because scouting was a program I enjoyed very much when I was a kid. At the time I of course didn't understand bigotry at the time, and never saw any examples of it myself while participating.

I just wish everyone could have the same great experiences that I had in it, and that the program would quit publicly shaming itself. This seriously makes me a little ashamed to be an Eagle Scout. I want to mail them my patch and tell them that I don't want it if he can't have his.

All of this.

/Former Eagle Scout
//Completely disgusted with the way the organization is acting


^^^ ALL OF THIS ^^^ including the Eagle
 
2012-10-05 02:39:51 PM  
They did the kid a favor.... Better to be gay than a dork.
 
2012-10-05 03:07:49 PM  
Sorry, it is a PRIVATE organization with KNOWN rules. If he is a HOMOSEXUAL, he has
NO business being in scouting, other than causing a problem. You don't like it? QUIT.
Plain and simple. No one is forced to join the BSA. If you don't like how they run their
organization, then start one of your own.
 
2012-10-05 03:39:50 PM  

Babwa Wawa: A "tolerance wall" is some kind of f*&cking copout for an Eagle project. An eagle service project should involve at least 40 person-hours of work.

That said, screw the BSA and their intolerance.


My Eagle Scout project took 6 weekends of work w/ help of others.

And echoing their other point, screw the BSA.
 
2012-10-05 03:49:02 PM  

PsiChick: timujin: I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..

No, not really. BSA has a lot of good stuff, just like GSA does--I was a Girl Scout, and I remember the very dramatic differences between various troops. The organizations as a whole are robust enough to be fixed, and have enough good traditions and history to be worth fixing.


I was a Scout and I agree that there are a lot of good traditions and history there. But I also believe that working to receive the highest accolade of the BSA as it exists today while holding beliefs that are fundamentally against the tenets of the organization is idiotic.

It would be like someone working to become a Bishop in the Catholic Church while at the same time saying they don't believe in Jesus.

/actually, those organizations both have very similar viewpoints: Smite the homos, but protect the child molesters!
 
2012-10-05 03:54:11 PM  

Red_Fox: I used to be a scout and received the Chief Scout of Canada's award (Eagle was too american of a name for us)...and I HATE what these shiatheads just did to this kid!


The Canadian Scouts are bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to not discriminate...

From the Scout's Canada FAQ page:
"Do You Have to Believe in God to Join Scouts Canada? Is Scouting a Christian Organization?
No, but you must have a basic spiritual belief. Spirituality has been one of the three main principles of Scouting around the world since its inception more than 100 years ago. Scouts Canada is proud of its commitment to diversity and welcomes members of many different faiths and denominations.
You need not belong to an organized religion, but all members must take the Scout Promise in good faith and leaders may include some form of spirituality in their program for the youth. "God" represents spirituality and for some may represent an actual deity, but it may also mean an expression of your personal spirituality.
"Duty to God" as defined by the World Organization of the Scouting Movement, means "a person's relationship with the spiritual values of life, the fundamental belief in a force above mankind."

Are Homosexuals Allowed to Join Scouts Canada?
Scouts Canada does not discriminate for reasons of gender, culture, religious belief or sexual orientation."

The God thing is a bit of a slippery slope, but the actual wording insulates them from leaders that want to get a little more religious.
 
2012-10-05 04:26:59 PM  

Joe Blowme: Im sure they too can apply for support, gov cant descriminate. So what is your deal again? Too lazy to do all the set up work yourself to create your own club?


It was your idea, Joe. You want to form a Gay Scouts and be Gaymaster, you go do it.
 
2012-10-05 04:33:42 PM  

p51d007: Sorry, it is a PRIVATE organization with KNOWN rules.


Read the thread, then get back to us.
 
2012-10-05 05:32:49 PM  

BendreGiant: I am an eagle scout, and this shiat makes me sick to my stomach. If he earned the badges and did the project, give him the damned rank. I had to fake God for 3 years for mine, and it was BS then. Give the kid a break.


So...you're admitting that you lied to get your Eagle Badge.

And this makes you an authority to pass moral judgment on the BSA how?
 
2012-10-05 06:32:54 PM  

coolschool_dropout: liam76: Scouts are huge in my family, so honestly, no I didn't think it was that rare.

That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.

OK. I imagine your family is pretty large but, really? Six tenths of a percent isn't rare? Just because your family is into it and everybody is an Eagle, doesn't mean it's not rare. It just means that it's not rare in your family. Eagle is slightly easier now, but still less than 2% of all kids in Scouting attain Eagle.

My family was WAY involved also. Years and years of Scouting. Thousands of dollars and hours poured into the organization. We're all pretty much retired now.

liam76: That being said I still think a guy who has worked to get it, but won't hide what he truly believes to check a box is a lot more rare.

True. But what seems too common, is to complain about something when you KNOW the outcome of decisions well before. If you want something, but are denied because you broke the rules, you can't complain when you don't get it. I feel for the kid, I really do. But that doesn't change the fact that he knew the rules and broke them at the eleventh hour. It's not right, but that's the fact.

I wish he could get it. Sounds like he deserves it. It's a shame and a stupid, short-sighted and bigoted policy.


I wasn't clear. There a lot of eagle scouts in my family, so o didn't think it was that rare. Never looked into the stats. It is much more rare than I thought.

He didn't 'break the rules' he was honest. I was a life scout and did a lot of leg work for my project but didn't go through with it because I was very athiest (bounced back and forth for a few years after that so it was teen athiest ). I respect him more than a Guy who gets it and says that bit was BS.
 
2012-10-05 09:50:28 PM  

Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.


Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy book and use it as a weapon and a reason to oppress, harass, and murder. Then you have the audacity to cry "OPPRESSION!!" when people stand up to your bullshiat. You don't follow anything about your precious god. You took his good and made it your evil. So take your holy horseshiat and shove it back up your festering asses.

Duke_leto_Atredes: Theaetetus: reaperducer: Don't believe in what the Scouts believe? Then don't join.

I thought the Scouts believed in covering up tens of thousands of instances of child rape. Simply "not joining" doesn't seem to be enough of a response.

That was gay people attempting to corrupt our kids, we need to protect our kids and ban gays from public life until we can find a cure for this sickness


"Herp de derp, it's the gay agenda spreading a physical illness like it's a bacteria, all dah gays are pedos too, doo dee doo I'mma da next Galistein, wheeee!" Your kind can eat a shotgun.
 
2012-10-05 09:55:16 PM  
Seems like every couple months there's someone else crying about the Boy Scouts being anti-gay. That's like complaining that the KKK is anti-black. It's a stupid argument. The boy scouts organization was founded specifically to keep kids busy so they wouldn't become "sexual deviants", which meant then what "gay" means now. If you don't like anti-gay groups, don't join one.

And don't eat corn flakes, they were invented to give kids boring, bland food so they wouldn't get all excited and turn gay.

/true story
//not anti-gay, 100% don't-care, just don't like people whining at something for being what it was designed to be
 
2012-10-05 10:16:45 PM  
Debeo Summa Credo: I honestly don't buy the $8m number that the anti-boy scout website threw out there.... Not going to get bent out of shape about costs of military personnel attending jamborees or implied free rent on governmental land. If the govt writes a check to BSA for $8m a year, you are right that I think it should stop.

Oh please. If we showed you a copy of the front and back of a cashed $8 million check from the U.S. government to the Boy Scouts with "Screw the Queers" written in the memo section, you'd be all "Not going to get bent out of shape about this until I see the original check and an itemized receipt for exactly what it paid for." And after we gave you that you'd quibble about individual line items.
 
2012-10-05 10:39:20 PM  

thoreau: Seems like every couple months there's someone else crying about the Boy Scouts being anti-gay. That's like complaining that the KKK is anti-black. It's a stupid argument. The boy scouts organization was founded specifically to keep kids busy so they wouldn't become "sexual deviants", which meant then what "gay" means now. If you don't like anti-gay groups, don't join one.

And don't eat corn flakes, they were invented to give kids boring, bland food so they wouldn't get all excited and turn gay.

/true story
//not anti-gay, 100% don't-care, just don't like people whining at something for being what it was designed to be


The corn flakes was to prevent masturbation, which was considered "Sexual deviancy" back then, along with women having sexual urges at all as well as simply having an erection at any time. Why aren't the BSA also against those?

/God says there are many things that are evil and worthy of being executed, why do Christians only focus on the most vague one of them?
 
2012-10-05 10:51:21 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: thoreau: Seems like every couple months there's someone else crying about the Boy Scouts being anti-gay. That's like complaining that the KKK is anti-black. It's a stupid argument. The boy scouts organization was founded specifically to keep kids busy so they wouldn't become "sexual deviants", which meant then what "gay" means now. If you don't like anti-gay groups, don't join one.

And don't eat corn flakes, they were invented to give kids boring, bland food so they wouldn't get all excited and turn gay.

/true story
//not anti-gay, 100% don't-care, just don't like people whining at something for being what it was designed to be

The corn flakes was to prevent masturbation, which was considered "Sexual deviancy" back then, along with women having sexual urges at all as well as simply having an erection at any time. Why aren't the BSA also against those?

/God says there are many things that are evil and worthy of being executed, why do Christians only focus on the most vague one of them?


Because the overwhelming majority of the population isn't gay, so it's very easy to say being gay is a "sin" without worrying about offending the people who fill your coffers. Churches can no longer take a hard line against things like divorce, masturbation, women having sexual autonomy, because that makes up most of their membership roles. Gay people, however, are still an acceptable target. Although, even that is fading, as more and more gay people come out and more and more straight people realize that at least one person they love is gay, and that person isn't the evil sexual deviant the church always said they were.
 
2012-10-05 11:15:34 PM  

timujin: I want everyone to know that [the Eagle award] should be based on accomplishment, not your sexual orientation.

Should be? What the fark does that have to do with it? The Scouts, while considered an "American institution" are a private group of homophobes who have spent the last forty years (at least) covering for child molesters. If that's the kind of organization you wish to have the highest honors in, go ahead, but it makes you look like an idiot for doing so once you're aware of who they really are..


So, it's a church?
 
2012-10-06 03:08:19 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Okay, so basically no significant support.


Wrong.

First of all, one cent is one cent too much.

But it's much more. The Department of Defense spends hundreds of thousands of tax dollars helping the Scouts run their Jamboree. A few years ago Congress ordered the minting of a coin marking the centennial of Scouting. Congress ordered that the coin be sold with a surcharge, and the surcharge be donated to the Scouts. The surcharge was $10 per coin and the Scouts made $3.5 million off the sale. Now, I realize that both of the cases I mention do not involve handing over a check to the Scouts, but Congress and the Department of Defense used their authority and Federal infrastructure to provide in kind and financial support - to the tune of $3.5 million - for the Scouts. And you dismiss that as "no significant support". I'd call $3.5 million significant. But I'm just a Godless homo.

And that's not even getting into the local schools, police and fire departments etc. that make their facilities available to Scouts free of charge.
 
2012-10-06 03:17:10 AM  

coolschool_dropout: He had completed the requirements and only had to keep quiet until he had it in his hands and it was "official".


I guess he decided having a badge that is supposed to represent (among other things) honesty was less important than actually living honestly.
 
2012-10-06 08:59:48 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy book and use it as a weapon and a reason to oppress, harass, and murder. Then you have the audacity to cry "OPPRESSION!!" when people stand up to your bullshiat. You don't follow anything about your precious god. You took his good and made it your evil. So take your holy horseshiat and shove it back up your festering asses.


They are free to go ahead and ban blacks, and brunettes, and non-midgets and anyone else they want to. Again, they are a private organization and are free to do so. The Supreme Court ruled that. Is it retarded? Of course it is. That is why so many members quit after that lawsuit (myself included). That is why so many civic organizations stopped supporting them.

As for claiming to follow a being of love and tolerance, I never made any such claim, either in this discussion or while a member of the BSA.

Also, which farking part of "I quit the Boy Scouts because of their discrimination policy" do you not understand? Let me try this again. I quit the Boy Scouts because of their discrimination policy. And while I support their right to teach the values they want to teach, I do not believe in that right. I is the same with the KKK or Neo Nazis or the Roman Catholic Church or any other similar group protected by the 1st Amendment. Just because I fully support their Constitutionally protected right to free speech does mean that I support or believe in the message they preach. So, yeah, I fully support the BSA on their right to throw this kid out, but only because of the 1st Amendment. I do not, however, support the rules that they used to determine he should be thrown out. Clear enough for you now?
 
2012-10-07 02:47:25 AM  

Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: The kid is gay and is a member of an organization that opposes homosexuality. What the Hades did he expect would happen if they found out? I do not condone the BSA's policy, but I do fully support their right to be a private organization. I only hope that they will some day change their stance on this because I would really like to put my uniform back on and become a Scout Master again.

/Not gay.

He joined before he was aware of what sexuality was, like a lot of Scouts. Why should he be punished for it? Why is being straight one of the requirements for a badge that tells everyone you're a cool person?

Once he figured out his sexuality then he should have quit. As for why he is being punished, well, quite frankly, he "broke the rules." Is that right? It really does not matter whether it is morally right or wrong. What matters is that it is "right" in regards to how the BSA is set up. Do not get me wrong, I am not condoning the BSA's anti-homosexual stance. As soon as they won their landmark Supreme Court lawsuit I quit, and I have not put on my uniform since then. But, as I said previously, they are a private organization and as such are allowed to set their own rules.

Then let's make being black against the rules. Let's make being a brunette against the rules. Over four feet tall? Against the rules. Ring finger as long as the middle finger? Against the rules. Sound retarded? Yep, just like making the particular demonized natural biological aspect being discussed "against the rules".

You farkers claim to follow a being of love and tolerance and piety, and in the same breath preach hatred and intolerance and arrogance. Your god tells you to love everyone as you love him and yourself, and you scream and screech about how evil and icky humanity is. God gives you the gift of life, and you squander it being complete farktards towards others. You take what you proclaim is his holy book and use it as a weapon and a reason to oppress, harass, and murder. Then you have the audacity to cry "OPPRESSION!!" when people stand up to your bullshiat. You don't follow anything about your precious god. You took his good and made it your evil. So take your holy horseshiat and shove it back up your festering asses.


They are free to go ahead and ban blacks, and brunettes, and non-midgets and anyone else they want to. Again, they are a private organization and are free to do so. The Supreme Court ruled that. Is it retarded? Of course it is. That is why so many members quit after that lawsuit (myself included). That is why so many civic organizations stopped supporting them.

As for claiming to follow a being of love and tolerance, I never made any such claim, either in this discussion or while a member of the BSA.

Also, which farking part of "I quit the Boy Scouts because of their discrimination policy" do you not understand? Let me try this again. I quit the Boy Scouts because of their discrimination policy. And while I support their right to teach the values they want to teach, I do not support their belief that homosexuality is a sin. I is the same with the KKK or Neo Nazis or the Roman Catholic Church or any other similar group protected by the 1st Amendment. Just because I fully support their Constitutionally protected right to free speech does mean that I support or believe in the message they preach. So, yeah, I fully support the BSA on their right to throw this kid out, but only because of the 1st Amendment. I do not, however, support the rules that they used to determine he should be thrown out. Clear enough for you now?

Fixed That For Myself.
 
2012-10-07 04:27:30 PM  

Mock26: They are free to go ahead and ban blacks, and brunettes, and non-midgets and anyone else they want to. Again, they are a private organization and are free to do so. The Supreme Court ruled that. Is it retarded? Of course it is. That is why so many members quit after that lawsuit (myself included). That is why so many civic organizations stopped supporting them.


Actually, the civil rights act of '64 said they cannot ban blacks or brunettes. Not sure about the non-midget part though.
 
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